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Ever wonder who s responsible for bringing your favorite stars to the big screen_ Our incredible Casting Directors pull back the curtain on the world of casting. They share what they look for in fresh talent their wildest audition stories and advice on how to thrive as an actor.__LISTEN TO REELTALK__YouTube_ https___bit.ly_ReelTalkYouTube_Spotify_ https___spoti.fi_40aLVFg_Apple Podcasts_ https___apple.co_3VVqoOs__JOIN OUR COMMUNITY__Discord_ https___discord.com_invite_JJM5ShkEy5
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00:00Hey everyone, it's Sarah Moliski and welcome back to Real Talk where it gets hot, spicy, and to the drama.
00:05Today is a very special episode because we're going to be interviewing two top casting directors.
00:11They cast big shows, big feature films, and vertical soaps.
00:15So sit back, relax, and get ready to sip some casting tea.
00:30Okay, Chad and Rebecca, firstly, I just have to say I am so excited to just dive into your brains and learn from the iconic casting gurus.
00:50Thank you, I am very, very happy to be here.
00:53Thank you for having me, it's very exciting.
00:55Nice to meet you, nice to meet you.
00:57This is so cool.
00:58We're all three casting directors, and we actually share something in common.
01:02We are actors, or I was an actor as well.
01:05So it's such a unique experience, sort of understanding the casting process from that perspective as well.
01:11Oh, absolutely.
01:11I was an actor also at first as well, so all three of us were.
01:13Oh wow, okay, all three of us.
01:14Look at that.
01:15I know, crazy, crazy.
01:16We can share some horror stories.
01:18I'm sure we absolutely can, from horror movie sets, actually.
01:21Actually, yeah, exactly.
01:22There was blood, and for many reasons.
01:26Why sweat tears?
01:27There's tears, every time there's tears, come on.
01:29Yes, there is crying in filmmaking, let's be honest.
01:32Absolutely.
01:33Oh my gosh.
01:33So we were all talking about this behind the scenes earlier, but obviously the studio just came out, and everybody's watching that.
01:40And while watching that, I'm like, this is me.
01:42I'm screaming into my phone at all moments, like, what?
01:45Oh my gosh, what's going on?
01:47Blah, blah, blah.
01:47And it's like, I can't wait to get into how you guys kind of just navigate the stress of working in film, working as a casting director, being the head of a department, and just what that really means.
01:59Because I feel like casting directors, one, don't get enough credit, two, people don't actually know what we do.
02:05No.
02:05Right, totally.
02:06No, they really don't.
02:07And so today, I just want to dive into all of the different routes and roads of what casting is, what to do, what not to do, and just how to kind of get your foot in the door.
02:18And plus, I went on my own Instagram account and asked all my followers questions that they want to ask you guys.
02:23So at the end, we can see real people having real questions.
02:27They're real actors.
02:28Love it.
02:28They're submitting to all your work right now.
02:30So I just can't wait to get into that.
02:32Perfect.
02:32So why don't you guys tell me a little bit about your background?
02:35How did you get into casting?
02:37How did you fall into this department?
02:40That's a great question.
02:41So I have been working in Hollywood for over 20 years.
02:44I did originally start doing acting, but then I moved into production very quickly, producing, writing.
02:50I've done some directing as well.
02:52And then when it came to casting, originally, a producer friend of mine hired to cast one of his features.
02:57And he was really happy.
02:59And so it just kind of snowballed from there.
03:00He started recommending me to other people.
03:02And then I started working for certain streamers and stuff like that.
03:05And it's been a really great experience.
03:07And I'm sure both of you are going to speak on this as well.
03:09Coming from starting as an actor and then doing this, you have a really, really unique perspective on how this whole thing worked.
03:16Because very few casting directors in Hollywood have been on both sides of the camera.
03:21Usually they just start out behind the camera.
03:23You know what I mean?
03:24But we have this whole other perspective of doing what it's like to have to, you know, film that audition with only 12 hours to turn it in.
03:31And you're not off book and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
03:33You know what I mean?
03:34So I think we're coming at this from a different perspective than most casting directors typically are.
03:38Wouldn't you say?
03:39Yeah.
03:39It's the empathy and understanding that most casting directors don't have.
03:42And watching an actor sort of go through the process, you kind of understand every step of the way for them.
03:48And, you know, we kind of help them along the way.
03:50A lot of times, and this is something I'm sure we're going to touch on as well, people are under the assumption that we cast everything.
03:56Like, we make the final call for all the leads, all the supporting actors.
03:59That is not true.
04:00That's not true.
04:01Everybody who's watching this who hates me, I wish I could give you the lead.
04:06I do.
04:07Absolutely.
04:07Absolutely.
04:07It's not us.
04:08Right.
04:09I do not get the final.
04:10I mean, I will definitely say, like, this is who I really, really think should be the lead in your movie.
04:14But at the end of the day, the executive producers and the producers are the ones making those call.
04:18Regardless of whether it's a studio, a streamer, a vertical, like, we're not the ones making those final decisions.
04:23You know what I mean?
04:24Absolutely.
04:25That's number one that everyone should really, really figure out.
04:27But, yeah, it's been this whole vertical process has been, like, just an incredible thing to watch happen at this level also.
04:34You know what I mean?
04:34Because we're really at the ground level of watching this entire thing become something that everyone's watching in the world.
04:39Right.
04:39Well, that actually segues into my next topic, which is great, which is, so you guys come from traditional casting with what we call the horizontal land.
04:48So features, series, short films, all that kind of thing.
04:53So tell me a little bit about the difference of casting for something like that versus a vertical soap opera.
04:59Yeah, I mean, I think one of the biggest things, sort of, I want to start by something that sort of, like, brings us together.
05:05And that is sort of the quality.
05:06So everybody that works on either vertical or horizontal programs, they want to do the best job possible.
05:11They want to create the best product possible.
05:14The biggest difference, I think, is sort of the time constraint.
05:17For us, like, back in the day when I was doing scripted and non-scripted, we'd have six months, six to eight months to find maybe 30 people.
05:27Are you kidding?
05:28Oh, yeah.
05:29Yeah.
05:29And we would travel.
05:31We would, I mean, there was a lot involved.
05:33And for verticals, you know, a lot of that time is condensed.
05:37And, you know, it's, I love that challenge, though.
05:40So what came from six months to eight months is now two weeks, two and a half weeks, if you're lucky.
05:47One of the things that actors hopefully understand is that we want you guys to get the job.
05:53We want to be able to look at that first tape and be like, yes, and be able to pitch that up to the writers, the producers, the executive producers.
05:59So we're always rooting for you.
06:02It's just, you know, it's getting that, getting yourself to that point and getting the tapes ready and everything else to be able to get us to get you to that point.
06:10Yes, well said.
06:11Yeah, we are on your side, actors, truly.
06:13Like, we're all on the same team.
06:15We want you to do the best job that you possibly can.
06:18And going back to what you said originally, it is a great feeling when you have pushed really hard for someone to be a lead.
06:24And then you show up to set and they're killing it, especially if, like, the producers were like, I don't know if this is the right lead.
06:30But you, like, push, push, push, and they believe you.
06:31And then you get in there and they're like, great, we love them, they're perfect.
06:34And you're like, it's so satisfying when that happens.
06:37There's nothing better.
06:38On the other side, we all know that that doesn't happen a lot.
06:40Like, we'll push some for someone really, really hard.
06:42And there's some producer that's like, well, no, so-and-so really likes that.
06:46She's a redhead.
06:47So we're just going to go.
06:48And you're like, okay, I guess that's how we're making this casting call.
06:51You know what I mean?
06:51But that is, unfortunately, how it works.
06:53What would you say are some little tips and tricks of the trade?
06:58Just big yeses, big no-nos about some self-tapes that you guys have been seeing, at least just talking about verticals right now.
07:05Yeah.
07:05I mean, I think, you know, getting your reels on point is super helpful.
07:09Like, we do not have all the time in the world.
07:11So typically what I do is when I look at a reel, I'm probably making up my mind in the first maybe 15 to 20 seconds of that reel.
07:21So one of the things I've noticed that actors do, and it comes from a good place, but when they've signed up for a casting portal, like Casting Networks, Breakdown Express, Backstage, and they post 13 or 14 videos of them, and one of them's like in a group of 13 other actors, and I'm trying to figure out who you are.
07:41I'm trying to sort of understand your ability.
07:44It's a little, it's not the most helpful.
07:46So what I would suggest is pick three or four just, you know, great videos that sort of focus on you and your ability.
07:54And one of the things we were talking about earlier is, you know, you don't have to spend a lot of money on these self-tapes or on these reels, excuse me.
08:01Oh, God, yeah.
08:02You know, all you need, and that's the great thing about verticals, you don't need an agent, you don't need a manager, all you need is a phone, a monologue, and your acting ability, and that will get you through the door.
08:13So that's what I'd love to see.
08:15I'd love to see, I'd love to see a reel that is to the point that showcases and focuses on that actor and their ability.
08:22And, you know, it's, you know, some people are great at comedy, some people are great at drama, some people are great at both.
08:29Find out what you're really great at, hone in on that, and then get us a couple of tapes that sort of match that, and you're good to go.
08:36Right.
08:36Yeah, absolutely.
08:37And also get really honest with yourself as to exactly what kind of type you are as an actor.
08:43You know what I mean?
08:44Because we all have, obviously, we all have different looks, you know what I mean?
08:48But certain people, like, for example, the project that I'm casting right now, they're supposed to be a high school bully.
08:52You know what I mean?
08:53And there's just certain guys, even though I'm sure they're very nice in real life, but they emulate high school bully.
08:59You know what I mean?
09:00And there's obviously some of those actors that get that because they took headshots that look like they're the highest, so it's like they get it.
09:06But you want to know what your type is when you submit yourself for something, because a lot of times actors submit themselves for roles, and it's like, you are definitely not this type.
09:14You know what I mean?
09:15So you need to get really honest with yourself, because that is part of being a working actor, wherever you are in the world, is you have to know how the casting people, how the producers are going to perceive you when you go into that audition.
09:25Honestly, I feel like there needs to be a lot of self-awareness as an actor with what you're talking about, with even, like, knowing what roles you fit, and even if it's a hard pill to swallow and you might want something different, like, what's going to get you on set?
09:40What's going to get you in a callback, at least?
09:43And even self-awareness with how you interact with casting, how you email, how you're, if you're in the casting director's DM slash phone slash calling their mom, being like, hey, did you get my tape, blah, blah, blah.
09:55It's like, we got your tape, honey.
09:57Like, you know, it's kind of like, just read the room a little bit and, like, back up sometimes, but know when to drop a cute little hint to the casting director.
10:06It's very nuanced, and I feel like it's a big skill that people, actors need to kind of get sometimes more.
10:14Sure, yeah.
10:14A lot of it comes to, like, just how, you know, when you work, you're going to pick up these skills.
10:18You know, the more you do something, the better you get at it, obviously.
10:21But, yeah, you definitely want to learn how to read the room, read the producers, read the casting, you know what I mean?
10:26Because you don't want to be annoying to people and, you know, bother them after they've been like, we're still casting, I don't have an answer for you yet.
10:33You don't want to email them 20 more times in the next 24 hours.
10:36Oh, my God.
10:36Did you make a decision?
10:37Did you make a decision?
10:38You know what I mean?
10:38And I understand that you really want to know if you booked it, but you can't make people crazy in the meantime.
10:43Sure, and that's, you know, if we're afforded our space as casting directors, the one thing I love to do, especially if I bring somebody in for a self-tape or for a callback or for a chemistry read,
10:52I love to sort of talk with them afterwards and just say, hey, listen, like, this is what worked, this is what didn't.
10:59I think that feedback is incredibly important, which is why this is so great, because now we're able to sort of get the word out and, you know, everything else for the actors.
11:09They move very, very fast.
11:10Like you were saying, traditionally, like, in features that are horizontal, you have months of pre-production.
11:16So there's months of, like, just the initial casting process, and then there'll be callbacks, and then a new producer will come in and be like,
11:22I don't like any of these people for this role.
11:24Start from scratch.
11:26You know what I mean?
11:26But in verticals, we do not have that luxury.
11:28It's like, we start in three weeks, so by the end of next week, I need to have all my supporting roles locked.
11:33And you're like, okay, let's get to work.
11:35You know what I mean?
11:35God, it sounds good.
11:36Yeah.
11:36Yeah, there's not that time.
11:38Like, so it's like you really need to know exactly what types they're looking for when it comes to verticals.
11:43Like, be really, really clear.
11:44Make sure you've spoken to the director and the producers, and you know really what type that they're looking for,
11:49because you don't have time to be like, let me give you all these options of things that I feel like, you know what I mean?
11:53It's like, no, we need to cast this stat.
11:55So, yeah.
11:56Absolutely.
11:56I think one of the things I love to do is, if I've worked with an actor 10 years ago on something that's completely different than, you know, what I'm doing now,
12:06I will have that person in the back of my mind, because one, they did a fantastic job.
12:10Two, they had a great personality.
12:11Three, they were punctual.
12:12So, all those things I think are critical, but getting yourself out there, doing that tape, even if it's not going to be this vertical or the next three, the next four,
12:22you putting that tape in and you getting seen in front of the executives, in front of the writer, these people may not be here forever.
12:28They may go off and do other things.
12:30They may go off and work for Netflix.
12:31Yeah.
12:31They may go off and work for NBC, which is the last company that I worked for.
12:35They will remember you.
12:38So, think about it, sort of broad strokes, big terms.
12:42Doing this tape could lead to a hundred different other things.
12:45I'll tell you a really quick story.
12:46I had a background actor that I did for one of these verticals for real short.
12:50Absolutely love the guy.
12:51Great look.
12:52Great personality.
12:54I had the opportunity to bring him in as a lead for the next vertical because he was so cool and was so gung-ho and so nice.
13:01I brought him in.
13:02He tested, did really well, and it looks like he may actually get the job.
13:07So, you never know whether it's a background actor or a day player, you know, a small supporting, main supporting.
13:14It can always, always, always lead to something.
13:17Absolutely.
13:17Always lead to something.
13:18And people like to work with people that they have worked with before and had a good experience with.
13:22You know what I mean?
13:23Yes.
13:23If you know that an actor is going to show up on time, know their lines, hit their mark.
13:26Yes.
13:27Right?
13:27Yes.
13:28Like, it's really easy to want to call that person in again.
13:31However, if you book someone and they act like a total diva and they email you a billion times and they're unhappy with everything, you better believe I am never going to call that person in again to read because I don't have time for that.
13:42And to go back to timely auditions, just so you know, when you get that audition actor, I would definitely film it as quickly as possible and get it to producers.
13:51Because, for example, I'm casting something right now.
13:54I gave actors for a specific role I told them they had until this Friday to submit tape.
13:59So we've been getting a lot of tapes.
14:00Guess what?
14:01As of this morning, producers already decided that they want someone specifically.
14:04They already saw a tape that they like.
14:06So it's like everyone else is going to send me tapes for the rest of the week.
14:08It doesn't matter because they made their decision this morning because that actress got it into me fast.
14:13You know what I mean?
14:13Like, that is truly how it works.
14:15You need to get your audition in before producers are going to find someone that they really like because then it's over, you know?
14:21This is so true.
14:23This is so true.
14:24I actually want to talk about something that I've experienced with booking some day players.
14:31So I've had some day players with management who are like, the management is fighting tooth and nail for that 20%.
14:38And I get it.
14:38You know, that's their job, whatever.
14:40But we can't give them 20% on a day player rate.
14:44It's just not possible.
14:45Like, they're on for three days.
14:46Maybe they're making $250, whatever.
14:49That's still a way to get your client on set to meet all these other actors, to meet all these other people.
14:55You never know who they're going to meet.
14:56But then sometimes the managers do a disservice for the actors.
15:00And I don't know about you guys if it's just verticals.
15:02This is a question from my heart.
15:04Some of the managers and agencies are beyond mean and disrespectful.
15:08And they, like, hate the space.
15:11They think it's trash.
15:12They, the way that they talk is derogatory or they're unprofessional.
15:16And I'm like, damn.
15:17I mean, I'm a manager as well.
15:19So I want to speak on this to someone that's also a manager.
15:22I don't, so I, I don't feel that way.
15:24I mean, and obviously verticals are new.
15:26Okay.
15:26So we've been managers before verticals became something in the mainstream zeitgeist.
15:30I do know, I, I have had that being a casting director.
15:33I have had these agents and managers.
15:35Yeah.
15:36I'm like, I'm like, hold on there, everyone.
15:39I'm a manager to take a step back.
15:41Okay.
15:41I also like, I mean, and this is true.
15:44Hollywood is the craziest right now it's ever been since I've been here.
15:47There's very little mainstream work.
15:48And so I think we're seeing a lot of desperation from agents and managers who are like their,
15:54their earnings are down like 80% from where they were in the past couple of years.
15:58And so they're desperate even to make that $25 commission that they're going to get from
16:01this.
16:02Right.
16:03It's like, no one has any money.
16:04And so I feel like in a different time in Hollywood history, we wouldn't maybe see that level of
16:08aggression with the agents and the managers, but we are definitely seeing, I'm seeing it
16:13now and I'm sure I know you're seeing it now, but yeah.
16:15Cause it's just, cause there's not any work.
16:16They're like, I need my clients to be working.
16:18Right.
16:19Right.
16:19I think the sooner agents and managers and actors come to the realization that this is
16:25ground floor, like verticals are ground floor right now.
16:29And the quicker you jump on board to what is going to be an inevitability, the better it
16:36is for everybody.
16:36Right.
16:37So I've, I've spoken to a lot of actors that, that were traditionally and exclusively horizontal,
16:43like, like soap opera stars, like people that have done good bodies of work that are now
16:48looking at verticals as, as, as a, a way to continue acting, continue making money, continue
16:54getting reels.
16:56Um, you know, and that's, it's just, it, it, it is such a, a, a unique experience from a
17:01casting director's perspective to sort of be in this world as it's just starting and to
17:06watch these actors sort of grow and flourish within this and just know where it's going to
17:11end up.
17:12Right.
17:12Yeah.
17:13I mean, it is, it is the future and it's really exciting to be witnessing it at this
17:17ground level.
17:17I mean, I talk about this all the time, but yeah, we are seeing, um, agents and managers
17:22that have been in the business for over 30 years and they're fighting the verticals tooth
17:26and nail.
17:26They think it's a fad.
17:27And I tell them all the time, I'm like, follow the money.
17:30These companies are making billions of dollars.
17:32These aren't going anywhere.
17:33So you better jump on board now.
17:35You know what I mean?
17:36Right.
17:36Fighting this is not going to do anything for anyone.
17:39And the other thing is these actors are getting paid.
17:41Well, you know what I mean?
17:42Like, I mean, I don't know about you, but back way back in the day when I first moved
17:47to LA, like the, like the asylum who does horror movies, I don't know what you're talking
17:50about.
17:51They were paying $25 a day.
17:53Okay.
17:53A day for actors to act in those movies way back in the day.
17:57It's $2.50 now.
17:58Right.
17:59Exactly.
17:59For every role.
18:00And I mean, SAG scale, I believe is $2.50 for like independent films.
18:03I think so.
18:04Yeah.
18:04So it's like, I don't know what people are complaining about, you know, people love to
18:08hate on something that's new to them.
18:10And that's, it's easy to call this cringe, right?
18:13I actually did an interview where I was talking about this, where I have so many friends who
18:16are like, you know, highbrow.
18:17And they're like, I would never do that.
18:19Like, I wouldn't want that on my IMDb.
18:20And I'm like, sis, you haven't done anything except a dog collar commercial.
18:24And you did an age 24, six years ago.
18:26Correct.
18:26Like, I'm sorry.
18:28Like, I got to pay rent.
18:30There's nothing cringey about paying your bills.
18:32There's nothing cringey about meeting cool people, going on set, doing the thing.
18:36Like, these are fun.
18:37It's fun to be soapy.
18:39Every actor's dream.
18:40People love them.
18:41That's the thing.
18:42People love to watch these.
18:43They are bringing people joy.
18:44They find them entertaining.
18:46Yeah.
18:46Like, there's no wrong way to be entertained if you like to be entertained.
18:49You know what I mean?
18:50Because yes, I have these conversations all the time, too.
18:52We've had clients be like, I don't do vertical.
18:53Right.
18:54I'm like, well, okay, have fun missing out on what everything is going to be in the next five
18:58years.
18:58You know what I mean?
18:59Absolutely.
19:00Because it's what it is.
19:00Okay, so I think there's a lot more to talk about, but let's play a game.
19:04All right.
19:04I love games.
19:05Me too.
19:07Okay, guys, so I'm going to read you some statements, and you'll tell me if it's fact
19:11or fiction.
19:12All right, let's do it.
19:13Okay, so first off the bat, we have casting directors have the final say on who gets cast.
19:21100%.
19:21I mean, we will give them our top options, but when it comes to being like, this is the
19:25one, yeah, we're not the one making that call.
19:27Next question.
19:28Casting directors don't watch self-tape auditions.
19:33We watch them all, and we watch them specifically so that if we need you to shoot it again, we
19:38can give you points, tips, and tricks.
19:40Next question.
19:41Big stars like Leonardo DiCaprio never have to audition.
19:47You heard it.
19:49You have to audition.
19:50You're not above auditioning.
19:52Next question.
19:54Some actors pretend to have accents or special skills to book roles.
19:58Absolutely.
19:59Oh, yeah.
20:00Been there, done that.
20:01If your tape doesn't get chosen, it's probably because you weren't good enough.
20:07Damn.
20:10Okay, that wraps up the game.
20:13Oh, wow.
20:14There you go.
20:15Okay, guys.
20:17So I want to talk about some casting horror stories, whether the actor, once they're already
20:22booked and on set, or even like a really weird audition process, or like terrible emailing
20:27skills or something.
20:28So can you guys tell me some of your worst horror stories?
20:32We're both looking at each other.
20:34I know, right?
20:34I mean, there's, so here's a fun one.
20:39I was casting a horror movie, and we cast the lead actor.
20:42Everyone's super happy.
20:44Day one rolls around.
20:45I can't remember exactly why I was on set for day one, but I was.
20:49So, you know, an hour goes by.
20:51The lead actor isn't there.
20:53Hour two goes by.
20:54They're not there.
20:55They're not answering the phone.
20:56They're not answering.
20:56No one knows what's going on.
20:57Everyone's panic, panic, panic, right?
20:59So it just so happened that one of the director's friends was there that happened to also be right
21:04for this role, and the director was like, you know, F it.
21:06We're just going to plug in this guy.
21:08He's here.
21:08I don't know where this guy is.
21:09No one can get a hold of him.
21:10So, of course, the guy that I cast rolls in two and a half hours late.
21:13They're like, oh, my God, my alarm didn't go off.
21:15I'm so sorry.
21:16My phone died.
21:17Like, all of the things that they always say.
21:19And I'm like, bad news, buddy.
21:21They recast the movie because you weren't here, and it's day one, and they had the availability
21:25to do it, and he totally freaked out.
21:27He got really mad at me.
21:27He got really mad at everyone.
21:28I'm like, you cannot be late on set.
21:32You cannot be late.
21:33There are too many people here working.
21:34There are too many people to put too much effort into this day one to make this happen.
21:39You cannot get mad at me or anyone else.
21:41I'm sorry that your alarm didn't go off.
21:43I'm sorry that your phone died, but you cannot be late.
21:46You need to have yourself together.
21:49You know what I mean?
21:49Like a little bit.
21:50Jeez.
21:51I know.
21:51I mean, yeah.
21:53There's a plan B, C, and D for situations like that that we always prepare for.
21:58Punctuality is such an important thing for an actor.
22:00It's like the basic.
22:01Just get to work.
22:02Right.
22:02Get to work and know your lines.
22:04That's really, those are the basics.
22:05Yes.
22:06Yes.
22:07Yeah.
22:07If you've had three or four days with the full script, and you show up to set, and you're
22:12constantly asking the director for the line, then that's like, there's-
22:16It's embarrassing too.
22:17Yeah.
22:17Just learn, yeah, learn the script, learn the craft, show up on time.
22:21I know.
22:23I've got an insane story.
22:24Oh, yeah.
22:25Let's hear it.
22:25Let's hear it.
22:26This one was nuts even for me.
22:27So I was casting a major network show, and I had found a couple of day players, and it
22:35was a scene where they were in a club.
22:37And what I didn't realize at the time was that there were two actresses that knew each
22:42other, but did not like each other.
22:45Oh, classic drama.
22:46Did not like each other.
22:47Well, did not like each other so much.
22:50I was on set, and I was actually watching them.
22:53We stopped down, and they were like, what school did you go to?
22:56And there was a little bit of communication back and forth, and they got closer and closer
22:59to each other, and I was like, oh, no.
23:02So one of them threw a punch.
23:05Oh, my.
23:06And I had to get in between them, separate them.
23:10Oh.
23:11Yeah.
23:12I mean, there's, yeah.
23:12Wow.
23:13Yeah.
23:13That's, yeah.
23:14This was, this was, so TV.
23:16That's a good one.
23:17TV was the Wild West, where there was no format that was too crazy.
23:22And so, yeah, it was two actresses that knew each other from high school that didn't like
23:26each other.
23:27One of them stole the other one's boyfriend, and that's why we knew each other.
23:30It happened.
23:30And they did not let it go, and it sort of all culminated on set.
23:33It was just the craziest thing.
23:35The odds of them both being in the same movie and not even being in a show are so crazy.
23:38I know.
23:38I know.
23:38I mean, that's hilarious.
23:40Was anybody else like, wow, we should, like, film this part of this?
23:44Yeah, this is the BTS.
23:46I mean, no.
23:47Thankfully, I sort of caught it before it sort of got too big.
23:51But, yeah, it was, it's, yeah.
23:53That's so fun.
23:54You were, like, on set mommy, like, separating your kids.
23:57Yes.
23:57Oh, yes.
23:58Yes.
23:59Oh, my gosh.
24:00Casting actors are moms and dads.
24:01It actually is.
24:02They really are.
24:03It really is like that.
24:04And I think it's because maybe actor background and just caring, nurturing.
24:09Like, I always try so hard to be with all of my actors from number one to the last background
24:15actor and just make sure they're comfortable, make sure they're getting paid, make sure any
24:20questions they have get answered because I understand them and I really want them to
24:24just feel taken care of.
24:25And it breaks my heart because sometimes, you know, production can be crazy and there
24:29might not be food for them and they're freaking out about that.
24:31And, like, I don't know.
24:32I just really try to be a calming mom to all of them, you know?
24:38Yeah.
24:38I think being a voice for actors when they're on set and the director and the producer maybe
24:42are incredibly busy doing their own thing is sort of hearing from them at the end of
24:46the day and sort of giving them sort of the comfort and the understanding.
24:50It's like, yeah, you'll be good.
24:51If you have any questions, feel free to ask me.
24:52Like, anytime.
24:53Call me.
24:53Text me.
24:54Yeah, for sure.
24:55So I guess my horror stories aren't as wild as yours.
25:00No fights?
25:01But I mean, almost, if you honestly.
25:04That's a hard one to beat.
25:05It is.
25:05That is a hard one to beat.
25:06That's kind of iconic, too.
25:08So mine are more where I don't know if you guys experience this, but sometimes in the
25:13vertical space, some actors who have been doing it since they got popular, there are
25:18some egos going on.
25:19And so I know some actors who will direct offer always and then they're on set and then the
25:26way that they treat people is absolutely disgusting.
25:29And like this gets back to everyone, everybody.
25:32Everyone's talking about you in these moments.
25:35Yes.
25:35And it's it's really something that grinds my gears more than anything is when you're
25:42disrespectful to PAs, makeup artists, all these things.
25:44So I have some people who there's one person that comes to my brain where they they just
25:51will like throw this one story just makes my blood boil.
25:54They were getting their makeup done and they were eating Rice Krispie treats and they were
25:58throwing the Rice Krispie wrappers on the floor in the makeup chair.
26:01And then the makeup artist who's one of my best friends, literally, was like, oh, like,
26:07did you like leave that?
26:08And they were like, oh, no, like, you can clean it.
26:10Oh, you're joking.
26:11And all throughout the set, they were just so disrespectful to director.
26:17Even if director would ask them to do something, they'd be like, um, didn't you get it in the
26:21last shot?
26:23Don't know their lines.
26:24Read the scene right before.
26:25And I'm just like, I personally won't cast them in anything.
26:28Even when client asks for them, that's one thing I'm like, guys, I'm not going to cast
26:32them because I have so many people who they've disrespected that are close personal friends
26:37of mine.
26:37And here's another fantastic note for you actors.
26:41You never know who these people are and who they're going to be.
26:44So that makeup artist could be married to the head of a studio.
26:48Oh, yeah.
26:49Or that makeup artist could write a script, get it sold and remember you.
26:55These people, we remember everything.
26:57Everything.
26:57You may not think we do, especially sort of the bad behavior.
27:00Yeah.
27:00The punctuality.
27:01We remember that, but conversely, the person that comes on set, that's awesome to be with,
27:06that's fun, that's joking around, that's on time.
27:08We remember that equally.
27:10Yeah.
27:10And those are the people we call in.
27:12But yeah, that you never know that PA could get a, an overall deal at, at Netflix.
27:17Oh yeah.
27:18And you will never work for that person.
27:21Ever.
27:21Ever.
27:22Honestly, I feel like a lot of us can learn from this.
27:25Just be a good person and it'll, it'll get you more in life.
27:28Also, one note I want to add is sometimes when, for me, I'll reach out to talent that
27:35maybe has been a lead or number two or three.
27:38And I'm like, hey, do you by chance have any availability?
27:41Are you like free?
27:42Would you be down to do like a three day player?
27:44It's a really fun role.
27:45Like I know it's not lead, but it's still fun.
27:47If they're down and they do that, I remember that.
27:50And I'm like, they're the, they're such a good actor.
27:53They're so, they're helping me.
27:54And I love it.
27:56There's nothing I love more when there's an actor without an ego.
27:58That's like, yeah, I'm actually available.
28:00Like I'd love to go in and work and make a friend or something.
28:04Smart actors don't have egos because they know how the business works.
28:07You cannot have an ego and work all the time, really.
28:11Cause no one wants to work with you.
28:12Well, also our industry is so volatile for every department, whether it's ours, actors,
28:18the camera director, whatever it is, you could be the busiest person for a year.
28:24And every vertical, like back to back to back.
28:26And then it's like, okay, we got over you and you're not on set again.
28:30And then people are left with that Rice Krispie on the floor.
28:33Yeah.
28:34And like, I remember that.
28:36I'm like, I will not.
28:37Your career has become that rapper on the floor.
28:40Yeah, it is.
28:40You're a Rice Krispie artist.
28:42There's no, nothing left in there.
28:44There's some old ants in there now that are eating, licking it.
28:47Okay.
28:47Right.
28:47Yeah.
28:48Oh man.
28:49Okay.
28:50So anyway, I think we should talk about some advice for vertical talent, whether you're,
28:54you know, a heavy hitter in the verticals or if you're green and starting out.
28:59So what are some habits or skills that you see successful actors who book both vertical
29:04and major studio roles have?
29:07What's something in common that they, they share?
29:10That they're going back to always being prepared, always knowing their lines, always being a
29:15professional, right?
29:16Always delivering.
29:19Yeah, it truly, I mean, if you can knock it out of the park doing a vertical, everyone's
29:25going to notice.
29:26Truly.
29:26If you are in a vertical that's very successful and you do a great job and you are, you know,
29:30you do justice to the role that's been written for you, people will take notice, period.
29:35Yeah, I think, I think respecting the script, respecting the process and giving it your all,
29:42whether it's a vertical or a series on Netflix, treating everything with, with the respect and
29:49the knowledge that these writers spent a ton of time on this.
29:52The director spent two weeks scouting.
29:54So this is, it's a, it's a much bigger thing than, than just the actor.
29:58And I think for the actor to understand that and appreciate that and give, give each role
30:02the respect it deserves, I think those are, those are two things that are, are sort of
30:06identical between sort of the, the horizontal world and the vertical.
30:11What would you say to some actors who, I don't know if you experience this, I do because
30:16I'm on set with them a lot as an actor with them.
30:19And sometimes they don't know that I'm a casting director where I cast it.
30:22Which is iconic.
30:23It's honestly, I love it.
30:24Because you're like an undercover agent.
30:25No, I really am.
30:26And I love it because I'm sometimes like, I'm basically the client on set.
30:30So then even like, also, I do have to say people like me so much more than that.
30:34I'm a casting director.
30:35I have so many more friends, so many more likes on my photos, gifts, you know, I'm like,
30:41all right, you know, they're my gifts.
30:43I would love some gifts.
30:45Right, right.
30:47But I notice a lot of actors, especially kind of heavy hitters who've been doing it for
30:53a long time, kind of hate it.
30:56Or they're kind of just like talking down on it.
30:58Or they're just like, wait, they're just, they know that this is a temporary thing.
31:03And they really want to do like the big show, like their dream is to be on horizontal, be
31:07on a series and whatnot.
31:08But what would you say to some of those people who just like, kind of talk down on it and
31:13they don't like it?
31:14I think it's great to have those aspirations.
31:17There's nothing wrong with shooting for the moon, but sort of understand that it's a
31:20process, right?
31:22You're going to have to go through the motions, you know, trial and error.
31:25Um, I think just, yeah, you know, it's great to have that, that goal, but understand and
31:31appreciate where you are.
31:32Yeah.
31:33If you're working in this industry at all, it's a gift.
31:35My God, especially now.
31:36Yeah, it's true.
31:37It's true.
31:38It is a gift.
31:39Yes.
31:40Uh, understand and appreciate that gift because, you know, the more you're working, somebody
31:46else isn't.
31:46Right?
31:47Right.
31:47Oh, that's, wait, say it one more time.
31:49Yeah.
31:49So the more you're working, the other person, the other person.
31:52Oh, that's beautiful.
31:54Yeah.
31:55I mean, it's just be, be grateful because there's a lot of actors.
31:59I mean, it's just, it's, it's a challenging industry.
32:01Yeah.
32:02You realize, especially now.
32:04Exactly.
32:05Especially now.
32:06This is the craziest time in Hollywood ever.
32:09Like, ask anyone, ask anyone that's been an agent for 50 years at the top agencies.
32:14Everyone will tell you that right now, Hollywood is honestly the most difficult it's ever been
32:20to work.
32:20There's just not any work.
32:21It's a weird time with everything going on in the world.
32:24So like you said, yes, anyone that's working in any capacity in Hollywood, you are so lucky
32:29because there's not enough work to go around right now.
32:33You know what I mean?
32:34So yes, gratitude is a big part of all of this.
32:38For sure.
32:38For sure.
32:39That's beautiful.
32:40What should vertical talent take more seriously if they want to grow?
32:44What should they take more seriously?
32:46Well, I think it goes back to you talking about how some actors feel that it's beneath
32:50them.
32:51You know what I mean?
32:51Yeah.
32:51Because I get it.
32:52Like, we all want to be in Tarantino's last movie.
32:54Okay?
32:54Like, I totally, totally get it.
32:58But at the same time, these vertical shorts are real sets with real budgets.
33:02Everyone working on them is such a professional, especially because there's so little work on
33:08big budget things.
33:09Because they're hiring people that have these incredible, incredible credits to work on
33:13these vertical shorts right now.
33:15You know what I mean?
33:16So it's like, just do the work.
33:17Do the best work you can.
33:19You're going to get incredible footage for your reel doing this.
33:22Like, you're not going to get footage like this anywhere else for your reel.
33:26Just knock it out of the park and people will take notice.
33:29Yeah, I think that there's a huge misconception, especially with the actors just sort of dipping
33:34their toe into verticals.
33:35And this is what sets real short apart, is there's a budget for us.
33:40We treat our actors well.
33:42It's a fun environment.
33:43And one of the best things that's happened to me consistently over every show that I've
33:47cast for this company is I will get the nicest emails and the nicest text messages
33:52from actors saying, I had such a blast.
33:55This director was so much fun.
33:57This was such a great experience.
33:58I cannot wait to do more.
34:01And, you know, people tend to, actors tend to sort of group all vertical companies together.
34:05They do.
34:06And that is not the case in any way, shape, or form.
34:09I have heard horror stories from actors that I've cast for reel short productions that have
34:12told me about the other companies that they've worked for.
34:15And it is, it's night and day.
34:18It's night and day.
34:19So, you know, sort of understand, you know, kind of understand, you know, what these different
34:23companies are and what they offer.
34:24And, you know, it's, it's definitely, if you're thinking about it, dip your toe in, do it,
34:29get the, get the reel done and start auditioning.
34:33So I had this thought the other day.
34:36Um, I was, uh, um, what movie came on?
34:39The Intern.
34:40That movie came on.
34:41I was like, I'm going to watch this.
34:42And it was basically a vertical.
34:44And I was thinking so many people hate on the verticals.
34:47Like a lot of actors do that do them.
34:49Honestly, a lot of stuff that's professional is the same vibe.
34:55Okay.
34:55Can we talk about in Just Like That is literally a vertical short at this point?
34:57Oh my God.
34:58No, it is.
34:59Am I wrong?
35:00Yeah.
35:00Like it's literally a vertical short.
35:01It is.
35:01No, it, it actually, it fully is.
35:03And I'm, I'm a fan of the show.
35:04I watch it.
35:05I love it.
35:05Me too.
35:05My husband and I were watching it.
35:06I'm obsessed.
35:07We were both like, this is a vertical short.
35:09Yeah.
35:09Like literally, this is what it is.
35:10Yeah, the more I, the more I cast and act in verticals and then the more shows and, and
35:16movies that I watch, I'm like, they're very similar.
35:19So I don't think we should hate on them.
35:20I think we should be like, it's just another like leg of that in a way.
35:25Yes.
35:25It's just a different thing.
35:26And you know, I always, some of my husband was having a meeting with someone the other
35:30day and I was eavesdropping, but I heard him talking about, but this producer was saying
35:36like, look, when talkies became a thing, you know, when silent films just started,
35:39everyone was like, this is the end of Hollywood.
35:42No one wants to listen to movies with sound.
35:44And then when television became a thing in the 1950s, everyone was like, this is going
35:47to ruin movie theaters.
35:48No one's going to want to go to a movie theater because of television.
35:50This is just another one of these.
35:51Cause now the conversation is like, these verticals are ruining Hollywood.
35:55No one's going to want it.
35:55You know what I mean?
35:56So it's like, there's always, anytime there's a new form and artistic form in film that happens,
36:01everyone's like, oh, well, this is the end.
36:03Right.
36:03I guess this is, you know, this is the end of Hollywood.
36:05It's an evolution.
36:06It really is.
36:07It's just the evolution.
36:08Of what's come before.
36:10Also, the fans of vertical content are different than even like Euphoria or just like us, like
36:17all these shows, like the fans are diehards.
36:19The amount of people in my DMs who are like, I will live and breathe for you.
36:23Oh my God.
36:24Like, I'm like, that's a beautiful thing that you can experience with another person that
36:29just watches your work.
36:30Yeah.
36:31Oh God, I love it.
36:32Where do you see casting evolving in the next three to five years with verticals, this type
36:38of content, the Moby-sodes?
36:40Do you think that, I mean, this is a big question too.
36:42It's like, do we think that Hollywood is going to go back to standard, what we're used to and
36:49what people are craving and missing?
36:50Or do we think that it's going to be, this is the new way?
36:54I think it's going to be both.
36:55I think somehow the future is going to somehow be what's happening with verticals and also
37:00mainstream stuff because there's, there is a market for both.
37:03You know what I mean?
37:03We know that generationally there's a generational gap between the people that like to watch
37:06verticals and the people that like to watch those that are 30 minutes to an hour.
37:10Right.
37:10And those age groups aren't that far apart.
37:12So it's like, there's always going to be a market for those half hour, hour long sitcoms,
37:17dramas.
37:18But at the same time, these are coming so fast and they're so popular.
37:21I do feel like the future is somehow going to be integrating these in a way.
37:25I don't know if that means maybe they will make things in a way that they can be watched
37:29in 60 second increments as well as in an hour long.
37:33Like you can choose which way you want to watch it.
37:35You know what I mean?
37:36Like, I don't know.
37:37We'll see how it's going to work.
37:38Right.
37:38Right.
37:39And what do you think?
37:39Yeah, no, I mean, actually hearing that, I 100% agree with her.
37:43I think there's, there's a world in which they coexist peacefully and intertwined at certain
37:49points.
37:49Um, yeah, I think, I think once everybody sort of figures out where this is and where
37:55it's going, cause we're all sort of figuring this out because it's brand new.
37:58Totally.
37:59Um, you know, I think, I think it's, I think it could very easily go hand in hand.
38:02I mean, the, the, the, the horizontal world, like you said, is, is, is in such influx right
38:07now or is in such flux right now.
38:09Um, you know, it's, everything's downsizing.
38:11Everybody's trying to figure out what it is.
38:12And this is sort of rising from, from the very beginning.
38:15Um, yeah, I think, I think they'll find a way to, to coexist.
38:18Absolutely.
38:19Yeah.
38:19I feel like that's what the future has to be because people know that these are making
38:22billions of dollars.
38:24And that's what I keep telling people when people are like, ah, this is just a fad.
38:27I'm like, okay, well, if billions of dollars is just a fad, then that's quite a fad.
38:32Not mad at the fad.
38:33Okay.
38:33I'll take it.
38:34I'll take that fad.
38:35I want that t-shirt, not mad at the fad.
38:37Not mad at the fad.
38:38I love it.
38:39Hey.
38:40Right.
38:41For sure.
38:43Okay, guys.
38:43So I went on my Instagram and asked some of my friends, actors, fans, some questions
38:49that they want to ask you.
38:50So I'm going to get my phone.
38:51All right.
38:52And we can do a live Q&A with people.
38:56Somebody asked, biggest turnoff from actors while casting.
39:02I think they meant to write.
39:03The biggest turnoff from casting about actors.
39:07Like, what's the biggest turnoff that you guys see when you're casting?
39:10I feel like every casting actor probably has their own sort of massive pet peeve.
39:14Mine is just not being prepared.
39:15I would say mine is when an actor sends in a tape and you can tell that they had no desire
39:21to do this audition.
39:22Their agent just told them they had to do it.
39:24And they're just sitting there in front of their iPhone, just like not even really trying
39:27and reading their lines.
39:28I'm like, this is a complete waste of my time, of their time, of everyone's time.
39:32You know what I mean?
39:33And so that's my pet peeve.
39:34Oh, God.
39:34Yeah.
39:34Just don't do it.
39:35Just say you're on a veil.
39:36I know.
39:38Okay.
39:38This is a nice one, too.
39:39What makes an actor really stand out over another actor?
39:44I mean, I guess if there's like a lot of people up for the same role, something that
39:48really stands out is obviously if they are really ready in their performance, if their
39:52audition is really, really tight, if you can tell that they care, that they put effort
39:56into their audition is obviously nice.
39:59Right.
39:59I'll drill down on that.
40:00I think for me, it's in the eyes.
40:02I think when I see an actor perform a scene and I see the emotion in their eyes and I see
40:09where their eyes are directed, I think that's a big plus for me is sort of watching the scene
40:16play out in their eyes.
40:17I think that's, yeah.
40:20I'm piggybacking off this right now.
40:23So, you know, sometimes when you get self-tapes and they're clearly done at a professional
40:29place where an actor paid money to do the self-tape and do the lighting, do the editing,
40:34the whole thing.
40:35What's your opinion on that?
40:37Like, because people spend a lot of money.
40:38They spend a lot of money.
40:40I mean, we have some clients that are like in their 60s and 70s and like it's easier for
40:44them to just go somewhere and have them do it because maybe they don't have like the
40:47skills, the computer skills to do it.
40:49So like I get that.
40:50But at the same time, I've also booked people that are clearly just standing in their apartment,
40:56you know, without any good lighting.
40:58Like if your tape is good, that's all that matters.
41:00You don't have to have this whole professional setup, even though I know sometimes people say
41:04that they prefer it.
41:06I'm sure we've all cast people that have just had no setup and just done it in their apartments.
41:10Honestly, like 99% of the time, I'm booking people who don't do that.
41:15Right.
41:16Right.
41:16I don't know.
41:17Same.
41:17You know, casting director, casting doctor, they wrote.
41:21Do you purposely pick previously successful pairs from vertical apps?
41:27That's a good question.
41:28Say that again.
41:29So they're asking if you guys, if there's a successful show, whatever app it is, do you
41:35guys pick the couple from that one to book?
41:38Like, I personally, when it comes to that, I haven't, but I have seen that done where
41:43they're like, this movie did really well.
41:45We want these two to be in this one again.
41:46So like, I personally haven't made that call, but I have seen that call made.
41:51I'm incredibly competitive and I love going out and finding new actors.
41:55So like every once in a while, I'll be like, yeah, okay, we'll bring one on.
41:58But I think, you know, it's the, you know, there's a ton of scripts.
42:02It's good to be different.
42:03It's good to sort of mix and match and find new people and bring new people into this industry.
42:07So I, I have one or two, but I, I love, I love just going, going to weird places and
42:14finding actors and bringing them in.
42:18Oh my gosh, you guys, thank you so much for being here.
42:21I, I'm so excited to get to know you.
42:23Now I can call you whenever there's a casting issue and just get, get the tea on everything.
42:29Do you guys have anything else you want to say to some of our actors watching, some of
42:32our fans?
42:33Yeah.
42:34I mean, keep watching and, and get those tapes in.
42:36Like I said, you don't need an agent, don't need a manager, get us those tapes, audition
42:41and we'd love to get you on the show.
42:43Absolutely.
42:43Yes.
42:44You do not.
42:44This is a great time to be an actor because you don't necessarily need an agent or a manager
42:49to get on a vertical.
42:50So yes, work on those auditions, send me your tapes and hopefully we will see you in the
42:54movies.
42:55Thanks guys.
42:56Bye guys.
42:57See ya.
42:57See ya.
42:58See ya.
42:59See ya.
43:00See ya.
43:01See ya.
43:02See ya.
43:03See ya.
43:04See ya.
43:05See ya.
43:06See ya.
43:07See ya.
43:08See ya.
43:09See ya.
43:10See ya.
43:11See ya.
43:12See ya.
43:13See ya.
43:14See ya.
43:15See ya.
43:16See ya.
43:17See ya.
43:18See ya.
43:19See ya.
43:20See ya.
43:21See ya.
43:22See ya.
43:23See ya.
43:24See ya.
43:25See ya.
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