- 2 days ago
Jennifer Aniston ('The Morning Show'), Jodie Foster ('True Detective: Night Country'), Nicole Kidman ('Expats' & 'Special Ops: Lioness'), Brie Larson ('Lessons in Chemistry'), Anna Sawai ('Shōgun'), Naomi Watts ('Feud: Capote vs. The Swans'), and Sofía Vergara ('Griselda') join Off Script With The Hollywood Reporter. The drama stars weigh in on everything from method acting, mentorship and menopause in THR’s roundtable hosted by Yvonne Orji and moderated by Lacey Rose.
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00:00:00Jen's career, let's talk about it.
00:00:02I wasn't a baby baby.
00:00:03No, but you have sustained an enormous, like, career and success.
00:00:09I don't know how.
00:00:10It's a talent.
00:00:11It's called talent.
00:00:12So every time I get to sit, like, I'm sitting here, I was nervous.
00:00:17I mean, these are, I'll start to cry.
00:00:20But, you know.
00:00:21I get, I'm motivated.
00:00:22I'm still here.
00:00:23We're still here.
00:00:24Yeah.
00:00:24Yeah.
00:00:25Hello, and welcome to Offscript with The Hollywood Reporter.
00:00:28I'm your host, Betty Boop, or better known as Yvonne Orji, and I am here at the beautiful
00:00:34Georgian Hotel in sunny Santa Monica, California.
00:00:37Guys, today's roundtable is packing so much heat, you are going to need that good SPF.
00:00:42I'm talking about 50, not 30.
00:00:43Between their numerous Oscars, Emmys, and decades in Hollywood, this is undeniably an iconic panel.
00:00:51You are about to hear from seven women who lead today's hottest drama series.
00:00:56I am talking about none other than Jennifer Aniston of The Morning Show, Jodie Foster of
00:01:02True Detective Night Country, Nicole Kidman of Expat and Special Ops Lioness, Brie Larson
00:01:09of Lessons in Chemistry, Anna Sawai of Show Gun, Sofia Vergara of Griselda, and Naomi Watts
00:01:18of Feud, Capote vs. the Swans.
00:01:24They are on the record, but just a little off script with The Hollywood Reporter.
00:01:30Take it away, Lacey.
00:01:32Thanks, Yvonne, and thank you all for being here.
00:01:35I'm going to start with a question for everybody.
00:01:38With a show of hands, who's ever lied to land a job?
00:01:43When?
00:01:43Yeah.
00:01:44I don't know if it's time, probably.
00:01:46Yes, for sure, but we all lied that we knew how to ride a horse, and we couldn't.
00:01:50Yeah.
00:01:50No, I didn't ride a horse.
00:01:52Okay, okay, so you didn't have to lie about that.
00:01:53But I did lie about ice skating.
00:01:55You could ice skate.
00:01:57That's a dangerous one.
00:01:58Not a good one to lie about.
00:01:58No.
00:01:59I didn't lie to get a job, but I lied to my agents so that they would take me when I
00:02:05moved to LA.
00:02:06I said that I could sing and dance and everything.
00:02:08Why not?
00:02:09And then they sent me to an audition for Chicago on Broadway.
00:02:14And I said, I'm like, no, I can't.
00:02:16I can't do it.
00:02:18I mean, I never thought they were going to send me for something like that, but I said,
00:02:21yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:02:23And I went and I got the part.
00:02:26What?
00:02:27And then what happened?
00:02:28I played Mama Morton in Chicago.
00:02:30I might have not been fully, I've got full disclosure about, I said I couldn't ride a horse
00:02:35just because I didn't want to ride the horse.
00:02:39There.
00:02:40That was.
00:02:40Yeah.
00:02:41Yeah.
00:02:42I think I, I think I, like, definitely added special skills to resume.
00:02:46What could you do?
00:02:47Multiple languages.
00:02:48Perfect.
00:02:49Yeah.
00:02:50Definitely, probably lots of weird sports.
00:02:54But you can.
00:02:55But I am quite sporty.
00:02:56I can learn a sport.
00:02:58I mean, I did learn to ride a tricycle for a movie once on a pier, but I'd never do it
00:03:05again, obviously.
00:03:06A tricycle?
00:03:08A tricycle.
00:03:09I can't ride a tricycle.
00:03:10No, wait.
00:03:10You decide.
00:03:12You decide.
00:03:12I told you.
00:03:13I'm very happy.
00:03:14Oh, my God.
00:03:18I told you.
00:03:19We're starting with this.
00:03:21We're all like special skills.
00:03:23Please.
00:03:24Jodi, I'm going to start with you.
00:03:26You have reached out to a lot of young actresses, I keep hearing.
00:03:31What prompts the outreach and what do you typically set?
00:03:34Oh, it kind of depends, right?
00:03:36Sometimes you'll really, it's such a difficult process, and especially now, I don't even know
00:03:41how a young actor can come up with all the social media and all that.
00:03:45So, yeah, I guess I fancy myself as some kind of mother figure where I, if I see somebody
00:03:51drunken on their face, for example, at an event, I might be like, so what's going on?
00:03:56You really will.
00:03:58You'll call and...
00:03:59Yeah, I feel for them.
00:04:00You know, I really am grateful for my mom when I was young, getting me through all of
00:04:04that.
00:04:04And somehow I managed to have a series of rules that allowed me to survive, I think.
00:04:12What are the things you all sort of wish somebody had called and told you, whether it's sort
00:04:17of right now in your career or at the beginning of your careers?
00:04:20Just allow yourself to be you and not compare yourself to other people.
00:04:26The whole time, I remember I lived very much under the radar for about 10 years and was
00:04:33auditioning, you know, and you only get the scenes.
00:04:37And so you're trying to imagine who this character is.
00:04:40And it's like, oh, if they need a funny person, I'll be funny.
00:04:44I'll be intense.
00:04:45I'll be sexy.
00:04:46I'll be...
00:04:46But it's like, just bring some of you into the room.
00:04:49That's what they're looking for.
00:04:51And so I was always doing that and then finding myself, you know, in a room, waiting room with
00:04:5710, 12 people who are sitting there learning.
00:04:59And I'm going, oh, God, she looks sexy.
00:05:02I should be sexy.
00:05:03I wore the wrong outfit.
00:05:04Or she looks intelligent.
00:05:06Let me put some glasses on.
00:05:08And, you know, you're always trying to sort of fabricate this person that's so removed
00:05:13from you.
00:05:14Yeah.
00:05:15Yeah.
00:05:15So...
00:05:15I think you can say no was good, was important for me for whatever reason.
00:05:19I didn't know that when I was young, that I could say no.
00:05:22Yeah.
00:05:22And maybe, I think this new generation, that's what's good about this new generation, is
00:05:27they're very comfortable with saying no.
00:05:29They're very, very good at like setting boundaries and going like, I don't like that.
00:05:33And I want to do this.
00:05:34And I didn't know that was possible when I was young.
00:05:36And need the support from us.
00:05:39Or you need the support when you do say no from the others to go, yeah, that's fine.
00:05:44What do we do here?
00:05:46And that's the great thing when you're in a position of producing power or something
00:05:50where you go, well, no, we need to listen to this.
00:05:53We need to honor it.
00:05:54And we need to change the way we're doing something.
00:05:56And that is an incredible position to be able to operate from.
00:06:01Yeah.
00:06:01Because there's always a solution to the no.
00:06:04Yes, yes.
00:06:04It's just that they would rather not have to hear the no.
00:06:07Well, yeah.
00:06:08Obviously.
00:06:09You had this sort of, the confidence, the gumption to say, even, I mean, you're 13,
00:06:1314 years old, to say, well, wait a second, this doesn't feel right.
00:06:16This doesn't feel like me.
00:06:17I guess I'm curious sort of where that comes from, but also how it's received.
00:06:21Oh, not well.
00:06:22Not well.
00:06:22Yeah.
00:06:23No, no.
00:06:24No.
00:06:24I'm just more comfortable with how uncomfortable it makes people that I'm very clear about what
00:06:28a yes and a no is for me.
00:06:30And I think I've learned that if I can understand what a no is and be able to say it before I'm
00:06:35upset about it, it's a much better conversation.
00:06:38Um, some people are surprised, I think, by how quick and concise I can be about things, but
00:06:42I think it actually just avoids a lot of drama in the end.
00:06:46Sure.
00:06:47Um, because the thing I like to remind myself is that no matter what, like you all can have
00:06:51what you want with me on set, but I have to go home and live with myself.
00:06:54And it's a lot of the time you learn what your no's are from saying yes to it or being
00:06:59in the heat of the moment.
00:06:59And then you go home and you're like, why do I feel bad?
00:07:03Yep.
00:07:03And sometimes they're a little sneaky thing.
00:07:05Sometimes it's clear.
00:07:06Sometimes you're like, oh yeah, it was those little tiny things that actually added up
00:07:09and made me feel not good.
00:07:10And I have a whole job to do, you know?
00:07:12So, um, I've just become very confident with that part of it about like that I'm in charge
00:07:18of myself, which I know is like such a small thing, but it's tough.
00:07:22If you haven't been on a set, it's hard to understand.
00:07:24I think like how quick the pace of everything and that you feel like there's this pressure
00:07:28and you're going to let people down.
00:07:29And instead you learn that you're letting yourself down, not to let everybody else down.
00:07:33And that just doesn't work.
00:07:34Not to say that I have a perfect track record.
00:07:36Of course there were times where I was like, please, someone love me.
00:07:39That's just like part of it too.
00:07:41But I will say that, yeah, I'm, I'm good with no.
00:07:45No, I've got handled, I think.
00:07:47And your team was very supportive of that.
00:07:49Mm-hmm.
00:07:49Oh, nice.
00:07:50Yeah, they were.
00:07:50They were.
00:07:51Because I was working in Japan for a while and they were like, to say yes is the most
00:07:57mature thing that you can do.
00:07:59Always say yes.
00:07:59Don't really tell us what you want.
00:08:02We've been doing this for the longest time.
00:08:04So just trust us.
00:08:05And so it's only been recent years that I've been starting to get used to saying what I
00:08:10want.
00:08:10And it's so refreshing because my team will be like, what do you want to do?
00:08:14And I'm like, me?
00:08:15Me?
00:08:16Yeah.
00:08:16I'm allowed to say it.
00:08:17So, yeah, it's been a slow process, but it was difficult in Japan.
00:08:22I still have trouble with it, I have to say.
00:08:25Yeah, I do.
00:08:26Which pieces of no?
00:08:27I still walk on.
00:08:27What aspects of no and in what situation?
00:08:29Was it the job or during the job?
00:08:31No, because it's sometimes blurry for me because sometimes my, I can bristle and be like, no.
00:08:37And then when I kind of feel it out and do something, I'm like, oh, this wasn't so bad.
00:08:42So it's kind of trying to find my own inner voice that I'm like, is this me just reacting
00:08:50or is it me really needing to protect myself now?
00:08:55Because part of what we do, you dive into things that are deeply uncomfortable.
00:09:01So the idea of like, and I've had to teach myself to not always go, I can't do that.
00:09:07Like, oh, like my initial reaction can actually be that instead of, okay, ease into it because
00:09:14I sort of need to be coaxed sometimes.
00:09:16So it's finding that, I'm still finding that compass.
00:09:19There's times when you think, oh, I can't do that.
00:09:21I can't do it.
00:09:22And then you need the support of, you actually can.
00:09:24You actually can because it'll just be more of a fear-based no than a legitimate, like,
00:09:31this is dangerous or this is going to, you're going to feel terrible about this, which I've
00:09:36also had, but there's times when I've gone, gosh, I'm glad I didn't give into that.
00:09:40And I feel like as you get older, I mean, I say yes more easily because I just feel like
00:09:48I want to be open to as many experiences as possible and, yes, go into the discomfort
00:09:55zone as much as I can and grow.
00:09:58And I mean, I think you said it beautifully, the Andy Warhol quote of like, just say yes,
00:10:05make art and get what you can out of it, fall into it, grow and then, and let others decide
00:10:12what it is or not.
00:10:14And, but you just keep going.
00:10:15I think what I'm hearing in all of this, because I'm kind of defining it now for myself
00:10:18is like, it's not like anything that's getting in the way of doing the best work that I possibly
00:10:25can, that's where my yeses and nos come in.
00:10:27If I feel like there's something, whether it's a yes or a no, that's like, oh, that's
00:10:32going to make me so uncomfortable.
00:10:33I can't focus and do what I need to do.
00:10:35Or like, this is a yes.
00:10:37And like the fear stuff is like the best part, I think.
00:10:40Yeah.
00:10:40Like when you're like, oh, I know I'm supposed to do this and I'm so scared.
00:10:45That's different.
00:10:46But when it's like things that are toggling so that you can actually just do work that
00:10:50feels responsible and safe.
00:10:52That's where those yeses and nos come in for me.
00:10:54There's another piece of outreach that I think I've heard you say you do, which is
00:10:58if you read someone's going to play a superhero character, you'll reach out.
00:11:03Oh, yeah.
00:11:03We need to know what the superhero tips are.
00:11:05What are they?
00:11:07I always do.
00:11:08You're a mentor?
00:11:09Always.
00:11:10Always.
00:11:12I'm like the first person to email everybody.
00:11:15Yeah, because it's very specific and very strange.
00:11:18People are like, I don't know how to do this.
00:11:19I'm like, yeah, no one does.
00:11:20Why would you?
00:11:21So what do you say?
00:11:22Give us some wisdom.
00:11:24Well, I mean, the simple things are, as I say, like be as prepared in your body as you
00:11:28possibly can so that you feel like you can take it on because it only gets harder as
00:11:32the job goes on.
00:11:33Really understand how to be able to go to the bathroom in your suit.
00:11:36Like zippers?
00:11:37Is that what that is?
00:11:38Yeah.
00:11:39I mean, it was like the first Captain Marvel.
00:11:41Yeah.
00:11:41Don't drink.
00:11:42Don't do anything to make it harder for yourself the next day.
00:11:45I mean, the first Captain Marvel, it was like a 45-minute thing to get me in and out of
00:11:49that costume to go to the bathroom.
00:11:50And it took like someone helping me.
00:11:52So there wasn't even a little like that secret trap door.
00:11:55That's why I'm like, get a plan and understand.
00:11:58Yeah, so little zippers.
00:11:59I understand it when people have to wait for me to go to the bathroom.
00:12:02So I would always have to time it out.
00:12:04I have to be like, okay, we have a long break because I'm going to.
00:12:06Oh, that would give me anxiety.
00:12:07Yeah, it's a whole thing.
00:12:08You can't have a sip of water.
00:12:09It's a whole thing.
00:12:11And it can feel, it's a lot of pressure.
00:12:13And I think it's a strange thing, especially when you're a newcomer and you're tasked with
00:12:18being the most powerful blah, blah, blah of blah, blah, blah.
00:12:22And you feel scared.
00:12:24Like it's so hard to be like the cool, confident one when you're like, do I know what I'm supposed
00:12:28to be doing?
00:12:29And so it's just the initial conversation.
00:12:32And then it's also like, please just call me or text me if you're like, I don't understand.
00:12:37And like, and a lot of people are like, how do you do it with just like a tape mark or
00:12:39a blue wall?
00:12:40And, oh yeah, you know, there's things like that, but more than anything, it's just, I
00:12:45remember feeling so petrified and I felt very lucky that I came into Marvel at a time
00:12:51when it was this 10 year anniversary.
00:12:53So I was around everybody on Avengers and I was like, will you help me?
00:12:56I'm the new superhero.
00:12:57And they're like, you got it kid.
00:12:58And like, but people gave me like actual tangible pieces of advice and felt like they were an
00:13:03open sounding board.
00:13:04And just having that made me feel like it was okay that I was there.
00:13:08Sure.
00:13:08Yeah.
00:13:09For everyone, what, if we were sort of going to describe the current era of your careers
00:13:15in terms of what's coming at you, projects that you're approached with, are there some
00:13:20through lines?
00:13:21I feel like the last time I sat with you, Jen, it was a lot of really dark material that
00:13:25was coming your way.
00:13:25I don't know if it's still, if you're still in that chapter or if we move to a new one.
00:13:30They go, they've kind of falls in between because living in that dark space, I, as a
00:13:37comedian, you know, ultimately when I started, it's not easy.
00:13:41It's really hard.
00:13:42And that's why, you know, going home, I would listen to smart lists on my way to work and
00:13:46home from work just to laugh and get out of that.
00:13:50I don't, I don't go home and live in my character, which I know some people do.
00:13:54And that's really awesome for their, that's how their, their method is wonderful.
00:13:59I choose to just get rid of it as fast as I can.
00:14:02But I usually say I need, I need a comedy right now.
00:14:07I need to, I need some levity.
00:14:08So that's usually, it's, it's not, yeah.
00:14:13Yeah.
00:14:14What about you, Safiya?
00:14:15Well, it's interesting because I feel very awkward now here because, you know, this is
00:14:23like my favorite group of actresses and I realized I don't know anything about acting.
00:14:29Oh.
00:14:30No, but it's not in a bad way.
00:14:33It's like, it's just a reality, you know?
00:14:35And if I have to say no or yes on all those things, maybe because I started so late in
00:14:40my life to want it to be in this career, it's, to me, it was more like a lucky thing.
00:14:48Let's see if I can fool everyone, you know?
00:14:51I feel like the worst that could happen if I say no or yes to something is that, you know,
00:14:57it's going to be bad and whatever.
00:14:59We're not doing a brain surgery to anyone.
00:15:02We're not ruining their lives.
00:15:04So I take it as a gift, the opportunity, or I invent the opportunity thinking, what is
00:15:12the worst if it could happen?
00:15:14If they don't like me, they don't like me.
00:15:16If they like me, they like me.
00:15:18And for example, as a comedic actress, I cannot even, I don't even, I'm not comfortable even
00:15:24saying that I did do 11 years of Modern Family, but it was almost playing myself in a way what
00:15:31you were saying at the beginning.
00:15:32It was like, how am I going to do this?
00:15:34This, I had never went to an acting class in my life.
00:15:37I just went to an audition and this thing.
00:15:40So I'm like, oh, that's why I'm always, it's like a gift.
00:15:43It's like, oh, yes.
00:15:44Okay.
00:15:45Let's do it.
00:15:45So I created this character from more of like my family.
00:15:50I knew this character.
00:15:52So I was like, I'm going to do it.
00:15:54And then when I started to decide to do something different, it's hard because this accent is
00:15:58beautiful.
00:15:59And, you know, it's like, I cannot be a scientist, obviously.
00:16:04I cannot be an astronaut.
00:16:05Sure you can.
00:16:06Yeah.
00:16:06Who's telling you you can?
00:16:08Yeah.
00:16:08If I produce the movie and it's going to be not great.
00:16:12No.
00:16:13That's what she wants next.
00:16:15Let's make it happen.
00:16:17No, I don't want to.
00:16:18I don't want to be a scientist.
00:16:20No.
00:16:20But no, but that's why, for example, when I decided to do Grey's Zelda, I was like,
00:16:32it was never thinking, oh, I want to not, people not to think that I'm only, you know,
00:16:37Gloria or this thing.
00:16:39No, it was that character.
00:16:40It's like, I know that character.
00:16:41I live there.
00:16:42I live in Colombia in that era.
00:16:44And I'm like, can I do it?
00:16:46I think I can because I, I mean, my brother was a drug dealer and unfortunately he got
00:16:51killed at that era.
00:16:52Like I knew that person the same way I knew Gloria, but I've never seen it as a woman.
00:16:58I knew it as a man, many, many, many, I lived there in Colombia.
00:17:03And then I said, maybe I cannot do it.
00:17:06And I said, I'm going to find out who Jennifer Aniston worked with.
00:17:11I was just going to say.
00:17:12Yes.
00:17:13It's true.
00:17:13Oh, because by the way, every time I go to work,
00:17:16even in two months when I start the next season of Morning Show, I don't know, I'm
00:17:21like, I don't know how to, I don't know how to do this.
00:17:22I don't know what I'm doing.
00:17:24I don't know.
00:17:24Absolutely zero memory of how to be an actor or any rules or anything.
00:17:28It's like starting again.
00:17:29It starts all over every year.
00:17:30It's like crazy, but I found a person, I found a person that I'm like, who did she go
00:17:34to sometimes to prepare?
00:17:36And I found Nancy Banks.
00:17:38Yeah.
00:17:38I was just going to say.
00:17:39And I said, can you maybe help me with this thing?
00:17:41I've never done this, but I don't care if it's bad or good or something.
00:17:46But I want to do it.
00:17:47Let me do it.
00:17:47Help me do it.
00:17:48So brilliant.
00:17:49I'm so happy that happened.
00:17:50You did.
00:17:50Incredible.
00:17:51Yeah.
00:17:51I miss it tonight.
00:17:52Unbelievable.
00:17:52I try not to think too much of yes or no's or yes, because I started old.
00:17:57I'm 52 years old.
00:17:58And I started when I was 37.
00:18:00So I already knew how to say no.
00:18:02Right.
00:18:02You know?
00:18:03No.
00:18:05What does come your way?
00:18:06That's a good no.
00:18:06What is presented to you?
00:18:10What comes across your inbox?
00:18:13Comedy, which I love.
00:18:15I don't want to be Gloria again.
00:18:17Yep.
00:18:17Maybe because I don't know if I can.
00:18:19I don't know yet if I can do more different comedy that is not.
00:18:23I cannot take this accent away no matter what.
00:18:26I tried.
00:18:27Like at the beginning of my career, I'm like, I cannot.
00:18:30When I moved to L.A., I'm like, I cannot believe why Penelope Cruz or Sandra Hayek don't
00:18:34change their accent.
00:18:35They're going to have so much more opportunities.
00:18:37I want to do it.
00:18:38Of course, it's like I spend so much money, time with fucking, like, sorry.
00:18:44You can hear us.
00:18:44You're good.
00:18:45You're good.
00:18:46People teaching me.
00:18:47Dial a coach.
00:18:47It was a waste of my time.
00:18:49I would go to the auditions and all I could think was, like, where do I put the tongue to
00:18:54do the, I'm like, listen, I can't do this.
00:18:57I can't.
00:18:58I'm going to go back either to Miami or I'm just going to start going with this.
00:19:02But then this, of course, limits you.
00:19:04This is too.
00:19:04This limits you.
00:19:04To me at this point.
00:19:05Yeah, but there you know how to do every accent in the world.
00:19:09Oh, with hell.
00:19:10A lot of hell.
00:19:11With hell.
00:19:12Even with an operation, they cannot.
00:19:16There is no, I've tried.
00:19:17It's like, no.
00:19:18So, I think now I'm more into the what I want to create for me.
00:19:25And because we saw that it's a world now, a lot of people are like, yeah, what else do
00:19:29you have?
00:19:30What else do you have?
00:19:30So I'm going to take a look at this.
00:19:31What a neat up.
00:19:32Yeah.
00:19:32So exciting.
00:19:33Totally.
00:19:33So are people, is changing, is the tide changing now?
00:19:36Will you be more interested in that kind of work?
00:19:39Yeah.
00:19:40But you know what?
00:19:41I don't know if I want to do something like that exactly because I didn't know what I
00:19:45was going to do.
00:19:46I don't even know what it meant.
00:19:47I don't know how you guys do it because what it is, the pleasure of going to a set to laugh
00:19:52all day, the lines, the people, the friend, you crack out.
00:19:57I mean, but drama is a complete crazy thing.
00:20:01It's like, and I had never, I had never acted, and this sounds ridiculous, but I had never
00:20:06acted in Spanish, only in this perfect English.
00:20:09Oh, wow, no kidding.
00:20:10Oh, you need to make a Spanish language.
00:20:13No, I didn't.
00:20:13It has Spanish, it has English, but that's why it was so hard because it was like, yeah,
00:20:19I didn't know to, only this perfect English was what I, it was beautiful.
00:20:25Like, Nick, do you find, if you play Australian, you have to get coached.
00:20:32Is that true?
00:20:32No, you've not coached.
00:20:35Okay, well, yeah, she's much more Aussie than me.
00:20:38She's a proper Aussie.
00:20:39You've got grit in there.
00:20:40I've got some British in there, and I...
00:20:41Can you hear that?
00:20:43No, no, I've got some British in there.
00:20:44And I didn't move to Australia.
00:20:46Yes, English, Australian, and changing my accent in so many different shows, characters,
00:20:54or whatever, I forget where my own voice is sometimes because you work so hard to be
00:20:59understood.
00:21:00You know, like in a restaurant, I don't ask for water.
00:21:04I ask for water or butter, you know, because people are like, what?
00:21:08Oh, wait, where are you coming from?
00:21:09You know, like, oh, forget it.
00:21:10Just water.
00:21:11That's my life.
00:21:12My life.
00:21:13Yeah.
00:21:14That's so cool.
00:21:15Anyway.
00:21:16I love it.
00:21:17Anna, I've heard you initially feared with Shogun that it would be another sort of depiction
00:21:22of Japanese women being sexualized by white men.
00:21:25Right.
00:21:26I guess I'm curious how many other projects had crossed your desk where that was precisely
00:21:32what was happening.
00:21:33It wasn't just Japanese women being sexualized.
00:21:36It was always that they were defined by the relationship that they had with the male character,
00:21:41or they weren't, we didn't really understand their story enough.
00:21:46Like, they were always just, like, the sub-character.
00:21:48And oftentimes when you hear Japanese women, you think, oh, they're obedient, they're sexy,
00:21:55or they can do just, you know, action somehow.
00:21:59And for me, it's like, that's not who we are.
00:22:02We're so much more complex.
00:22:04And even if we do appear obedient, it's because society has made us that way, and there's so
00:22:09much that's bottled inside.
00:22:11And I'd never seen in Western media a complex woman with depth who had their own story, who
00:22:20wasn't just with the male character.
00:22:25And so when I read the sides, it was my character going into a bath with the white pilot.
00:22:34And I was like, okay, this is going to be the same thing.
00:22:38And I played it in that way, and they didn't call me back.
00:22:41And then I had a conversation with our showrunner, and he explained that it wasn't that kind of scene.
00:22:47Like, he wanted it to be the connection that they have with their background, their history,
00:22:52and their just conversation.
00:22:55And so I taped again, and I played it like she wasn't really taking off her kimono.
00:23:00And, like, it was just that...
00:23:03Equals.
00:23:04Yeah, yeah.
00:23:05And they liked me.
00:23:07And so once that happened, I was like, okay, this is the type of women that we haven't been
00:23:12able to see that I'm sure Japanese women, when they watch it, will see themselves reflected
00:23:19in.
00:23:20So it was really important to me.
00:23:21And in the end, with that bath scene, we actually had Blackthorn in the bath, in the hot
00:23:28spring, but my character just walking in and sitting down and gazing outwards.
00:23:34And it's even more intimate because, you know, that there's nothing physical about it.
00:23:40So, yeah, I'm just very lucky that we're finally being able to give a portrayal of real Japanese
00:23:47women.
00:23:48I love that.
00:23:49Brilliant.
00:23:49Brilliant.
00:23:50What are the sort of roles or perhaps it's terms, triggering terms and character descriptions
00:23:56that make you all say, like, not going to do this?
00:23:59Broken but beautiful.
00:24:00Or beautiful but she doesn't know it.
00:24:05That one came so easily to you.
00:24:07Oh, yeah, I was ready.
00:24:07I read that so many times.
00:24:08I read that last week, probably.
00:24:10Beautiful but doesn't know it.
00:24:12Like, how?
00:24:13But you're telling me.
00:24:15They do know it.
00:24:16I crossed everything out anyway.
00:24:18You do?
00:24:18Oh, yeah.
00:24:19The stage directions.
00:24:20Yeah, I was taught to cross stuff out, like, early.
00:24:23I was just like, because it's very resolute.
00:24:26Yeah.
00:24:26And it may be a nice guide, but you don't want to be confined by it.
00:24:34Locked in, yeah.
00:24:34And I think you may have a better idea or the director might or, you know, so.
00:24:39And that's there to fall back on.
00:24:40But if you want to really find it, then you kind of have to go, hmm, maybe it doesn't
00:24:47walk out of the room right now.
00:24:48I mean, sort of similar to what you were talking about.
00:24:51Hmm, maybe it doesn't take the kimono off.
00:24:54Maybe it doesn't do, you know, because then sometimes that can map out some magic.
00:25:00I don't know that this is as true now as it was, you know, for most of my career.
00:25:04But I was always just shocked and amazed that so many of the scripts that I read, the entire
00:25:11motivation for the female character was that she had, she'd been traumatized by rape.
00:25:16That it seemed to be the only motivation that male screenwriters could come up with for
00:25:24why women did things.
00:25:25It's like, wow, she's kind of in a bad mood.
00:25:28Yeah.
00:25:28Yeah, there's definitely some rape in her past.
00:25:31Oh, my God.
00:25:31You know, rape or molestation seemed to be the one, the one kind of lurid, big emotional
00:25:41backstory that they could understand in women.
00:25:43That they couldn't really find complexity or they couldn't really understand that we
00:25:48have conflict and that there's parts of us that are ambivalent.
00:25:50And, you know, we may show one way, but we're lying.
00:25:53And so I don't, I didn't take it personally.
00:25:56I think when I, once I was able to be old enough to be able to say, like, let's look
00:26:01at this differently.
00:26:03I think I did have a responsibility to come in and say, you're not always going to get
00:26:08the most perfectly fleshed out female character, but maybe there's an opportunity for us to
00:26:12work together and create something that way.
00:26:14Yeah.
00:26:15Yeah.
00:26:15And which is why also I think now we're all working hard to put women at the helm because
00:26:21that's a really, you know, the viewpoint suddenly becomes very different.
00:26:27And there's a conversation that happens off camera, before camera about the project that
00:26:32then you go, oh, right.
00:26:33Okay, good.
00:26:34So you're going to help create the path for this, which was like when Lulu Wong came on
00:26:41to do expats, she was like, this is what's going to happen because I know this and this
00:26:46is how it's going to happen because I know this.
00:26:49And there's something incredibly freeing when there's a woman going, these are, these are
00:26:57the characters.
00:26:58This is how I'm going to, and incredible authority, you know, and then you go, yeah, I'm going to
00:27:04step into line with that because you've got my back.
00:27:07Yeah, you feel protected in that.
00:27:10Anne Hathaway said something recently that I found both surprising and quite disturbing.
00:27:16Back in the 2000s, she said, it was considered normal to ask an actor to make out with other
00:27:20actors to test for chemistry.
00:27:21I was told, we have 10 guys coming in today and you're already cast.
00:27:25Aren't you excited to make out with them?
00:27:28She wasn't excited, of course.
00:27:31You are surprised.
00:27:33No, I've never had that ever said to me.
00:27:35I'm curious if there are other variations of this.
00:27:38To be excited to make out with someone, I think maybe secretly I've been excited.
00:27:42Chemistry?
00:27:42Do you mean like chemistry reads?
00:27:45I always say what you're done, but I haven't been, I haven't been told like, you're going
00:27:49to have to, you know, lay down and, yeah.
00:27:52Oh, no.
00:27:53Simulates.
00:27:53Yes.
00:27:54No.
00:27:55No.
00:27:55Not normal.
00:27:56Never, and I would never.
00:27:59You have.
00:28:00You have.
00:28:01You have.
00:28:02Just once, yeah.
00:28:04It was awkward.
00:28:04A bunch of people that may or may not get the job.
00:28:08Yeah, exactly.
00:28:09I didn't get the job, so I clearly did not do a good make out.
00:28:13I thought you meant like someone, I see what you're, I thought you meant as the hired actor.
00:28:17No, I was being auditioned.
00:28:19Oh, I see.
00:28:20Oh, you were being auditioned.
00:28:21Yeah.
00:28:21Right.
00:28:22Yeah.
00:28:22With.
00:28:23Yeah.
00:28:23A very well-known actor.
00:28:25And I didn't, I didn't get it.
00:28:27Um, and it was mortifying because we didn't hear a cut, and it just kept going.
00:28:36Yeah, that is.
00:28:37And, um, and then he was like, okay, okay.
00:28:41And I, and we all, we both were like, oh, uh, sorry, we didn't hear, and it was just like,
00:28:47oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
00:28:49Oh, oh.
00:28:52Um, but I did feel a bit rattled.
00:28:54Yeah, I bet.
00:28:56Absolutely.
00:28:57The whole idea of a chemistry reading is, is in itself an uncomfortable thing because if
00:29:02you don't have chemistry, that, that is uncomfortable.
00:29:04And presumably you've seen these people again.
00:29:06Also, chemistry is, like, you cannot have chemistry.
00:29:11Yeah, and made it.
00:29:11And on screen, it's made.
00:29:13Yes.
00:29:14Honestly.
00:29:15Always bad.
00:29:16It is.
00:29:17So true.
00:29:18I mean, that's a fallacy.
00:29:20There's a way you can shoot things.
00:29:22I mean, that's, I think, just relying on chemistry, that's lazy.
00:29:28You know, there's the writing, there's the interaction,
00:29:32and then there's the director stepping in and going,
00:29:34this is actually going to work better, and I think here,
00:29:37and you can literally be directed through.
00:29:40And when you look at the films that have great love scenes,
00:29:45they were very directed a lot of the times.
00:29:48When you talk about them, they're like, oh, no, it was complete.
00:29:54It was choreographed a lot of times.
00:29:57And people underestimate the power of acting.
00:30:01Yeah.
00:30:02So.
00:30:02Yeah.
00:30:03Yeah.
00:30:03Also, it feels not right, because when you're in an audition room,
00:30:08you're already at a disadvantage, because how do you even,
00:30:12you probably maybe might have chemistry with this person
00:30:15if you weren't in an environment.
00:30:17Yes.
00:30:18Like, create your chemistry.
00:30:20Ready go.
00:30:21That's, it's hard enough just to walk into.
00:30:24I mean, for me, I'm a terrible auditioner.
00:30:26Always was.
00:30:26Same.
00:30:27Horrible.
00:30:28And I waitressed forever before I could finally get something.
00:30:32Like a Bob's Big Boy commercial.
00:30:35So it was, but that's always, so then if you're a nervous auditioner to begin with,
00:30:40to then say, no, let's have you make out with a complete stranger.
00:30:43Yeah.
00:30:43But it was, it's a very uncomfortable, and it's very unrealistic to expect you're going
00:30:50to get a beautiful chemistry read in that.
00:30:52Yeah.
00:30:53Auditioning.
00:30:54Direct me.
00:30:54Yes.
00:30:55I mean, some people, I don't know if you guys remember, like, who has done a lot of auditioning
00:31:03or not, but some people are really good at it.
00:31:06But I was a shocking auditioner.
00:31:10Like, literally, I could feel the energy in the room where people were like, hurry this
00:31:14along.
00:31:15And I would even go, yeah, don't worry, I'm out of your way in one second.
00:31:20Literally, you don't even have to look me in the eye and shake my hand.
00:31:22No, no, no, no, no, it's fine.
00:31:23I'll just get out of here.
00:31:25I was horrible.
00:31:26And that's why I was basically unhirable for 10 years, and it took meeting David Lynch,
00:31:33who's a master of filmmaking, and he just sat and looked at me and talked and said, tell
00:31:40me about yourself.
00:31:41And I fell into it, this conversation.
00:31:44I was like, wait, really, you want to take time with me?
00:31:46You want to know shit about me and how I was raised and, you know, all of that?
00:31:51And he was sitting there smoking and saying, tell me more, Naomi, tell me.
00:31:55That sounds fascinating.
00:31:57And then I just, I got the job.
00:32:00I didn't even have to audition.
00:32:01He just wanted to talk.
00:32:02It was a...
00:32:03Incredible.
00:32:04Yeah.
00:32:04Sophia, you referenced this idea of what it takes to do a drama.
00:32:08I feel like you've talked about this idea of playing Griselda and you'd come home with
00:32:13her rage.
00:32:15Mad as hell, I think, is how you've described it.
00:32:18I'm curious of what that's looked like for whoever has felt that.
00:32:23Yeah, how did it manifest?
00:32:24Well, for me, it was very, very difficult and different.
00:32:28And the first three weeks, mainly, I didn't know what was happening to me because, okay,
00:32:33I had those three things that were weird for me that I was acting first in Spanish.
00:32:37I had never used prosthetics ever.
00:32:40And it was my first drama.
00:32:43I've only done really Modern Family.
00:32:45So I thought it was...
00:32:46I didn't know what I was walking into.
00:32:49And when I arrived, I realized this is different.
00:32:53And it's hard when you have to cry and kill and choke and do snore cocaine and drink alcohol.
00:33:01And, you know, I had never even in my life touched a cigarette.
00:33:05Never.
00:33:05And I had to learn and to learn at 50 years old to smoke.
00:33:10And you're going to be in every single scene smoking.
00:33:13I was like, huh?
00:33:15It's like, how am I going to make that?
00:33:18How?
00:33:19And I said, okay, I'll just do whatever.
00:33:21And I let the director, you know, do...
00:33:24Help me.
00:33:24Help me with everything.
00:33:26But then the first three weeks, I would go home.
00:33:29And I didn't know what was wrong with me.
00:33:31What would it feel like?
00:33:31What would it look like?
00:33:32It was like I couldn't fall asleep.
00:33:35But because I was screaming, I was like mad.
00:33:38Wow.
00:33:39Interesting.
00:33:39I didn't...
00:33:40I had never cried on anything.
00:33:43You don't cry on Modern Family.
00:33:45No.
00:33:45So then I was crying on a set.
00:33:48Then you go home and I didn't know what was happening to me.
00:33:50So I decided I'm going to take Xanax to go to sleep.
00:33:52Because then I had, you know, to wake up the next day to go again, you know, super early.
00:33:59So I said, it's like, it's either I start sleeping or I'm going to die.
00:34:03You know?
00:34:03It's like, so I started taking a little bit of Xanax and then understanding and talking to Nassie.
00:34:08It's like, Nassie, I don't know if I'm going to survive this.
00:34:11It's like, it's not just now.
00:34:14But it's so interesting because what the way she works is, you know, you're unlocking some stuff that you have been sort of praying.
00:34:22Very wonderfully down into the depths of Urbani.
00:34:26Well, for me, my whole life, I come from Colombia, you know, I've had a lot of crazy stories why I knew I could do Griselda.
00:34:36I had it all.
00:34:37But those were the things that my whole life, to keep my sanity.
00:34:42You're tucked away.
00:34:43Yeah.
00:34:43And then here comes this woman and tells me, okay.
00:34:48That's a great deal.
00:34:49I was like, I'm not going to be able to cry no matter what.
00:34:51I only laugh.
00:34:52I can only cry when I'm laughing.
00:34:54Like, I don't know how to cry.
00:34:56She's like, you're going to do it.
00:34:58And then you don't stop.
00:34:59And then I did it the first time.
00:35:02I was like, I think I'm going to cry in every scene.
00:35:05The director is like, do you want me to cry in this one?
00:35:09He's like, no.
00:35:10Why would you be crying?
00:35:11You're opening the refrigerator and telling the guys that they need to leave.
00:35:14So, it was a very crazy experience for me.
00:35:21Sure.
00:35:21Because it was everything new.
00:35:24But I did it.
00:35:25It was six months.
00:35:27I thought it changes you a little bit.
00:35:29I don't know how you guys do it all the time, those dramas.
00:35:33It's like, comedy is so much nicer.
00:35:34You need to.
00:35:35A comedy.
00:35:36I agree.
00:35:37It's a dream.
00:35:39Presumably, you've done almost no comedies in my life.
00:35:43Do you want to?
00:35:44I do.
00:35:44I enjoy them for the first two weeks.
00:35:46And then after two weeks, I'm like, I can't do this one more minute longer.
00:35:52I think it's that energy, sort of enforced energy that you have to find.
00:35:56I find drama much easier.
00:35:58I do, too.
00:36:00But is it because it's your wheelhouse?
00:36:03Like, you've been doing that?
00:36:04Like, I feel nervous that I'm going to screw up the joke.
00:36:08Like, the joke is coming.
00:36:09Oh, God.
00:36:10Oh, God.
00:36:10Panic, panic.
00:36:11I think it's the introvert thing.
00:36:13I think I'm genuinely an introverted person.
00:36:16So, I think in order to keep the energy on the set, you need to be a more extroverted person.
00:36:22It's just not natural to me at all.
00:36:24So, after two weeks, I'm exhausted.
00:36:26Right.
00:36:26Right.
00:36:27But are you bringing home the dramas?
00:36:29Like, when you are playing?
00:36:30Are you bringing home the dramas?
00:36:31Bring home the drama.
00:36:32I think so.
00:36:33No, I don't, you know.
00:36:35No, first of all, none of us know what we're doing.
00:36:36I don't know if anybody told you, but none of us know what we're doing.
00:36:40Nobody wants to do that.
00:36:40And that's really the beauty of it, I think, is to have that freshness of doubting yourself,
00:36:45of walking and going, I don't know if I'm going to be able to.
00:36:47That's what performance is.
00:36:48Like, they say action, and it may come, and it may not.
00:36:51And the real meditation is accepting that and being able to relax.
00:36:57And so, you know, now at 60, I have to say I feel so blessed at 60 because my role now
00:37:04is to come in and be like, don't worry about it, don't worry about it.
00:37:07Yeah.
00:37:08You've never done that.
00:37:09You've never done that.
00:37:10Yeah, because that's the only thing you really do have to learn over time is just how to relax
00:37:15and allow.
00:37:17And young people have a hard time with that.
00:37:19Sure.
00:37:19In their 20s.
00:37:20Yeah.
00:37:21Nicole, I remember the last time you did a roundtable, you were talking for Big Little
00:37:25Lies, and you were coming home from a day at work and throwing a rock through a door.
00:37:31Are those still, I mean, and you haven't, you continue to play.
00:37:34I threw a rock through a glass.
00:37:35You did.
00:37:37Because it was locked, and I couldn't get in, so I threw the rock.
00:37:41Yeah.
00:37:42Yeah.
00:37:42And you have not, you've not stopped?
00:37:44I've never done that in my life.
00:37:46I was so, yeah, obviously pent up.
00:37:49I broke the whole thing.
00:37:50It cost a fortune.
00:37:51And then I went back the next day, and I said to Alexander and Jean-Marc, I threw a rock
00:37:57through the window.
00:37:58And they were like, whoa.
00:38:00Yeah.
00:38:01Watch out.
00:38:02I said, I was kind of pissed off.
00:38:05I'm actually pissed off.
00:38:07Because I think there's a way in which we operate where the show must go on, and you
00:38:14just keep going.
00:38:15That's part of you, you show up, and you do it, and you do it, and you do it, and you
00:38:21do it.
00:38:21And a lot of times, yeah, they're six months, it's 12, 14-hour days, and there really isn't
00:38:28the time to go, and I need to take care of myself.
00:38:31It's quick, get home, get to bed, to get back there.
00:38:34Yeah.
00:38:34And you keep playing the darkest of dark rooms.
00:38:36No, I don't.
00:38:38I've seen them.
00:38:39I asked the expats, I went and did a comedy, because I was like, I kind of went crazy with
00:38:45my own psychology, and I went, this is unhealthy, and it's something that I think we need to
00:38:51talk about as actors, because protecting your body so you can live to be, for as long as
00:38:59you're going to be given on this earth, there is an amount of protection that you need to
00:39:04learn.
00:39:04Because I always thought when I was doing it.
00:39:06It's very tough on the psyche.
00:39:07Yeah, it's like, how does the body, does it know that you're going through that, you
00:39:11know, at that moment?
00:39:11It doesn't.
00:39:12That feeling, that horrible thing, it's like, how does it not know?
00:39:16It's like putting the body into a stress the whole time.
00:39:20I mean, it's...
00:39:21But the idea of being able to go and get a massage, or some sort of thing that you go,
00:39:27okay, have a hot bath, and just go, it's okay.
00:39:31And so much of probably everyone sitting at this table is like, that pat on me,
00:39:36on the back, just someone touching you and going, it's okay.
00:39:41And when you're not getting the scene...
00:39:42I could have got some teared up when you just said that.
00:39:44Yeah.
00:39:45Let's be teared up when you just said that.
00:39:47It's like the reach out for each other is so important.
00:39:52And then also that thing of what you were saying was just relax, because you can show up,
00:39:58no matter what work you've done, and be shocking, really bad.
00:40:01And everyone's going, yikes, this is not what we thought.
00:40:06And the scene isn't working, and you have this director looking at you with eyes like, what?
00:40:12But the relaxation and the ability to know it's going to happen, it will happen,
00:40:18is one of the greatest things.
00:40:18No amount of anxiety makes you feel...
00:40:20And that is not the way to go.
00:40:25It's okay, we're going to get there, no matter how stressful, no matter how tough the role is.
00:40:31I'll shut up now.
00:40:32No.
00:40:32I will not say another word.
00:40:34I love it.
00:40:35Love it.
00:40:35It really is.
00:40:37Brie, in Lessons in Chemistry, you play a character that men inherently distrust and dislike
00:40:43for no reason other than the fact that she is a woman.
00:40:47Uh-huh.
00:40:47Is that right?
00:40:50I guess I couldn't help but see the correlation between how...
00:40:55Oh, okay.
00:40:56Is this where you think it's going?
00:40:58I'm scared.
00:40:58Let's keep going.
00:40:59Okay.
00:41:00Couldn't help but see the correlation between what your character experiences
00:41:04and what you, as you sort of navigate the sort of superhero Marvel world, has experienced.
00:41:10Well, I don't know if it's specific to Marvel.
00:41:12I think that's just...
00:41:13I only know my experience, and my experience is being underestimated at times.
00:41:19Yeah.
00:41:19So...
00:41:20Do you draw from that in a character like this?
00:41:23Yeah, yeah, of course.
00:41:23I think the best I've been able to find with characters I play is that they're all me.
00:41:28It's just, like, a mixing board.
00:41:30It's like if you've ever watched, like, I don't know, a musician, and they're mixing
00:41:34their music, and it's like, oh, that's that lever.
00:41:37And I'm just messing with those.
00:41:39There's things that are living inside of you that I don't know if you would have given a
00:41:43life to without it.
00:41:45And sometimes they're really beautiful, and sometimes they're sad.
00:41:47Sometimes they're scary.
00:41:48Sometimes they make you stay up at night.
00:41:50But all of those things, I feel like my life is so...
00:41:54It's so enriched.
00:41:56Yeah.
00:41:57It's been so enriched by it.
00:41:58And I think the hardest part for me has not been committing to the characters.
00:42:03It's getting out of them.
00:42:04Do you have tricks?
00:42:05Like, do you have a...
00:42:06Yeah, I've been...
00:42:08I basically haven't done anything as dark as room, sense room, because it took me, like,
00:42:13a year to get out of it.
00:42:15And I didn't go to school for acting.
00:42:17I don't have...
00:42:18I don't know how to do this job either.
00:42:20And so I spent a lot of time...
00:42:22I spent nine months creating that character and living that character.
00:42:25And then I was back at home, and I didn't know how to exist in the world anymore.
00:42:30And it was really scary.
00:42:31And so it took me a long time to be able to just do basic things that I used to enjoy
00:42:36in my life.
00:42:37And so after that, it was like five years of purposely picking jobs where I felt like
00:42:42it was safe for me to try out new techniques.
00:42:45It was safe for me to try and figure out, okay, how can I do things so that I go home and
00:42:49feel just a little bit better and slowly start edging myself?
00:42:52And feeling like you.
00:42:53Yeah, yeah.
00:42:54Because it doesn't stop.
00:42:56It doesn't stop.
00:42:57And you hope that you have the grace of a line producer who has scheduled it to where
00:43:02there's moments where you can offload.
00:43:04Like, lessons in chemistry, I didn't have that so much, especially with a character that,
00:43:09like, won't let anybody see her emotions.
00:43:11So I eventually just was like, you have to put a pop-up tent on set, and that's, like,
00:43:15where I'm going to go cry.
00:43:16Because sometimes it feels so intense, and you have everyone going, like, don't cry still.
00:43:21Don't cry.
00:43:22And you're like, I can't.
00:43:23You know, whatever you see on camera, which is, like, could be a 60-second scene, I've
00:43:27been doing for three days, you know?
00:43:28I can't do it anymore.
00:43:29And so you have to find ways to learn how to offload.
00:43:33You have to find what works for you.
00:43:36But to me, that's always been the biggest challenge.
00:43:38And what keeps me going.
00:43:41Yeah, I'm drinking.
00:43:42Everyone got their things.
00:43:43Yeah, me too.
00:43:44But that's always been the thing, I'd say for myself, that has kept me from doing, like,
00:43:47dramatic roles in that way.
00:43:49And I feel like I'm just at the point where I feel like I could do it, where I feel like
00:43:54I have enough.
00:43:54I trust myself with the technique that I have now that I could do it.
00:43:57How did the rest of you, how do you decide sort of what pieces of you, the real you,
00:44:02to share?
00:44:02I'm going to turn to you because I feel like we're in this moment where I hear as much of you
00:44:07talking about your acting career as I do hearing you talk about your sort of struggles with
00:44:13menopause.
00:44:14And you do it with grace and humor.
00:44:17And I think I've heard you say that was something that you were nervous about initially talking
00:44:22about publicly.
00:44:23How do you decide when so much of you, you want to keep private, you want to keep guarded,
00:44:29that you decide this is going to be the thing I share?
00:44:32And I think a lot of you have done this in different ways.
00:44:35Yeah.
00:44:35I mean, you know, I started late also by Hollywood standards, I would say.
00:44:41I didn't try to start late.
00:44:44It just wasn't hired for a long time.
00:44:47But I started getting work in my late, well, Mulholland Drive was 29 and then it sat on a
00:44:54shelf and then it was like 31 when I finally launched.
00:44:57And I was told also it's going to be over by 40, so work, work, work.
00:45:05And then, unfortunately for me, when I was at the precipice of wanting to start a family,
00:45:11I was 36, I was told I was close to menopause.
00:45:15And so I went into this frantic panic, a lot of shame and fear.
00:45:20And mostly, for whatever reason, I'm skipping through a lot, I was able to have children
00:45:27but then went straight into menopause, hardcore symptoms in my early 40s after my second child
00:45:34and still felt very ashamed and felt like if I ever dared to mention that word, I would
00:45:40be branded as, you know, redundant, finished, off to pasture, go to the sidelines.
00:45:47You're not sexy.
00:45:48There's no way you can act anymore.
00:45:49That's, you know, it'd be career suicide to bring that into the room.
00:45:55But then I was like, this makes no sense.
00:45:57We're half the population.
00:46:00Everybody's going to go into menopause at some point or another.
00:46:04Why shouldn't we be talking about it?
00:46:06And when you learn about the symptoms and how long they can go on for, why can't we find
00:46:12the support?
00:46:13Why can't?
00:46:13And it's not just the physiological support you need.
00:46:16It's the emotional support, like families break down.
00:46:19The workplace stuff happens, you know, like people get afraid they're going to get phased
00:46:24out or, you know, and you've got your aging family members.
00:46:28You've got a lot of things that are making you vulnerable at that point.
00:46:32And then have that to collide with, you know, a self that you no longer know anymore and
00:46:38not sure that is going to ever return was just fascinating to me that it wasn't an available
00:46:45discussion.
00:46:46So I just went, fuck this.
00:46:48Like, let's just talk about it.
00:46:50And in terms of my career, I felt like, well, if it spooks everyone, that's a bummer.
00:46:58But, you know, hopefully it actually does the opposite and elongates the career because,
00:47:04you know, someone's got to play the old lady.
00:47:06And I think, you know, the longer the life, the richer the stories.
00:47:11And there's lots to examine.
00:47:13We need to, you know, do whatever we can to expand the female story and every point.
00:47:21That goes back to your earlier question.
00:47:22What would you have loved, your earlier self, for someone to prepare you for?
00:47:25Yeah.
00:47:26That would have been a nice bit of information.
00:47:28Yeah.
00:47:29Because it's like you go into it sort of blindly, like what some alien is taking over your body.
00:47:34Yes.
00:47:35Yeah.
00:47:35And it doesn't make sense.
00:47:37Yeah.
00:47:37So, and it affects you and your life and in your work.
00:47:40Sure.
00:47:41That would have been a good piece of information.
00:47:44Yeah.
00:47:44Yeah.
00:47:44Yeah.
00:47:45Shared.
00:47:46So for your generation.
00:47:48It's going to happen to you too.
00:47:50Of course it's coming for you.
00:47:52And we don't have to play just the cranky old scary ladies anymore.
00:47:57We can.
00:47:58Yeah.
00:47:59You like those roles?
00:48:00All the cranky scary ladies.
00:48:01You're welcome.
00:48:02Send those your way.
00:48:03I'll play them too, but like we can also do other things, you know, without that sort of ridiculousness.
00:48:09But it is, I mean, you just sort of decide what it is you're going to let people in on.
00:48:13And in your case, it was, there was something for all to gain from that.
00:48:17But whether it is, you know, challenges with fertility, whether it is, you know, why you got a divorce.
00:48:25I mean, these are things that I feel like some of you are talking about in a way that perhaps you weren't before.
00:48:33Because the older you get, the more fuck it you get.
00:48:36You kids.
00:48:36Yeah, exactly.
00:48:37You just do.
00:48:38It's true.
00:48:39You just do.
00:48:39It's very true.
00:48:40The boundaries are important.
00:48:42And that is one of the things that I talk about with younger actors is how to survive intact, you know.
00:48:48And not just, not just your career intact, but emotionally and psychologically, how to be, how to be a strong person and to care about yourself enough to set boundaries so that you're not eating up.
00:49:01It's not sustainable.
00:49:01Yeah.
00:49:02Because it's a lot being asked of you.
00:49:04Yeah.
00:49:05Who are the people in this industry who have sort of helped you, guide you in some of those lonelier moments of this life?
00:49:12Toni Collette was like my first like hero mentor.
00:49:15Before I did, she was, I was just completely obsessed with her when I was homeschooling myself, like dreaming of being an actress.
00:49:26And then like my first like, I'd say like true job, I was 18 and it was to play her daughter and it felt like destiny and so scary.
00:49:36Like the mix of all the good things, like, oh, I'm going to be so challenged and I'm so scared.
00:49:40And luckily I had auditioned for like 10 years at that point.
00:49:44And I was like a professional auditioner, but like didn't really have a chance.
00:49:48So I was prepared.
00:49:49I was as prepared as I could be.
00:49:50And I got to have three years with her.
00:49:52And so that became like massively important.
00:49:55And then over the years, like going out of my way to make friends with other women in the industry, because it started going like, hey, there's always usually just like one woman on a job.
00:50:05I was always the only one.
00:50:06And you go like, oh, yeah, I don't even know.
00:50:09Like there's things that make me uncomfortable or things that I'd like to change or things I'd like to laugh about.
00:50:13Yep.
00:50:13And connecting with other women in the industry has been like a game changer for me, because you get to swap stories and understand and connect.
00:50:22And it's just the greatest.
00:50:24It's the best.
00:50:25It's so true.
00:50:25It's so true.
00:50:26Relying on your female co-stars and being able to reach out and just say, and not having to do with the work, but just like life.
00:50:33I mean, we did that movie in Hawaii.
00:50:36You helped me out on a lot of really hard things I was going through, you know, and just to have that community.
00:50:41It's very helpful.
00:50:42Do you feel like you've found that yet?
00:50:44Are there people who are guiding you along?
00:50:49Or have we just found them?
00:50:50Are these six women about to be them?
00:50:52I think I really found them.
00:50:54I've not had enough experience to be like my journey and like this person has helped me so much.
00:51:01It's like little bits of advice from a lot of my co-stars and a lot of people behind the scene.
00:51:09But I actually have a question because now you do meet so many female people on set.
00:51:18But growing up in the industry, like how was that for you?
00:51:22I never saw another female face except for the lady who played my mom and possibly the makeup or hair.
00:51:28But in the old days, those were also men.
00:51:31But then how do you navigate?
00:51:33Well, you know, I had these wonderful brothers and fathers and I always stop and I'm always grateful for them because they taught me the lessons of film sets.
00:51:44You know, they were like, you know, you write thank you notes or this is how we do the focus.
00:51:48But somehow I felt like those brothers and fathers and they were a family.
00:51:53And then little by little as women came on to movie sets, it was just this fantastic thing.
00:51:58There would be one other female person on set and then there would be two and then maybe three.
00:52:03And I think that that kept growing except there were never female directors.
00:52:08See, I met Jane Campion.
00:52:10Yeah, you're lucky you did that.
00:52:12So I was like, wow.
00:52:14And she was the star of her film school.
00:52:17Yeah.
00:52:18So we'd all go and go, oh, my God, did you see?
00:52:21You'd go and see their student films because they would show their films at the end of the year or halfway through the year.
00:52:28And she was the one.
00:52:31You'd see her.
00:52:32Amazing.
00:52:32Yeah.
00:52:33There'd be like girls on story and then going and auditioning for her.
00:52:38And she was rigorous.
00:52:39I mean, so it was a powerful woman too.
00:52:42It wasn't a wallflower woman.
00:52:43And it was, she was, she was right there and everyone was, would do what she said.
00:52:50So it was a great role model.
00:52:52And there is this sort of misconception that somehow female actresses are like, they're at each other.
00:52:58They don't like each other.
00:52:59Whatever.
00:53:00I mean, I've, even this year of going to the various events and things, it always just feels so nice because the women really feel like they want each other to succeed.
00:53:09I've never had one moment where I ever felt that there was a woman who didn't want me to succeed.
00:53:13And we all interface with each other.
00:53:15So, Nicole, I took over from a movie that you had to leave.
00:53:17Yeah.
00:53:19I was in a really bad way.
00:53:22And I was like, I'm having a breakdown.
00:53:25We are all.
00:53:25And Jodie took over.
00:53:28Thank the Lord.
00:53:30But we all care about each other in a way.
00:53:33That's so true.
00:53:34So that whole, I almost feel like it's some guy's, guy had this idea that women just want to break each other down.
00:53:42And that just hasn't been my experience.
00:53:45It's also the energy that you set.
00:53:47Because if you go in and go, it's okay.
00:53:50If you're told you're safe, it's okay, and whatever emotions you're feeling, and you can feel jealous, you can feel these things, that's normal.
00:54:01We'll work through it together.
00:54:02I grew up with sisters and a very strong feminine energy in the house.
00:54:07So, it was always like, yeah, there's a gamut of emotions here, but you're allowed to feel them, and we're going to work through them together.
00:54:16But reach out, because we're here to help.
00:54:18That's a gift.
00:54:19That is truly a gift to be able to have that.
00:54:21I mean, definitely, Nick has been a guiding force, and this is a, sorry to age us, but a 40-year friendship.
00:54:30Yeah.
00:54:31Yeah.
00:54:32Amazing.
00:54:32You know, ups and downs.
00:54:34Did not start in acting, started.
00:54:35No.
00:54:36Down at the pub.
00:54:39We'll keep going, keep going.
00:54:44Everything.
00:54:45But, and if the mentors aren't there available on the set, or, you know, watching our mentors, and if I can gush a little bit, Jodi.
00:54:54Yes.
00:54:55I mean, watching you.
00:54:57I mean, there were lots before you, and we're only a few years apart, but just your career was obviously so underway for such a long time, and you changed my life.
00:55:09What the fuck?
00:55:09And your performances, like, there's, I still remember, like, a cue that, I, oh, I mean, I'm going to, how you, yeah.
00:55:18How did you do that?
00:55:19That's what's incredible, is that you're who you are as a human being today, and having started as a child.
00:55:24Yes, so, yeah.
00:55:25The generation before us kept telling us that things were just going to get worse for us, and you hit 40, and it's over.
00:55:30And I have to say, I have never been as happy as an actor as when I turned 60.
00:55:35That there's just some kind of contentedness about it not being all about me, and walking onto a set and saying, how may I serve you?
00:55:43How can my experience, or whatever my wisdom is, you know, how can I serve you?
00:55:47And bringing that to the table, not only is it more fun and more freeing, but it's also easy.
00:55:56It's super easy, because you're not filled with anxiety about the things that maybe younger people are filled with anxiety about, and you have a lot to learn from them.
00:56:05Did I read that you were done with doing leads, or, like, you just, did I?
00:56:10No, I just got bored with it.
00:56:11I think I got bored with it.
00:56:13Did you stop for a while and went to school?
00:56:15I never stopped when I went to school.
00:56:16I did six movies while I was in college.
00:56:19Oh, my God.
00:56:19I'm not sure they were very good.
00:56:21Oh, my God.
00:56:22She was lovely.
00:56:24But, yeah, I think that I learned so much also from new voices, you know, from seeing your character, for example, in Shogun, but, you know, seeing new characters with different voices that have now finally been given the freedom to air themselves.
00:56:37And I want to hear them, and I want to support them, and whatever wisdom I have about helping those voices, then I feel like it's just so much more fun than being the one person who's, you know, number one on the call sheet from beginning to end that has to carry the burden of the narrative, but also meaning that there are rules about how much you can give.
00:56:59Yeah.
00:57:00And you can change their narrative, too.
00:57:02And Jen's career.
00:57:03Let's talk about it.
00:57:04I wasn't a baby baby.
00:57:06No, but you have sustained an enormous, like, career success.
00:57:10I don't know how.
00:57:12It's a talent.
00:57:13It's called talent.
00:57:15So every time I get to sit, like, I'm sitting here, I was nervous.
00:57:19I mean, these are, I'll start to cry.
00:57:22But, you know, I get, I get, I'm motivated.
00:57:25I'm still here.
00:57:26We're still here.
00:57:27Yeah.
00:57:27Yeah.
00:57:27It's incredible.
00:57:28And by Sophia, too, you know, don't be terrorized by the English language.
00:57:32Who said the English language is the most important language?
00:57:35I can barely speak the English language.
00:57:38And there's so many stories to be told that haven't been told.
00:57:41It's a little bit more work, though.
00:57:42You do have to go more after it and not be scared.
00:57:46And, you know, you have to have a certain personality for that not to affect you, though.
00:57:51Right.
00:57:51Because it's, it's, it can be, you know, ridiculous.
00:57:56You know, that I.
00:57:57Well, you have to make it your superpower.
00:57:59Yeah.
00:57:59I made it my superpower.
00:58:00I was like, I sound like an idiot.
00:58:02I don't care.
00:58:03I'm going to play an idiot.
00:58:04It's fine.
00:58:05It's like.
00:58:06This is going to sound silly, but I promise you it is actually going to be revealing about
00:58:10what is the most used emoji on your phone.
00:58:18I can go first.
00:58:19Mine is an eye roll.
00:58:20What color heart?
00:58:21Red.
00:58:22Yeah.
00:58:22The red love heart.
00:58:23Yeah.
00:58:23And not, not the, the little one, the big one that's the, from the, um, playing.
00:58:28I'm the same.
00:58:29Yeah.
00:58:30I like it.
00:58:30It's more drastic.
00:58:31It's not shiny.
00:58:32Yeah.
00:58:33Yeah.
00:58:33Yeah.
00:58:34I don't even know what it is.
00:58:34It's the same.
00:58:36What about the rest of you?
00:58:37What do you do?
00:58:38I have.
00:58:39You do the kiss one.
00:58:41See, it's, this is, this is what we do.
00:58:42Kiss with a heart.
00:58:43Kiss with a heart.
00:58:43I do.
00:58:44I love the bozo.
00:58:45What's the bozo?
00:58:46The bozo.
00:58:46It's just like this crazy clown.
00:58:48Oh, the bozo clown.
00:58:49I don't really know what it means, but I put it on things anyway.
00:58:52I don't really know what it means.
00:58:53I like the one where the eyes are just like.
00:58:55Yeah, the rolling eyes.
00:58:56It's not the eye roll back.
00:58:58It's just so like, I don't know what the fuck is happening right now.
00:59:01Or, I forgot, and the other one, the eek one.
00:59:04Oh, yep.
00:59:05Oh, this.
00:59:05Yep.
00:59:06I like the one with the bad words.
00:59:08The bad words.
00:59:09Yep.
00:59:09Yep.
00:59:10See, this is revealing.
00:59:12What is that one?
00:59:13It's the bozo face with a cross face.
00:59:16I like the crying and laughing.
00:59:19Like the sideways guy?
00:59:20Yep.
00:59:21Yep.
00:59:21See, should we cheers and thank you all for being here.
00:59:25I wish it could go on much more.
00:59:27I think it goes so quickly.
00:59:28I know.
00:59:31You have to look at everybody's eyes for seven years or about six.
00:59:35Oh, my God.
00:59:35Oh, my God.
00:59:37Crazy people.
00:59:39I don't know about you, but I just love seeing women give each other their flowers.
00:59:43I mean, you get a rose.
00:59:44You get a rose.
00:59:45You, everybody gets a rose.
00:59:47I'm with you, Jen.
00:59:48This has been a motivating and inspiring conversation.
00:59:51Until next time, I am Yvonne Orji, and this is Off Script with The Hollywood Reporter.
00:59:56We'll see you next time.
00:59:56Bye-bye.
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