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The 77 Percent - State of Democracy In Nigeria and Africa
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00:00Gunmen have kidnapped 25 people and killed a senior teacher at a girls school in northwestern
00:11Nigeria. Police deployed to the scene in Kebi state after the attackers had already left.
00:18Northern Nigeria has seen a series of similar abductions. The kidnapping of 276 schoolgirls
00:24a decade ago caused international outrage. The heavily armed criminal gangs known as bandits
00:30also raid villages, steal cattle, and carry out kidnappings and killings.
00:37The thought of being in your school dormitory when suddenly armed men storm the building and
00:42capture you, I find that so terrifying. When people can't feel safe in their own country,
00:48it's not just bad for every individual, but also for that country's political climate as a whole.
00:53And that is why on this episode of The 77%, we want to take a closer look at the state of
00:59democracy in Nigeria and the entire African continent. I'm your host, Liz Cho.
01:09Coming up on the show. In Nigeria, we take a closer look into opinions on U.S. President
01:16Donald Trump's threats of military action in the country. We then ask why aging African leaders
01:23continue to cling to power in a continent full of young people. And in Senegal, we look at how
01:30youth activists are fighting to hold their democracy accountable in a largely under-20 population.
01:38We'll kick off today's show in the U.S. where President Donald Trump threatened a military
01:42intervention in Nigeria, claiming Christians are being persecuted. While it's true that in some areas,
01:49churches have been attacked, we have to point out that the majority of those affected by violence
01:54in northern Nigeria are Muslims. And some are wondering whether the real reason for Trump's
02:00threats is because of how Nigeria is taking charge of its own resources. For example, by refining oil
02:07instead of re-importing from the U.S. and by signing a lithium deal with China instead of U.S. carmaker Tesla.
02:14But we also know that many young Nigerians are unhappy with the way the country is run. And so we asked them,
02:21how strong is democracy in Nigeria?
02:24We don't practice democracy as it should be perfectly. We are just like in the middle.
02:29When it comes to some certain things, they are compromising here and there.
02:32And we're not really free. It's not free and fair like that, as it should be.
02:35It's the essence of what democracy means, no. Because obviously now we can see it. Snatching
02:42ballot papers, stuff like that. That's not what a democratic nation looks like.
02:47I think in a democratic country, the government should be able to listen to the needs of the
02:53people and then be able to work on it. But I think right now in Nigeria, there are too many cries
02:57from the people and then the government are not really acting upon it. So I don't really think
03:02we're doing so well as a democratic country in Nigeria. It's meant to be, but I don't think
03:06Nigeria is a democratic society. That's because I would make use of the last presidential election.
03:12I don't think the present president was being elected by the people. I think the person who they
03:20wanted was not who is on seat currently. Very little optimism there. Well, back to
03:26Donald Trump and his controversial statement, we sent Suleiman Kolo to ask young Nigerians whether
03:32the U.S. military should intervene in Nigeria or not. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the 77%
03:38Street Debate. My name is Suleiman Kolo, and today we're tackling a very hot topic with the current
03:43insecurity and ongoing tension in the northern part of Nigeria. Today we're asking, should the U.S.
03:48intervene militarily in the northern part of Nigeria? Some people believe this is a good idea. Others think
03:52is complete madness, but today I've got four amazing guests who are going to do this with me. So
03:57without no further ado, let's get straight into it. What's up, everybody? Good evening. How you all
04:05doing? Nice. So today we're running a quick and easy street debate and we're asking should the U.S.
04:12intervene militarily in northern Nigeria? I believe this side are against and this side are for. Am I right?
04:19We are for and you are against. All right, ladies and gentlemen, let the debate begin. So I'm going
04:24to start with you right now. Should the U.S. intervene militarily in northern Nigeria? I stand before you
04:30today to say loud and clear no to that simply because U.S. military intervention in northern part
04:36of Nigeria is not a welcome help and it is a complete madness. One of the reasons is because, let's start from
04:42where the entire issue started, right? The issue between the farmers and the elders happening in the
04:49north. This issue is as a result of land disputes and water disputes and, you know, undermining this
04:56kind of issue into something that is, you know, religious based is dangerous and very misleading.
05:04Okay, okay, okay. Do you agree with what she just said? Trump hasn't, he hasn't got any record of going
05:12into any country and leaving it in a mess. Let's hold him to his words. The intervention in Nigeria is going
05:19to focus on the terrorists who endangering the lives and properties of Christians in the northern part of
05:26the country and the oppression is going to be fast and quick and sweet as well. Do you have your point?
05:32Yes, I do. I do. So, I like the fact that you mentioned that it's going to be quick and sweet, right?
05:40Now, the question I would ask is how? Because what Trump promised is military troops, if I'm correct.
05:47And when we mention military troops, we all know what it comes with. More bombs, more shooting, more
05:52countries being destroyed. And are you trying to tell me that this will not even lead to
05:57fueling more terrorist groups and more, you know, killing people?
06:01What's really at stake for Nigerians right now? Our security, our sovereignty or something more?
06:07So, what Nigerians actually need right now is our security. Yeah, because that's the most important
06:13thing so that we can sleep at night peacefully and wake up the next day.
06:16Yeah, the government, they are actually not doing a great job. Apart from the military rule,
06:21the democratic rule of Nigeria has been so bad. We just don't have, democracy is not something
06:28that works in Nigeria. Let's be honest. We don't have this, are we even really doing democracy?
06:33Should we start from our elections? I get you. So now, okay.
06:39I mean, the major accusation from the U.S. is that the so-called genocide or terrorism in Nigeria
06:49is sponsored by government actors, you understand? The so-called political elite.
06:55So, and that being the case, that is in fact why I think that a U.S. military intervention is not
07:02only a matter of necessity, but also a matter of urgency, because we cannot count on the same
07:07government to be the solution to our current problems if they are perceived to be the enemies
07:13of the state. What matters most is the life of the average Nigerian, you understand? And if the
07:19government is not providing that security for the average Nigerian, then a military intervention by a
07:25foreign power is most welcome. I totally agree with him. Okay. Right. But what you actually need
07:32right now is the military intervention, because you cannot keep like being silent and dying silent,
07:38whereas we are thinking that everything is fine and nothing is moving well.
07:44U.S. don't help anybody for free. There is definitely an interest of either domination or
07:50taking over. And also, I also think that the fact that... Okay, sorry, he's asking,
07:55so let's hear from him quickly. So I think most of the fear of most Nigerian, the fear of domination,
08:00thinking that when they arrive that they're going to take over like the natural resources or which even
08:06though they don't like take, that is already behind like taking over by most of our government
08:11because we don't have access to that. But then coming in, there might be a tactic where we have
08:15like access to our own natural resources, but they are definitely going to take away all the insurgents
08:21and everybody, bad government, because that is the most important thing. While we're saying that Nigeria
08:26helping Nigeria, we have been hearing it for so long. So you prefer that they just come help us,
08:31and even if they are going to take the resources, they should take it. They're not going to take the resources,
08:35because that's the fear of most Nigerian, the fear of domination.
08:37Okay, okay, I think...
08:38I think...
08:39All right, sorry, let's hear from her first.
08:42The U.S. intervention, they've never left the country they intervened in peace. They are still
08:50always suffering, and we Nigerians are already suffering enough. We are forgetting that innocent
08:57people are also in these places. You can't, you can't tell me that, oh, they are coming here,
09:03they know the people they are coming to fight.
09:06Okay, let's go back to him. Let me hear from you.
09:09The summary of the whole thing is that we have a problem, and the solution is not going to come
09:16internally. You understand? Because the same people are the ones who are accused to be the
09:22enemies of the state, the sponsors of terrorism, the same elements in government, you understand,
09:27and even our military. Yes, now that you mentioned, why do you think so?
09:33So, me, now, I think we are enablers of our governments.
09:40We Nigerians, we enable our governments a lot, a lot. So, before all this, people have been tweeting,
09:49complaining, saying this on X, and, oh, this and this is happening, this and this is happening.
09:56Our government don't take us seriously, and we also don't take our government seriously. So,
10:00let's be honest with ourselves. We are bad people. Our governments are also bad people.
10:04Because these people are coming from us. If we are still having the same people, I'm not voting for
10:10anybody.
10:10Oh, that's right.
10:12Still on her point, you have something to say?
10:14Yeah.
10:15So, that is the main political apartheid. Because you don't have interest in politics. So,
10:20that's the main, like, the main issues of Nigeria. Because you don't have, you don't believe in your
10:24government.
10:25No, no, no, no. Don't, I don't say that. I don't say that. Don't tell me.
10:29Do you have interest in politics?
10:30I have interest in politics. And let me tell you, I'm not saying that, oh, I don't have interest in
10:35politics. That's why I'm not voting for these people. I don't have, I believe that there is nothing
10:41these people are offering. They are all birds of the same feathers. They have all ruled. They've
10:47all governed.
10:48So, now he's saying an external influence will be important. So, what is your own solution right
10:54now? Your own?
10:54Our own, my own solution is let us, the youth, stand up ourselves.
11:00How?
11:00We need to find a way. I don't know how we are going to do it. I don't know the answers.
11:06So many people, celebrities, notable figures came out to actually protest against the department of
11:11the police force who have, unfortunately, aggrandized more powers to themselves and
11:17started intimidating the poor civilians. You know, when that happened, they hosted a very
11:23massive protest. What was the outcome of that?
11:27Sorry. So, speaking about the answers, you just said, okay, we can try and come out ourselves and
11:32try to make it work for ourselves. Well, he gave an example with the answers. It didn't work. So,
11:37what other solution would you prefer?
11:39Okay. So, answers didn't work, but I believe we can try again and try again and try again.
11:45Because U.S., you see, they did not just get there in a day. It was continuous buildup. And I think if we
11:51allow U.S. to take over, like, to come and control us and the way we, because they don't understand the
11:58issues that we have. There's the issue of corruption. Why don't we put measures in place that everybody's
12:04being dealt with, regardless of your position?
12:05Sorry, let me cut you a bit. Do you agree that we should try and try and try? I don't think so,
12:11because we have been trying. So, how long? But we just tried with answers. There's no,
12:16there's no results. This is really heated. But right now, let's hear the final solution. The
12:22final, final one. Last one. Are you? Yes. At this point, it's not, it's in the interest of all to
12:28at least allow a foreign intervention. Let us even see what is going to happen. Lastly, I refuse to
12:34believe that sovereignty is dead. This is a matter of national pride and principle. And allowing U.S.
12:39military to working on us is like declaring publicly that we cannot govern ourselves. So,
12:44what then will happen to our independence? So, I believe that Nigerian youths, again,
12:49not just the youths, everybody, we need that cooperation. We need to shun corruption. We need
12:55to shun nepotism, tribalism. Let people be dealt with, regardless of their rank or their titles or the
13:02kind of family they come from. And then, there are a lot of things. The list goes on. There's also the issue of
13:06unemployment. Create small jobs. Let's empower rural development. Invest in agriculture. And
13:12hopefully, we'll have a better Nigeria. Wow. What a debate. As you can see, I'm sweating. But,
13:20as you can see, split opinions. The conversation is endless. But one thing is clear. Young Africans are
13:27not giving up. Nigerians, to be precise. We are not giving up. We are not staying silent. Until I come your
13:32win next time, I still remain your boy, Suleiman Kulu. Peace out. See ya.
13:39Thank you so much, Suleiman, for that fantastic street debate. Now, we've seen young people across
13:45Africa taking to the streets to oppose leaders they say are not holding up democratic values. And we know
13:51that for democracy to work, we also need politicians who know when it's time to go. So, here at the 77%,
13:57we ask ourselves, does the age of our leaders determine the quality of our democracies?
14:04My colleague, Rachel Dwati, has some answers. Young men blocking roads. Thousands of people have
14:10turned out to the rallies. More respondents. Corruption as a problem. Does the age of leaders
14:16affect democracy? And are older leaders holding tighter to power? Let's start with Cameroon.
14:24After the recent election results were announced, opposition supporters took to the streets and
14:30protests erupted in several cities. Many young people accused authorities of rigging the vote.
14:37They were protesting the re-election of one man, Paul Beer. He's been Cameroon's president for over 40 years.
14:45But why would a 92-year-old man still want to rule this young nation whose average age is just 18?
14:54For many young Cameroonians, it's hard to feel represented by a leader nearly five times their age.
15:01Then there's court divorce. Alassane Wattara has led the country since 2010 and is now 83.
15:09He recently secured a fourth term. But in the months before the election, thousands protested in
15:16Abidjan against his bid to run again. Two opponents were barred from running. And only half of the
15:23registered voters went to the polls. And last is Tanzania's Samir Surlubu. Her party, Chama Chama Pinduzi,
15:32has ruled since Tanzania got independence in 1961. Her recent election was marred by arrests,
15:40intimidation and violence with over 1000 estimated deaths. So we've answered the first question.
15:49Now for the second. Is holding onto power really about age or more about a system where a leader
15:56operates in Jakaya Kikwete in Tanzania, Uhuru Kenyatta in Kenya, and Good Luck Jonathan in Nigeria
16:05all stepped down peacefully, ensuring smooth transitions. Kikwete was 64, Kenyatta was 60,
16:13and Jonathan 57. So when older leaders hold onto power, it can clash with the hopes of younger
16:21generations. Some block change while others step down peacefully. But what do you think?
16:31Speaking of politicians and their age, did you know that Zimbabwe was once ruled by the world's
16:37oldest leader? President Robert Mugabe was 93 years old when his authoritarian reign ended.
16:43But even under the current president, Mnangagwa, who is 83 years old, Zimbabwe is still not a country
16:50where everybody can just speak their mind. I noticed that every time I talk to young Zimbabweans.
16:55Many are super reluctant to publicly say anything negative about the government.
17:0126-year-old Namatai Kwekweza does not belong to that group. She's an activist and has won this year's
17:08German Africa prize for her courageous commitment to the rule of law and democracy in Zimbabwe.
17:14The group we lead has gathered to learn about the constitution and democracy. Zimbabwean human
17:26rights activist Namatai Kwekweza founded the organization which focuses on civic education
17:33and civil rights. The activism itself and the advocacy journey is something that then, you know,
17:38transpired through the things that I would experience. So when my mom was retrenched,
17:44it was part of very powerful politicians and judges conniving to create a statutory instrument,
17:50a law that would allow them to retrench people on a three-month notice and not pay them anything.
17:55And my mom was one of the thousands of people that was affected by that.
18:01Namatai started We Lead at 18 with no prior experience in human rights activism.
18:07Today, her organization operates in Zimbabwe, Botswana and South Africa.
18:12I'm a constitutionalist and I like to focus on the constitution as a cultural practice,
18:18as a leaving document, as something that we are leaving every day, breathing.
18:23You know, when you talk about the right to education, you know, when you talk about the right to life,
18:29when you talk about environmental rights, when you talk about accessing clean drinking water.
18:33Namatai's activism comes at a high cost amid Zimbabwe's escalating crackdown on dissent.
18:40In July 2024, she and two other campaigners were arrested for taking part in a protest
18:46against the detention of opposition supporters. They were tortured, charged with disorderly conduct,
18:51and held for 35 days. It was a very painful process because I really watched how the difference,
18:58the different, you know, departments of government, be it immigration to the police,
19:04to the magistrate courts, and the prosecutors themselves came together and sort of colluded
19:10to actually keep us in prison.
19:12At the time of her arrest, activists in Zimbabwe were protesting economic hardship,
19:20rights violations, and the lack of democratic space.
19:25Ahead of the August 2024 Southern African Development Community Summit in Harare,
19:31the government arrested and beat opposition members, students, and civil society leaders
19:37to prevent protests. After 35 days in detention, Namatai and her colleagues were acquitted.
19:44She now draws on her own experience in detention to consult and support others.
19:49You know, if you're abducted for speaking truth to power,
19:51if you're in prison for speaking truth to power, it's hard. But if you're waking up and you're leaving
19:57a life, a shell of a life that is limited in opportunity and possibility, that is also hard.
20:03So I think it's very important for young people to choose the prison in which they want to belong in.
20:09Congratulations, Namatai Kwekweza, and keep up the good work. I'm sure you are an inspiration to many others.
20:17Now, for some African countries, pursuing democracy does not only mean speaking up to those in power.
20:22As we find out in Senegal, it's also about being proud of Africa's rich history.
20:27It's about believing in Africa's immense strength instead of relying on foreign powers,
20:33whose political and financial influence often comes with strings attached.
20:37Let's travel to Senegal's capital, Dakar, to find out how young people are shaping the country's future,
20:44even when it's risky.
20:47What really makes Senegalese democracy strong in a region marked by political instability?
20:52In Dakar, we met those who live it, defend it, and sometimes pay a heavy price for it.
20:5865 years of independence and five elected presidents.
21:03Senegal is often cited as a model of democracy in Africa.
21:06In Dakar's streets, this reputation is a source of pride for the youth.
21:11In Senegal, everyone has the freedom to speak and express themselves.
21:16The strength of a democratic country is that the government actually listens to its people.
21:23Democracy is when everyone is treated the same, no matter their political views.
21:30Countries in crisis are not democracies.
21:32Dictatorships can last a year, two years, ten years, but sooner or later, they explode into conflict.
21:40For me, an independent country is a democratic country, a country of peace.
21:44Dictatorship can last a year, a country of peace.
21:45Democracy, a precious achievement for Suleiman, an activist with front for a popular and pan-African
21:52anti-imperialist revolution, a grassroots citizens' movement.
21:56Are our democracies being held captive by a group or an elite?
22:02This morning, he's leading a civic awareness workshop with a dozen young people.
22:07For the young people of Dakar in Senegal's capital, one word comes up again and again, democracy.
22:16I don't agree with everything about democracy, but we have to remember it's for the people.
22:21I don't understand why we choose our MPs in Senegal this way. The political parties decide. We don't
22:29even know who our representatives will be after the election.
22:32The goal of this meeting? To rethink the foundations of democracy. For some, it means peace. For others,
22:43justice or a government that truly listens to its people.
22:48Without democracy, we go back to the state of nature, where everyone does as they please.
22:55That's why, even if it's imperfect, we must keep questioning and improving it.
23:00It's what allows society to function.
23:06Between 2021 and 2024, Senegal's democratic model wavered.
23:12Mustafa witnessed it firsthand and paid a heavy price for his convictions.
23:18This is where they arrested me. It was the 30th of March.
23:22In March 2023, the country erupted after opposition leader Ousmane Sonko was convicted.
23:28A move seen as an attempt by President Makisal to cling to power.
23:33Mustafa, then 25, joined the protests.
23:37The torture was horrible. It stays in your mind. The way they tortured us.
23:41Even animals aren't treated like that. They didn't even let us speak.
23:46Mustafa spent five months in prison.
23:48He lost his scholarship and his dream of studying law.
23:56Every new regime should respect term limits. But every time there's a transition,
24:01they're suffering, deaths. And it's us, the youth, who pay the highest price.
24:05That's why I question Senegalese democracy. There's still a lot to do to strengthen it.
24:10Senegalese, because this will be very, very important.
24:13Half of Senegal's population is under 20, according to the latest census.
24:18In a West African region shaken by political instability,
24:22Senegal stands out as a true laboratory of democracy, driven by its youth.
24:29And to wrap up our show, let's hear from young people in Botswana,
24:33a country that is considered one of Africa's leading democracies.
24:36So, democracy, yay or nay?
24:39Democracy, it is important because it protects our rights and peace.
24:44It's what you have to say in how the country runs and how it runs.
24:47Let me pray, since it's important for the China, of course.
24:50A lot of times, Kuwait knows that our language needs our voice of peace.
24:55We can hear in harmony and in our voice, I suppose, like a nutrition.
25:01Democracy means having a say in how a country should be learned.
25:06It protects people's rights and also promotes accountability and promotes citizen participation.
25:17Well, that's all we have time for today.
25:19You've now heard from the youth in Botswana and our reporters from across Africa.
25:24And now we want to hear from you.
25:27What is the state of democracy in your country and what are you doing to get involved in making
25:32your country a place where everyone is treated equally and has a voice?
25:37Let us know by writing to us.
25:39I'm Liz Cho and I'll leave you with the song Power by the multi-talented Kenyan Muthoni,
25:45Drummer Queen. Enjoy and see you soon.
25:59Meet my friendsite.
26:01Rabbit onacon.
26:04It is important to explain why people can learn the stories behind you for us.
26:05And keep learning the stories.
26:05You have nasze stories.
26:06What are my stories?
26:06I never told them to drink to learn.
26:08That's the way your story is able to inherit you.
26:17That's what it is.
26:19I love being the methylше of freedom.
26:20It's true.
26:20It's true.
26:21It's true.
26:22How do you think about it?
26:23I love getting it.
26:24It's true.
26:24It's true!
26:25It's true.
26:25It's true.
26:25It's true.
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26:26It's true.
26:27How do you think about it?
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