- 7 weeks ago
The big talking point of this episode of News Today is the unprecedented aviation crisis as IndiGo cancelled over 1,000 flights, triggering nationwide airport chaos.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, Friday night. This is your destination for news, newsmakers, talking points. Our big talking point is the turbulence in the skies. Indigo under the scanner tonight. Did it in some way use its monopoly situation to arm twist a DGCA to relax flight safety rules?
00:22Also, the Indigo meltdown. Has the government been caught unawares? We'll focus on that big story that's in the interest of anyone who's flying in the country. Also, can India balance Russia and America? That big takeaway from the Vladimir Putin interview as well as his visit to India. Plenty on the show tonight. But first, as always, it's time for the Nine Headlines.
00:47After over a thousand Indigo flights are cancelled today, DGCA relaxes rule for the airline. Indigo's CEO breaks silence, says full operation restoration will take five to ten days.
01:05Opposition goes all guns blazing against the centre over the Indigo mess, calls it the cost of the government's monopoly and duopoly models. Aviation Ministry orders a high-level inquiry, vows to fix accountability as passengers are in distress across India.
01:24Ukraine conflict figures prominently in the Modi-Putin bilateral talks. Prime Minister Modi bats for bringing peace. Putin says Russia working.
01:39Chinese government mouthpiece quotes India today's Putin interview. Putin called India-China close friends of Russia. Global Times emphasises Moscow has no right to interfere in bilateral ties.
01:50As Rashtrapati Bhavan hosts Putin for a state banquet, there is a political controversy. Congress MP Shashi Tharoor invited, but leader of the opposition in Lok Sabha Rahul Gandhi, Congress President Karge, not invited for dinner. Congress says it shows a lack of propriety.
02:10Amid.
02:12Amid's controversy over the Babri Masjid replica in Bengal, suggested by a local MLA, Calcutta High Court refuses to intervene in the matter. Says responsibility to maintain law and order would rest with the state government. The Mamata government had suspended and expelled the MLA.
02:30Madurai Deepam Rao escalates. Madurai collector and police commissioner approach Supreme Court against Madras High Court order to light the lamp at a contentious location.
02:42Tamil Nadu government seeks an early hearing in the Supreme Court.
02:47Pakistan's foreign ministry stirs a controversy yet again. Backs China's claim on Arunachal Pradesh. Says support China's sovereignty and territorial claims on the Indian state.
03:00In a landmark deal, Netflix announces that it will acquire Warner Brothers, including its film and television studios, HBO Max and HBO at a total enterprise value of approximately $82.7 billion.
03:13The Indigo Meltdown. The Indigo Meltdown is our big breaking news. Over a thousand Indigo flights have been cancelled just in the last 12 hours today.
03:37The CEO, Peter Elbers, has finally had to come out and break his silence, apologize in a video message, even as thousands of passengers have been stranded across the country.
03:50Elbers claims services will normalize between December 10th and 15th. Says he expects less than 1,000 cancellations Saturday.
03:59The railways has been forced to step in, add coaches to 37 trains.
04:03Listen in to what the CEO under fire of Indigo had to say.
04:10We've decided today for a reboot of all our systems and schedules, resulting in the highest number of cancellations so far, but imperative for progressive improvements starting as from tomorrow.
04:25With these actions, we expect tomorrow to have cancellations below 1,000.
04:30The support of DGCA in providing specific FDTL implementation relief is of great help.
04:39Still, there's lots of work in progress, but going forward from here, in alignment with the Ministry of Civil Aviation and DGCA, we do expect to further improve every day.
04:51The Ministry has been thoroughly engaging from day one.
04:54So in the initial, when we have seen a lot of delays happening with the Indigo operations, then we have engaged with them.
05:00We have told them to take all the necessary steps to ensure normalcy within the next two days.
05:06We have instructed all the airport operators, all the people who are on the ground interacting with these passengers to be sympathetic, to be empathetic, to understand and to use the right communicative language.
05:19Because, you know, there is a lot of frustration also because of the delays and people have been waiting for a huge amount of time at the airports also.
05:31Now, India's biggest airline is facing what is a full blown meltdown, arguably one of the worst crisis that has faced domestic civil aviation.
05:40At the heart of it are rules that were framed by the government that would have allowed pilots, for example, to have more rest time.
05:47But clearly, Indigo chose not to follow the rules or claim that they were not prepared.
05:53As a result, what you've had is a situation unprecedented.
05:57Thousands of flights being cancelled, passengers stranded nationwide, tempers flaring and bizarre stories like a newlywed couple missing their nuptials.
06:08The question is, who got it wrong and who will be held accountable?
06:12Indigo, DGCA or the Ministry of Civil Aviation?
06:16We'll ask all the big questions. First, take a look at our top story tonight.
06:28Indigo, India's largest airline, has barely managed to fly in the last three days.
06:34The crisis reached breakpoint on Friday as the airline cancelled over 1,000 flights across the country.
06:47Airports across the country are overflowing, from Bengaluru to Jammu, Ahmedabad to Kolkata.
06:57At the Delhi airport, distressed travellers broke into slogans after all flights till midnight were cancelled.
07:07Indigo, flight is late. In the morning, some flights are missed.
07:10They don't care about it. The passengers are worried about it.
07:13The airlines don't hear anything.
07:15If they go to the counter, they say that there's no solution.
07:19In Chennai, passengers with valid boarding passes were stopped to the gate with another blanket announcement that all Indigo flights stood cancelled till midnight.
07:33There's massive confusion and chaos in Chennai airport as many Indigo flights that are supposed to fly to and from Chennai airport have been either inordinately delayed or cancelled.
07:45Leaving thousands of passengers just stuck here, anxious about their travel plans.
07:50There's confusion everywhere. Queues are only getting longer and longer.
07:54In fact, passengers have now also started asking for refunds, fearing full cancellations of their flights.
08:03Helpless passengers were left stranded with no clear updates.
08:08There was no one to guide any of them.
08:10There were elderly people who were ill.
08:12There were two months, three months old, baby inside.
08:15We were helpless actually.
08:17So we decided to cancel our tickets.
08:20They are not given any communication to us whether the flight is scheduled or it is cancelled or whatever.
08:25So we even web-checked in today morning by 9 o'clock.
08:28It said it is confirmed.
08:29So we came to the airport.
08:31But when we tried to get in the airport, they say it has been scheduled to the evening, 6 p.m.
08:36In a bizarre twist, a newly-wed couple missed their own reception, forced to attend virtually from Bhubaneshwar airport.
08:45Amid all this, Indigo says it is offering refreshments, hotel stays, next available flights, assistance with luggage retrieval and full refunds where applicable.
09:00The DGCA has issued a fresh appeal to all pilot associations, urging efforts to minimize cancellations as fog season and the wedding travel rush push passenger volumes to the peak.
09:12The appeal comes right after the regulator withdrew the directive stopping the airline from adjusting pilots' leave against their rest period.
09:25The exemption given only to Indigo will last till February 10th.
09:29But the situation remains volatile and the question refuses to go away.
09:34What truly caused this welldown?
09:38Why wasn't Indigo prepared for the new rules that became effective from November 1st, when the deadline was known since February?
09:46Either way, the cost is being paid by the passengers.
09:50Bureau Report, India Today.
09:54Let's raise the big questions tonight, questions that demand accountability.
09:58Why wasn't Indigo ready for this new flight time limitation rules that would give pilots more relaxation?
10:07Did Indigo use its monopoly to arm twist the DGCA to once again relax the rules?
10:13Why were the government and the Ministry of External Affairs caught completely, of civil aviation caught completely unawares?
10:21Indigo meltdown, is it a wake up for India's aviation sector?
10:25Joining me now, Jitendra Bhargava, former Executive Director Air India.
10:29Captain Sam Thomas, President Airlines Pilots Association.
10:33Captain Sanjay Gupta, former pilot Mr. Shivraman, a former representative of the Director General of Civil Aviation.
10:39I appreciate all of you joining us. I want to come to you first, Captain Thomas, because you have suggested, I read somewhere,
10:46that this is a deliberately created artificial crisis to force the DGCA to dilute the new FDTL rules,
10:54the flight duty time limitations that would provide certain relaxation for pilots between flights.
11:01Do you believe Indigo misused this and blackmail DGCA to once again relax the rules?
11:08Absolutely, absolutely. Rajdeep, good evening.
11:13First of all, the pilots of our association and the other unions at large are of the opinion that the apology given is an apology of an apology.
11:28However, we are now deciding what is a bigger criminal act that what Indigo carried out or what the government of India carried out,
11:38because we had warned them well in advance.
11:41And we also object to the fact that these FDTL, new FDTL norms are being bandied as the real reason for these delays.
11:52How come that same set of FDTL did not cause any delay in Akasa, did not cause any delay with Air India, which is equally as big, and how it just happened only with Indigo?
12:03This has been a pressure tactic of many an airline.
12:06Whenever something doesn't go their way, they engineer this act, and sure enough, if you see, DGCA has not only rolled back the FDTL, they've completely removed the FDTL.
12:19Today, we don't know which FDTL we are following because a violation of a rule that I don't know, how will you hold me accountable?
12:28And that we are still wondering, which is a bigger criminal act?
12:32What was done by the airlines or what was done by the regulators?
12:39So, just to tell our viewers FDTL rules and why they matter, 48 consecutive hours of weekly rest for pilots, night redefined as 12 a.m. to 6 a.m.
12:51Earlier, it was 12 a.m. to 5 a.m.
12:54Maximum of two night landings per pilot, no more than two consecutive night duties, mandatory road roster adjustments and quarterly fatigue reporting.
13:04So, you're saying, Captain Thomas, all of this was known to Indigo in advance and to other airlines.
13:09But Indigo did not prepare in advance and thereby created this mess so that the DGCA would have no option but to relax the rules once again because Indigo has 66% market share and monopolizes it.
13:22Am I correct? A quick answer.
13:25Absolutely, absolutely. And they have agreed to that on paper.
13:29They have given a statement that we've misinterpreted this, but we'd like to say that we'd informed them on the 24th of November while we met the DGCA that something like this is going to happen because this is their bargaining chip.
13:41And we say that heads must roll. Some kind of criminal activity must be dealt with exactly like that as criminals are dealt with.
13:54And only then will this action not repeat itself.
13:59I also like to tell you that every time there is an issue.
14:03I'm going to flash that ahead.
14:04You're calling for criminal liability. You're calling for action.
14:12Yes.
14:13Right. Right. You're saying that they are virtually.
14:16I take your point.
14:18Jitendra Bhargava, I want you to respond to what you've heard from Captain Thomas.
14:22You cannot allow.
14:23It seems at the moment that there was either collusion or certainly that the DGCA and the Ministry of Civil Aviation was caught unawares.
14:32And Indigo, according to Captain Thomas, knew about it, exploited the situation.
14:37They wanted these FDTL rules to be relaxed.
14:40The other view, of course, is that all of this was surely preventable.
14:44I mean, you've got a situation this is unprecedented of thousands of flights being cancelled.
14:50Rajdeep, it's a criminal action the way they go ahead.
14:54Notwithstanding the successful 19 years of Indigo, what has happened in the past five days is absolutely atrocious, can't be expected, is an ugly chapter in the history of Indian aviation now.
15:06What did happen?
15:07As you very rightly said, they command two-thirds of the market share in the domestic market.
15:11Every airline was given the new norm, the new FDTL thing.
15:15They should have followed it.
15:16But what they perhaps thought was that they would be able to manage DGCA to give them an extension.
15:22The question is, why were they over-optimistic?
15:25And why were they so confident that they will get it?
15:27Now, that's one.
15:29Number two point is, having known that the operations will be badly mauled, flight cancellation will take place, they did not come forth and said,
15:38this is our truncated flight schedule.
15:41We are cancelling flights.
15:43Why make a passenger come to the airport and then realise that his flight has been cancelled?
15:48Now, when you look at it from perspective, they have come forth now and now giving the reasons why we are looking and how long will it take.
15:55The question is, should they be allowed to go scot-free?
15:59We all know that Indigo, when we buy tickets on Indigo and cancel our ticket, they're 4 feet 90% of the fare.
16:06Aren't passengers deserving of compensation now, considering the fact that this crisis is of their own making?
16:14I simply can't agree.
16:16So, what should Indigo have done, Mr. Bhargava?
16:19Well, you know, you're saying...
16:21No, no, what should, what could, sir, what could or should Indigo have done then?
16:27You're saying they should have forewarned passengers or they should have gone to the DGCA much earlier, explained the situation?
16:35Because other airlines, as Captain Thomas rightly puts, seem to have got their act together.
16:40So, how should Indigo have responded?
16:43Why do you say they are criminal, this is criminal negligence?
16:47No, Radhi, once they knew that DGCA had turned down their request, they could not have mustered enough pilots to keep the operations going.
16:57There was a need for them to truncate the schedule and make it in public knowledge that these are the flights that we are not operating, number one.
17:04Number two, sought the help of other airlines and said, look, we are going to be, there's going to be mass-scale cancellation, come to our rescue.
17:11Like now, as your correspondent said, we are talking in terms of trains also being run so that the passengers can travel, et cetera.
17:18The mayhem at the airport has been unprecedented.
17:21And the CEO of Indigo coming on the fifth day of the crisis and giving explanation is simply not acceptable.
17:29I have not seen in my 20 years of serving and 15 years post my retirement in the aviation industry.
17:39You know, Mr. Shivraman, you've heard Jitendra Bhargava and Captain Thomas and DGCA surely has a responsibility.
17:46There's a regulatory oversight.
17:48And as a regulatory oversight, DGCA should have got its act together.
17:52It's all very well suddenly for Minister Naidu to today come and say, no, no, we'll get everything together in 48 hours.
17:57All of this could have been eminently preventable if the DGCA should have either had a dialogue with Indigo and ensured that this did not spiral into the kind of crisis that we've seen.
18:11Do you agree that DGCA has been caught on the wrong foot?
18:14Yeah, DGCA has been caught on the wrong foot.
18:18But before that, I would like to say that there is a board of directors for the Indigo.
18:23And there are independent directors there.
18:26They are supposed to be the guardians of the stakeholders here, which are the passengers for the Indigo.
18:33What were they doing?
18:34What was their responsibility?
18:36They should resign or they should be asked to quit.
18:39Number two.
18:40When these new FDTL were announced in the late 2023, it was clear that the airlines had to get themselves ready for implementing these new FDTL,
18:52which required a little bit of addition to the crew, which probably Indigo did not bother to consider at all,
19:00because they were a monopolist and they thought they could get away with everything.
19:04And I would like to add another point.
19:07A few days ago, I was in Bangalore airport.
19:09And normally I see what is happening in the airport because I was the DGCA additional secretary of civil aviation for more than three and a half years.
19:17In fact, the opening of the skies was done in my time.
19:20So I was looking at the airport and I found more than about 15 to 20 Indigo aircraft just parked there without engines or the engines capped.
19:29These aircraft would have certainly had crew members.
19:32What were these crew members doing?
19:34What did the Indigo company do with these crew members?
19:39They would have certainly added to the fleet.
19:41Thirdly and finally, the DGCA should have monitored what these airlines were doing in regard to the implementation of the new FDTL.
19:50Were they adding to the crew?
19:52Were they training more number of crew?
19:54Probably the DGCA slipped on this.
19:56So therefore, there is responsibility in all these people including, I must say, the pilot association also.
20:02The pilot association also would have been watching that more crew required to implement the FDTL.
20:08Why didn't they also take it up at that time with the Indigo airline board or with the DGCA?
20:14So all of these people had to share some responsibility in this case.
20:18Much worse, I would say, the DGCA had the fundamental responsibility of ensuring that their guidelines, the DGCA's guidelines were properly implemented and preparations were on from 2023 onwards.
20:32All of them have failed.
20:33And here, the DGCA has no buckling.
20:37I'm just for a moment bringing in also, yeah, you know, those are very strong words and I'm glad people are using these kind of strong words because what has happened is totally unacceptable.
20:47The minister cannot get away today by saying, look, I'm going to warn Indigo or I'm going to make sure that accountability is fixed.
20:55It's too late, Mr. Naidu.
20:57Yeah, but before I come to you, Captain Sanjay Gupta, just Captain Sam Thomas wants to come in for a moment because he is the president of the Airlines Pilots Association.
21:06And then I'll come to you, Captain Gupta.
21:08Okay.
21:09Yes.
21:10Go ahead, Captain Thomas.
21:11I completely agree with Mr. Shivaraman and we were very young pilots when Mr. Shivaraman was the DGCA.
21:20One thing that we do not concur with is that we have raised pilot unions have raised this issue right from the beginning and brought it to the attention of Indigo.
21:31However, you must understand that the unions have been done away with right now and any kind of information or any kind of opposition to any rule in Indigo, you will be terminated forthwith.
21:47There have been people terminated and this is the reason, Mr. Shivaraman, that we are not able to openly talk in a place like Indigo, but we as independent body have brought it to their attention on several locations, sir.
22:02That's why I'm saying that the board of directors are responsible.
22:05You're saying you brought it to the…
22:07Sorry, Mr. Shivaraman, you wanted to respond.
22:12Go ahead and respond to what you heard from Captain Thomas.
22:15He says the pilots have brought this to the…
22:19Yes, go ahead.
22:21That's why I said the board of directors of the Indigo company are…
22:26Go ahead, Mr. Shivaraman.
22:28…squarely responsible for this.
22:30Why didn't the board of directors act?
22:32Because this was a major policy change which they had to bring about in the interest of the crew's safety and in the interest of the flight safety of the passengers.
22:39So the board of directors must be squarely held responsible for this.
22:43They cannot get away from this responsibility.
22:45And the independent directors must be held responsible.
22:47What were they doing when all these things were happening?
22:50Where are they now?
22:51Nobody seems to be in the picture at all.
22:53I have been an independent director of a very large company.
22:56And we knew what was the responsibility of independent directors.
22:59And in one company, I had to resign.
23:02Because the company was not implementing what was necessary to be implemented.
23:06What are the independent directors doing?
23:08Why is the DGCA not asking the independent directors…
23:10No, no, Mr. Shivaraman, what about the Ministry of Civil Aviation?
23:14No, no, no.
23:15Mr. Shivaraman, you are saying the Indigo board of directors, independent directors have a responsibility.
23:19I take the point.
23:20What about the Ministry of Civil Aviation and indeed the DGCA?
23:24What is their responsibility?
23:25Who will fix accountability there?
23:27Let me tell you one thing.
23:29When I became the DGCA, after being the additional secretary of the Ministry of Commerce, Mr. Khan,
23:33who is presently the governor of Bihar, I went and told him,
23:37I will be DGCA so long as you tell me that you will not interfere with my decision because I am a statutory authority.
23:44And Mr. Khan announced it in the parliament that he will never interfere with me.
23:48And in the three and a half years I was DGCA, no minister interfered with my decision.
23:52Right.
23:53So therefore, here the DGCA who is a statutory authority cannot interfere with the minister.
23:58And the minister cannot say that he is responsible.
24:01No, the DGCA is responsible.
24:03The ministry comes into the picture only when the DGCA fails.
24:06In this particular case, whether the minister thinks that the DGCA has failed, I do not know.
24:14I just want to throw up some numbers.
24:17Sir, I just want to throw up some numbers.
24:21Indigo's on-time performance, six metro airports, 20-25 in percentage terms.
24:26In June, it was 86.3%, July 91.4%, August 90.6%, September 87.4%, October 84.1%, November 67.7%
24:38And December 4th, it is 8.5%, completely unacceptable.
24:44What would happen globally if this happened?
24:47Sanjay Gupta, you are now joining us.
24:48You've been a pilot for years.
24:50Do you believe that the flight rules which have been put in place by the government
24:55were rules that every airline should implement?
24:58Are they in the pilot's interest to give pilots more rest time, relaxation time?
25:03And should airlines have ensured that they have sufficient staff strength to meet the growing demands?
25:10You can't just expand your airline and not have enough pilots.
25:13Do you agree, Mr. Gupta?
25:16Good evening to everyone, all the panelists and Rajdeep to you.
25:20Can you hear me properly?
25:24Yes, I can.
25:26Can you hear me?
25:29Yes, yes, sir.
25:30Go ahead.
25:32Basically, FDTL in any country is designed for proper rest for the crew.
25:40What had happened in the last 10-15 years is slowly it got diluted in various ways
25:48because some airline wanted something and another airline wanted something.
25:53Best is to make a summary of all the countries which are so-called developed and make a summary out of it.
26:01That's the best way out.
26:03And this is what the pilot associations and everyone are doing.
26:07We have to understand that if there is no proper rest, there's going to be a problem.
26:12And this is one of the reasons why a lot of pilots are getting out of this career.
26:18I know of a lot of colleagues of mine who have stopped flying.
26:21They could have flown for another five years at 60, but they have stopped.
26:25The reason is that the FDTL is getting too tight.
26:30There's not much rest and that is the reason.
26:34And as far as Indigo is concerned and DGCA is concerned, they have a lot of time at their disposal.
26:44The winter schedule was approved by DGCA three months in advance.
26:49And it has to be in conjunction.
26:53You see the number of people who have died before the flight, on the flight is basically it's all about fatigue management.
27:02So this is the reason why everything has been looked into.
27:06You know, I just want to ask you there, Captain Thomas, do you believe that the relationship is exploitative
27:16between the airlines and the pilots and this is the exploitative relationship that must end.
27:21If I am expanding as Indigo keeps claiming that expanding, buying many more planes, going on many more routes,
27:27you jolly well also ensure that you have better staff strength as per FDTL global rules.
27:33Otherwise, the relationship becomes exploitative and can hamper flight safety and passenger safety.
27:40Absolutely. Absolutely. The whole world has gone towards FRMS, which is a fatigue risk management system.
27:47India very reluctantly, albeit late, joined that bandwagon.
27:51However, these kind of pressure tactics are the ones that are going to help roll back these.
27:57Now or today, I don't know what kind of rules I'm following.
28:00Secondly, you brought up the matter of OTP on time performance.
28:04Please be aware that most of the airlines today say I will take two hours to reach Mumbai,
28:11whereas I have for 31 years flown that sector for one hour and 35 minutes.
28:16Now, when you say I will do it in two hours and you reach there in one hour and 45 minutes,
28:21you announce that I have reached ahead of time, which is another thing, not short of cheating.
28:31And again, the statements made regarding the rate of tickets on the other airlines,
28:39always when the other airlines capitalize on chaos that happens in Indian airports,
28:46the tickets can go exorbitantly high.
28:49And there is a statement always made from the government that we are capping it.
28:53So, one rupee is reduced, either in the airlines, competing airlines or in the hotels, not one rupee.
29:01So, these are cumulatively a huge criminal act and somebody should pay for it,
29:09somebody should be arrested, somebody should be made an example of.
29:12Otherwise, this will repeat itself over and over again.
29:15You know, I am showing the numbers of what the price was earlier and what's it got now.
29:23Someone has just sent me, Air India Express leaving Delhi at 1pm to Kolkata with one stop at Gauhati,
29:3250,508 per adult. This is what is happening. These are the kind of, you know, Mr. Sivraman,
29:39this is where it comes, the DGCA or the Ministry of Civil Aviation.
29:44It should put passenger interest first. The minister, these are the things the minister should be looking at.
29:50Other airlines are now exploiting this situation. We are in the festive season at the end of the year.
29:55Should I come back to it, Shivramanji, while Indigo has a responsibility and they have to pay a price,
30:01will the DGCA and MOCA also need to be firmer and stronger with all airlines?
30:07Absolutely. For example, if I remember right, the old Indian Aircraft Act Section 5 gives plenty
30:15potentiary powers to the DGCA to ensure flight safety, safety of the crew and passengers.
30:21Therefore, the responsibility statutorily lies on the DGCA, not the minister, not the ministry.
30:32Why do they have a DGCA with the rank of an additional chief, additional safety to Government of India?
30:38Therefore, the DGCA has to take the responsibility. Why was the staff not inquiring into the progress of implementation of the new FDTL?
30:46From the very beginning, it was announced in 2023. And secondly, I also would like to be a little more charitable to the DGCA because almost 30% of its posts are vacant.
30:58According to the sources which I saw, that 1500 posts of the DGCA are vacant. Why should they remain vacant?
31:08If they are vacant, how can they conduct a safety audit of all the airlines? It's not possible for them.
31:14So all these things are a messy affair. And I do not know why the ministry is not taking an interest in filling up the posts of the DGCA.
31:22So that is where the ministry comes in. But as far as the responsibility to the passenger safety and the crew safety is concerned, it's only the DGCA which is responsible, not the ministry.
31:36Not the ministry. I'm going to leave it there. Either way, we hope that the minister will now intervene at least, ensure that Indigo is held accountable.
31:50If not, passengers will hold Indigo accountable. What has happened is unacceptable. And I hope that the Pilots Association is given their due rights as pilots and not exploited.
32:02I appreciate all my guests joining me on the show tonight. We will continue to track the story.
32:07I'll have more at the end of the show on the impact this has had on the lives of people.
32:12I want to go from there to our other big story because Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin held a crucial bilateral today.
32:20It was a day of several meetings between the Russian side and the Indian side.
32:25Mr. Putin received a tri-services guard of honor at the Rashtrapati Bhavan.
32:30India and Russia have signed key agreements ranging from cooperation and migration, temporary labor activities, health care, medical education, food safety, and a joint statement.
32:41The Prime Minister hailed the Russian President for condemning Pahalgam terror attack and said the world must stay united and fight against terror in all forms.
32:50Mr. Modi reiterating India's clearly defined position on the Ukraine conflict claiming that India is not neutral, it has a position and that position is for peace.
33:00Listen in.
33:01Listen in.
33:02Listen in.
33:07The Prime Minister.
33:13The Prime Minister wells.
33:18The Prime Minister.
33:22The Prime Minister.
33:27We are also seeing successful partnership in energy.
33:45Russia is a reliable supply of oil, gas, coal and everything that is required for the development
33:55of India's energy.
33:57We are ready to continue uninterrupted shipments of fuel for the fast-growing Indian economy.
34:05Of course, the bilateral interaction in energy does not limit to that.
34:10We are also conducting a flagship project to build the largest Indian nuclear power plant,
34:16Kodankilam.
34:17Two out of six reactor units have been already connected to the energy network and four are
34:23still under construction.
34:27Getting this nuclear power plant to full power output will give an impressive contribution
34:32to the energy requirements of India.
34:36It will help supply Indian enterprises and houses with cheap and clean energy.
34:42We presume that we could talk about the construction of small modular reactors and floating nuclear
34:47power plants and also non-energy applications of nuclear technologies, for example, in medicine
34:52or agriculture.
34:53I am joined by two very special guests at this moment.
34:57When I ask the big questions, can India play any role at all in the Ukraine-Russia war?
35:04Can India balance Russia and America?
35:06The Modi-Putin-Bornhomi, what is the message?
35:09Joining me now, Naftesh Sarna.
35:11He has been a senior diplomat, served in the United States as ambassador.
35:17Daniel Freed, former diplomat, also joins me.
35:19I want to look at the tangled U.S. and Russia with India in the middle.
35:24And Naftesh Sarna, give us a sense.
35:26We've had the bonhomi that we've seen between President Putin and Prime Minister Modi, but
35:32there's also Mr. Trump somewhere in the background.
35:35The trade talks still in a limbo.
35:37How does India balance its long-term all-weather friendship with Russia and strategic relationship
35:44with the fact that the United States is also looking at Russia with looking at Russia in
35:52a very, very different light?
35:54How does India balance this, particularly at a time when the Ukraine war continues to rage?
36:00Thank you, Rajdeep.
36:01I think, you know, balancing big power relations is bread and butter for Indian foreign policy,
36:13and I think that we have done for many years.
36:16At this particular moment, I think it is made somewhat easier by the fact that President Trump
36:22himself is in conversations to end the Ukraine-Russia conflict.
36:29And any efforts that we make through our conversations towards an eventual peace should be fine for
36:37everybody concerned.
36:40Of course, there are differences.
36:41You know, India has been sanctioned by 25 percent extra tariffs for buying Russian oil,
36:49very oddly, because there are others, including China, who have bought more oil than India has.
36:57And in the past, we have been criticised for buying depending too much on Russian weaponry.
37:03But I think Mr. Trump fundamentally has changed the ground between where all this is happening.
37:12He has not given India the strategically, you know, positive treatment that we had worked
37:22on for the relationship for the last 25 years.
37:25And I think today India is well justified in seeking its own interests through a practical
37:32implementation of strategic autonomy.
37:35And this is frankly what is happening.
37:37If there is a message in this for President Trump, I think it has been very loudly conveyed
37:44and it will be heard.
37:49So India's strategic autonomy is a message that it will be sent to Russia, to the United States
37:55strongly.
37:56Daniel Fried, do you believe that that's the message that the United States will get when
38:00these pictures play out across the world, the pictures of the Bonhomie between the Russians
38:05and the Indians?
38:06How will Washington see it?
38:08Well, the first problem India has is that Washington or the Trump administration is not one thing.
38:17The Trump administration, even more than most American administrations, is an uneasy coalition
38:24of groups with very different views.
38:27But I think the ambassador made a good point.
38:31Americans have to recognize India's strategic autonomy as a fact.
38:35That's just where we are.
38:37Secondly, I think that India can play a constructive role.
38:41Trump deserves credit for pushing a negotiated end to the war.
38:46But Putin so far has absolutely no interest in taking these negotiations seriously.
38:52He has stonewalled.
38:54The Ukrainians have cooperated.
38:56The Europeans have cooperated.
38:58The Russians have given nothing.
39:00And this is where India can actually put its weight.
39:03I think if the prime minister is as smart as I hear he is, then he may well find a way
39:11to impress upon Putin the need to work to negotiate an end to the war because that will serve
39:17everybody's interests.
39:20And I think Putin will take such a message...
39:23But do you actually believe India...
39:25Mr. Fried, if I may push you before I come back to...
39:27Sure.
39:28Do you believe India has that kind of leverage to push Russia to end the war?
39:33I think Putin needs India to a significant degree.
39:39Putin does not want to be isolated.
39:42India's message would be taken seriously in the Kremlin.
39:46Now, not India alone.
39:48I'm not trying to put the burden on India.
39:50I think the United States has to use our own leverage against Russia.
39:56And Trump has it.
39:57He has not yet used it.
39:58But I think India can play a role and that would be appreciated.
40:03Look, the Americans have learned that we need to work with India, that we will not agree on everything,
40:08but we can agree on a great many things.
40:12Russia is involved in an imperial war, a war against civilians, a war against the Ukrainian nation.
40:21And that violates what I understand are India's longstanding principles.
40:26I'm not asking India to break with Russia.
40:30It won't do so.
40:32It won't do so.
40:33But India could play a constructive role and I hope it does.
40:36Let me take that to you, Naftesh Sarna.
40:41When the Prime Minister today spoke, he said that India doesn't have a neutral position.
40:46India stands for peace.
40:48We've heard the Prime Minister say this in the past also at various summits where President Putin on occasion has been there.
40:55This is not an era of war.
40:57The truth of the matter is, there is no sign of the war ending.
41:00And even in that interview to India Today TV, President Putin did not sound like someone who has peace in mind.
41:08So, given what we are seeing on the ground, do you really believe that India has any leverage?
41:14And could India, as a result, by getting too close at any stage to Russia or being seen to get too close to Russia,
41:21antagonize allies both in Europe and in the United States?
41:26Well, on both your questions, Rajdeep Anding, on the first one, we have to be realistic.
41:31Ukraine and global situation would have been one aspect of the conversations between Prime Minister Modi and President Putin.
41:40We must remember the real purpose of this visit is to re-energize the India-Russia relationship,
41:47which is a very old time-tested relationship.
41:50And this is the 23rd summit.
41:53He's not actually come here to resolve the Ukraine issue.
41:56That is one aspect of the visit, because everything around the globe is discussed when leaders like this meet.
42:06And India is in a particularly good position of being able to talk to Russia as we talk to Ukraine,
42:14we talk to Europe, and we talk to the United States.
42:17So, I'm sure the Prime Minister, when he chose those words, that India is in favour of peace,
42:22was in his way conveying a message.
42:26But the entire burden of the visit is re-energizing India-Russia relations.
42:32You know, whether it's nuclear energy, whether it's energy, whether it is connectivity,
42:37whether it is trade and so on, giving more meat to that relationship.
42:43So, we must remember that.
42:47And the second...
42:48But if I look at the...
42:50Sure, but Mr. Sanna, just for a moment, if I look at the numbers,
42:55the fact is we have a huge ballooning trade deficit with Russia.
42:59Correct.
43:00Now, do you believe that, therefore, our relationship with Russia,
43:03which for the longest time was very defence centric,
43:06we need Russia to also start buying Indian goods.
43:09It's all very well to have these handshakes and say that we are all weather friends.
43:14But the truth is, Russia as a friend continues to get...
43:19have the benefit of a huge trade imbalance with India.
43:22Absolutely.
43:23Because, you know, we have...
43:25And that has been the imbalance in the relationship, particularly in the last couple of years,
43:30when we have, by an accident of geopolitics, we have bought so much oil from Russia.
43:36But earlier on, our overall trade has been low.
43:39So, now we have to make it a sustainable trade and economic relationship,
43:45which actually, you know, puts more sort of, you know, actual stuff on the table,
43:52beyond the conversations and beyond the good feeling,
43:55and even beyond security, defence and nuclear energy.
43:58So, we have to open pathways.
44:01And I think they seem to be keen to start this conversation.
44:05He has come with a huge business delegation, and they have had conversations.
44:10We must remember that they also need this economic and trade relationship.
44:15They need people.
44:16That is why you see the labour migration agreement.
44:20They need people...
44:21They need cooperation to work, say, in shipbuilding in the Arctic, and so on.
44:26So, I think both sides realise that the relationship at the moment is imbalanced.
44:32It is too much towards security and defence and nuclear reactors.
44:38So, we have to diversify it.
44:41So, you're absolutely right.
44:43It has to become a sustainable relationship.
44:46Okay.
44:47Good to get two fine voices.
44:52Navtej Sarna, Daniel Freed for joining me on the India today, on the news today.
44:57I appreciate you joining me and giving us a sense of the road ahead for India, Russia,
45:02particularly with the Washington factor also looming large.
45:06Let's turn to tonight's Get Real India story, and it comes from Madhya Pradesh.
45:10Now, Madhya Pradesh, like several other states in the country before every election, sees a slew of promises made.
45:17Now, Madhya Pradesh had their last elections in 2023 November.
45:21At that time, the Shivraj Singh Chauhan government had announced a slew of welfare schemes to uplift communities, guarantee ministerial representations.
45:30Now, guess what?
45:31Two years after their launch, Shivraj Singh Chauhan has moved to Delhi.
45:36Mohan Yadav is the new chief minister there.
45:39All the schemes that were promised before the elections have been scrapped.
45:43Take a look at just how things happen at times in India.
45:48Get Real India.
45:50In election year 2023, the Shivraj Singh Chauhan government in Madhya Pradesh set up a series of social welfare votes, each launched with big promises.
46:17Leaders were given ministerial status and they sent the message that voices of the communities would be heard and their future secured.
46:26During the elections, the leaders associated with these communities played a crucial role in securing votes for the BJP from their respective communities.
46:36But two years later, the picture is totally different.
46:41Zero rupees spent, minimal meetings and not a single beneficiary.
46:48The government had created these boards in October 2023 for two years.
46:53And on September 17, 2025, all the boards were dissolved without any review.
47:00The government did not give a single rupee to any of the social welfare boards created for the welfare of various communities in two years.
47:07Despite the allocation of rupees 8.34 crore, no amount was released to any board.
47:14Meetings were not held regularly and no district level meetings were held for any board.
47:21The boards created by the Chauhan government included the MP Khush Welfare Board from the Khushvah community, the Swarnakala Board from the Soni community, the Veet Tejaji Board for the Jat community, the Jain Board for the Jain community and several others.
47:36We had a high school department.
47:41But in the US�am, this is the main benefit of the entire system.
47:45The government had increased all time.
47:51The government had increased all time.
47:52But there were thousands of people who had increased their income.
47:55Iboarded in total and lived to the world.
47:57The Congress has alleged that the BJP formed these social welfare boards to mislead communities and garner votes in the elections.
48:27When India today asked Minister of State Gautam Tetwal, he avoided answering and even forgot that he himself had given a written reply on this matter in the Assembly.
48:57The boards meant to shape the future of entire communities remained directionless, unfunded and forgotten.
49:12Under Mohaniyadav government, they have now been scrapped.
49:15Were the boards just an election stunt?
49:17With Ravishpal Singh in Bhopal, Bureau Report, India Today.
49:22Okay, let's turn from Get Real India to Only in India.
49:28Now, these are stories that you might not get in any other part of the world because in a twist straight out of Kerala's electoral battlegrounds, guess what?
49:37A very familiar name is contesting in the local elections there in the Nalathani ward of Munnar.
49:44Her name, Sonia Gandhi.
49:48I repeat, her name, Sonia Gandhi.
49:50Earlier, she contested from a neighbouring ward, adding another layer to this high-stakes Kerala local body contest.
49:58Take a look at Only in India.
50:00It is the ultimate Operation Lotus.
50:20A political twist straight out of India's unpredictable electoral battlefield has emerged from Kerala's hill town of Munnar.
50:37In the Nalathani ward, the BJP has fielded Sonia Gandhi.
50:41The 34-year-old was named after the Congress leader by her father, who was a party worker.
50:49Sonia Gandhi herself was a Congress supporter before she switched sides.
50:53He was a officer of the U.D.F.
50:55A violent family member for the U.D.F.
50:56In the U.D.F.
50:57I was named after the U.D.F.
50:58I was named after the bitch.
50:58I was named after the bitch.
50:59Therefore, I am named after the bitch and she was named by the bitch.
51:03My name is Sonia Gandhi.
51:05My father's name is a gentleman with the bitch.
51:07This is all the bitch.
51:08I now, my husband is from BJP.
51:13They are from BJP.
51:14Her husband, Subhash, has earlier contested as a BJP candidate in a nearby ward.
51:29Sonia Gandhi is facing a tough fight against Congress candidate Manjula Ramesh and CPM's Valarmathy.
51:38Vishibhi Mol, Bureau Report, India Today.
51:44Remember that Sonia Gandhi is contesting on a BJP ticket in Munnar's village in the Kerala local body poles.
51:54Only in India. Let me leave you though with an image of the day.
51:56An image that symbolizes the chaos in the skies.
52:00A newlywed couple missed their flight to Karnataka's Hubli after the Indigo flight like many others got cancelled.
52:08Leaving them stranded in Odisha and Bhubaneshwar.
52:11Guess what? The family went ahead with the event.
52:14The couple joined virtually as rituals were performed in their absence.
52:19Sad to say, this can also happen only in India.
52:23The good news of course is that even the mess in the skies has not daunted some spirits on the ground.
52:30We wish them a happy wedding life.
52:32Hope they can fly in calmer times in the future.
52:36For now, stay well, stay safe.
52:38Good night. Shubhra 3.
52:39Jai Hind. Namaskar.
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