00:00if you think the administration acted correctly last weekend?
00:03Well, I think it was the right thing to do to begin the process of getting the Maduro regime
00:09out of power and turning the government of Venezuela back over to the people. There's
00:14no doubt that in 2024, as in 2018, Maduro stole the election. The opposition had won
00:23legitimately and really are the legitimate government of Venezuela. But I think we've
00:29removed Maduro, but the regime is still there. There's no regime change at this point. And I'm
00:35very concerned that the way the president attacked Maria Corina Machado, the leader of the opposition,
00:43said she didn't have respect in the country. Really, the opposition wasn't up to governing
00:47and turning to the likes of Delce Rodriguez and really Maduro's henchmen and henchwomen who are
00:55still there and believing they're going to be a transition. It puts us in a very difficult
01:01position. I'm worried that we've removed the face of the regime, but not the regime itself.
01:07Right. Yeah. Well, to that end, I know that you had concerns about Maduro in the president's first
01:13term. And we did a little bit of digging on this, having had sat down with Maduro. My colleague,
01:19Eric Schatzker, in 2021, traveled to Caracas to talk to him about global politics. And Maduro
01:25said at the time he was in talks with the first Trump administration with you, John Bolton, around
01:30a meeting at the U.N. General Assembly in 2018. Maduro specifically implicated you as having
01:37canceled that meeting. Listen to what he told us in 2021. I was about to personally meet him on
01:45September 2018 with President Donald Trump when I went to the U.N. General Assembly in New York.
01:51We got a call from the White House, but we knew about John Bolton's pressure and that of other
01:56people around Donald Trump to prevent his attempt to meet me. If we had met, it had been a different
02:00story today. John Bolton, is that true? And to what extent, if so, did that moment inform Donald
02:08Trump's views on Venezuela today? Well, I wish it were true. I wish I could stop meetings like that
02:15that easily. But he's making that up. But it's a good story. So if he wants to believe it, let him
02:22tell that to the court. Ambassador Bolton, if we're looking at what is going to happen next here,
02:30there's a lot of different messaging, a lot of different rhetoric. We hear from President Trump
02:34that the U.S. is going to run Venezuela. But if we look at what other advisors are saying, we keep
02:39hearing the idea that there's a lot of leverage points here by the U.S. The embargo on oil, the
02:44military armada poised, still potentially pointing at Venezuela. Do you think that the U.S. has enough
02:50leverage to make change in Venezuela from afar through these kind of pressure points? Well, I'd like
02:58to know what the plan is, if that's what they think they're going to do. I'd be the happiest
03:03person around if the rest of the Maduro regime collapsed tomorrow. But when you hear from the
03:09administration, the usual anonymous sources, that they think they can work with Delcy Rodriguez
03:14to transition to something, I don't know what the something is, and that the Venezuelan oil industry is
03:22just going to emerge from the ashes and suddenly be a big producer again. I think people are dreaming.
03:29I think this is a very difficult and dangerous situation. I think that the administration has
03:34acted in an ad hoc, day-to-day fashion. That doesn't guarantee failure. But let's be clear,
03:41if the objective is to turn Venezuela into a society where its people actually govern it,
03:48and maybe that's not Trump's intention. But if that is, they're a long way from it. And anybody
03:53who thinks the Venezuelan oil industry is going to emerge from the ashes in a matter of weeks or
03:58months or even a couple of years doesn't know how bad the situation is. So then what is it going to
04:05take to help fuel that turnaround? Because we have reporting, as we mentioned at the top of the show,
04:10people familiar are telling Bloomberg News that part of why this White House thinks that it can work
04:15with Delcy Rodriguez is because she could serve as that bridge between the government and the private
04:20sector, because it seems like there has to be such an emphasis on potential investment and rebuilding
04:26the infrastructure in order for Venezuela to get on sound economic footing.
04:31Well, I don't know what they what they base that on. And I'd like to know what CEO of what major
04:37American oil company is just getting all of his top advisors together to get on a plane to go to
04:43Caracas and put billions and billions of capital expenditures into Venezuela. The political situation is
04:51unstable. By the way, the price of oil is still at fifty five to sixty dollars a barrel. I'm not I'm not sure
04:57anybody thinks that more capital investment, more drilling, more oil on the market is going to benefit the oil
05:03companies at this point. I think there's a lot of hot air out there about what's going on. And that's dangerous because if
05:09your planning is not based on reality, when reality finally strikes, you have no plan B to back up to.
05:17You mentioned Maria Corina Machado. She turned up on Fox News last evening, of all places, on the Hannity
05:25program, presumably to get the attention of Donald Trump. Here's what she said.
05:29I'm planning to go back to Venezuela as soon as possible. As I've always said, Sean, every day I make a decision
05:36where I am more useful for a cost. That's why I stayed in hiding for over 16 months. And that's why I decided
05:43to go out because I believed that at this moment, I mean, I mean, more useful to our costs, being able to
05:50speak out from where I am right now. But I'm planning to go as soon as possible back home.
05:55She's talking about sharing her Nobel Peace Prize somehow with Donald Trump. Could she be a partner
06:02or has the administration turned away from her permanently? Well, I think they damaged her and the
06:08opposition very badly on Saturday. I think the opposition, just ordinary people inside Venezuela
06:15wonder what it means when the U.S. doesn't trust its leadership. Now, maybe she can work her way back
06:21into his good graces. My recommendation would be giving the Nobel Peace Prize medal that you get.
06:27The Nobel Foundation can make another one just for you, but give it to Trump. Otherwise, you know what
06:32he's going to do. Theodore Roosevelt won the Nobel Peace Prize for mediating the war between Russia
06:37and Japan during his term as president. And his Nobel Prize hangs on the wall of the Roosevelt Room
06:44and the White House. I've been worried recently, Trump's just going to take it off the wall so he
06:48can have it for himself. So Mrs. Machado gives him hers. Maybe that'll take care of that.
06:54Wow. We also want to talk about potential ripple effects here. What could come next when it comes to
07:00other countries? And I'm actually particularly interested about the potential impacts for
07:04China, of course, a huge importer of Venezuelan crude. But China's made a lot of significant
07:08inroads when it comes to Latin America signing on signatories to its Belt and Road Infrastructure
07:14Initiatives. Could this hurt Beijing's efforts to make those inroads in Latin America? How is this
07:21changing the calculus in terms of the U.S.-Beijing competition? Well, I think the most important
07:27American strategic interest in Venezuela is the increasing influence of malign foreign powers
07:35that don't have the best interest of the United States at heart. That certainly starts with Russia
07:40and Cuba. That was the main problem back in 2018 and 2019. But Iran and China are big players on the
07:48sea now. And as you say, China has an enormous concern with Venezuela's oil reserves and its production.
07:57The Chinese look for oil wherever they can find it. They're an energy poor country whose economy
08:03depends on getting these foreign sources. And by most estimates, including the estimates of the U.S.
08:10government, Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world, more even than Saudi Arabia. And yet it
08:16produces an insignificant amount of oil. Of that oil it produces, China buys about 80 percent of the
08:24production, according to the most recent statistics. So I don't think Beijing is going to sit idly by
08:29while a new government comes in that may be more hospitable to American investment and possibly
08:36exclude China from the Venezuelan reserves. So what China is doing behind the scenes, we don't know.
08:43There were high-level Chinese meeting with Maduro literally within a day or two of his being grabbed
08:49over the weekend. And what policies China is pursuing, what aid it may be giving to what remains of the
08:56Maduro government, what Russia and Cuba and Iran are doing, we don't know. But I don't think they're
09:01just going to withdraw quietly from the scene. Well, you know, as we consider what many are now
09:08referring to as the Dunro Doctrine. John Bolton, I wonder who you think should worry more right now,
09:14Greenland or Iran? Well, I think Iran should be more worried, given the protests which continue to
09:23grow all across Iran, not just in Tehran. This regime in Tehran is very weak. And I think the levels
09:30of discontent in the country have never been higher. And the world would be a lot safer if the regime of
09:36the Ayatollahs fell and you could get some kind of alternative, hopefully, free government in Iran.
09:42I think what Trump says about Greenland and his interest in taking control of Greenland is very
09:51harmful to the NATO alliance. You know, Greenland, part of Denmark, is a NATO ally. Denmark's been an ally
09:59of the United States for years. And you have advisors to the president saying on national
10:06television that Denmark's claim to the island is illegitimate and nobody will oppose American
10:13force if we decide to use it. If we did, it would destroy the NATO alliance. But even this chatter is
10:20irresponsible, isn't taking into account the real threats we face in the United States. We have a
10:26legitimate security interest in Greenland. So does the entire NATO alliance. And if we just
10:32took this out of the spotlight and work cooperatively together, I think we could
10:36ensure greater security, not just for Greenland, but for the entire alliance.
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