- 5 weeks ago
David Heyman ('Jay Kelly'), Joseph Kosinski ('F1: The Movie'), Marc Platt ('Wicked: For Good'), Nia DaCosta ('Hedda'), Sara Murphy ('One Battle After Another') and Sev Ohanian ('Sinners') join THR in our Producer Roundtable.
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00:00I think the most difficult thing for a producer is when you have to say no to something that you want to say yes to.
00:06And often you find new solutions and sometimes good things can come from that.
00:30Thank you so much for joining us for the Hollywood Reporter Producers Roundtable.
00:52And thank you all for joining us.
00:53Just to begin with, I am hoping everyone can tell me what is the moment as a producer that had you sweating the most?
01:02It can be on this movie. It can be on your first movie. It could be on not any movie at all.
01:06Seth, I'm looking at you first, so I am calling out you right now.
01:10I think on our movie Sinners, we shot that movie very much in the outdoors.
01:17Our production designer, Hannah Buechler, designed almost all the sets you see from the ground up and we were in the elements.
01:22But the weather wasn't always too kind to us. I'm sure you guys can relate to that.
01:26So some of our sequences, we had to, you know, we spent a lot of nights in Ryan's trailer trying to figure out how we can get back to shooting.
01:33One of our sequences is a sequence in the middle where Jack O'Connell, as Remick, has all of the turned vampires conducting this big dance, you know, set to Rocky Road to Dublin.
01:42We had budgeted like a good six hours for that sequence.
01:46You know, it's a sizable sequence.
01:48It just so happened, due to all those weather delays, we ended up finding ourselves with only an hour and a half to shoot that.
01:54And we were like talking, you know, Ryan, my partner Zinzi and I, we were all talking like, you know, should we try and punt this?
01:59But we might be able to get this.
02:00And Ryan was like, let's go for it.
02:01And we literally came together as a whole crew.
02:05I've never seen this happen before.
02:06Everybody was unified to pull this off.
02:08We were racing up and down to the hair and makeup trailers, to the 80s.
02:12Locations are helping with shoveling, all the things.
02:14And we had to do, you know, 100 extras and special effects.
02:17And the sun was coming up.
02:19And these are vampires, so we can't have sun, you know, in a vampire movie.
02:22And, guys, we barely pulled it off.
02:25And it was gorgeous.
02:26I genuinely think if you watch the sequence, you can feel all the performers are feeling that pressure.
02:30And, you know, we finished and, you know, we hadn't slept for 24 hours.
02:34We had to go to sleep for the next night.
02:35But we all went and had empanadas because we had so much energy still from that experience.
02:39I mean, what a way to end a stressful day with an empanada.
02:43That's how you got to do it.
02:45Sarah, what about for you?
02:46I'm sure that we all had our pandemic moments.
02:49On Licorice Pizza, we were one of the first productions at the gate in L.A.
02:53And the reason that we had been in such a hurry and we had sort of rushed into production
02:56is because we were going to lose Bradley Cooper to another show in Canada.
03:00We had like four days to shoot all of his sequences.
03:04And there was this one moment where he sort of has an altercation with a young kid at a gas station.
03:11That morning, it was a similar situation where we didn't have a lot of time.
03:14And it was like a dusk shot and it was a one-er.
03:17It was this beautiful thing that they had rehearsed the whole time.
03:19And then I get a notification from our COVID team that we had a false, maybe false positive,
03:27but we had to retest one of the background.
03:29And I was like, which one?
03:32And it was the kid that Bradley Cooper is supposed to have an altercation with.
03:36And they get up in each other's face.
03:39So the rehearsing, we're just standing there basically waiting for the next test to get cleared.
03:44And for like an hour, they're rehearsing this thing.
03:47We're just standing there waiting for the test results to come back before I'm going to have to shut the whole scene down.
03:52And or some...
03:53Anyway, it came back positive like 10 minutes before we had to roll on that shot.
03:56I mean, it came back negative.
03:57Oh, okay, okay, okay.
03:5910 minutes.
04:00Like, that's not a happy ending.
04:01We got an all clear like 10 minutes before we had to go.
04:04But it was quite stressful.
04:05Also, it was scary times of pandemic where you didn't know how bad COVID was going to hit somebody.
04:11So it was a nightmare.
04:13Mark, I saw you nodding along.
04:14Is yours COVID related too?
04:16I have a COVID story, but I'll tell a different one.
04:19I was making a film with the brilliant actor Ryan Gosling,
04:22something we'd developed together called Drive, about a getaway driver in Los Angeles.
04:28It's a beautiful script.
04:29Hasamini wrote the script.
04:30And we were on the set the first day.
04:33And Ryan, who has a very specific process, said, you know,
04:37this is a character that doesn't speak much.
04:39So I don't think I'm going to say much of this dialogue.
04:42And it was an independently financed movie.
04:44And I froze for a moment because I thought people have put all and he's not going to.
04:50And so I sweated a little bit.
04:51It never happened to me.
04:52And then the camera started rolling.
04:53And I knew in an instant that he'd made such a smart, intuitive, truthful decision because he's a gifted actor who can tell you everything with what's in the eyes.
05:06But that character didn't speak.
05:08It didn't say.
05:08And it made him so much more powerful.
05:10And I saw it instantly in the scene.
05:13And so I wept away the slip.
05:15Like, okay, we got it.
05:17Indeed.
05:18That's amazing.
05:19Nia, what about for you?
05:20With Hedda, we were supposed to shoot in the fall of 2023.
05:24And two days before we were supposed to shoot, the actors went on strike.
05:28Which, listen, I'm union strong.
05:30Let's go.
05:30But I was like, no.
05:33And we shut down.
05:35And I knew that I would lose actors.
05:37I knew that we might lose our location.
05:39I knew that we might lose the whole film.
05:40Spiraled for about three days.
05:43Went to Greece.
05:43Came back.
05:44And just was so amazed by my producing partners, the studio, Courtney Valenti, Lana Mayo, like, fighting to keep a movie alive.
05:52And I think two or three months later, we came back and we shot in January instead.
05:56But it was really, I mean, that whole week leading up to when the strike was announced, we were like, well, no.
06:01Is it going to happen?
06:01No.
06:02I mean, no, it's fine.
06:02Is it fine?
06:03No.
06:03You know, everyone doing that whole almost game of chicken.
06:06So, yeah, I swear to God there.
06:08I mean, that's completely fair.
06:09I want to dig a little bit more on that because it's like one thing to mount a production, period.
06:15It's another thing completely to remount it, as you were saying.
06:18In that process, where did you start when it came to remounting it?
06:23You know, what were the things that were lost?
06:26And then ultimately, you know, what were the surprises that were like, this came out of something that was so sweat-inducing?
06:33No, for sure.
06:33Well, the most amazing part was, one, that we survived the strike.
06:37But also, the owners of the house let us keep the house completely dressed for the entire time we were down.
06:44And, I mean, I think they also wanted to redo their roof.
06:47They were like, yeah, obviously you'd pay us more.
06:49But, like, you know, but it really wasn't that much.
06:51And they were so supportive of us.
06:52And they lived there as well.
06:54So, I mean, it's their second home.
06:55But they also lived there.
06:56And it was really lovely because I think everyone in that film on Head of really cared about it a lot and wanted to put everything into it, including the people we were renting the house from.
07:05But we lost two of our actors.
07:06Eve Hewson was cast.
07:07Callum Turner was cast.
07:08They were replaced by Imogen Poots and Tom Bateman, who are all amazing actors.
07:12So I didn't feel like I was losing anything there.
07:14I just thought, okay, well, this isn't our time now.
07:16We'll meet each other down the road, you know, for Eve and Callum.
07:20And then the biggest thing was there was a scene where everyone's, like, talking in a lake, you know, frisson, frisson, sexiness, et cetera.
07:27And then from a September shoot to a January shoot in the Midlands in the U.K. is not what we're going to be doing, putting actors in water, trying to get them to talk with their teeth, like, chattering.
07:39And so we, Sean and I, Sean Bob at my DP, we said, okay, not water.
07:45It'll be fire.
07:46We'll have a huge bonfire.
07:47And that will be how – people are in the lake, but they were, like, stunt doubles or, like, trained, like, cold water swimmers.
07:52And then we'll do everything else around this bonfire, and it was so much better than what it would have been.
07:57So, yeah.
07:58Joe, for you, the one thing that I – when watching F1 and then finding out that the actors are actually doing the driving, as a filmmaker, why was it important to have those actors be doing the driving?
08:11On the flip side of that, how do you get insurers in the studio to get behind that?
08:16Well, the reason to do it is because I do really believe the audience, they appreciate that, and they can feel it when something's done for real.
08:26I think we learned that on Top Gun Maverick, you know, shooting actors in real jets.
08:32So for F1, you know, the goal was to make the most authentic racing movie ever.
08:39And so that's what we set out to do.
08:40And it turns out both Brad and Damson are really naturally gifted drivers.
08:44They had the best teachers in the world, including my fellow producing partner, Lewis Hamilton, the seven-time world champion.
08:52So they trained for four months, and we built real race cars and shot at real Grand Prixs, all in an effort to try to capture, you know, the incredible experience of being at a Formula One race.
09:06Insurance-wise, yeah, there were a lot of conversations with the insurers.
09:10But, you know, again, they were well-trained.
09:14These were real race cars with real safety, you know, elements built into them.
09:19And the hardest thing to get the insurance company, you know, in their head was that these cars are safer the faster they're driven.
09:26So they only really work when they're driven very, very fast because they use downforce that pushes them down on the track.
09:33The brakes have to be hot to work.
09:35The tires have to be hot.
09:36So we spent a lot of time kind of explaining that.
09:39And once, you know, we got on the same page, Brad, you know, we were able, Brad was able to go 160, 180 miles an hour.
09:45Were they trying to give you like a speed cap for safety?
09:47There was a speed cap initially of 140, and it just wasn't fast enough to capture what we wanted to capture.
09:54But they proved lap after lap they could do it.
09:57And I think it, you know, the scariest moment was really the Las Vegas race, which is, you know, it's cold that time.
10:04So it was like 40 degrees at night.
10:06The tires got cold.
10:07The brakes got cold.
10:08Brad and Damson were not able to practice on that track before the actual shoot.
10:13We got a 15-minute window to shoot the scene.
10:16There's no runoff on that track.
10:19So if they did have a mistake, they'd go right in the wall.
10:22So of all the sequences, that one was, you know, going back to your first question, that was the most sweat-inducing.
10:28But again, they did great, and we pulled it off.
10:31I mean, I just found out that brakes don't work on those cars until they're very hot.
10:36And that is incredible.
10:38Sarah, for you, Paul Thomas Anderson, your director, really places an emphasis on location shooting.
10:45And you had gorgeous locations in this film.
10:48And I feel like one that gets called out a lot is the own car chase scene in a way.
10:53Maybe not going 100 to 60 at 180 miles per hour in years, though.
10:58But is that car chase sequence with, I believe you guys called it the River of Hills?
11:03River of Hills.
11:03How did you all find that?
11:06And then ultimately, how did you pull off that sequence in terms of choreography?
11:12It felt like dancing almost.
11:14Yeah.
11:16Yeah.
11:16I mean, Paul, I think for this film in particular, spent several years scouting with, well, or Rencia Martin, his production designer, and Michael Glazer, his location manager.
11:25And because I think we were looking for the film to feel very authentic and sort of contextual.
11:32And so we really wanted it to be a traveling show.
11:36So anyway, they accidentally found this River of Hills while looking for a different location.
11:41But it was, I think they were driving at night and going over these hills and all of a sudden started feeling the terror of, like, not knowing what was on the other side of these hills and how fast you were going and how there was no foresight.
11:55So that very quickly got worked into the script for that final sequence.
11:59But, you know, it was a lot of coordination with Adam Sumner, our AD, and my fellow producer, and Brian McLeight, our stunts coordinator, with those cars and making sure we're getting the right light.
12:11But we shot it over, like, four days.
12:15We actually shot that sequence over four days because we could only shoot in the morning and the evening for the light.
12:21And at the end of it, I remember Adam came up to me and he was like, we have to come back in the fall for the light.
12:27And I was like, you've got to be kidding me.
12:30We've been shooting for four days.
12:31We did not.
12:32We did not have to go back.
12:34But, no, I mean, it was sort of understanding the dailies and going back to pick up pieces over the course of those days.
12:42Just a matter of interest, if you're shooting in the morning and you're shooting in the evening, did you shoot between?
12:46No.
12:47We were in the middle.
12:47There's nothing else to shoot.
12:49What was so incredible to see in your movie, and you touched on it, is just how much of California is shown.
12:55And there is such a conversation right now about getting productions back into California.
13:01So I'm wondering, and this is a question for everyone, you know, what is it that can happen here that will bring you back to film in the state?
13:11Several of you have filmed here.
13:13You know, what would you like to see in order to bring productions back here?
13:18I mean, I think for me, I try to go to the most authentic place to shoot.
13:23What's unique about Los Angeles is that anything you need is here, unless you need to shoot in a, I was going to say desert, but also that's here.
13:31But actually, what I love about California in particular is that California is a state that has almost every kind of terrain, every kind of ecosystem.
13:37It's a really beautiful state.
13:39It's my favorite state, but I'm from New York City.
13:40That's my favorite city.
13:41But to me, it's really about, like, is it set here?
13:45Like, what can I, what can, because I know there's, like, tax credits and incentives and all these things.
13:49But when I think about shooting here, I'm really thinking about, like, what can I get here that I can't get anywhere else?
13:54I think there's a lot.
13:55But I think it just depends.
13:56Like, I haven't had a movie, my last movie shot in the U.K.
14:00Two of them are set in the U.K., so there's no real incentive for me to come all the way out here to do it.
14:04But I don't think I've actually shot in L.A.
14:07Oh, my God.
14:07I don't think I've shot in L.A., actually.
14:08So what do I know?
14:09Mark, as someone who has shot in Los Angeles, you know, what are the upsides of shooting here, and what would you like to see to bring more productions back?
14:20Well, selfishly, the biggest upside is you get to go home every night, and for those of us who live here, and get up in the morning with your family and then go to work.
14:28So that was the biggest upside.
14:30I've used California mostly for L.A., for when the story's been L.A.
14:34Like, I've only shot a few movies here, and Drive was set in L.A., and La La Land was set in L.A., and Babylon, that Flo was the designer on, was set in around L.A.
14:46I made a movie years ago called Legally Blonde with Reese Witherspoon that wasn't set in L.A., but it was all shot here.
14:51I think it's a lot economics, and, I mean, there's a lot of, and you've made a lot of studio films on set because you're building worlds.
15:00And you've done that more than anybody in terms of creating fantasy and worlds, and so a lot of the musical films I've done, not La La Land, are worlds that you build, and they, therefore, can be built anywhere.
15:12And it's a question of the craftsmanship to build, which is, and is the tax incentive at all angles enough to incentivize a cost of a movie that has a large construction budget and a large painting budget and et cetera?
15:27You can speak to that probably better than anyone.
15:29Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more.
15:31I've shot three times recently in L.A., and the only reason we filmed here was because we couldn't film anywhere else.
15:39It's an economic imperative.
15:44The new rebate here or the added rebate will help, but I don't know that it's enough, to be honest with you.
15:51The system in the U.K. is very clear in terms of how you qualify.
15:55There's no limit to, I mean, you even get credit on back-end.
16:01It's incredible.
16:02And we have great crews.
16:06This film I just produced, we worked with a British crew in the U.K.
16:10It was fantastic.
16:11We shot here mostly with an American crew because a part of it took place in Los Angeles.
16:18My producer, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, can't shoot that anywhere else.
16:22And we did get the tax credit.
16:23But I think, as you say, it's about the pleasures that are undeniable.
16:29The quality of the crew is undeniable.
16:31But it's an economic choice, really, unless you have no, you know, something like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, you have something like a marriage story, something like Jay Kelly.
16:44You have no choice.
16:45Yeah.
16:46And I did want to ask you about Jay Kelly.
16:49That is your third time working with Noah Baumbach as a director, correct?
16:54And I know there's, I know you've worked with him as a writer a little bit.
16:58Yeah, as a writer on Barbie.
16:59Yeah, I am wondering, when you work with someone over the course of multiple productions, how does your collaboration grow?
17:08Is there a greater understanding?
17:10You know, what, from moving from marriage story, you know, now to Jay Kelly, do you understand about each other?
17:16Do you understand about Noah and his needs?
17:19I just think it's about communication and understanding.
17:23So I understand now that Noah requires a lot of rehearsal.
17:27So you've got to carve that out in terms of the deals you're making.
17:32He does a lot of takes, but he always makes his days.
17:35He's very efficient in that regard.
17:38But he does many takes in searching for the exact performance.
17:42But understanding his needs, that's evolved over making three films.
17:47And the ease of communication.
17:49He's a producer too.
17:52So there's a certain amount of pragmatic, but as a director, that pragmatism has a limit.
17:58And he is forever, as he should and as you want, is pushing the boundaries of what is possible.
18:04Well, the pleasure of now the third film is being able to say, please, stop.
18:17Going back to your first question, you know, I think the most difficult position for a thing for a producer is when you have to say no to something that you want to say yes to.
18:26I think that really is the, you know, and often you find, you know, new solutions and sometimes it can be good things can come from that, obviously.
18:37But so working with Noah, I think it's really a privilege and a pleasure.
18:43I learn from him so much each day and on each film and just communication.
18:50I always think that from talking to producers, you all would make incredible therapists and also maybe hostage negotiators.
18:59I am wondering when it comes to keeping that relationship between filmmakers and the studio or filmmakers and financiers,
19:09how do you feel that is the job of the producer and how ultimately do you make sure everyone is getting ultimately what they need?
19:17Maybe not what they want every time, but what needs to happen for the movie.
19:22Seb, I'm going to you again.
19:23Yeah, no, I mean, I would say that's definitely one of the jobs that, you know, one of the hats we definitely wear.
19:29I mean, on Sinners in particular, this was Ryan's fifth movie and he's done so well for himself, undeniably,
19:36but this is going to be an original movie for the first time and it's a deeply personal story for Ryan.
19:41On paper, maybe it's some of the things that studios wouldn't necessarily look for.
19:44It's period, predominantly black cast, you know, musical elements.
19:48There's vampires in the movie, but they don't show up for a while.
19:50So it's like we were going for something very bold, but we were really fortunate with our studio, Warner Brothers,
19:55you know, Mike and Pam, Jesse, the whole team over there.
19:57They were actually quite understanding.
19:59And of course, we had challenges in making the movie, you know, who doesn't?
20:03But I think this was, you know, I've known Ryan now for so long.
20:07We went to film school together.
20:08You know, I helped produce his first movie, Fruitvale Station.
20:10All those years of collaboration, I think, just like you were saying, like, it's definitely been a matter of communication.
20:16I think we've had a much larger trust in each other.
20:19And, you know, Zinzi Kugler, our other partner and our department heads, we've all worked with together so many, so many times.
20:24And I think Ryan has just reached a level of comfort with every one of us that he's good to push us.
20:29And we're there to help support him and make it happen.
20:31And in this particular case, you know, we're really grateful it kind of worked out.
20:34Yeah, definitely.
20:37Mark, I am wondering, you know, what are certain things that you are willing to fight for
20:42and certain things that you are willing to let go of and how do you decide that?
20:46Look, I think all of us as producers work to create environments for which our creative team does their best work.
20:54And it starts with the filmmaker.
20:56And every filmmaker is different.
20:57It's communication.
20:58In the same way that directing an actor, some actors have this kind of process and some have that.
21:04And a good director will find the language and the grammar to get the actor to go where they want.
21:09And it's no different for a producer.
21:11So I think we look at each environment, meaning some directors are strong at certain things.
21:16Some are strong at everything.
21:17Some aren't.
21:18Some need you right next to them at the monitor.
21:20Some do a little better when you step back and you come in.
21:23And you find your way and then it's not one size fits all.
21:27And I do think it's our job in the financing and studio side to be the navigators of that, to be good partners.
21:34I'm a big believer in being a good partner with my studio, my financier.
21:38And I'm sure they are taking risks as well.
21:41But I am always aware of the line over which I don't want to go.
21:46And so to give a specific example, and I have extraordinary partners on the Wicked films, Universal.
21:52Couldn't have been better.
21:53But Nathan and John Chu, Nathan Crowley, designed to come up with this train that was very significant to me that takes the characters from into the Emerald City.
22:05The movie could exist without a train.
22:08The story doesn't change.
22:09But I intuit it and understood not only that their wants were there, but I felt it was cinematically, you need to go somewhere.
22:18It was such a big moment for this character to go.
22:20And I knew I needed to have something.
22:23And, you know, the budget was big and I want to cut back.
22:25So that's a fight I'm willing to do.
22:27But it's backed up with the intention of what we're doing and why we're doing it.
22:33Yeah, definitely.
22:33It's about making sure that that balance stays there, that it's never going one way or the other.
22:41That's right.
22:42Joe, I'm wondering for you as a producer, but also as a director, at what times are you putting on your producerial hat?
22:49And what times are you putting on your filmmaker hat?
22:51And are you leaning on your producers to be able to be like to say the please no or the, you know, like this is.
23:00Well, I'm here as a producer representing an amazing lineup of producers.
23:04We had on F1 with Jerry and Chad from Bruckheimer Films, Jeremy, Didi and Brad from Plan B, and then Lewis Hamilton as well.
23:14So I had an amazing group around me of incredible experience and incredible taste.
23:21So for the most part, yeah, as, you know, as the director, you know, this movie came out of a dream to shoot a film, you know, at live events.
23:31But certainly the producer side understood that it's a little bit insane to shoot your film in nine minute windows, putting it all on the line every single day.
23:43But I felt like I had such a great team around me and such an amazing crew that everyone kind of rose to the challenge.
23:51And yes, we certainly had some headwinds.
23:54You know, the SAG strike, which, you know, delayed your film, hit me on day six where I lost four of my actors.
24:02But because we were based in the UK, it was largely an equity show and a UK crew.
24:07So I switched from first unit director to second unit director and continued shooting for 38 days and was able to kind of keep the crew working.
24:16And actually, as, you know, as we find when when adversity strikes in the long run, it can be a really positive thing.
24:23And for our film, having, you know, the ability to have a little downtime in the middle and then come back and finish it up the second year made the film better.
24:33But, yeah, certainly in my own head, there were days where I'm like in the back of my head saying, is this insane?
24:40What am I doing?
24:41And Nia was there, I guess, for one of those days, too.
24:44Yeah, for Sersten, yeah.
24:45How was it being on the ground there?
24:47You're insane, bro.
24:49Like, it reminded me of when I was younger and first falling in love with film.
24:53Because my feeling was, oh, you can do anything in this medium.
24:56And to be on set when you're, you have Javier Bardem and Tobias Menzies, like, doing these takes over and over again, like, camera rolling.
25:04And then there's a race that's about to start around you.
25:05I was like, this is amazing.
25:06Like, of course you can do that.
25:07Because so many people would tell you, you can't do that.
25:09That's not possible.
25:10But when you have yourself and the producers that you have, you find that actually anything is possible.
25:15So it took me back to what I love about film.
25:17I love that.
25:20There's several movies that are available in premium formats.
25:25Yes, several of your films were.
25:27For Sinners, you all went into production knowing that you would be offering several of these for exhibition.
25:38How important was that in terms of pushing for those premium formats?
25:44And, you know, what is it that you think audiences are drawn to about these, especially younger audiences that seem to be going to these more and more?
25:52Yeah, I mean, it was a major drive for us to make the movie the way we did.
25:57And, you know, when we were in post and we were getting close to the release, you know, we knew we had made a good movie.
26:03We really believed in it.
26:04But the question is always like, will the audience show up?
26:07You know, that's always a question today.
26:09And I remember we were, you know, having one of those late nights in the edit talking about, oh, if only there was a way that people could know how much we put into this film.
26:18Specifically, the way we shot it, large format, combining these various types of film and all the trouble our amazing cinematographer Autumn went through.
26:26And Ryan one day was like, what if we just tell them?
26:28We just had Ryan for 10 minutes talk about different film formats, the way we shot Sinners and why we shot it that way.
26:35And specifically, like, what are the various ways you can see this film?
26:38If you wanted to go see it in theaters and what the differences are of various of these films, we put that out there.
26:43And I genuinely think it made a real difference because I think people saw, you know, Ryan's passion for the medium.
26:48And I think it really just educated them that there's ways you can see films in theaters.
26:53So it was a big deal for us.
26:54I was telling Joe I saw his film in 40X, like spilling my popcorn everywhere.
27:00You know, I think, you know, I'm a big believer in the theatrical experience.
27:03I always say, like, I don't think there's any bigger impact culturally than a film that sweeps theaters across the world.
27:09And the fact that our movie, you know, worked the way it did and people were seeing it multiple times in different formats, you know, it was a big deal for us.
27:16Because I really believe in the idea of people seeing a movie in a communal space.
27:20Yeah, definitely.
27:21And Sarah, for you, I know you had the VistaVision, which is incredible.
27:25What was it like being able to offer that?
27:29And ultimately, what did you learn from that experience, seeing these screens?
27:34We'll start there with that look.
27:36And ultimately, you know, what did you learn from audiences' interests?
27:40Yeah.
27:41No, I mean, it was actually coming off the heels of Sinners, actually.
27:44I think that the studio was really, you know, embracing.
27:47Although we had gone in shooting VistaVision and always planned that.
27:50And I think for Paul, you know, that's part of what he loves.
27:54I mean, you know, but he was also like, well, we've done 70mm, what else can we do?
27:59And so he had started looking at the VistaVision cameras years ago.
28:03And we had experimented a little bit on a music video that we did for Tom York.
28:09And at the time, the cameras weren't ready.
28:12There were very few of them.
28:14And they hadn't been properly refurbished.
28:16And there were a couple that we had rumored, heard rumors about that were going to be, you know, becoming available.
28:22So anyway, as we started planning the shoot, we finally did come into like having Giovanni Ribisi actually had the best models.
28:32He has been refurbishing them for many years.
28:36Giovanni.
28:37Yeah, Giovanni.
28:38Anyway, we went into the production.
28:39I think Paul was very excited.
28:40We also did have the privilege of watching our film dailies with the VistaVision projector as well.
28:47And so we could see how magnificent it was.
28:50There's so much texture.
28:52And I think from the get, that was something Paul wanted to infuse into the theatrical experience.
28:57So we also then therefore had to start very early on the projectors because they also didn't exist.
29:03And we, at the time of the release, I think we had four, Boston, New York, L.A., and London.
29:11And it's beautiful and magnificent.
29:13And I hope that people continue.
29:14And I think they will.
29:15And already the cameras are being used.
29:17But it was, you know, because of Sinner's success, I think, in all the formats that Warner Brothers really embraced that as well.
29:25And sort of set us up for success with these projectors in these specialty locations, as well as the IMAX and the 70 millimeter.
29:32So, but yeah.
29:33No, I mean, I think it's, we kind of, it's part of the, like, retaining and, like, eventizing the theatrical experience right now.
29:40And I think we kind of all have to lean into it.
29:43Mm-hmm.
29:44Yeah.
29:44And educate, continue to educate the youth because that's who's going to the movies and they love it.
29:49I think they're eager to see the large formats and it's become rather competitive, the window.
29:55I also love when they're different ones.
29:57Because I saw, the reason why I saw One But After Another twice is because I saw VistaVision.
30:01But I love IMAX.
30:01I'm a big IMAX person.
30:02I was like, what would so many more IMAX be like?
30:04And so a friend of mine who also saw VistaVision, we went and saw it, so many more IMAX.
30:08And it was just comparing the two and, like, talking about that.
30:11Like, I think that's another way to invent that.
30:12It's not just watching it once, but going again.
30:14Yeah.
30:14Which is awesome.
30:15It's also transportive on a big screen.
30:17Yeah.
30:17And people, they come out of your life for a little bit in this world we're living in.
30:22That's what film can offer, cinematic experience can offer.
30:25So, the largesse.
30:27Transpulsive and immersive.
30:28And immersive, yeah.
30:29Yeah.
30:29Well, it's funny.
30:29I think I went to see Top Gun.
30:31I think the IMAX was sold out and I went to see In the Dolby.
30:34And I thought it was going to lift out of the theater.
30:37It was, like, shaking and rumbling and it was great.
30:40The great thing about these premium formats is you also know the theater is going to be set up to spec.
30:46So, the volume's going to be turned up to seven and the bulb's going to be bright and you're going to get that reference quality.
30:53And, you know, I'm sure we've all been to preview screenings where you show up at, you know, a neighborhood theater.
30:59And so, true.
31:00It's horrifying.
31:01Yeah.
31:01And you see just kind of what the standard is out there.
31:05And so, with these premium formats, you know you're going to get what the filmmaker intended.
31:10And I think that's so important.
31:12And I encourage all the exhibitors, you know, to try to get that standard.
31:17You know, there used to be something called THX where you knew everything was going to be set up.
31:22But that's so important now.
31:23You know, like we're saying, we've got to get people out of their homes, off their phones, into the theaters and give them an experience that they won't forget.
31:31And the theater can do that when it's done right.
31:33Yeah.
31:33This is making me miss Arclight Hollywood because I remember growing up that was, like, where you knew you were always going to get that exact experience.
31:40Fun fact, I proposed to my wife at the Arclight Hollywood.
31:43Oh, my God.
31:44You know, Natalie, you know.
31:46Yeah, we've got to reopen Arclight Hollywood for no other reason.
31:49I don't understand how it's not.
31:50It's like, I'm so confused.
31:51I heard a rumor.
31:52I've been seeing a rumor for years.
31:54I mean, I've lost hope.
31:56I need it back so bad, guys.
31:58It's always a rumor.
31:59We need to put some more costumes and get some wicked, you know, for good costumes in the foyer.
32:02You know, we need to get that place back open then.
32:04The other thing you always hear about getting people into theaters is the movie star talent and how that has changed if people are going to certain talents.
32:12So many of these films have big talents in them, whether it's Michael B. Jordan or Leo or Brad or George.
32:19I am wondering, is there an inherent difference between the Georges and the Brads of the world and the younger talent that's coming up in the industry right now?
32:29Or is it about audiences' tastes have shifted?
32:33I do think there was a time in the film culture where you waited for the next movie of a particular movie star.
32:41And that was the brand, right?
32:44And I think the younger folks ask more of their brand.
32:48It's either familiarity with the material or the source or it is the marriage of a particular actor to a story or brand where one plus one equals three.
32:59And then that becomes the brand.
33:01There are very few actors, I think, that are automatic.
33:04But you put an actor people are aware of in the right concept, in the right story, then it's combustible and it becomes its own brand, so to speak.
33:13In some way that's always been the case, don't you think?
33:15Maybe, but there was a time in the 90s and early 2000s where what's the next Arnold Schwarzenegger movie?
33:25What is the next Julia Roberts?
33:27And there are wonderful actors and where that was the brand and you waited.
33:32Luckily, there are still filmmakers who are brands.
33:35I think Ryan's become a brand.
33:37PTA, I think, has always been a brand.
33:39And so I think that's a change in the culture.
33:45Just thinking, hearing you say that, because I was watching Witness for the first time, actually, last week.
33:50And I was like, got obsessed with Harrison Ford again, went through his whole filmography.
33:53Wasn't that a good movie?
33:53I mean, it's fantastic, fantastic.
33:55That was a great movie.
33:56But like, all those genres have like migrated to streaming.
33:59So like the rom-com has migrated to streaming.
34:01Like the sort of smart thriller has migrated to streaming in a way that I think that's also why.
34:06Because a lot of these stars would be in those kinds of movies.
34:09And now they're not really given the theatrical treatment in the same way, which I find really interesting.
34:14And I think people do respond to originality and anything done in a surprising way.
34:20I think F1 was a completely immersive, you know, in a way that was just so extraordinary.
34:28I'd never seen anything like it.
34:30I think Sinner's film, wholly original.
34:33And these are films, I think audiences want that.
34:36I think they're hungry for that.
34:37I think the financiers are less willing to embrace them, to give, you know, Apple, Warner's credit with your film too.
34:46And, you know, we need more of that.
34:48It's really the financiers.
34:49Because I do believe that, I want to believe, maybe it's a naive belief, that if you make it and it's extraordinary,
34:56and I think original films can be extraordinary, you're proof of it, they will come.
35:02I think so too.
35:03There is a new pressure of these windows of you having a certain amount of time because of streaming.
35:09Yes, it's true.
35:10That puts a pressure on that opening that one can, on the negative side, say it has a mitigating fact against something completely original.
35:18It's true.
35:19Without a star.
35:20But I think it's up to these talented folks and all the filmmakers you work with to keep telling the stories, as I said, that meet the moment.
35:28And all of a sudden, the unexpected happens and then it's Hollywood.
35:31Everybody wants to do what the unexpected happens and that becomes a thing right away, right?
35:36But I also, I think that what happens is it is hard for originals, undoubtedly.
35:41But when an original doesn't succeed, it somehow carries more weight than if an IP doesn't succeed.
35:47Why do you think that is?
35:48Because everybody is looking for some security and it's much more security when you're making something that has, you know, it was movie stars, as you say.
35:58And I think having that IP allows people who are making decisions to feel more comfortable and justify the choice.
36:07And as we all say, we are competing with so many different media.
36:11I mean, I understand it.
36:12I really do.
36:13You're competing with so many different forms of entertainment on phones, on television screens, and everywhere, you know, TikTok and beyond.
36:24And so to make some, to actually, and with all the noise, to actually have a film that awareness and people, it's hard.
36:34It's hard.
36:35But films can still, I believe, achieve something that none of these other mediums can even get close to.
36:41And that's what's exciting to me, is when you have the right group of people, when you have Michael B. Jordan and Ryan get together, or you have Brad Pitt with F1, you know, because it only would have been made with Brad Pitt.
36:53So you need the familiar, but you also need to surprise people.
36:56But when the right team comes together, film can surpass any other medium.
37:02And that's what I like to believe in, you know.
37:04I couldn't agree with you more.
37:05That's why we do what we do.
37:07That's why you stick in it, Sean, definitely.
37:09There is something that I noticed this year that reached an uptick where there was a general obsession with box office and budgets and profitability.
37:21Seven, Sarah, I feel like this particularly hit with, like, sinners in one battle after another.
37:26Are you annoyed by this conversation?
37:28Or, you know, is there ever a productive conversation when it comes to something like profitability,
37:34which is such a nebulous term and hard to pin down?
37:42No, I mean, I think, yes.
37:45The dialogue specifically around, I think, you know, Warner Brothers and the studio over this last year was unfortunate.
37:53It was just an unfortunate dialogue, I think, that was kind of counterproductive to the projects and the films that were being made.
38:01And I'm happy to see them on the other side of that now because I think, you know, to your point about original films,
38:07they were taking a lot of risks and they were taking a lot of leaps.
38:10And I think that was at the forefront of their agenda.
38:12And it paid off.
38:16Yeah, definitely.
38:17People are always still going to want to go to theaters.
38:19And they'll make great films and original films to David's point.
38:22Yeah.
38:22When it comes to Wicked, you've been with it for over two decades now in various iterations.
38:30I'm wondering now that this second film is coming out, what do you anticipate it feeling like after working on this for so long over the course of two films with the stage production?
38:42Do you think there will be a sadness there or are you excited for it?
38:44I mean, it's definitely been an overwhelmingly emotional experience, a very specific journey than any other film.
38:53And the stage production, it's still part of my life and my world, thankfully.
38:57But it's definitely a culmination.
38:59I started to make it as a film when I first began and really took a left turn to make it into a musical on stage first.
39:07And so I waited until I felt I had the tools as a producer and I had the stature to be able to make it the way I wanted to, still be a good partner with the studio.
39:17And then I was lucky to find a filmmaker in John Chu who was, you know, that was just the right marriage of a filmmaker to material and from day one.
39:28So it's very emotional for me.
39:31And so there are tears.
39:33We should figure out the next incarnation.
39:35Yeah.
39:35Do you think it could exist in any other sort of iteration?
39:39Do you see shepherding that for yourself?
39:42Well, it will always be hard for me as long as I'm breathing to let go completely of Wicked.
39:46Although that was all the other one.
39:47The challenge is to let really creative people like John Chu and my designers come in and say, we're going to interpret it this way.
39:55And for me not to say that's not the way we do it.
39:57It was also like, honestly, a wrestling match inside me, I have to say, to find that balance.
40:03But we'll say you never know.
40:04You never know.
40:05We are living in a world of brands, so you can imagine your partners go like that.
40:10But let's everybody enjoy and embrace this film, hopefully, and be satisfied by it, and then we'll move on from there.
40:17It sounds like, one, you wanted the story to find the fandom, and then also you didn't want to then disappoint those fans with this.
40:26That feels like a very tenuous situation.
40:30How ultimately did you toe that line and make sure that it was something that didn't destroy the production?
40:37It's a challenge.
40:38David's been through it because he took the most popular series of books ever and very successfully created wonderful cinematic experiences with Harry Potter brilliantly.
40:47It's a balance.
40:51We had this phrase between John and I, is this Bible or not Bible, and it's an intuition.
40:57There are certain things I just knew, this is wicked.
41:00And, you know, it's like any fanboy adaptation.
41:04We used to call it fanboy comics, et cetera, super, of what will people miss or not miss.
41:09It's one of the reasons it's two movies.
41:10So I didn't want to start chopping down things I knew fans would love.
41:14But the rule I had was if there's something that's additive, like, and I would know if it were additive, meaning a change that worked better on film by omitting something, or something that was further elaborated or amplified, and I could see it was additive to the character and the journey, and just then that was my litmus test.
41:34Yeah, definitely.
41:35David, for you, how is it to jump back into that world of something with Harry Potter that you've seen through films and now through stage and then going back into it again, knowing all of this, you know?
41:48I had nothing to do with the stage, but similar to Mark, it's both exciting because I think there are real opportunities, and it's exciting to see it interpreted through other people's eyes.
41:58For me, the key is finding, and I think it's true on any project, an original or an adaptation, but particularly with any project, is finding collaborators who you share a vision with and people who are as passionate about what you're doing as you are.
42:16So there's no way, there's no objective thing that people love about, and there may be certain things, but people take different things from Wicked, and the same with Harry Potter.
42:27And so it's about trusting your instinct, as you say, it's intuition, and making sure you have partners who have a similar intuition, have a similar passion for the material.
42:38And if you do that, then you're actually pretty safe, and I think that you capture the spirit of something as much as you can't do it every single element.
42:51For example, from a book, it may be different from, you know, yours began with a book, too, so you can't do every element.
42:59So it's about understanding what you're doing and having partners who, creative partners, who share that vision and passion.
43:08Definitely.
43:08Well, with these final few minutes here, we do this series called Rapid Round, where it's these, it's meant to be these faster, faster questions, just throwing out your opinions.
43:21They're meant to be a little bit more fun.
43:23I hope you agree.
43:26The first one here, ideal runtime for a movie?
43:31Two hours and seven minutes.
43:32Incredible.
43:33Hour 47.
43:34Hour 49.
43:35Whatever the story requires.
43:39Okay, but really, though.
43:40He's a safe one.
43:42I've seen films that are four hours, and it works.
43:49Yeah, whatever it demands.
43:52There's no right or wrong, but that is the right answer.
43:56There's some movies I've seen at 86 minutes that were far too long.
43:59There are movies that I've seen at three and a half hours where I wished it would just go on.
44:03Yeah, that's what it is.
44:05But it's an hour 47.
44:06But it's, yeah, just to be clear, the correct answer is an hour 47.
44:11If we were to look at your, all of your IMDb's, what would be the most surprising credit on there?
44:18I did a Taco Bell commercial, which is on my IMDb.
44:21Mm-hmm.
44:22So, yeah.
44:24I did a Chinese Mandarin language movie that I was like a junior producer on in my early indie film days coming up.
44:29I'm very proud of that movie.
44:30I don't understand any of the dialogue, but it's a good movie.
44:35And you know what?
44:35That's the language of cinema.
44:37I think when you're starting off, you don't, you know, I think when I'm starting off, there may be some things.
44:41When I look back at the early stages of my career where I go, ooh, quite a few of those.
44:48You know, I made a film about a blind gunslinger called Blind Justice.
44:52It's a great title.
44:53It's not my proudest moment.
44:59I got to say, that's the first thing I'm going to watch when I get home.
45:02That sounds absolutely incredible.
45:04Now, David, I'm not going to ask you who is going to get cast as James Bond, unless you want to tell me right now, in which case I will ask you that.
45:13But I will ask everyone else who, if you're dream casting James Bond.
45:19Oh, thank you.
45:20Yeah.
45:20Let's give David some ideas here.
45:23I like Def Patel.
45:27I'm going to sit there.
45:29Jamel Westman.
45:30He's an actor.
45:31He was in my movie, Hedda.
45:31He originated Hamilton in London, actually.
45:34He's amazing.
45:35He's very tall and very hot and a great actor.
45:38Oh, there you go.
45:39I'll throw Damson Idris in the mix, having just worked with him.
45:42Yeah.
45:43Fantastic actor.
45:44Yeah.
45:45I would love an unknown that's a discovery.
45:48I think there's something that would be very exciting about discovering someone I don't know and having him step into those shoes.
45:55Yeah.
45:56Out of the blue.
45:58I mean, could we have a female James Bond?
46:00This is your dream casting.
46:02Who would you like to see?
46:03I don't know that I have anybody in particular.
46:05I'm just spinning.
46:06Just throwing it out there.
46:07Yeah, throwing it out there.
46:08And then the final question wrapping up this roundtable, which thank you so much for this amazing conversation, is I am wondering, what was the movie that made you want to make movies?
46:18Mark, I made eye contact with you, so I'm starting with you.
46:21I'm so sorry.
46:22Oh, gosh.
46:23I mean, I don't know that there was one.
46:25I grew up in a time where everyone, there were certain films on television once a year and the family would gather around.
46:33Our little TV, for example, once a year to watch The Wizard of Oz, and that was quite an adventure.
46:40I can remember the first time my parents took me to see Mary Poppins was an adventure.
46:45I must have been four or five.
46:46And then as I go older, there just were touchstones of films where I thought that's, you know, The Godfather.
46:52Both one and two were just so, for me, immersive and just music and design and story and Shakespearean characters.
47:01And that I thought if I could touch that at some point, that would be kind of amazing.
47:06That's incredible.
47:08Sarah, what about for you?
47:10You know, I didn't plan on getting into film until I was working on the first set I worked on, which was Capote, Bennett Miller's Capote.
47:19I was working with Phil Hoffman, and I also didn't know anything about acting, and I didn't know anything about how movies were made or shot.
47:26But one, I got very familiar with the particular kind of acting in that movie with Phil, which was an incredible education and just respect for what that takes.
47:37But the, like, movie magic moment was when we were shooting in the car, and somebody, the Crips had, like, shoved a two-by-four under the back tire,
47:48and were just jumping on the two-by-four to make the car move.
47:52And then I was like, ah, like, movie magic.
47:57And that was the hook, yeah.
48:00Incredible.
48:01What about for you, Nia?
48:03Godfather's one of them.
48:04It's this sort of new American cinema era, like, Dark Day Afternoon, Godfather, Apocalypse Now.
48:10Like, those were my—I mean, I loved film for a long time, but that's when I was like, oh, that's a director.
48:16Director.
48:16Director.
48:17That director.
48:18And then that's when I knew what my job would be inside of it, and that was what really inspired me.
48:23Yeah.
48:25I mean, for me, it was Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.
48:28Like, that movie blew my mind when I saw it for the first time.
48:31I think I might have been in high school.
48:32Like, it took themes of, like, memory, identity, love, and really maximized, like, to the extent that the movie possibly could of exploring those in a really cinematic way.
48:43And I remember—it's a rare, like, 10 out of 10 movie for me where I was like, I just want to be involved in making something that might have this kind of impact on someone.
48:50Yeah, definitely.
48:52David, what about for you?
48:53Well, you know, one of the themes of Jay Kelly is, you know, our whole life is—no, in a way, our life is movies.
49:00You know, I can remember where I was when I met—what film I was working on, when I met my wife, when I had my son, et cetera, et cetera.
49:10And I think it's the same in terms of—there's no one movie that made me want to be in movies.
49:17I grew up around movies.
49:18But I suppose, for me, it's very similar in the night—you know, that period of the 70s was when I realized it might be something for me, you know, when I saw Hal Ashley movies in particular.
49:31You know, films like Harold and Maude or Being There or, you know, were films that—all of his films actually had such—shampoo.
49:42I watched it in high school and I was like, what's going on?
49:43You know, were films that really—were seminal films for me growing up.
49:51And I remember where I was when I watched each and every one of them.
49:54Yeah.
49:55Joe, you're bringing us home.
49:57Yeah, I mean, the first film I remember seeing in the theater was Raiders of the Lost Ark as a six-year-old.
50:03Did not sleep that night.
50:05Six years old!
50:06Now I'm realizing, probably not appropriate.
50:07But I don't think PG-13 existed then, so I'll give my dad a pass there.
50:12But the first movie that I really, I think, understood, you know, what a director was and what a director could create, probably 2001.
50:21Yeah.
50:23Yeah.
50:23Well, thank you all so much.
50:26I have no doubt that in the future people will be saying all of these movies were the ones that inspired them to make their own films.
50:35So thank you so much for taking the time to talk about them.
50:37It's so appreciated.
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