- 3 hours ago
Six filmmakers come together for the second annual Hollywood Reporter roundtable at the Red Sea International Film Festival (RSIFF) in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia including RSIFF 2024 jury president Spike Lee, Lawrence Valin, Hala Elkoussy, Meshal Al Jaser, R.T. Thorne and Sarah Friedland. The filmmakers talk creative influences, the importance of music, why words are "overrated" and the lasting appeal of 'Do the Right Thing.'
Category
🎥
Short filmTranscript
00:00That's a beautiful thing to be a part of, to be a filmmaker, to be able to express that and then
00:06allow people from all different parts of the world, you know, I mean, I'm going to just take
00:11this opportunity and give, you know, Spike his flowers, you know, for me because it was, it was...
00:18Young blood?
00:19Yes.
00:19Excuse me, excuse me.
00:22It's just a butter thing, a butter thing, a butter thing, a butter thing.
00:30Hello and welcome everybody for our second annual Hollywood Reporter Roundtable here at
00:35the Red Sea International Film Festival.
00:37We're here in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia with six wonderful filmmakers who have taken time out
00:44to talk to us a little bit about their career and their work.
00:47They're all game changers, they're all innovators, they're all trailblazers.
00:53And I want to start with the gentleman on my left, this year's Shuri president at the Red
00:57Sea Film Festival, a man who needs no introduction.
01:00The one, the only, Spike Lee.
01:02Thank you, Spike, for being here.
01:04Nice to have you.
01:04Thank you, everyone here at the table.
01:07Next to him, we have Hela El-Kusi from Egypt.
01:12She's an artist and filmmaker.
01:14She's here with a movie called East of Noon.
01:16It's a very experimental film, very surrealist, very challenging.
01:22Talks about youth and yearning for freedom and many other things.
01:26If you haven't seen it, it's something that touches you a lot.
01:32Next to her, we have RT over here from Canada.
01:36Thank you for coming all the way as well.
01:38He's a multi-hyphenate.
01:39He can do it all.
01:40He can write, produce, direct.
01:43He's done music videos.
01:44He's doing features now.
01:46His film screening here at the Red Sea Festival is called 40 Acres.
01:50It's set in a utopian future, so to speak, and it's full of drama, full of emotion, and it has the wonderful Daniel Dettweiler in it as well.
02:05Then I want to go over here, Lawrence.
02:08He's here from France.
02:10His parents are originally from Sri Lanka, and he's really an actor and a director.
02:18If you have not seen his film, Little Chafna, that's here in the program, he's actually the lead actor and the director.
02:26It's about a policeman who has to go undercover to infiltrate a Tamil gang, and a lot of drama, a lot of emotional stuff happens, plus action.
02:38It's like a mix of a lot of things.
02:40Hopefully, we can talk about it a little bit more as well.
02:43Next to him, I want to welcome Sarah Friedland.
02:46You know, she's here from the U.S.
02:48No, where in the U.S.?
02:50Brooklyn, New York.
02:53Which part of Brooklyn?
02:55South Brooklyn.
02:57Uh-huh, nice.
02:58Well, we have the New York connection here.
03:01Brooklyn's in the house.
03:05Sarah is a choreographer, has worked with dance videos, and she is her first narrative feature film here.
03:12It's called Familiar Touch.
03:13It's about a woman who gets checked into a managed living home, assisted living home by her son, and we hopefully get to talk about that as well.
03:23And then last, but definitely not least, we have here with us, Michelle L. Chasser.
03:29He's the Saudi, homegrown, up-and-comer.
03:32He had a wonderful movie here at the Red Sea Film Festival last year called Naga.
03:37If you have not seen it, I hear it's still on Netflix, right?
03:43They're very happy with that.
03:44And it's a story, if you like, stories of young women who go to secret parties in the desert and then need to rush home to make curfew, but get chased by a crazy camel.
03:55So, that's definitely one for you.
03:58Thank you, Michelle, for being here.
04:00Thank you for having me.
04:01Before we talk about all your backgrounds, I wanted to ask you, Spike, I saw you on the opening night on the red carpet, say hello to Michael Douglas.
04:08There were all these other people who wanted to take selfies with you, but I know you're not here to just socialize with people you already know.
04:13Tell us a little bit why it was important for you to come here to Saudi Arabia and to the Red Sea Film Festival to be the jury president.
04:19I was surprised.
04:21I mean, it's something I was expecting.
04:23So, when I got the call, I said, for sure, I love cinema.
04:28I love especially world cinema.
04:31And this gives me opportunity to see films that I probably never had seen.
04:37So, we're halfway through and a lot of surprises and there's talent all over the world, not just in Hollywood.
04:47See, that's wonderful.
04:48It is one of the newer countries that's starting to make a lot of films, Saudi Arabia.
04:53Michelle, I wanted to ask you, a few years ago, the country started opening up to filmmakers and the box office has been on the rise.
05:00There's been a lot of young creative talent trying to make films.
05:04You started with short videos that here ended up on YouTube and then moved into features.
05:09Talk a little bit about how the opening up has kind of helped you move from the shorter to longer form content.
05:15You know, before cinema wasn't really accessible.
05:18So, we were just trying to express ourselves in whatever medium is possible.
05:23And now that it's open, you know, it means that it's being embraced and taken seriously as a part of, vital part of the culture and the economic system.
05:33And, you know, the government is doing so much to show support and take the industry in a serious manner in terms of, you know, grants to cash rebates, to opening big studios like studios in Al-Ula and big time studios.
05:55And it's being really done fast and exceptional time.
06:00Now, for the rest of you, I don't know, who's been here before, who's new to the country?
06:06And do you guys come here to just have another audience where you can show your movie?
06:11Do you come here and think, oh, maybe I could shoot something here eventually?
06:15What's going to be the exciting part?
06:16This is my third.
06:18First time was Malcolm X.
06:20Oh, yeah.
06:20There's a scene in that that was produced.
06:22We were the first ever allowed to bring a camera into Mecca during Hajj.
06:29So, I hired a, not being a Muslim, I hired a Muslim crew.
06:34And a couple of years ago, we showed Malcolm X.
06:38It's never been shown here.
06:39So, this is the third time.
06:41Nice.
06:42How about you?
06:43No, that's my first time in Saudi Arabia.
06:45Probably, let's say, I didn't imagine a future that would include me being in Saudi Arabia in a film festival.
06:53So, let's say.
06:54Why is that?
06:55Because it was not forthcoming.
06:56Let's put it this way.
06:58It's a surprise to the whole of the Arab world somehow and also the world.
07:02So, we're witnessing a big change here.
07:07Yeah, no, it's definitely my first time over here.
07:11And, yeah, it was a beautiful opportunity to come and, as Spike said, just, like, see films from voices that, you know, we've never heard from before.
07:21See culture in a way that we've never heard before, you know, coming from a Western country like this.
07:26And then, and then also just, I'm just, you know, I'm a human.
07:30I love to travel.
07:31I love to meet people and experience their culture.
07:34So, you know, understand that and learn and, and then have a chance to share my voice and share what, you know, my story is and, and, and expose them to our side too.
07:46So, yeah.
07:48Anything you guys want to add?
07:49You tell everything.
07:50I can just say the same.
07:53No, for me, it was like, you know, it seems like it's the beginning of something here and people, it's not used to go to the cinema.
08:01And in France, you have cinema everywhere.
08:04And, and at that time, I realized that we are privileged.
08:06They are like, okay, it's normal for us.
08:08But for this, those people, it's like, okay, it's the beginning.
08:12And I was like, wow, how they are all reacting in the, in the theater rooms.
08:17And one little boy surprised me because, you know, his phone ringing, he take his phone and he was speaking.
08:22And I was like, what?
08:24And I, at that time, I said, okay, it didn't have still the, you know, the use to, okay, they are like learning to, and it's normal because it's just a thing culture.
08:35And I was like, don't be the French guy.
08:37Oh, what are you doing here?
08:38And that's the thing, it's good because it's like, you're traveling, other culture, other thing, and you are just experienced, other, yeah, other experience of cultural experience.
08:53I don't know if it's clear.
08:54Sorry.
08:55No, no, that's, you know, that's like, you know, back home, it's like this cinemas in Scarborough, you go to Scarborough, late night cinema, and people be yelling at the screens, you know what I mean?
09:05And, like, it's just, that's just a different type of culture to see how it is.
09:12So, yeah, it's beautiful.
09:13I look forward to that.
09:15Yeah.
09:16I just landed three hours ago.
09:18I'm looking forward to seeing.
09:20Oh, my goodness.
09:20To seeing what it's like to share my film.
09:21You just got here, huh?
09:22I just got here.
09:24Yeah, I mean, I'd heard beautiful things about Colleen's programming, and that's part of what drew me here.
09:28But also for me, because my film centers on aging and the experience of a woman who's aging, the greatest privilege of the festival circuit has been talking to people about their experience of elder care in different countries.
09:42And I've yet to share the film in the Middle East.
09:45So I'm really excited to talk to people about their experiences of aging here, you know, what sort of care infrastructure exists, how do people sort of relate to our character, even if she's very specifically an American woman.
09:59So, yeah, I can't wait.
10:02Maybe you guys can talk about your latest films.
10:06Some of you have them here.
10:08Michelle, you can maybe talk a little bit about Naga or any new project you want to talk about.
10:14You know, I'm curious.
10:16People sometimes say, I think early this year, someone said to me, oh, I love myself a Spike Lee film.
10:21To my friend.
10:22Yeah, who is that?
10:23Oh, I'll give you a sound.
10:24And my friend, you know, he says, oh, I'll watch a Spike Lee film, you know, and there's certain brand values you go, oh, I know I get something that I will enjoy.
10:39Maybe it speaks to me.
10:39It's a voice that I like.
10:40And so I wanted to ask you a little bit about cinematic voice and whether you guys think you have a very particular cinematic voice or not, or there's anything that's important in your latest film that you say this shows who I am particularly strongly.
10:54As you said, I come from a background of visual arts and coming to cinema felt like something urgent that I needed to do because after a certain, let's say, level, like attaining a certain level of success as a visual artist,
11:12it felt to me like I wanted to reach out to audiences, specifically in the Arab world.
11:20The visual arts are very elitist in this part of the world.
11:24Their dissemination, their consumption, their interpretation, it's all very limited.
11:31And so I had to revise my position, thinking, like, why did I come to visual arts?
11:37I came to visual arts because I, let's say, had a vision to share with others.
11:42And now it feels like I'm sharing it in museums and biennials abroad.
11:48So what is it that I can do?
11:50Because I still have many other things that I want to say to reach out to my people specifically initially, you know.
11:57And then I thought, OK, cinema does not need a mediator in the sense that films, at least in Egypt, end up eventually on the pirated on the Internet and everybody can watch.
12:11And it's actually something that I kind of feel is good because they go everywhere and then they live and they have different lives.
12:20But I wanted to bring my own voice as a visual artist to films.
12:24Because Egypt is a country with a very long history of filmmaking.
12:28But I wanted to make films as the visual artist that I am because in the end, I did not start from zero.
12:35And in my visual art, I'm concerned with the idea that we have all this very, very long history of like a cultural history that deserves to be.
12:46Well, Egypt, right?
12:47Yes, to be tapped into for not just inspiration, but for visual language.
12:53I mean, when I first started making art, I was likened to Western philosophers and thinkers and writers.
13:00This is what the Europeans needed to place my work.
13:05You know, they had to relate me to Foucault or they had to relate me to Godard.
13:08And I continuously continue to insist that I'm bringing my references from a local source and bringing them to this moment in time.
13:20So it's not like I'm not making folklore.
13:22I'm actually revisiting these, let's say, terms of visual language, the vocabulary of my visual language,
13:32to bring them to audiences everywhere so that eventually they will join in the international way of interpreting or seeing, you see,
13:43because we deserve to be there and we learn the visual language of others.
13:51And it is important that somehow this is how we appreciate each other, by having a presence that is our own.
13:59I feel like, I feel, you know, that film is that medium.
14:05Film and music, those to me, in terms of the art forms, are the most accessible.
14:12They're inclusive, I think, inherently.
14:17You don't have to even understand the language of a song.
14:21You catch the vibe of the song.
14:23You feel it emotionally.
14:24And it's just very much the same thing, I think, in film.
14:26There is this opportunity in film to reach almost anybody and for you to be swept up in that.
14:33And I think what you said, just, you know, there's a humanity, I think, to film that it draws you in and gives you an experience with certain person's life or certain culture.
14:46And you get to live that.
14:49And it's, that's a beautiful thing to be a part of, to be a filmmaker, to be able to express that and then allow people from all different parts of the world, you know,
15:00I mean, I'm going to just take this opportunity and give, you know, Spike his flowers, you know, for me because it was, it was...
15:09Young blood?
15:10Yes.
15:10You know what I mean?
15:12Excuse me, excuse me.
15:12It's just a butter thing, a butter thing, a butter thing, a butter thing, a butter thing.
15:16But, you know, like when I was 16, I saw Do the Right Thing.
15:21Wasn't quite, I didn't get to see it in the theater, but I saw it on VHS, so I'm still aging myself.
15:26Immediately, I saw that film.
15:28I rewound it and watched it again immediately, you know, and it was the first film.
15:33What, the ice cube scene you kept me winding?
15:35I remember the whole, I remember the whole, the whole film, you know.
15:41But, to say, you know, it was like, you know, it was, it was the first film that clicked for me as a young, young man to see that, you know,
15:56especially movies that you get when you watch movies in, you know, in North America, you see a lot of entertainment.
16:03And it was entertaining, but it also, it also spoke to me on an emotional level.
16:11It taught me things.
16:12It brought me to realizations.
16:15And that film can do that, can open a mind up while still entertaining, making you laugh, making you angry, making you cry.
16:24It can do all those things.
16:25And you can walk away from it thinking for days, you know, and, and so that was the first film that did that for me as well, you know.
16:32So, so it's a beautiful thing to be a filmmaker.
16:35I guess I'm just saying, it's a beautiful thing to be a filmmaker.
16:37It's incredible.
16:38I think I will always say the same thing.
16:41But in a way, you know, the thing is, do the right thing, make me the same thing.
16:45But in another way, the thing is, you're a black American.
16:48And, and it's, it's a way that you have models after you watch this film, you say, okay, we can do these things.
16:54Well, I'll say, I'll say, I'll say, like, I'm black Canadian.
16:57So, you know, and we do have, we do have, and our cultures are very similar.
17:01But Spike's film showed me something.
17:04You're right.
17:04As an example, I said, wow, you can do something like that.
17:08It creates a path.
17:09Yes.
17:09You know, for, for me, as when I, when I started as an actor, there wasn't any parts.
17:15You know, I was like looking Denzel Washington.
17:17And I was like, okay, I want to do, but he's a black American.
17:20And I was like a French Tamil man.
17:22And I have no models, nothing.
17:25And you have to create the path.
17:26Yes.
17:27And when I, Little Jaffna, I always said, and it was the joke when they proposed me to do the round table with Spike.
17:33It was like, I tell everyone, Little Jaffna, do the right thing, Tamil version in the, in French, you know.
17:39Yeah.
17:39Because it's the thing.
17:40So, Le Hain, Little Jaffna.
17:42Le Hain.
17:43Le Hain.
17:45And you know what he said?
17:46He said he never saw do the right thing.
17:48Who?
17:48Casio Veri.
17:50The right.
17:50All right.
17:52He said he never saw do the right thing.
17:54Man.
17:54He said he never saw do the right thing.
18:00Man.
18:01I saw do the right thing.
18:02I'm not you.
18:03I fell by him.
18:05I'm not you.
18:05But the thing is, for us, it was like, okay, I have to create new representation.
18:12Because when you don't have any representation, it is very difficult to think that I can direct, I can act.
18:19And the thing is, for me, it's like just new.
18:21I just did this debut film.
18:23It's like for every person, Tamil community in France, it's like, they were like, okay, we are doing something new and we don't know.
18:29And it's just the beginning.
18:31And it's...
18:32How did you get your film made?
18:33I get in the classical way.
18:36I have done all the studies in La Femise.
18:39And before I was an actor, I get all the cliches role that the Indian guy, the Indian best friend, the fuck here, all the stuff.
18:47And even I started to speak English with an accent.
18:50Which, you know, and to, you know, let me hear you, let me hear you, your New York accent.
18:58In French, you want to use it?
18:59I speak in French?
19:00No.
19:01You just say you practice an Indian accent.
19:03No, I can speak like this and you, if you want, but I don't want to, you know.
19:09And the thing is, at one point I said, okay, I have to go to the other side, start writing, start telling stories that not without any cliche and represent my community.
19:21And in a way, you know, in Little Jaffna, there is very political stuff.
19:24And when I started searching films that seem like, okay, in an entertainment way, and at the same time, there is a very important message in it, for me to do the right thing was the perfect film to say, okay, I want to do like this.
19:39But we're in France, but we're in France and in this community.
19:42Yeah.
19:43Michelle, I'm curious, this last year, I remember, I walked the halls of the market, the Souk.
19:49And Netflix had this booth with pictures of your film, Naga, there.
19:54And I looked at them, and I remember there were young kids walking by who were probably local, or at least from the region.
20:01And they said, oh, they were pointing at them.
20:04And I thought, they must be thinking, oh, look, one of our guys did this.
20:08Maybe we can get a movie out there.
20:10Did you ever think about wanting to open the path for creatives in the region, or at least in Saudi Arabia?
20:17I mean, I just have a humble experience.
20:21I just started, the industry just started.
20:23So there's definitely a sense of privilege, but also responsibility and pressure to be part of this generation of filmmakers.
20:31Because, you know, your typical, I would say, filmmaker journey, he comes in in a sustainable industry, and it's an individual journey for success.
20:43And for us, I think it's more of teamwork.
20:46It's a collective, because it's not your own.
20:49It's not just, should I, it's not an individual mission where I should just get the awards and not care.
20:56I have to be part of, you know, making sure that it's also a sustainable industry.
21:02It's both, you know, it's a high responsibility, but also really empowering and exciting.
21:08Thanks.
21:09Yeah.
21:09Sarah?
21:10Yeah.
21:10I mean, in terms of the films that I make, as you said,
21:14I'm coming from a background making dance films.
21:16But the dance films that I've been making aren't sort of from a lineage of stylized dance.
21:22Where did you go to school?
21:23I went to Brown.
21:24Brown?
21:25Ivy League.
21:25Yeah, so my films sort of look at social choreographies.
21:31That is sort of the movement of everyday life.
21:34And I think now moving into narrative work, I feel like my work is to sort of encode through movement types of stories that have previously been told through language.
21:45So this film that I've made, it's a character study, but it's really a character study that's sort of told through the physical perspective of our character.
21:53And that's what I really want to keep making, is films that really have this, like, language of the body and the choreographic.
21:59Yeah, kind of told through choreographic patterns.
22:03Yeah, I noticed the first few minutes, no word is said.
22:06And I'm sitting there going, what's happening here?
22:08Who is this?
22:09What's going on?
22:11Wait, is this a documentary?
22:12Or is this fiction?
22:14And you immediately, you know, lean forward.
22:17It makes me think, oh, there's a good reaction, right?
22:19Because at some point I'm thinking, what am I doing?
22:21Okay, and then, you know, things slowly emerge.
22:25But I thought, oh, yeah, this is how it would happen if you actually just looked into somebody's window and go, you don't have to explain what the guy outside is wondering about.
22:34The guy outside needs to figure out what's happening here.
22:38Words are overrated.
22:39I agree.
22:40Words are overrated.
22:41Okay.
22:42We learn more about people through their gestures, their body language, these little interactions than I think we often do through dialogue.
22:49And that's, I mean, that's, to me, the cinematic language that I'm really looking for.
22:55Artie and Lawrence both have music in the films as well.
22:59And I think, Lawrence, you have some people dancing, moving quite a bit.
23:05And Artie, you have one of the characters, you know, putting on some music.
23:08And then talk a little bit about how you guys think about music, because we're talking about words.
23:13How important is music and movement to you since Sarah brought it up?
23:17Yeah, maybe I start like that.
23:18Sure.
23:19And I'll say, yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:22Absolutely.
23:23Now, for me, music, you know, I grew up with not Bollywood, but Kollywood industry.
23:32Because when I was little, when I looked French film, the hero wasn't my color scheme.
23:37And I was like, okay, I want to be like Alain Delon or Jean-Paul Belmondo, but it's not the same color.
23:43Okay, maybe, but...
23:45And the thing is, I grew up with Kollywood, Kollywood's like Bollywood, but there is political stuff and music.
23:52Every dance, everything.
23:53And I grew up with always keeping with the music.
23:56And the music is like, you know, a way for me to bring emotion that don't have to have, you know, the same level of what you're looking in the image.
24:07It's not to have to be in the same, you know, to, okay, if it's not, it's sad, we have to put sadness.
24:13Right.
24:13I mean, in a other way, if it's very happy, I will put another thing to create another emotion.
24:20And for, just for an example, we are in the church and there is a procession scene with the older community.
24:27And people started to put a classical Christian sound like, okay, we are in the church.
24:32And I put like a red metallic sound.
24:34And I was like, yeah, that's good.
24:37Because it was like, I never seen that before.
24:39And emotionally, it's keep me going another way.
24:42And that's the thing.
24:44It's like, you know, people, when they look the film, they say there is a lot of brown people.
24:49And they say, okay, it's a Bollywood.
24:51And I always said, no, no, it's a French film.
24:53The thing is, I take influence of Bollywood film and I mix it with the French style film.
24:59And I think the music is very important.
25:01I have to listen to it.
25:03You know, normally, as some director in France, we say, we don't want to hear just it's calm.
25:09And I always say to my compositor, I want to hear everything.
25:13What I would say is, I started my career directing in music videos.
25:18That was my way into, you know, it's almost like being a filmmaker was a little too big an idea for me at the beginning.
25:28And I love music.
25:30And I love being around, you know, artists and hip hop artists.
25:34And I would film them and go backstage and convince them to, you know, to let me do videos for them and stuff like that.
25:41So I always love that aspect.
25:44And I think that's just being a young person.
25:47Like, you know, when you're young and you have access to music, music speaks to you in a way that you can't express.
25:53It becomes your language.
25:55And so, you know, it had to be, it's a part of my life and it's a part of all of my expression.
26:01So it has to play a major part in my film.
26:05And, you know, in my film, one of the things that I had not seen was a black experience in this kind of a dystopian world.
26:16You know, really, truthfully, what would that be?
26:18Oftentimes when we do see, if we do, you know, we're just getting to see black experiences in the future.
26:23Like, we weren't really represented back then.
26:25We were always maybe some background player in Star Trek, you know, walking along the halls or something.
26:31But like now we're getting to see some.
26:32And for me, you know, we take a dystopian narrative about a family, you know, on a farm.
26:39Normally when you see black people on farms in Western thing, we're slaves.
26:44You know what I'm saying?
26:44But for me, I wanted to do, this is a family that is not only surviving in the future, but thriving in the future.
26:52And what is their experience going to be like?
26:55And it's also a black and indigenous family.
26:58So it's, again, you don't see that experience usually.
27:02So I wanted to see that.
27:03And what is the experience of a dystopian future for these people?
27:07It's going to be one that is culturally informed.
27:11So music is so important to our cultures.
27:16I have a young teenage boy.
27:18You know, we have a pivotal scene in the movie.
27:20I don't want to spoil it, but, you know, where he's listening to something and everybody's had that moment where you're listening and you're watching somebody and someone is dancing.
27:31There's a young woman dancing and he's transfixed in this moment, you know.
27:36And so I wanted to capture those moments of being a young person and experiencing that through music, even though it's in this horrible, dark, dystopian world.
27:50You know what I mean?
27:51I feel like those are all things that come from a personal experience and I wanted it to be in the film.
27:57And so that's how it worked its way into my film.
28:01Well, it seems it's not a coincidence I'm seated next to you.
28:05So my protagonist is a young man, teenager, I mean, older teenager.
28:11My film is a dystopia, but not in the future.
28:14And he rebels through making music.
28:17When I had to think about how this young person could express the fact that he wants change, the first answer was that he's definitely an artist.
28:32But what kind of artist?
28:33And then it became obvious that it has to be music because music has this thing about it.
28:41You cannot stop music.
28:43You couldn't stop music in communist East Germany, going to West Germany and creating this whole scene.
28:49You couldn't stop music in Iran.
28:51So I kind of followed suit.
28:53But at the same time, since he had to be innovating through music, I couldn't have him adopt the established ways of making music that we have now.
29:03He had to kind of create something that does not exist and to kind of create this distance between him and the establishment.
29:14So we kind of built him instruments in this dystopian world.
29:21The work on the music started when we had the first version of the script because it took five years that we were working with a composer and a sound designer.
29:30We first built the instruments and that was the only thing that I told the composer is that whatever sound you're going to make for this young man, it cannot come from an instrument that we know.
29:44Because I'm going to assign the established instruments to authority.
29:48They would become the voice of authority and then this young man has to have something completely different.
29:54So if you first had to build the instruments, then we had to tune the instruments because music had to be written for these instruments, it could not just be noise.
30:04Then he composed for the instruments, recorded them.
30:07And then when we cast the actor, he had to practice playing these instruments.
30:13What are these instruments called?
30:15You have a name for it?
30:15No, I mean, he kind of referenced them to already existing instruments, but they were made from junk.
30:20And then we had to create this whole wall behind him for how he could in an analog way sample his music because otherwise it would not be inclusive for young people today.
30:35They could not imagine that these young people could sample music.
30:39But he was playing with flip-flops and tubes from what's called the sewers, plastic tubes and jerry canes and all sorts of stuff.
30:50So I feel I'm seated in the right place.
30:52I feel you.
30:53You know, what's even more interesting is that my composer, Toto Kabakov from Canada, he did something very similar to what you're talking about for our score.
31:07Yeah.
31:07For our score, he didn't want to use established instruments.
31:11He went out and recorded bark on trees, breaking and old steel drums.
31:17And he made the percussion and the sounds of our score from those recordings.
31:23My protagonist does this in the film.
31:26He samples the sounds of this dystopic environment in which he lives and then he puts it into his music.
31:31I wonder if my composer saw your film.
31:33No, but when you have one person doing something and then a second person doing something, then you feel you're, you know, it's good.
31:43The same.
31:43Yeah.
31:43So we kind of, music is important, we said.
31:48Words are overrated.
31:49So then we're coming up with some kind of direction.
31:52Well, not direction, but a feeling that this world is kind of looking for something else.
31:58Or at least, yeah, that's how it feels.
32:00So Spike was also taking notes.
32:01He was paying close attention.
32:03Spike, are you thinking about using some input from the music side?
32:08How do you usually approach thinking about music?
32:11Well, first of all, my late father is a great jazz bassist, folk bassist.
32:17He worked with Bob Dylan, Judy Collins, Aretha Franklin, and a whole bunch of people.
32:22So I grew up in a musical household.
32:25Come out of film school, he did the scores for She's Gonna Have It, School Days, Do The Right, Think More, Better, Blues.
32:30I grew up in a, again, music household.
32:34I've always, even as a kid, understood how music could work to help tell a story.
32:44This new film has a lot of music in it, too.
32:49Also, we're in post-production now.
32:51It's with Denzel Washington.
32:53Can you talk about it?
32:55I'm getting there.
32:57You up, blood?
32:58It's not a remake, but a reinterpretation of the great Kira Kosawa's film, High and Low.
33:10And we're in post-production, and it's the fifth film with Denzel.
33:14My buddy, just saw him on Gladiator 2, he's killing it.
33:18In Order, Mobile Blues, Malcolm X, He Got Game, Inside Man, and this new one, it's called Highest to Lowest.
33:28And until someone mentioned to me, you know, Inside Man was 18 years ago, so that's a long gap.
33:34But, you know, it was like we've seen each other yesterday.
33:39He's amazing.
33:41And it's just...
33:44Denzel, I mean, that guy.
33:47He is just...
33:50So, I've just been very blessed with, you know, working with him.
33:55So, let's keep it going.
33:56Dynamic Duo.
33:57You know, we call him D.
34:00So, Dynamic Duo is D and Lee.
34:05What other art forms that you have not actually worked in to appreciate?
34:10Is there anything where you say, oh, I never talk about it so much, but there's some art form that I enjoy, or maybe it's some other hobby?
34:17I mean, I think for me, in terms of screenwriting, I get really inspired by other forms of writing performance.
34:25So, like movement scores, other types of sort of experimental script writing, different types of like notational systems really interest me.
34:34And so, often when writing scripts, I don't write them first in the screenplay format, but I'll write out kind of maps or diagrams.
34:41So, yeah, I think like performance artists who work in these sort of notational systems really fascinate me.
34:47I mean, you know, being involved in music and music videos younger, just like, you know, dance is such a pivotal part of expressing yourself when there is music and even when there isn't music.
35:06And so, and I feel, I don't know, there's something about movement and rhythm that I think works its way into almost everything that we do as filmmakers.
35:19Like you, you don't know what it is, but you feel it in a scene.
35:23You feel the movement of a scene.
35:26It's kind of hard to explain it, but you know it when you're watching it, you know, and when you're crafting it, you understand that.
35:34There's an inherent kind of rhythm.
35:36So, a dance is very, I don't know, you know, life is a dance, you know what I mean?
35:41So, yeah.
35:42Yeah, I didn't go to film school, but I did study choreography.
35:45And I almost think everyone who wants to be a filmmaker should study choreography because it's like the blocking is so much exactly what you're talking about.
35:54I collaborated with a choreographer on my first film, even though there was no dance, because I felt like some scenes, you really want to distill the movement.
36:04In order to kind of get to the meaning, you know, you want to remove all the extra stuff that does not take you where you want to go.
36:15And in this film, I collaborated with a choreographer, there is some dance, but I also collaborate on scenes that don't have dance.
36:23Where I feel that I just wanted to kind of, yeah, distill is what I want to say.
36:31Just as much as you edit out words that are not necessary, then sometimes with movements you also need to do that.
36:38So, yeah, I remember there are some scenes in your film as well, you know, where the movement is very important and, you know, acrobatic and the dance things.
36:50Like how did you have a choreographer come in for that or how did you?
36:54I think for Tamil people, it's natural.
36:58We don't have choreographers, we just put the sound and it's...
37:04No, for serious, yeah, I think that for me, you're talking about choreographer and dance.
37:12For me, it's the dress and it's very important for me.
37:16I think when I grew up, I grew up very from a, how to say, not rich family.
37:21And I think when I go outside, I need to have another kind of dress that build me like, okay, I have some prestigious.
37:30And when I come to the film making, as an actor, when you put some clothes, you put it and you come into the role.
37:37It gives you something special.
37:39When you're even, you just put another dress, you have another way of looking, way of standing.
37:48And when I've done the film for the Widowjahna, I was like, every young boy in the hood, they are like dressed black, gray and blue, dark.
37:59And they don't want to put color.
38:01And I was like, okay, we're going to put color on you.
38:04And say, yeah, but, you know, people will look us really close.
38:07I said, no, people will, I want you to look very cool.
38:11And for me, it's like, and even I start again speaking, do the right thing.
38:16When I look the, and it's so, the shoes, everything.
38:22I was like, wow.
38:23You mean, you mean the Jordans.
38:25Yeah.
38:26The thing is, and I, and I don't put Jordans because I say, everyone say, you do like Spike Lee.
38:32And I say, okay, I put other stuff.
38:34And you will want, but the thing is, for me, it's very important because that give a unique way of, of, yeah, creating something that when they, when they put the dress, they were like, hey, feel cool.
38:49Okay.
38:50We can be like that.
38:51And that is the thing that, that transform you in a, in another way.
38:55And for me, it was, that was the thing that I can control and put and, and after I let that be, I don't have any, I think, choreographer to dance or not.
39:04But this is my way of, uh, building stuff before, and after I let it, uh, leave.
39:13Michel, in Naga, I feel there's a lot of movement or it feels like there's a lot of, you know, uh, movement in it.
39:20Did you do this mostly through editing, cutting, did you, did you have like a movement choreographer, this, you know, this, uh, the camel chasing and the, you know, I, I, I remember thinking afterwards, wow, I'm exhausted from watching this.
39:35And I thought, uh, I don't know how he did this, but I felt like I needed a drink and the rest after, after watching that film.
39:41Uh, I did, I know, I'm sorry about that, but I never, uh, I never had a choreographer, no.
39:47Uh, I think I tend to, uh, just hire the person like, uh, like Mr. Spike Lee.
39:54I started with acting in the beginning and I tend to like to hire non-actors, you know, people that usually have no interest in cinema.
40:03And that becomes very challenging, especially, uh, with, you know, uh, elder Saudi men and women acting with them because they always, you know, they, they will be shy.
40:13And my goal is to really, uh, create a comfortable, uh, environment for them to express something genuine to capture their raw, uh, essence.
40:24Um, and, uh, I think with, uh, with the real, with the actual actor, um, you know, uh, he, he's always looking for the authenticity, looking for something real.
40:37So we can, he can give us the illusion that he's, he's actually the real deal.
40:41He's the character, but with a non-actor, you already have that, already have the authenticity and the substance and everything.
40:47And you just have to make sure they don't look at the camera too.
40:54It's more of those two things.
40:57Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. But, uh, I would say one of the most difficult things to, to have like a, someone in his 60s, his 80s, interested in cinema from Saudi that he's performing.
41:10There are probably a couple, you know, a handful of people that want to do that.
41:15And, you know, you end up with the mom being the mom in every show and every TV show and every movie.
41:21So you have to be creative. You have to, you have to, you have to, you have to, you have to, you have to, you have to attract more actors.
41:25Right, right, right.
41:26You have to hunt them down.
41:27I understand totally because in France, it's the same thing.
41:30Tamil people think it's a hobby. It's not a real, uh, work.
41:34And when I go there, I say, yeah, we're going to shoot. Can you, uh, can I take your daughter or your, or your son to, to the film?
41:42They are like looking at me and say, and they're like, uh, now why, uh, I want a real, uh, work.
41:47And I say, it's a real work. Believe me.
41:49But it's very hard because, you know, it's like you, you have to work with non-professional actors to create that because we don't have anyone before.
42:00And that's the thing. I, uh, and in that point, I feel connected.
42:04Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Cause they, they really care about privacy the most.
42:09And, you know, cinema is the total opposite. You're like, I want you to come in this thing that you're not interested in and be vulnerable.
42:15And, you know, so it's a challenge to hunt them down and just like convince them to, to do whatever you want them to do.
42:22That combo of professional actors and non-professional actors can be so exciting.
42:26Exactly.
42:27Like on, on my film, our lead actor is Kathleen Chalfant. She's like a legend of the New York stage.
42:34Uh, but then we shot in a real retirement community.
42:36So then everybody, other than the five main roles, everyone were, were real older adults and caregivers.
42:42Um, and then our actors basically ended up sort of being in residence in this care facility.
42:48And then the exchange, my favorite is the exchange between the professional actors and non-professional actors.
42:52They always have something to add.
42:54Yeah. And the actors meet, the actors learn from the, you know, the non-professionals and non-professionals learn from the actors.
43:00And that, that synergy is my favorite.
43:02Yeah, me too.
43:03That's great.
43:04And I, I, I want to ask, I, I, I, I hear so much passion and so much, you know, like, like how we talked about how this is a profession, not just a hobby.
43:15If, God forbid, uh, you guys couldn't make films, what, what, what, what job would you guys love to do?
43:22I did so many jobs over the years, so many different things.
43:26And what have you done?
43:26No, I mean, I mean, as a visual artist, I kind of don't see that anything that I do is above, you know, like I, I, you know, like during Corona when I was, when I kind of was locked down, then I was, uh, gardening, you know, and then gardening became, you know, I was, became crazy about gardening.
43:43But, but to answer the questions, I don't, uh, and I make my own costumes and I, and I'm, and I do my own production design.
43:49And I've always done that for the last 20 years.
43:52Wow.
43:53I get the co-editing credit for my films.
43:56I mean, basically, I'm, I started out doing everything myself.
43:59And then as I kind of got more memes.
44:01You sort of let go a little bit.
44:03Yeah, I was filming also myself.
44:05So, um, as I, so, so it would, I would be on like my first short film.
44:09It was just three people.
44:11This is the, this is the crew.
44:13And then a hundred extras.
44:15I love extras.
44:16I mean, uh, yeah, exactly.
44:19We were talking about because, because extras, at least in Egypt,
44:22sit between these two worlds, uh, of professionals and non-professionals, because
44:26most of them, um, are not doing this all the time.
44:32Um, they, they cannot rely on just this, but they love being on, you know, in front
44:38of the camera.
44:40Um, but they don't necessarily have the skills to kind of progress and become a
44:44speaking character.
44:46But it's, it's a whole, so it was three people, me and two assistants and a hundred
44:51extras.
44:52And that was fun.
44:53But to answer this question very briefly, if I would have to not do what I'm doing in
44:59another life, I would just definitely appreciate not having a boss.
45:02I mean, this, the last three months are the first time where I'm filmmaking as my full-time
45:11job.
45:12I've had day jobs.
45:14Um, and I, I mean, honestly, I would, I would continue doing some of those day jobs.
45:19I've loved them.
45:19I think the two that I've loved most and that led to making Familiar Touch is I worked as
45:24a caregiver for New York City artists with dementia for about four years.
45:28And then that led to being a teaching artist and teaching in retirement communities and
45:32older adult centers.
45:34And I, I just, I love intergenerational relationships.
45:37So I think I would probably go back to caregiving and teaching work, although I'm continuing to
45:42teach.
45:44Um, but if I like really had to go far outside of our field, I'd be an archeologist.
45:49Whoa.
45:50Okay.
45:51Interesting.
45:51I think the digging, the material culture.
45:55I have a much shallow answer.
45:57Go for it.
45:58Uh, uh, I, I, I wanted to be a soccer player and I, and I think I speak for every Arab man
46:04when I say it's always the A plan to become a soccer player, whatever.
46:10It's always a B plan.
46:11So I still try to try to do that.
46:13What's the team in Saudi?
46:14Is it the local Benzema team or is it the Ronaldo team that?
46:18It's actually none.
46:19It's, uh, uh, Al-Hilal.
46:21Oh, okay.
46:21They did the Neymar team.
46:24The Neymar team.
46:25Oh, you know.
46:27I'm very, I'm interested in you say that.
46:28Like, how is it in, in Saudi culture?
46:31Or like, would the parents be very supportive of you being, trying to be a soccer player?
46:36No.
46:36I mean, honestly, I wasn't that.
46:39I wasn't that.
46:39That's what I'm saying.
46:40That's what I'm saying.
46:42You know?
46:42They're a double letter.
46:43Yeah.
46:44Yeah.
46:44Yeah.
46:44You know what?
46:45It's done.
46:45But, uh, it's just, they just don't want you to be, you know, injured and then it's done.
46:50That's the, that's usually the excuse.
46:51Right.
46:52Right.
46:52And then when I did filmmaking, since they didn't know it was a real career, I just kind of faded
46:56in into it.
46:57What do they want?
46:58What do they, what would they prefer you to be?
47:01What's the, you know, the, you know, your typical, you know, uh, obvious job.
47:06Yeah.
47:07Yeah.
47:07Doctor, lawyer, engineer.
47:09Yeah.
47:10Yeah.
47:10Yeah.
47:10Something that would, with a clear purpose.
47:14Yes.
47:14Yeah.
47:15Very similar.
47:15Very similar.
47:16They want to save you from existential anxiety.
47:18Exactly.
47:18Because that's what I always say.
47:19It's like, if I were a doctor, I would never question why I'm here.
47:23Yeah.
47:24But then I'm still questioning why I'm here.
47:28Yeah.
47:30Um, oh, I, you know, I mean, uh, for me, I, I don't know.
47:36I, I, I couldn't.
47:37Would you have a boss?
47:39Oh, no, I can't.
47:40Okay.
47:40We can work by excuse.
47:41Yeah.
47:41I mean, you know, my, my whole career.
47:44It's just been the hustle, the, the entire career, you know, with music videos, it started
47:50just, just chasing people down and convincing them you can do something.
47:54So I've been that, I've been, uh, I've been that type of a hustle for, for my whole thing.
47:58And so I don't know how to work in that, uh, under a boss, let's say, but, um, yeah, I would
48:05say I'll put a twist on the question and say, because my film is a dystopian film.
48:11So in the, in the future, there ain't no need for directors, um, you know, when the world
48:16is collapsing.
48:16But yeah, I was going to be directing people now.
48:19Well, I mean, I'm just saying that, like, I think, um, I quite enjoy, uh, you know, working
48:29with, you know, young people and trying to inspire them.
48:33And, and I did a lot of that in my earlier, earlier in my career.
48:36So I think there's part of being a storyteller involved with being a teacher, you know, and,
48:41and speaking about, you know, whether it be our history or, or, or, or just telling stories
48:47that inspire.
48:48So I think, um, I think I'd, you know, like to be somebody that teaches, you know, yeah.
48:56And already, no, Mark's answer.
48:58It's the same, right?
48:59Man.
48:59You and me, bro.
49:02No, man, the thing is, uh, when you ask the question, I clearly don't know, I, uh, because
49:10when I entered as an actor, I was so focused to be an actor and that's it.
49:16And when I knew that in France, I cannot do that, I was like, what I can do?
49:21And I've been a director by, uh, uh, I didn't have any choice because I know that there is
49:27any, no director in France, give me the chance.
49:30I will give it by myself.
49:31And that's the way I, I started to work.
49:35And, and for me, I always said, I didn't have any other plan in my head when people
49:41say, yeah, but if that doesn't work, director or actor, what you're going to do?
49:44And I say, no, I won't just do that.
49:48And I don't have nothing.
49:49And, and for me, I cannot say, and when you say teacher in the same way for me, it's like,
49:55uh, when I, when I bring all those young, uh, adults in my film, the youngsters that in
50:00my film, I was like, okay, teaching them how to, maybe an actor, a theater, a professor,
50:07maybe it's how they, how to, to, to, yeah, to, to, to create actors and to say, yeah, this
50:14is possible.
50:15And for me, that is very important because, uh, because yeah, uh, if you are not a hundred
50:22percent on it, uh, I think in this, uh, in this industry, and if you are not, uh, son of
50:29on, uh, or your background, it's very difficult.
50:32You have to be like focused.
50:33And I was like, I don't know.
50:35I don't know.
50:36And when he starts speaking, I say, okay, I say the same thing.
50:40But we already, I taught before.
50:42I taught photography before at university level.
50:44And I guess we can't, it feels like it's, uh, there was, there's a lot in common, uh, the
50:50people who, who, in this group.
50:52People spike, spike, spike, like years of teaching.
50:55Yes.
50:55You know, I'm a, I'm an attorney professor at NYU graduate film school.
50:59I remember where, uh, I went, this is my 30th year, Ang Lee and I were classmates, but
51:05really, I don't want to answer, I don't want, I don't really answer hypothetical questions.
51:09You know, like what if, you know, if this is happening, I'm doing what I love.
51:17So I don't, I don't really have to, I don't, for me personally, like, well, well, this didn't
51:22happen or this didn't happen, but, but I think it happens.
51:26For me, stuff's happened for a reason.
51:28And, you know, family background.
51:32So I'm just blessed.
51:34I'm doing what I love.
51:35And, and the majority of people on this earth go to jobs.
51:38They hate.
51:40Your whole life.
51:41So when you can make a living doing what you love, you won.
51:45Well, I'm, I'm, I'm glad we could, you know, hear from all of you guys, uh, you know,
51:50about the wonderful, great work you all put out there.
51:52I, I, I hope people watch it and go, oh, see, there's wonderful, positive, uh, creative
51:58things to do in this world, not just destructive things.
52:02Thank you so much.
52:05Appreciate it.
Be the first to comment