- 2 days ago
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00:00Let me see here. Let's go by the phone. How about it, AJ? You there? I'm here, man. And let me see if I can't fix that. There we go. There we go. Mr. AJ Croce himself. Thank you for joining us.
00:22Hey, my pleasure. I don't know where to start with you. Let's see. I think probably the best place to start is what you're doing now in New York. Why are you here?
00:33Well, I'm playing Town Hall tonight and looking forward to that. And then tomorrow I'm playing at the Bar de Vaughan in Poughkeepsie. And it's been great.
00:46I'm doing a tour of Croce Plays Croce. So it's kind of starting at the beginning, right? So it's the origins of my music, my father's music, the history of everything that inspired both of us.
01:03And it's an amazingly fun show to perform. And yeah, it's just been a pleasure. So this is the second time I'm back at Town Hall, and I'm just thrilled to be able to play this audience. And I'm looking forward to tomorrow as well. It's just been a blast. And the band is amazing. It's such a great group of musicians. And what more can I say?
01:33Anything you like. So this is what I want to do. I want to touch on something. First of all, you don't know how big a fan I am of yours. And we've had the pleasure of hanging out a few times. And every time we do, I'm still starstruck by you.
01:51But what I wanted to do is this. For years, you did not do your father's music. And just upcoming with this 50th anniversary of his passing, finally, thank God, you decided to put this together.
02:07Is there a reason other than you want to make a name for yourself? You don't want to write your father's name? Like, what what was it that made you wait so long to really do a full coaching version, coaching on coaching?
02:21Well, you know, I'll tell you what, when I got started when I was really young, and I was a piano player, first and foremost, that's, that's what I did, and became a songwriter and a singer.
02:34And, and, and I first started playing with a guy named Floyd Dixon, around Southern California, touring around where not far from where I lived. And, and I, I was playing, you know, old blues and jazz and early rock and roll and, and Floyd, Floyd wrote stuff like Hey Bartender and Wine, Wine, Wine, One Scotch, One Bourbon, One Beer, he was kind of kind of get a sense of where his head was at, right?
03:03So he, he really encouraged me. And it was like one thing led to another and then completely separate thing. A woman named Mae Axton heard me play. Mae wrote Heartbreak Hotel for Elvis. And she heard me play and called up her friend, Cowboy Jack Clement and said, you got to hire this kid. So he did. He hired me and flew me out to Nashville, where I live now. And, and said, I didn't realize I was
03:33filling in for Jerry Lee. I was 17 years old and, and on my very first session with all these stellar players who played with Elvis Presley. And then B.B. King heard me play. And I, he asked if I wanted to go on the road. And, and that was it. I was 18 years old.
03:51And I left, I left, left the university and, and started playing. I mean, on the road with B.B. King. And one thing led to another. And I was with Ray Charles and Aretha and, and James Brown and the Nevels. And it was, that is what kept me from playing anything of my father's music.
04:10And, and我有 the music. And I was with it because I had a life of doing my own stuff for 30 years.
04:14There's a music. There's a music to control. The music to control.
04:15There's a music to control. The music to control.
04:17Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was the, it was the driving factor.
04:21And so I, you know, I had this, you know, this wonderful experience of being able to work with some of my heroes and
04:31you know, as, as we've spoken about before, getting to work with Tucson.
04:36And, I mean, that was a thrill.
04:38And having, you know, and John Simon and T-Bone Burnett and all these wonderful folks who really encouraged me to do what I do.
04:50And I had a little success with it along the way and was able to, you know, do my own thing.
04:55There was no, you know, I wouldn't have done a good job of playing my father's stuff when I was young.
05:02I had no interest in it.
05:03I was wanting to do my own thing.
05:07And I didn't feel like there was any integrity in just playing his music.
05:11I got offered a lot of money to do it.
05:13I could have been much wealthier had I chosen to do that at 17, 18 years old.
05:19Probably the reason you don't do it is for the money.
05:22No, no.
05:23I really do appreciate the path, like the way you chose to navigate your career in your music.
05:29Because we talked earlier in the past, you know, about one of your first albums you put out.
05:35And you're like, yeah, I'm really not crazy about that song or this song.
05:40And then the evolution, I think the last thing I really got was Cures Like Medicine.
05:46Oh, yeah.
05:47That was a fun record.
05:48Cures Like Medicine.
05:49It's like, oh, my God.
05:51It's just crazy.
05:53I mean, the songwriting.
05:56Yeah, that was a fun album.
05:58Do you go back to, like, the Robert Johnsons and, like, you mentioned a few other people, Toussaint or your father, for songwriting inspiration?
06:13Because this is really what I want to talk about is the concept of writing professionally and writing artistically.
06:19Sure.
06:20So there's a lot of ways to write, right?
06:23You know, I have purely written for myself on and off.
06:29That's mostly what I've done in my career.
06:31There have been periods of time where I'm a staff writer, like I was for EMI for a number of years, where I'm writing 92 co-writes a year on average.
06:43Sometimes a little more, sometimes less.
06:45It is a job.
06:47You know, it's work, and you have one, two, maybe three co-writes a day sometimes, and it was a job, you know, and I took it really seriously.
07:03It prevented me from being able to perform as much as I like to, and so, you know, I started mostly writing just for myself.
07:13And so, you know, there's a lot of ways to approach it.
07:20There's, you know, you can simplify it and say there's two basic ways of communicating with a song.
07:26You have your conversational lyric, which my father was wonderful at, something that you hear in great country songs and great blues songs.
07:39And then, you know, you have, you have a more, slightly more esoteric take on lyric writing, and it's, you know, you're working with, I would say, metaphors as opposed to conversational lyrics.
08:01And so the metaphorical writing would be what you hear in Bob Dylan, what you hear in, you know, Jimi Hendrix, or what you hear in, you know, in the lyrics of the, you know, of poets and psychedelic artists, right?
08:19So, and rock and roll, you know, they're using imagery as opposed to conversational speech.
08:28And, and I think, I don't think there's a right or wrong.
08:31I think there's a way to sometimes merge the two.
08:35It doesn't always work.
08:37Sometimes it does.
08:38Sometimes it doesn't.
08:39But it's, it's, it's a job, you know, and it's a practice.
08:44And, and so I think it's, for me, it was always finding a way to say something, to say something new.
08:54Everything's been said, pretty much.
08:57What is the one chord or turn in a melody that is going to make it unique?
09:06Finding ways for me, this is what I've discovered really about myself, is that I draw from so many different musical traditions, from jazz and blues and rock and roll and Latin music, from New Orleans music.
09:22That's why I love it so much is because I go back and I listen to That's Me in the Bar.
09:27Uh-huh.
09:28You know?
09:29Sure.
09:29Or Cures Like Medicine or Age is the first one.
09:32And you have, like you said, you know, Pine Top Sparks and you have.
09:36Yeah.
09:36You know, like Cole Porter vibes in there.
09:39And you, and you have.
09:40Yeah, sure.
09:40And you have, like, honky-tonk blues in there.
09:44You know, Debra McClellan, Robin Ford.
09:47You have a really, a, a cornucopia of music when it comes to, like, genres and vibes.
09:53Yeah.
09:54I mean, in essence, the only way that I feel I can really, truly create something new is by finding a way to, to sort of marry different styles and genres and the eras of those styles and genres.
10:12Finding unique ways of doing that is only possible if you know where to draw from.
10:21So, I think the early part of my career was really diving into the roots of it and understanding it completely.
10:28And, you know, as a record collector, buying those 78s and getting into the old stuff, you know, from Jelly Roll Morton and the Stride guys and Fats Waller and James P.
10:38And the great songwriters of Tim Pannelly and, but you've got to know all of it.
10:43You've got to know the Ellington and the Basie and you've got to know the gospel and you need to know the blues and the, and the, and the, the country music that was coming up, the string bands and the, and the bluegrass.
10:55And it's all relevant.
10:57And so how do you, how do you choose to interpret it?
11:03How do you understand it and, and apply it?
11:08You know, that is, that's the key.
11:11That's what makes a song unique to me is, is finding that, you know, special way of, of combining these beautiful traditions.
11:23Well, there's so much you do special.
11:25I mean, Solomon Burke, Cry to Me, there's so much that you do.
11:29I want to talk about your dad's music for a minute here, if you don't mind.
11:32And you talk about conversationalism.
11:36Everybody knows Bad Bad Leroy Brown, Don't Mess Around with Jim, you know, like so many.
11:43One of the songs that, for me, I think is probably the most beautiful poetic, probably under the radar songs, is The Way We Used To Be.
11:56When I listen to that, you talk about conversational.
12:02That song is so well done.
12:05And Miss England's harmonies on it, they just blend so well.
12:09Mm-hmm.
12:10So, you know, I think that, you know, Time in a Bottle was his epiphany.
12:19Right.
12:20Before he wrote that, in, you know, in 71, it was, he really wore his influences on his sleeve.
12:32And I think it was the same for me up until I was maybe in my early 30s.
12:39You know, my influences were more of what you heard than me.
12:43Of course you heard my voice and my playing.
12:46But I was, I was, I was safe in the sense that these were, these were my, these were my roots.
12:54You could hear who my heroes were.
12:56You could hear it in the music.
12:58You could hear it in the melodies, the ideas.
13:01Even if it was unique to me in doing it because it was my voice, it was, you heard the influences.
13:08Same thing with my dad.
13:09Um, you know, the first, um, 10 years of him being a writer, you know, his, his career professionally
13:17was 18 months and, um, and it started in, you know, in 72 and, and it went to until, until
13:25the end in 73.
13:26So, um, so it was, it was one of those things where all of a sudden, and I have the, I have
13:36the work tape, in fact, um, it's, it's a special part of the show.
13:42Um, I feel like I'm giving too much away right now, but, um, but I hope people can come to
13:48the show in times, uh, times squared night because, because at town hall, we've got just
13:53this amazing video thing that's going on behind me.
13:58That is really, it's so emotional and so beautiful throughout the show.
14:03And it's funny and it's, and it's, and, and it's, um, it's, it's, it's unique, but the
14:10thing that happened was, you know, he would play a show on Friday or Saturday at a, at
14:16a, um, at a, uh, coffee shop or a, or a, or a little road house or whatever it was.
14:22And, and, and so one side of this tape was, it was a cassette.
14:27One side of this tape was all the stuff he was planning on playing that weekend.
14:31And you flip the tape over and you hear the opening guitar part for time in a bottle.
14:38And then the first, the first two verses.
14:41And it was like, all of a sudden he found his voice.
14:46And after that song was written, pretty much the entire first two albums were finished and
14:53written on the first one.
14:54You had don't mess around with Jim and operator and New York's not my home and rapid Roy and
14:59photographs and memories.
15:01And those are just the hits on some of the hits on the first record.
15:05And then the second one, of course, you know, with, with Leroy Brown and, and all of those,
15:10um, all of those Alabama rain and, and, um, one less set of footsteps and speedball Tucker
15:16and all those, you know, great songs as well.
15:19You know, it was all completed in six months and, um, both, both albums with, yeah, it was
15:28like, you know, it was like Buddy Holly or something, except with a shorter career.
15:33That's amazing.
15:34So listen, I just want to do, do you have two minutes and 25 seconds?
15:37I want people to hear your dad and Ingrid on this song, The Way We Used To Be, because
15:43I think it's one of the most beautiful songs written and then I want to go over, um, you
15:50know, where you're going, what you're doing, and then, you know, talk a little bit about
15:53your songwriting.
15:55So if you want to-
15:55Sure, man.
15:56I just gotta, I just gotta get over a sound check pretty soon.
15:59So my time is kind of tight this morning.
16:01Let's do this.
16:02I'll play this afterwards.
16:04Okay.
16:05Okay.
16:06Let's talk about, um, you know, we, we've been talking about your dad.
16:12And I'm an AJ Croce fan, first and foremost, you know, you've got so much great stuff.
16:17This latest project is very, um, I think, um, if I'm not mistaken, Name of the Game was
16:24a song that your father wrote that hadn't been recorded and you were in Beth Field did
16:28that?
16:29Or am I off-based on that?
16:32Um, I, are you referring to the, um, Name of the Game?
16:37Yeah.
16:38Yeah.
16:39Name of the Game, I finished.
16:40It was, you know, it was something he, he started, um, uh, when he was on tour, it was
16:48in like a Holiday Inn hotel.
16:50He was, uh, recorded this idea, um, um, in the hotel room.
16:56And I, and I just thought it was such a cool thing.
16:59And probably the only, it was, it was after he had finished recording, I got a name, the
17:04album, his last album.
17:06And, and that hadn't come out yet.
17:08Um, he was on the road for the second album, Life in Times with, um, and was, you know,
17:15really experiencing success.
17:16He was completely broke, but he was, he was having, having some, um, some big success.
17:22And, um, and so it was, yeah, so it was at that time that he wrote, um, started writing
17:30Name of the Game.
17:31And I just thought it was such a cool thing.
17:33And I, I played it for, for, um, Dan Penn, who was the producer of, of that album, uh,
17:40Just Like Medicine.
17:40And, um, and Dan was like, oh, this is great.
17:47And, you know, he didn't know anything.
17:49He didn't know who wrote it or anything.
17:51And, um, and he's like, we got to do that one.
17:54So, you know, that's how it happened.
17:56And then, you know, being able to work with all those players with Vince Gill and the Muscle
18:01Shoal Horns and, and, um, Cropper and just that amazing, um, crew, you know, David Hood.
18:09I mean, it was a thrill and making that record was so much fun.
18:12I just, I loved Dan Penn and, uh, the songs he's written are just so iconic.
18:17Nothing you can say negative about that.
18:20That is so nice.
18:22It really is.
18:23I mean, you, you, you want fun, you want emotional, you, you, you have it all there.
18:29Yeah.
18:29So your lineup, you're playing Town Hall tonight.
18:32You're playing Poughkeepsie tomorrow.
18:35Yeah.
18:35Yeah.
18:35Does your lineup include everything, um, Coachie does Coachie?
18:41Is there just some AJ solo in there?
18:43Oh, there's plenty, plenty of AJ and plenty of me in there talking in the third person.
18:49Yeah.
18:49Oh yeah.
18:50There's, you know, there's plenty of me, you know, obviously, and it's just such a, an
18:55amazing group.
18:55Still, David Burrard is playing with me who you've met before.
18:58I think, um, David was with, with, with Dr. John for almost 40 years and, and, uh, Toussaint
19:06and the Nevilles and Etta James and whatnot, and, um, have a new drummer who's, uh, joined
19:12the group, Pete Abbott, who was with, um, uh, Average White Band and Blood, Sweat and Tears
19:18and a million other people you've, you've heard and seen him.
19:20So you're just a woman with the, with the, with the, uh, you know it.
19:23Yeah.
19:24And then, and then, um, you mentioned Delbert and his, you know, long time, um, guitarist
19:30has been with me for about four years now.
19:33Uh, James Pennebaker plays guitar and, and, and violin and, um, yeah, he was with Delbert
19:40for almost 40 years.
19:41Oh, you know what?
19:42I almost forgot.
19:43Forgive me.
19:44I'm going to interrupt.
19:45You don't have a lot of time.
19:46Yeah.
19:46You know, take a look.
19:47Um, you just finished a project working with Shooter Jenny.
19:50I did.
19:51I did.
19:52There's a song I think you'd love on there that's kind of in your, in your wheelhouse
19:56called so much fun, uh, kind of new Orleans, uh, thing that I wrote with my friend Gary
20:02Nicholson and, um, and, uh, yeah, I think you, uh, you know, you know, I had years ago
20:11I had played, um, um, Waylon was a fan and I had met Waylon and Jesse.
20:18Um, they came to a show of mine in LA and he was playing the next night at the same place
20:23at the house blues.
20:24And he said, what are you doing tomorrow during the day?
20:27And I didn't really have anything.
20:29I was just in town, um, for, for work.
20:33And, um, he said, why don't you come down?
20:35And, uh, if you're into it, play in the studio, come on over.
20:39So I went over and played on one of his tracks and, and, um, and I met Shooter and, you know,
20:46I didn't, you know, really, um, get to know him very well, but when I was thinking about
20:52producers for, uh, Heart of the Eternal, uh, the newest album, which just came out this
20:59year, I was thinking about someone that would take me in a new direction.
21:04Someone that I didn't know what to expect.
21:07You know, I wanted to go a little outside of my comfort zone.
21:11Um, I had the arrangements for the song, so I knew it was going to sound like me, but
21:17I also just felt like, okay, this needs to be something that I'm, where I'm challenging
21:23myself.
21:24Um, it's, you know, it's such an important thing to do as an artist.
21:27And, uh, he was so much fun to work with.
21:31I would do it again in a heartbeat.
21:33I absolutely love him as a human being and, um, and just, just talented and thoughtful and,
21:43and fun to be with, you know, so.
21:45Oh, you should say hi to Miss Jessie because, uh, they, they tend to tune into my show and
21:50I ain't bragging.
21:51I'm just proud.
21:52Uh, yeah, they're, they're wonderful people and, and, and I've, I've really, really, uh,
21:59enjoyed working with Shooter.
22:00It was one of the most fun sessions.
22:02He's on both sides of the, of the microphone.
22:05And that's just a rare talent.
22:06I think, you know, he's really, I think he's really found the studio to be his instrument.
22:12You know, um, I know he can play and, you know, a number of instruments and he's, and
22:17he's a fine singer, but it, it's, to me, it's his, um, it's really his, his understanding
22:25of the studio.
22:26He grew up in it.
22:27He's, you know, he's, he's lived it in his, his entire life.
22:31And I think that, um, he's gotten better and better and better with age and, you know,
22:38he's, you're doting on somebody else.
22:40I mean, we should be promoting AJ Croce.
22:42AJ Croce is going to be, uh, October 24th at Town Hall in New York City.
22:51It's, uh, where the songbook ends, the story begins, the new chapter in Musical Odyssey.
22:56And that's eight o'clock tonight, New York, New York, y'all.
22:58And then he's, uh, uh, uh, Bardavan in Poughkeepsie, New York.
23:03And that's going to start at 7 p.m.
23:05And it's Croce Plays, Croce, and then he's headed out to Pennsylvania, Shippen, Shippensburg,
23:12Pennsylvania, um, Sunday, and then Boston, Massachusetts, Wednesday.
23:18You can find everything, ajcrocimusic.com.
23:23And I'm looking forward to seeing you.
23:24Thank you so much.
23:26Hey, man.
23:26Thank you so much.
23:28Take care.
23:28One of the proudest moments I ever had was you were here locally in town, you were doing
23:37the show, and we had chatted a little bit before, probably a week before.
23:42And I told you that I love Texas Ruby and, you know.
23:45Oh, yeah, yeah.
23:46And the fact that I'm sitting in the audience, and then you say, I want to do this song for
23:51my friend, Redneck, out of nowhere.
23:54That was the biggest honor I've ever had.
23:57Oh.
23:57And I'll remember that.
23:59I'll cherish that moment forever.
24:01Well, I'm so glad that it meant something to you.
24:03I appreciate it, man.
24:05I appreciate your time and, and, and helping people know about, about my shows.
24:09And, uh, and hopefully I'll see you tomorrow.
24:13If not tonight.
24:14Yeah, I'll try to get tickets over there in Poughkeepsie if they'll let me in.
24:17I'm sure they will.
24:18All right, man.
24:18Well, take care.
24:19Have a good one.
24:20All right, I love you.
24:21Be good.
24:22Take care.
24:22Bye.
24:23We got, um, I talked about Jim and Ingrid Cochie, the way it used to be.
24:29So let's do three in a row here.
24:31We got Jim and Ingrid Cochie, AJ Cochie featuring Vince Gill, and then Jim Cochie himself.
24:38So three in a row on the Gumbo Ya-Ya Radio Show.
24:46How come we can't talk the way we used to do?
24:50Nothing seems to be the same.
24:50Nothing seems to be the same.
24:54Have we forgotten all the things we knew?
24:59Was it you or I who changed?
25:00Was it you or I who changed?
25:04We've got to find the answer, let the secrets fly.
25:09Enough of telling stories and our well-meaning lies.
25:15Things don't seem to be the same.
25:15Things don't seem to be the same, no matter how I try.
25:21There's no rhythm to the rain.
25:24The wind still whispers through the leaves on high, but they no longer sing your name.
25:34We've got to find the answer, let the secrets fly.
25:39Enough of telling stories and our well-meaning lies.
25:45We've got to try to build what we had in the past.
25:50Try and tap the battle, if we lose it we can't last.
25:57I heard myself just say the things I could never say before.
26:03And listen to the rhythm of the rain.
26:07The wind just whispered through the leaves on high, and the thought I heard them sing your name.
26:18We've got to find the answer, let the secrets fly.
26:22Enough of telling stories and our well-meaning lies.
26:29We've got to try to build what we had in the past.
26:33Try and tap the battle, if we lose it we can't last.
26:41I heard myself just say the things I could never say before.
26:46And listen to the rhythm of the rain.
26:51The wind just whispered through the leaves on high, and the thought I heard them sing your name.
27:00And I thought I heard them sing your name.
27:05When I've never been in time to be, the kind of town that I'm going to sing, and I heard a lot of people saying trouble shut up in my name.
27:33But I was just up on the river, getting less than going my way.
27:44Baby, losing ain't the name of the game I play.
27:51I was just up with the rain.
27:52I learned some lessons early.
27:56I learned some lessons hard.
28:00But I kept my eyes right open all along the way.
28:05And I remember them that's helped me And them that's done me wrong
28:16Mother, losing ain't the name of the game I play
28:22Cause I had me some good times Bad times
28:29Bad times behind the wall, times But it never worried me at all
28:35Cause I could always say That I was just a born believer
28:45For getting things to go my way
28:49Losing ain't the name of the game I play
28:59And I remember them that I was just a born believer
29:15I was just a born believer
29:17And I remember them that I was just a born believer
29:21Cause I have had some good times, bad times, times behind the wall times, but it never was me at all.
29:39Cause I could always say, that I was just a boner dealer, again the answer would go my way, losing ain't the name of the game I play, oh no, no, no, I said losing ain't the name of the game I play.
30:09Lazy days in mid-July, country Sunday mornings, dusty haze on summer highways, sweet magnolia calling.
30:39But now and then I find myself, thinking of the days, that we were walking in the Alabama rain.
30:51Driving movies, Friday nights, drinking beer and laughing.
31:01Somehow things were always right, I just don't know what happened.
31:09But now and then I find myself, thinking of the days, when we were walking in the Alabama rain.
31:21We were only kids, but then I've never heard it said that kids can't fall in love and feel the same.
31:36I can still remember the first time I told you I love you, on a dusty mid-July, country summer's evening.
31:50When we were walking in the Alabama rain, a weeping willow sang its lullaby and shared our secret.
31:58And now and then I find myself, thinking of the days, that we were walking in the Alabama rain.
32:10Walking in the Alabama rain, walking in the Alabama rain.
32:22Talking kids, kids can stay on them, wondering if it were all the time we were walking in the Alabama rain.
32:26And when a couple of times we walked in the know装yg Two different
32:41Charles-Sypenety Palestiana will say they were walking in the some way in my room.