- 3 months ago
The Rolling Stone Interview has relaunched as a video podcast series, bringing its legendary, long-form interviews to life in a new multi-platform format. The series debuts with a special episode featuring Florence Welch recorded live at New York City’s Cherry Lane Theatre and hosted by Rolling Stone senior writer Brittany Spanos.
Welch opens up on the "life-and-death experience" behind her excellent new album, working with Taylor Swift, and why she's looking forward to turning 40.
Welch opens up on the "life-and-death experience" behind her excellent new album, working with Taylor Swift, and why she's looking forward to turning 40.
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00:00And I had just got, I think, when I broke my foot on stage and, you know, I think I got like four out of five stars for that show.
00:12I was like, what more do I have to do?
00:15Bones are being broken.
00:17I literally like bled all over the stage.
00:20People were like mopping it up and I finished the fucking show.
00:23I came out.
00:30I want to start with how this album came to life.
00:40And I know this story of the album starts with your last tour for Dance Fever.
00:44Can you tell me about kind of going into that tour and how you left as a different person after it?
00:50I guess in a way like Dance Fever was like a record about, it was like a record of like prophecy.
00:58And then I guess this record is a record of catastrophe, you know.
01:02I think that was a record that dealt with performance as well.
01:10And like, you know, the fact that all the performance had been taken away.
01:15You know, I never, there was a period when musicians really didn't know if live music would come back.
01:20And it had been a record like questioning whether I wanted to keep doing it or whether, you know, would I want to start a family on that tour?
01:31You know, I had a sort of like life and death experience that kind of then led me through into making this record.
01:42Basically, Dance Fever was a record about like dancing yourself to death.
01:47And then I was like, oh, shit.
01:51Oh, shit.
01:52So, yeah, Everybody Scream kind of came out of that experience, you know, and processing that, you know, processing the sort of like strange predictive qualities of songs.
02:08Wanting to go deeper into magic and mysticism because I'm like, okay, if shit is coming, true, I really need to figure out what's fucking going on here.
02:17But it was a place of real exploration.
02:19And like, yeah, like it sort of opened up all these different tendrils of myself, I think, going through something like that.
02:29Had you ever experienced something like that before where an album or a song had sort of prophesied what came after it or the experiences that you've had?
02:37Or was that sort of a new experience for you as a songwriter?
02:41It was never this like literal.
02:44Like I'd never like I wrote a song called King, which was a questioning and wrestling with whether I wanted to be a mother.
02:52And there was a line in it that was like, I never knew my killer would be coming from within.
02:56And I never knew my killer would be coming from within.
03:00I am no mother.
03:03I'm the bride.
03:05I'm the king.
03:07And, you know, the thing that nearly killed me was a complication with a pregnancy loss on stage.
03:13So it was just never that like on the nose.
03:18And so that was, you know, it was kind of like it's hard to describe it because in some way it left me with a kind of awe and horror.
03:29And I think that that's one of the themes of the record is a sort of awe at the power of performance and what you can push your body through.
03:37You mentioned sort of diving into sort of mysticism and magic and witchcraft.
03:41I mean, what brought you to sort of study more of that?
03:44And especially being someone who I feel like that witchiness is sort of ascribed to so much of your music and sound.
03:50What brought you there for this?
03:52I think I wanted, I think when something happens in the body, you feel so powerless that I think I was looking for forms of power and felt very like primal and kind of animal what happened to me.
04:10It was very clinical, very sudden, very violent, like absolutely saved my life.
04:16But, you know, when you have to have emergency surgery, like the lights are so bright, it's so clinical.
04:23So there was a sense afterwards that I needed to be near to the earth, you know, I needed to be like near natural things.
04:30I needed to be, and I think everywhere you look in terms of stories of like birth and life and death, I just found stories of witchcraft.
04:40Like you couldn't look into anything about it and not find these folk tales or find stories of like witches or magic.
04:49Because it is so unknown and it is like, no one could tell me why this happened to me.
04:53Like no one could tell me why.
04:56They were just like, oh, just bad luck.
05:00So I think when no one can tell you why, like, you know, you, I think you're looking to find meaning.
05:08I was like looking into like herbs and tonics and things and like got a literal cauldron of stuff that I'm boiling and it helped me, I don't know, it helped me kind of come back to myself, I think.
05:23Also, I think the imagination is a form of escape and I think to go into these stories and to go into these tales and to imagine a kind of magical world is a form of escaping the body.
05:39You know, when you are trapped and you can't control what's happening to your body, what the imagination does or creating stories or finding myths or mythology is you are free.
05:50You know, you really are free and you can go anywhere, you know, and so I think it also gave me some kind of freedom that I think had been taken from me.
06:00Like I didn't feel free in my body and like my body was a dangerous thing.
06:05You know, what had happened to me was because of desire, because of like a bodily experience and then that was kind of gone and my body was dangerous, you know.
06:16So I think I needed to create mythology and like a world around it to be free almost.
06:25Does that make sense?
06:27Yeah, and I mean, especially given the, I know the timing of experiencing it, experience the pregnancy loss was on stage and while you're performing in front of thousands of people.
06:36I mean, having to, as a performer, try to figure out how to navigate that, but also as a human experiencing extreme pain of any kind and understand, try and understand what's happening.
06:46How did you sort of try to figure out what your next move would be in, in that experience?
06:52It's really painful.
06:55And I was in pain and, you know, what do you do as a woman?
07:00And you just take some ibuprofen and I went to work, you know.
07:18And I think there was like, I was in a place that I understood, you know, I was in a place of like bodily power and control.
07:27And like, I was experiencing a loss.
07:31I didn't know it was a dangerous loss, but I was like, I'm going to get through this.
07:34And if I can get through the show, you know, at least I haven't lost another thing.
07:38And I actually, when I stepped out on that stage, all the pain just like went away.
07:42It just went away.
07:43And I was free.
07:44I was like, okay, I can do this.
07:47That's kind of one of my most intense experiences of that, I think.
07:50And I know that you've had sort of a, you know, a journey with sort of anxiety and performance and how it's developed over the years.
07:59I mean, how has you, how did you sort of reach that point where in a moment of trauma like that, where the stage can finally feel like this, this place of freedom and catharsis instead of this anxiety inducing space?
08:12Never been anxious on stage, ever.
08:16Anxious everywhere else.
08:17Just absolutely everywhere else.
08:20Like anxious in my room, in the house, anxious alone, anxious on the street, like anxious with people I know, anxious with strangers.
08:28Like it is the low harm, constant harm of my life.
08:32And it almost never goes away.
08:34And then I step out on stage and it goes away.
08:36You know, it just leaves me all movement or any kind of like singing or moving my body or what music does for me is it takes away, like it takes away my anxiety.
08:48So, yeah, there is like, there is really something there for me, which again, which is why like no matter what, I keep going back.
08:57You know, it's this thing that I'm navigating in everybody's stream.
09:01It's like, oh my God, this crazy stuff keeps happening to me.
09:04And yet I return to this place because it is a weirdly peaceful place for me.
09:10And did you start working on or writing the album shortly after or did it take some time to process and then start actually be able to write songs about it?
09:19I'd started making the album already.
09:22So I'd written one of the greats I think had already been written.
09:28Or was the first take had been written and then it took like a really long time to finish.
09:36So, yeah, I'd started already.
09:39The first person I started working with was Mark Bowen of the band Idols.
09:44And I don't know, when we both had time off from tours, we would just get together and start sketching things out.
09:51So this, like one of the greats had already kind of started to emerge.
09:56And yeah, then I think maybe we wrote everybody's screen.
10:03But yes, the next thing that happened, like, I think I went straight from the tour to the studio.
10:09Like, there was a, after everything that happened, there was just this, like, need to process it in that way.
10:20And I had some trauma therapy afterwards because you get one free session.
10:28You have to pay for the next one.
10:36But the first one is free.
10:37I had one free session.
10:46But she was great.
10:48Yeah, she was great.
10:49She was great.
10:51And she was like, you know, obviously it was a specialist trauma therapist for people who have gone through things that I went through.
10:58And she was like, there can be, like, there can be a need to really fix it immediately and to try again and to try and fix it by trying to have a kid again really quickly.
11:09And she was like, the only bit of advice I really can give you is don't try again until you feel like yourself again.
11:16And so the only thing that I know how to feel like myself or where I really feel like myself is making songs or that's how I process things that happen to me.
11:26So, um, I don't, but really, like, I don't really remember, like, I don't remember the first six months of making this record, really.
11:36So, so, like, songs like Witch Dance and songs like You Can Have It All were the fun of the first, like, really raw ones that were written pretty immediately afterwards.
11:49Yeah, I mean, you know, along with that brutality and, and some of the, you know, much darker themes to this album,
11:56there is so much levity and, and, and hope to some of the songs.
11:59And there's also a really great sense of humor and lots and lots of jokes.
12:05And, um, one of my favorite songs is Music by Men.
12:08And you have one of my, one of my favorite lyrical moments, um, which is Breaking My Bones, Game 4 out of 5,
12:16listening to a song by the 1975.
12:18I thought, fuck it, I might as well give Music by Men a try.
12:20Before we get into, um, more about that song, but what song were you listening to at the time?
12:40The song that made you want to give, give Music by Men a try.
12:43We're fucking in a car, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, that one.
12:51Is that Love, Love If We Made It?
12:53Saying controversial things.
12:55Well, I want to fucking call.
12:57Yeah, is it Love If We Made It?
12:59Yes, Love If We Made It!
13:01Love If We Made It!
13:01I was like, this is a pretty good song.
13:05This is a pretty good song.
13:06Um, but yeah, I think I, uh, yeah.
13:14I was like, oh, fuck it, I'll try it out, you know.
13:19I was like, god, this song is really good.
13:22It's like, um, and the, yeah, and I think I had, I think I had just done my, um, you also,
13:31okay, a big thing with songwriting is it's often because it rhymes.
13:34Okay, so you needed a band that rhymed with five, and I had just got, I think when I broke
13:42my foot on, like, on stage and, you know, uh, I think I got, like, four out of five stars
13:51for that show.
13:52I was like, what more do I have to do?
13:55Bones are being broken.
13:57I literally, like, bled all over the stage.
13:59People were, like, mopping it up, and I finished the fucking show.
14:04I came out.
14:08I came out, and I finished the show, and I think, like, across the board, it was like,
14:14four out of five.
14:16Fuck's sake.
14:18What now?
14:19And in a sort of similar sense, one of the greats, which is one of the singles, and another
14:30kind of song that is just so massive and fantastic, you have the line, I'll be up there with the
14:35men, with the, with the men and the ten other women and the hundred greatest records of all
14:39time.
14:39It must be nice to be a man and make boring music just because you can.
14:43And I'll be up there with the men and the ten other women and the hundred greatest records
14:47of all time.
14:48It must be nice to be a man and make boring music just because you can.
14:54But then I'm like, don't get me wrong, I'm a fan, you know?
15:01It's like, that's it.
15:02I'm like, I'm a fan.
15:03You're my second favorite front man.
15:05You're my second favorite front man.
15:06Um, yes, well, I think it was, like, I did, again, like, a lot of the lines in there, I
15:14was just, like, I just found them really funny.
15:16Like, I couldn't, it's like, we can't cut, this is just really fucking funny.
15:22And, yeah, I guess it was, like, this feeling of, like, when is it going to be good enough?
15:30Like, I give so much and sometimes I wonder if in that giving and in, like, not having
15:39that, like, almost, like, masculine cool of, like, holding stuff back, being obtuse, not
15:45saying it all, like, like, what is he saying, you know?
15:50That's so cool.
15:51What do those lyrics mean?
15:52If I keep giving this much, it's just, but also, does that mean people aren't taking me
15:57seriously, you know?
15:58But then sometimes I'm, like, when I listen to things that have that, like, level of,
16:03like, masculine reserve, I'm just, like, isn't this kind of boring?
16:07Like, like, what, what are they saying?
16:14So I guess that was me being, like, but sometimes I wish, you know, I could have, maybe it would
16:19be an easier life, you know, to, like, be able to, like, hold things back, you know, to
16:24be able to just be, like, hot in a t-shirt and everyone would be, like, it's a
16:28It's amazing.
16:30It's amazing.
16:33So cool.
16:34Wow.
16:35It's, like, revolutionary, you know?
16:38So I kind of, I'm jealous, you know?
16:41Everything, if you're insulting someone, it comes from envy, honestly.
16:45Was it that same concert review or a different moment that sort of spurred you to kind of
16:50consider sort of the limitations of how women are perceived in the industry or kind of who's
16:56allowed in the canon?
16:57Yeah, you kind of, like, get all the lists and there's a sense that they, like, have the
17:01amount of women that they can fill and they're, like, okay, we filled, like, enough women,
17:05you know?
17:05We can definitely, we've ticked that box, you know?
17:08So it's a sense that, like, it's a, yeah, it's sort of a fear that within, I didn't even
17:16really align with my gender.
17:18And I still don't know what it fucking means to be a woman.
17:21I have no idea.
17:22I don't know what that feels like, you know?
17:23I don't know, like, I don't, like, ascribe anything to it particularly.
17:28It wasn't something that I felt like I ascribed to my performance or the way that I felt about
17:32myself.
17:33So it meant that, like, coming through, I didn't really feel the, any barriers to me
17:40really because of it.
17:41And I also didn't realize, you don't realize until you get older that people aren't taking
17:44you seriously because you're a young woman.
17:46I just thought it because I was annoying.
17:48You know?
17:49It's just like, oh, this must be me.
17:52You know?
17:52You don't, it's, it's only, like, when you see it happening behind you, you know?
17:57You look back and you see the same treatment happening over and over again to young women.
18:01And you're like, wait, I think, I think maybe that wasn't about me, you know?
18:07Have you in your career felt underappreciated or underrated as an artist?
18:16It's not a sense of being underrated.
18:18It's just sometimes you're looking at the wrong people to validate you.
18:22Do you know what I mean?
18:23You're just like, oh, daddy, like, why don't you love me yet?
18:26You know?
18:27You're just, like, looking to the wrong person.
18:29And there's, like, all these people over here who, like, love it and get it.
18:33And there's just, like, one dude who's like, yeah, I'm not into it.
18:36You know?
18:36And you're like, do you like this one?
18:38He's like, no, never.
18:40So I think it's that, like...
18:42So I think it's, like, you know, there's some, there is, like, a sense that...
18:48And then that is also something that you kind of, like, grow out of, you know?
18:52Which is really nice, I think.
18:55And also, like, the way that I am appreciated is the only way I would have it.
19:04I never wanted to be any more famous than this.
19:07This is actually about as much as I can handle.
19:09Like, any more, it would be very bad.
19:12But, no, so I'm kind of, like, eventually through all the work I sort of got the career I always wanted, you know?
19:22I think there was this moment where I think there would have been huge intentions for me to go very mainstream.
19:29You know, on lungs there was a moment where you could have kind of chosen a different path.
19:34And I think that being, like, that successful or that huge, I knew that literally my psyche wouldn't sustain it.
19:44Like, I don't have the kind of brain that can handle that amount of attention.
19:49So I think I just, I kept making choices that honestly, like, took me away from the spotlight and always back to the work, you know?
19:57Like, took my kind of personality out of it and always back to the music.
20:01And so sometimes you always think, like, you look at those lists and you're like, oh, I didn't make that list.
20:11But I also, that is also changing and I realize that it's meaningless, you know?
20:17It really is, which is a nice feeling.
20:21And when you sort of step outside of all the trappings of being a star, being a rock star on stage and putting out an album,
20:29what does your life look like outside of those moments of stepping into your career?
20:36It's really boring.
20:39Well, I think that, like, the wilder that my work got actually the more, like, that's the thing, isn't it?
20:45It's, like, be calm in your life so you can be wild in your work.
20:50And I think that was really true for me.
20:52Like, the calmer my life got, the wilder I could be in my performance styles and in my videos and in my artwork.
21:00Because, like, a lot of, like, self-loathing and shame and, like, everything that I was kind of drinking or taking drugs to, like, figure out.
21:13Once I got sober and my life became a lot quieter, I actually found that, like, freedom from a shame means that you can explore so many more different things in your work.
21:24And I really found that to be amazing.
21:27But, yeah, there's a lot of, like, pacing and reading and watching television and kind of being, like, well, that's the thing.
21:37You're on tour and you're, like, I just need to get home.
21:39And then I get home and I'm, like, there is a beast inside me that needs to come out.
21:43Like, I am not meant for this life.
21:47I am too big for this house.
21:49Like, you know, so it's kind of, like, that's the flip side.
21:53And then I go on tour and I'm, like, oh, my God, I should have chosen a domestic life.
21:58Why?
21:58And as soon as I get there, I'm, like, I need to be free.
22:02One of the first people that you called for this album was James Ford, who also worked on Florence and the Machine's breakthrough hit, Dog Days Are Over.
22:10And I'm curious, you know, what do you recall of both the moment of making a song that would end up changing your life, but also what happened in the aftermath of it blowing up?
22:23No one understood it, firstly.
22:25Like, no one understood it at all.
22:26Because I've been making songs like Kiss With a Fist and My Boy Builds Coffins.
22:30And I'd basically been recording songs with the sort of South London blues punk band crew.
22:37And it was all very guitar-based.
22:39And then I had, so this is when we used to record the demos, like, onto CDs.
22:46So, yeah, so I still have the CD.
22:49I still have the CD with the original Dog Days demo on it.
22:52But really, like, the label that I'd been working with did not understand this demo whatsoever.
23:00They were just like, no, where's another Kiss With a Fist?
23:03That was fun, like, cute, catchy guitars.
23:05No.
23:06I was like, no, no, no, I'm doing this.
23:08And it was, like, blank faces.
23:11Just like, okay.
23:15And James Ford just understood it.
23:17He was like, no, no, this is really exciting.
23:19I get this.
23:19He actually didn't want to work on Kiss With a Fist.
23:22He was like, yeah, I don't want to do that one.
23:24I want to do Dog Days.
23:26And the first thing he did, which is interesting, because he also did that with the track,
23:31Everybody Scream, was he sped it up.
23:34So, I think it was a couple of BPMs slower.
23:38And he sped it up.
23:41And me and I went to the pub.
23:44Okay, good luck with that.
23:46So, but he, yeah, he sort of, he, yeah, he sped it up and sort of really helped us make it the song that it became.
23:57Have you had any mentors throughout your career or heroes become mentors as your career has rolled along?
24:03Nick Cave has been so kind to me.
24:08Nick Cave and Susie Cave have just been the most, like, wonderful and kind friends.
24:17And, you know, I, like, sent Nick Cave some of my poetry and he helped me, like, edit some.
24:23And, you know, he, like, write him stressed emails from tour and he would reply and be so kind.
24:31And, you know, just as, like, someone who's such a physical performer as well, he sort of, like, just understood what I was putting myself through.
24:40And was just so, like, he's an incredibly wonderful human being.
24:46So, yeah, he has been, him and Susie as well have just been the most incredible support to me.
24:51And you've been pretty selective with doing collaborations throughout your career or being a featured artist.
24:56And one big one, of course, is Florida with Taylor Swift.
25:00And I know you're featured in the Heiress Tour documentary according to the trailer to it.
25:05I haven't seen it.
25:08I was there, though.
25:10Yeah.
25:13What do you remember of that song coming together and why that felt like the perfect collaboration for the two of you?
25:19Yeah, she just, she texted me being like, would you, like, love to, I'd love to have you in this song.
25:26And I went to the studio and it was just the most, like, the way that she writes songs is kind of, like, short stories.
25:36You know, she had, like, a whole story around this song and, like, why she wanted to write it and the kind of, like, Florida lore and things like that.
25:45And I wanted to bring my own, what I knew of Florida, which is Lauren Groff.
25:49One of my favorite short story collections is called Florida and she's from there.
25:53And there's a short story in it called Eye Wall, which is about a woman who barricades herself in a bathroom during a hurricane and is visited by all of the ghosts of her ex-boyfriends.
26:04And she's drunk and she's holding a chicken.
26:06It's an amazing, it's an amazing short story.
26:12And, and I went to Taylor, I was like, oh, like, I love this short story collection.
26:17Can we, like, include this?
26:18And she was the most open collaborator.
26:22She was like, yes, like, whatever you want.
26:24I, you know, do your backing vocals all over it.
26:26Like, I want it to be as Florence-y as possible.
26:28Like, go for it.
26:29I was like, okay, well, I want to bang a drum, too.
26:31She's like, yes, go for it.
26:32And, you know, getting to see her construct those harmonies that she does, it was, it was an amazing experience.
26:39On the, on the album, you sang, you felt that you were burned down at 36.
26:44Do you still feel that way now?
26:56I actually think when I turn 40, I'm going to feel amazing.
27:01I really do.
27:02It's like, when you are etching the decade, you start to feel worse and worse.
27:06So I think when I turn 40, I'm going to feel incredibly young again.
27:10I think, yeah, I feel like, I just feel like it was such a, like, desperate, like, urgency to this record.
27:23And to just kind of get it out.
27:24Because it was such a specific moment in my life.
27:30And if I hadn't put this album out now, I don't think I would have ever put it out.
27:36You know, like, it's so, it is so, like, tied to this moment of, like, the age I am.
27:46Like, the experiences I'm having.
27:48Like, I think, had we had to put it off.
27:52You know, like, it's hard making, it's really hard making records.
27:56And it gets harder.
27:59And it's weird.
28:00That's weird about making, you get better at it, but it also gets harder.
28:04It's very strange.
28:07Maybe you care more, or you know more.
28:10But there's always moments where you think, okay, this record isn't happening.
28:14You know, there's always moments where you're like, okay, well, you know, this producer didn't work out.
28:19Or we can't get this studio.
28:20Or, you know, none of the timings are working out.
28:24And you just think this record is never going to happen.
28:26And especially with this one, I was like, well, that will be a different record at another time.
28:31You know, this was only for this moment.
28:34Had I had more time away from what happened, I would have felt differently about it.
28:39Other things would have started happening in my life.
28:42This kind of was, came sort of directly out of an experience that I would have felt differently about in, like, three years.
28:50And with this album coming out on Halloween, first off, why was it, I know you'd mentioned that it was important for you to release it on Halloween specifically.
28:57Why did this feel so appropriate for this album?
29:00Because it all rhymed then.
29:03And it all rhymed.
29:05Florence and the machine, everybody scream, out on Halloween.
29:10I was like, it all rhymed.
29:15I was so pleased with myself when I was like, Florence and the machine, everybody scream.
29:25And then my sister was like, you know, that's not an actual rhyme.
29:30I was like, it's a rhythmic rhyme, which is all that matters in songwriting.
29:35So, yeah.
29:35Well, I don't know.
29:36It was also, it's an album apart from, you know, it's so much about life and death.
29:42I think there is, and, you know, in the old kind of pagan traditions of Halloween, it was about the veil being the thinnest between the living and the dead.
29:51So I thought it was kind of the perfect time to put this record out when the veil is thin.
29:56Do you have a costume for Halloween?
30:00I'm slightly always in a costume, so I don't, like, need to dress up, you know.
30:07But, yeah, I think it'll just be like this, but, like, extra.
30:13Thank you so much, Florence, everyone.
30:15Please give another round of applause for Florence Welch.
30:17Thank you so much.
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