- 3 hours ago
Women-led micro and small enterprises sit at the heart of Malaysia’s social and economic resilience, yet many still operate without stable income, capital or support.
The recent Women of Will Entrepreneurship Development Programme (WOWED, an intensive initiative supported by the Malaysia UN-SDG Trust Fund, the United Nations, and Yayasan MySDG is helping shift this narrative by helping underserved women increase their earnings, strengthen household security and participate more fully in the economy.
Niaga Spotlight discusses how empowering women at the grassroots can shape Malaysia’s long-term growth story, with Datin Wira Goh Suet Lan, President, Women of Will, Anita Ahmad, CEO, Yayasan MySDG and Dr Richard Marshall
Senior Economist, Office of United Nations Resident Coordinator for Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei.
The recent Women of Will Entrepreneurship Development Programme (WOWED, an intensive initiative supported by the Malaysia UN-SDG Trust Fund, the United Nations, and Yayasan MySDG is helping shift this narrative by helping underserved women increase their earnings, strengthen household security and participate more fully in the economy.
Niaga Spotlight discusses how empowering women at the grassroots can shape Malaysia’s long-term growth story, with Datin Wira Goh Suet Lan, President, Women of Will, Anita Ahmad, CEO, Yayasan MySDG and Dr Richard Marshall
Senior Economist, Office of United Nations Resident Coordinator for Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello and welcome to Niaga Spotlight with me, Tamina Kaochi.
00:10Niaga Spotlight takes us to the week in economic analysis and future affairs.
00:14Today on Future Affairs, our spotlight is on investing in women MSMEs for real gains and real growth.
00:21Malaysia's micro and small enterprises are the backbone of the domestic economy.
00:2497.4% of all businesses contributing over 38% to GDP and employing roughly around 7.6 million people.
00:33Yet, women-led enterprises remain disproportionately small, informal and also undercapitalized.
00:40Today, we spotlight an initiative that proves what can happen when women in underserved communities get the right tools, coaching as well as beliefs.
00:48The Women of Will Entrepreneurship Program has recently graduated around 200 women from PPR and B40 communities.
00:55With verified data showing a 60% or so average increase in business income, stronger savings behavior and a visible rise in confidence and leadership.
01:03These are not small wins. They are indicators of upward mobility for households that have historically been locked out of opportunity.
01:10Now, at the same time, Malaysia is working to close its female labor force participation rate gap,
01:15with women's LFPR still hovering around 55% or so, trailing peers like Singapore and Vietnam.
01:22Now, every percentage point matters.
01:25The United Nations has estimated repeatedly that narrowing gender gaps in entrepreneurship and the workforce can add billions in foregone productivity back into the economy.
01:35So, the question we explore today is simple yet consequential.
01:38What does it take to move women from survival mode micro-enterprises into stable, investable MSMEs?
01:45And what can Malaysia gain when we get this right at scale?
01:49And we're not discussing this in theory.
01:50We have three leaders at the table living this work every day.
01:53Welcoming to the studios now, Dhatinweerah Goh Swetlan, president, Women of Will, together with Anita Ahmad, CEO of Yaya San MySDG,
02:02as well as Dr. Richard Marshall, senior economist at the United Nations, representing the Malaysia UN SDG Trust Fund.
02:09A very good morning to you all. Thank you all for joining us for the discussion.
02:13Swet, perhaps if I could get started by you telling us a little bit more about WOW's program with the women entrepreneurs in a bit more detail to situate us.
02:23Sure, of course.
02:24WOW's program is actually a minimum of a year to 18 months.
02:29Right.
02:29It begins with a recruitment whereby we actually look for women who are interested in either starting a new business or in scaling their businesses.
02:38We also focus on women who are at the bottom of the B40, earning an average of about $2,500 to about $3,500 in household income.
02:48So there are many phases to our program.
02:51The first phase being entrepreneurship development, where the women learn the skills of marketing, financial literacy, digital marketing,
03:00and also business coaching is an essential part accompanying that entrepreneurship development.
03:06So this actually develops the women individually as entrepreneurs.
03:11Phase two is what we call our community leadership development program.
03:15So this is developing a group of women to actually lead the community so that ultimately when we exit the community,
03:24the programs are sustainable, the efforts are sustainable.
03:28And phase three is where we actually develop community businesses run by the businesses themselves.
03:33So these include a community sewing center, community kitchen, which are run and managed by the women and the community themselves.
03:42Fantastic.
03:43So it does sound like you have a very organized structure to how you're actually rolling out the programs.
03:49I'm just curious to ask, So, because when it comes to proof of income growth,
03:53are you also noting that the women have increased agency in perhaps how they price the products and services,
04:01which of course are part of what forms the selling of the entrepreneurship?
04:06Yes, absolutely.
04:08The increased agency actually all begins with an intentional reset.
04:14At the beginning of all our programs, we actually teach the women to shift their mindsets
04:19from seeing business as survival from day to day to seeing business as something which they can invest in themselves for long term
04:27and which that they can grow themselves.
04:30We set the tone from day one of our training programs.
04:33It is not a short-term skills workshop, but it is a commitment to building a long-term enterprise.
04:40One of the women said to us, you know, dulu saya fikir untuk tiap hari saja, sekarang saya fikir bagaimana nak besarkan kedai.
04:49I used to think about my daily needs.
04:51Today I think about how I can actually grow my shop.
04:55And it is this shift in mindset that creates room for the women to develop qualitative change.
05:02So take costings for example.
05:04Many of the women sell to their neighbors and the pricing is based on what their neighbors can actually afford.
05:10Invisible costs such as manpower, electricity, transportation is not accounted for.
05:18But over time, as they learn the skills of cost calculation, they begin to make better practices.
05:25So we see a shift from random and guesswork pricing to informed pricing.
05:31We see women who have the confidence to actually say no to orders which are not profitable.
05:37That's right.
05:37And women who are able to justify cost increases, not out of fear, but on an informed basis.
05:44So this transformation is amazing in that these daily cost decisions actually help them manage their businesses in a more efficient way and manage larger scale businesses.
05:57Fantastic.
05:57Thank you very much for situating us very clearly along the arc that Women of Will has provided for these batch of women entrepreneurs.
06:06Anita, I'd love to of course allow us to dig a little bit deeper into the fact that of course we've got big ambitions as Malaysia around the SDGs.
06:14But we do still see women-led MSME struggling with access to finance, markets as well as care support, which of course tells you whether or not a program can be successful start to finish.
06:27Some perspectives around this.
06:28Sure.
06:29So you're right, Malaysia's aspirations under SDGs are very clear, especially on SDG 5 and gender equality.
06:36And as you mentioned before, even looking quite seriously into women's labor force participation and also sustainable economic growth under SDG 10.
06:44But the truth is, as you alluded to, these ambitions cannot be met if half of our MSME potential, our women entrepreneurs, continue to be held back by things like limited collateral or access to collateral or access to finance, thin credit files or no credit files at all, and especially low financial confidence.
07:04So from what I said, a program like Women of Will fundamentally shifts that conversation, it moves away from looking at women-led MSME as a charity case and it positions them as a pipeline of investable growth-driving enterprises.
07:23And I think this is the essential thing, is that a lot of the programs, especially that are funded by philanthropy organizations like ours, tend to be looking as more of a charity case.
07:32Let's support them for a while, and that's why it's quite important that Women of Will is actually tracking income, and not only income, but because they provide microloans as well, it's also the discipline to repay loans.
07:45So it's really getting them into how do you start being more financially responsible as well.
07:52So Women of Will doesn't simply train women, right?
07:55It builds actually the bankability of these women as well.
07:58So like you said, some of the price points and all those kind of different things, but actually how do you handle your finances?
08:04How do you then borrow?
08:05Because if you want to grow your business, you need to borrow, but are you investable in that sense?
08:10And so it teaches, like Sued said, that women how to manage money, price her products, track her sales and understand repayment discipline.
08:19And when a woman starts with no credit score and ends with a program with a verifiable financial footprint, with savings, with repayment history,
08:28then that is when she becomes visible or more likely to be visible to banks, investors and the wider market.
08:33And it also increases her confidence as well.
08:36Because I've actually worked with Sued for a very long time,
08:39and I've seen the transformation of a lot of the women that they've worked with where they didn't think that they could have the confidence to even borrow money.
08:48And there are, of course, some programs.
08:50And the irony is that there are a lot of good access for them, but they don't know how to access.
08:57And somehow or other, the information is not being brought to them.
08:59So I think the role of Women of Will is quite important to be that bridge of information as well.
09:04Because as a woman, as you know, and you alluded to that, right, most of Women of Will's beneficiaries,
09:10they are not only trying to be an entrepreneur or becoming or are entrepreneurs, but they are mothers and wives as well.
09:16So how do they manage all this information on access to finance, never mind the confidence to apply for it?
09:23And I think what the difference is with Women of Will's program is that it's a stage-by-stage kind of program.
09:30And it's a structured pipeline of market-friendly, financial, illiterate women entrepreneurs.
09:35And therefore, then the SDG financing becomes more of a strategic investment, not just a charity giving, right?
09:40And most importantly, the returns are measurable.
09:44You get things like higher productivity, more stable household incomes, and on top of that, stronger communities.
09:49Because the other thing about women that may be a bit different from men, from my observation,
09:54is that women need a lot of peer support.
09:56And they need a lot of encouragement because...
09:57The community network, and it also helps to have those within their direct community as part of the program.
10:03All right.
10:03So it's not like they're on the path.
10:04Because, as you know, becoming an entrepreneur is difficult in itself,
10:07let alone when you're starting at a much lower point.
10:11Exactly.
10:12Thanks very much for that.
10:13Richard, if I could go into, of course, looking at UN estimates that tell us a lot more about the gender gaps
10:20and labor force participation rate, and how you see that confluence of all of these questions,
10:27big questions, being answered really nicely via the Women of Will program that has also been funded by my SDG here.
10:33Yes, so Tamina, you're right, there is a big issue around women's participation in employment
10:38and in the economy more widely in Malaysia.
10:41And I think that the latest figure is a little bit better than you quoted in your introduction.
10:44It's around 57%.
10:46But if you look to men's participation, it's over 80%.
10:49So there's a very, very considerable gap.
10:50Yes, traditionally, always.
10:51There's a study by the World Bank in the pre-COVID period, but still very valid,
10:56that showed that if Malaysia addressed this gap, incomes could be 26% higher over the long run, right?
11:03A very, very considerable gain.
11:04A 2019 study, that was.
11:05Yeah, I think so, just pre-COVID.
11:07So there's a very big gain to be had here.
11:09So it's an excellent question you asked.
11:11But I think this project is one of many interventions that might be made to address this question.
11:16And below the macroeconomics, there's a microeconomics of women's participation as entrepreneurs
11:22or in the economy more widely as employees, of course.
11:26And that is around barriers to participation, barriers like child care,
11:31but also, crucially, things like confidence and access to finance, right,
11:35that women often have difficulties with.
11:37But there's another point I want to emphasize, too.
11:39This project specifically targets B40 women.
11:42It targets women at the lower end of the income distribution.
11:45Of course, lower-income households also face a risk constraint, right?
11:50It's much more risky, much more problematic for a lower-income household
11:54to take risks with very, you know, very limited savings, very limited assets.
11:59So this project also gets over that constraint.
12:01So I see this project really working at some of these microeconomic barriers to women's participation.
12:08And I think through this and other measures, then you can begin to realize some of these gains
12:12that are likely out there for their communities and also Malaysia as a whole.
12:17Exactly.
12:18Perhaps let's take the perspective a little more macro, then, Richard,
12:21about income stabilizing for women from the bottom 40%.
12:25Let's talk a little bit about the knock-on effects that there can be for the broader economy as well
12:30and why it's essential that we also keep this in mind, too.
12:35Sure.
12:35Yeah, it's another great question, actually, because in economics, there's something called the micro-macro paradox.
12:41So we see very good performance usually at the micro level in projects,
12:44but then we don't see that then in the local economy or in the wider economy.
12:48And I think, you know, by improving participation, you directly affect labor supply,
12:55which is a crucial component of economic growth.
12:58And you also improve productivity, you know, that women are then placed in the right jobs.
13:04There's a level playing field, so you see a finance reading being allocated in a superior way.
13:09So through these channels, you end up with economic gains.
13:12But I think the challenge is, in terms of measurement, is to disaggregate the data
13:17and try and trace these connections from the, you know, the work that Anita describes
13:23through the local economy and then to the wide, to the Malaysia economy at the national level.
13:30And that involves, would then make a case for, you know, upscaling, replicating these kind of projects nationwide.
13:37Exactly, because it's equally important to ensure that when it comes to B40 women,
13:41equitable opportunities are provided to women across peninsula, as well as East Malaysia, for example.
13:48You have, of course, all of these micro shifts, but does the UN also consider these building blocks
13:54for perhaps longer term economic resilience?
13:57I think COVID, of course, was a global shock, and it did highlight in particular how important it is
14:03for women in communities to be able to have that economic, not just purchasing power,
14:09but the ability to make a living.
14:12Yeah, for sure.
14:12I mean, in a macro sense, as part of the UN's diagnosis, this is an issue that's been raised
14:17in our country analysis and also reflected in the UN's cooperation framework.
14:22And it's not only about women, but it's also about, as you said, lower-income households,
14:27and it's also about geography.
14:29You know, there are big geographical inequities in Malaysia in terms of...
14:33Disparities.
14:33You know, if you look at some of the, you know, the more lagging states, there's very,
14:39very big gaps, you know, between participation in different states.
14:42So that's something the UN has highlighted.
14:45In terms of delivery, of course, it will be organizations like UNDP or like the International
14:49Labor Organization who are directly connected with improving the functionality of the labor
14:54market.
14:54But of course, it's important to emphasize that the labor market is crucial to delivering
14:59equitable growth alongside higher growth, because it's the chief means through which
15:04an economy becomes, in the old language, pro-poor.
15:07And today we refer to an inclusive economy.
15:09It's the chief mechanism through which the benefits of a growing economy are shared.
15:14That's right.
15:15Between groups, between genders, and between localities.
15:19Thanks, Richard.
15:20And all for the conversation and so far, we take a brief break.
15:23Don't go anywhere.
15:23We'll be right back with the rest of the discussion right here on Niaga Spotlight.
15:27Welcome back to Niaga Spotlight.
15:48Still with me, Tamina Kausjian.
15:49Today, the discussion is focusing on investing in women, MSMEs, real income as well as real
15:54gains.
15:55Yes, Sweets, going back right into the discussion.
15:57Now, let's talk deeper about the fact that, of course, most entrepreneurship programs do
16:02training and they stop there.
16:04I'd love to dig deeper into the actual long-term coaching and peer support, which WOW has been
16:10able to provide holistically for the women who have participated in the program.
16:15What does that actually look like on the ground, month to month?
16:18Oh, Kishra, I have to give credit to BCG.
16:22Our long-term business coaching program is actually designed in partnership with BCG.
16:30And beyond providing business support, helping them address challenges as well as providing
16:37motivation along the way, it also addresses things such as emotional resilience as well
16:43as psychological resilience.
16:44Bear in mind, as you mentioned earlier, the women are constantly multitasking, managing different roles.
16:51That's right.
16:52And it is so easy for them to give up at any moment, whenever they take on a new project,
16:57when they start a new business, or they're trying to actually scale up their businesses.
17:02And the role of the coach is essential in walking alongside them, not as a teacher, but as a
17:09partner, providing that motivation, providing that support, telling them that you can do
17:15this, helping them actually evaluate whether they are making the right choices, as well as
17:22responding to any questions which they have along the way.
17:25So this is actually one of the most critical components of our program, alongside the
17:30Entrepreneurship Development Program, because it works hand-in-hand with the women being
17:36there at their site, supporting them as they walk through this entrepreneurial journey.
17:41And it truly makes a difference in whether a woman drops out of the program, or whether
17:46she stays in this program to actually fulfill her dream of eventually starting a big business
17:52that can grow and impact not just herself, but her family and the rest of the community.
17:58Exactly.
17:58Now, it's also been, I'm sure, a learning experience for women of will, having overseen this entire
18:04program cycle, Sweat.
18:05So tell us, perhaps, what would be maybe the one to three most important design principles
18:12around this program, which could also then, perhaps in the near future, be replicated by other
18:19non-governmental organizations who do want to help bring this up to scale around the country?
18:25What would you not compromise on at all if you were to run the program again, and in a
18:30different location than what you did?
18:32Yes, of course.
18:33The three design principles, the first would be a community-based approach, implementing programs
18:39from grassroots level and not top-down.
18:42Community mapping would be the start of it.
18:44Going into the community, understanding what are the resources, what are the needs within
18:49the community, and in that way, when the program is implemented, you ensure that you are meeting
18:55the goals and the true needs of the community.
18:58Trust-building is an essential factor that accompanies this community engagement throughout.
19:04You cannot enter any community without being welcome.
19:08It's like any relationship.
19:09You have to get to know each other, you have to trust each other, and when that happens,
19:14then you have the engagement and the support to be able to implement your program successfully.
19:21The second is the business coaching, which we have spoken about, and thirdly, of course,
19:26is our interest-free business capital model combined with a repayment into a community development
19:33fund.
19:33So this business capital is essential because it provides women with the resources they
19:39need to either start a new business or to scale up.
19:43There's simply no extra cash lying around anywhere at all, and this is really critical for them
19:48to be able to start.
19:50Secondly, being interest-free is also important because they are able to begin on their small
19:56entrepreneurial journey without any debt, and that itself is a motivating factor.
20:01Having a debt hanging over your head is really difficult, and it affects you, I think, psychologically
20:07and emotionally as well.
20:08It is a huge burden.
20:10Thirdly, of course, is in our program, a percentage of this business capital is repaid into a community
20:18development fund, which is then implemented by the community for the community.
20:24Examples of this would include a youth compound ban, for example.
20:29It would include a multi-purpose hall in one of our communities, as well as public toilets
20:35set within a community environment.
20:38So these are all actually decided by the community based on their needs, and they are also implemented
20:44by the community, as well as sustained by the community.
20:48So this is a model that's very powerful because it actually encourages ownership, it builds
20:55sustainability, and it builds accountability.
20:57Yeah, fantastic, because what I'm really hearing is also just how valuable it then is to each
21:03individual community when the knock-on impacts and benefits for the wider ecosystem is also
21:10noticed by residents, right?
21:12Thank you very much for that, Sweets.
21:13Anita, if we could go into, again, from your perspective now, the fact that so many grassroots
21:19programs, they do work beautifully in one community, but they will face so many challenges
21:24and also lose impact when they are scaled.
21:27So as a funder, what types of signals or evidence would you ideally be looking at to when you
21:33want to scale this?
21:36I feel funders don't actually ask this often enough because many still prefer to fund multiple
21:42organizations for small, isolated projects, unless it's in education.
21:46So a lot of foundations actually invest a lot in education, but entrepreneurship program,
21:52not as much as I would like to see.
21:54And because it's quite important to do so, to scale, in order to scale projects, right?
22:00So, and if we are serious about national impact, especially economically, then we have to change
22:06that mindset.
22:06So scaling is not, of course, automatic, as you mentioned, because I would disagree to
22:11some extent that it can lose its impact.
22:13I think it's how it's done and how it's consistently done.
22:16So it requires commitment, consistency, and again, not just funding, but that whole term
22:22of long-term investment.
22:24Of course, when you're investing in this kind of programs, there is that risk as well.
22:28It's a higher risk, but that's what philanthropy organizations are supposed to do.
22:31They are able to absorb that risk so that they can then maybe go into a different kind
22:35of financing for the longer term.
22:39So, and most importantly, apart from asking what are the kind of areas that we look at,
22:47the other thing as well is that funders must also be willing to invest in the capacity of
22:50the NGOs themselves.
22:51So quite a lot, unfortunately, want to fund the programs, but not the operations.
22:57When scalability actually requires investing in operations, including governance systems,
23:05data infrastructure, training quality, and even monitoring tools, because scaling and
23:10replication does come with additional costs.
23:12And never mind if you're going to East Malaysia, then the cost of logistics, the cost that you
23:16need to put into staff at the ground level is quite important.
23:20So we cannot expect national level results if you're not willing to fund at community level,
23:25unless we're able to fund larger funds.
23:28But of course, before we do that, then the first thing that we want to see is looking at
23:33the results from the women's program.
23:36So is there financial and discipline and credit readiness?
23:38So consistent results in terms of income growth, their boring behavior, timely repayments,
23:44careful use of financing, and quite importantly, as well as increased financing, or sorry, increased
23:50savings, because that also builds the resilience of the person, right, and having some backup
23:55funds in case anything happens.
23:57And then we also want to see more women opening bank accounts, because sometimes they don't
24:00have bank accounts.
24:02And with that, with purchasing and investing their business, building credit scores and
24:06accessing more formal financial products.
24:08So no longer just pouring informally from a non-profit organization, but from the bank as
24:12well.
24:13So then this tells us that women of real is not creating dependency.
24:16So it's producing financial capable entrepreneurs who can participate in the formal economy.
24:21Exactly.
24:21So then there's a lot of core strengths within that.
24:24Thank you so much, Adita.
24:25Richard, if we could sort of close out the arc of the conversation by looking at what are
24:30the top type of indicators that you would be looking at tracking over, let's say, the next
24:35three to five years, a medium term period at, let's say, a household and local economy
24:40level, that then goes to prove that indeed women MSMEs and small entrepreneurs are investable
24:47and part of that national growth model that we should be looking towards.
24:52Sure.
24:52And this is a challenging question.
24:55I think it speaks to what I referred to before, tracing the benefits from the participants,
25:00you know, through the local economy and then to Malaysia's wider economy.
25:03So I think, I think with Sweets and Anita described, the project already builds in measurement
25:10of savings rates, of incomes, of profit that an enterprise is generating.
25:17And those are the primary metrics we'd look to.
25:20But of course, also we need to look at behaviors.
25:22And the project is specifically designed around enabling women to participate, to take risks,
25:28to become entrepreneurs.
25:29And that's a much more challenging metric to look at.
25:32And that probably looks to require some kind of survey design that looks how women's experience
25:38of being an entrepreneur is after the project has ended, also while it's ongoing, I guess.
25:43But then, of course, then tracing that to the community, it's still quite a micro intervention.
25:49It would have to be very much tailored to the locality.
25:52But we look to things like broader participation of women in the economy.
25:57We look to improvements in how the community view these enterprises, how wider women who want
26:03in the project on their views on whether they would be also willing to engage in entrepreneurial
26:08activity or in employment more generally.
26:10It's much more difficult then to trace that to the national level.
26:15But at least it provides us with some kind of data that we might use to model.
26:20So there are plenty of modeling tools we have out there that we could tweak what we were
26:27seeing, the messages we were seeing in the micro data and the community data to seeing if
26:32that was replicated at a national level, what would we see in terms of the wider gains in
26:37terms of the economic aggregates like investment, GDP growth and so forth.
26:41Exactly, because that could definitely make a persuasive argument.
26:44For sure, it provides a rate of return for this kind of investment in this project.
26:47Absolutely.
26:48Richard, Anita, as well as Suez, thank you so much for the insightful conversation.
26:52Well, when women in underserved communities get the right support, the economic gains are
26:56real.
26:57Higher income, stronger savings and businesses that can stand on their own feet.
27:02This isn't just social progress.
27:03It can be a viable economic strategy.
27:06Women-led micro and small enterprises are one of Malaysia's most overlooked engines of growth
27:10and programs like WOW and Women of Will are proving what's possible when we invest with
27:15intention.
27:16Well, that's all we have time for today on Niagara Spotlight.
27:19I'm Tamina Kaosji, signing off for now.
27:23Thank you very much.
27:24We're just in the background.
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