- 6 weeks ago
Five filmmakers from Africa and the Middle East come together for the third annual Hollywood Reporter Roundtable at the Red Sea International Film Festival (RSIFF) in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia including, Cyril Aris, Jonas D'adesky, Mohammed Sheikh, Shahad Ameen and Zippy Nyaruri. The filmmakers reflect on a pivotal moment for regional cinema: from new funding models and festivals to the fight for authentic, culture-specific storytelling.
Category
✨
PeopleTranscript
00:00Sorry, there's a thunderstorm going on, a once in a year thunderstorm.
00:06So we're lucky, yeah. That might be an omen.
00:11Once a year has a storm, right? Yes, yes.
00:14You don't have, but now I'm so jealous it's raining and I'm not outside.
00:23Hello and welcome to the third annual Hollywood Reporter Roundtable.
00:27We're here at the Red Sea International Film Festival in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
00:32My name is Abid Rahman. I'm the international editor of THR.
00:35And I'm here with five incredible filmmakers from the region, from Africa and the Middle East.
00:40All five filmmakers have very kindly lent us their time to talk about their work
00:46and also about the industry, the festival itself, and also about the future of filmmaking in the region.
00:52I'll start with introductions. On my left is Zippy Nyaruri.
00:57Zippy is a Kenyan filmmaker and producer.
01:00And recently, she was recently recognised for her very vibrant documentary, Truck Mama,
01:05which has received awards from the International Documentary Festival in Amsterdam,
01:10AfroDocs, and also European Work in Progress in Cologne.
01:14Her works include Mama and Mary and Zebu and the Photo Fish,
01:18both of which have been screened at international film festivals,
01:21including in Durban, Aspen, and in Toronto.
01:24Zippy's film Truck Mama is competing here in the main competition at the Red Sea Film Festival.
01:30We also have Mohamed Shaikh. Mohamed is a self-taught Somali-American filmmaker from Minnesota.
01:36His storytelling is rooted in the lived experience and rich narratives of the Somali community.
01:41Yes, he also talks to universal themes. His short films include Forgotten Ones and Balbo,
01:47and has screened internationally and gained recognition.
01:50His current debut feature film, Arnie, is currently playing in the main competition in the Red Sea Film Festival as well.
02:00So then we have Jonas Deitsky. Jonas is a Belgian Rwanda filmmaker from Brussels.
02:06His first film, Nuit Blanche, was selected for several festivals.
02:09His third feature film, Three Kids, also played in Toronto and in Berlin.
02:13For his current film, Kiwakuba and the Remember, which is also a Rwandan set film,
02:19is currently playing in the festival favourite section of the Red Sea International Film Festival.
02:23And then we have Cyril Aris. Cyril is a Lebanese filmmaker and screenwriter,
02:29who is a member of the Academy of Motion Picture and Arts and Sciences.
02:35His 2023 documentary feature, Dancing on the Edge of a Volcano, premiered in the main competition at Carlo Viveri,
02:43where it received a special jury mention.
02:47He holds an MFA for Columbia University, and he is also an editor.
02:52He has credits, including the 2001 film Costa Brava Lebanon by Mounia Akel.
02:58Akel also stars in his debut feature, A Sad and Beautiful World, that premiered in Venice this year.
03:04And it's also competing in the main competition at the Red Sea Film Festival.
03:09It is also Lebanon's official submission for the 2026 Academy Awards.
03:15And last but not least, to my right, we have Shahad Amin.
03:19Shahad is an award-winning writer and director from right here in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
03:25Her short films include Leila's Window, which won the best film of the Saudi Film Festival,
03:29and Iron Mermaid, which screened at major festivals including Toronto and Stockholm.
03:33Her debut feature scales, premiered in Venice, and won the Verona Film Club Award.
03:37And the film was also Saudi Arabia's official submission for the 2021 Academy Awards.
03:42Her latest film, Hijra, had its world premiere in Venice this year to great acclaim.
03:47And she has also been selected as Saudi Arabia's official submission for the 2026 Academy Awards.
03:55The film is also playing in the main competition at the Red Sea Film Festival this year.
04:00So now we'll come on to the main discussion.
04:02We'll talk a little bit about the industry.
04:05So the first question is, for those of you working within or closely within the MENA region,
04:11how would you describe the current moment for filmmaking here?
04:14What to you feels exciting and what to you feels still challenging?
04:18Yeah.
04:19I think this year particularly is an extremely strong year in Arab cinema.
04:24And you can see the films coming out of Tunisia, Morocco, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Palestine.
04:33Palestine has multiple films this year.
04:36And we feel that there's some kind of a renaissance in the sense of international audiences are very curious about hearing from local filmmakers themselves.
04:47I think for decades, stories have been told on our behalf through the filter of mainstream media and Western media, you know, more particularly.
04:58And you can see how distorted this lens is.
05:01And I feel now that with all the recent events and the turmoil happening in the region,
05:07there is some curiosity about hearing our point of view.
05:10And this is finding great resonance.
05:12And, you know, festivals like the Red Sea Film Festival is really pushing the boundaries in getting our stories out there.
05:19So it feels very refreshing and it feels like perfect timing to be working in the MENA region for our cinema.
05:26Would you would you say this? Do you think politics is the main driver of this trend or?
05:31Well, you know, when you look at our films, I think there's always a political undertone.
05:37Well, you know, either it's at the forefront or it's in the background.
05:42But that's that's a result of politics being very present and overwhelmingly seeping through our art.
05:49Because I think we are a reflection of the political events happening around us.
05:54Zipi, do you feel like there's a for African films, do you think there's a driving force behind why people are more interested in these stories or?
06:02Yes.
06:03The reason like out top, for example, for East Africa, we are the last years, a lot of documentaries, for example, are coming out of it.
06:15And it's quite exciting because we now have a first funding that comes from Kenya.
06:24It's called DocuBox and they started by funding development for documentaries and they did not stop there.
06:32They tried to create an ecosystem and make sure that these films get to be seen.
06:39And also screen within Kenya and then move a little bit to East Africa and collaborate with others.
06:46And that has brought in audiences, other filmmakers get inspired.
06:51And just having that start and fun that believes in our project has helped a lot.
07:00And I'm very excited here because there's some Kenya films, Uganda, they're pitching, others are releasing.
07:08And I think it's a really exciting time.
07:11And also to be here at Red Sea for them is also like a new market, a new audience.
07:18And I'm really looking forward to what's coming.
07:21I think there's a good thing going on.
07:24Would you would you guys say that the streamers have helped this kind of spread the message of films from this region?
07:30Or is that like a secondary aspect of this?
07:35I think Sarah really said it all.
07:41It's about time that we talk about ourselves.
07:44I mean Saudi is for me the most exciting place to make films right now.
07:50Because everything we make is new.
07:53It's authentic.
07:54We are talking about ourselves for years.
07:57Our narrative have been told through other eyes.
08:00Why?
08:01It's us who get to tell our stories.
08:03It's us who get to share with the world how we want to share ourselves.
08:07And I'm really glad that Arab films are getting the attention they deserve.
08:14To be honest, I don't think it's through streamers.
08:18I'll be very honest.
08:19Because for streamers, I feel every film is the same from every country.
08:24It doesn't represent certain cultures.
08:26On the contrary, festivals, when they pick films, it is about the authentic voices of the people.
08:33But no, with streamers, they want us all to be the same people.
08:37They want the standard to be the same.
08:40It's not as much auteur as when a festival picks your film.
08:45When I'm sure everyone's...
08:48You're talking for yourself.
08:49Yeah.
08:50And for Arabs, it's been such a long time that our narrative has been hijacked.
08:57And the Red Sea Film Festival is essential in promoting Arab stories, in promoting Saudi stories, in promoting African stories.
09:07I mean, we've been very thankful to have this support because normally we wouldn't, you know.
09:11Of course, there was places in the region, Dubai Film Festival, Doha, whom supported some of my first short films.
09:19But now we have it on a bigger level, and I hope this support continues.
09:23So, for example, in my film, the Red Sea is not just screening my film, but they're also our partners.
09:30They gave us...
09:32The Red Sea Film Fund gave us a big portion of our budget.
09:36The Saudi Film Commission gave me a major, major budget.
09:41Almost all of my budget came from the Saudi Film Commission through their initiative, though.
09:46Also, Film Al-Ula gave me the budget.
09:49They gave me not just financial support, but they gave me logistical support as well.
09:54And also, Niyom gave me not just financial support and logistical support.
09:59And it's raw in the eastern province.
10:01And what I want to say about all these institutions is those institutions does not just give support for Saudi filmmakers.
10:08They give support for anyone who is planning to shoot a film in Saudi Arabia.
10:13So, they give the logistical support as well.
10:16I was so thankful when I shot In Al-Ula and Niyom for the team, because they are wonderful filmmakers as well,
10:22who will believe in your story as much as you believe in it.
10:25So, yes, it's a very exciting time to be an Arab filmmaker.
10:30It's a very exciting time.
10:32It's about time.
10:33We get to share our stories.
10:34Yeah.
10:35I can say something about the streamers, because you mentioned something quite interesting,
10:38that streamers are trying to format everyone, all the Arabs, to be kind of the same.
10:43And I kind of agree with that.
10:44I do remember from some of the conversations for a specific project that I was trying to pitch to a streamer,
10:52there was always this question of, but can you add an Egyptian actor and a Saudi actor,
10:58someone known in the region for pan-Arab appeal?
11:01So, you know, in a way they're pushing for a lack of culture specificity to gain the Arab audience.
11:10And that's always a question of, you know, how much will you sacrifice the specificity of your culture for a mass appeal?
11:19So, I think there's a bit of a disconnect between what the streamer still expects from Arab filmmakers
11:24versus what, you know, the films we actually make.
11:26So, as Ashad was saying, thanks to the festivals and this, you know, recognition we're getting,
11:33we are, you know, telling our very culture specific stories with universal appeal, of course,
11:37but without abiding to a specific format that would appeal to, you know, mainstream audiences.
11:44I'll just add upon that is that what I've seen so far from streamers is that they try to westernize Arab culture,
11:53which is really upsetting. So, it does not come from, I feel, you know, you see Arabic names,
11:58like you see the director is Arab, the writer is Arab, but you don't feel the specificity of the culture, as Sarah said.
12:05And you feel that they, it's like just trying to say, oh, look how the Arab world is westernized now.
12:12Right. Okay. So, that's, that's, that's not necessarily mandatory.
12:16We're going to get in a lot of trouble.
12:18Well, that's, that's the notes to give you, or is it kind of like, oh, how much of that is that kind of outward pressure?
12:25Or is it, or is it just suggestion?
12:27Oh, no, no, no, no. I think it's, it's more of a...
12:29It's unsaid, it's kind of like...
12:31Yeah, well, so, okay, so, you know, you have Arab platforms that, that are doing Arab content,
12:36but the, I'm referring more to the international platforms that are trying to find their crowd in the Middle East,
12:42or are trying to do something that appeals to all the Arabs, all at once, by just, you know, finding the perfect formula,
12:49you know, either leveraging on an IP that's been proven, so you're trying to make a remake of something that's, that's been already proven,
12:54or by collecting these superstars from various countries, so you can appeal to all of the countries at, at the same time.
13:01So I think there's a bit of a, there's still a bit of a lack of, of understanding of the region, but, you know,
13:06hopefully in, in the future, this, the, this gets resolved, and, and, you know, we get to, to do more specific stories.
13:13Yeah. So we're at the festival right now, which is obviously a very broad festival.
13:17It's very, it's a huge umbrella of different types of films from different parts of the world, in this region, sorry.
13:24And I feel like there's a lot of voices represented, a lot of narratives being told.
13:29But in terms of like just cinema in your individual countries, are there, are there stories and voices that are not being told of like,
13:36they're not being, they're being overlooked. And if they are, if there are, what are those voices?
13:40Um, I remember how would you go?
13:42Well, for me to ask your, your first question about, um, how does people feel about filmmaking in general in this,
13:48I mean, a region in Africa? Um, obviously we're telling the stories of political stories because that's the reality in which people live in.
13:58But at the same time, there is like, uh, the opposite side of the coin where in this festival,
14:03you look at the, the roster of the films, you have the African folktale films.
14:07For example, my film, there's nothing politics about it. It's about people finding each other.
14:12It's a regular drama where, um, um, these young people are actually searching for something
14:17without having to deal with all of these, um, political turmoil that's going on around us.
14:23And for me, a film can be that also, uh, where we have, uh, in, in Red Sea, for example,
14:28the focus is also funding those type of films. And when this, uh, for example, like your film, um, Track Mama,
14:37uh, Mami Wata, you know, like all of these African films that are talking about African mythical and folktales
14:43are also being funded by the Red Sea Labs, Red Sea Fund. They're also in the festival here.
14:48So there's, uh, also that up here where people are not only like focusing on, uh, certain, they're not expecting
14:54on certain type of films, but they're also looking at other films that are exploring, uh, culture in a different ways.
15:01Um, and I'm really happy that, uh, Red Sea is also doing that.
15:05Um, with the streaming, uh, question, that one for me, uh, filmmaking is an event as a filmmaker.
15:11And I mean, 100% sure everybody can agree. When you make a film, you, it's tiring process.
15:17It's sometimes, um, it takes 10 years to make a documentary.
15:20So when you finish it, just to put it on everybody's laptop, I don't, I don't think it justifies it.
15:26I don't think it's fair. I think it should be an event where people actually show up, um, for making, um,
15:31used to be an event where you dress up and you go to theater experience.
15:35Um, so for me, um, that's where I kind of look at it. And with my film, we went to Djibouti to show it.
15:42And a young people who have never seen film showed up and the theaters were full to the point where I have to tell people we're sorry.
15:49There's no more seats left. And for me, that's the whole point, uh, of making a film.
15:54Yeah.
15:55Yeah.
15:56It's a great answer. Um, Jones, do you have any feeling on the, on the whole streamer question?
16:02Yeah. About this, I don't know, but, uh, um, about the highlights of, of, uh, African and Asian films.
16:08I think it's, uh, important to say that it's difficult to shoot films in general.
16:13Uh, for example, for me in Africa, in Rwanda, uh, my, my Rwandan producer says to me, uh, your film, it's the biggest, uh, Rwandan films, uh, ever.
16:25Uh, ever. And it was not a big, big budget. So I was, oh, okay. And it's just because, uh, there is no, there is no, there is no, there is a new, uh, Rwanda fund.
16:37Uh, but it's, uh, just, uh, from two years ago, I think. And it's, it's new. And for, for the other sides, it's difficult to, to have supports and for the young directors to, to, to shoot films.
16:50And, uh, uh, Red Sea, it's really important for that. I, I, I, I received the, the, the, the, the fund of Red Sea, there, there is the lab, there is the festival.
16:59And I think it's, it's, uh, really, really important to add this highlight.
17:03Yeah.
17:04Um, special, special, special, special, uh, the focus of, uh, of this, uh, it's a, it's a, it's a chance and, and it, it's a necessity.
17:13Right.
17:14Actually, there's a question about, um, the way that people consume.
17:18I don't want to use the word comic films, TV, or I almost used the word content then, but, um, sorry, apologies.
17:25Um, but the way that people receive or, uh, uh, watch things now, there seems to be like a global, um, global pressure on our house cinema, especially in the West and maybe a little bit in Asia as well.
17:38Um, but I feel like here it might actually become like, it, it has a chance to develop.
17:44Because I know in, in Riyadh that they own their first art house cinema, uh, first one ever recently.
17:51Um, I feel like this festival in particular, there's lots of beautiful art house dramas and films that, do you feel like there is a chance for art house cinema in this region?
18:01Or is, is it something that's maybe a little bit sort of, uh, inflated by having the Red Sea film first of all?
18:06Or is it, is there a chance?
18:08Um, you know, in the United States and in Europe, the format is already set.
18:14Yeah.
18:15This is what works.
18:16In the Arab region, there was a lot of influence of a set format, let's say from Egyptian cinema for, for a very long time.
18:24But over the past, maybe 20 years, 15 years, authentic Arab voices starting, starting to get more appeared.
18:32And, uh, we see increase in Arab films and festivals.
18:36And, uh, why was I saying that Saudi Arabia is very exciting, most exciting place to make cinema?
18:43It's, there's no standard.
18:44There's no formula that already works and, and producers forces you to make it.
18:49They say, oh, this is the formula that works.
18:51This is what we want to do.
18:52That's how the script should goes.
18:54There isn't that.
18:55There isn't that.
18:56There's a chance to make mistakes.
18:58There's a, there's a chance for every voice to tell the story they want to tell.
19:02And what's more incredible is the backers are already, are ready to take a chance.
19:08When, when it's very new, we started making films.
19:11The first film that came out of Saudi Arabia, if I'm not mistaking, was in 2012, Wajda by Haifa al-Mansur.
19:19And, and then, so can you imagine that?
19:22It's, the arena is completely new.
19:24Um, we're, we're making it up as we go along.
19:28So everyone has the right to, and, and, and I'm, I'm really happy that financers are as courageous as filmmakers.
19:35They're seeing the different scripts that they, that's, that are arriving their way.
19:40And they, they understand that we cannot make copy paste films of the American format or the Egyptian format.
19:47If we want to establish a Saudi cinema that carry, that carries authentic voice, we need to look for it.
19:53And it's really nice that every filmmaker has the right to be authentic and they have the right to explore.
20:00You know, I was saying people always ask me, you know, female empowerment.
20:04And this is incredible. There's a lot of female filmmakers in Saudi.
20:07Female filmmakers in Saudi are much more than male filmmakers in Saudi.
20:11And from what I, from what I know, I don't know statistic.
20:16In the Arab world, female filmmakers are, are huge.
20:19Yeah.
20:20You see them in festivals all around.
20:22You see their films making, making the rounds in festival.
20:25So, and that's, that's because I feel that they always have a different voice, a different format than the normal format that we're used to.
20:33Right.
20:34And in the Arab world, we're willing to back that because we don't have a set format that works.
20:39But this is where I feel, for example, streamers are trying to push that set format, but festivals are not.
20:45And that's what I'm excited about.
20:47Right.
20:48Do you feel the same?
20:49Do you feel that there's a, there's a lack of maybe a formal structure in African cinema as well?
20:54Or is it still a bit more free and liberating?
20:58Yes.
20:59I wanted to say that it's very similar.
21:01We have a freedom to some extent, you know.
21:04I know when we start to develop, for example, in documentary, because those are the ones that have come a lot from East Africa.
21:13You start applying for funds and you try to, to, to try to format in a certain way.
21:21But in the end, we try to, we still have the liberty, for example.
21:28So that's why like funds like, like Red Sea, Doki Box, they do not limit you.
21:37They just give you funds.
21:39They understand you have your voice and they don't try to make you like fit in this box.
21:45And that freedom is very important to be raised.
21:47And the support to continue the way.
21:51And that has been helpful for all the other films.
21:54So at the start, you know, you're looking for funds here and there, but these two funds, I think for me, are very important too.
22:02Let us exercise our freedom.
22:04Yeah.
22:05To, to, to, you know, add to, to this, because I think there's a worldwide friction between the six second attention span of TikTok, Instagram, with people just swiping and consuming content.
22:17Yeah.
22:18Which, which, which, which, which are, you know, you know, you know, which are the, the words you were avoiding, but, but it is, you know, on the phone, it's like, we need more and more and more and more and stimulus and stimulus, you know, and the more independent art house cinema, that is more observational, meditative or, you know, you know, whatever.
22:36But I think that's, that's a worldwide phenomenon.
22:39And I think that, like, um, Shad was saying, in, in Europe, there is, for example, a well established audience for this kind of cinema, that is, you know, and there's much more of an established infrastructure to finance the, these films and fund them and finding their audience.
22:56Uh, in the, in the, in the Arab world, like, like, like she was saying, I think we, we suffer from the same phenomenon of, you know, sometimes we feel that there might not be a particular audience for, for these kinds of films.
23:09But also, you know, when you attend the, the, the, the Red Sea Film Festival, you see that the audience for these types of films are all young people.
23:16And it's an extremely young audience that, that is hungry for just discovering all kinds of cinemas and having this, you know, curiosity to, to just see what's out there.
23:27And, uh, I think it does feed into this, uh, you know, your question of, it is a very interesting time to make these kinds of films and expose them in this region because there seems to be an audience receptive to this kind of cinema that is being formed, uh, as opposed to being completely established in, in the West.
23:47I mean, we've talked a lot about freedom and the, you know, the, the feeling you feel to, to make the films, the stories you want to tell.
23:53But also, I mean, there is an element of, obviously every country is different, but there are elements in certain countries where you have issues with censorship.
24:02You have issues with what stories you can't touch, you know, the subjects you can't talk about.
24:07Is there specific examples in the, in your, in your countries that you felt a little bit constrained?
24:12And is that something that's, how, how does that affect you as a filmmaker?
24:16Uh, I can talk about Lebanon specifically.
24:18So when you write a script, you do have to submit it to censorship in order to, uh, get the permit to shoot.
24:24Yeah.
24:24Uh, they tend in Lebanon specifically, which is kind of a liberal country.
24:28Yeah.
24:29Uh, they tend not to interfere so much with the content.
24:32They, they have, uh, you know, a few red flags, which is if you attack a specific religion, you know,
24:39being a very sectarian country with such history of, uh, uh, uh, sectarian, um, fights.
24:49So yeah, if, if you're directly insulting a religion, it tends to be like, let's avoid that.
24:55Or if you're personally attacking, uh, a specific political leader, uh, that tends to be a red flag.
25:02But other than that, you can really do whatever you want.
25:05And censorship, I think, if you look at Iranian cinema, for example, that has been under a heavy censorship for over four decades,
25:12it does, uh, push your creativity and your subtlety.
25:16And really, I think that when you look at, at the works of Kerasami, for example,
25:21they look so simple on the surface at face value, but they're profoundly critical of the Iranian society.
25:26Uh, and this, this has, you know, trickled down all the way to Farhadi, Panahi, you know, Panahi's latest film is a bit more aggressive than, than, than his previous ones.
25:36But, uh, it tends to, uh, push your creativity to try to get the message through more sort of ways, uh, undertones and, you know,
25:47things that are a little more under, uh, under the table that are understood, but that can pass censorship without unnecessarily being noticed.
25:54So, Jonas, your films have dealt with the Iran and genocide.
25:57Have you felt any kind of, I don't want to use the word pressure, but like any kind of, um, like responsibility about how you present,
26:06that, that, so incredibly tragic incident.
26:09I mean, is there an added responsibility that you feel like how I present this or is that unsaid?
26:15No, no, exactly.
26:16Uh, for, for example, I have, in my scene, there is a scene where I, I, I show a, uh, commemoration ceremony.
26:24And, um, uh, I, I wanted to shoot in, in the exact place where I saw this ceremony and, and it's the place where, what talk about my, my film.
26:35Um, and, um, uh, at, at the difference of, uh, the real ceremony, uh, uh, I write, uh, um, a dance scene.
26:45So there, there, there, there, there was dancer in my screenplay and, uh, they, they, they said to me, it's not possible
26:53because, um, um, ceremony for genocide is just, um, just people talks, uh, people sing, sing, sing, but, uh, dance, it's like, uh, entertainment.
27:06And so it's not the same way.
27:10And, uh, the, the, the, it, it was a long process, um, during, I explained, okay, it's not a simple dance.
27:17It's a dance who represents a genocide scene and, and the story of the genocide, because in the film, this dance, it's, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, a dance, uh, between, uh, on one side, genocider.
27:30And on the other side, the victims and, and, and it's a confrontation.
27:36And at the end, um, they are together and they rebuild, uh, the, the country.
27:42It's, it's like, uh, a metaphor.
27:44I don't know.
27:45Yeah.
27:45But you can say that in English.
27:46And, and, and, and so, uh, when, when they understand that, uh, finally, uh, it's, okay, you can, you can shoot there because we understand it's not entertainment.
27:58It's just symbolic and, and, and, and so it was, uh, for, for several places when I shoot, it was a long dialogue, uh, when I need, uh, the authorization of, uh, the, the district authority, but, uh, to the, the, the, the religious authority.
28:15And so, so sometimes, uh, uh, the, the, uh, just the, the day before I shoot, I don't know if it was possible and, and, and the day, okay, we can.
28:26And, uh, uh, it's the same way we shoot in, in a prison and, uh, uh, uh, they, they say to, to us, uh, yeah, it's complicated because, uh, uh, uh, last time there is a documentary director who shoot there.
28:40And after with the images, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he make a film with a critic of the, of the, the government.
28:49And, and, and so we explain it's different.
28:53It's a, it's a, it's a fiction film.
28:54You can, you can see the, the, the, the screenplay and yeah, it was a, uh, long, long discussion.
29:00But what helps me is that, uh, we have, uh, a, a Rwandan team, a Rwandan producer.
29:06Me, I am Belgian, but Rwandan too.
29:09Uh, we explain, uh, a lot.
29:12And so it's possible, but, uh, it's, it's like you said, it's, uh, just, uh, you, you have to, to find a way to, to, to tell your story.
29:21Uh, uh, and, and if not, it's not possible.
29:26But I, I think it's a creativity tooth.
29:28Yeah.
29:29Jihad, have you, have you felt any kind of restrictions?
29:34Um, of course we have, uh, to submit, uh, to the film commission.
29:38They read the script and, uh, you have to get a permit before you start shooting.
29:43But, um, I will speak about myself personally.
29:47Okay.
29:48For me, you know, I always say that I'm not a lawyer.
29:52I'm not trying to tell anything political.
29:56I'm not trying to pinpoint something that I dislike about the society.
30:02I'm not trying to insert my own ideals into a film.
30:06I think my job as a storyteller, at least the way I see it for myself, is I tell a human story.
30:14And sometimes people will tell me, you don't think this is a sensitive subject?
30:18I say no, because I will never use it to push buttons.
30:23I will never use it to be outrageous.
30:26If I do that, then I'm a cheap filmmaker.
30:30I feel I want to do it to tell the human story.
30:32And if it does have a context where it's a little bit sensitive, I will treat it with, poetically.
30:39I will treat it with sensitivity as much I can.
30:42Because for me, my job as a screenwriter and as a filmmaker is to not insert my own ideas and my own feelings into the script,
30:56but build the world of the script.
31:00Build the story world.
31:01And as much as I can, I try to let the characters lead and I follow, you know.
31:08And if it happens to be that the characters go to a place that is a bit controversial, I deal with it with humanity, with sensitivity.
31:17And I hope that this comes across, no matter how sensitive the subject is.
31:22And then you hope for the best, you know.
31:24But, you know, as an Arab, to be honest, the West speak a lot of freedom of speech.
31:30But do they really have it?
31:32Does anyone have freedom of speech?
31:35Because that's why freedom of speech is so valuable.
31:38Because it's not free.
31:40Because if freedom of speech is, if speech is really free, then it's not valuable anymore.
31:50It's not bravery to speak up anymore.
31:52So I think it's always a kind of catch-22.
31:56If you speak up something that is controversial, you will suffer the consequences.
32:01But that's why you will be called brave, you know, for tackling the issue.
32:05So I think as humans, we're all dealing with what we can say, even on a personal level.
32:11You say, I'm talking to this person.
32:13You think to yourself, I want to say something.
32:15But do I want to offend the person in front of me?
32:17So in the Arab world, for example, we have things that we don't do.
32:22We do not, and I'm pretty sure in Africa as well, we're not rude to our elders, for example.
32:27That's something we don't do.
32:28That's something we don't want to do.
32:30We're not rude to the head of the tribe or the matriarch of the family or the patriarch of the family.
32:35And that doesn't go for the smaller family.
32:38That goes for the bigger family as well.
32:39And it's part of who we are, and we like it.
32:42And we don't want to change that about ourselves.
32:44So it's always about being sensitive to your own culture as well and the way you are raised.
32:49And of course, sometimes you'll tackle issues.
32:51But I will hope that people will see the heart of what I'm trying to say rather than, you know,
32:58make it seem as if I'm trying to be outrageous because that's not who I am.
33:02But I think on that topic of freedom of speech, I think the current generation,
33:08specifically in the U.S., in the West, but specifically in the U.S.,
33:12I think has been disillusioned, especially on college campuses and things like that.
33:17I think the myth of freedom of speech and the condescending attitude that the West has had
33:24towards the rest of the world when it comes to freedom of speech has been quite demystified in recent years.
33:30And we realize that, you know, there is freedom of speech, and there is freedom of speech as long as we like it.
33:37So we're speaking as well.
33:38But I like this statement, like freedom is a fight.
33:42Exactly.
33:43Because you are sacrificing things out of saying freedom.
33:48So it's not something that comes free.
33:50No, it will always be a fight.
33:52Otherwise, why is it valuable?
33:54True.
33:54So there's always something that you're fighting for.
33:59Yeah, when it comes to censorship, I agree with what he said.
34:02For example, when you come to Africa or if you come into a country like Somali or Djibouti,
34:07they haven't done this process before.
34:09They don't have the film commission that perceives the script and reviews it.
34:13So it's all about communication and making people understand.
34:16This is the story that I'm trying to tell, and this is the way I wanted to tell it.
34:21And sometimes they're okay.
34:22It's just all about collaboration with the local people, the local government, and explain yourself.
34:29Because they don't have a due process where they take the script, it goes here, somebody reads it,
34:34they mark all the pages and stuff.
34:37So it's all about just coming into communication with them and being transparent and honest with them
34:43in what you're trying to do.
34:45And I think there shouldn't be no problem.
34:48Like explaining a dance the way you explain it to them, and then they'll be okay with that.
34:53Sorry, there's a thunderstorm going on.
34:59Once in a year, thunderstorms.
35:00So we're lucky.
35:02That might be an omen.
35:06Is it once a year has a storm, right?
35:08Yes, we don't have.
35:09So now the city will drown.
35:11But now I'm so jealous, it's raining and I'm not outside.
35:13Okay.
35:14So we'll talk a little bit about the Red Sea Festival itself.
35:18It's in its fifth year this year.
35:21This is my first experience of it.
35:23I have to say I'm very impressed.
35:26I'm hard to impress.
35:28But for you as filmmakers, obviously very disparate filmmakers from different countries
35:34and different experiences and different life stories,
35:37for you at this festival, what would you say were the strengths of the festival,
35:42for you specifically, and then where could it be better, I guess?
35:46What are the gaps?
35:48What could it be better at?
35:50So let's start with Jonas.
35:51Could you talk a little bit about your experience with the festival?
35:54Yeah, I just arrived yesterday, Pierre.
35:58But I can just say that yesterday I went to the Souk market where there is all the festivals,
36:09or almost because there is this place and other sites.
36:12And I was thinking, wow, it's really beautiful, beautiful place.
36:20And it's really kind to have all people there in this place, all the screenings.
36:27And it's like a village, you know, and a beautiful one.
36:32So I was really impressed by that.
36:34But when I came from the airport, I said to me, okay, it's just, there is no publicity about the festival
36:45or in the airport, on the road, and it's a long road.
36:49And yeah, I was just disappointed by that, because it seems it's a big festival.
36:57Yeah, there is a big resonance, international resonance, and so press and so on.
37:05So maybe in the city, it's maybe possible to have bigger publicity, I don't know,
37:13to bring people who don't know about cinema to see these films.
37:18Because I think it's right to have all these films here at the same time.
37:25Would you say, I mean, that you've probably been every single one, right?
37:29No, actually, I've been at the first edition of Red Sea, and this one, this was my second time.
37:35And I do remember the first one, you know, again, this is a country that didn't have movie theaters
37:39just a few years ago, and you can correct me if I'm wrong.
37:43So the movie-going experience is quite new.
37:45And I do remember in the first edition, the attendance was quite low as audience.
37:52And, you know, you had, like, industry people watching films,
37:54but the public wasn't really there at the first edition.
37:57Now, at the fifth edition, I haven't been able to get a ticket to a single screening.
38:03Yes.
38:03It's all sold out constantly, all the time, during the whole day.
38:07And it's no longer just industry people.
38:10And, again, it's a lot of local Saudi audiences.
38:14So I think, you know, not having open marketing on the street
38:20is not impacting the movie-going experience,
38:22because, really, all the screenings are constantly sold out,
38:26and there's a lot of films that are playing.
38:27So that's quite nice.
38:30And it shows a bit the difference in how quickly the festival is growing
38:34since the first edition.
38:35Yeah, so as someone from Lebanon, I mean, having a festival of this size in the region,
38:42is that very important for you?
38:43Because I'm kind of impressed by the kind of scale, actually, in my first time being here.
38:50Is that something very important to have something as big as the Red Sea in this region?
38:56Absolutely.
38:56Because I think you can see that it's regrouping, you know, a lot of the Arab industry,
39:02but also it's bringing a lot of foreign press.
39:05Yeah.
39:06You know, most of the trades are here.
39:08Yeah.
39:09And there's a lot of spotlight on Arab and African cinema, which is, you know, very much needed.
39:15Yeah.
39:16So, yeah, it is very important in that sense.
39:18Yeah.
39:18I want to ask something about the, actually, the few words I know in numbers is Hamza, which is five, no?
39:26So I think that's a good sign.
39:29And I was really impressed that there's a young audience coming to cinema.
39:35That gives us hope that there's a generation that is going to go to theatre,
39:40and they're starting now and going into it.
39:43And I think that's, I don't, probably how Red Sea attracted these audiences, audiences to come.
39:50That was so encouraging to see them at the cultural centre, just chilling and waiting for the next ticket
39:57and just filling up the cinemas for filmmakers.
40:01I think that's a great thing to see.
40:05So it gives you hope.
40:06But also with the wider festival, I mean, they have the labs, they have the foundation and the funds and all the rest of it.
40:13How have you interacted with that?
40:14Has it been an easy process?
40:16Has it been, is it convoluted?
40:18I mean, could you explain a little bit about that?
40:20For me, it's amazing.
40:21The ecosystem, you know, like to have all of it, you know.
40:25So with development, there's a home for you at Red Sea.
40:28If you're at production, there's a home for you at Red Sea.
40:30If you're, you know, and then also for the release, that is, that's the best home you can have for your film.
40:38Okay.
40:38And that's incredible.
40:39Is there a part for, I mean, if they, if they, if they work with you on the labs and the develop, the development aspect of funding,
40:47is it like, oh, you will get to show your film at the festival or is it still?
40:51I don't think it's necessarily so, but it's just important that, that the platform is there for whatever phase of production is.
41:00And so if you get developments, they give you a stepping stone to start your project.
41:07And if you are developing the project itself, there's the lab.
41:13And whatever part you are, you know that they have, the support is there.
41:18And that's, you know, you can, me coming from Africa, I can already look at Red Sea for production or for development.
41:25Or if I've finished, then I hope that it will be scrappy as well.
41:30To answer your question directly, the, it's a completely different institution, the festival and the, and the lab.
41:37It's a bit more, the, similar to the, to the Sundance Institute.
41:41It has nothing to do with the Sundance Festival and taking part of the Sundance Institute does not mean in any way that, that you're going to play in the Sundance Festival.
41:49And not taking part of the Institute, you know, doesn't mean that you cannot take part.
41:53So they're a completely independent organization, which shows you also the scope and the extent of the, of the, of this institution overall.
42:02Have you, have you interacted with the, the, the foundation and the labs and?
42:09No, it's my, just the, the competition section and the festival.
42:14But for me, were you keen on like looking into this?
42:16Oh, absolutely.
42:17I, I, I, we were talking in the, in the car coming here and we were talking about, I didn't know all of these opportunities actually existed before, before I got here.
42:24But right now I'm actually overwhelmed.
42:26There's just so many, just last night we were joking.
42:28We were like, this is a city.
42:30Like there's so many things happening.
42:32And when you download the app and you look at the app, they're like, this guy is here.
42:36Oh, and then that guy's over there.
42:38And, um, I mean, they say the, uh, I think we're saying that there's more celebrities here than the, and then the Oscars on the opening night.
42:47But I was, people usually talk about that aspect of the festival, but they don't talk about the fact that the hospitality aspect of it.
42:54For me, coming from the USA, the moment where I landed to today, I've been taken care of.
43:00Like there's BMWs, like taking me to places and I'm like, wow, let me record this.
43:06I agreed to, yeah.
43:06So I just felt so like celebrated and, um, and my friend, the plane and people showing up to see the films.
43:15Um, and not necessarily, there's no dull day where I'm like, there's nothing happening.
43:19There's always something happening.
43:20Like, I'm like going to all the talks.
43:23I'm like, I don't even have time to go to the places that I want because there's things happening simultaneously.
43:28So for me, um, I, I tell my team and the actors, I'm full right now.
43:34I cannot wait to go back and I make another movie right now and, and bring it here because that's how, uh, how amazing it is so far.
43:42Yeah.
43:43Jonas, have you, have you dealt with the, the lab, the, the other side of the festival or the foundation?
43:49Yeah, the, the foundation, yes, because, uh, I have the phone for my actual film and, uh, the, the lab, uh, yeah, they, they, they contact us by emails and so on, uh, for my future project.
44:01And I, I had, uh, an audition, uh, for the lab, but, uh, yeah, I don't, I don't have it finally, but in the process, uh, they are, they are, uh, uh, uh, yeah, really present, uh, with you, uh, because they, they, they know,
44:19you and they follow you and so it's, uh, yeah, because when I had the, the audition, uh, I, uh, I, I, I don't know what, what is it.
44:28And it's my pleasure.
44:29Oh yeah.
44:29Uh, we send it, uh, because we have an email and so the process continued and yeah, I, I think it's, uh, yeah, it's really good.
44:38It's like the hospitality because they, they know you, they follow, they follow, they follow you and yeah, it's, it's great.
44:47Yeah.
44:47So Shahada, as a local girl, you're obviously going to be very, very, very positive, obviously.
44:52But of course, is there aspects that, that could be better?
44:55I mean, let's look for the, what could be better?
44:57No, I would never say anything.
44:59No, everything is, I don't attend every year.
45:02I also attended the first edition and maybe the edition that took place in the, in the Ritz, in the hotel.
45:09And it's the first year I attend, uh, when they built the new, the new building and when they built the new souk.
45:16So I'm very surprised.
45:18First of all, I'm in love with this building.
45:21This is the most, I mean, better cinema.
45:23It's so gorgeous.
45:24I'm so in love with it.
45:25I keep looking at the wood they use.
45:28It's really, they, they, they've handled it so perfectly and I know they spend so much time.
45:32And they actually, the whole spot near the, near the better cinema, it's all been renovated.
45:38And I love that it takes place in the old town.
45:40It's just the old town is the most beautiful part in Jeddah.
45:44So I'm very excited about that.
45:45And my friend is, um, my friend is the head of souk.
45:49So I'm congratulating her about, you know, the amazing work she's been doing.
45:53And when I entered, cause the last time I went, when the first edition, if you remember, it was so small.
45:59It was like a building, makeshift building.
46:01So I was really shocked when I entered the souk.
46:04It's, it's, it's a festival.
46:05It's a full fledged festival going on and very proud that it's happening in my city.
46:10Very proud of all the organizers, everyone who's working with the Red Sea.
46:14Seriously, they've done a fantastic job.
46:16They deserve all the praise.
46:18Very thankful for the film commission.
46:20Very thankful for the ministry of culture.
46:23They've really, they've really come through for us as a Saudi filmmakers and as Arab filmmakers.
46:28And also they're coming through for the entire region, Africa and, and Minna.
46:33And it's funny.
46:34Cyril was saying about the lack of audiences in the first few years.
46:37And the organizers were telling it was because people were afraid.
46:41They thought it was only for industry professional.
46:44Like you have to have the badge and, you know, they thought they couldn't enter.
46:48And then they made like, they advertised it now very well that they made sure that the people of Jeddah know that it's, no, the festival is for the public.
46:57And you can see that.
46:58And, and I was very happy with my screening because I screened my film twice now.
47:02It's our era premiere and Saudi premiere.
47:05And it was full house.
47:06It was sold out.
47:07The three screenings of my film are sold out.
47:10And I didn't have high hopes, to be honest, for audiences to like the film.
47:15We screened in Venice and people loved it.
47:18It was fantastic screening.
47:19But, you know, when you're screening for a Western audience, they're always impressed by seeing an outsider from the, it's easier to convince than, it's easier to convince than your own audiences.
47:32Yes, of course.
47:33So that concludes our third annual THR Roundtable at the Red Sea Film Festival.
47:39I just want to take this opportunity to thank our five filmmakers for taking part.
47:43That's Zippy, Mohamed, and Jonas, Cyril, and Shahad, of course.
47:52I just, what's all this left to say is thank you for watching and hopefully we're back next year.
Comments