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Former Indian High Commissioner to Bangladesh Pinak Ranjan Chakravarty breaks down the International Crimes Tribunal’s death verdict against Sheikh Hasina and India’s legal ability to extradite her. In conversation he explains the diplomatic, legal and geopolitical consequences that could reshape India-Bangladesh relations in the coming months.

#SheikhHasina #BangladeshVerdict #ExtraditionDebate #PinakRanjanChakravarty #SouthAsiaPolitics #IndiaBangladesh #GeopoliticalAnalysis #BreakingNews #RegionalStability #World

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00:00what is the meaning of this verdict sir and how do you what next for sheikh hasina as you know the
00:05judiciary has been weaponized there with former judges and many judges have been removed and
00:11their and the interim government has put in their own people there so nobody is surprised by this
00:17verdict any bearing any legal bearing on us on india also to hand her over but there is a provision
00:24bilateral extradition treaty is there however there is a very very major exception
00:30in the treaty which is regarding political crimes or or political kind of charges that are brought
00:39and everybody knows that these are political charges that are so will it be a dicey situation
00:45for india like because we are all also dealing with the current government there and sheikh hasina is
00:50also uh is living here well i think the current the current government in dhaka will now say hello
00:57she has been convicted now you hand it hand her over but you know these are you know handing
01:02her over on extradition is a legal process sir uh sheikh hasina has also rejected all the allegations
01:10all the this this verdict oh and she is also called it a political vendetta sir but when we call it a
01:16political do you what are you questioning the style of probe or are you questioning the decision making
01:21well i think it was all fixed because uh the as you know the judiciary itself was overhauled
01:28and all the you know supreme court judges were in fact asked to resign at gunpoint
01:34so in in nutshell sir you are saying that the jamaat and other political forces they are playing a role
01:41behind what is what we are seeing now and how do you also see a role of a foreign hand say isi
01:48or some people also unless that cia well there is a foreign hand within quotes now you can call it
01:54whatever whatever you want isi cia there is a very strong belief that hasina the agitation conducted
02:02at against hasina was also had a foreign hand in it she has recently given some interviews to some
02:09media houses and which she has said that pakistan has still not you know apologized for what they have
02:16done in the past in this country but still this government is working with them and and secondly she's
02:22saying that she is willing to return to a bangladesh for politics in the future how do you look at this
02:29then to return she will she will have to sort of overturn this judgment for example how to do that
02:36that's a legal issue and pakistan indeed has never apologized formally the international international
02:43crime tribunal has given a verdict against sheikh hasina and she has been given a death sentence
02:49and uh to understand the consequences and what next in this case is with with us is mr pinak
02:58chakravarti and he has served in mangaladesh twice once at the capacity of high commissioner during 2006 to
03:069th so can we uh just uh in in my first question i just want to understand what will be what is the
03:12meaning of this verdict sir and how do you what next for sheikh hasina well i think the verdict is part of
03:18the political vendetta that has been organized and has been going on against the against sheikh hasina
03:27and the obama league so it is a continuation of that process as you know the judiciary has been
03:33weaponized there with former judges and many judges have been removed and their uh and the interim
03:40government has put in their own people there so nobody is surprised by this verdict
03:45and i think it means that now the awami league has to decide whether they will carry on the struggle
03:53or they keep quiet which i doubt very much i think the struggle will go on and the verdict will not be
04:00accepted by the above but sir what what is her future now like uh does it have any bearing on her
04:08because she is living in india i believe in exile and this entire trial happened in absentia so any bearing
04:15any legal bearing on us on india also to hand her over no not yet i mean i'm they there has to be a
04:24formal uh you know uh uh the bangladesh government which is which is uh interim government and many regard it as
04:33unconstitutional so whether they will now start uh will file uh you know extradition uh you know
04:41request with the indian government uh because there is a provision bilateral extradition treaty is there
04:48however there is a very very major exception in the treaty which is regarding political crimes or or
04:56political uh kind of uh charges that are brought and everybody knows that these are political charges
05:03that have been brought and the verdict is also kind of uh part of the vendetta politics so will it be a
05:10dicey situation for india like because we are all also dealing with the current government there and
05:16sheikh hasina is also uh is living here so do you think this uh this new verdict is going to add some
05:23issues uh vis-a-vis her stay here well i think the current the current government in dhaka will now
05:29say look she has been convicted now you hand it hand her over but you know these are you know handing
05:35her over on extradition is a legal process so they will have to go through the legality which means going
05:41to court in india and filing extradition charges getting an order from a court if an indian court orders
05:49it then of course the government of india will comply but then i don't think that's that has
05:54happened yet so we'll have to wait and see what they do and uh of course the fact that she's been
06:00india is not new she's been india since uh last august when she was overthrown and they they were
06:08demanding even at that time you know please hand her over and we said no you go through the extradition
06:13process i mean she was not a convicted criminal when she came here it was they who drove her out
06:21and they brought her here we did not do anything to invite her here to come and take you know refuge
06:28she decided and we agreed so sir as you said in your opening remark that she is going to struggle do you
06:35what what is your hunch like what is your assessment do you think she's going to fight it out with the
06:41current government there because they are banned obviously the next election they are not they
06:46cannot contest because there is a ban on avami league so what next for the political future of
06:51the country well i think if they want elections which can which will which they want to be regarded
06:57as free fair and inclusive and they will have to allow the avami league to participate you cannot
07:03have a free and fair election and inclusive election in bangladesh by banning the largest party
07:10of the avami league now you may you may give hasina the death sentence but the party remains they have
07:17even uh they have even uh deregistered the party or i think they have suspended its registration as a
07:24political party but you know if they do that then the elections are a foregone conclusion you know then
07:31there is nothing free and fair and inclusive about it but then does it lead to another situation where
07:38we have a lot of violence uh uh after this verdict and and the elections are postponed for example
07:45that could happen sir uh sheikh hasina has also rejected all the allegations all the this this verdict
07:53and she has also called it a political vendetta sir but when we call it a political do you what are you
07:58questioning the style of probe or are you questioning the decision making or do you think that the proper
08:04uh course was not adopted during this process well i think it was all fixed because uh the as you
08:10know the judiciary itself was overhauled and all the you know supreme court judges were in fact asked to
08:17resign at gunpoint almost so i think those things have happened they are on record now so i think the
08:24judiciary uh was uh a new judiciary was created uh under the same old ict but the judges were changed everybody
08:33was changed and then the then this whole trial took place how free and fair the trial was everybody's
08:40asking the same question after all who was who defended her and what were the charges there were about
08:48five major charges she's being accused and convicted of murdering somebody somewhere she's the prime
08:55minister she didn't go and murder anybody but they are blaming her for uh for having ordered that you
09:01know to the police and others i think the police uh the former police ig is also one of the uh those
09:09accused but he's become an approver so he's spilled all the beans so to speak they said they have gone
09:16through the records like uh telephone conversations where they claim that has he now ordered the the firings
09:23etc now i don't know i mean i'm not privy to those telephone conversations but that's what they claim
09:30and they will have to they will have to publish the evidence to so that people can see whether it has
09:36been free and fair sir you have seen bangladesh affairs very very closely so uh sir how do you look at the
09:44popularity of sheikh hasina there now since we have seen very violent protests against her of course
09:51there was also a retaliation a very violent retaliation from the current that time comment that time so do you
09:57think it is feasible for her to go back and fight the election or fight a case uh is it actually
10:05conducive and you have seen multiple times regime changes in bangladesh so what future do you see
10:12political future do you see for the country well i think it's at the moment it's impossible for hasina
10:17to return because then then they will be hanged she will be hanged she'll be saying okay you are convicted go
10:22to jail and i don't know whether they will there is any process for appeal i doubt i think they have
10:28removed the appeal process also and then of course uh then she'll be hanged if she goes back and that's
10:35bound to happen because the same ict had convicted the jamaat leaders who were part of the 1971 genocide
10:44so the jamaat has not forgiven her and i think they will want her hanged and that's the whole process and
10:50i think jamaat is really calling the shots now uh with uh with uh professor eunus in the in the position
10:58of uh whatever chief advisor uh but he is basically uh you know kowtowing to them but he himself is also
11:07very anti-hasina because remember and uh he uh also fancies uh that he must play a political role
11:15and uh he was politically ambitious even in 2007 when he wanted to uh when he floated a party and
11:23wanted to fight elections but then he you know his party just disappeared after some time but they
11:30couldn't win anything and then after that he was subjected to by the hasina government a lot of legal
11:37cases on on money laundering for and for not paying properly the taxes so those things i think embittered
11:45him also against hasina because he felt that he was being harassed and by these cases although these
11:53cases have now been removed because as soon as he came to power he he withdrew all the cases because
12:00he was in government and he he could do that so in in nutshell sir you are saying that the jamaat
12:06and other political forces they are playing a role behind what is what we are seeing now
12:12and how do you also see a role of a foreign hand say isi or some people also unless that cia
12:21well there is a foreign hand within courts now you can call it whatever you want isi cia
12:28there is a very strong belief that hasina the agitation conducted at against hasina was also
12:35had a foreign hand in it or in different ways and because a decision was taken somewhere that
12:43she's not not cooperating in uh in with that country which wanted certain facilities there
12:51in bangladesh etc you know these are all in the media already and these are uh these have been discussed
12:58and so these things are also there and we have seen the interim government
13:03moving very close to pakistan and there's a lot of isi you know you know traveling you know
13:09pakistanic generals and others traveling to dhaka uh during the bomb blasts in delhi for example i just
13:16read somewhere that they have also unearthed and a dhaka connection now that could very much be
13:23the alien let which has gone there and started operating from there or the jaish or whoever because this
13:30has been this is what pakistan would aim at aim for because all these years hasina had kept a very
13:37tight leash on their activities and now they are thinking that under this government they'll be able
13:42to come back and do all this and jamaati islami has always been regarded as a proxy and a fifth column
13:50of pakistan i mean everybody knows that so i think this is what is happening so we we have to keep
13:57watching you have to take counter measures if something really uh you know you know something
14:03really that she has recently given some interviews to some media houses and which she has said that
14:10pakistan has still not you know apologized for what they have done in the past in this country but still
14:17this government is working with them and and secondly she is saying that she is willing to return to
14:23of bangladesh for politics in the future how do you look at this to return she would she will have
14:29to sort of overturn this judgment for example how to do that that's a legal issue and pakistan
14:37indeed has never apologized formally i mean off and on they have some people in pakistan some leaders
14:43have said we are sorry or whatever but there has never been any official apology for what they did in
14:481931. this is on record and it's a trial and i think the the jamaati islami which was also accused of
14:57collaboration with pakistan has been sort of kind of walking back on that and saying you know no
15:04we have changed we want uh we we made some mistakes you know kind of an oblique way they have
15:10because they were the kind of a you know the the the tool which was used to commit genocide apart from
15:20the pakistani soldiers themselves who did all the killings and the rapes and at last sir i'm asking
15:27you in nutshell what i understand from your comments is that nothing changes much for sheikh hasina
15:35her status remains same this verdict will have not much impact on her in the future well personally
15:42she can continue to stay here and if the government decides that after the conviction that is an
15:48extradition case then then the case has to be fought in the courts and then we'll see what kind
15:55of a verdict but let me remind you that the extradition treaty between india and bangladesh
16:00has a clause which says that no extradition will be granted if if if uh it is it is presumed to be
16:09political crime or political crimes now this is clearly one that is regarded as a political crime so
16:17i don't see extradition happening so she will continue to stay here and i think the awami league will
16:22take the matter uh you know politically and perhaps uh do whatever they want to do in bangladesh and is
16:30the tide turning in bangladesh sir do you see any change because i have there is a is there a realization
16:36that the current government is not doing too good for the country well if you if you if you use the
16:42economic uh measures to ask questions nobody is happy prices have gone up things are not available
16:51so and the common people are indeed suffering there are a lot of i think media stories on
16:57how they are you know complaining about price rise and things like that and bangladesh's economy has
17:04certainly slipped uh although some although trade is going on and we have not really interfered in that
17:12and but there have been some steps taken to you know kind of a tit for tat because bangladesh began it
17:19so india had to take some steps you know these are basically non-tariff barriers
17:24on uh on export of goods from bangladesh or export of goods from india but then that's not too much but
17:31trade is going on i think normal they are dependent on india for a lot of essential commodities and that's
17:38going on because we we i think the government of india basically took the decision that you know the common
17:44common people should not be punished for for something that is political thank you so much for talking
17:50to us sir thank you so much sir thank you
17:59you
18:01you
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