- 3 months ago
Tonight on The Cameron Journal Newshour, we're talking with Bruce Koerber about his theory of divine economics. Is the problem with the economy that we simply don't trust in god enough to provide peace and prosperity? We'll learn together. Meanwhile, before that, we talk about the latest fractures in MAGAworld with the resignation of MTG and the end of DOGE. Lastly, we talk about the G-20 Summit in South Africa and how the world is learning to live without the United States.
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00:00:00For more information visit www.fema.org
00:02:30Good evening, everyone.
00:02:43Why is it not switching?
00:02:48This is not a good sign when we have to do an interview.
00:02:52Oh, I know why.
00:02:56Because I don't have all the technology on.
00:02:59Webcams should not come with software.
00:03:02I've been saying it.
00:03:03I've been saying it.
00:03:05I've been saying it.
00:03:07It's so annoying.
00:03:10My softwares have softwares.
00:03:12It's so annoying.
00:03:15Anyway.
00:03:17Hello, everyone.
00:03:18My name is Cameron Cowan.
00:03:19Welcome to the Cameron Journal News Hour.
00:03:21It is going to be short on headlines this evening because in a half hour, we are going to be joined by Bruce Korver.
00:03:31He is best known for his book, Divine Economics.
00:03:35And we're going to talk about how the economy is not in line with the divine, religious, biblical theories.
00:03:44He's from the Baha'i religion, among other things.
00:03:47And so we're going to get into economics and his view of the economy and what's wrong and how things are out of alignment.
00:03:55I will admit, I haven't looked into his theories and things too much.
00:04:04So we're going to learn together.
00:04:06But he is a friend to the Soup Podcast Network, of which I'm a part.
00:04:12And it's going to be a really exciting thing and opportunity.
00:04:16We've been meaning to kind of have him on the show a little bit more and all this sort of thing.
00:04:22And so it'll be really exciting to learn more from him and figure out, you know, kind of what this all means and what it could mean for us economically and what his theories are.
00:04:32And it's just going to be different.
00:04:33It's going to be fun.
00:04:34It's going to be interesting.
00:04:35Also, he'll be calling in a little bit.
00:04:37So we're going to do about 20, 25 minutes of news and headlines.
00:04:41And then we're going to get into that.
00:04:46So we're going to get into that.
00:05:16I want to thank everybody who has subscribed to Cameron Journal Plus and make sure to subscribe to Cameron Journal Plus if you want to support my work and my journalism.
00:05:28That is fantastic.
00:05:31Also, my coffee link is in the newsletter.
00:05:33So if you sign up for the newsletter, you know, it's not for a monthly thing.
00:05:35I get it.
00:05:37Because, you know, too many memberships right now, all this type of thing.
00:05:42But you can tip me on coffee if you want to, which is really, really, really great and a lot of fun.
00:05:49Fun because you support journalism and fun for me because I get coffee.
00:05:52So everybody wins.
00:05:55So it's really fun.
00:05:56On social media, you can find me at Cameron Cowan on Instagram, LinkedIn, at Cameron Journal on TikTok, which is great.
00:06:08Lots of clips.
00:06:08I haven't done any original content for TikTok, which I used to do a lot of.
00:06:13And I need to get back into doing, like, you know, a short video every day sort of thing in addition to the show.
00:06:20But there's lots of clips.
00:06:22I want to remind everyone on Wednesdays, come see my second show, The Living Joke.
00:06:29You can subscribe to those updates at thelivingjoke.substack.com, which is really, really awesome.
00:06:36So that's a lot of fun.
00:06:39Yeah.
00:06:40So let's dive right into the headlines now.
00:06:44And we have all sorts of interesting.
00:06:48Oh, I did not want to do that.
00:06:50Hang on.
00:06:51I was trying to add in quickly.
00:06:55I wanted to do an ad break before we have Bruce Korver on.
00:07:01And I was trying to add this video real quick.
00:07:05And instead it switched the scene, which it always does.
00:07:10And there it is.
00:07:16But that's not what I want to do.
00:07:18Oh, I didn't want to do that either.
00:07:21Oh, well.
00:07:22Hang on.
00:07:23Hold that thought.
00:07:38There we go.
00:07:39So I will figure that out in a little bit.
00:07:43Anyway, instead, what we're going to do is we're going to dive right into the headlines.
00:07:53And this is going to be a lot of fun because we have sort of an interesting set of news stories this week.
00:08:10I was on the newsletter on Saturday.
00:08:13I had reported how some fractures were starting to open up within sort of within the MAGA movement over economics, over immigration.
00:08:26And interestingly, last week.
00:08:28Marjorie Taylor Greene, who has been on a lot of shows talking about affordability and all this sort of thing for everyday Americans and things like that.
00:08:43She is one on the media, she announced that she is going to resign her house seat in January of 2026 before the midterms, which I think is very funny.
00:08:54Trump had withdrawn her endorsement of her.
00:08:57And she kind of made that irrelevant by being like, not only am I not going to run again, I'm not even staying this whole time.
00:09:04Y'all going to send somebody else.
00:09:06I am going home and all this sort of thing.
00:09:12And that's been kind of a big bit of news.
00:09:16I did find out from reading David Pakman's newsletter just before the show, Trump quietly has shut down the Department of Government Efficiency.
00:09:29And he says that after it failed to deliver on promised reductions in waste, fraud, and bureaucracy, heavily promoted with Elon Musk, Doge never produced measurable results.
00:09:39When any of its employees were reassigned or lost their jobs, what was meant to be a hallmark achievement of his administration, instead become a public embarrassment, which is definitely one way of putting it.
00:09:57I did kind of have to go investigate this.
00:10:00And I found a Reuters story.
00:10:02Here, let me turn on the video so we can read together.
00:10:06And it says here that, this is from yesterday, U.S. President Donald Trump's Department of Government Efficiency has disbanded, with eight months left to its mandate, ending an initiative launched with fanfare as a symbol of Trump's pledge to slash the government's size, but which critics say delivered few measurable savings.
00:10:28That doesn't exist, Office of Personal Management Director Scott Cooper told writers earlier this month when asked about Doge's status.
00:10:34It says here, quote,
00:11:04That body is headed by Joe Gebbia, co-founder of Airbnb, and Trump's order directed him to beautify government websites.
00:11:14Gebbia was part of billionaire Elon Musk's Doge team, while Doge employee Edward Corriston, nicknamed Big Balls, encouraged followers on his X account to apply to join.
00:11:23The fading away of Doge is in sharp contrast to the government-wide effort over months to draw attention to it, with Trump's advisors and cabinet secretaries posting about it on social media.
00:11:32Musk, who led Doge initially, regularly touted his work on his X platform, and at one point brandished a chainsaw to advertise his efforts to cut government jobs.
00:11:39This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy, Musk said, holding the tool above his head at the Conservative Political Action Conference in National Harbor, Maryland in February.
00:11:46Doge claimed to have slashed tens of billions of dollars in expenditures, but it was impossible for outside financial experts to verify that because the unit did not provide detailed public accounting of its work.
00:11:55President Trump was given a clear mandate to reduce waste, fraud, and abuse across the federal government, and he continues to accurately deliver on that commitment, said the White House spokeswoman Liz Huston in an email to Reuters.
00:12:05Trump administration officials have not openly said that Doge no longer exists, even after Musk's public feud with Trump in May.
00:12:11Musk has since left Washington.
00:12:13Trump and his team, nevertheless, have signaled its demise in public since this summer, even though the U.S. president signed an executive order earlier in his term, decreeing that Doge would last through July of 2026.
00:12:23In statements to reporters, Trump often talks about Doge in the past tense.
00:12:28Acting Doge administrator Amy Gleason, whose background is in healthcare tech, formerly became an advisor to the Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy in March, according to a court filing.
00:12:36In addition to her role with Doge, her public statements have largely focused on her HHS role.
00:12:41Republican-led states, including Idaho and Florida, meanwhile, are creating local entities similar to Doge.
00:12:45A government-wide hiring increase, another hallmark of Doge, is also over, Kupor said.
00:12:49Trump, on his first day in office, barred federal agencies from bringing in new employees, with exceptions for positions that his team deemed necessary to enforce immigration laws and protect public safety.
00:12:59He later said Doge representatives must approve any other exceptions, adding that agencies should hire no more than one employee for every court that depart.
00:13:07There is no target around reductions anymore, Kupor said.
00:13:10Doge staff have also taken on other roles in administration.
00:13:13Most prominent is Gebbia, whom Trump tasked with improving the visual presentation of government websites.
00:13:17So far, his design studio has launched websites to recruit law enforcement officers to patrol Washington, D.C., and advertise the Pozen's drug pricing program.
00:13:24Gebbia declined an interview with Reuters via spokesperson.
00:13:27Zachary Terrell, part of the Doge team, given access to government health systems in the early days of Trump's second term, is now chief technology officer at the Department of Health and Human Services.
00:13:35Rachel Riley, who had the same access, according to court filings, is now chief of the Office of Naval Research, according to the Office's website.
00:13:40Jeremy Lewin, who helped Musk in the Trump administration, dismantle the U.S. Agency for International Development, now oversees foreign assistance at the State Department, according to his website.
00:13:52Musk, shortly after Trump's election, said he had a mandate to delete the mountain of government regulations.
00:13:57He made undoing government regulations and remaking the government with AI two key tenets of Doge, in addition to eliminating federal government jobs.
00:14:03The administration is still working towards slashing regulations.
00:14:06The White House budget office has tasked Scott Langmack, who is Doge's representative at the Department of Housing and Human Development, with creating custom AI applications to pour through U.S. regulations with him on which ones to eliminate, according to his LinkedIn profile.
00:14:17Musk, meanwhile, has reappeared in Washington.
00:14:19This week, he attended a White House dinner for Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.
00:14:24So, I, I mean, I always found it very interesting when we stopped hearing about Doge, which really kind of started, when Musk left, that was kind of the end of that era.
00:14:41And the fact that it's kind of been parted out and moved around and isn't really a centralized thing anymore and all this type of thing is quite interesting.
00:14:50Several months ago now, I covered a story talking from one ex-employee who said, actually, we found there wasn't a lot of fraud and waste involved.
00:15:00Like, we, there wasn't really a lot to cut and government actually works pretty well.
00:15:05You know, you'd be surprised.
00:15:06And I thought that was, that was rather interesting, but it is, it is quite obvious that we have moved on and people have taken other new and different roles within the administration.
00:15:24So, I thought that was interesting.
00:15:26The other thing Pacman mentioned in his newsletter was this sort of truth social meltdown.
00:15:35And also the, Trump's difficulty walking and concerns with his health.
00:15:40And it says here, a concerning video of Trump struggling to walk outside the White House as a clinical psychologist, Dr. John Gartner, to warn of severe cognitive decline.
00:15:48Gartner cites unstable gait, memory gaps, disoriented speech, phonemic paraphrases, tangential sentences, and diminishing vocabulary.
00:15:57He predicts Trump may not remain mentally confident by the end of his term.
00:16:00Well, we, people have been saying that for a while.
00:16:02So, there's also been, and it's funny because I just saw this tweet from the Department of War, Department of Defense, that they are, they're investigating Senator Mark Kelly for violating the military code of justice due to his comments, along with many other Democrats,
00:16:29that's about warning soldiers to not follow unlawful orders and to follow the Constitution.
00:16:36The, Trump, that did kind of cause a bit of the meltdown with, with, with Trump, which I thought was rather, rather interesting.
00:16:44Um, and, uh, that, uh, that was, you know, an odd, an odd dynamic, um, you know, with the, with that video coming out and then Trump literally being like, like, they should be arrested, they should be in jail, they should be this, that, and the third.
00:17:03It was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was
00:17:33It says here,
00:18:03It reminds all individuals that military retirees remain subject to the UCMJ for applicable offenses and federal laws such as such and such a code.
00:18:10Prohibit actions intended to interfere with loyalty, morale, or good order and discipline of the armed forces.
00:18:14Any violations will be addressed through appropriate legal channels.
00:18:17All service members are reminded that they have a legal obligation under UCMJ to obey lawful orders and that orders are presumed to be lawful.
00:18:27A service member's personal philosophy does not justify or excuse the disobedience of an otherwise lawful order.
00:18:33And that is all over a video that Democrats posted reminding military members that they have an obligation to not follow unlawful orders.
00:18:52So that's, that's fun.
00:18:59I'm going to see if I can find that video real quick.
00:19:02Um, because it's worth, um, Trump had called it seditious.
00:19:16I think here it is from CBS in Pittsburgh.
00:19:20Here it is.
00:19:21Community veterans to urge charged officials to disobey illegal orders.
00:19:29Michigan Senator Alyssa Slotkin, a former CIA analyst, posted the video.
00:19:33Lawmakers say threats to the Constitution are just coming from abroad.
00:19:37No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution.
00:19:42We know this is hard and that it's a difficult time to be a public servant.
00:19:46But whether you're serving in the CIA,
00:19:47in the Army,
00:19:48or Navy,
00:19:49the Air Force,
00:19:50your vigilance is critical.
00:19:52And know that we have your back.
00:19:53Because now, more than ever,
00:19:55the American people need you.
00:19:57We need you to stand up for our laws,
00:19:59our Constitution,
00:19:59and who we are as Americans.
00:20:02Don't give up.
00:20:04Slotkin told the New York Times that she's heard from active duty troops
00:20:07who are concerned about the legality of strikes on people
00:20:10the Trump administration says are drug traffickers.
00:20:13The administration called it video
00:20:14an attempt to encourage the military to rebel against Trump.
00:20:20Yes, indeed.
00:20:21And that, uh,
00:20:23that, that is, uh,
00:20:25uh, uh,
00:20:26that is,
00:20:27that is also caused part of the,
00:20:30um,
00:20:31part of the,
00:20:31part of the truth social meltdown over,
00:20:34over,
00:20:35over the,
00:20:35over the weekend.
00:20:37Um,
00:20:37I,
00:20:38I have not been in the military.
00:20:40Um,
00:20:40I come from a military family,
00:20:41but have not been in the military.
00:20:43Um,
00:20:44I,
00:20:44if I had been a little bit more prepared,
00:20:46I would have texted my dad to find out what he thinks about all this.
00:20:49And maybe,
00:20:49maybe I will,
00:20:50and I'll report back next week.
00:20:51Um,
00:20:53or,
00:20:53uh,
00:20:54you know,
00:20:54maybe catch me up on social,
00:20:56social media sort of thing.
00:20:57Um,
00:20:58which I have not been terribly active on in non,
00:21:02you know,
00:21:03sort of stock content sort of thing.
00:21:05Um,
00:21:06I need to get better,
00:21:07better about that.
00:21:09I tend to read more than I contribute.
00:21:11And that's not good when you're a content creator.
00:21:13My job is to make stuff so that you all will watch it and read it.
00:21:18Um,
00:21:19before our guest comes in a few moments,
00:21:22I want to shift over to the G20 meeting.
00:21:25Now,
00:21:27the G20 usually includes the top 20 economies and the U S decided to boycott over South Africa,
00:21:33persecuting the white farmers.
00:21:36If you remember that whole thing.
00:21:38And,
00:21:38um,
00:21:39and they,
00:21:40you know,
00:21:40are kind of like,
00:21:41okay,
00:21:41we're going to move on without you.
00:21:43So the headline,
00:21:44can the world move on without the U S G 20 leaders,
00:21:46give it a shot.
00:21:47It says president Cyril Ramaphosa of South Africa could not contain his laughter.
00:21:52A reporter asked him to confirm reports that the United States had dropped its boycott
00:21:55and asked to participate in the group of 20 summit in,
00:21:57in Johannesburg,
00:21:59just two days before it was set to start.
00:22:01The South African leader barely uttered a word before breaking down laughter,
00:22:04eventually composing himself and saying he had received a note that the Americans,
00:22:08from the Americans quote,
00:22:08about a change of mind,
00:22:09unquote.
00:22:10President Trump's spokeswoman Carolyn Levitt later said that Mr. Ramaphosa's language
00:22:14was quote,
00:22:14not appreciated by the president or his team,
00:22:16unquote.
00:22:17Just a few weeks ago,
00:22:18that sort of scolding from the white house would have set off a slight panic in the South
00:22:20African government and perhaps drawn an explanation for Mr. Ramaphosa for his departure from
00:22:24diplomatic decorum.
00:22:26With Mr.
00:22:26Trump boycotting the annual meeting over his contention that South Africa is persecuting
00:22:29its white minority.
00:22:30Some countries were taking a tougher tone on the world's largest economy and trying to show
00:22:33that life can go on.
00:22:35That meant shaking hands,
00:22:37signing deals,
00:22:38deepening alliances,
00:22:38and making pledges as slickly,
00:22:40at slickly produced live events.
00:22:42The G20 should send a clear message that the world can move on with or without the United,
00:22:46with or without the U.S.
00:22:47Ronald LaMolle,
00:22:48a South Africa's foreign minister,
00:22:49sent it a forum hosted by Bloomberg before the summit.
00:22:52We will mark them absent and continue with the business.
00:22:55South Africa declined to term administration requests that Mr.
00:22:57Ramaphosa ceremonially hand over the summit to the acting ambassador for the United States,
00:23:01which hosts next year's G20.
00:23:02Mr.
00:23:03Ramaphosa would not hand over to a junior diplomat,
00:23:05the government said,
00:23:06adding that American officials could instead come by its foreign ministry later in the week
00:23:10for the handover.
00:23:11At the summit,
00:23:11Mr. Ramaphosa pushed ahead with an agenda that put African interests at the poor.
00:23:15He broke with tradition by starting the two-day meeting with the adoption of a final declaration.
00:23:19Such documents are normally issued at the end.
00:23:21And he said that the declaration had a unanimous agreement among the members present,
00:23:24despite an objection from the foreign minister of Argentina.
00:23:27That country,
00:23:29several participants said,
00:23:30has championed the Trump administration's interest this year.
00:23:33We note with deep respect the views expressed by Argentina,
00:23:35Mr. Ramaphosa responded.
00:23:36We will,
00:23:37with great respect,
00:23:37move ahead with the acceptance declaration as the G20.
00:23:41The final declaration included many terms that Trump officials had opposed in meetings ahead of the summit,
00:23:45among them just energy transitions,
00:23:47climate change,
00:23:47and gender equality.
00:23:49Quote,
00:23:49I think the big message coming out of the G20 is that despite the geopolitical bullying that exists,
00:23:53despite the power of the U.S.,
00:23:54the countries can come together and still get stuff done.
00:23:56Said Nabil Ahmed,
00:23:57a senior director at Oxfam America,
00:23:58who attended the summit.
00:24:00President Luis Inacio Lula de Silva of Brazil
00:24:02told reporters after the meeting ended on Sunday
00:24:04that although Mr. Trump has been promoting unilateralism,
00:24:07quote,
00:24:07I think multilateralism will win.
00:24:09Everyone here knows that together we'll be much stronger,
00:24:11much more competent.
00:24:12But for all the celebration,
00:24:13Mr. Lula and his fellow leaders are under no illusion
00:24:15that they can simply thumb their noses at Mr. Trump.
00:24:17The size of its economy means the United States still has great influence
00:24:21over geopolitical global issues like renewable energy trade and wars.
00:24:25Brazil is still grappling with the high tariffs Washington imposed on some of its products.
00:24:30South Africa is in the middle of a difficult negotiations with the Trump administration
00:24:32to try to get its own 30% tariff reduced.
00:24:35And the final G20 declaration is not binding.
00:24:37It makes a series of recommendations on what can influence policy decisions of institutions,
00:24:42like the International Monetary Fund.
00:24:43The U.S. vote has serious influence at many of these institutions.
00:24:46Mr. Trump's impact could be felt on the summit's first day
00:24:49when Ukrainian allies quickly had to pull together a meeting on the sidelines
00:24:52to discuss a contentious American-backed peace plan for war with Russia.
00:24:55That was just one of the geopolitical issues that divided G20 leaders.
00:25:00Quote,
00:25:00We are having trouble putting new compromises on the table, unquote,
00:25:03President Emmanuel Macron of France said,
00:25:05adding that G20 negotiators found themselves struggling to come to terms,
00:25:08quote,
00:25:08on subjects we thought were settled, unquote.
00:25:11But in some ways,
00:25:11America's retreat has allowed other nations to look past their problems with each other.
00:25:14It wasn't long ago that the European Union and South Africa were at odds
00:25:17over South Africa's friendliness with Russia after its invasion of Ukraine.
00:25:21But in the days leading up to the G20 summit,
00:25:22Mr. Armifosa was all smilesy still alongside Ursula von der Leyen,
00:25:26the President of the European Commission,
00:25:27and Antonio Costa, President of the European Council, during events.
00:25:30The European leaders announced that a new mineral is packed with South Africa
00:25:32and pledged billions of dollars towards renewable energy development in Africa.
00:25:36Quote,
00:25:36We are a partner that plays by the rules,
00:25:38Ms. von der Leyen said.
00:25:39We listen to our partners.
00:25:41Ha ha ha ha!
00:25:42Oh, the subtweet.
00:25:44Oh, the subtweet.
00:25:46The subtweet.
00:25:47Ha ha ha ha!
00:25:49I talked about this on the newsletter as well.
00:25:53It's a very,
00:25:55it's a,
00:25:56it,
00:25:56this ultimately doesn't necessarily mean that much,
00:26:00but it is interesting how Trump resetting American foreign policy
00:26:04is causing other pieces on the table to move around.
00:26:08And this idea of the rest of the world trying to hold on to multilateralism,
00:26:13even as the U.S. abandons it,
00:26:15I think remains interesting.
00:26:19For a whole kind of wide variety of,
00:26:22of,
00:26:23of reasons.
00:26:24And I,
00:26:25I think this idea that the world's trying to learn to live without the U.S.
00:26:29and just kind of mark them absent and move on with business and all this type of thing
00:26:33is interesting.
00:26:34But it's also kind of funny how Macron is complaining about there already being fractures
00:26:38and there's so that Ukraine can deal with it.
00:26:40It's kind of like,
00:26:42you know,
00:26:42I think there's a,
00:26:43a moral of the story here.
00:26:45Life isn't so easy without the U.S.
00:26:48Um,
00:26:49life is not so easy when it's just kind of up to you all to put aside your differences
00:26:53and get along and figure things out when no one's sort of dominantly setting the agenda
00:26:58in a big economic way.
00:27:01Interestingly enough,
00:27:02what's kind of missing from this article is China.
00:27:05As I,
00:27:06and I said in the newsletter,
00:27:07the reality of this is that the U.S.
00:27:09taking a step back,
00:27:10and we kind of already saw this,
00:27:12um,
00:27:14with,
00:27:14uh,
00:27:16with,
00:27:16uh,
00:27:18the Obama years when it was kind of,
00:27:20oh,
00:27:20let's take a step back and stop being the world's policeman and all this sort of,
00:27:23sort of thing.
00:27:24Um,
00:27:24is that other people rush in to fill the power vacuum.
00:27:29And ultimately this is a golden opportunity for China to fill in some of that international
00:27:33role that the U.S.
00:27:35used to do.
00:27:35Now,
00:27:36I think what's interesting is Beijing is not necessarily too hot to trot on becoming the
00:27:39world's policeman or getting too involved,
00:27:41but economically speaking,
00:27:42they're definitely interested in filling in some of those economic gaps of what,
00:27:46of what we used to do.
00:27:48I think it will be interesting,
00:27:50post-Trump to see if,
00:27:57uh,
00:27:58if there's any movement towards returning to multilateralism and getting more involved in
00:28:03these institutions and,
00:28:05and trying to,
00:28:06to get back in it.
00:28:08And whether people will take the U.S.
00:28:10back,
00:28:10or if the rules will have changed so much by that time that it may not be so easy and
00:28:16we may be,
00:28:16uh,
00:28:17viewed with an air of suspicion.
00:28:19The,
00:28:19the,
00:28:19the reminder being that these things have consequences.
00:28:22These decisions have consequences.
00:28:24And Trump is very used to kind of,
00:28:28you know,
00:28:29jerking people around.
00:28:30And people in other countries don't necessarily have to always,
00:28:35always put up with that.
00:28:36So,
00:28:37um,
00:28:37our guest,
00:28:38Bruce Korber is going to be here in two minutes.
00:28:40So I'm going to,
00:28:42um,
00:28:43play a,
00:28:45uh,
00:28:45a little ad for my book,
00:28:47America's Lost Generation.
00:28:48And hopefully by the time that's done airing,
00:28:51Mr.
00:28:51Korber will be here.
00:28:52If I've got my timing correct,
00:28:54we'll see.
00:28:55So we'll be back after these messages.
00:28:58Yes.
00:28:58Yes.
00:28:58Yes.
00:28:58Yes.
00:28:58Yes.
00:28:59Yes.
00:28:59Yes.
00:28:59Yes.
00:28:59Yes.
00:29:00Yes.
00:29:00Yes.
00:29:01Yes.
00:29:02Yes.
00:29:02Yes.
00:29:03Yes.
00:29:04Yes.
00:29:05Yes.
00:29:06Or not.
00:29:16Well,
00:29:16damn,
00:29:17I went through all of that to try to.
00:29:25Maybe not.
00:29:30Try as I might.
00:29:33I was hoping.
00:29:34Millennials are America's largest,
00:29:48most educated generation in American history.
00:29:51A generation of ambition,
00:29:53education,
00:29:53and progress facing an uncertain reality.
00:29:56Born into an era of economic chaos.
00:29:59They face challenges far beyond what they were told to prepare for.
00:30:03They've had to rethink traditional milestones as they enter adulthood during global uncertainty.
00:30:09Their struggles mirror those of a generation before them.
00:30:12Japan's lost generation.
00:30:14The same story,
00:30:15different country,
00:30:16different time.
00:30:17America's lost generation goes beyond the numbers to capture the unique ways this generation is reshaping their future in their own words.
00:30:19It's a story of real people,
00:30:21authentic challenges,
00:30:21and untold resilience.
00:30:22Millennials are America's largest as they enter adulthood during global uncertainty.
00:30:27Their struggles mirror those of a generation before them.
00:30:30Japan's lost generation.
00:30:32America's lost generation goes beyond the numbers to capture the unique ways this generation is reshaping their future in their own words.
00:30:44It's a story of real people,
00:30:46authentic challenges,
00:30:47and untold resilience.
00:30:49Explore the stories and reflections of America's lost generation by Cameron Cohen.
00:30:54Available now at SupaWealthy.com.
00:31:02Okay, I almost had that figured out.
00:31:05I had to start a new scene and it blipped in the middle, but that's okay.
00:31:08On the bright side, my timing was perfect and Bruce is here to talk.
00:31:13So let me add him in.
00:31:15Let me do that.
00:31:17And let me do that.
00:31:20And let me do that.
00:31:25And welcome, Bruce, to the Cameron Journal News Hour.
00:31:29Your timing was perfect.
00:31:30I finished the headlines.
00:31:31I was running an ad.
00:31:33And I'm like, if I time this correctly, he'll be here when the ad ends.
00:31:35And here you are.
00:31:36So this almost looks like a professional production.
00:31:39It's kind of fun.
00:31:40But, yeah, so I've already kind of told people a little bit.
00:31:43But this evening, I'm very interested in finding out a little bit more about you and your background and divine economics.
00:31:51So rather than me trying to do a whole intro like we do on the podcast, why don't we just start right into the conversation?
00:31:56Why don't you tell us a little about yourself and your work?
00:31:58OK, well, I was studying international forestry at Auburn University, and I met a professor who was looking for a graduate student in agricultural economics.
00:32:11And so I had to get some catch up on economics.
00:32:16So they sent me to the economics department, which was at Auburn University, which was had about three years prior to that become the world center of Austrian economics.
00:32:27The Mises Institute established itself there.
00:32:32So fortunately for me, even though there were different professors of different slants there, the professor that I had was an Austrian economist.
00:32:41He introduced me to Austrian economics.
00:32:44So that kind of changed my perspective on the world.
00:32:49And I've been an Austrian economist ever since.
00:32:52So that was in 1985, in 485.
00:32:57Well, that was very popular at the time, certainly.
00:33:01So that makes sense that it fits.
00:33:04So, well, that's excellent.
00:33:07So that's the, I have my, we could have a whole conversation on Austrian economics.
00:33:13We could do a whole show just on that.
00:33:15Because I have thoughts.
00:33:16But, many, many thoughts.
00:33:18But, um, this evening I wanted to, uh, let's get into the, to the divine economics.
00:33:24So you were, started as a Austrian economist, all this type of thing.
00:33:26When did you, because you've written like four books.
00:33:28So when did you get into kind of realizing the economy is, as you put it over email when we were, when I was hurriedly on Saturday night saying, can we do this on Monday?
00:33:39Anyway, um, you were to say, like, the economy is sort of out of ordered.
00:33:43Um, how did we make the leap from Austrian economics to divine economics?
00:33:49Well, there's a little bit of a, my perspective coming into Austrian economics.
00:33:55I was a Baha'i.
00:33:57And I also kind of recognized the equality of science and religion.
00:34:01So I never, uh, removed the idea that religion had a play, uh, some, something to contribute to the science.
00:34:11And so when I would read, uh, Austrian economics or, or religious teachings or whatever, I would see the, the, the, the, uh, basically the interconnectedness of them.
00:34:24Um, so, you know, a lot of people who are Austrian economists, they could be, a person could be an Austrian economist.
00:34:31In fact, some of the most famous are, of them are what they would, they would consider themselves atheists.
00:34:38I'm not an atheist, but I'm an Austrian economist.
00:34:41And so I was able to, uh, from that perspective, uh, enrich the Austrian tradition.
00:34:48Uh, and so what, basically what really enriched the Austrian tradition was the, the discovery of, and the development of the divine economy theory.
00:34:59And that all started in, um, the late, late 2004.
00:35:05I had a dream.
00:35:06I mean, I'm just telling you, I, I, I don't usually put pieces of paper and pencil beside my bed and a bed, bed stand.
00:35:13For some reason, intuition reasons, I had a pencil and paper next to my bed during this period.
00:35:21It woke me up what I dreamed.
00:35:23And I, but I don't ever remember my dreams.
00:35:26So, and I, I was conscious enough to know that I don't remember my dreams.
00:35:30So I just wrote down what I saw in my dream and I went back to sleep.
00:35:35Then when I woke up in the morning and I looked at it, there was an image on the page, on that piece of paper that basically had the divine economy in the center.
00:35:47And then it had human spirit, transformation, law and order.
00:35:51Those, that's what, that's what the image was.
00:35:54It was like a flower with the center of the blossom and the four petals.
00:35:58And because I'm an Austrian economist and because I'm a Baha'i or, but mostly because I'm technically trained as an Austrian economist, I was able to unfold that image first into a macroeconomic model, then into a microeconomic model, then into an ethical economics model, and then into an economic justice model.
00:36:19So that's why it's so, it's that expansive and that comprehensive, but it's all, it's all within the tradition of what's called classical liberalism, which means that recognizing that human beings are unique, each human being is unique.
00:36:41And then the contribution of Austrian economics is that they make their choices subjectively, they value things subjectively.
00:36:49And then, uh, there's other elements to it too, but that's, that's where it all began.
00:36:56No, that's very helpful.
00:36:58And for those that are uninitiated, including somewhat myself, can you give us a quick and dirty on what the Baha'i religion is?
00:37:06It's a very small Abrahamic religion.
00:37:08And ironically, I work for a Baha'i and know almost nothing about it, even though we have 17 books in our library of, and there's a new bestseller campaign going out.
00:37:19On Friday, that I have approved, sort of thing.
00:37:22I don't actually know that much.
00:37:23I know the listeners don't very much either.
00:37:25Can you give us a quick and dirty on the Baha'i religion?
00:37:28Well, Baha'is believe that there's one God and all the religions believe in the same God.
00:37:35And that the, the, the humans evolve spiritually, just like they've evolved physically.
00:37:41And part of their spiritual evolution is they, so here's the thing.
00:37:47Humans can only comprehend, uh, up to a certain level.
00:37:52And then, then after that, they can't go beyond that point unless there's, uh, guidance.
00:37:59So God basically helps humans spiritually evolve by sending messengers of God.
00:38:06That's what, that's what advances human civilization.
00:38:10These messengers of God come, they teach humanity what, what they need to know for that age.
00:38:16And then in the future, the next age, you know, when that time comes, a new messenger will come.
00:38:23And so Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah, who lived last century in the, in the 1800s, passed in the 1892, that he is the, the latest, most recent messenger of God.
00:38:36Excellent. No, thank you very much for people that are, cause it's a very, it's, it's a very small religion.
00:38:43So we, all the people have, if they've heard of it, they don't know anything about it.
00:38:47And so, um, I had literally heard of it in passing before I met Wade Pranson and started working at Zoom Media and all this sort of thing.
00:38:57And so I've got, I've, I've learned bits and pieces more, but that's an excellent, excellent explanation.
00:39:01So then let's dive, let's dive into the ultimate comparison I wanted, I wanted to make, which is what is wrong with today's economy and how would bringing it into alignment with these values that you have articulated, um, what would that, what would that look like?
00:39:23So let's start with kind of what's wrong and then how do we fix it?
00:39:26Well, what's wrong is, uh, economics uses the wrong scientific method.
00:39:33So I'm speaking from the point of view of, of the classical liberal or an Austrian economist, uh, economists, most economists and, and the economy is run by these people who are economists or politically, uh, politically, uh,
00:39:49involved, uh, involved, uh, using, uh, intervention to, uh, design where, what they want to design.
00:39:59But the method that the economics uses outside of the Austrian school is, is an incorrect methodology.
00:40:07And, and, and so as a result, it basically what happens is they're able to, they, they, they impose vain imaginings, which are, which, which is the, the, the, the correct, the, the economic term for their vain imaginings that they impose on humanity is economic intervention.
00:40:31Because here's the thing, there's over 5 billion adults in the, in the world, and every one of them is making their own subjective valuations.
00:40:41And then those, those value there, they make choices based on that.
00:40:45And their choices change all the time, spontaneously.
00:40:49They can make, they can change their mind even.
00:40:51So there's no way a human mind can comprehend what's going on in the market process.
00:40:58Okay.
00:40:58Well, that's, that's the gas pump problem.
00:41:00My, my dad always talks about like economists presume that if there's a cheaper gas price somewhere, people will automatically go there.
00:41:08But that's almost never true because they never seem to understand how people work.
00:41:13And I said, you know, yeah, I'm like, I get that.
00:41:16You know, I said, if the, you know, cause one, the first problem is you may spend more gas going to get the cheaper gas and you've come out a loser.
00:41:23And I said too, and here's the thing I think economists forget, people are lazy.
00:41:28And I was working somewhere at the time and I said, yeah, I said, I go for the cheapest gas on my route to work.
00:41:34I had a long commute at the time.
00:41:35I'm like, I go for the cheapest gas pump on my route to work.
00:41:39That, that's the gas market I care about in North Sea.
00:41:42I was living in Seattle at the time.
00:41:43In North Seattle.
00:41:44Between Northgate and Ballard where I work, what's cheap on that road?
00:41:49Dude, that's my gas market.
00:41:51Forget everything else.
00:41:52That's my gas market.
00:41:53And so, because they, well, if you drove over here, it would be cheaper.
00:41:56Yeah, I have to get to work, bro.
00:41:58Like, I work at 730.
00:42:00Like, I, so, yeah.
00:42:01And, and, but the economic models never account for that.
00:42:05You know, that's how people are doing it.
00:42:08So, that completely, that's vain imaginings right there.
00:42:11Right.
00:42:12Right.
00:42:12And so, basically what happens is the, the economic science is full of itself.
00:42:19It's, it, it, it imagines that it has this power and, and its purpose, and it's, and it
00:42:25basically is rotten to the core because it's, it's trying to control people.
00:42:30That's what it's trying to do.
00:42:32It's, it, it, it's using the incorrect scientific methodology and it's, it's aspires to control
00:42:39people and so it, and because it's using this incorrect methodology, basically, it doesn't
00:42:46really understand the human reality and it distrusts human capacity and its ability to
00:42:53transform.
00:42:55And so, and the, here's, here's where it gets, where the divine economy comes in.
00:43:00Not only does it, is it incorrect scientifically with regards to the human reality.
00:43:07It, it, it, it's far, far from trusting in God.
00:43:13In fact, it's like the, the, the, the, I, the standing belief in, in economic science is
00:43:24that, uh, um, looking at, um, the standing belief in economic science.
00:43:33Yeah, regarding, is, is having neutrality.
00:43:38Yeah.
00:43:39Uh, and, and that it's good science not to recognize the power and, and purpose of God.
00:43:47Okay.
00:43:48So that, that it's completely removed from the science, but that's where the disconnection
00:43:55is because, uh, the thing is, like I was saying, because humans are subjective, they're making
00:44:06their values, they're making choices based on their subjective values.
00:44:10And they're, and, and that subjectivity basically is another way of saying that each individual
00:44:16is unique.
00:44:17And, and so, uh, if you, if you don't take a lot, so, and, and because of that, uh, it's
00:44:29incomprehensible to, to understand what all is happening in the world instantaneously and
00:44:36in, in, in the future, you know, the, the only, only possible, uh, way that that can function
00:44:44is, is recognizing that there's something that is all knowing and providential.
00:44:52And that's basically what the economy really, in its true essence is it's providential.
00:44:59And so if you don't, if there's a lack of trust in God and, and, and, and, and try and
00:45:06try and an attempt to make science neutral about God being, uh, the force behind it all, then,
00:45:16then, uh, the, the, the, the outcome is we have to do it.
00:45:23We have to fix it rather than letting it work as it should work, as it would work without that
00:45:33intervention.
00:45:37Understandable.
00:45:38Um, I, I think there's, uh, I, I, I think there's a couple of problems there.
00:45:44I think it's, it's interesting when you talk about, you know, the scientific neutrality and
00:45:48kind of pulling God out of the, out of the equation.
00:45:51There were many enlightenment scientists that if, you know, attributed things to God, they
00:45:57did not yet understand.
00:45:59Um, and if anything, technology has reduced that as the decades and centuries have, have
00:46:05gone by since then.
00:46:08Um, but I think it's, you know, when we look at, you know, our present system, which is horrifically
00:46:13unequal and is filled with wealth concentration at the top and wealth inequality, which causes,
00:46:19which amplifies human suffering to absolutely inhumane levels and all this sort of thing.
00:46:24Um, I'm, I'm not, I'm not quite sure how a belief in, in, in God, regardless of kind
00:46:32of what denomination pathway you get there, um, would necessarily solve the structural policy
00:46:40economic issues.
00:46:42So let's, let's dive into that.
00:46:44What does a divinely aligned economy look like?
00:46:49How does that, how does that work?
00:46:51How do, how would we create that?
00:46:54I guess.
00:46:56Well, I think, like I said, first step scientifically is recognize that humans are subjective.
00:47:03So if they're subjective, you know, uh, you're, you make a decision yourself, Cameron, you make
00:47:11a decision.
00:47:13How, what's the likelihood that my thought about your decision, uh, is valid.
00:47:24I mean, you, you make your decision because it's best, you consider it to be the best thing
00:47:29for you, I have no right or ability to, to, uh, say, no, no, that's not right.
00:47:38This is right.
00:47:39Okay.
00:47:39So it's basically, it's removing, it's, it's basically removing your ability to, to, uh,
00:47:47make your, to, to express yourself.
00:47:52And so that's what happens in the economy when, when someone else is, uh, is making decisions
00:48:01and interjecting things into the economy rather than the economy just expressing itself.
00:48:07So that, and so that's, that's where the divine, the divine economy is, is something that is,
00:48:14it shows as an expression of human choices rather than choices imposed on humanity.
00:48:23So it's, it's, it's the other way around.
00:48:26It's, it's, it's basically starting from, from each individual and their uniqueness and
00:48:34their ability to, uh, exercise their human, human qualities.
00:48:40That's where, that's where, that's what the economy is, it looks like from there.
00:48:47Yeah.
00:48:49I mean, I, I feel like this is a bit of the, uh, the Adam Smith capitalism problem.
00:48:56Adam Smith and the wealth of nations gives us kind of the handbook to capitalism.
00:49:00And in a pre-industrial, primarily agrarian society, um, Adam Smith's view of the world and
00:49:07capitalism is actually quite elegant.
00:49:08Especially compared to all those guilds and mercantilism that came before all talk about
00:49:13over-regulation.
00:49:14What a disaster.
00:49:15Um, but then industrialization comes along and all of a sudden you need concentrations of
00:49:21capital to buy machines and build factories and all this type of thing.
00:49:24And, and the worker is divorced from, you know, their labor to a certain degree, there's
00:49:30alienation.
00:49:31Um, and then there's all kind of the labor value problem.
00:49:34Um, and so rather than a town full of people selling their goods and services to their
00:49:40friends and neighbors and all this type of thing, we now have, you know, companies and
00:49:44buildings and products and quarterly earnings fast forward 200 years and you have, you know,
00:49:49modern credit financialized, you know, industrial capitalism pretty much the world over.
00:49:57There's very few parts of this planet not touched by that at this point.
00:50:02How, how does that sort of pure human expression function in industrialized society?
00:50:09Because otherwise we're going to end up with Fords that, you know, every car is incredibly
00:50:14unique.
00:50:15You know, a tourist can come out looking all sorts of ways, depending on how the factory workers
00:50:19felt when they built it.
00:50:21You've got a red bumper and a green door.
00:50:28I joke a lot.
00:50:29I joke.
00:50:29I'm sorry.
00:50:30I'm sorry.
00:50:30We're this supposed to be a serious economic conversation.
00:50:32The key to all of it is the entrepreneur and the entrepreneur, what they're doing, what
00:50:39they're doing is, is, is making sure that the, what people want is what is being produced.
00:50:45So, uh, there won't be things produced, uh, that people don't want.
00:50:56That's what, that's what the entrepreneurs will do.
00:50:58And so I think, I think that's, again, the, what happens is that the, the, the, the structure
00:51:10gets, uh, connected to, to the state and then, and, and it, it takes on different forms
00:51:19and shapes than it would in, under a natural condition.
00:51:23Natural conditions is that the entrepreneur would, you know, direct the resources in the,
00:51:31in the, where, where the people's wishes are.
00:51:35And, you know, the entrepreneurs is, uh, connected to the, to the capitalists or is it capitalists
00:51:45themselves, they're, they're, they're finding the resources, financial resources, or whatever
00:51:51other resources they need to produce what people want.
00:51:54So they're basically listening to what people want.
00:52:02And so that's, that's how the economy unfolds based on, they're, they're the ones who are
00:52:07driving the economy in the direction that people want it to go.
00:52:11So, you know, uh, rather than it being pushed in a certain direction, uh, it's like, let's
00:52:18call what I would call forced development, you know, the, the, the, the political system,
00:52:23they find a pet project or whatever, and then they push all the resources in that direction.
00:52:30So, uh, you know, a town, it might've been a, a, a small town and then they, they decide,
00:52:37well, we want, we want, we want to, uh, uh, a factory here and then we need these roads.
00:52:43We need this airport, you know, all this stuff follows in, uh, based on this, something imposed
00:52:52from above, you know, that's not, it didn't develop naturally organically.
00:52:57It was, it was pushed into it.
00:53:00It's called, it's forced development and it seems like, oh, that's good.
00:53:03You know, they'll look at all these jobs or whatever, but that's not, that was, that's
00:53:08not, it wouldn't necessarily have happened that way, uh, or happened at all, uh, based
00:53:15on the entrepreneur in, uh, in that society or in that area, what they would have, what they
00:53:23would have perceived as what people wanted and then put resources in that direction.
00:53:29So, uh, societies would, will, will, when they, when they are operating under, in this
00:53:39manner, they'll, they'll develop, uh, organically rather than through, uh, a top down kind of,
00:53:51um, method.
00:53:54Yeah.
00:53:55Well, and I mean, I think we, you know, in the history of this country, I mean, in the
00:54:0119th century, we tended to kind of let that happen.
00:54:06You know, we kind of just kind of let everything go nuts, you know, sort of, you know, sort of
00:54:10thing.
00:54:10Um, but then also some of our greatest public works that power the economy were to some
00:54:16degree forced development, Transcontinental Railroad, the interstate system.
00:54:21Um, you know, sort of thing.
00:54:25Um, any airport not near a major city that's a commercial hub, um, you know, sort of thing.
00:54:29I mean, there's all these different, different things that have wonderful, you know, other,
00:54:34you know, benefits and even public, you know, service benefits.
00:54:37You can get an air ambulance and all this sort of thing.
00:54:39Yeah.
00:54:39I mean, there's all these kind of things that, that, that happen and, and apply, which kind
00:54:43of also gets me into how does one develop and build a society, especially when there
00:54:50are things that are very good for human thriving, but don't necessarily turn a profit?
00:55:01Well, what place does that have in the, in the system?
00:55:04Profit is, you know, profit is, is not just dollars and cents.
00:55:10Profit is, uh, you know, the, the, the, uh, site, their psychic profit that, that, uh, is, is recognized.
00:55:22So, um, a person could, I mean, if, if, if, if, so I'm, I'm thinking in terms of societies
00:55:32developing in, in ways that are, that are organic and natural.
00:55:38And so, so in a, in a society that, so like, for instance, in the divine economy theory,
00:55:45there's, there's, there's 11 macro, there's 11 policies and one of them is secession.
00:55:52Okay.
00:55:52So, so if, if, if, uh, and what that basically means is, uh, they, they're not, they, they
00:56:01have the right to not, uh, accept something being imposed on them.
00:56:07Okay.
00:56:08So, so if, if a society that has that right, and basically is using that right to, uh, to,
00:56:17uh, allow themselves their own expression of the, the values and the, the, the goals,
00:56:27uh, that are shared by the people in that, whatever that society is.
00:56:32But I don't know how, how, what we could say is a village maybe, right?
00:56:37So small USA, but it could be larger, whatever, whatever, whatever the, the, uh, I, I don't
00:56:46know if you could use the word demographic, but whatever the, the, the group of individuals
00:56:52and group of, uh, it could, let's say instead of a, a village, it could be a state, maybe,
00:57:00uh, a, a, a, uh, a province, something like that.
00:57:05So, but they, they, they've agreed, I mean, they, they have this cultural, uh, uh, understanding
00:57:13and, and, um, foundation that they, they, they, they value, they want to pr, they want
00:57:21to preserve it.
00:57:22They want to make it, uh, modernize it in, in the sense of, uh, grow, grow in, in, in,
00:57:31in, in qualities, uh, uh, in virtues.
00:57:35So say if it's a, a, a state that, that, uh, values, um, natural beauty, okay.
00:57:44Then, then it, it would want to, uh, make sure that, uh, that is, that's the, one of the,
00:57:55the, um, uh.
00:57:58A central tenant of their life there.
00:58:00Central tenant, yeah.
00:58:01Central tenant, yeah.
00:58:02So then they, they would, uh, the entrepreneurship that would be taking place in that province
00:58:09would be recognizing that's what people want, and then they would work in that direction,
00:58:15uh, by, you know, maybe, uh, I mean, so again, there's, there's psychic profit in addition
00:58:25to just monetary profit.
00:58:28So the, the people will, will, uh, benefit and, and feel, uh, prosperous from efforts that
00:58:41are being made in that province that, for enhancing the, the, the natural beauty of their surroundings.
00:58:51Yeah, I, I, when you talk about the, the psychic profit aspect, I feel like in many times in
00:59:00human history and society, um, that has been a higher or lower priority in different, in
00:59:10different ways.
00:59:11Um, the Medici's got a lot of money in banking and they started to, you know, complete some
00:59:17religious projects that had fallen on hard financial times in, in Venice, um, sort of
00:59:24thing.
00:59:25And it was a, a proud, a proud moment for them, but obviously served this sort of religious
00:59:29utility for the church and, and all this sort of thing.
00:59:32Um, and that was obviously, you know, that one can describe, you know, a better place to
00:59:36worship as being that sort of psychic, psychic profit.
00:59:39Um, fast forward to today in the 19th century, um, you had a lot of robber barons who delighted
00:59:46themselves on building, you know, theaters and museums and donating to colleges and universities
00:59:51and all this sort of thing.
00:59:53Um, and, uh, but today in the 21st century, we have an absurdly high concentration of wealth
01:00:00in very few hands.
01:00:01Um, and no, no one's building any of that stuff anymore.
01:00:05We're not, we're not minting new institutions.
01:00:08We're not founding new stuff.
01:00:10No one's building theater.
01:00:11You don't see, you know, the, the names of today's wealthy plastered on new museums and
01:00:18new university buildings and all this type of thing.
01:00:20They seem to have gone in a very, very different way in, in doing that.
01:00:25Do you think that is made our society worse?
01:00:29Is it emblematic of too much government spending?
01:00:32What is with that?
01:00:34What did you say about government spending?
01:00:37It's emblematic of too much government spending.
01:00:40Well, definitely emblematic of that because there's, that's definitely the condition we're
01:00:45in.
01:00:46Uh, you know, the, the, there's no doubt that, uh, the, the world is becoming more materialistic.
01:00:56Okay.
01:00:57Okay.
01:00:58And, and the solution to that is not to get more materialistic is to examine what, what
01:01:04that is, what's going on and what, what alternatives are there.
01:01:09Uh, and you know, I think, I think, uh, again, this, this connection with the, the, the potential
01:01:20of the economy as, as a divine institution.
01:01:23See, that's, that's what I think most people have not even the slightest clue about that.
01:01:31It is, that it's a divine institution that it was created.
01:01:34So I think a lot of people, uh, have heard for sure, and maybe, and most, and possibly most
01:01:43of them also believe that humans were created in the image of God, you know, that, that they've
01:01:49heard that they, they kind of understand what that means, but they don't really know that.
01:01:56Part of that unique human, um, gift was what makes them social beings.
01:02:07And that is the economy that, that, that institute that, that there's just like being created in
01:02:16the image of God is a divine institution in a sense.
01:02:19At the same time, because humans are social, it, the, the, the, the, the divine institution
01:02:32of the economy is part of that same creation, same, same event or the same, uh, they, they're not separable.
01:02:42So, uh, and, and, and, you know, that's why I was saying when, when there's not a trust in God,
01:02:48then humans think they have to, to do something to make, to bring about peace and prosperity,
01:02:57that they're necessary for that.
01:03:00I mean, that they, that they're, that they're necessary agents of change, where, where really,
01:03:08they're, they're really participants and they're, uh, servants of each other.
01:03:15And, and that's what just by acting, just by, uh, uh, expressing the divine, uh, essence that you were giving, given as a unique human being and cooperating with others.
01:03:39That the, the, the, the economy functions and, and brings about peace and prosperity.
01:03:48It doesn't need, it doesn't need this other layer of, of elites who think they know better than you do about what you want and what everybody else wants.
01:04:01And basically here's what it is.
01:04:04It's so again, if you, if you're following me about this idea that the divine economy is the divine institution, economic interventionism, which is what's been happening for centuries and it's getting more intense.
01:04:22Anyways, what that is, is that corruption, that's corruption of a divine institution.
01:04:31So you can't, you can't fix it by trying a different type of, I mean, a different degree of corruption.
01:04:40It has, the only way to fix it is to get rid of the corruption and allow it to work and see people, people.
01:04:49So the idea, so, you know, I think it's, you know, the idea of trust in God is, is really, uh, the basis of the divine economy.
01:05:02Because I think most people have examples of when, you know, they, they were in dire straits or they knew somebody was in dire straits and a blessing came to them.
01:05:17Okay.
01:05:18And you think, oh, well, that's, that's nice, you know, but that's, that's just one little piece of evidence of, of what the potential is.
01:05:31For the entire economy of the world.
01:05:37Hmm.
01:05:38It's designed, it's designed to do that, to bring about peace and prosperity through our voluntary social cooperation as divine beings, spiritual beings.
01:05:51Hmm.
01:05:52Well, that is, that's a very interesting, interesting concept.
01:05:58It reminds me of a lot of alternative communities that I've heard about and all that.
01:06:04So then kind of bring in a new and different, and different views.
01:06:07So I told everyone this would be fascinating.
01:06:08I said, we're going to go on a little journey tonight on, we're just going to completely off and find out this whole thing over here.
01:06:14And it has been absolutely, absolutely fascinating.
01:06:17I don't want to keep you because we're at the, we're at the hour.
01:06:20Okay.
01:06:21And I said it'd be about a half hour and we're about 10 minutes past.
01:06:24So, which is actually about the length of a normal Cameron Journal podcast interview.
01:06:27We do about 45 minutes.
01:06:29So, um, I, let's close with this.
01:06:32Why don't you let us know where we can find you online and read more about what you do?
01:06:36Okay.
01:06:37Well, divine economy, divine economy theory.com is my website.
01:06:43Wonderful.
01:06:44And then if you go, you see my name up there.
01:06:46If you look under Amazon, uh, and look up that name, you'll see all the books that I've written on the divine economy theory.
01:06:54Bruce Kerber.
01:06:55Yes.
01:06:56No, that's wonderful.
01:06:57Excellent.
01:06:58All right.
01:06:59Well, um, thank you, Bruce, for coming on the Cameron Journal news hour.
01:07:03We'll probably have to talk again in, in the future.
01:07:07And, uh, before, before you go and disconnect, let me let everyone know.
01:07:10Thank you everyone for coming to the Cameron Journal news hour tonight.
01:07:14I've, this is the first time I've ever had a guest on the news hour.
01:07:16I interview people all the time.
01:07:18We do two interviews a week.
01:07:19Also, we never really had someone on the news hour, but we're so glad that Bruce will stop by.
01:07:23So thank you everyone for coming to the Cameron Journal news hour tonight.
01:07:26We'll maybe have to do this again sometime in the future sort of thing, having guests on the news hour.
01:07:30So, um, thank you all so much for coming this evening.
01:07:33My name is Cameron Cowan.
01:07:35This is the Cameron Journal news hour for all my social links.
01:07:38Uh, you can look up my name or head over to CameronJournal.com.
01:07:41It's at Cameron Cowan on, on Twitter and Instagram and LinkedIn and at Cameron Journal on TikTok.
01:07:47Thank you so much, everyone.
01:07:48And we'll see you next week.
01:07:49Have a good night.
01:08:00Bye.
01:08:01Bye.
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