- 8 months ago
John Sikura, President of Hill 'n' Dale at Xalapa, joins the TDN Writers' Room for a candid discussion on the future of California racing and potential paths toward revitalization. Sikura also shares an inside look at current life at the farm, providing updates on everything from champion Thorpedo Anna to new sire Barnes.
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00:00keeneland every moment matters and welcome back everybody to the first edition of the
00:212026 thoroughbred daily news writers room podcast presented by our friends at keeneland
00:26hope everybody had a merry christmas and a happy new year i didn't i went to mexico and i got covid
00:33over christmas santa was not kind to me we know you like to go retro but covid i mean come on bill
00:41i think i got the el chapo strain by the way oh yeah okay i i thought you got other things when
00:47you went to mexico and drank the water i didn't know you would uh you would get covid i'm randy
00:53moss by the way with nbc sports i did not have covid over the holidays i did not go to mexico
00:58i stayed up here in snowy minnesota while zoe was uh traveling all around i was building an arc to be
01:05perfectly honest so he came on with first racing here yesterday was the first day it has not
01:10rained since christmas eve we've been absolutely flooded out here in southern california but no
01:16covid no covid whatsoever all right guys so as we start off 2026 let's do it on a positive note
01:24let's talk first about what makes us optimistic about the sport in the year ahead and we can jump
01:31around a little bit about this and i'll try to keep my remarks brief because i don't want to steal the
01:36thunder of my two respected colleagues but i think the thing that i'm most optimistic about
01:41is the fact that so many stars are returning to the racetrack in 2026 i mean the list is something
01:48that we literally haven't seen the type of list we haven't seen in many many years topped of course
01:54by sovereignty who will be named horse of the year coming up shortly journalism is coming back by asa is
01:59coming back forever young is coming back the japanese star won the breeders cup don't forget about
02:05tappan street who uh looks like he's going to have a very promising uh 2026 campaign and i'm also very
02:13excited about the opening of the new belmont park on september 26th it's something the new york racing
02:18association really needs and i think it's going to usher in a uh wonderful uh fall for our friends out
02:26at belmont park zoe that's a good list that's a very very good list and that gives me reason to be
02:32optimistic i think the bigger uh the broader spectrum of optimism would be that um fatalities
02:41are at an all-time low which is something we do need to see kentucky and new york are obviously
02:47booming the sales booming um field sizes are up for 2025 they were a little bit up we'll get to the
02:57downsides in just a moment but there's there's a lot of good things to look forward to this year in
03:022026 yeah when i looked at our rundown and saw that we were going to be talking about this
03:07you know the reasons to be optimistic this is going to sound terrible it's going to sound like
03:11a negative nelly but you had to think really hard in the state of the sport right now about okay what
03:17can i be really optimistic about so i think i'm going to sort of reframe that a little bit what i'm
03:22hopeful about right i'm hopeful that sovereignty and journalism and baeza and forever young all stay
03:30healthy that sovereignty stays in form that he continues to run the way he's been running
03:36i'm hopeful that sovereignty captures the imagination of the public i'm hopeful that
03:42even though the triple crown this year is probably going to be the most dysfunctionally organized triple
03:49crown in the history of the series with the preakness at laurel and the belmont at saratoga again
03:55that we get a you know another sunday so a sunday silence easy goer type rivalry or something to
04:03really to really get the public all fired up i'm hopeful that we don't have any um you know any big
04:10injury outbreaks that uh that we're all always on pins and needles about in this country um i'm hopeful
04:18that the opening of belmont park goes well and that it's everything that it looks like it's going to be
04:24you know i think they're i'm i'm also hopeful that the business aspect of thoroughbred racing
04:30continues to be stable okay it was up three percent last year in terms of average daily handle which is
04:38the most important metric more than total handle um yeah who knows how caw factors into all that we'll
04:46get to some of that later uh but i'm hopeful that that continues to to be uh to be stable as well so
04:51there are reasons i think to be hopeful i hope all right not to be debbie downers but we do have to
05:01talk about some things that make us pessimistic about racing in in 20 26 and um i don't want to
05:08steal anyone's thunder uh so i'll let myself go last uh because uh again i don't want to uh well
05:14our panel to trip over one another so i'll start with you zoe what makes you pessimistic about this
05:20sport in 2026 we'll hear from a brilliant interview with john secura a little bit later pessimistic i'm
05:27hopeful to get some help out here in southern california john pretty much said that everything
05:33there is to say about that um heiser has been great but it will be nice for them to unburden some
05:40of their massive um charges on other things other than smaller racetracks uh i would like to see
05:49every track in the country have no paid admission and hand you a program on the way in i think we
05:56shouldn't have people pay to come and see it you don't pay to go to a casino uh pessimistic something's
06:03got to be done about the caw wagering i know they're trying and we've made small steps toward
06:09it but it's driving out just the regular retail people handle was down apparently purses are down
06:16um maybe that's just around the whole country because i know they're not down in new york or
06:21kentucky so yeah a bit of a debbie downer there for me yeah ready purses are down in total purses
06:29yes because there are fewer racing days because of the contraction of the full crop and some tracks
06:35closing and all that they're they actually the average daily purse is like 350 000 it's up about
06:41three percent along with the total handle but unfortunately i think everyone involved in the
06:47sport would understand this when you look at the lists there are a lot more reasons to be pessimistic
06:54right now in the sport than there are to be optimistic it's just a fact it's one of the things we
06:58talk about all the time how can we turn this around how can john secure will have a lot or had a lot to
07:03say about it you know how can we get that train steaming in the opposite direction the caw thing with
07:09the horse players is huge and all i see are baby steps i i don't think the sport is serious about
07:16tackling that problem the fact that they've handed the caws the proverbial uh master keys to the treasury
07:24that nobody else has right because the racetracks themselves are owners of the caws okay so i don't
07:33think they're really serious about that um you've got hopefully god forbid this doesn't manifest itself
07:40in 2026 but you never know i mean they're right now are dark storm clouds over gulf stream park and
07:47san anita the you know arguably the two leading winter racing venues in the united states and two
07:54of the top racing venues period right i mean we've got to do something to try to turn that around
08:01south florida is going to be a huge challenge uh again the triple crown i mean you've got the
08:06preakness stakes this year and you can't do anything about it they have to remodel pimlico and they're doing
08:10that and three cheers to them but for this year taken alone the preakness is going to be a laurel um
08:18they're going to do the best they can laurel is in no way equipped to handle the second leg of the
08:25triple crown so they're going to do everything they can to make it as good as possible while
08:31pimlico is being rebuilt but you know you've got two of the three venues of the triple crown
08:37in other locations um and there's you could go on you could go on but you know please don't
08:45now i i regret going last you guys stole everything that i wanted to absolutely say
08:53but but randy i do want to add on to a couple things that you said first of all um in all due
08:58respect uh you and i read the equibase numbers that came out uh yesterday through a different somehow
09:04through a different lens and and i looked at the total handle being down 2.1 for the year
09:10doesn't seem like a big number but but six of the last seven years handle has fallen in this country
09:18according to the um the calculations i've done when it peaked in 2003 if you factor in inflation handle
09:24is down 57 the outlier was 2021 which doesn't count because it went against the covid numbers
09:31and i agree with you 100 the biggest problem and factor in this is the caw play and this is an issue
09:41that this industry has to start getting much more serious about fixing also want to add something
09:46about the triple crown and i do agree i mean maryland racing they're especially the new team
09:51they're trying very hard but but laurel is not going to be a good place but i also worry about the
09:56continuing and you and i and and so we've talked about this quite a bit on the podcast of the years
10:02i i worry very much about the continuing deterioration of the triple crown oh yeah
10:07yeah we sovereign to i i do not blame bill mott or godolphin at all for passing the preakness
10:14this is what modern horse modern way modern horses are trained but i'm telling you this horse would have
10:20won the triple crown if he had run in the preakness now i mean that's hypothetical of course but
10:24that's my opinion and it's sad to see that you know god only knows when we're going to see um you
10:31know horses of the major magnitude run in all three uh legs again especially as there does again once
10:40again doesn't seem to be uh any efforts underfoot to change the spacing of the three races from new
10:45york yes i i totally agree with that yes absolutely yeah happy new year to one and all the tdn writers
10:53room is brought to you once again by keeneland it's the start that sets you apart the marketplace
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11:39but not this time at keeneland january it's the place to be we'll be right back after this message from keeneland
11:46we do this so your granddaughter can work on a farm someday so the stands will still be packed
11:54in 50 years that's why we come to work every day obsess over every single detail
12:02because the story of racing is written one moment at a time and the future of our industry
12:11deserves nothing less keeneland every moment matters the fastest horse of the week is brought
12:19to you by the fast sires at one star farm and the sire we're spotlighting today straight no chaser
12:25there are fast horses and then there are championship fast horses and straight no chaser was chosen as
12:312024's eclipse award champion male sprinter after his victory in that year's breeders cup sprint he also
12:37won the riyadh dirt sprint in saudi arabia the san anita sprint championship and he ran six furlongs
12:42in a stakes record 108.27 to win the maryland sprint good for a 107 buyer all that is why his trainer dan
12:52blacker called straight no chaser the fastest horse he's ever been around and for that championship speed
12:58straight no chaser standing at one star for a fee of just ten thousand dollars now a friday first
13:07level allowance at oakland park would be an unlikely place to look for the fastest horse of the week
13:11but the four-year-old colt stiglitz continued his upward trajectory with a six and a half length victory
13:19friday running six furlongs over a track not particularly fast and 108.85 for a meyer speed figure
13:25of 107 stiglitz has had 15 starts but three races back at keeneland he ran a career i88 buyer he
13:33followed that up with a 94 at churchill downs and that set the stage for oakland and what almost
13:38certainly will be the fastest race he ever runs stiglitz the son of spun to run he's part of the
13:43eastern string of trainer phil damato he's owned by agave racing's mark martinez his longtime ownership
13:48partner robin hafos of rock and robin racing stables and evan trump
13:53now we welcome in our gainsway guest of the week and it's a formidable very important person in the
14:05industry it's john sakura the owner of hillendale farm at alapa and tons to talk about with you john
14:12but first of all i want to bring up a letter to the editor that you wrote recently for the thoroughbred
14:18daily news uh which you express your concern about the future of california racing it should be noted
14:24that others have that uh six california races including the kilro mile uh have been downgraded
14:30kilro went from a grade one to a grade two but but i have to play devil's advocate here um without
14:35them getting slot machine revenues which you know certainly doesn't look like it's going to happen
14:40what's the answer what's the solution well it's a hard hard question i i mean i think it's
14:49a multi-faceted approach i think in the short term we need first supplementation of graded stakes
14:58and you could argue well everyone should be self-sustaining and do it on their own but it's
15:05really not an argument that is valid or truthful because all of the racetracks now that offer these
15:11significant purses and you know they're married of grade one races and graded stakes you know let's
15:19be frank about it it it's only achievable because of the alternative revenue of either historical racing
15:26or casino so it's not like california has been inefficient they can't figure out what to do and
15:34everybody else is a genius you know the the windfall of of of this historical racing has been the answer
15:41kentucky and if anyone would doubt that turn the clock back 10 years ago would anyone be racing at
15:47turfway park did anyone race at ellis in the summer the answer is no and no so how do we go about remedying
15:55the problem i think there's few approaches the first one is short term because we need to fix it today
16:02and my idea was for the breeders cup to supplement these purses to work in collaboration with the
16:10greatest next committee to say we're in a different era you know when jimmy kilro and racing secretaries
16:18that were full professionals had to evaluate the quality of competition the opportunities you know
16:25their the doctrine was about quality and how do we ensure the credibility of these graded races and it was a
16:31real sort of significant and hard thought uh process now we have these short fields we have
16:40a lot of issues that are sort of a a consequence of vlt supplemented purses offered to only a few tracks so
16:51you know i'm going off tangent a little bit but i've always been a huge
16:58critic of the fact that the breeders cup keeps a hundred million dollars of nominators awards for
17:07quote a rainy day fund you know my joke was that you know if you think the flood was bad for the
17:13always art noah's ark in order to have a rainy day fund that needs a hundred million dollars we've never
17:20seen a torrential flood of of that epic proportion so that money well you know i might be a loner in
17:29the minority as far as my critique i don't believe the founders of the breeders cup um in their original
17:36statement and their mission was to have a hundred million dollars invested in this in the stock market
17:43and when you have current crippling issues in our business that are affecting the validity of
17:52you know breeding programs in states and maybe even the existence of some markets that money in my
17:59strong opinion should be put into use to help the thoroughbred industry and if there's a cause more
18:07important than you know the survival of california racing i'm not sure what it is and you know the
18:13original breeders cup founders had a purpose for generating money and supplementing purses at
18:23at racetracks around the nation and if someone doesn't believe that just look at the founding statement
18:29now the money doesn't go there and i think it's wrong and you know i i think to modernize
18:37the graded stakes committee and how they evaluate racing has to take that into concern now um you can
18:44set criteria you know what a second part of this is the proposal that i had made to to to the
18:52breeder's cup let's supplement the grade one races make them 500 000 each of them let's restore
18:58less virginous the sandy oaks other races to a grade one status have a moratorium on downgrading
19:06races for three years okay and for those three years that hopefully would give some time and a
19:12spark of enthusiasm to come up with the solution in california obviously it's a legislative one
19:18on historical racing there's challenges because of indian gaming etc and how do we tackle that i think
19:26the fact that that you have this boost you have this supplementation you have this bottom underneath you
19:32for three years really gives an incentive to somebody to try to work out a solution the industry is
19:37contributing uh there's a there's a sunset on this contribution they're giving us a chance to restore
19:46to renew california racing and here's what they've got done i think you can go to a legislature you can
19:52go to california breeders go to horsemen a lot of people say it's not just talk it's action and
19:57you know actionable solutions to recognize causes is what distinguishes the critic from somebody that
20:06wants to have a solution so you know if you look at this i was out for the sanita oaks the race was
20:12i think 200 or 250 000 plus they had a phasic tipton sponsorship it's a ridiculous purse for a major
20:21kentucky oaks prep and while they might not have eight nine ten horse fields try to beat the best
20:27horse in california any race a maiden race a five horse field you're not going to beat them
20:34california are arguably at least as good a quality of racing and horsemanship as anywhere in the nation
20:43has proven itself again and again and again i think it's an neglectful to just walk away and say good
20:50luck i hope they can figure it out because without historical racing we'd be facing the same problem
20:56if not worse in kentucky so you know we dodged the bullet everybody worked hard to pass legislation
21:03legislators well many were reluctant agreed to historical racing they opposed slot machines
21:09and were able to get something done so um you know i thought that was a viable um solution it's one that
21:17they haven't acted upon and i think they you know the response is well we think money is better spent
21:22somewhere else but um i would disagree with that fully i think that after 42 years of operation
21:30if the breeder's cup loses money in two consecutive years they're not doing a very good job i think that
21:37you know profit is an imperative of free enterprise system and you have to look at your expenses you have
21:45to look at how we run our business and the fact that we feel we have to invest a hundred million dollars
21:53because the dividends for that investment um offset our losses i think
21:58is evidence of it and inefficiency and a lack of nimbleness that you know an entrepreneurial
22:06approach would have versus a sort of quote corporate entity and you know i know i know that might sound harsh i know they're all
22:15good people and i'm not um disparaging any of them individually but i know in my business
22:22that if we lost money every year i would have a new direction i would have a change and if i could do
22:29something to promote the industry that sustains my business that would be my number one um priority
22:36and i i would take action and i i i would like to see a poll of members that contribute to the british
22:46cup i pay more than a million dollars a year between stay and fees and nominating fees do you think it's a
22:52good idea or do you agree with a hundred million dollars essentially being taken out of the business
22:59so that we can fund our losses i i think it's an indefensible position and i i don't like it and
23:07um i don't know that there's a lot of support for that but the british cup was founded with the idea of
23:15championship racing and contributing huge purses to ensure the best horses from all over the world
23:22compete and that we reward the very best horse and in my mind there's several categories where that is
23:30not being done john let me jump in here for a second because i want to bring zoe in on this
23:35conversation zoe obviously you are a california-based correspondent and and california racing means the
23:42world to you what do you think of what john has just said and what do you think of his ideas
23:45i think it's great i mean i'm not sure i could have said it much better myself to be perfectly
23:52honest the industry needs to stand up for california it's it's like we're on an island out here and
23:59and john i think you hit the nail firmly on the head i mean what would the landscape look
24:04like without california racing it's a huge industry and i don't think the rest of the country
24:10truly realize what california means to the industry as a whole
24:15yeah you know i i think like most things what's what's a jody mitchell song paved paradise put up
24:23a parking lot that happens at san nita i mean it'd be devastating to the business and just think of
24:30i mean i was at san nita last week two weeks ago whenever the opening day was um it wasn't raining
24:38the glory of the mountains the you know you you you can feel the tension you can feel the trepidation
24:46you can feel the uncertainty there that's very sad but in in all of that you still have a backbone you
24:52have a location you have a sense of history that doesn't really occur anywhere else in the nation and
24:59i think we i don't think i know it's hugely important and if someone says well that's
25:05california how much money california spends buying yearlings if that's your only consideration you know
25:12how much money california spends californians buying shares and stallions that they own farms here like
25:19it's it's hugely important and to the lore and history of our business it'd be like no more new york
25:25yankees you know we've changed our name and we've moved and you know these these traditions these
25:31memories of of the past are yes important but they're only important if we make them current
25:38and they're valid today if you're just looking back in black and white you know everybody's dead and we
25:43don't race there anymore it's really it's a shallow memory you know um and i i know the money is there
25:50you know i i sort of challenged in my my proposal to say i'll whatever you raise i'll raise the same
25:59amount of money in seven days i mean all major farms all major racetracks sales companies
26:05understand this issue so who has approached for example keelan and say keelan we want you to
26:12to sponsor the the pick pick pick the race the last virgin is it's 250 000 a year
26:20it's a three-year sponsorship same with phasing tipton what about kumar what about judma what
26:26about major racing what about stud farms the money is there to do it ourselves and again between the
26:33jockey club and the breeders cup i'd like to know maybe it's insular and it's not public
26:39what what are the funds that they have on account what are those funds doing for their business
26:49and do you feel you're doing enough or you should do more now they've championed heisa and i think
26:56it's hugely important from a reality point of view and more importantly probably from a a optic point
27:03of view that you know that we're making sure that horses are drug free that they're sound they're
27:08taken care of yes there's been some problems and implementation as expected because you can't go
27:13from no oversight to full oversight and not have missteps so i get that but all right now that's done
27:19let's move on to cause two to fix number two it's not you know that again i it sounded maybe like i
27:27was ungrateful when i read that they're they're having a stimulus program to take mares that have
27:33never been bred in two or more years or out of production for two more years and we're gonna
27:38waive your 265 uh registration fee and isn't that an unbelievable idea industry leaders quoted as
27:48saying this is brilliant and how like in perspective you put california on one side and you put this
27:56issue on the other how many more were you going to produce 60 more foals right and and what about
28:03california racing it's ridiculous to even think in the as far as severity and effect of the business
28:11that they could be even mentioned in in in the same breath you know and i think you alluded to this
28:16earlier john the the idea of the breeders cup supplementing stakes races is certainly not
28:22unprecedented we can all remember back in the late 80s and through the 1990s there were dozens of races
28:29around the country you you might have had the las virginis breeders cup stakes or the azari budweiser
28:36breeders cup stakes they were sponsoring races all over the place so it has been done before yeah well
28:43two things one those races were eliminated but there were breeders cup races all dispersed amongst all
28:51racetracks all over the nation to sort of show that we're all in this together and then secondly
28:57as i said founder statement that one of the purpose of of the breeders cup would be to take funds
29:04profits from the breeders cup and distribute to supplement purses and other racetracks and you know
29:11i would argue that the winning you're in the millions of dollars spent every year and winning you're in
29:16is a uh is a uh a gift to the wealthy who don't need the gift and if you're a true sportsman which is
29:25this is the business we have it's my horse versus your horse i don't need free admission for me to come
29:31and race my horse you know so uh i again personally if everything is great i understand we have such a
29:39surplus of funds we're even going to make it better we're going to say if you win you don't pay the
29:44nomination in a specific race but if you're losing money holding your event first of all that that
29:52for me i can't make sense of it you imagine the super bowl losing money this is our 42nd super bowl
30:02and we lost a million dollars yeah i think we've seen go ahead randy i think we've seen a glimpse of
30:09this uh if i heard correctly when bill introduced you he described you as formidable do you do you
30:17consider yourself formidable i wouldn't say formidable but you know i i i think i think you
30:24always do a disservice to your clients to your friends to your family if you're not candid and
30:31honest and a lot of people are maybe taken aback by someone who will express what they believe is
30:39a truth or what they believe is a concern but the viability of our business is about addressing
30:47what's not working what has to be more efficient what has to get better anyone that that you know
30:53just wants to quote be nice and not come up with a solution well you know look there look at kmart
31:02there's there's a lot of businesses are no longer in business and you know we face
31:08that possibility that we don't want to turn into a probability long term i mean how many people
31:15recognize third red racing how many people go to the races how many people bet on the races no you
31:21you're we have a we should have a quest to make our sport as relevant as possible social media all of the
31:31things that kids do and see making an easier bet on your phone making jockeys trainers people stars
31:38like if you can do it with the housewives of la i think you do it with thoroughbred racing you know
31:43i've you know i i've always thought that in order to get close you know it's an intimidating sport
31:49how do you bet what's a trifecta how do i do a wheel and like it's very the gambling all part of this
31:56business can be intimidating so um but let's make it easier so at the breeders cup again i'm not
32:03trying to single them out but i felt strongly that all significant races and particularly in the
32:09breeders cup that jockey trainer owner everyone should be mic'd up you should hear you know i brought
32:16marshall lynch to to uh the breeders cup and like a thousand people want to talk to him and sign
32:23his autograph and like officials will look at him like how did he get in the paddock like let's
32:29let's let's get real he has x millions of followers like you know we've tried to mic everybody up john
32:36and we're still trying and you wouldn't believe the resistance that we encounter and what the
32:41resistance is i mean at the indy 500 you listen to two guys from alabama talk about how the tires are
32:48and why we're running here we're hot and people are like glued to the television but you don't want
32:55to hear you know uh micropoli or baffert or like well you what why wouldn't you want to hear and see
33:04and feel feel part i feel like i'm in the paddock when i'm when i have have that access you know so for
33:11me the the intransigence to to to some of these things for me is beyond belief and it's it's probably
33:18why i i feel so frustrated about our quote institutions that i think are like cruise ships
33:26they're slow they're not nimble they don't turn and they'll listen to their customers
33:32it's back this week's edition of first things first and who should i talk to let me think
33:38how about nate newby the big boss at santanita park
33:43so nate it's not raining so yes i'm very excited to look up and see blue sky and no rain that's for
33:56sure talk about what led into the decision to push opening day originally because it wound up being a
34:03massive success yeah it turned out really well but obviously stressful when you see a lot of rain
34:09in the forecast and we know on the 26th it's such a big day you get so many fans that come out we
34:14really want to put on our best possible show and you know miserable weather and off the turf and all
34:20and all that plus 40 000 people in a in a building it's not this that's raining and kind of an older
34:25building it's not the easiest thing to pull off so we were happy to see we had good weather two days
34:31later the fans and everybody responded really well with the change we had over 40 000 people on tracks
34:36it's a great day on track and uh seeing santa nita on an opening day with 40 000 people is amazing
34:41it's the best energy and really started to meet off well i can attest to the fact that it was
34:46absolutely brilliant but what has happened in the interim then we got more rain mother mother nature's
34:52not being friendly right now but uh so we had to adjust there we lost some racing days we got some
34:57makeup days coming up so the good news is the next two weeks we see no rain in the forecast and we've
35:02got nine days of racing in the next two weeks so we go uh thursday through sunday this week and then
35:08thursday through monday with the holiday monday the following week so a lot of racing coming up and
35:12we're going to get it back what can patrons and horse players and fans really look forward to with
35:18this upcoming meet because i'm calling it upcoming because we've only ran about three days yeah we're just
35:22getting started and that's part of the thinking too is you know you pick your spots on when you
35:27want to run and want conditions to be good we have a six month meet a lot talking to a lot of the
35:32trainers you know they're getting to the point now where it's just you know you're going to pick your
35:36spots and in a long meet you want to run when the weather's good and the track is good and we're on
35:40the turf so uh we're looking forward to getting back to normal southern california great weather
35:45good racing at santa nita the turf the good news is the turf course looks absolutely amazing
35:50you know 10 11 inches of rain in the last two weeks and not being used that much it's a very
35:55happy turf course and it's ready to put on a good show for the next uh five and a half months
36:00thanks for your time nate always a pleasure thanks zoe
36:02many thanks to nate just a reminder that we will be racing a four-day week this week thursday friday
36:14saturday and sunday and then the following week thursday through monday for martin luther king day
36:21join us at the grace place we can absolutely guarantee some sunshine i promise you no more rain
36:28john can we switch gears and talk about um hillendale at alapa and torpedo anna i i just want to know
36:39what made you delve in and say to yourself i'm going to buy her and then once you got her a piece
36:46of her say i'm going to buy the majority interest in her and we're going to run her some more and then
36:53we're going to breed her what went into the discussions about torpedo anna well i initially
36:58heard that that there's a possibility she could be sold i was intrigued initially that the price was
37:06beyond what i thought was a commercially viable proposition was able to strike a deal and then
37:13how i bought more is have you ever been out you've had three drinks you know you have seven and say
37:20i was only going to have a couple of drinks and you said how did i do this and you know now that i was in
37:27you know the um you know 10 order decided to decided to sell his interest well you know it'd be hard
37:35take a stranger in as a partner on an investment of this significance of mayor of this importance
37:43and you know i bought more and you know we're here we are so you know try never to be fearful once
37:52you're in you're in and you have to figure out how to make it work and make the best of it certainly
37:57she's uniquely achieved i believe that she'll be champion older mayor this year was she as good as last
38:06year probably not but i don't see a viable alternative certainly i'm not making those comments to canvas
38:13for her but i think she's she's the most accomplished of of fillies and mayors this year you know we owned
38:20glorious song in the past and i've had not unanimous success but a lot of success with high-end mares we
38:30own you know better than honor who's the premier of the year so i think quality and uniquely accomplished
38:37mares uh have a higher incidence of producing sales horses steaks horses and you know it can be
38:44significant producers so now i was a huge fan of her thought that the way she would gallop to the front
38:51and keep on going and as brilliant as she was and you know you know i don't mean this a negative way
38:57but kenny was hard on her she danced every dance and she were he knew his his philly mare well because
39:03she always responded well i thought you just don't see mares like her she's sort of a a generational
39:11talent and you know some people had sort of knocked her pedigree and you know i owned the fourth dam and
39:17deep down her pedigree is you know a top root one of one of the most significant pedigrees in
39:23american stud books so um i think she has enough pedigree her performances is unique and she's a big
39:32pretty mare and uh you know we're going to breed a gun runner who's arguably one of the one two three
39:38very very best sires in the land so you know we're we're excited about it and you know you
39:44you never know the outcome there's a lot of uh uncertainty but the whole business is uncertainty
39:49and i've always tried to you know live my life john was it was it a hard decision for you you call
39:57yourself you are a commercial breeder how hard was it for you to go to gun runner and not your own
40:03stallion curling you know it was a bit of a debate but just looking at sort of 220 2025 alone and
40:15some of the trends and opinions of of of our partners who said let's let's breed the gun runner
40:21this year hopefully we'll breed the curling next year and um it's not a disrespect or comparing one
40:28horse to another but um uh we we thought that was that was our best chance and our best decision for
40:36for this year john um some great insights and we've taken up way too much of your time but there's one
40:42more question i have to ask you i guarantee it's going to bring a smile to your face tell us all about
40:47your son jess and the announcement that he has been appointed the new director of bloodstock
40:52and uh i would guess that he's uh perhaps the heir apparent at hillendale no free rides at hillendale
40:59no no there's not i i don't go on social media so i don't read comments because i just don't
41:07i don't read that stuff but some people had said oh that everyone else got passed by over
41:15your son and how are they going to feel and well there's two things i would say one there's no one
41:21else here that's in bloodstock other than me so he didn't pass over anyone and if i didn't think
41:27he was the best person for the job uh i wouldn't let him in the office um he he has a passion for the
41:35game he's great with people he's respectful he recruited and was solely responsible for many
41:43millions of dollars of our november consignment this year which made us the leading consigner for the
41:49second consecutive year at phasic tipton and uh i feel he's extremely bright hard working great with
41:57people and you know as we all have some sense of bias i'm proud of all of my kids and they all do
42:05their own thing and i'm sure they'll all be very successful but he i i think he was the best candidate
42:12for the job i think he's going to be immensely successful and yes my hope and thought is that
42:19that hill and dale will be a generational business conducted by you know you know sons of the founder
42:26and that we kind of have the word legacy i don't mean it to be arrogant i don't mean it that way but
42:34just people that have been here gen generationally you know my my father started in the business and
42:40you know took it to one level and you know my goal has been to take it to a next level and
42:46my hope is that one or more of my sons together will accomplish what i've accomplished and accomplish
42:52more on on their own you know my my youngest son's very interested he's a hockey player he's committed to
42:58play hockey at west point so he will uh he'll be tied up in in in serving and playing hockey for a
43:07while but he's he's very keen and up to date my middle son's a finance major he's got a major job
43:14at CIBC bank in wisconsin now and uh i i want him to come to the business as well but he wants to uh
43:22sort of pursue his own independence initially and and said god i want i i want to crave for myself if i
43:29come back i want to do it after i've explored all my other options and opportunities not uh just go
43:36work work for dad so just had the same opportunity you know he went away to school at millbrook in
43:42new york and he worked for todd pletcher you know he's waited tables he's he's a worker and i've said
43:49that i'm a good example where he can be limited in ability but have an unlimited work ethic and uh you
43:57know those are those are two things that make you a success in this country and you know as i'm proud to
44:03be here i'm a canadian by birth but you know essentially an american and lived here a long
44:11time and that's why i'm so passionate about the business the challenges that face us in that you
44:18know i've been lucky enough to have things beyond my wildest dreams and beyond my abilities and meet
44:26people you know vinnie viola and mike rapoli and bob baffert and you know terry green so many people
44:34i know that were i'm close with i wouldn't meet in any other business so how anyone is not vehemently
44:41defensible about this business and stand up and what can we do is uh you know i i uh that that's strange to
44:52me and and you know offensive to me and sometimes i probably maybe come across you know a little bit
44:59too uh i don't know if aggressive but it's really it's just it's just heartfelt that you know what look
45:07at what we're all doing and what we'd be doing if there wasn't for there wasn't a horse and you know
45:12the tdn itself as in my opinion it sounds like a plug you didn't tell me to say this the world's you know
45:19the greatest publication of our business it wouldn't exist it's always on tv and you know
45:26like everybody is doing things because of this business i think we have a responsibility to leave
45:32it better than when we came and if you're being objective and fair and you looked at the last 20-30
45:40years while we've been in the business we've seen a contraction we've seen a decline we've seen
45:47issues come up that have happened sort of on our watch now could we necessarily have done
45:54anything to affect some of these these challenges maybe yes maybe not but i i would i think fairly
46:03say that jockey club braiders cup certainly have a financial wherewithal and a sort of an appointment of
46:13authority either appointed by themselves or by the industry sometimes a little of both to say
46:21let's do something about it john i got one more question and sue i can see you rolling your eyes at
46:27me right now sue finley one one quick question if you could have dinner with anyone past or present who would
46:36it be in in the in the thoroughbred business any any single person past or present anyone
46:49oh that's a hard question i'd say leonardo da vinci
46:55that's inspired wow why
46:58he created things that timeless masterpieces all out of his own head and
47:13all right to be in the presence of that genius would be awesome but you you know you could add
47:20you could add many one's good one's good that's great guys we've taken up way too much of mr sakura's
47:27time no my time is good i don't want to take up your time it's okay you've been boring you're
47:32going to have the the least watched podcast in the history of of doing this i'm going to have more
47:39hate mail mail than i've ever received but i'm kind of used to it but but i think all my i would end it
47:47just by saying this i think all my criticisms are constructive i think when i when i point something
47:54out that i think is wrong it's my job to have a a solution or a suggestion and you can accept them
48:03you can reject them but if someone is a an honest critic they're not doing it be self-serving you're
48:08not doing it for publicity they're not doing it for financial gain it's how i feel thank you so much
48:15thank you absolutely brilliant yeah thank you thanks for having you john so much bye-bye guest
48:23of the week john sakura brought to you by gainsway a home of what they like to call the fab four if
48:29you're keeping score at home that would be mooth seize the grade charge it and tap it trice all
48:35second crop sires with their first foals hitting the ground in 2026 mooth was the only stallion to retire
48:42in 2025 with grade one victories as a two-year-old and a three-year-old in the american pharaoh
48:48and the arkansas derby respectively here in almost 1.6 million dollars and on the strength of that
48:54record mooth bred 185 mares in 2025 and mooth stands this season at gainsway for a fee of 30 000
49:02dollars say hello the single most important factor in predicting sire success is those who have
49:13consistent high class form and it's even enhanced if they have that form as two-year-olds as well
49:19by our calculations mooth has the number one chance of sire success of any of the 30 or so sires that
49:26retired to kentucky in 2025. he has the credentials that we're looking for when we predict sire's
49:33success the pennsylvania breeding program is the best program in the country the stallion awards the
49:41owner bonuses also the restrictive races and the stakes races for pennsylvania braids this year eight
49:47breeders are on track to earn over two hundred thousand dollars in breeders awards and two could hit
49:54the million dollar mark we have the best program in the country take advantage of the fantastic
50:01program that we have learn more at pabred.com among our long-time sponsors the pennsylvania horse breeders
50:08association the phba on december the 30th angie's reward won the 75 000 misbehavior stakes at parks
50:17for pa sired and bred two-year-old philly so congratulations are in order to her co-breeders
50:23win oaks farm and owner breeder warriors reward and as you might surmise from that angie's reward
50:30is a daughter of warriors reward meanwhile pennsylvania's 16th annual stallion auction will take
50:36place from january 12th through the 18th online on thoroughlybred.com as of today seasons are available
50:43for 63 stallions from pennsylvania and five other states we mentioned earlier the fab four at gainsway
50:50they're all on the stallion auction list and more stallions are being added daily you can see that
50:55current list of available stallions by going to pabred.com and clicking on the stallion auction
51:02link and you can address any questions you might have to brian sanfortello at 610-444-1050
51:10well some very sad news in horse racing just to begin the year diane crump who everyone i think who listens to
51:18this podcast knows was not only the first female ever to ride in a parimutuel race but also the
51:23first female ever to ride uh in the kentucky derby died uh after a long illness and uh by the way um
51:31again to toot our own horn um uh if if you haven't read td thornton's uh piece in monday's thoroughbred
51:38daily news not only about diane crump but about the pioneering jock uh female jockeys uh of her era
51:44it's a must read it is absolutely something that you have to but but zoe um i mean obviously you
51:51were the one that that i need to throw this to um you know she was well before your time uh but you
51:57in and of yourself were a successful female jockey you know how much do you how much do you well it's
52:04a stupid question because i know you respect them but you know tell us tell me your level of respect for
52:09diane crump and these women who who broke down these barriers to make it possible for the zoe
52:14cabins of the world to succeed absolutely huge without the likes of diane crump barbara joe rubin
52:23you know i i wouldn't be sitting here i wouldn't be talking to you guys and honestly td's piece in the
52:29tdn would have my vote for an eclipse award next year it is absolutely brilliant it tells the story
52:36a story that i hadn't heard about diane's first mount and how she originally wasn't supposed to be
52:43the first woman to ride it was supposed to be someone else and the jockeys all refused it's just
52:49a fabulous story ron turcott angel cordero refused to ride against diane crump and after the race that
52:58she finally got to run ron turcott came up and shook her by the hand which was lovely you've got a story
53:05about danny gargan the father now of trainer danny gargan offering to lend him her tax so she could
53:12ride unfortunately he was killed um as a young young jockey at the age of 31 i do believe but it is
53:21truly a fabulous piece to read and it just gave you a little bit more insight on how hard it actually
53:27was to even make the entry gate her first mount she never even got the bug weight because um
53:35somebody's wife said i want that girl on my horse and named her that morning she didn't even know
53:40about it so that was her very first mount just because the wife said hey put her on i'm gonna
53:46give her a shot i feel bad for her and honestly she was a very good rider she might not have won a
53:52thousand races i think she only won about 200 but back then that was still a lot and she could hold
53:58her own so kudos to her it's sorry that we lost her so early at 77 years young feel terrible for her
54:05family but she really was the absolute pioneer it's time for the work of the week the work of the week
54:12is brought to you by first tv it was tappan street the winner of the 2025 grade one florida derby he's one of
54:20the top candidates for the january 24th grade one pegasus world cup at goldstream he worked a half
54:27mile for trainer brad cox at payson park on saturday in 49 and three in preparation for the three million
54:34dollar race i do not think there is any way this horse could have looked any better or gone any
54:41easier he looked absolutely fantastic he's been sidelined for nine months after his florida derby
54:48win and tapan street returned to the races on december 19th with an allowance win as z1
54:54to 10 favorite we'll be right back after this message from first tv
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56:00so obviously this is the time of year that horsemen begin thinking about not just the
56:03kentucky derby but also the kentucky oaks and west point thoroughbreds and partners certainly have
56:08the oaks in mind for their breeders cup juvenile fillies winner super corredora she is at santa anita
56:14working toward the las virginis stakes on february the first but that's not all west point has
56:19another three-year-old filly to watch her name is counting stars who last month scored two impressive
56:25stakes victories in 13 days at oakland for trainer mark cassie the most recent being a six-length
56:31romp in the years in stakes at one mile her first race around two turns she's a daughter of honor ap
56:38in future weeks of course we will keep you up to date on those fillies and other west point thoroughbred
56:44stars
56:49well once again we want to thank uh i want to thank my team uh it's so good to be back with
56:54zoe cadman and randy moss i want to thank john sakura our gainsway guest of the week also want to
57:00thank the people that work behind the scenes to make this show go and they do a fantastic job
57:05that's sue finley katie petruniak anthony larocca and alia larocca once again happy new year to
57:10everybody and let's hope that 2026 is in fact a very good year for the sport of horse racing that
57:16we all love talk to you guys next week
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