- 2 hours ago
This special report dissects the severe air quality crisis gripping the nation, with a focus on Delhi NCR, where life expectancy has reportedly been reduced by nearly 12 years. Medical experts reveal alarming data, indicating that 40% of children in the region suffer from impaired lung functions, likening the act of breathing to smoking multiple cigarettes daily. The discussion highlights a failure of governance and a disconnect between policy and execution, with panelists arguing that short-term measures like cloud seeding are ineffective. Instead, they call for a comprehensive five-year action plan with sector-specific targets, a massive overhaul of public transport, and a shift to source-based governance. The program explores the challenges of transitioning to electric mobility and the urgent need for regulatory mandates to establish clean air as a fundamental right for all citizens.
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00:00I want to widen this debate and put some big questions now and get in more guests who've
00:05done a lot of work on the ground. What is the real reason for the worsening air quality across
00:10India? What impact is this worsening air pollution having on citizens' lives, especially the health
00:16factor? What is the solution to India's air emergency? Can centre and state governments
00:22escape responsibility and can they work together for once for God's sake? And will air pollution
00:27ever become a major political issue in India? Joining me now is Vimlendu Jai. He's been
00:33working on the environment for years. Anumita Roy Choudhury, Executive Director of the Centre
00:38for Science and Environment joins me. Pawan Mulukutla is Executive Program Director, Integrated
00:46Transport, Clean Air and Hydrogen, WRI India. Dr. Vivek Nangya is VC and Head Pulmology at
00:53Max Healthcare, one of the leading pulmonologists in the country. So I appreciate all of you
00:58joining us. Let's turn question by question and I want to ask you all this. Why are our
01:03cities, Vimlendu Jai, so polluted? When I look at the numbers and I'm going to put all
01:08those numbers, the worst polluted cities, some of them are in India, Noida, Greater Noida,
01:13Delhi, Manesar, Ghaziabad. But we are seeing this now increasing pollution levels across the
01:18country. Why? So Radheep, today I'm actually in Varanasi and the government monitors are showing
01:26me 197 and the private monitors are showing me 356 or and you know in one hour it actually turned
01:34to 376. The entire area or entire country, by the way 90% of India's air is poor, very poor and NCR
01:45of course gets into severe and severe plus category in these three, four months. One of the reasons
01:50why we are one of the most polluted countries of the world or most polluted cities of the world
01:56actually are the list that you actually make of 100 most polluted cities of the world. We are
02:01almost like 75% of those cities belong to our country. Why? Why? It's because we do not prioritize,
02:11we've actually prioritized our development so much. We haven't really looked at urban environment or for
02:17that matter rural environment, there's not even measurement. We don't even measure what rural
02:21India's AQI index is. And therefore we, you know, from industrialization to urbanization
02:29to really looking at our transport regime, we haven't prioritized public health as number one issue.
02:36We've only selectively looked at development parameters and GDP parameters as measuring the
02:44progress of a country. And we don't even relate to the fact that imagine if there's a sick country
02:49and there's a rich country, these two can't go hand in hand. You can't have a rich nation,
02:55second most rich nation of the world or third top or whatever, 5 trillion or 10 trillion.
03:00And then if every second child actually has a stunted lung growth, what kind of a nation are we
03:05actually building? So lack of political will. You're saying lack of political will,
03:10we've never prioritized it. I'll come to the impact on health in a moment. But Anumita,
03:15the first big question I pose, why? Is it, do we lay the blame solely on governments and say that
03:22they've been unaccountable, they've not prioritized it, there's no political will out there? Is that
03:27the sole reason in your view why this problem gets worse by the year?
03:30It's very important to understand that why. And it's very clear that the whole development
03:36trajectory right now and the urban growth that is happening, one clearly because of the energy mix
03:43that is in our industry, in households and in the transport sector. So we are urbanizing,
03:49we are motorizing, we are industrializing when the quality of the fuel that we are using,
03:54the technology level of emission controls that we are applying are very, we are behind, we are lagging
04:01behind. The technology ladder, we are really far behind. And we are not quickly catching up with the best
04:08that is clean and going to give us the zero emission transition. That's one. Second, and in this,
04:15I would really like to say that while the industrial energy and the transport energy certainly requires
04:21very quick transition. But the biggest challenge in India today is the household energy, where you
04:27still have large number of poor households with no access to clean fuel, still burning solid fuels for
04:33cooking, for heating. And that's huge amount of pollution, which is an equity issue that's fouling up
04:39their health and also our environment. The second reason is the lack of circularity when we are growing
04:46as consumers in cities. We are generating huge amount of waste today, but with no infrastructure
04:52to recover that waste, to segregate waste and then recover resource out of that waste. So the waste that
05:00is dumped, we burn that all the time. And the third is the whole mobility crisis. So we are urbanizing,
05:07growing and therefore the need to travel is growing, but then there is no sustainable options for us.
05:15So basically, the government is telling us that you self-organize your own mobility. You buy your car,
05:22you buy your two-wheeler, and I'm not going to invest in the public transport that you require.
05:28And then the fourth is the whole construction boom, right? What Dia was saying about in Mumbai,
05:34that everywhere, the whole construction boom that has taken off, making huge demand on material and mining.
05:41So just understand the complexity. It is just the development trajectory. And therefore,
05:46the government who had to set the terms of that growth with the clean matrix, that happened.
05:54Okay. So it seems at the end of the day, it's coming to the door of the government.
05:59Pavan Mulukutla, do you agree with that? Is it solely to be left at the door of the government?
06:07Is it that there hasn't been enough awareness all these years? Suddenly now,
06:11at least there is a conversation about it, which was not there for several years,
06:16to be late, purely at the door of the environment ministry for their inability to frame,
06:21let's say, a comprehensive policy for mobility, for example, work with transport across the country.
06:31Is that the problem? Or is it that just there isn't enough awareness?
06:36I think, Rajdeep, it's both, right? We solely can't say that it's only government,
06:42because I totally agree we need very strong regulations, we need very strong norms,
06:47and we have very poor execution strategy in place. But I think making people part of this,
06:53you know, other day, I was taking a taxi in Delhi. And, you know, I was just chatting with this
06:59driver and he said, Sir, you know, it's like the mountains, it's like mountains, it's so good.
07:05Even the awareness there is so lacking that, you know, we really need to make this people as part of
07:11this campaign, this movement, because we are talking about growth. But how do we achieve the growth as
07:17a green growth? You know, totally echoing what Anumita was saying, right? We need to look sector by
07:22sector. We are aware that what's happening in emission by construction, in transport, in
07:27industry, in household. But where is the action? And the action is the continuation of...
07:31Who takes the action? You know, the courts, for example, we've seen the courts, for example,
07:36not being, many believe, take one step forward and then take one step back. We've had it with
07:41green crackers this year. Now, when I spoke to the former Chief Justice of India, he said, look,
07:46that's the, we can pass an order. Execution has to be with governments. We,
07:52we need the law enforcement agencies to ensure that our orders are complied with. Look at
07:57coastal regulations. You come to Goa now. Coastal regulations have been violated in several
08:02parts of this country. So, is it about the failure to execute the orders that may be set
08:09in place, that on paper, everything is in place, but the execution is missing?
08:14No, absolutely, Rajiv. I think we need very strong execution strategy. We need coordinated action
08:21between different departments. I think there has to be a incentive and penalties for department
08:26officers because this is, cannot be just left. We are talking a situation of emergency and we have
08:33to work at a war footing level. This can't be that simply said that, okay, let's do, let it happen and
08:38we'll take action. I think we need accountability, but we also need to create buy-in with citizens
08:43because if you don't make citizens and people part of this movement, I think we are going to lose this
08:48effort because you talk about efficiency standards, then there is a resistance saying that, okay,
08:54we still want to use vehicles with better fuel efficiency. So, we really need to ensure that
08:59we create campaigns around people. We really ensure that there's strong regulations,
09:05but the enforcement has to be... I'm going to come to solutions in a moment. I'm going to also go
09:10to Dr. Nangia in a moment because I want him to, you know, we almost frighten our audiences into
09:15believing what impact does foul air have on our lives. But Vimlendu, you raised your hand very
09:20quickly on this why factor. Let's settle it once and for all. So, why are...
09:23So, no. Yeah. We'll come to solutions later.
09:26We've been talking about with regard to, you know, citizenry and others. We need to understand one
09:31thing, that we can't have private solution to public problems. At the end of the day, when we know
09:38that almost 50% or 40 to 50% of ambient air quality or ambient air pollution of Delhi is because of
09:47mobility sector, which CSE's report itself said, I think perhaps last year or something, then you and I can't
09:53buy a DTC bus. If, you know, 15, you know, power plants in 300 square kilometer radius don't follow the
10:02sulfur dioxide emission guidelines, then you and I can't do it. So, we need to understand one thing,
10:07that rather than putting it on citizenry and citizenship, we need to ask those tough questions
10:13of people who we elect to be our custodian, custodian of our air. So, why is our air bad rather than
10:21looking at many other factors and to look at the custodians of our air are irresponsible politicians
10:27who don't give any damn about about our health and linking environment, not just as a romance
10:34and a nuxal issue, rather a public health issue. Because imagine, and I'm sure Dr. Saab will talk about it.
10:43So, we need to, that's where I, I don't think we should search and search for private solution.
10:46I take your point. Let's, you know, there is only so much that citizens can do. Ultimately, the buck must stop
10:52with those whom we elect. Do they really care about the lives of citizens? Which brings me to my next big question.
10:58What impact does it actually have on the lives of citizens? I'm putting certain facts out.
11:04Air pollution's impact on health. Dr. Vivek Nangya, head pulmonology, Max Health. Can you tell us,
11:11how serious is the impact of this across this country? If we breathe foul air, what does it do to our lifespan, to our health?
11:21So, Rakti, we've known about the air pollution and its impact on our health for many, many decades now.
11:25You know, it was way back in 1950s when the most infamous London smog happened, where in just four days' time,
11:31there were about 12,000 deaths and a lack of people falling sick because of the poor air quality around them.
11:37Now, as we have transitioned over the years, you know, industrial revolution then and now in India,
11:42it is still continuing, I guess, as far as urbanization is concerned. In 2015, globally, there were about 9 million deaths.
11:48That is, one in six deaths were accountable only because of the poor air quality, because of the air pollution.
11:56This was three times…
11:56Repeat those figures for us, doctor. Repeat those figures.
12:01So, in 2015, globally, there were 9 million deaths. That is, one in six deaths which was attributed to the poor air quality.
12:08And this figure is actually three times higher than the total number of deaths caused by AIDS, malaria, and tuberculosis all put together.
12:17So, that means we have a national program for TB, AIDS, as well as for malaria in our country.
12:22But unfortunately, for poor air quality, we have no national program at all.
12:27According to the 2019 figure, there were 1.6 million deaths in India alone because of air pollution.
12:35And in 2023, they have labelled it as the second highest risk factor to human life for adults after blood pressure, high blood pressure, and in children after malnutrition.
12:50So, again, for malnutrition, there is a national program. But for air quality, we have no national program yet.
12:56So, what does it do? It shortens lives, affects your lung? What does it actually do?
13:00So, you know, overall, if you see, there has been a, I mean, there are studies which have shown that overall in our country,
13:06the life expectancy has gone down by five years because of air pollution.
13:11In Delhi itself, Delhi NCR alone, the life expectancy has been reduced by 11.9 years.
13:17And this is a scientific study which was published in 2023.
13:21So, we have known about it for years.
13:22So, what happens actually is, you know, especially the PM2.5 particle and a smaller size particle is the particle which actually goes directly into your lungs.
13:31From the lungs into the bloodstream, it triggers off an inflammatory cascade which then travels to the various parts of the body,
13:37which include your heart, your brain, your kidneys, your joints, your pancreas.
13:42So, now we are getting to see so many diseases that are getting linked to the air pollution, you know, starting from…
13:48And this is across, and this is children, infants, as well as senior citizens, presumably, you know, all of them breathing that same air.
13:55So, they are all equally affected. Am I correct?
13:58So, right from the time when the child is still in a womb, you know, in a pregnant lady,
14:02pregnant ladies are more vulnerable to developing problems because of air pollution.
14:05A child who is born could have poor lung functions, it could be an intrauterine growth retardation, premature births, premature deaths.
14:14Then as the child starts to grow, they start developing asthma at a very early stage.
14:19There is a study which has shown that 40% of the children from Delhi NCR had poorer lung functions or impaired lung functions as compared to children in southern India.
14:30Of course, southern India study was also not very good.
14:32I mean, the functions were poor there as well, but in Delhi, they were certainly worse.
14:37You're almost making all of us say, let's leave the national capital, find other places to live.
14:43I'm glad that you are shocking us because the only way at times that people will realize what…
14:48will force more accountability from their government is when they are alarmed by some of the numbers that you've thrown.
14:54I'm going to come back to you, doctor, in a moment, but I want to then raise solutions.
14:57Let's be very clear. We know the problems.
15:00Let's start one solution after the other.
15:02Anumita, you've done a lot of work on mobility.
15:05The government now, only the other day said, they are going to create, incentivize people to move to e-vehicles.
15:14They believe that the e-vee revolution is here.
15:17Do you believe it's here?
15:18Because I keep hearing mixed signals on that.
15:21And how do you incentivize people to move to e-vees?
15:25Or is it just a nice statement to make?
15:30No. So, electrification and zero tailpipe emission is certainly the way to go.
15:36But what has happened so far…
15:38So, as of today, government of India has come up with several incentive programs, demand incentive programs, to give incentive to people to buy e-vees.
15:48And that has really been the prime focus of building the market.
15:52But even after five years now, if you look at the overall electrification in the country, then it's just about 5% of the new vehicle sales.
16:02And if you are in Delhi, then it's a little better.
16:05It is about 13%.
16:06But now, at this crossroad, when the e-vee market has begun to take off, still very nascent, but what will really be the game changer is not so much the reliance on demand incentive, because that is unaffordable for most governments.
16:22They can't keep on giving incentive year after year.
16:26But what will really stimulate the market is to have a very strong regulatory mandate, standards, and infrastructure.
16:34So, in fact, today, what is very interesting, that the personal car market, if you look at it, it has begun to electrify without incentive, because incentives, and rightly so, are given for public transport, for buses, for commercial vehicles, and for the local paratransit.
16:56So, therefore, what we are really looking for is that how do you speed up?
17:00Now, there are a lot of…
17:01Because there's still a fraction.
17:03Correct me if I'm wrong.
17:04It's a very small fraction.
17:05It's a small fraction.
17:06I mean, when I look at the numbers, vehicular emissions account for 39% of what makes Delhi choke, according to one figure.
17:15And most of the…
17:16And a small fraction are EVs.
17:18So, I mean, it's going to take years for us to resolve, you know, to tackle the problem of vehicular emissions.
17:26But if you, Rajdeep, if you recall our experience with CNG in Delhi, when a very clear mandate and a timeline was given, that within three years, all buses and local commercial vehicles will have to move to CNG.
17:42And that happened.
17:43And that happened even when the country was not producing a single CNG bus then.
17:48We need to recreate that kind of a strategy.
17:52That how do you drive and accelerate?
17:55And there are several levers.
17:57You can have fuel efficiency standards that will demand electrification.
18:01You require infrastructure, public charging infrastructure and home charging facilities.
18:07And you need to support the whole other mechanisms that are in place today.
18:14But we need the intent.
18:16We need the will to do that.
18:19You know, when I look at…
18:20You know, when you all keep saying will, I just look at some of the numbers.
18:24A parliamentary panel found that 858 crores allocated for pollution control in the 2024-25 budget was unutilized due to delays in approval from the Union Environment Ministry.
18:38Now, when I look at those numbers, that's where the will comes from.
18:41Are you going to prioritize this issue?
18:43You know, Pawan, every year in November, I hear farmers of Punjab being blamed.
18:48The stubble burning.
18:50Then when I look at the actual numbers, it shows that farm fires account for about 4% of what makes a city choke.
19:00Far higher, vehicular emissions, industrial pollution and dust.
19:04These are the top three.
19:05And yet, I don't hear enough spoken about them.
19:08Do you believe we also need to recognize, there needs to be a realization.
19:11Yes, you need to tackle the problem of farm fires surely.
19:15Stubble burning at the time.
19:16But is that where your attention should be when you look at solving the problems?
19:20Rajdeep, I will say I think we need to move away from our obsession for short-term measures, right?
19:27And I think what we need right now specifically in NCR is a five-year action plan with specific measurable targets sector wise.
19:37Because I think without a target that what we are going to reduce, how we are going to reduce is known.
19:42But I think what we are going to reduce time bound is very, very, very critical.
19:46So, say we are talking about 20 in next five years, what we are going to do in transport sector, in industry sector, in construction.
19:56I think we really have the numbers.
19:58We have the solutions.
19:59What we need is the execution plan.
20:01And this, we have to hold different departments accountable across NCR.
20:07We need a coordinated action in sync because we simply can't say that I'll just do only industrial, I'll not do transport.
20:14I think we clearly know what needs to happen sector by sector.
20:18We need the actors to really execute it.
20:21You know, can I look at an example, Vimalindu, which has been so successful, which is Beijing.
20:26It's always thrown as an example of what can be done.
20:29China got it right there.
20:31Beijing was one of the most polluted cities at the turn of the century.
20:35And eventually, today, they've leaked the problem.
20:37But it is an authoritarian regime where you can enforce from the top.
20:41In India, that might be much more difficult.
20:43How do you drive this five-year campaign, this clean air campaign in a country like India?
20:50Where would you start?
20:52So, I'll take from what Pawan and Anumita actually said.
20:56So, you need to understand one thing.
20:57The first time that the Prime Minister's office actually intervened or made a statement with regard to air pollution was with regard to private vehicles and EVs.
21:05We need to understand one thing very, very clear.
21:08Private vehicles of one kind can't be replaced by private vehicles of another kind.
21:13If we really need to solve this problem, we will have to look at public transport.
21:18And that's where the problem is.
21:20So, what did China do? What did tell our viewers what did China do?
21:23Exactly that, Rajdeep. China did exactly that in terms of Beijing.
21:27First of all, one of the things that it did, it actually strengthened its public transport infrastructure in this regime.
21:34Second thing that it did, which I mentioned earlier, the coal thermal power plants were actually moved out of the immediate periphery of Beijing.
21:41Third thing that it did, that the emissions, of course, we are talking about 7% to 8% or perhaps 10% emissions of Delhi NCR that happens from industries in that sense.
21:50They moved those industries outside the immediate periphery or so-called air catchment or air shed in that sense.
21:58So, we need to look at those harsh decisions, which of course came at the cost of the economy, were taken.
22:05So, public transport, your thermal power plants, your emission, of course, construction and demolition dust and roadside dust wasn't such a big thing in this case study of Beijing that we're talking about.
22:16And also, one of the things that Beijing did very, very importantly, and that's the fundamental of air quality governance, is that it did not really get obsessed with symptoms.
22:26It actually went to the source. So, you know, what we are actually looking at last 10 years of India's governance or 10 or 15 or perhaps 20 years of air quality governance in India, we only look at symptoms and we only look at it from a period…
22:40Give me an example.
22:41Give me an example.
22:42Sorry?
22:43Give me an example. When you say we look at symptoms…
22:45So, for example, one of the things that we are actually doing right now, one of the things that we are actually doing in bad governance of air quality is data manipulation.
22:54So, right now, for example, you are not wearing a mask, perhaps you are in the studio.
22:58I'm not wearing a mask because I'm in… I'm in… I'm sorry, I'm in Varanasi, where air quality is 357.
23:05In Noida, your air quality is 350, but we have normalized this 350 air quality, where countries like Thailand actually almost shut down at AQIF 200.
23:18So, it's Changa C at 350. It's okay at 450. And, you know, if your private monitor is telling you 1200, it's still fine. So, that's the problem that we are talking about.
23:29In terms of, you know, where are we looking at only symptoms? Sprinkling water or cloud seeding. Imagine for 16 days, the headline management in terms of air quality governance was with regard to cloud seeding.
23:42Where operation was successful, the patient died. In the sense, cloud seeding was successful, but rain didn't really happen. And there's no evidence from anywhere in the world where cloud seeding has actually worked.
23:54And imagine 1500 square kilometer area that we actually have of Delhi NCR, where one square kilometer costs almost 50 lakhs. How many such cloud seeding events? And the Minister, Environment Minister said, he wants it every two days because Delhi's air quality is very poor, almost 200 days, which is every alternate day.
24:13And when I interviewed him, he was almost celebrating when it went from very poor to poor, which clearly shows, as you said.
24:20Exactly. And then imagine, I was there yesterday at Anand Bihar, where your air, and which is one of the most polluted areas, where the air quality monitor is under a tree, 20 meters from there is a voodoo machine, endorsed by the Supreme Court, called smoke tower, and water sprinkled all through.
24:40And then the air quality is okay. And CAQM, so-called body, and the only quasi-judicial body. See, I was coughing in Gurgaam and coughing in Varanasi as well.
24:51Okay. You know, it's interesting you've chosen to be in Varanasi, which is the Prime Minister's constituency, and you're coughing there.
24:58But, you know, Dr. Nangia, while we are getting the environmentalists to give us potential solutions, should there be now a massive public health awareness campaign as well?
25:09Because people need to know also the dangers of what's happening. Because one of the questions I'm posing is, what will it take for the environment to become a political issue?
25:20In a country like India, it's only at the end of the day, if there are votes to be had or lost, on whether you care for the environment or don't care.
25:28Do you believe that's possible? A widespread public health awareness campaign of what poor air can do to our lives?
25:36Yeah, Rajdeep, absolutely. I fully agree with you. You know, now is a time when we have to have a mass movement that has to actually be in the form of public awareness about how air pollution is actually harming our lungs.
25:47Not only our lungs, but our entire health and reducing our life spines as well.
25:51While we have been aware about it, but I think somewhere in the back of my mind, we tend to slip it very often.
25:56You know, there are people who still come to us in the OPD saying, Doc, why should I quit smoking? As it is, we are breathing such bad air outside.
26:03So even if I continue smoking, how does it harm us? You know, what they don't realize is that with every PM 2.5 particle size in the environment around 25 mics is equivalent to one cigarette in a day.
26:15So if the PM 2.5 concentration is around 200 plus, so eight cigarettes, there you go completely. In a day, you breathe eight cigarettes in a day.
26:24So, you know, that is the kind of harm that we're doing to ourselves. Of course, the awareness is rising now, especially because what used to be called a silent invisible killer is now visible to us also.
26:35So, we do see people talking about it. Like earlier times, earlier years when people come to us during this time of the year with cough, cold, breathlessness, you would have to tell them that, you know, it's because of the air pollution outside.
26:47Now, when they come to us, they come to us saying that ever since the air quality has dropped, since then the symptoms started. Or since Diwali, the symptoms have actually worsened.
26:57So, the awareness is there, but I think it's a lack of will and a lack of, I think they all need to be pushed a little to convert it into a mass movement.
27:04You know, as I end in the last couple of minutes, I want 30 seconds to each of you. What would it take, Anumita, to make this a political issue?
27:11I know all of you have done a lot of work on the environment for a long time, long before it became even fashionable to have shows like this on it.
27:18But what will it take? What will it take, according to you, to make this a political issue? A quick answer.
27:24It's very clear. So, while we need massive campaigns, awareness campaigns regarding the problem,
27:30but at the same time, I think we need an even stronger campaign to build public understanding of the solution so that they can really make the political demand.
27:39You know, we talk about air pollution and running away from Delhi, but when it comes to solutions,
27:44we don't create that much demand for, you know, I want my public transport infrastructure to work when the government is giving me flyover after flyover.
27:52You know, so it's very important to deepen the understanding because the solutions are getting increasingly complex.
28:00And we don't want middle-class environmentalism only, that I can be fine with my air purifier kind of solution.
28:07I need hard decision, difficult, inconvenient decision.
28:11For that to build public support to change the politics around the solutions is going to be very critical.
28:18You know, because that's the issue that I often hear.
28:21And Pawan, you can take this and then Vimlendu very quickly, that, you know, this is a middle-class environment,
28:26this is an upper-middle-class issue, that the poor have far too many issues of Roti, Kapda, Makaan, Rozga to worry about Hava.
28:33How do you respond to those who will tell you this, Pawan, that, you know, that it doesn't make that much of a difference to the average person of this country?
28:43Not at all, because they are the ones who are totally getting impacted, right?
28:47They don't have purifiers.
28:48They are the ones actually more exposed.
28:51So I would really say that they are actually more vulnerable to actually what is happening,
28:54what many of us are actually leaving them with the kind of quality of air.
28:59See, we, Raj, we need to make difficult choices.
29:01And this is where I say that solutions are going to be difficult choices,
29:06because maybe it will make certain class uncomfortable.
29:09And therefore, I think deepening that awareness with citizens and public in general would be so critical,
29:16because you are talking about regulations, about mandates, about the need to change behavior,
29:20and all this would be maybe unpopular choices.
29:23But that's where I think creating not just understanding of the problem,
29:27but the solution is extremely important, because we need to make people part of the solution process,
29:33and that is where then they are able to ask, you know, sustainable solutions, right, to get clean air.
29:38So that's how I think we'll be able to really address this.
29:40That's from clean air to clean water as well,
29:42because remember, many of the poor in particular are the worst,
29:46suffer the worst because of the kind of water that they end up bringing.
29:50But, you know, Vimlendu, you're in the Prime Minister's constituency of Varanasi.
29:54I saw you the other day with Rahul Gandhi in a conversation.
29:58You know, we need, this is a, this is an issue that should cut across the political divide.
30:03The idea should be that Mr. Gandhi and the Prime Minister should come together
30:07along with chief ministers from different parties
30:09and have a national policy for ensuring clean air.
30:14Do you agree with me when I say that, that this issue is not to be seen through a political lens?
30:19Absolutely, Rajdeep. It should be every party's first political, first point in their manifesto.
30:26And as you asked the last question, with regard to it affects the poor the most.
30:31You know, it's not the same air that everyone breathes in Delhi.
30:34We need to understand that the air the Prime Minister breathes,
30:37or the air Rahul Gandhi breathes, or what you breathe,
30:40and what someone in Sangam Dihar breathes,
30:43or someone who is the subsea seller on the street is breathing, is completely different.
30:48So one is that there's different air quality for different strata of people,
30:53and then there's also different access to healthcare for different strata of people.
30:58Because if Dr. Saab is right, that it affects your lungs,
31:02if you have stunted lung growth, and you know, if you're asthmatic,
31:05and you have arthritis, and this, that, and the other,
31:08then it means that it affects someone who's actually standing eight hours at the traffic signal,
31:12much, much more, than with multiple air, you know, tenders going around in Delhi government,
31:19and central government of air purifiers.
31:21And our Chief Justice, I think it's very, very important for us to also,
31:25as I know that you had a fantastic interview with the previous CGI,
31:29but imagine, for several hearings, he's realized that it wasn't important.
31:35You know, someone like a Chief Justice of India doesn't even know what AQI is.
31:39The current Chief Justice of India is saying that let's do work from home.
31:43How many people can actually do work from home, in the sense, argue from home,
31:47or do this virtual courtroom?
31:49Can a rickshawwala, or a DTC driver, or a traffic cop, or many people do work from home?
31:54So, you know, when we look for solutions, we again look for solutions from a place of power,
32:00and a different kind of equity, and different kind of privilege.
32:04I take your point.
32:05I hope that the current Chief Justice and the former Chief Justice are listening to you.
32:10We need real solutions, workable solutions, tangible solutions, with a clear plan of action.
32:16For God's sake, let's create at least a five-year plan,
32:20so that we don't have to do these debates every year for an air emergency.
32:25We need a clear, transparent plan prepared.
32:28Hopefully, that will be done.
32:29To all my panelists for joining me on our air emergency roundtable, thank you very much.
32:34I hope a day comes when you and I can actually breathe some clean air,
32:40and more than us, every citizen of this country.
32:43It must become a fundamental right, the right to breathe clean air.
32:47Let's start a movement right from here.
32:50For now, take care, stay well, Jai Hind, Namaskar.
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