00:00Now, to a debate that's been making headlines here in France, whether no
00:05child spaces or kid-free areas should be allowed.
00:08For more on this, Solange Moujean.
00:10Joins me here in the studio.
00:11And Solange, we're talking about this because of a decision by the...
00:15SNCF, the public rail service here that sparked this whole conversation.
00:19Yeah, it really...
00:20It was the spark.
00:21But before I get into the details of what happened with the SNCF, so now...
00:25...the announcement of the certain no-kid train cars, we need to keep in mind the bigger...
00:30...societal questions that this debate raises.
00:32Have we as a society in France and also...
00:35...elsewhere?
00:36Have we become less tolerant of children, less tolerant of noise?
00:39If so, what...
00:40What is driving that?
00:41What of children's presence in public spaces in our...
00:45cities, in our streets?
00:46What do parenting styles and culture as well have to do with...
00:50all of this?
00:51Is there a silencing of children in society?
00:54How...
00:55How are falling birth rates affecting the place of the child in society?
00:58Is France a kid-friendly...
01:00So, on the whole.
01:01So, all of those are the big questions.
01:03Now, to the details of what...
01:05brought this recurring debate to the fore, the SNCF, the French Rail Service...
01:10...they announced that as of January 8th, their newly named business class cars...
01:15...or optimum plus.
01:16They would not allow kids.
01:18Now, children are not...
01:20...accepted...
01:21...was what was originally written.
01:23Amidst the outrage, the terms were...
01:25changed to those under 12.
01:26And the SNCF went on a sort of PR damage control...
01:30...push, saying that there was...
01:32...there was already...
01:33...this was already the case in...
01:35...in previous business class cars...
01:37...that it only represents 8% of...
01:40...an entire train.
01:41The restrictions are only during the week and on certain routes...
01:44...where there are...
01:45...many business travelers.
01:46And it's also true that the SNCF, as competition is open...
01:50...signing up to other rail lines...
01:51...they are trying to draw those lucrative business travelers...
01:54...with the promise...
01:55...of calmer places to work.
01:57But nonetheless, the outrage was quite...
02:00...inmediate, be it on the political front...
02:02...from the front...
02:03...from the left and from the right...
02:04...people...
02:05...asking what kind of society are we building.
02:07A bill has actually been in the works...
02:10...that is being prepared to outlaw no-kid zones in public spaces...
02:14...because of discrimination...
02:15...reasons.
02:16And the French authority for defending children's rights...
02:18...the défenseur de l'enfant...
02:20...said...
02:21...it should...
02:22...be a wake-up call...
02:23...or, quote...
02:24...who to...
02:25...would dare ban any other category of adults...
02:29...or...
02:30...to replace...
02:31...if you replace kids...
02:32...with any other term...
02:33...say women...
02:34...race...
02:35...an economic...
02:35...level...
02:36...it then becomes quite shocking...
02:37...and many French people...
02:38...but not all...
02:39...they...
02:40...we agree with this.
02:43Three hours...
02:44...Paris Greno...
02:45...the children talked for the full three hours...
02:48...and I have to admit...
02:49...it was hard to read my book...
02:50...there was a baby behind me...
02:53...who was crying...
02:54...and it was annoying...
02:55...but I also understand...
02:57...you just put your earphones on...
03:00...it's no big deal...
03:01...I mean...
03:02...it's the train...
03:03...it's public space.
03:04...
03:05...I think it brings a bit of life...
03:07...and humanity into this world...
03:09...and you can't forget...
03:10...we were all children once...
03:14...so we've been talking about the...
03:15...trains at Solange...
03:16...but no kid options...
03:17...are also gaining traction...
03:19...in hotels...
03:20...restaurants...
03:21...yeah they are...
03:22...and they are likely to stick around...
03:23...in private spaces.
03:25...and for a second...
03:27...we actually have to put ourselves...
03:28...in the shoes of say...
03:29...exhausted...
03:30...the parents...
03:31...who paid a lot of money...
03:32...for a romantic weekend...
03:33...or the traveling executive...
03:35...that has an important presentation...
03:37...to wrap up...
03:38...and needs quiet.
03:39A lot of us...
03:40...internally you can say...
03:42...oh no...
03:43...when we get on planes...
03:44...and there's a screaming baby...
03:45...next to us.
03:45...so the instinct...
03:46...and the attraction...
03:47...it can be understandable...
03:48...especially in our...
03:50...in our societies...
03:51...where sans...
03:52...or free...
03:53...or without...
03:54...is often a driving commercial...
03:55...gluten-free...
03:56...alcohol-free...
03:57...fat-free...
03:58...so for many...
03:59...that jumped to...
04:00...or free...
04:01...is not that far...
04:02...but for a French senator...
04:03...who has put forth...
04:04...a bill to stop...
04:05...these...
04:06...kid-free zones...
04:07...and for rights advocates...
04:08...too...
04:09...it is a slippery...
04:10...to develop...
04:11...these...
04:12...no-kid...
04:13...zones.
04:14Do we want...
04:15...in a society...
04:16...where each person...
04:17...builds a wall...
04:18...around them...
04:19...to put at a distance...
04:20...everything that's different...
04:20...from them...
04:21...today...
04:22...these...
04:23...no-kids places...
04:24...puts forth the premise...
04:25...that...
04:25...children...
04:26...are a problem...
04:27...a society...
04:28...that no longer...
04:29...tolerates...
04:30...of...
04:31...is worrisome...
04:32...it's dying...
04:33...we cannot on one hand say...
04:34...people aren't having...
04:35...in...
04:35enough children and then try to exclude them from everywhere.
04:40And Solange, look, the timing of this whole debate is actually rather significant, isn't it?
04:43It is. January 21st.
04:452026 has been a moment where children and their place in French society has very much.
04:50It's been in the news.
04:50UNICEF has just released a report that says there's an invisible
04:55stabilization in France of thousands of children from government statistics on.
05:00Poverty, on homelessness, on nutrition.
05:02A social media ban for those under 15.
05:05Has just passed the National Assembly, the education minister.
05:08He wants an overseer on.
05:10Abuse in schools as well as lawmakers who want to create a fund for victims.
05:15Of violence, there's been discussion of the systemic silencing of children's.
05:20Because in France, only 2% of children who are sexually abused see
05:25their perpetrators found guilty.
05:27And then, on top of all of this, there are the demographies.
05:30For the first time since World War II, there were more deaths than births.
05:35In France, France, like many countries, has this shrinking population.
05:40So, there are fewer kids in public and in our daily lives.
05:45All right, Solange, well, help us answer then that big question.
05:49Is France a kid?
05:50Well, I would argue that it is in a lot of ways.
05:55There are subsidized creches.
05:57There are—school is for—
06:00All starting at the age of 3, there's help for bigger families and lots of playgrounds and—
06:05larger sort of kid-friendly urbanization projects and also new political—
06:10political measures to encourage people to have more children.
06:13These are common for France.
06:15France's economic and societal model, well, it is tied to this.
06:18France is not—
06:20Yet, where, say, South Korea is, there, there are hundreds of no-kid spaces.
06:25And 73 percent of Korean adults are in favor of those no-kid spaces.
06:30Nonetheless, these no-kid zones and these commercial offers that—
06:35they are sticking around and they are an opportune moment to question how we can—
06:40consider children and their place in our society.
06:42All right, really interesting.
06:43Thank you very much.
06:44Solange Mujan.
06:45First step.
06:46First step.
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