- 1 week ago
This edition of India First focusses on escalating violence in Bangladesh, where 11 Hindus were killed in 35 days.
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00:00Good evening, there are very worrisome reports that are coming in from Bangladesh, barely a fortnight after he wrote, my birthplace has turned into a valley of death.
00:12Sharath Chakravarti was shot dead in Bangladesh yesterday and he's the sixth Hindu to be killed in the past 18 days and the second in the past 24 hours.
00:22Rana Pratap Bairagi, a journalist, was not only shot in the head at point-blank range, the killers then also went on to slit his throat.
00:32So what's that chilling message for Hindus in Nobel laureate Professor Muhammad Yunus' Bangladesh?
00:39That's our top focus on this special broadcast.
00:49Terror reigns in Bangladesh.
00:5211 Hindus killed in 35 days.
01:11Hindus lynched, shot, burnt alive.
01:17Yunus government mute, fails minorities.
01:20Protests from France to Nepal.
01:37Concerned India demands action.
01:39Hindus unsafe under Yunus' watch.
01:49That is our top focus on India first.
01:52The cases are so gruesome, we urge viewer discretion.
01:59Hindus are being singled out and killed.
02:02And each killing perhaps sends out a very chilling message.
02:05Be it Deepu Das, who was caught, beaten, hung from a tree and then burnt alive.
02:11Or Ranaprata Bairagi, who was not only shot dead at point-blank range, then the killers went on to slit his throat.
02:18There have been more than 2,900 cases of either targeted killings or arson, crimes against Hindus, Buddhists, Christians and other minorities, including crimes against women and land grab.
02:31All since the takeover by the Yunus regime.
02:36The question we're asking here is worse in stone.
02:40We debate.
02:41Coming up at 8.30 tonight, it's a huge blow to the MK Stalin government in Tamil Nadu.
02:47The Madurai bench of the Madras High Court comprising Justices G. Jai Chandran and K. Ramakrishnan upheld the order permitting the lighting of the Karthigai Deepam at the Deepathun Stone Pillar atop the Thirupanda Kuram Hill.
03:02Now, the division bench held that Justice G. R. Swaminathan's earlier direction did not create any new religious practice, but merely enabled the exercise of the existing right on temple-owned land.
03:17The MK Stalin government now intends to take this order and challenge it in the Supreme Court, prompting Union Minister Piyush Goyal to call out not just the DMK, but the larger India alliance as anti-Hindu.
03:31We get that at 8.30 tonight.
03:33I'm Gaurav Savant.
03:34As always, let's get started with the headlines on India First.
03:44Provocative Kabr Khudegi slogans at the prestigious Jawaharlal Nehru University.
03:50Hours after no bail to right accused Umar Khalid and Sharjil Imam.
03:55Modi Shah ki Kabr Khudegi slogans chanted.
03:59Jawaharlal Nehru University Students' Union calls it an organized attempt to defame the university.
04:13Supreme Court hits out at the pollution body over worsening air quality in Delhi.
04:18Deviks the CAQM to form a panel of experts to determine the cause of pollution and solve the problem.
04:31The Central Bureau of Investigation summons actor Vijay in the Karoor Stampede case.
04:37CBI summons Vijay on the 12th of January.
04:3941 people had died in the Stampede at Vijay's Karoor Rally.
04:49Trouble mounts for Vijay's film, Janan Ayagan.
04:52The film set to release on January 9th.
04:54But no nod from the Censor Board yet.
04:57Madras Eye Court has now asked the Film Certification Board to respond.
05:02Matter to be heard again tomorrow.
05:04Health care for all remains a myth.
05:11Health care is still a luxury for the poor.
05:14Eye-opening India Today reality check on how Ayushman Bharat's scheme is not being implemented effectively.
05:23There is a worrisome surge of targeted killings of Hindus and other minorities in Bangladesh.
05:39From Sharath Chakravarti to Ranaprata Bairagi and from Bijendra Biswas to Khokond Das.
05:45They've either been shot at, hanged, lynched, throat slit, killed in various ways.
05:51Now, are these random killings or killings that are aimed to send out a chilling message to the minorities?
05:57The media has been targeted in Bangladesh.
06:00Cultural centers have been targeted.
06:02And with elections just about a month away,
06:04are all these killings aimed at polarizing the electorate and show Hindus and other minorities their place?
06:12What's the bigger game plan we explore?
06:15Eighteen days, six Hindus brutally killed.
06:26From lynching to shootings and one even burnt alive.
06:32What is unfolding is simply put, targeted terror.
06:37Two brutal killings were witnessed on Monday.
06:40One shot dead in cold blood, the other killed by a mob.
06:46In nursing district, a Hindu grocery store owner, Mani Chakrabarti, was attacked inside his shop.
06:55Eyewitnesses say assailants struck suddenly.
06:58Mani was rushed to hospital, but died on the way.
07:02And in another crowded marketplace in Jaisor district, Hindu youth, Rana Pratap Bairagi, was shot dead in broad daylight.
07:13Rana died on the spot as attackers vanished into the crowd.
07:18These are just the latest in a series of attacks.
07:21On December 31st, Khokhandas was stabbed and burnt alive.
07:29On December 29th, Bajendra Biswasa, factory worker, was shot at work.
07:35On December 24th, Amrit Mandal was lynched by a mob.
07:40And on December 18th, Deepu Chandradas was attacked by a mob, beaten, hanged and burnt.
07:48Law and order has collapsed, and the interim government led by Mohammed Yunus appears either helpless or complicit.
07:58In India, anger is grown.
08:01There are rising calls for diplomatic intervention and international pressure.
08:05Being Hindu in Bangladesh has today become a risk to life.
08:30With extremists emboldened, law enforcement paralysed, and a government under question.
08:37The safety of minorities in Bangladesh is the biggest question.
08:43Bureau Report, India Today.
08:45How should one see this systematic targeting of Hindus in Bangladesh?
08:55Is the Professor Mohammed Yunus administration unwilling or unable to stop these targeted attacks on Hindus and other minorities from lynchings to land grabs?
09:05Can a certain ecosystem get away by saying the problem is not of one country alone, but of an entire region?
09:12Or are certain intellectuals actually giving cover fire to radical Islamists gaining ground in Bangladesh?
09:19Joining me on India first, Shafkat Rabhi is a political columnist in Bangladesh.
09:25He's the founder of Centrist Nation, joins us from Dhaka, Ambassador Veena Sikri, is former Indian High Commissioner to Bangladesh.
09:32Abhiji Tayyar Mitra is a senior fellow at the IPCS, General KJS Dhillon, is former Director General of India's Defense Intelligence Agency.
09:41Shafkat Rabhi, there is considerable concern in India, sir.
09:45How are these killings being seen in Bangladesh beat Ranaprata Bairagi or Sharad Chakravarti?
09:54So thanks for bringing me back.
09:56Some of these incidents are definitely very, very concerning.
10:01And right before the election in Bangladesh, there is a trend where violence historically has been there.
10:09Not to say it's good, I'm just saying statistically, right before election, Bangladesh goes through some phases.
10:17And this government being an interim government, and on their 18th month almost, or 16th month, they have also lost some semblance of control.
10:27So they are in control, but there is a lax control situation in law and order, and that is also known in Bangladesh.
10:33And many of the student leaders and the opposition have been voicing concerns against the current, you know, the person in charge of law and order, who is the home minister.
10:45So there are certain aspects of declining law and order situation.
10:50I would not call it communal.
10:52That would be the only thing I would let you guys know that I, based on the news reports that I read...
11:03It is violence as a proportion to the overall population increases during the election time.
11:11So you need to isolate how...
11:14Because of declining law and order situation during election time.
11:18It is a common history, unfortunate history, that happens in that part of the country, in that part of the world.
11:24Before election, law and order breaks down a little bit.
11:28I mean, Ambassador Veena Sikri has been in Bangladesh.
11:30She may also recall from the prior election cycles.
11:33So that aspect is there.
11:35I haven't read much about targeted Hindu killing, but there are targeted killings that are taking place.
11:41A lot of Muslims are also dying.
11:43And law and order, I mean, you know, is in a little bit of a bad shape right now.
11:49And that is customary of this time of the season.
11:52Let me bring in Ambassador Seekri.
11:54Ambassador Seekri, our friend from Bangladesh, you know, Shafkat Rabhi says that it's not communal violence.
12:00It's not targeting of Hindus.
12:02There's a cycle of violence before every election.
12:06So can this be dismissed perhaps as political violence?
12:10Is this political violence?
12:11Is this a regional issue or is there more to it than meets the eye, ma'am?
12:19This is targeted killing of minorities.
12:22Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, even Supris and Ahmadiyyad.
12:26It's the worst ever since 1971.
12:29In 1971, this targeted killing.
12:32And yes, in addition to the minorities, they're also targeting women.
12:36Women are in a very bad way in Bangladesh.
12:38So in 1971, this killing took place for nine months, right?
12:42Targeting the intellectuals, targeting the minorities, trying to push them out of the country.
12:47But this time it's 18 months of unrelenting killings.
12:51And nobody in Bangladesh, I mean, to be so blasé about killings and the kind of killings.
12:57And everybody knows now more and more reports are coming that it is so communal that many of these killings have taken place
13:04because Jizia, Jizia tax is being collected from these people.
13:08From the minorities.
13:10And when they cannot pay, they are being shot dead.
13:12In the last two or three killings, especially in the marketplace, the killing which you were describing,
13:17it is known because the people, his own family said, yes, they're coming and demanding Jizia tax.
13:22Amrit Mandal was defined as an extortionist.
13:24But it's known that he's being asked for Jizia tax.
13:26So I think this kind of being so blasé about it is shocking.
13:31And we know that the Bangladesh media is completely controlled.
13:34That's the third thing that happened in Bangladesh from August last year.
13:38The first was the attack on the Avami League and all its, wherever, you know, Sheikh Mujib or Sheikh Hasina's name was mentioned.
13:45The second was the attacks on the minorities, unrelenting till today.
13:48And the third was the attack on the media, also unrelenting till today.
13:52They're controlling all the media houses.
13:54And even this burning, there's so many stories about why this was burned.
13:57Maybe Prasam Halu published a survey saying 70% of the people want Avami League to participate in the elections or something like that.
14:03So let's take this step by step, ma'am.
14:05You've raised some very pertinent points.
14:07And before I bring in General Dylan and Abhijit, I want to bring in Shafkat Rabbi once again.
14:13Sir, Hindus being asked to pay a tax just to live, Jizia was there in the times of cruel Mughal emperors like Aurangzeb and even before.
14:24But for that to happen in 24th, 21st century world sounds very bizarre.
14:30It would happen in something like an Islamic state or it's happening in Bangladesh under Muhammad Yunus' regime, sir.
14:38Yeah, it sounds very bizarre to me.
14:40I would like to hear the source of that information from Ambassador Seekry.
14:44It's come in all the media.
14:45It's come in all the media.
14:46It's an open interview.
14:47Which media, ma'am?
14:48It's an open interview.
14:49Which media?
14:49I read the Bangladeshi media as well.
14:52Yeah, yeah.
14:52Jizia tax, Jizia tax in Bangladesh, where did you find that information?
14:58It is there all over the place.
14:59Please talk to anybody.
15:00I understand.
15:01Bangladesh journalists have written about it, sir.
15:02It's on social media.
15:04Right.
15:04So, look, I'm a Bangladeshi journalist as well.
15:07I do not write any credible media.
15:10No, so are you saying the editor of Blitz is not credible?
15:14He's written that in his social media platform that Hindus are being asked to pay a tax.
15:19If that is truly the case in Bangladesh, you know, instead of trying to brush it under
15:24the carpet, should it not be a cause for grave consult?
15:28Look, I'm not here to...
15:29As a journalist, I'm asking you.
15:31Yes, sir.
15:32I'm not here to defame anybody, but you need to know a little bit more about the Blitz, okay?
15:37But why don't you...
15:38There is no credible information on GGR tax in Bangladesh.
15:42Publish a denial.
15:43Why don't you publish a denial?
15:44Come on, I mean, let's not be so blasey about this.
15:48I mean, shocking.
15:48You know what people are saying in Bangladesh?
15:51They're saying, and we do know that when the trials for the 1971 war crimes were going
15:55on, many judges said, comparing it to the treatment of the Jews by the Nazis.
16:01And that was nine months.
16:02Today, 18 months.
16:03If this is not a genocidal attack, it has to be compared to the treatment of the Jews
16:09If you are calling this genocide, then a genocide is taking place in India every week.
16:15Please be grounded in your statistics.
16:17I can tell you, in India, let me tell you, we are very confident of our own...
16:19Please be grounded in your statistics.
16:21Whether it is a judiciary...
16:23No, please do not.
16:25Do not compare yourself with India at all.
16:27Every event in India, whenever it happens in a country of such a large country, there's
16:32a judiciary, there's a media which covers it and takes it threadbare.
16:36So is the case in Bangladesh.
16:39No, unfortunately, that's not happening in Bangladesh.
16:43So let me bring in Abhiji Tayyar Mitra.
16:44Let me bring in Abhiji Tayyar Mitra.
16:47You know, because it's not that anybody's targeting Bangladesh or vilifying Bangladesh, sir.
16:54The effort is only to ensure that minorities are safe.
16:58You know, Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, other minorities, they're safe in Bangladesh and
17:03everyone lives in harmony.
17:04But Abhiji Tayyar Mitra, is there a more sinister message for Hindus and other minorities in these killings
17:12in the past 18 months, sir?
17:14Not just in the last 18 months, Gaurav.
17:17In the last 70 years.
17:20You see, every single time something goes wrong out there, Hindus are the first to be killed.
17:24Let's not pretend partition happened.
17:27You know, partition didn't happen between mutton eaters and fish eaters.
17:31Partition at least in Bengal.
17:34It happened between Hindus and Muslims.
17:37They weren't going and deciding if you, they weren't killing each other basis of if you put onion in
17:43Machir Jhol or you don't put onion in Machir Jhol, you know.
17:46So much for Mr. Rabhi's flippancy.
17:49Let me quote.
17:50He wanted a specific quote.
17:51I'm quoting.
17:52Bappadita Bashu, Assistant Organising Secretary of the Central Executive Committee of the
17:56Bangladesh Hindu-Buddhic Christian Unity Council and a family friend of the deceased,
18:01alleged that Mani was threatened and extorted in the name of Jazia tax before he was brutally murdered.
18:06This is the news item.
18:07Sir, you may not have read it, Mr. Rabhi, or perhaps you didn't want to read it.
18:14No, no, it is deliberately not reading it.
18:19He only reads what he wants to.
18:20That's a different matter.
18:22You know, Bangladesh is also a thing.
18:24But we need to remember, during 1971, what did the Hindus do that they were slaughtered,
18:30massacred and driven out of Bengal?
18:32It is the same people doing it then as they're doing it now.
18:35The same Jamaat-e-Islami who were the Razakars in those days, who are all kushi-kushi, kisi-kisi,
18:40pally-pally with Mr. Yunus.
18:43They are the exact ones doing it today also.
18:46Remember the first thing that Muhammad Yunus and his illegal government did when they came
18:50to power was to release all these lunatics from jail.
18:53Why do you think Sheikh Hasina had thrown all of them in jail in the first place?
18:57There were people who were convicted of transporting explosives to be used in India, who were let
19:04out of jail.
19:05No, nothing done.
19:07This is a criminal government.
19:09It is a government by, for and of criminals that has been externally foisted upon Bangladesh.
19:16They have created an environment not just that is permissive to these deranged Razakars.
19:22They are not deranged.
19:23They're actually very smart.
19:24They're doing it deliberately out of their faith and out of their beliefs.
19:27It's very deliberate, General Dylan.
19:29It's very deliberate.
19:30You know, it's this one statement.
19:32My birthplace has turned into a valley of death.
19:35This is what Sharaj Chakravarti is believed to have written on a social media platform.
19:39A fortnight later, he was killed.
19:42Targeting of cultural centers.
19:44Targeting of media.
19:47Is it all very well planned?
19:48Good evening, Gaurav and the good evening to fellow panelists and your viewers.
19:54Yes, it is all very well planned and it's planned in Pakistan.
19:58ISI is behind it.
19:59Jumaat-e-Islami, by extension, is carrying out whatever the ISI is wanting them to do.
20:05And it is Punjabi-Pakistani-Musliman who wants to get control of Bangladesh again, as they had
20:11before 1971 and what Punjabi-Pakistani-Musliman did to the Bangladeshi population in 1971 and the nine months, which Ambassador Sikri is talking about, is history to know.
20:23And they are repeating the history and with the connivance of this puppet government.
20:28The minorities are at risk.
20:29The intellectuals are at risk.
20:31The press is at risk.
20:32And they are shutting their eyes to it, as we just seen on your show just a few minutes ago.
20:38So, it's a very well planned, ISI-driven, Jumaat-e-Islami front, Yunus just a puppet, and it is a minority elimination which is happening.
20:48It's ethnic cleansing which is happening.
20:49Shafkat Rabhi, I want to understand from you, sir, before 1971, the manner in which Hindus and Bengalis were targeted by the Pakistani, the ones who came from West Pakistan, General A.A.K. Niazi, his men, the massacre that happened.
21:09And is all of that forgotten, sir, by this generation?
21:13Is Bangladesh cozying up to Pakistan once again?
21:16And would that be a case of perhaps cutting their nose to spite their face?
21:26Bangladesh, 65% of them are below the age of 35.
21:31Even their fathers were not born.
21:33Many of their fathers were not born 60 years ago or 57 years ago.
21:37So, just to put things into perspective, the country of 180 million has law and order situation that deteriorated over the last, I would say, few months.
21:47Particularly because it's a weaker government, an interim government.
21:51There are too many political forces that it cannot control without having a political mandate.
21:56So, we are eagerly waiting for a democratic transition so that a more political government comes to power and a stronger sense of security prevails in the country.
22:04So, there is an overall deterioration of law and order.
22:07There is absolutely no denying of that fact.
22:10The only thing I keep bringing that I am not aware of a targeted communal deterioration of law and order.
22:18And most internationally reputed observers, like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, they are not calling these things communal.
22:27Except for, you know, sometimes what I hear in your media.
22:31And I have respect for you because you are mostly Hindu people.
22:34So, you have respect and love and sympathy for Bangladeshi Hindus.
22:36Just like the Bangladeshis have Muslims in India.
22:39But keeping that away, what I am trying to tell you is that...
22:41Sir, we have love and sympathy for friends irrespective of what their religion may be.
22:48And that is why, you know, that is why India has helped all our neighbours despite the fact that our neighbours have bled us and called us names.
22:57But that is perhaps our civilizational strength.
23:00But that's a separate story and we leave that debate for another time.
23:03But then, do keep in mind that civilizational, you know, large-heartedness also perhaps has limits.
23:13But Ambassador Sikri, can the Muhammad Yunus regime continue to dismiss these attacks like in the past as fake news or vilification of Bangladesh by hostile India?
23:23Or claim that, yes, there is overall weakening of law and order, but not targeted killing of Hindus and other minorities.
23:29There is no further claim left for the Yunus regime to take.
23:34First of all, your participant from Bangladesh, he is accepting it's the weakness of the regime.
23:39This is no government.
23:40Then why have you made the July Charter?
23:42You are pretending to be a fully democratic regime.
23:45You have made a so-called July Charter, you know, consulting political parties, not even consulting the people.
23:50And then now you want to put it to a referendum which is not even allowed in the constitution of Bangladesh.
23:55Every unconstitutional means are being used by this regime.
23:59Of course, they are being backed by Pakistan and behind them are the Western powers who created the regime change operation.
24:05So that is where they are quiet.
24:06It is only India who is there to raise their voice on the side of human rights, on the side of justice, on the side of democracy.
24:14That is why we have been calling for inclusive elections.
24:17Without the participation of the Iwami League, these elections are a sham.
24:20Because there is no vote, no vote can come by the Iwami League.
24:24They will not vote.
24:25Even your foreign minister is no longer calling for inclusive elections.
24:30There is no question of inclusive election that includes Iwami League in Bangladesh as of now.
24:36Because the party has fled.
24:38The party has not fled.
24:39The people are still there.
24:41Please, there is every call for an inclusive election.
24:44The political party fleeing a country is a historical event in Bangladesh.
24:48It has never happened before.
24:51Pratham Aalo published a survey not even a month or so back where they said that 70% of those surveyed wanted the Iwami League to participate.
24:59It doesn't mean they will vote for Iwami League.
25:01You did not read that statistics properly, Ms. Ambassador.
25:05The statistics was that after fulfilling certain conditions, people accept Iwami League, which I do too.
25:13And one of the conditions is justice and also apology.
25:18So, how can there be an election if every political party is not represented?
25:25You have not been able to get an apology from Pakistan.
25:27I mean, this is a joke.
25:28But let me bring in Abhijit Aiyar Mitra.
25:30You know, since you raised the West and organizations that you may have faith in,
25:36like Amnesty, that have played a very bizarre and partisan role in the past.
25:42But Abhijit Aiyar Mitra, what explains the silence of the West?
25:46Complicit, indifferent, too focused in Venezuela.
25:49You know, what explains the silence and hypocrisy of the Western media?
25:52It's both deafening and shocking, sir.
25:54So, Gaurav, you just need to see their different standards on what Russia did to Ukraine,
26:00citing security concerns and what America did to Venezuela, citing security concerns.
26:06Trump has brought out the Monroe Doctrine all over again.
26:09But there is absolutely no protest from, there is no talk of colonialism from the EU leaders and things.
26:16So, they are irrelevant.
26:17But coming back to Mr. Rabi and what Ambassador Sikri was saying,
26:21he first started off saying the Avami League has disappeared, they have vanished.
26:25Then he goes on to say, no, no, we won't let them in till they apologize and justice is done.
26:29Which one? Both can't be true.
26:32Both can't be true.
26:33This is the way he constantly keeps shifting goalposts.
26:36First, he said, produce the, cite the news item.
26:41I cited the news item.
26:42Then he said, I am not aware of it.
26:44You see, a panel can't be constituted on what a panelist is aware of and not aware of.
26:49A panelist is required to read, read their basic point.
26:52No, our point is only to raise these issues.
26:55Our point is only to raise these issues.
26:56Okay, Mr. Rabi, you wanted to quickly comment, sir, before I bring in the general.
27:00Go on, sir.
27:01Yeah, so, look, what I never do in your shows is start citing statistics that are bad for India in this show.
27:07I do not do that.
27:08Sir, but, you know, we haven't invited you to talk about India.
27:10We have invited you to talk about Bangladesh.
27:13I understand, but you need to understand, a country of 180 million people has hundreds of killings per month.
27:21Bangladesh has 10% Hindus, so there would be naturally some Hindus who would be part of that killing statistics.
27:26But if you take those statistics and amplify it every day in your channels, that looks scientifically not valid.
27:33You need to understand that.
27:33Nobody in Bangladesh has expressed concern about these killings.
27:37I mean, a person is killed for not paying Jizya tax.
27:40Has anybody in the Bangladesh interim regime expressed any concern or said this is not happening because Jamaat-e-Islami is controlling the situation?
27:46Extortion is not Jizya tax, ma'am.
27:49Many Muslims are complaining in Bangladesh of extortion.
27:52Extortion of minorities.
27:56Muslims are complaining about extortion.
27:58You know, why, Mr. Rabi, we have seen this and we have seen this in our own country.
28:04General Dylan, isn't this eerily similar to the initial targeting of Hindus in Jammu and Kashmir in 1980s, late 1980s, early 1990s, from a trickle to a steady flow of blood that ultimately resulted in mass exodus of Hindus from Kashmir in 1990?
28:22Is that perhaps the aim even in Bangladesh?
28:27Guru, like I said earlier, like I said earlier.
28:30Yes, you're absolutely right.
28:32That was Pakistan-sponsored terror ambassador.
28:34But, yes, General Dylan.
28:37Yeah, Guru, like I said earlier, there is Pakistan, Pakistani Punjabi, Muslim, Pakistan army, ISI, Jabait-e-Islami written all over the script which is going on in Bangladesh.
28:47Same script was played out in Jammu and Kashmir.
28:53So, specifically, you have covered it well.
28:56I was a young captain there which brought it back to peace.
29:00Now, this is exactly what's happening.
29:02And, unfortunately, people who faced 1971 genocide at the hands of Punjabi Pakistani Muslim army,
29:08they must tell their grandchildren and children, even if these 35 years they blow and the figures were being cited,
29:16the people who are living, who have seen that genocide, the women who are living, who had to go through that genocide,
29:23who had to go through that brutality by the Pakistani Musliman, Punjabi Pakistani Musliman,
29:28why the Bangladeshi Musliman are not understanding this minor thing.
29:34Pakistan is in doldrums as it is.
29:36And they will make sure Bangladesh, which was doing much better than Pakistan of late,
29:40they will bring back Bangladesh to the same levels as is their own country.
29:45Mr. Rabhi, is that a fear?
29:48Is that an apprehension that Bangladesh that suffered once earlier,
29:52God forbid, may suffer once again, the manner in which Hindus and other minorities are being targeted,
29:59then your women will be targeted.
30:02And you've seen this happen in so many different parts of the world.
30:04Would Bangladesh want to go down that road once again, sir?
30:08See, I keep mentioning these things.
30:10There is an overall deterioration.
30:12Extortion is being done on Muslims and Hindus both
30:15because there is no singular party in command in the country right now.
30:18Multiple players are extorting people.
30:21It's a known problem in Bangladesh.
30:22Sir, if Jamaat, you know, becomes more powerful,
30:25women in burqa, women shouldn't be there in public life,
30:28it will start gradually and then, God forbid, sir,
30:31you could become another Afghanistan or Pakistan or worse, Somalia.
30:36You need to understand Bangladesh society fundamentally
30:39before saying Bangladesh is becoming Afghanistan.
30:41It is not becoming Afghanistan.
30:43There is an overall deterioration of law and order.
30:46Once a democratic transition happens, things will improve.
30:50And that's a commitment and a promise I can make.
30:53And you would see that happens.
30:54Sir, I would sincerely want to see that happen.
30:56And I would want all minorities and majority to live in harmony.
31:00But Ambassador Sikri, are you as confident as Shafkat Rabhi?
31:04Not at all.
31:05There is no democratic transition happening.
31:07Unless there are inclusive elections, it is not a democratic transition.
31:10It's a fixed game.
31:12Jamaat-e-Islami and BNP are two sides of the same coin.
31:15And so they want to have a national government among themselves.
31:17They've already fixed it up.
31:19June 2025, when Mohamed Yunus went to London,
31:21the whole die was cast.
31:23It's already been fixed since then.
31:25So this is only a drama going on for these elections.
31:28Unless the Abhami League is allowed to participate,
31:30unless there are inclusive elections,
31:32Jatyo Party, all the others who are being left out,
31:34until then, it will all be a drama.
31:36And the situation will go on deteriorating.
31:38Certainly, it will become Afghanistan,
31:39because that is what Pakistan wants.
31:41That's their target, to create the pre-1971 situation.
31:45You may say that the youngsters don't remember the liberation war,
31:48but I can tell you that each and every one of them
31:50is proud of the way Bangladesh got its liberation
31:53through the liberation war.
31:54Please don't belittle these youngsters.
31:59Yeah.
31:59We'll be tracking that story very closely.
32:02Shafkat Rabhi, Ambassador Veena Sikri, Gerald Dhillon and Abhijit,
32:05as always, many thanks for joining me.
32:07Big story coming in from Jammu and Kashmir.
32:11Union Power Minister Manoharlal Khattar
32:13has set a firm deadline
32:16for three major under-construction projects
32:20on the Indus Waters Treaty River
32:23with the Indus Waters Treaty in Abhijit.
32:27So this is the Pakal Kul Dam.
32:30It is the Kheeru and Kwar dams on the Chinab.
32:33So Pakal Dhill and Kheeru are to be commissioned by December 2026.
32:38So by the end of this year,
32:41power projects will get a major boost.
32:43The power grid will get a major boost
32:46from run-of-the-river dams in Jammu and Kashmir.
32:49It's a huge blow to Pakistan.
32:52And Pakistan's state sponsored radical Islamist terror.
32:55Given the fact that Prime Minister Narendra Modi
32:57had made it very clear,
32:58blood and water cannot flow together.
33:00So Kwar project of course is scheduled for completion by March 2028.
33:04But these projects are now being speeded up.
33:06The images that you see on your television screen
33:08is Manoharlal Khattar,
33:10the water minister in Jammu and Kashmir.
33:12He's completed a two-day strategic review of these projects.
33:17These projects will optimally utilize India's share
33:20of the Chinab River water
33:22and fast-track, long-pending infrastructure projects
33:26within international norms.
33:29The message from the Narendra Modi government
33:31to a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror Pakistan
33:34is very clear.
33:36India is accelerating power infrastructure
33:38in Jammu and Kashmir.
33:39That will benefit the people of Jammu and Kashmir
33:41and the rest of the country.
33:43And it continues to tighten the screws
33:45on a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror.
33:49That military jihad infrastructure,
33:51if it wants to bleed India,
33:53it will have a very parched throat.
33:55Listen in to Manoharlal Khattar.
33:57I'll get you more on this big story.
33:58I'll get you more on this big story.
34:28So, blood and water cannot flow together.
34:31That's the message from India
34:33to a state sponsor of terror.
34:35I want to bring in my colleague Sunil Ji Bhatt
34:37who joins us from Jammu for more on this story.
34:40Sunil Ji, once this project,
34:42once these projects are speeded up,
34:45it helps Jammu and Kashmir
34:46and it adds more power to the grid.
34:48It also brings in more employment.
34:49Give us details of the strategic review.
34:51Absolutely, Gaurav.
34:54Union Power Minister Manoharlal Khattar
34:56was on a two-day visit to Jammu and Kashmir
34:59and he reviewed the progress of the hydroelectric power projects
35:03here in Jammu and Kashmir,
35:04particularly in Jammu region.
35:06These power projects are being built
35:08over Chinab River.
35:10The ancient name of Chinab River is Chandrabhaga River
35:12and whether it's Ratle Power Project
35:15and other power projects,
35:17Union Power Minister Manoharlal Khattar
35:20himself reviewed the progress
35:21and he gave clear directions to the officials
35:24that there should be no further delay
35:26as far as completion of these projects is concerned.
35:29These projects should be completed
35:31as soon as possible
35:32because the long-term plan of the government
35:34is to deny every single drop of water
35:37from the Chinab River
35:39as well as from other two western rivers,
35:41whether it's the Indus River
35:42or the Vitasta River,
35:45that's the Jehillam River.
35:46So new projects are also coming up
35:48and the government has also set a deadline for it.
35:51So clearly government has shown a big will.
35:54Gaurav, if you remember
35:55after the Uri terror attack,
35:56Prime Minister Narendra Modi had said
35:58that water and blood cannot flow together.
36:01But after the horrific Pahlgam terror attack,
36:03the government decided to take strong steps
36:06and the first non-military option
36:08that was explored was
36:10to keep the Indus Water Treaty in abeyance.
36:13And now the government is trying to speed up.
36:15That's a huge step.
36:15We'll get you more on that story.
36:16We'll get you more on that story
36:17including how there are tears in Pakistan.
36:21You know, all that bravado,
36:22they may talk a lot,
36:24but this is something that will lead to tears in Pakistan
36:26and that will make Pakistan
36:28a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror sweat.
36:30Sunil Ji, many thanks for the moment.
36:32I now want to shift focus,
36:33take you all the way from Jammu and Kashmir
36:35to Tamil Nadu and it's a huge setback
36:38to the M.K. Stalin government.
36:40The Madras High Court has upheld the lighting
36:43of the Deepam atop the Thiru Parankundram Hill
36:46in Madurai.
36:47So that's actually pulling up the state government
36:50for what the court called,
36:52what is being called
36:53as a politically motivated obstruction.
36:56The court slammed the government's law in order argument
36:58calling it an imaginary ghost,
37:01cleared a centuries-old religious practice
37:03dealing a blow to the DMK stand.
37:05The DMK, however, has said
37:06they will move the Supreme Court.
37:08They've signaled that this legal battle
37:10is far from over.
37:12And Union Minister Piyush Goyal,
37:14he was quick off the block.
37:16He's accused
37:17the Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M.K. Stalin
37:19and Uday Nidhi Stalin
37:21of appeasement politics.
37:23He's actually targeted
37:24the opposition India alliance.
37:26He said that they are
37:28anti-Hindu
37:29against the Sanatanda.
37:31In a crushing blow to the Stalin government
37:39and in a big win for Hindu outfits,
37:41the Madras High Court has rejected
37:43the state government's petition
37:44blocking the lighting of the Deepam
37:47atop the Thiru Parankundram in Madurai.
37:49The court said that the ancient Deepatun
37:51sits on the Devastanam temple land
37:53and upheld the devotee's right
37:55to light the Deepam.
37:57The High Court slammed the DMK government
38:00saying that peace can't be breached
38:01unless it is state-sponsored
38:03and warning that the state
38:04should not stoop for political goals.
38:07It also accused the administration
38:08of attempting to pit two communities
38:10against each other
38:11and labelled the workbook's claim
38:13on the land as mischievous.
38:15The bench stressed that the government
38:16is responsible for public peace
38:18and concluded with a message for all,
38:21let there be light, not fight.
38:22The court said that the government
38:52The controversy arose over whether the Kardigai Deepam could be lit near a dargah,
39:05with the DMK citing law and order fears are claimed that the court dismissed as baseless.
39:10Justice J.R. Swaminathan, who delivered the earlier single judge verdict approving the Deepam,
39:15had said that he hoped to light the lamp himself one day.
39:22The opposition hailed the High Court decision, calling out the DMK for blatant misuse of power
39:46and urging the government to respect the rule of law.
39:48Justice J.J. Chandran and Justice K.K. Ramakrishnan have shown that the DMK and the India Alliance
40:03is anti-Hindu and directed that the lamp be lit at the hilltop.
40:10But the Deepam war is still not over, as the DMK government is challenging the High Court
40:15verdict in the Supreme Court.
40:16The lighting of the Kardigai Deepam continues to remain a big flashpoint ahead of the upcoming assembly polls in Tamil Nadu.
40:42The verdict by the single judge, G.R. Swaminathan, is upheld and the petitioner claims this as a huge victory for law.
40:51While the court has also stated that political agenda cannot be a play for the government
40:55and maintaining law and order is the subject of the state.
40:59On the other hand, the DMK government clearly says that it will move the top court,
41:04which means the issue has not yet ended.
41:07With Irfan, from Vodmadam, for India today.
41:11And joining me now on India first, Ramakrishnan Rajagopal, former IIS officer and spokesperson of the Tamil Nadu BJP.
41:19Also with me is Selam Dharani Dharan, DMK spokesperson.
41:22Gentlemen, welcome.
41:24Selam Dharani Dharan, if I may, the bench categorically held lighting of the Kardigai Deepam
41:28is an essential religious practice of the temple.
41:32The court ruled that this practice falls squarely within the religious freedom of the Subramanya Swami temple.
41:39Is there then merit in the BJP saying that the actions of the Stalin government and the wider India alliance are essentially anti-Hindu, sir?
41:46Who is BJP or the RSS to decide who is Hindu and who is not a Hindu?
41:54Tamil Nadu, India is 85% Hindu and BJP's vote share is 37%, which means majority of Hindus have not voted for the BJP itself.
42:00And secondly, if they stand alone, the vote share is less than 5% in Tamil Nadu,
42:03which is again more than 90% Hindu state, which means the majority of Hindus have voted for the DMK.
42:09So the question that BJP can call someone a Hindu or anti-Hindu is preposterous.
42:13DMK has done more for temple than anyone else have done.
42:15We have introduced people of all the castes can become priests in Tamil Nadu by the DMK government.
42:19Pension for the priests in the DMK government.
42:204,500 crores of temple land has been recovered. DMK government.
42:23This is an historical practice.
42:25For more than 100 years, the practice has been in Uchipalaya temple.
42:28And the site is an example for the globe on religious harmony.
42:31At the hotel, there are Muslim brothers and Hindu brothers having their shops.
42:36When the Deepam has been lit in Uchipalaya temple, Muslims also go.
42:39And the functions in Dargah.
42:40Hindu also go as an example to the world and the country on religious harmony.
42:43And the petitioner has a political motive because he is a politician, he is not a devotee.
42:49He is from a Hindu Munnani.
42:51Or if Hindu Munnani is representing Hindus and Hindus should have voted for them, they have their ideologies in place.
42:56So that doesn't mean that he is representing, he wanted to create communal disharmony there.
43:01We have seen how the 90s are template from Ayodhya, how the riots happen.
43:06And then Gyan Vapi, go on, this goes on.
43:09Before election, there is an attempt to create violence.
43:12And as a state government...
43:13You're saying it's an attempt to create violence ahead of elections.
43:16Mr. Raj Gopal, the DMK intends to challenge this verdict in Supreme Court.
43:21Go on, sir.
43:24Okay, last 30 seconds.
43:25Go on, complete your point, sir.
43:26I am saying Hindus do not have a problem.
43:29The Muslims do not have a problem.
43:31So then what is the problem?
43:32Why is the petitioner...
43:34Sir, if the Hindus and the Muslims don't have a problem, why did the government then stop it?
43:38If nobody has a problem, why did the government seek prohibitory orders in place and stop it?
43:43But let me bring in Mr. Ramakrishnan Rajagopal to respond to that.
43:47Because the DMK, sir, intends to challenge this verdict in Supreme Court.
43:50DMK, as you heard Mr. Selam Dharani Dharan say, they've done more for Hindus than any other party.
43:56And their 50% vote share indicates.
43:58They have the support of the people.
43:59They're listening to all sides and ensuring law and order is maintained, sir.
44:04I'll just explain the case in a second.
44:06This case has been won through the legal process.
44:10There has been no use of force.
44:12There has been no use of violence.
44:15Secondly, the property entirely belongs to the Hindus.
44:18This was decided in 1920.
44:21And lighting a lamp anywhere on the Hindu property is the right of every Hindu.
44:25It's not a question of the temple or X or Y.
44:28If I would like to light a temple in my Hindu property, I should have the right to practice my religion the way I want.
44:34And so it is actually an infringement or they are actually curbing my right to practice my religion.
44:40And that is exactly the problem with the DMK because it is anti-Hindu in character.
44:45Now, I would have expected that the party would have accepted the division bench judgment.
44:49Now, what happened last time was they attributed the judgment to a particular judge and his leanings towards a particular affiliation or an association.
44:58Now, it has been decided by the division bench of the high court and you can't attribute motives to this judgment.
45:06Now, where is the question?
45:08Now, you go to the Supreme Court which clearly shows the anti-Hindu character of the party.
45:13Basically, they want to prevent or they want to actually curb the rights of the Hindus.
45:18And that's exactly the problem.
45:20It is not a question of whether…
45:21Let me get Mr. Dhani Dharan to respond to that.
45:24Now that the division bench has given a verdict, why is the MK Stalin government intending to challenge this in Supreme Court?
45:32Unless, as Mr. Piyush Goyal indicates, this is Muslim appeasement politics of the Indy Alliance.
45:38And why should anybody have an issue if Hindus want to light a Deepam and follow their religious practices, sir?
45:46Sir, there is no appeasement policy in Tamil Nadu because we don't differentiate people based on religion.
45:50There's only one identity.
45:51There's a Tamil identity.
45:52That's point number one.
45:53Point number two, it is not about Deepam lighting.
45:55Deepam has always been lit there in Uchipalaya Temple irrespective of which party is in power.
45:59It happened during the Congress.
46:01DMK, ADMK, DMK.
46:02That is very clear.
46:03It is about…
46:04It has to be lit somewhere else.
46:06That is the problem.
46:07I'm changing the culture and custom of the temple, which who will decide?
46:11Who will decide whether Deepam has to be lit?
46:12The temple authorities, the priests, they all want it to be lit in the Uchipalaya Temple as well.
46:18So what is the complication here?
46:20What is the issue here?
46:21Has the majority of the Hindus come and said, no, no, we don't want to light that?
46:25Truthy miscreants are the ones who want to do it.
46:27And BJP has taken up the issue because of the election.
46:29They want to falsely claim the DMK is anti-Hindu because somehow we have given that authority falsely to the BJP
46:36that they represent the Hindus, which is, in my opinion, preposterous.
46:40BJP does not represent the Hindus.
46:42Hindus represent themselves.
46:43I am a Murga devotee.
46:44So I wanted to be lit in the Uchipalaya Temple.
46:46Who is someone else?
46:47How is someone a superior Hindu to tell that I have to listen to him?
46:51You answer this question to me.
46:51Fair enough.
46:51But the court observed, and let me just give you court observation, the court, Mr. Dharani
46:56Dharan said that the state has no authority to interdict such practices by invoking prohibitory
47:02orders, which incidentally the state did, when the land on which the practice is sought to
47:07be performed does not belong to any objector, to the objector.
47:11But Mr. Rajagopal, the Thiru Paran Kunjan Hill has historically been hailed as a haven of
47:17Hindu-Muslim coexistence, as Mr. Dharani Dharan points out.
47:21It's hosting the Supramanya Swami Temple, the Kashi Vishwanath Temple, and also that 17th
47:25century Sikandar Badusha Darga.
47:28They are accusing the BJP of fomenting trouble for electoral gains, sir.
47:33Absolutely not.
47:34You see, the BJP is not interested in creating any trouble on this issue.
47:39It's only a simple question of violation of fundamental rights of people of Tamil Nadu,
47:44particularly the Hindus of Tamil Nadu.
47:46I, as a Hindu, would like to light a lamp on the hill at some point within the Hindu property.
47:53I am not getting into the Muslim area at all.
47:56When I don't, if I have that right, I have that fundamental right according to the Article
47:5925 of the Constitution.
48:01The state can curb my rights only if my actions result in violation or in disruption of public
48:08order.
48:09I am not disrupting public order in any way.
48:11It's not a question of the BJP or the Hindu Munani.
48:14It's a question of every Hindu having his right to practice his religion the way he wants.
48:19If a Muslim or a Christian or any other community person has that, why not the Hindu?
48:24Why are the Hindus in Tamil Nadu being treated like second-class citizens by the DMK?
48:28Sir, that's a grave charge.
48:32Last 30 seconds, Hindus are being treated as second-class citizens by the DMK and that
48:36is the politics of the Indian alliance or the alliance that is being seen as anti-Hindu,
48:42Mr. Dharani Dharan, according to the BJP.
48:44Which is a false claim.
48:47That is what I have been saying from the beginning.
48:48That who gave BJP the authority to represent the Hindus?
48:52It's not a Hindu matter.
48:54It is BJP wants to politically manipulate the situation.
48:57Why are we going to the higher court?
48:58Because there is always a procedure that justice cannot be only found in one place.
49:03That's why you have a session court, district court, high court and a supreme court.
49:06So from a high court, we are going to the supreme court, which is not wrong.
49:08But our philosophy and question is also that as I elected government, we are not ordained from God.
49:13We elected government.
49:14So we have to listen to the people.
49:15And we feel, we know the pulse of the people and we feel that people want it to exist.
49:19Like how it has been existing, point number one.
49:21Point number two is also duty, duty of my government to maintain law and order.
49:25So it is possible that my police and institutions...
49:26Why should law and order be impacted if everyone is in communal harmony?
49:30If Hindus are also happy, Muslims are also happy.
49:33Why should there be a law and order issue?
49:35But perhaps we will have to leave that for another time because I have run out of time on this part of the debate.
49:41But in the end, I just want to quote you what the Honourable High Court said, especially on the single judge order.
49:46They said, Justice G.R. Swaminathan's order does not create a new religious practice,
49:51but merely enables the exercise of an existing right on temple-owned land.
49:57Why should there be a law and order issue if everyone is living in communal harmony?
50:03I will leave our viewers to give their opinion on that and we'll track the story closely.
50:08I have run out of time on this part of the show.
50:10Many thanks for watching.
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