00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Hello and welcome back to the 77%.
00:08 This week we are in Nigeria.
00:10 And this country's president,
00:12 when he was elected on 29th May of 2023,
00:15 inherited an economy in dire straits.
00:18 In the months since he's been in power,
00:20 Bola Tenobu has tried to take measures
00:21 to uplift or resuscitate that economy.
00:24 But the young people of this country
00:25 are saying that their pockets
00:26 are still not able to sustain what the country is demanding.
00:30 And so today we are asking,
00:31 is the government able to come to their aid
00:33 when they're in crisis?
00:35 So let me start this conversation
00:36 by introducing Tunji Andrews, who's an economist.
00:39 Can you just paint a picture
00:40 of what the economy looks like right now?
00:42 - Inflation is really high.
00:44 The dollar to the Naira is now close to a thousand Naira.
00:48 It used to be 200 Naira, maybe another six years ago.
00:53 So you can just imagine what it is,
00:55 the effects on the average everyday person's pocket.
00:58 So it is a situation where a lot of people
01:01 are really going through it.
01:02 And it doesn't look like there is any hope on the horizon
01:07 because the government in trying to get the funds
01:10 to be able to fix the issues
01:11 are also removing things like subsidies on petrol,
01:15 subsidies on gas, subsidies on electricity.
01:17 So it's making it more difficult
01:19 for Nigerians to actually exist.
01:21 - Okay, one of the reports I read said
01:24 that 12% of the population living in absolute poverty
01:27 is here in Nigeria.
01:29 And that really surprised me.
01:30 Idroma, are you seeing a difference since,
01:33 as life is getting tougher for people
01:35 and you're a journalist and you're covering these issues,
01:37 what is changing in the society?
01:39 - Now that for subsidies has been removed,
01:41 it's affecting the cost of production.
01:44 An entrepreneur that needs, that has little capital now,
01:48 can not even, that capital is not even enough
01:51 to do his business.
01:53 So it gets worse now.
01:55 People, the gap between the poor and the rich is widening.
01:59 People that used to be in the middle class
02:02 have gone now to the lower class
02:05 because of this change, the so-called change.
02:08 Something that was supposed to help us
02:11 has made everything worse.
02:13 - Let me hear from the people in the audience.
02:14 How has your life changed in the last couple of years?
02:17 Are you feeling the economic burden?
02:19 DJ Pretty, talk to me.
02:21 - Everything like when you go to the market
02:22 to get anything you want,
02:24 everything is just, just too expensive.
02:28 The house rent has increased.
02:29 We are staying, I used to pay 1.5 on the island,
02:34 but now they've increased it to 2 million.
02:37 Landlord, the caretakers, they don't care.
02:40 They all need to survive too, I understand that part.
02:42 But then where do we get those money from?
02:45 I have a son, I have to feed my son.
02:47 I have to, I have to just pick up three jobs
02:50 to be able to meet up.
02:52 - All right, Bisi, you wanted to say something to me.
02:53 - We just come out of COVID-19
02:55 and we all understand what's happened during that system.
02:59 A lot of Nigerians lost jobs.
03:01 You know, a lot of organization in there is closed down
03:04 because they couldn't continue to operate.
03:08 But then all these were not considered at all.
03:11 What did governments put in place?
03:13 What are the system governments put in place
03:15 to be able, you know, to help the masses
03:18 at a time like this?
03:20 But then there is nothing, nothing has been done.
03:22 - Yeah, Ayo, I'd like you to answer this for me
03:24 because you're in politics.
03:26 - The reality is that the government must first admit
03:30 that its political parties mismanagement of the economy
03:34 has created a situation
03:36 which has led to the fuel subsidy removal.
03:39 The argument that they have made
03:41 is that it is driven by theft
03:43 and the fact that they cannot fund projects.
03:46 But unfortunately, you haven't pursued these criminals
03:49 who have been stealing from our Commonwealth
03:51 and it has hardly been any prosecution
03:54 of these so-called criminals.
03:55 So living expenses have skyrocketed
03:58 because the biggest price shock that any economy can take,
04:02 it's its energy, right?
04:04 If the cost of energy continues to hit the roof,
04:08 we'll continue to create poverty upon poverty, right?
04:12 - But you've said something really interesting
04:14 which is that the knock-on effects of this,
04:16 it's driving people into desperation,
04:19 into serious, serious poverty.
04:21 But Tunji, I'm coming back to you
04:22 with the same question I started with.
04:24 Why is this happening in Nigeria?
04:28 How is it possible that we're still talking, again,
04:30 subsidizing fuel in an oil-rich country?
04:33 Those two things don't seem to belong in the same sentence.
04:35 - The general context is when an economy is in a bad state
04:40 like the one Nigeria is in,
04:42 from years and decades of bad mismanagement,
04:46 policy mismatch, brazen theft,
04:50 it will need to take some hard, hard decisions.
04:52 Nigeria has gotten here not by one decision,
04:55 not by one bad president.
04:57 It's gotten here by several bad actors
04:59 bringing us here continuously.
05:02 So the question is, what do we do to fix it?
05:05 If we're really as excited or really as passionate
05:10 about making Nigeria better,
05:11 I think the real job is in holding government accountable.
05:14 - Hold on, let me actually ask the person
05:16 who's in opposition.
05:17 How do you hold the government accountable?
05:19 You are relaxing here, wait.
05:21 - Relaxing.
05:22 I mean, we're joking.
05:24 You can't hold these people to account.
05:26 - So what's the point?
05:28 - So the people shouting,
05:29 "Let's hold government accountable,"
05:31 are just singing songs.
05:32 You can't hold them to account.
05:34 They are still driving their SUVs with their convoys.
05:37 They're still flying first class.
05:39 They're still appointing hundreds of aides
05:41 and flying them across the world for meetings.
05:43 So we're joking.
05:44 - So if it's really a joke,
05:46 why are you in opposition politics
05:48 if you really think nothing can change?
05:49 - First, my argument is we need to begin to think
05:53 in our own self-interest as citizens
05:55 because the politicians take care of themselves
05:57 every time, seven days a week, twice on Sunday.
06:00 We have to think selfishly for ourselves
06:02 and understand where our own self-interest lies.
06:05 That's why I'm excited about the young people
06:07 who are fighting for low school fees.
06:10 They are pursuing their own self-interest
06:12 because the politicians will always take care of themselves.
06:15 - Let me hear from, give me a second.
06:17 Just give me a second to hear from Martin
06:19 because you mentioned self-interest
06:21 and Martin has actually been arrested
06:22 for criticizing the government, correct?
06:25 - So, correct, that's correct.
06:26 But I want to totally disagree with Ayo
06:29 because when you talk about accountable--
06:32 - Hey, he's even removed his glasses.
06:33 He's serious now.
06:34 - When you talk about holding governments accountable,
06:36 we've seen a lot of progress
06:38 in terms of holding governments accountable.
06:39 So for example, what we are doing here
06:41 and expressing ourselves,
06:43 if government listens,
06:44 we are also holding governments accountable,
06:46 saying, listen, the subsidy you removed,
06:48 you did it in a very bad and hogwash way.
06:51 You should have fixed refineries, first of all,
06:54 so that we can produce petroleum locally.
06:57 - So I like that because it brings us really nicely
06:59 into some solutions, right?
07:01 If you had the chance to be in those top offices today,
07:04 what would you do to change things around?
07:07 It's giving Gen Z.
07:08 Let's hear what you have to say.
07:10 - You know, there's something known
07:10 as constructive criticism
07:12 and I feel like we as citizens should be allowed
07:15 to constructively criticize the government
07:17 without being condemned.
07:18 - Bisi?
07:19 - What the public is saying should be considered as need
07:24 and not to be seen as threats.
07:27 - And finally?
07:28 - The people, which is the most important factor
07:32 in this entire conversation,
07:34 need to realize that the people who are in government
07:37 are not gods.
07:38 They came out from us.
07:40 They need to be held accountable.
07:42 - Okay, I think that is a beautiful place to wind up.
07:45 It was a very complex question that I asked,
07:47 but I think Tunji has tried to sum it up really nicely
07:50 and I don't dare add anything there.
07:53 For you, for watching, I thank you always
07:55 and see you next time.
07:57 (upbeat music)
08:00 (upbeat music)
08:02 (upbeat music)
Comments