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00:00Given your experience in foreign affairs, we've heard, of course, Russia saying that Europe should be held responsible for the deadlock,
00:09blaming Europe for sabotaging the peace plan. What's your take on that?
00:14Well, if you want to have some sort of truce or starting the peace, it's not that you can do it without the Europeans.
00:25So the Europeans have to be involved in the process. The outcome of the talks, as said, that we support the initiative of President Trump.
00:36Some points are, you know, debatable, but it's a good basis to start.
00:41Also, Ukraine said that it's, you know, a go ahead, Trump's plan.
00:47It seems like on the other side there is not really a willingness to negotiate.
00:54The point on Putin's side is really to gain as much territory as possible in the next few weeks to have a better negotiating point.
01:04So the blame is not really on the Europeans. The Europeans are not really escalating.
01:09It's really on Putin playing the usual game and not really wanting to start this talk.
01:15What is Europe on its own in trying to defend Kyiv's interests?
01:19Because we've had both the U.S. and Russia trying to carve out the territory, and some say it is being carved out in their own interests.
01:29Well, I would say that, of course, there is a change of posture from the U.S. towards Europe, but Trump is a dealmaker.
01:40He knows very well that trade drives the relationship. It's very transactional, this approach.
01:46Well, I remind Trump that the exchange between, the commercial exchange between Europe, not just the EU, the broader Europe and the U.S.,
01:58is so strong that there is no force whatsoever that will drive away our traditional alliance.
02:05So I don't see the Europeans being left on their own. What I see is still Europeans not being enough proactive in this discussion, in this peace talks,
02:18and not using all the leverage that they have, the economic power that the European Union and Britain never forget that,
02:25although outside the EU is part of Europe.
02:27So I would say that Europeans should use a little bit more diplomacy, and they're failing to use the tool that they have in their hands.
02:36But is the EU united in the first place in trying to push the interests of Ukraine?
02:43I mean, can it steamroll the likes of Hungary and Belgium, which resist one way or another?
02:50Well, the EU is a complex machine.
02:55Of course, the EU doesn't have a united foreign policy.
03:00But the likes of Germany, France, Italy itself are the driving force of the EU.
03:08So once you have the big three on board, then the others follow.
03:12Of course, there are carve-outs.
03:14You cannot force a sovereign state like Belgium, who has the assets, to use them,
03:20because it's still a very debatable point.
03:23And you cannot ask Hungary that the only pipe that brings energy into the country comes from Russia.
03:31So either you understand that, you know, Orbán switches off his country for what?
03:39There is not an alternative plan.
03:41So what it seems not to be a unity is, you know, very specific cases that are very understandable.
03:48The Trump administration understood them well.
03:51And sometimes there is an ill-fated judgment in some parts of the bureaucracy in the European Union
03:58that derails from, you know, the true reality on the ground.
04:02The European Union passed all at unanimity, always all the sanctions, all the efforts towards Ukraine.
04:11Something different is taking big steps like, you know, military support and other stuff.
04:18On this, of course, each country is sovereign.
04:22Defense is not in the competence of the European Commission.
04:25It's at the member states level.
04:27So, for instance, Italy has a different stance from France.
04:31Germany is at a different stance as well.
04:33So, yes, there is some disunity.
04:36But so far, the course of action has been very united.
04:39But diplomacy at the European level has to kick in with much more strong power.
04:44Are you convinced, are you confident that that can be a fair peace deal for Ukraine?
04:51Not in the short term.
04:52I don't see it coming very soon.
04:56But I understand that what is happening, I mean, Putin claiming, you know, the escalation.
05:03It seems that all the energy, you know, attacks on energy that very successful Ukrainians are doing are having, you know, are biting.
05:17And that's something that sooner or later will take Putin to the table.
05:22Also, for how much you disregard human life, I mean, losses on the battlefield are high.
05:28And, you know, you cannot sustain indefinitely a world effort.
05:34So, you know, the problems are also on the Russian side.
05:38And sooner or later also the Russian has to come to more, you know, much more effort to find and get to a stable peace agreement.
05:47Emmanuel Macron, to you in China on Thursday, both for trade as well as Ukraine.
05:53And we had Taiwan foreign minister talking about how China is an enabler in Ukraine.
06:00What's your take on the role China can play?
06:03Is China an enabler and role China plays a spot to dial down the tension?
06:10Well, China, it's a member of the Security Council of the UN.
06:14They have veto power.
06:16They have, you know, they are a superpower.
06:19So, as any superpower, there is always, you know, if they are willing to play a role, there is a role for them to play.
06:27I would say that if they, you know, they can be effective in, you know, shaping the mind of the Russian leadership to enter a peace.
06:39So, yes, it's an enabler, both for not having peace or for having peace.
06:46So, it's a decisive actor.
06:48So, I see with interest what Macron will get out of his trip to China, although so far he has been very ineffective.
06:58We've seen the many attempts that he had done with Putin.
07:02So, I'm not expecting, but let's say positive and see if the diplomatic effort from Mr. Macron will produce any result.
07:10China, of course, a very important market for you, the biggest trading partner in Asia.
07:15How do you view the Chinese market right now, given the slowdown in its economy and data suggesting that it is still pretty leg-lost in terms of growth?
07:23Well, yes, we see with attention.
07:26Fortunately for us, yes, it's the largest market in Asia, but it's not a decisive market within our export.
07:35So, it's just a fraction of our 650 billion of export.
07:41So, we are not very afraid.
07:43And we see that with a growing middle class for our kind of export, I mean, you know, the future is bright.
07:54So, we are not very afraid.
07:56We understand the slowdown in the economy.
08:00But for our kind of exports, I mean, I don't see a real negative impact.
08:05There are just opportunities.
08:07I said, it's tiny what we are doing with China.
08:10So, I mean, if we're pushing that direction, there is really, you know, scope for great improvement and to make our export not positive.
08:19Are you concerned about China's overcapacity, China's dumping cheap products, while at the same time it is climbing the, you know, the value chain, which means it is actually competing with the likes of Italy?
08:32Yeah, of course, we see them as competitors.
08:36But there are many products that are, you know, that we are not really, you know, on the same level of competition.
08:45So, although we might, you know, feel and have a negative impact from some sort of products, there are, you know, a bandwidth of other products that, you know, are very high-end, where margins are very high, where there's basically no competition whatsoever in, you know, just the traditional luxury goods that is, you know, something easy to do.
09:09But on many other products, I would say that Italy is still very competitive and can increase what is a very low market share and low volume of export.
09:22If you consider that, you know, we export 70 billion to the U.S. and it's a mere 15 billion to China, so there is 55 billion to grow.
09:35So we are, of course, we see with attention what is going on there, but we are not afraid of the slowdown.
09:42Of course, the exports to the U.S. at risk because of the 15 percent tariffs being imposed, can that be compensated by maybe your exports to this part of the world?
09:53Well, this, Southeast Asia, it's our, of course, we have offices here in India, Singapore, Vietnam.
10:03So for us, it's a very important area to diversify our export.
10:08We see that there is, you know, room for growth and we will pursue this growth.
10:12And that's the reason why I am in my mission here, visiting clients and trying to understand the real opportunities that are on the ground for Italian corporates and to push our exports.
10:25It is a balancing act.
10:27And as we said earlier, China is a very important market.
10:30Geopolitics come into play all the time when it comes to trade.
10:32What if China asks Italy for backing for its stance on Taiwan?
10:38I mean, what do you see Italy doing and responding?
10:43Let's say that we are, Italy has, you know, one big advantage that is within the EU and within NATO.
10:51So what are our alliances are pretty clear.
10:55So it's not that we are, you know, drifting away from what our allies and discussion with our allies.
11:04So we, you know, we see what China is claiming on Taiwan.
11:09We recently have Taiwan opening a second office in Milan.
11:15We have very good ties and although the diplomatic ties are, you know, are not there, but the trade is going well.
11:24And so I don't see following, you know, a foreign country telling us where to stand.
11:31I would say that the traditional approach of standing with Taiwan is, you know, will stay in place.
11:37As we look into 2026, I mean, what are the opportunities in this part of the world?
11:42How do you see supply chains being shifted as a result of the tariffs imposed by the U.S.?
11:48And how are Italian companies navigating that and perhaps capitalizing on Asia?
11:54Well, we see that there is a unique window of opportunity for Italians and for this part of the world to deal with Italians.
12:03We have, you know, very good manufacturing that is very much needed in this part of the world for big projects.
12:12And we see something different, especially here in Singapore, that not only we can do business in this part of the world on, you know, green transition, digitalization, infrastructure, bio, biotech.
12:28So there is, you know, really many, many fields we can cooperate, but we can also cooperate in other countries.
12:35And I see the big interest of diversification, for instance, from Singapore towards Africa,
12:41where we have our piece of policy of the Socoma Tape plant that is an on-par partnership to invest in Africa with our African friends.
12:58And, you know, with Singapore and with many others in the region, we can do many things there together.
13:03So I'm very positive on the fact that there is a window of opportunity that we need to secure and diversify the supply chain.
13:11And this part of the world is good both for our imports and our exports.
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