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00:00Well, well, well, what have we here? Welcome in to WEI Afternoons.
00:06I'm going to start things off on a Tuesday. We've got a big show for you.
00:10Ted Johnson will be in at 3. We'll get a TED Talk, 3.30, 2.30.
00:14We'll have our weekly chat with Mark Schlereth.
00:17I'm going to be interested in his perspective as a guy who's been very supportive of the Patriots,
00:21how he saw that failure, that loss to the Bills.
00:24Brian Hoyer will chat with us at 4.30.
00:27But we talked a little bit about this yesterday, and I owe Dan Ball an apology.
00:33I thought Dan Ball was kind of reading into things with the answer from Mike Vrabel.
00:38Playing a little radio.
00:39Playing a little radio, bringing it from the Capital Region here to Boston, his style.
00:44He was kind of doing one of those, you know what he was doing, Andy?
00:47He was doing one of those Steph Curry right out of the tunnel, like across court threes,
00:52where it's like, this isn't going to go in. Why would you even?
00:54Oh, my God, he sank it.
00:56And I think Dan Ball will take the comp to Steph Curry, one of the great shooters of all time,
01:00if that's his radio career.
01:02Yeah, I'd say so.
01:03So we...
01:04Launching bombs and draining them.
01:06There was the background for what we're going to talk about today,
01:09which is the relationship between Mike Vrabel and Josh McDaniels,
01:13something that we have been focusing on, watching, observing,
01:17going back to what we believe, if not a forced marriage,
01:22was a marriage that was kind of pushed in that direction by Robert Kraft.
01:27Andy, I believe the old term back in the days where dowry would be exchanged was an arranged marriage.
01:33Okay, let's say an arranged marriage.
01:35Oh, Vrabel talked to Thomas Brown and these guys, but Josh gets the job.
01:40They get lucky.
01:40Thomas Brown's on the staff as well.
01:43And first week, if you recall, there were the questions about the offense.
01:48There was the questions about the coaching of the quarterback.
01:49Was there too much on his plate?
01:51And Vrabel's like, oh, we're going to have to figure that out.
01:54And people are like, huh, that's interesting.
01:55There have been questions about the run game.
01:58Remember when they...
01:59I believe it was when they had the six chances from the one-yard line and couldn't get in.
02:02And Vrabel's like, sometimes you just got to be able to run the ball.
02:05Sometimes you just got to call a play and let them do it.
02:08Don't get too fancy.
02:09They were a little like veiled slash not-so-veiled shots at the play calling,
02:14the scheme, and the coaching, which is Josh.
02:16And then yesterday was that answer where it's like, hey, you can praise Josh McDaniels now
02:21because this offense has been really good this year with Drake May as an MVP candidate.
02:24And he's like, well, it's not just Josh.
02:26It's everybody, and he deflects and immediately wants to talk about everybody not named Josh McDaniels.
02:33So that's where we were yesterday, Fitzy.
02:36And that's where I was like, okay, Dan, you hear what you hear.
02:40I'm not going to tell you what you hear, but if people are wondering why we're making crap up
02:45and looking for things that aren't there, I'm giving you the blame.
02:48But if this becomes a real thing, I'm giving you the credit.
02:50Well, I think it became a thing around noon today on the Jones and Keefe show
02:56when Tom Curran was asked about this very topic.
03:00In fact, he kind of brought it up on his own in one answer, this question about Mike Vrabel and Josh McDaniels.
03:07Let's listen to what Curran had to say.
03:08Do you think there could be a real kind of decision there on who the offensive coordinator is next season?
03:14I don't know.
03:14So that's my thing is what does he want?
03:16What does Mike want?
03:17Is he just doing what a coach would do after a Monday in which the team didn't do well
03:22and answering a question the way we in the media would like him to, candidly?
03:27And he would say, no, of course I frigging love Josh.
03:30No, you're reading too much into it.
03:32Or is it more, yeah, I don't love some of the stuff that we're doing there.
03:36I think it could be better.
03:37I don't know.
03:38And I don't think it's something I'm going to ask him at the podium
03:40because I don't think he's going to definitively say, especially with, you know, three weeks left in the regular season.
03:47Yeah, I'm not sure if I have full faith.
03:48We're going to have to investigate that later.
03:50He's not going to say that.
03:52He is not going to say that.
03:53But right there, I believe.
03:55That would upset everything.
03:56Andy, that would take the season and throw it into utter turmoil.
03:59Yeah, it's not going to happen.
03:59He's not that dumb.
04:00He's not that arrogant.
04:02That's never going to happen.
04:03And I agree with Tom.
04:04That's not even a question you really can ask at a press conference.
04:07It's just, it's not going to go well for anybody.
04:09But the I don't know to start that, is Josh McDaniels going to be back as the offensive coordinator next year?
04:15I don't know.
04:16And that's not from some flippant radio guy.
04:20That's not from some podcaster who's been, you know, doing podcasting for two years but also has a day job.
04:26That is Tom Curran, who I believe is the longest tenured consecutive beat writer.
04:32He goes back to the mid-90s, various stops along the way.
04:36He predates Ted Johnson on the Patriots.
04:40And he doesn't know after kind of poo-pooing it earlier in the season.
04:44So, Dan Ball, what do you think of this alliance you have with Tom Curran, whose ears and eyes are seeing or hearing something in regards to this relationship thing?
04:54It's an unexpected duo.
04:56Not one that I thought I'd be teaming up with.
04:58We have a very great text chain where it's me going, hey, Tom, confirming 3.30 with the Afternoons guys and him liking the message.
05:05He hasn't responded in months.
05:06You guys really go back and forth a lot.
05:07Yeah, you know, real, real meaningful exchange.
05:09Intimate, personal, telling.
05:10We had one memorable exchange about baseball when the Red Sox got eliminated and past that, not much.
05:16So, I wasn't expecting it and I also wasn't expecting this to take the kind of immediate turn that it did.
05:21I expected this to be on the back burner until, I'd say, even a year from now.
05:27Like we talked about yesterday.
05:28If there was a year two drop, a Texans-Commanders-level drop for Drake in the offense, then I could see this start to be revisited.
05:35Tom was about two months earlier than I was on this because that clip that we played in the open was him in mid-September saying,
05:42Do I think there's tension now? No.
05:44Could there be? Yes.
05:45So, winning solves all of this, which is why I don't think this is an immediate, immediate concern,
05:50but it's just every chance that Vrabel gets to congratulate, to give credit to, to give kudos to Josh McDaniels and the job that he's doing with Drake May,
05:59he balks and he talks around it and I just, I can't ignore that because of the multiple pieces of evidence we have.
06:05Well, you have to wonder, Andy and Dan, like, is this ego on Vrabel's behalf?
06:11Does he not want to share all of the sort of like congratulatory pie?
06:16Does, is he frustrated with the red zone offense the way all of us have been,
06:21most notably in games like the Buccaneers game where you have like 800 tries at the one and can't punch it in?
06:27Does he think Josh is getting too cute?
06:30I, you know, I can't imagine it would be so much as Mike Vrabel thinking like,
06:34Hey, where's, where's, where's everyone thanking me?
06:36Because he's so good about like letting everyone know how important they are to him and the team,
06:41that there has to be something underlying here.
06:44So you think he might have an issue with trick plays,
06:46such as the double pass for 13 yards that he referenced yesterday,
06:50which was referenced multiple times, notable.
06:53Um, and you bring up the idea that he is annoyed with the red zone offense.
06:58Hey, uh, Vrabes, do you have a mirror at Gillette stadium?
07:00Cause you might want to look at the red zone defense.
07:02Cause it is putrid and way worse than the red zone offense.
07:05I'd also argue.
07:07Um, so you're, this team has lost three games.
07:10And after two of the three losses,
07:12we're talking about the offensive coordinator and his relationship with the head coach.
07:16Cause remember we did it week one after Drake may did not look good against the Raiders.
07:20And you have a disappointing opener at Gillette stadium and we're doing it too much on his plate.
07:25Yep.
07:25Too much on his plate.
07:26And now it's like a hashtag, a trick plays hashtag double pass for 13 yards.
07:32And I also think it's interesting.
07:35Did the Patriots lose on Sunday because of the offense?
07:38I, I still, I hate to say it, but if I got to go either or on this one,
07:42the, the offense didn't give up five consecutive touchdowns.
07:45Interesting.
07:46And where all the coaches on the defense or Vrabel guys, Vrabel,
07:50what did he do before he became a head coach?
07:52What was his job?
07:53How did he come up through the ranks?
07:55Concessions.
07:56Oh, really?
07:56I thought it was as a linebacker and then a linebackers coach.
07:59Oh no, he coached at Ohio state and a defensive play caller.
08:02I thought his bread and butter was defense.
08:05So it's interesting that his hand chosen guys at core,
08:09who I believe goes back to Ohio state with him is calling plays.
08:12And Vrabel is a defensive, I won't say genius.
08:15Cause he hasn't earned that moniker yet, but expert on that side of the ball.
08:19I would say specialist expert.
08:20Sure.
08:20I think he even early in the year talked about, you know,
08:23he's never going to be able to coach quarterbacks,
08:25but he's spending a lot of time on the offensive side of the ball to learn
08:28the scheme and learn more about offense, be more of a balanced head coach.
08:32So he's an expert on defense, a defense that how many straight touchdowns I,
08:37I lost my game book.
08:38I couldn't bring it up.
08:39How many straight touchdown drives were there by the Buffalo Bills?
08:42That was five, that was five, five.
08:44And what happened was, um, they got one to end the first half and then they scored
08:49all straight through the third quarter and then well into the fourth.
08:52So Mike Vrabel, uh, why are we, uh, throwing stones if we're throwing stones?
08:58Cause I still have an out here.
09:00I'm obviously a supporter of Josh McDaniels.
09:02We talked to Josh McDaniels every other week here on the show,
09:05but I also have a belief that I shared with Dan ball yesterday off air.
09:09I think Mike Vrabel minimizes coaching in general.
09:13I think he doesn't want coaches to get all the credit.
09:16And I think it's rooted in his early two thousands playing career in new
09:20England, where all of the credit went to bill Belichick and not the hall of fame
09:26talent.
09:27That was that lines up with his personality and things he said previously, Andy, because
09:31if it's Mike Vrabel, who famously talked about the mall at Patriot place, like, oh, that's
09:38cool.
09:38Mr. Kraft gets all that.
09:39Uh, how about all the players who, uh, contributed to the winning, which led to the revenue, which
09:43was able to generate the income, which allowed them to develop that land and put those stores
09:48together.
09:48Huh?
09:49Funny how that works.
09:49That was, uh, part of what, uh, many believe led him as to be the add on to the Matt castle
09:55trade to Kansas city in 2009.
09:57So I think I, I would not be, and he's also famously spoken up about, oh, I don't know,
10:02just about anything on his mind during his tenure as both player and coach in new England.
10:06So minimizing the coaching.
10:08So as, so as they don't get all the credit and a reverse Bella chicken capacity, I, I would
10:13put big chips down on that.
10:14And I actually think it's admirable because he's no longer a player.
10:17It's easy to say it's about the players.
10:18When you're a player, it's not as easy when you're the head coach making $17 million a
10:23year.
10:23And you want to prove your value and show Robert Kraft that he's getting return on his
10:26coaching investment and all of those things.
10:28So 6, 1, 7, 7, 7, 9, 7, 93, 7.
10:31How are we feeling about the relationship between Josh McDaniels and Mike Vrabel?
10:34Do we think there could be an issue there?
10:37Do we think Josh McDaniels has a chance to not be back in 2026 as the offensive coordinator
10:42of the Patriots?
10:44Tom Curran said, I don't know.
10:45And I do want to go to the text line because 413 says, not what Curran said, not what Vrabel
10:50said, keep stirring the pot.
10:52We just played you the audio.
10:53I'm not saying what Curran said.
10:55Curran said what Curran said.
10:56We played the audio.
10:57Vrabel said what Vrabel said.
10:59We played the audio.
11:00I'm not saying there's actually an issue.
11:02I'm just telling you, we played the audio of the head coach and then the longest tenured
11:05beat reporter.
11:06Right, Dan Ball?
11:06What's the record this season?
11:08What's the Patriots record this season?
11:1011 and 3.
11:1011 and 3, I believe.
11:12Drake May is a top blank MVP candidate in the league.
11:15And yet we're having conversations with people who are tied into the Patriots and have been
11:19for years about the safety of the offensive coordinator that was brought up largely unprompted.
11:25Again, this is not...
11:27I wish that we just came on and said, all right, let's create something today, boys.
11:31Let's create something that's not there.
11:34This is simply just putting together details that were started back in September before we
11:38knew that they were going to be an 11-win team or more.
11:39And something that we, I thought, addressed and put to bed yesterday.
11:45Put a pin in it, put it to bed and said, we'll revisit this.
11:48As you said, it might be a year plus away when we would revisit it.
11:52But I thought we addressed it.
11:53We hashed it out.
11:54We looked at it from a number of angles.
11:56I gave you the blame slash credit, Dan Ball.
11:59Now I have to just give you the credit.
12:01Because Tom Curran has thrown a little lighter fluid on this discussion.
12:05It was like a little spark, and now we've got a little lighter fluid.
12:08You're like, oh, it's a pretty good-sized flame.
12:10And if it catches that pile over there, this could become an issue.
12:12And just to quickly clarify where I think this comes from,
12:14I do think it is a factor of a marriage that wasn't Vrabel's choice.
12:20Right.
12:20And something that went relatively viral from the head coach earlier on in the season
12:24when Jalen Polk got hurt was his rats comment.
12:27We got to get the rats out of here.
12:29Ah, yes.
12:29Those were good days.
12:31Those were good days.
12:31They were fun and salacious and all that kind of stuff.
12:33So not to say that McDaniels is a rat, because that's not what I would say.
12:36But he's very cognizant of who is on his side in the building.
12:42And if he believes that his top lieutenant is somebody who was installed not by him by choice,
12:47but by the organization, the guys in the organization that have the power to hire and fire
12:53and replace somebody with somebody else,
12:55then I think that's something that rubs Vrabel the wrong way,
12:58which is why you have Todd Downing as a coach, you have Thomas Brown as a coach,
13:03Ashton Grant as a coach, all these guys that are coaches under McDaniels that he knows,
13:07but not the guy who the crafts would want as the offensive coordinator in Josh McDaniels.
13:11That's where I think this comes from.
13:12And I also want to revisit the observation that I brought up yesterday when we were talking about this,
13:18that early in the year, people were asking about Drake May and Josh McDaniels,
13:23and people believed Mike Vrabel was hesitant, reticent of praise for those two guys.
13:29And then about a month ago, somewhere along the line, maybe on Thursday night football,
13:33and that, well, I came here because of this guy right here.
13:36He's the reason I came here.
13:37The praise has just heaped and snowballed on Drake May, how good he is watching him.
13:41I'm grateful for him every day.
13:43Absolutely.
13:43I'm happy he's here.
13:44Drake is doing a great job.
13:46So at one point, it seemed like Vrabel was actually hesitant to praise the quarterback
13:50and the offensive coordinator.
13:52Now he's only hesitant to maybe praise the offensive coordinator, who, yes,
13:58at least got a very, very powerful letter of recommendation from the owner of the football team.
14:03Is that safe to say?
14:04At the very least, Robert was like, hey, this guy's good.
14:06We've had him for a long time.
14:08Make sure you give him a top opportunity at the job.
14:10Yeah.
14:10And listen, the results we have, I think we've had no issue with the results, save for the fact
14:15that, you know, there are, there's a quibble with the red zone offense.
14:19Sure.
14:19And the fact that I still think the issue that they don't put these teams away, step on their
14:23neck or drive it up to the high thirties or forties to prevent comebacks or not have
14:28anything like they had to deal with Sunday when the defense got tired, gassed and shredded
14:32by Josh Allen, that's been a lingering issue as well.
14:34But I, geez, I just, I bet it's going to go this way.
14:39The same way that we said, we're not really sure how we feel about the results we saw
14:43Sunday and the team's reported resolve or so the players told us to turn things around
14:48and treat it like, like dig said, as a, as a good thing, a learning experience.
14:52We won't know until after Sunday's game.
14:54We said, we'd probably know 1130 when we do the six rings post game following the Pat's
14:59Ravens game.
15:00Same thing is I'm going to decide after tomorrow because I guarantee you this conversation
15:05now from what he said yesterday on the radio to the fact that current was aware of it current
15:09with the midday show us talking about it.
15:11Someone in the pool tomorrow is going to ask Mike Vrabel, like, Hey Mike, um, just your
15:16thoughts on the job.
15:17Josh is doing thus far and what that relationship is like.
15:20If he gives us a whole, like, I'm not doing the coaching thing today, guys, we have a big
15:24game next one, next Sunday, then you'll know.
15:27Or if he does like, listen, I think Josh is great.
15:30I love Josh working with him as one of the many blessings.
15:33You know, I think we should feel better about it.
15:35Some will probably believe he's just putting a flame retardant on this little brush fire.
15:40Yeah.
15:40I look forward to that.
15:41That's a great point.
15:42Fitsy a great idea.
15:43I hope he goes over the top.
15:45I didn't know I had to say it.
15:46I thought Josh's record spoke for itself that he's one of the best offensive coordinators
15:50of the last quarter century.
15:51That would be so rebellion if you will, Andy.
15:52There is a chance at that.
15:53Before we get to your phone call, 617-779-7937, I do want to read a quick note from the Twitch
16:00chat.
16:00I'd like to include everybody on the show in the discussion.
16:02Everyone's welcome.
16:03This is exactly what you bozos are doing, creating drama where there is no drama, and you wonder
16:08why everyone hates the media and why Drake hates talking to you guys every week.
16:11That's from FrankieBear842.
16:13Okay, that's an opinion.
16:14You can share your opinion.
16:16Let's let Tim in the truck share his opinion.
16:18Let's go to the phone line, 617-779-7937.
16:21What's up, Tim?
16:21Hey, how you doing, guys?
16:26Listen, I don't think we need to create drama because the Buffalo should come in and beat
16:33them.
16:33And to be honest with you, we were going to be happy if they were 8-8 at the end of the
16:39season.
16:40We were going to be thrilled with that.
16:41And look where they are today.
16:43So, Josh Daniels is doing a great job.
16:47Head coaching, the coaching staff, everybody's doing a great job.
16:50We don't need drama.
16:52Don't need it now.
16:53We're trying to build this team so they can go on.
16:56Do I expect they're going to win the Super Bowl this year?
16:58Absolutely not.
17:00But I do expect they're going to be in the playoffs one way or the other, whether it's
17:04a wild card or not.
17:05And I do expect that they're going to get better and better as they go.
17:09And Josh Daniels is one of the best offensive coordinators in the league, in my opinion.
17:14Thanks for the call, Tim.
17:16Now, if I wanted to pick apart Tim's comment, like we would probably pick apart Josh's or
17:21Mike's, did you notice he said, Josh McDaniels is great.
17:24And then he said, the head coach and the rest of the coaching staff is doing a good job.
17:27He didn't even say Mike Frabel's name.
17:29Tim doesn't think that Mike Frabel's a very good coach right there.
17:32Oh, now you play in radio, guy.
17:34Now you play in radio, you play in radio.
17:38You know, sometimes you hear what's said.
17:39Sometimes you got to hear what wasn't said.
17:41Read between the lines.
17:42He's also trying to make that turn because I could hear his directional going.
17:45Yeah, he was trying to focus.
17:46Okay, yeah, he had a lot going on, okay?
17:48You know, he's like Tom Brady said, he's 45 years old.
17:51He's got a lot of ish going on.
17:53Look, I think, honestly, this becomes a non-topic potentially tomorrow and by Sunday.
18:01Or if Frabel disses it and then just dismisses it and walks by like, you know, Chad, I don't
18:07have time for this, really.
18:08I don't.
18:08Or if Sunday, they struggle again against a defense they really should be able to put up
18:1430 plus on, then we got us a nice, juicy pre-Christmas story.
18:18So we need two weeks of losing to promote this little soap opera that Dan Ball started here
18:23on WEEI Afternoons yesterday.
18:25Mike Vrabel, Josh McDaniels, the relationship between the head coach and the offensive coordinator
18:30and what that means for the Patriots moving forward.
18:32That's 617-779-7937.
18:35We will revisit that.
18:36We'll continue to take your phone calls on that topic.
18:38Up next, though, it's our weekly chat with Mark Schlereth.
18:41We'll see what he thinks about this Patriots loss, how he would describe it, and how he
18:45thinks this team is set for the home stretch of the schedule here.
18:48That's up next here on WEEI.
18:50But first, Dan Ball has what's trending.
18:52I mean, I love this.
18:52I love football.
18:53Andy Hart.
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