- 7 weeks ago
Stephen Wilson Jr. joins Katie Neal inside our Nashville studios at the Hard Rock Cafe to talk about the science of songwriting, his song, "Gary," and much more.
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00:00CMA New Artist of the Year Steven Wilson Jr. is here to hang out with us. How are you? How's your
00:052026 so far? I'm doing very good. Thank you for having me and talking.
00:10It's great to see you. Did you have like a nice little break for the holidays and the new year?
00:14I did, yeah.
00:15It was nice to kind of unplug from it all. I just got back from...
00:20Hawaii.
00:20Oh, where in Hawaii were you?
00:22I was in Maui. I got to play this show with my...
00:25friend Lucas Nelson and he put together this beautiful benefit there.
00:30I had Paul Simon.
00:31Oh my God.
00:32Mick Fleetwood and a bunch of...
00:35incredible artists there.
00:36That's amazing. I actually leave for Maui in a little less than a month.
00:40to do Maui Songwriters Festival and Lucas usually pops up at that.
00:43It's always a really fun thing.
00:45Yeah, local boy and yeah, he showed me the ropes and what a beautiful...
00:50island, you'll, you'll love it.
00:51Yeah, it's gorgeous. All right. So for anyone who is listening and maybe...
00:55hearing your name for like the first or second time, I want to talk a little bit about your backstory
00:59because it's...
01:00very interesting. Like you grew up boxing, did this into adulthood, went to college for microbiology.
01:05worked at Mars for a while and then now in 2026 you are in the middle of...
01:10this like very fast-rising country music career. And so I feel like has anyone...
01:14like have you talked to someone about like...
01:15like the rights to your life in a movie yet because I feel like you should be thinking about it.
01:20I thought you were gonna ask me, have you talked to a therapist?
01:23Well that too, but...
01:25No, yeah, it's... there's been a lot of chapters.
01:30So far.
01:31But I think that that adds to like the music that you write.
01:35And also just being like an incredibly well-rounded and interesting human being.
01:39No.
01:40Well, thank you.
01:41I don't think I'm interesting, but it has provided a...
01:45I guess...
01:45I guess a wealth of dialogue and narrative to pull from.
01:49I've been...
01:50habitually...
01:51uh...
01:52quiet...
01:53most of my life.
01:54So, uh...
01:55I got to work a lot of jobs and kind of keep my mouth shut and listen.
01:59And...
02:00take notes.
02:01And...
02:02uh...
02:03from those learnings...
02:04that's where the...
02:05songs kind of came from.
02:06Yeah.
02:07Or just the...
02:08the craft.
02:09Um...
02:10So...
02:10I...
02:11I was never talkative for a long time.
02:13But...
02:14the listening part is...
02:15crucial...
02:16in songwriting.
02:17I'm...
02:18kind of think of myself more as a stenographer.
02:20Mm-hmm.
02:21Than a songwriter.
02:22Um...
02:23And that's kind of what scientists really are.
02:25They're...
02:26just keeping track of what's happening.
02:27They're...
02:28they're record keepers.
02:29And...
02:30um...
02:31some are better at it than others.
02:32And...
02:33but yeah...
02:34so...
02:35I was...
02:36you know...
02:37it's a bit of science and a bit of stenography at the same time.
02:39And...
02:40I've been...
02:40kind of quiet researcher.
02:41Just kind of a fly on the wall.
02:43Like...
02:44who's the weird...
02:45weird kiddo.
02:45over there that doesn't talk but...
02:47is jotting something down.
02:48Yeah...
02:49you've been keeping a record.
02:50Yeah...
02:51of all of it.
02:52It's interesting that you say that because one of the things I wanted to ask you is like
02:53from your time...
02:54in boxing...
02:55in boxing...
02:56and being a scientist...
02:57like what do you feel like...
02:58now...
02:59like bleeds through...
03:00where you apply...
03:01in your life...
03:02as a country artist?
03:03Well...
03:04I think they're all...
03:05um...
03:06they're all parts of the quilt...
03:08and...
03:09um...
03:10they're all...
03:10like very significant patches...
03:12of that quilt...
03:13um...
03:14and...
03:15you know...
03:16I...
03:17I think they're all very important...
03:18they...
03:19I...
03:20I wouldn't say one is...
03:20um...
03:21more of a priority than the other...
03:23um...
03:24I use them all...
03:25like...
03:26science is a big part of...
03:27my process...
03:28um...
03:29you know that...
03:30you know...
03:31collecting...
03:32you know...
03:33having a...
03:34hypothesis...
03:35or an idea...
03:35and then testing it against...
03:37the world...
03:38is pretty much what science is...
03:40but doing it in a...
03:41a controlled setting...
03:43and...
03:44doing that experiment...
03:45over and over again...
03:46and trying to keep your emotions...
03:48out of the results...
03:50and that's...
03:51I think what songwriters...
03:52try to do at the end...
03:54you know...
03:55because you...
03:56you want to have an emotion...
03:57to start with...
03:58because...
03:59I'm more in the...
04:00emotion business...
04:01than I am in the music business...
04:03and...
04:04at least...
04:05that's what I think...
04:05of it as...
04:06um...
04:07so...
04:08it's got to start...
04:09with an emotion...
04:10but then you...
04:11kind of...
04:12got to separate...
04:10your emotion from it...
04:11to get to the truth...
04:12because...
04:13then you'll have...
04:14they...
04:15what you call...
04:16user bias...
04:17and then that'll affect...
04:18your results...
04:19so...
04:20science is a big part...
04:20of it...
04:21but...
04:22being a trained scientist...
04:23has helped me...
04:24kind of...
04:25remove my...
04:25emotion...
04:26from it...
04:27but then...
04:28the creative side...
04:29of me...
04:30just all...
04:31the wealth of experiences...
04:32and emotions...
04:33that I've went through...
04:34has given me...
04:35a lot to authenticate...
04:37an idea from...
04:38because it has to...
04:39kind of start...
04:40with my own emotion...
04:42because if I've felt something...
04:43most likely...
04:44somebody else has...
04:45yeah...
04:45it's such a...
04:46what a beautiful analogy...
04:47to think about...
04:48songwriting...
04:49and science...
04:50and all of the...
04:50parallels...
04:51and...
04:52that leads me...
04:53to your first single...
04:54to Country Radio...
04:55Gary...
04:55like thinking of that...
04:56as an experiment...
04:57to send out to the world...
04:58what do you feel like...
04:59the results from it...
05:00have been...
05:00like so far...
05:01and the feedback...
05:02that you've gotten...
05:03from people...
05:04well...
05:05I tested that one...
05:06a lot...
05:05a lot of laboratories...
05:07um...
05:08everywhere from...
05:10eight to ten...
05:11participant laboratories...
05:12to...
05:13thousands of...
05:14participant laboratories...
05:15and...
05:16you know...
05:17you get more...
05:18the greater...
05:19you know...
05:20number of participants...
05:20you have...
05:21the...
05:22the more valid...
05:23your results are...
05:24generally speaking...
05:25that's just...
05:25how statistics work...
05:26um...
05:27but...
05:28I...
05:28I would get...
05:29results...
05:30consistently...
05:31with that song...
05:32because that one was...
05:33really...
05:34I had to be...
05:35real careful about...
05:35that...
05:36because...
05:37Gary is more...
05:38of a metaphor...
05:39um...
05:40Gary...
05:40a stereotype...
05:41yes...
05:42I love...
05:43all the Gary puns...
05:44that have come...
05:45from the song...
05:46Gary...
05:45Gary...
05:46sorry...
05:47it will continue...
05:48um...
05:49but...
05:50yeah...
05:50I had to start...
05:51you know...
05:52with...
05:53a metaphor...
05:54you know...
05:55that...
05:55that everybody...
05:56could relate to...
05:57because...
05:58you know...
05:59you don't really know...
06:00and...
06:01because I...
06:02I had...
06:00this experience...
06:01with the Gary's...
06:02like...
06:03I started to...
06:04basically...
06:05you know...
06:05think of Gary...
06:07as a subspecies...
06:08a human...
06:09like another...
06:10like a...
06:10like...
06:11like a Gary...
06:12as an organism...
06:13not so much...
06:14just a name...
06:15for a person...
06:16because...
06:17it...
06:18it was...
06:19to me...
06:20more of a stereotype...
06:20or a Gary...
06:21so to speak...
06:22and...
06:23um...
06:24so...
06:25if...
06:25you could classify...
06:26that organism...
06:27how would you do that...
06:28and...
06:29that's...
06:30that's how I...
06:30approach...
06:31Gary...
06:32is almost like...
06:33kind of like...
06:34how Jane Goodall...
06:35would approach...
06:35a chimpanzee...
06:36or something...
06:37kind of like...
06:38studying the Gary's...
06:39in the wild...
06:40because...
06:40you know...
06:41the Gary's...
06:42are going extinct...
06:43and we tend like...
06:44you know...
06:45if you watch...
06:46Nat Geo...
06:47they tend to...
06:48really...
06:49hyper-focus on...
06:50animals...
06:51that are rare...
06:52not the ones...
06:53that you see...
06:54all the time...
06:55they're...
06:55they really go out...
06:56and look for the...
06:57the endangered species...
06:59or the...
07:00almost extinct one...
07:02and it feels like...
07:03Gary is like...
07:04an endangered...
07:05or almost extinct...
07:05character...
07:06organism...
07:07whatever you want...
07:08to look at it...
07:09I think we could...
07:10classify them...
07:10endangered...
07:11for sure...
07:12and where I come from...
07:13the Gary's...
07:14are very important...
07:15Gary...
07:15and...
07:16they...
07:17you know...
07:18every Gary I know...
07:19just...
07:20knows...
07:20how to fix something...
07:21it's just...
07:22they're just...
07:23kind of...
07:24born with this...
07:25kind of...
07:26natural...
07:25mechanical...
07:27inclination...
07:28so to speak...
07:29in...
07:30so I went around...
07:31the world...
07:32and...
07:33and basically...
07:34had this...
07:35hypothesis...
07:35hypothesis...
07:36about the Gary's...
07:37and...
07:38in every laboratory...
07:39I'd have this...
07:40somewhat...
07:40come up...
07:41like...
07:42you're...
07:43I know exactly...
07:44who you're talking about...
07:45like...
07:46his name is Gary...
07:45or...
07:46he's my uncle...
07:47this is his picture...
07:48or...
07:49he's...
07:50he's no longer with us...
07:51and you're right...
07:50they're...
07:51you know...
07:52if... you know...
07:53if you can show me...
07:54like a 10 year old Gary...
07:55like that's...
07:55the challenge...
07:56I give to the audience...
07:57like...
07:58present him...
07:59to me...
08:00and...
08:00we will bubble wrap him...
08:01exactly...
08:02we'll protect him...
08:03we're like...
08:04somebody start raising...
08:05another generation...
08:05of Gary's...
08:06I think...
08:07is also like...
08:08the message...
08:09that you want to send...
08:10to people...
08:10you're gonna need him...
08:11it's...
08:12it's really important...
08:13because like...
08:14technology...
08:15and everything is cool...
08:15but...
08:16when your septic tank...
08:17blows...
08:18I mean...
08:19there's...
08:20your iPhone...
08:20you're gonna do nothing...
08:21no...
08:22exactly...
08:23you mean...
08:24Gary...
08:25in your life...
08:26or like...
08:27where did the...
08:28how did like...
08:29the name...
08:30come together...
08:30the four...
08:31that you were...
08:32like...
08:33putting together...
08:34well...
08:35I do...
08:36I come from...
08:37a long line...
08:38of Gary's...
08:39whether they were...
08:40named Gary...
08:41or not...
08:42and so...
08:43I kind of...
08:44I...
08:44began to look at it...
08:45as a metaphor...
08:46like...
08:47a...
08:48comparison tool...
08:49and...
08:51really...
08:52how it was inspired...
08:53initially...
08:54as I was driving...
08:56down the highway...
08:57and...
08:58I wrote a lot...
08:59of songs...
09:00in the car...
09:01like...
09:02I write all my lyrics...
09:03first...
09:04generally speaking...
09:04mm-hmm...
09:05um...
09:06and then I put it...
09:07the music later...
09:08not always...
09:09but...
09:10most of the time...
09:11and...
09:12um...
09:13I was driving...
09:14and I saw this billboard...
09:15on the side of the highway...
09:16and...
09:17it was a memorial billboard...
09:19it was really sad...
09:20and the song is sad...
09:21by the way...
09:22mm-hmm...
09:23Gary dies...
09:24and...
09:24but it was a...
09:25a billboard...
09:26of...
09:27of a...
09:28a young man...
09:29named Gary...
09:29and I won't...
09:30for privacy purposes...
09:31I won't say his full name...
09:33but it's...
09:34said Gary...
09:35in...
09:36in memory of Gary...
09:37blank blank...
09:38and...
09:39and it had a picture...
09:40of a boy...
09:41that couldn't have been...
09:42maybe 16 years old...
09:43mm-hmm...
09:44and it was heartbreaking...
09:44and I...
09:45I would just assume...
09:46that maybe he passed away...
09:47on that highway...
09:48perhaps in a car...
09:49Yeah...
09:49accident...
09:50or something...
09:51and...
09:52it was just tragic...
09:53you know...
09:54and they made this memorial...
09:55for him...
09:54on the side of the highway...
09:55and...
09:56um...
09:57you know...
09:58there were trees growing...
09:59all around it...
09:59and...
10:00and...
10:01you know...
10:02the fact that there is a young...
10:03young man there...
10:04with...
10:04the name Gary...
10:05like...
10:06he couldn't have...
10:07he had to have gone...
10:08to maybe East Hickman High School...
10:09or something...
10:09like that...
10:10or...
10:11um...
10:12and...
10:13and I just said...
10:14instantly out loud...
10:15and...
10:16there ain't a lot of boys...
10:17named Gary...
10:18these days...
10:19mm-hmm...
10:19and then I just got my phone out...
10:21and I just...
10:22the chorus just kind of...
10:23wrote itself...
10:24and Debbie...
10:25kind of showed up...
10:26and...
10:27it was a real subconscious...
10:28kind of...
10:29expression of...
10:30the idea...
10:31because...
10:32you know...
10:33I...
10:34I started thinking...
10:34of it as that...
10:35and...
10:36and...
10:37the heartbreak that...
10:38came from...
10:39seeing that sign...
10:39and the pain...
10:40that had to have...
10:41come from it...
10:42was like...
10:43the catalyst...
10:44for the whole idea...
10:45like...
10:46yeah...
10:47every chemical reaction...
10:48needs that catalyst...
10:49and I think...
10:50that's what that was...
10:51and it just kind of...
10:52it unraveled itself...
10:53in the car...
10:54and then...
10:55I...
10:56I went home...
10:57and put it to music...
10:58like...
10:59I had this kind of...
10:59looping guitar part...
11:00that just...
11:01seemed to make sense...
11:02because...
11:03Gary seemed like...
11:04a bit of a hustler...
11:04and...
11:05so...
11:06I...
11:07I played it really fast...
11:08and...
11:09and...
11:09and...
11:10then...
11:11just...
11:12I just...
11:13I just spat that lyric out...
11:14and...
11:15that's how the song...
11:16that's so beautiful...
11:17and there's something like...
11:18really almost like...
11:19divine...
11:19about...
11:20the timing of...
11:21like...
11:21you seeing that...
11:22and that song coming through...
11:23have you...
11:24like...
11:24like...
11:25does the family...
11:26know at all...
11:27that...
11:28that their Gary...
11:29was kind of like...
11:29the catalyst for that moment...
11:30um...
11:31no...
11:32no...
11:33they...
11:34they might know now...
11:35yeah...
11:34but...
11:35but yeah...
11:36um...
11:37no...
11:38I...
11:39you know...
11:39out of...
11:40just respect for them...
11:41yeah...
11:42I've...
11:43tried to...
11:44keep that private...
11:45but...
11:44I would...
11:45love to talk to them...
11:46about how...
11:47their boy...
11:48inspired this song...
11:49and how...
11:49and...
11:50you know...
11:51he inspired...
11:52so many people...
11:53around the world...
11:54and...
11:54um...
11:55I've had so many messages...
11:56from so many people...
11:57that...
11:58either knew...
11:59again...
11:59a Gary...
12:00or...
12:01are...
12:02a Gary...
12:03yeah...
12:04and like...
12:05are feeling...
12:06seen...
12:07for the...
12:08for...
12:09for...
12:10for the most part...
12:11been forgotten...
12:12and I think they...
12:13kind of...
12:13conceded...
12:14to that...
12:15you know...
12:16to their own demise...
12:17a long time ago...
12:18so...
12:19to see this...
12:20um...
12:21I don't know...
12:22this...
12:23expression of love...
12:23I think...
12:24they really feel it...
12:25and so do...
12:26so do other people...
12:27and...
12:28I think...
12:28technology is moving...
12:29very fast...
12:30and it can be...
12:31quite scary...
12:32and...
12:33this...
12:34you know...
12:33isn't an...
12:34anti-technology song...
12:35it's just a...
12:36pro-human song...
12:37yeah...
12:38so...
12:38that's really...
12:38I was thinking about it...
12:39I was like...
12:40I feel like you should do...
12:41like a Gary meetup...
12:42like you know...
12:43you'll see like...
12:44a meetup of Ryan's...
12:45and they'll be like...
12:43200 Ryans in a bar...
12:44like I feel like...
12:45you need to do like...
12:46a meetup of Gary's...
12:47and then you do a private show...
12:48like a bar or something...
12:49for Gary's...
12:50like that would be...
12:51that could be really fun...
12:52yeah...
12:53a video on Christmas...
12:54or something...
12:55a Gary Christmas...
12:56a Gary Christmas...
12:57there you go...
12:58but I...
12:58I wanted to tell you...
12:59like how...
13:00I know that everyone shares...
13:01their story with you...
13:02about this song...
13:03but like...
13:03Bob...
13:03but he's very much a Gary...
13:05yeah...
13:06carpenter by trade...
13:07but was also like...
13:08the electrician...
13:09and the plumber...
13:10and the mechanic...
13:11growing up...
13:12like it was...
13:13it's still so hard...
13:13for me when something...
13:14breaks in my own house...
13:15to be like...
13:16oh I have to call...
13:17somebody for that...
13:18like I usually try to fix things first...
13:20because that's how we grew up...
13:21it was very rare that my dad...
13:22can't...
13:23fix whatever...
13:24is broken...
13:25and so...
13:26and I do...
13:27I think all the time...
13:28I'm like...
13:28I just don't...
13:29I don't really know...
13:30any men...
13:31in 2026...
13:32who are like my dad...
13:33yeah...
13:33truly...
13:34a dying breed...
13:35like whenever I see a guy...
13:36who's like handy...
13:37or something...
13:38I'm like...
13:39that's so special...
13:38yeah...
13:39I know...
13:40they're a rarity...
13:41and...
13:42a garrity...
13:43there you go...
13:44but yeah...
13:45you know...
13:46it's...
13:47it's really...
13:48really important...
13:49that we recognize that...
13:50I think...
13:51because...
13:52you know...
13:53houses are still being built...
13:54and...
13:55electricity...
13:56is still being wired...
13:58and...
13:59concrete...
14:00still being poured...
14:01alternators...
14:02are still being changed...
14:03as much as...
14:04like...
14:05we don't really see...
14:06those moving parts...
14:07yeah...
14:08and...
14:09there's a lot of...
14:10really important humans...
14:11that are really important...
14:12to those moving parts...
14:13absolutely...
14:14I think we celebrate...
14:15a lot of people...
14:16in society...
14:17and...
14:17I'm not sure...
14:18all of them...
14:19deserve...
14:20celebrating...
14:21how about...
14:22we celebrate...
14:23some...
14:23that...
14:24really deserve it...
14:25and...
14:26really have earned it...
14:27and...
14:28literally have the...
14:28the calluses...
14:29on their hands...
14:30to prove it...
14:31yeah...
14:32it's really special...
14:33you were going out...
14:33Gary the torch...
14:34Gary the torch...
14:35tour...
14:36this spring...
14:37talk about...
14:38what you are most...
14:39looking forward to...
14:40for this...
14:41because you're kind of...
14:42like zigzagging...
14:43all across America...
14:43well...
14:45just...
14:46connecting...
14:47with other...
14:48humans...
14:48that's...
14:49a big part...
14:50of the whole experience...
14:51our...
14:52our...
14:53age demographic...
14:54is like...
14:537...
14:54to 77...
14:55and...
14:56it's special...
14:57so...
14:58it brings in...
14:58humans...
14:59of all ages...
15:00in all...
15:01all parts...
15:02of the world...
15:03and...
15:03so really...
15:04just...
15:05kind of...
15:06getting back...
15:07in the room...
15:08with them...
15:08and having...
15:09that experience...
15:10together...
15:11because this really...
15:12has nothing...
15:13to do...
15:14with...
15:15as...
15:16...
15:13everything to do with us and i think everybody recognizes that in the moment so
15:18getting back to that and so you know gary the torch is you know
15:23you know that's obviously a pun but you know i'm trying to
15:28keep that torch going you know because i think people need a light right now
15:33um and if those shows can be even a flicker or a spark
15:38i'll do my part yeah that's incredible i really i think it's so special i can't wait to come
15:43see the tour i love what you're doing i'm really curious just like knowing all these interesting
15:47things about you and like your message and everything like what are you doing in your
15:50downtime like when you're like hanging
15:52out like what are your hobbies like what when you're not working on music what are you doing
15:56i like to fish
15:57fish um i like to look at trees yeah yeah
16:02i like to be in the woods um and um maybe
16:07doodle draw a little bit um when you draw what are you drawing are you drawing
16:12like you know people places whatever i see
16:17uh-huh yeah um yeah it's just usually whatever comes to mind i don't think
16:22about it that's kind of the whole point of it i do a lot of thinking so i try to do non
16:27thinking um you know um
16:32play with our dogs um what kind of dogs do you have i got a belgium malinois
16:37and a another dog that's half german shepherd and like
16:42quarter pit bull one quarter husky oh my gosh i found her in the river
16:47river she was like six months old she came running out of the river she was dumped and almost ran over
16:52her and she was in real bad shape she had been like running from coyotes you could tell for a day
16:57she was exhausted and pretty much feral and like a wild animal
17:02so i i had a lot of empathy for that and uh
17:07i've dealt with a lot of feral people in my life so uh
17:12maybe i am a little bit myself so yeah it took me a couple hours to get
17:17her in my car and um but she's been ours ever since oh and then we
17:22just rescued this belgium malinois about 11 months ago and she's been going on the road
17:27with us and she's been on stage with me a couple times and that's i think that having a road
17:32dog is such a good thing for artists because like i know i think brett eldridge used to talk
17:37about how he would come off stage and then you have this like incredible high and it's like so great
17:41to have a
17:42companion like a dog to greet you when you get out of that situation yeah it really is
17:47it's so grounding um because they don't give a damn about your
17:52career oh they definitely don't they don't care about your music they don't care about
17:57that line and that song you know they
18:02they really you know they're just there for for you so it's a it's a great reminder
18:07every time of you know where to be and it's just there because that's where they are
18:12absolutely you know i i love them for that and um
18:17you
18:17you know i have this you know particular strong connection to
18:22you
18:22like coyotes and wolves and and and dogs are you know based
18:27you
18:27basically members of those families are you know um
18:32you
18:34you
18:36you
18:38you
18:40you
18:42you
18:44you
18:46you
18:48you
18:50you
18:52you
18:54you
19:19you
19:21you
19:23you
19:50you
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