In this special report, experts discuss the severe health and policy implications of India's air pollution crisis. A senior pulmonologist reveals a shocking statistic: 'In Delhi NCR alone, the life expectancy has been reduced by 11.9 years.' The panel debates the effectiveness of electric vehicles versus public transport. While one expert emphasizes the need for a 'strong regulatory mandate' for electrification, another argues that the government focuses on symptoms like cloud seeding rather than sources. The discussion highlights the urgent need for a coordinated five-year action plan.
00:00What impact does it actually have on the lives of citizens?
00:04I'm putting certain facts out, air pollution's impact on health.
00:08Dr. Vivek Nangya, Head Pulmonology, Max Health Care.
00:11You tell us, how serious is the impact of this across this country?
00:17If we breathe foul air, what does it do to our lifespan, to our health?
00:22So, Raghadi, we've known about the air pollution and its impact on our health for many, many decades now.
00:27You know, it was way back in 1950s when the most infamous London smog happened,
00:31where in just four days' time, there were about 12,000 deaths and a lack of people falling sick
00:36because of the poor air quality around them.
00:38Now, as we have transitioned over the years, you know, Industrial Revolution then,
00:42and now in India, it is still continuing, I guess, as far as urbanization is concerned.
00:47In 2015, globally, there were about 9 million deaths.
00:50That is, one in six deaths were accountable only because of the poor air quality,
00:55because of the air pollution.
00:57This was three times…
00:58Repeat those figures for us, doctor. Repeat those figures.
01:03So, in 2015, globally, there were 9 million deaths.
01:06That is, one in six deaths, which was attributed to the poor air quality.
01:11And this figure is actually three times higher than the total number of deaths caused by AIDS,
01:16malaria, and tuberculosis all put together.
01:18So, that means we have a national program for TB, AIDS, as well as for malaria in our country.
01:24But unfortunately, for poor air quality, we have no national program at all.
01:29According to the 2019 figure, there were 1.6 million deaths in India alone because of air pollution.
01:36And in 2023, they have labelled it as the second highest risk factor to human life for adults after blood pressure,
01:48high blood pressure, and in children after malnutrition.
01:51So, again, for malnutrition, there's a national program.
01:54But for air quality, we have no national program yet.
01:57So, what does it do? It shortens lives? Affects your lung? What does it actually do?
02:03You know, overall, if you see, there's been a…
02:05I mean, there are studies which have shown that overall in our country,
02:08the life expectancy has gone down by five years because of air pollution.
02:12In Delhi itself, Delhi NCR alone, the life expectancy has been reduced by 11.9 years.
02:18And this is a scientific study which was published in 2023.
02:22So, we've known about it for years.
02:24So, what happens actually is, you know, especially the PM2.5 particle in a smaller size particle
02:30is the particle which actually goes directly into your lungs, from the lungs into the bloodstream.
02:34It triggers off an inflammatory cascade which then travels to the various parts of the body,
02:39which include your heart, your brain, your kidneys, your joints, your pancreas.
02:44So, now we are getting to see so many diseases that are getting linked to the air pollution.
02:49You know, starting from…
02:50And this is children, infants, as well as senior citizens, presumably, you know,
02:55all of them breathing that same air.
02:57So, they are all equally affected. Am I correct?
03:00So, right from the time when the child is still in a womb, you know, in a pregnant lady,
03:04pregnant ladies are more vulnerable to developing problems because of air pollution.
03:07A child who is born could have poor lung functions.
03:11It could be an intrauterine growth retardation, premature births, premature deaths.
03:16Then, as the child starts to grow, they start developing asthma at a very early stage.
03:20There is a study which has shown that 40% of the children from Delhi NCR had poorer lung functions
03:26or impaired lung functions as compared to children in southern India.
03:31Of course, southern India study was also not very good.
03:34I mean, the functions were poor there as well.
03:36But in Delhi, they were certainly worse.
03:39You are almost making all of us say, let's leave the national capital, find other places to live.
03:44I'm glad that you are shocking us because the only way at times that people will realize what
03:49will force more accountability from their government is when they are alarmed by
03:53some of the numbers that you've thrown.
03:55I'm going to come back to you, doctor, in a moment, but I want to then raise solutions.
03:59Let's be very clear. We know the problems.
04:01Let's start one solution after the other.
04:04Anumita, you've done a lot of work on mobility.
04:06The government now, only the other day, said they are going to incentivize people to move to e-vehicles.
04:15They believe that the EV revolution is here.
04:18Do you believe it's here?
04:19Because I keep hearing mixed signals on that.
04:22And how do you incentivize people to move to EVs?
04:27Or is it just a nice statement to make?
04:31No. So, electrification and zero tailpipe emission is certainly the way to go.
04:37But what has happened so far, so as of today, government of India has come up with several incentive programs,
04:45demand incentive programs, to give incentive to people to buy EVs.
04:49And that has really been the prime focus on building the market.
04:54But even after five years now, if you look at the overall electrification in the country,
04:59there is just about 5% of the new vehicle sales.
05:03And if you are in Delhi, then it's a little better.
05:06It is about 13%.
05:08But now, at this crossroad, when the EV market has begun to take off, still very nascent.
05:14But what will really be the game changer is not so much the reliance on demand incentive,
05:21because that is unaffordable for most governments.
05:24They can't keep on giving incentive year after year.
05:27But what will really stimulate the market is to have a very strong regulatory mandate, standards, and infrastructure.
05:37So, in fact, today what is very interesting, the personal car market, if you look at it,
05:43it has begun to electrify without incentive, because incentives, and rightly so,
05:50are given for public transport, for buses, for commercial vehicles, and for the local paratransit.
05:57So, therefore, what we are really looking for is that how do you speed up?
06:02Now, there are a lot of policies...
06:03Because there's still a fraction.
06:04Correct me if I'm wrong.
06:05Very small fraction.
06:06It's a small fraction.
06:08I mean, when I look at the numbers, vehicular emissions account for 39% of what makes Delhi choke,
06:15according to one figure.
06:15Exactly.
06:16And most of the...
06:17And a small fraction are EVs.
06:20So, I mean, it's going to take years for us to resolve, you know, to tackle the problem of vehicular emissions.
06:27But if you, Rajdeep, if you recall our experience with CNG in Delhi, when a very clear mandate and a timeline was given,
06:38that within three years, all buses and local commercial vehicles will have to move to CNG.
06:44And that happened even when the country was not producing a single CNG bus then.
06:50We need to recreate that kind of a strategy, that how do you drive and accelerate?
06:57And there's several levers.
06:59You can have fuel efficiency standards that will demand electrification.
07:03You require infrastructure, public charging infrastructure, and home charging facilities.
07:10And you need to support the whole other transit, the several mechanisms that are in place today.
07:16But we need the intent, we need the will to do that.
07:21You know, when I look at...
07:22You know, when you all keep saying will, I just look at some of the numbers.
07:26A parliamentary panel found that 858 crores allocated for pollution control in the 2024-25 budget was unutilized
07:35due to delays in approval from the Union Environment Ministry.
07:40Now, when I look at those numbers, that's where the will comes from.
07:43Are you going to prioritize this issue?
07:45You know, Pawan, every year in November, I hear farmers of Punjab being blamed.
07:51There's trouble burning.
07:52Then when I look at the actual numbers, it shows that farm fires account for about 4% of what makes a city choke.
08:01Far higher, vehicular emissions, industrial pollution, and dust.
08:06These are the top three.
08:07And yet, I don't hear enough spoken about them.
08:10Do you believe we also need to recognize?
08:12There needs to be a realization.
08:13Yes, you need to tackle the problem of farm fires, surely.
08:17Stubble burning at the time.
08:18But is that where your attention should be when you look at solving the problems?
08:22Rajdeep, I will say I think we need to move away from our obsession for short-term measures, right?
08:29And I think what we need right now, specifically in NCR, is a five-year action plan with specific measurable targets sector-wise.
08:39Because I think without a target that what we are going to reduce, how we are going to reduce is known.
08:44But I think what we are going to reduce, time-bound, is very, very, very critical.
08:49So, say we are talking about in the next five years, what we are going to do in transport sector, in industry sector, in construction.
08:58I think we really have the numbers.
09:00We have the solutions.
09:01What we need is the execution plan.
09:04And this, we have to hold different departments accountable across NCR.
09:09We need a coordinated action in sync.
09:11Because we simply can't say that I'll just do only industrial, I'll not do transport.
09:16I think we clearly know what needs to happen sector by sector.
09:20We need the actors to really execute it.
09:22You know, can I look at an example, Vimlendu, which has been so successful, which is Beijing.
09:28It's always thrown as an example of what can be done.
09:31China got it right there.
09:33It was, Beijing was one of the most polluted cities at the turn of the century.
09:37And eventually, today, they've leaked the problem.
09:39But it is an authoritarian regime where you can enforce from the top.
09:43In India, that might be much more difficult.
09:44How do you drive, how do you drive this five-year campaign, this clean air campaign in a country like India?
09:52Where would you start?
09:55So, I'll take from what Pawan and Anumita actually said.
09:58So, you need to understand one thing.
09:59The first time that the Prime Minister's office actually intervened or made a statement with regard to air pollution
10:04was with regard to private vehicles and EVs.
10:07We need to understand one thing very, very clear.
10:10Private vehicles of one kind can't be replaced by private vehicles of another kind.
10:15If we really need to solve this problem, we will have to look at public transport.
10:20And that's where the problem is.
10:22So, what did China do?
10:22What did China do?
10:23What did tell our viewers?
10:25What did China do?
10:25China did exactly that, Rajli.
10:26China did exactly that in terms of Beijing.
10:29First of all, one of the things that it did, it actually strengthened its public transport infrastructure in this regime.
10:36Second thing that it did, which I mentioned earlier, the coal thermal power plants were actually moved out of the immediate periphery of Beijing.
10:43Third thing that it did, that the emissions, of course, we are talking about 7% to 8% or perhaps 10% emissions of Delhi NCR that happens from industries in that sense.
10:51They moved those industries outside the immediate periphery or so-called air catchment or air shed in that sense.
11:00So, we need to look at those harsh decisions, which, of course, came at the cost of the economy, were taken.
11:07So, public transport, your thermal power plants, your emission, of course, construction and demolition dust and roadside dust wasn't such a big thing in this case study of Beijing that we're talking about.
11:18And also, one of the things that Beijing did, very, very importantly, and that's the fundamental of air quality governance, is that it did not really get obsessed with symptoms.
11:29It actually went to the source.
11:31So, you know, what we are actually looking at last 10 years of India's governance or 10 or 15 or perhaps 20 years of air quality governance in India, we only look at symptoms.
11:40Give me an example.
11:40And we only look at it from a period of...
11:42Give me an example.
11:44Sorry?
11:45Give me an example.
11:46When you say we look at symptoms...
11:47So, for example, one of the things that we are actually doing right now, one of the things that we are actually doing in bad governance of air quality is data manipulation.
11:56So, right now, for example, you are not wearing a mask.
11:59Perhaps you are in the studio.
12:00I'm not wearing a mask because I'm in Varanasi, where air quality is 357.
12:07In Noida, your air quality is 350.
12:09But we have normalized this 350 air quality, where countries like Thailand actually almost shut down at AQIF 200.
12:20So, it's Chang'e Sea at 350.
12:22It's OK at 450.
12:25And, you know, if your private monitor is telling you 1200, it's still fine.
12:28So, that's the problem that we're talking about.
12:30So, now, in terms of where are we looking at only symptoms, sprinkling water or cloud seeding.
12:38Imagine for 16 days, the headline management in terms of air quality governance was with regard to cloud seeding.
12:44Where operation was successful, the patient died.
12:47In the sense, cloud seeding was successful, but rain didn't really happen.
12:51And there's no evidence from anywhere in the world where cloud seeding has actually worked.
12:56And imagine 1,500 square kilometer area that we actually have of Delhi NCR, where one square kilometer costs almost 50 lakhs.
13:03How many such cloud seeding events?
13:06And the minister, environment minister said he wants it every two days because Delhi's air quality is very poor, almost 200 days, which is every alternate day.
13:16And when I interviewed him, he was almost celebrating when it went from very poor to poor.
13:21Which clearly shows, as you said, the chalta hai.
13:24And then imagine, I was there, Rajdeep, yesterday at Anand Bihar, where your air, and which is one of the most polluted areas, where the air quality monitor is under a tree.
13:3420 meters from there is a voodoo machine, endorsed by the Supreme Court, called Spock Tower, and water sprinkled all through.
13:42And then the air quality is okay, and CAQM, so-called body, and the only quasi-judicial body.
13:50See, I was coughing in Gurgaon and coughing in Varanasi as well.
13:53Okay.
13:53You know, it's interesting you've chosen to be in Varanasi, which is the prime minister's constituency, and you're coughing there.
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