00:00Dr. Nangia, while we are getting the environmentalists to give us potential solutions,
00:06should there be now a massive public health awareness campaign as well?
00:10Because people need to know also the dangers of what's happening.
00:14Because one of the questions I'm posing is,
00:17what will it take for the environment to become a political issue?
00:21In a country like India, it's only at the end of the day,
00:23if there are votes to be had or lost,
00:26on whether you care for the environment or don't care.
00:28Do you believe that's possible?
00:30A widespread public health awareness campaign of what poor air can do to our lives?
00:37Yeah, Rajdeep, absolutely. I fully agree with you.
00:39Now is the time when we have to have a mass movement
00:41that has to actually be in the form of public awareness
00:44about how air pollution is actually harming our lungs.
00:47Not only our lungs, but our entire health and reducing our life spines as well.
00:51While we have been aware about it,
00:53but I think somewhere in the back of my mind, we tend to slip it very often.
00:57You know, there are people who still come to us in the OPD saying,
00:59Doc, why should I quit smoking?
01:01As it is, we are breathing such bad air outside.
01:04So even if I continue smoking, how does it harm us?
01:06You know, what they don't realize is that with every PM 2.5 particle size
01:11in the environment around 25 mics is equivalent to one cigarette in a day.
01:16So if the PM 2.5 concentration is around 200 plus,
01:19so eight cigarettes, there you go completely.
01:21In a day, you breathe eight cigarettes in a day.
01:25So, you know, that is the kind of harm that we are doing to ourselves.
01:28Of course, the awareness is rising now,
01:31especially because what used to be called a silent invisible killer
01:34is now visible to us also.
01:36So we do see people talking about it.
01:39Like earlier times, earlier years when people come to us
01:42during this time of the year with cough, cold, breathlessness,
01:44you would have to tell them that, you know,
01:46it's because of the air pollution outside.
01:47Now when they come to us, they come to us saying that
01:50ever since the air quality has dropped,
01:52since then the symptoms started.
01:54Or since Diwali, the symptoms have actually worsened.
01:57So the awareness is there, but I think it's a lack of will
02:00and a lack of, I think they all need to be pushed a little
02:03to convert it into a mass movement.
02:05You know, as I end in the last couple of minutes,
02:07I want 30 seconds to each of you.
02:09What would it take, Anumita, to make this a political issue?
02:12I know all of you have done a lot of work on the environment
02:14for a long time, long before it became even fashionable
02:17to have shows like this on it.
02:19But what will it take?
02:20What will it take, according to you,
02:22to make this a political issue?
02:23A quick answer.
02:25It's very clear.
02:26So while we need massive campaigns,
02:28awareness campaigns regarding the problem,
02:30but at the same time, I think we need even stronger campaign
02:34to build public understanding of the solution
02:36so that they can really make the political demand.
02:39You know, we talk about air pollution
02:41and running away from Delhi,
02:42but when it comes to solutions,
02:44we don't create that much demand for the movie,
02:47I want my public transport infrastructure to work
02:50when the government is giving me flyover after flyover.
02:53You know, so it's very important to deepen the understanding
02:57because the solutions are getting increasingly complex.
03:01And we don't want middle-class environmentalism only,
03:04that I can be fine with my air purifier kind of solution.
03:07I need hard decision, difficult, inconvenient decision,
03:11for that to build public support to change the politics around the solutions
03:16is going to be very critical.
03:18You know, because that's the issue that I often hear.
03:21And Pawan, you can take this and then Vimlendu very quickly,
03:24that, you know, this is a middle-class environment,
03:26this is an upper-middle-class issue,
03:28that the poor have far too many issues of Roti, Kapna, Makaan, Rosegaar
03:32to worry about Hava.
03:34How do you respond to those who will tell you this, Pawan,
03:37that, you know, that it doesn't make that much of a difference
03:41to the average person of this country?
03:44Not at all, because they are the ones who are totally getting impacted, right?
03:47They don't have purifiers.
03:49They are the ones actually more exposed.
03:51So I would really say that they are actually more vulnerable
03:53to actually what is happening,
03:55what many of us are actually leaving them with the kind of quality of air.
04:00See, Raj, we need to make difficult choices.
04:02And this is where I say that solutions are going to be difficult choices
04:07because maybe it will make certain class uncomfortable.
04:10And therefore, I think deepening that awareness
04:12with citizens and public in general would be so critical
04:16because you are talking about regulations, about mandates,
04:19about the need to change behavior,
04:21and all this would be maybe unpopular choices.
04:24But that's where I think creating not just understanding of the problem,
04:28but the solution is extremely important
04:30because we need to make people part of the solution process,
04:33and that is where then they are able to ask, you know,
04:36sustainable solutions, right, to get clean air.
04:38So that's how I think we'll be able to really address this.
04:41That's from clean air to clean water as well,
04:43because remember, many of the poor in particular suffer the worst
04:48because of the kind of water that they end up bringing.
04:51But, you know, Vimalindu,
04:52you're in the Prime Minister's constituency of Varanasi.
04:54I saw you the other day with Rahul Gandhi in a conversation.
04:58You know, this is an issue that should cut across the political divide.
05:04The idea should be that Mr. Gandhi and the Prime Minister
05:06should come together along with Chief Ministers from different parties
05:09and have a national policy for ensuring clean air.
05:14Do you agree with me when I say that,
05:16that this issue is not to be seen through a political lens?
05:20Absolutely, Rajdeep.
05:21It should be every party's first political,
05:24first point in their manifesto.
05:26And as you asked the last question,
05:28with regard to it affects the poor the most.
05:31You know, it's not the same air that everyone breathes in Delhi.
05:34You need to understand that the air the Prime Minister breathes
05:37or the air Rahul Gandhi breathes or what you breathe
05:41and what someone in Sangam Bihar breathes
05:43or someone who is the subsea seller on the street is breathing
05:47is completely different.
05:48And so one is that there's different air quality for different strata of people.
05:53And then there's also different access to health care for different strata of people.
05:59Because if Dr. Saab is right, that it affects your lungs.
06:02If you have stunted lung growth and, you know,
06:04if you're asthmatic and you have arthritis and this, that and the other,
06:08then it means that it affects someone who's actually standing
06:10eight hours of the traffic signal, much, much more than with multiple air tenders going around
06:17in Delhi government and central government of air purifiers.
06:22And our Chief Justice, I think it's very, very important for us to also,
06:25as I know that you had a fantastic interview with the previous CGI,
06:30but imagine for several hearings, he's realized that it wasn't important.
06:35He, you know, someone like a Chief Justice of India doesn't even know what AQI is.
06:40The current Chief Justice of India is saying that let's do work from home.
06:44Who, how many people can actually do work from home in the sense,
06:47argue from home or do this virtual courtroom?
06:50Can a rickshawwala or a DTC driver or a traffic cop or,
06:53or many people do work from home.
06:55So, you know, when we look for solutions,
06:56we again look for solutions from, from a place of power
07:00and, and a different kind of equity and different kind of privilege.
07:04I take your point.
07:06I hope that there are the Chief, the current Chief Justice
07:08and the former Chief Justice are listening to you.
07:11We need real solutions, workable solutions, tangible solutions
07:15with a clear plan of action.
07:17For God's sake, let's create at least a five-year plan
07:20so that we don't have to do these debates every year
07:24for an air emergency.
07:25We need a clear, transparent plan prepared.
