- 2 days ago
This special report covers major international and domestic news, leading with the death sentence for former Bangladesh Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina, who was convicted of crimes against humanity by the International Crimes Tribunal. Dhaka is now seeking her extradition from India, where she is in exile. The program also examines dynastic politics in India, featuring a debate with Congress MP Karthi Chidambaram, author Tavleen Singh, and analyst Sanjay Jha on whether family-run parties are a social reality or a democratic threat. This discussion is set against the backdrop of an escalating family feud within the Rashtriya Janata Dal following a major election defeat. Additionally, the report investigates alleged pressure on Election Commission officers linked to recent suicides and covers a cricket controversy where Sunil Gavaskar commented on the Indian team's performance and pitch quality, stating there were 'no demons in the pitch'. Other headlines include the aftermath of the Red Fort blast and a fatal bus crash involving Indian pilgrims in Mecca.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today. This is your prime time destination
00:06news, newsmakers, talking points. Our big talking point is coming from Bangladesh where former
00:12Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina has got the death penalty from a tribunal. What happens next?
00:18Also the Pariwar war. Lalu's family split wide open. Our family-based parties running out of
00:26time and currency. Also Sunil Gavaska will join us on the Eden Garden pitch row. Yes, you're with
00:33the news today. India's only prime time show that brings you the news without the noise. But first
00:39as always, it's time for the nine headlines at nine. Former Bangladesh Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina
00:46gets the death penalty. The UNIS government calls the verdict historic. Bangladesh wants India to
00:53extradite her. Asina rejects charges, cries that it's a witch hunt.
01:01NIA makes a second arrest in the Red Fort blast case. Accused Jassir Bilalwani provided
01:06tech support for terror attacks. Home Minister Shah issues an ultimatum, vows to hunt down the
01:12culprits even from hell.
01:13Indian Army also has a warning to Pakistan after the Delhi Red Fort blast. Army Chief General
01:22Upendra Divedi says Operation Sindur is just a trailer. Picture abhi baqi hai.
01:2942 Indian pilgrims are charged to death after a bus collides with a tanker in Mecca. 18 people
01:35of a single family perish. External Affairs Ministry assures support to victims' families.
01:43Nitish 10.0 government loading in Vyar. Oats ceremony stated on November 20th in Patna's Gandhi
01:50Maidan. Prime Minister Modi to attend. Nitish Kumar swearing in ceremony.
01:54Amid's a raging family feud, Lalu Yadav endorses son Tejasvi's leadership. RJD Chief backed his son
02:03during a meeting with newly elected MLAs, even as his daughters have left the house.
02:12Dhanataka Chief Minister Siddharamaya meets Congress. President Malik Arjun Kargay says came to Delhi to
02:17seek high commands, not for a cabinet reshuffle. BJP mocks the Congress, says cabinet rejig to sideline
02:24D.K. Shiv Kumar. Amid's a pan-India SIR exercise, two BLOs die by suicide in Kerala and Rajasthan,
02:34each allegedly due to mental pressure. Cold body announces beginning of process in Assam from January 1.
02:43In a sharp reversal, Donald Trump calls on House Republicans to vote to release Epstein files,
02:49says Republicans should do so because they have nothing to hide.
02:54Okay, let's turn the door to the big story that's breaking. Bangladesh is acting head.
03:09Muhammad Yunus has called the Hasina verdict where she's been given the death penalty, a verdict that has offered justice to thousands.
03:16Bangladesh is now seeking Sheikh Hasina's extradition. The Bangladesh government wants India to extradite Sheikh Hasina,
03:25who's been here since August last year. The Bangladesh government says sheltering a mass murderer is an act of enmity.
03:32The Ministry of External Affairs says India has noted the verdict on Sheikh Hasina. The MEA says India committed to the best interests of the people of Bangladesh.
03:41So, India being put in a spot by that death penalty verdict there in Dhaka. What should India do? What is India likely to do next?
03:50Geeta Moana, Diplomatic Affairs Editor joining me. Ahmed Mabroor, Editor, Bangladesh News joining me from Dhaka. First to you, Geeta.
03:58Bangladesh making it clear that Sheikh Hasina must be extradited to Bangladesh at the earliest after this death penalty.
04:05is India looking at it via media now? Well, Rajdeep, they have invoked the extradition treaty between Dhaka and New Delhi.
04:13But this is a very guarded statement that's coming from New Delhi, given that they need to engage Bangladesh,
04:19and yet need to protect Sheikh Hasina in a way.
04:26Go ahead.
04:27And they also need to protect Sheikh Hasina in many ways than one. So, are they going to look at a third country?
04:36Is something we'll have to wait and see. For now, the caveat within the extradition treaty is important,
04:41where political prisoners, people seeking asylum because of political persecution, and ones who have been
04:49given death penalty or very serious crimes being charged against them in a court that by unelected
04:57governments are caveats within the extradition treaty. So, yes, India is going to use those caveats,
05:02not extradite her anytime soon. But they will be looking at options where India is not left in an
05:08uncomfortable position with a very, very near neighbor. That's Bangladesh. So, is this going to be
05:13another country? Or will Sheikh Hasina be hosted over here? And the respect that India needs to
05:19accord to Awami League, given that all other political parties in Bangladesh are never going
05:24to be pro-India, Rajdeep. They're always going to be anti-India. Right. And so, India needs to invest
05:30in Awami League. Well, we wait and see whether India will therefore allow Sheikh Hasina to stay on.
05:35There's even talk that she could be tempted to move to Dubai, a country with which Bangladesh has good
05:41equations. We are also joined by Ahmad Mabroor, editor of Bangladesh News. Ahmad, can you tell us what
05:47the mood on the ground there in Dhaka is after this big verdict? I know that the line isn't the best,
05:53but a quick response from you. Okay. First of all, thank you for inviting me. Right now,
05:59Banatish is quite peaceful. Actually, some people expected that immediately after the verdict, there's a
06:05reaction. There may be some chaos or turmoil or some violences, but so far, Dhaka is quite normal and
06:11people are leading almost a normal life. So, I am not watching anything abnormal or anything conserved.
06:19So, where are the Awami… Are you saying the Awami League supporters are completely silent at the moment?
06:25They haven't responded? Yeah, they are actually… They are actually working in the social media,
06:31I think, that is their position, but not on the street. So far, you know, in the last couple of days,
06:38Amalik protesters, they have made some small procession or some cocktail blast or something else,
06:44but it actually didn't affect the life, actually. You know that Dhaka is a very much densely populated city,
06:50and although Amalik has tried the label, but I think they have failed to actually hold the citizen life.
07:00Okay. So, what you are saying, no protest there at the moment over that verdict from the Awami League.
07:04Clearly, the government is fully in control. Amal, I appreciate you joining us for that quick response.
07:11We are having a bit of a problem with his line. Remember, all of this has happened on a day when
07:15Bangladesh's International Crimes Tribunal has sentenced their former Prime Minister,
07:19Sheikh Hasina to death for crimes against humanity after a government's violent crackdown on student-led
07:26protests last year. The court held that Hasina knew about the firing and used lethal weapons against
07:31the protesters, calling it a grave violation of human rights. Hasina has hit back and said that the
07:38entire court was a kangaroo court and has been a witch hunt against her. Take a look at our top story.
07:50Dhaka is erupting again. Streets packed with protesters, police in full gear and a capital bracing for unrest.
08:01Bangladesh's International Crimes Tribunal on Monday sentenced Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina to death
08:07for the crackdown she ordered on student protesters in 2024 that led to the loss of many lives.
08:14As the verdict was read out, the courtroom erupted with claps, cheers.
08:23The tribunal found Hasina guilty of crimes against humanity, including conspiracy to commit mass killings.
08:30The tribunal held that the former Prime Minister knowingly authorized a brutal state crackdown.
08:37The court ordered death sentence on the charge of Hasina ordering to kill protesters and on the charge of
08:42Hasina's failure to prevent atrocities.
08:48She committed the same crime, same crime that is the crime against humanity on another count
08:54for causing the killings at Ashulia of Sabar, killing of six persons. For all these three counts,
09:06we have decided to inflict her with only one sentence, that is sentence of death.
09:16And while the courtroom celebrated, outside members of a party, Awami League took to the streets,
09:27protesting the judgment, calling it judicial assassination and warning of a dark precedent.
09:35With tensions climbing, Dhaka is now under an unprecedented security blanket.
09:39Sheikh Hasina is currently in India, where she has taken asylum, at a time when her country finds itself at crossroads.
09:52Reacting to the verdict, oust Bangladesh Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina called the ruling biased,
09:58politically motivated and issued by a rigged tribunal with no democratic mandate.
10:05Bureau Report, India Today.
10:10And joining me now is a very close aide of Sheikh Hasina,
10:13Mohammed Arafat, former INB Minister of Bangladesh, joins me from an undisclosed location.
10:18Appreciate your joining us there, Mr. Arafat. Your first reactions to that verdict,
10:22which has given the death penalty to the former Prime Minister.
10:27Well, this was well predicted. We knew this is how the verdict is going to come out,
10:33because this outcome was pre-decided, and it was all pre-determined.
10:38So, therefore, the verdict that you see, this preceded the trial, basically. So, we are not surprised at all.
10:45You're saying you're not surprised at all, but the charges that were made were very specific. And this,
10:50remember, has got the backing of the UNIS government, the chief advisor to Bangladesh. Are you saying that this entire
10:57judiciary has been captured in a way by the UNIS government or by critics of Sheikh Hasina?
11:04Just take a look at who are the judges. One of the judges, Mr. Shofiul Alam Mahamud, he was never a judge.
11:11He was just appointed judge in the high court only six days before he was placed in the tribunal.
11:16He was linked with the BNP politics. He was the organizing secretary of the BNP's lawyers forum.
11:22Look at who's the chief prosecutor. He's the one who defended the war criminals, who committed war crimes in 1971.
11:27So, look at even the defense lawyer that appointed by the state for Sheikh Hasina, he's also part of the same team.
11:35So, it is a completely rigged trial. It's, you know, and the way they amended the law and reconstituted this, the whole tribunal.
11:44So, this tribunal was constituted under the Act 1973 to try the war criminals who committed war crime in 1971.
11:51This tribunal does not have any other mandate whatsoever, but they amended it without having a parliament passing that law.
11:58So, it is absolutely a farce. It's a sham. It is just a show that they are staging, even the judges, the prosecution.
12:05So, how do you respond to the demand which is now being made by the Bangladesh government to India that Sheikh Hasina must be extradited under the extradition pact between the two countries?
12:16I pay no attention to this demand. Who are demanding it? The government who sees power by themselves illegally, unconstitutionally.
12:24It's an illegal and unconstitutional government. Who cares about what they're demanding? They need to go.
12:29There has to be a democratically elected government. There has to be a democratic election, inclusive election, and the power has to go back to the people.
12:37The rule of law needs to return to this country, and then only there will be some dialogue or whatever you have to pay attention.
12:42It is a government... Unus is a...
12:45Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, go ahead.
12:46No, no, you go ahead.
12:47Unus is backed by the jihadists, the terrorists, the Islamists, the extremists,
12:53Jamaat who oppose the very liberation of this country, they have now captured the power.
13:00They infiltrated into the administration. They're running the country.
13:03Just think about it. When the law... the verdict was being announced, why another group of people were marching toward the, you know, residents of Bangabundu on road number 32?
13:13With the bulldozer... So, what do you expect the Indian government... So, what do you expect the Indian government to do? Because India is now being put, Mr. Arafat, as you know, in a bind.
13:22I don't think so. The Bangladesh regime, you're saying it's an illegal government, but they're putting pressure on India that India must extradite Sheikh Hasina at the earliest.
13:31See, there's no pressure there. They're just saying it, and because they have to say it just for the sake of it, I don't think so.
13:37Because, I mean, not only India, no other country in the world will have to worry about anything that comes from India's government, which is an unconstitutional and illegal government whatsoever.
13:47Now, so, India, including India, all of the... I mean, rest of the world, you know, world should only focus on to get the democracy back to Bangladesh and the rule of law back to Bangladesh.
13:57That's what we need to focus on.
13:58So, what happens next? What happens next, Mr. Arafat? What, according to you, happens next? There's talk of elections being held early next year.
14:05Yes. So, now, see, not only this is the kind of, you know, drama that they were staging in the name of, in the guise of a judicial process and sentencing Sheikh Hasina,
14:18but also they're going ahead with another rigged election, completely blocking Awam Elik, Jatio Party, 14-party alliances,
14:25those who account for, you know, more than 50% of the people.
14:28So, it is another pre-decided election they're going to go ahead with.
14:32So, basically, what we have to do is, with the support of the people of the country and international community,
14:38Awam Elik, through the political process and peaceful process, will try to get the power back to the people.
14:45And this is what we are going to focus on. We have to fight to get the country back.
14:50You are saying you are going to fight to get the country back?
14:52Most of you are in undisclosed locations. Many of you are outside the country.
14:55You think it's possible that you can return to Bangladesh?
14:59You see Hasina at some stage returning to Bangladesh and fighting elections?
15:04See, the thing is, you know, those of our, you know, the leaders, more than 100 MPs and the ministers,
15:11they're in the jail. They just put them in jail without any, you know, undenied bail.
15:17And anyone they find in Bangladesh, they're putting them in jail.
15:21Therefore, we have to be careful about it. And we're still, no matter where we are,
15:25we're coordinating with our activists. We're organizing them.
15:29And we're going to eventually do whatever it takes to get the country back.
15:34Okay. Going to get, do whatever it takes to once again get, you're saying, Bangladesh,
15:39as you see it, back on track. You're joining me from an undisclosed location.
15:42I appreciate Mr. Arafat, Mohamed Arafat, former INB minister, close aid of Sheikh Hasina,
15:47joining me here on the top of news today.
15:50Let me turn from there to our other big story, which is a political story,
15:54because it's barely 72 hours since the BJP trounced, or the BJP-led NDA trounced the RJD,
16:03which has suffered one of its biggest blows.
16:06And we've seen a seismic rift within the RJD first family.
16:11Lalu Prasad Yadav's daughter, Rohini Acharya, who left the family and RJD on Saturday,
16:15once again slammed her brother Tejasvi and his aides, particularly the aides, for the feud in the family.
16:22Lalu Yadav's family is facing a situation where it's now split wide open,
16:28even as he himself today endorsed Tejasvi Yadav's leadership.
16:32Take a look at Pariwar war in the Yadavs.
16:40Four days after the huge setback suffered in Bihar Assembly elections,
16:47newly elected MLA's of the Rashtriya Janata Dal met at Tejasvi Yadav's residence in Patna on Monday.
16:53At the meeting, Lalu Yadav endorsed Tejasvi's leadership.
17:03Sources tell India today, Tejasvi said he had not anticipated the election outcome.
17:09He took feedback on each seat from the candidates on reasons for their loss.
17:14Tejasvi asked the candidates to gather evidence if there was any foul play.
17:19Lalu's endorsements could not have come at a better time for Tejasvi.
17:48The family stands divided after the election debacle.
17:52The war between the siblings is out in the open.
17:55Daughter of RJD Supremo, Rohini Acharya, has leveled serious allegations against her own family,
18:14including getting thrashed by slipper and threat from brother Tejasvi.
18:17Tejasvi.
18:18Do you have any question?
18:19No, there is no family.
18:22No brand.
18:23So with this, you ask Sanjay Ramiz Tejasvi Yadav from there.
18:26There is no family, no people are left from us.
18:30They are not going to take responsibility for them.
18:33They are all saying over the world.
18:35When they are saying over the country,
18:38they are asking over the kannat.
18:40They are asking over the country.
18:42The whole world is wondering over the country,
18:43The infighting in Yadav Parivar came out in open a day after Archeri lost miserably in Bihar Poles.
19:05Rohini, in a post on X, claimed that she was cursed and called dirty and regrets giving
19:15kidney to her father.
19:19Sources revealed that Rohini and Tejasvi had an angry tiff over pole loss in front of Lali
19:24and Rabri.
19:25Lalu's daughter blamed Tejasvi and his coterie for the wipeout.
19:29Tejasvi objected to sister's barbs and reportedly flew into a rage, even raising his
19:35slippers to beat up Rohini.
19:37Mother Rabri and sister Misa intervened to save Rohini.
19:41A shattered Rohini soon left for Delhi in a huff.
19:46Just months back, Lalu's eldest son, Tejas Pratab was expelled from party and family after he
19:52revealed his extramarital relationship and deleted his post.
19:59Tejas Pratab has now come out to back Rohini and warned that he won't accept insult to his
20:04sister.
20:05Has a double whammy of a pole rout and a family feud delivered a crippling blow to Lalu clan?
20:16With Rohit Singh in Patna, Bureau Report, India Today.
20:19So as the family feud in the Rashtia Janata Dal plays out in the open after that Bihar election
20:28debacle, I want to raise some big questions.
20:30Are family based parties running out of currency?
20:34Are dynasties losing steam or are they still in vogue?
20:38Are dynasties against the spirit of democracy?
20:41My first guest is Karthi Chidhamram, MP from the Congress party.
20:46I appreciate your joining us, Karthi Chidhamram.
20:49Do you agree that family based parties are now subject to diminishing returns?
20:54People want parties based on meritocracy, not handed out from one generation to the next,
21:00as if it's a family heirloom or treasure?
21:03Rajdeep, most political parties in India have a family in their centrality.
21:12Except for I think one or two political parties, every political party right from Kashmir to
21:18Kanyakumari are family centric.
21:22This is a South Asian phenomenon.
21:24No, the BJP and the left with due regard, sir, are not.
21:27Let's, whatever else, the BJP and the left.
21:29Obviously.
21:30The BJP president is not appointed party president because he's the son or daughter of someone.
21:34Neither does that happen in the left.
21:36But in the Congress party, and as Shashi Tharoor, your own leader, was quoted recently,
21:41it was almost as if the Nehru Gandhi dynasty had ensured that political leadership was birthright.
21:48Obviously, you didn't listen to my, what I said earlier.
21:53Yes.
21:54I clearly said that except for one or two political parties, all other political parties are family
22:01centric.
22:02I did accept that there are exceptions, but vast majority of political parties right from Kashmir
22:07to Kanyakumari have a family in their centrality.
22:11That is the socio-economic phenomena, political phenomena of South Asia.
22:16Yes, it will change.
22:18It will change over a period of time.
22:20So there are parties which have families in their centrality, which continue to win at times,
22:25and there are families which have their centrality in them, which don't do very well in elections.
22:29Even in the recent elections of Bihar, if the, what would you consider,
22:34the late Ram Vilas Paswan's party, my friend Chirag Paswan, would you consider, do you think
22:41the BJP found him in a talent contest?
22:44Or did they align with the TDP, with Nara Lokesh, after identifying him in some sort of
22:50an entrance exam from the IIT?
22:52They are also family-run parties.
22:53The BJP aligns with them.
22:55So there are family-run parties which are successful at times, and there are family-run parties
22:59parties which are not successful at times.
23:00I don't think people reject parties merely because they are family-run.
23:04There are other political factors which come into play, why parties win elections and why
23:09parties lose elections.
23:10But do you agree that broadly it's subject to diminishing returns that family-based parties,
23:16in a sense, are a closed shop for others to occupy the leadership position?
23:20And in a new India, you need to move away from that.
23:23Do you agree that we need to move away from family-based parties in the fastest possible
23:28time possible?
23:29I think so.
23:30I think we should.
23:31You know, since you're a cricket fan.
23:33I mean, the greatest democratic exercise in India has happened in the cricket team.
23:36Look at the composition of the cricket team today.
23:39They come from aspirational small towns of India.
23:42Yes, political parties must change, but perhaps they will change, but over a period of time.
23:46So, this is not an accusation you can only make on one political party.
23:50There are many, many political parties which are still family-run, and I accept they are
23:55fairly closed shops, but that's the social reality of our politics.
23:59It's not just of India, of South Asia.
24:01Look what's happening in Pakistan.
24:02Look what happened in Bangladesh.
24:04Look what happened in Sri Lanka.
24:06Primary political parties are still family-controlled.
24:09Yes, there are times when other forces, I know that we've had a different kind of a political
24:14scenario in Bangladesh, Nepal and Sri Lanka right now, but I'm not ever suggesting that
24:19any of that sort of thing is perhaps going to happen in India.
24:22Yes, parties must transform themselves, but it will take time.
24:26As the Indian society transforms, that transformation will also happen in parties.
24:30Even the true example you gave of Communist Party and the BJP, the Communist Party is not successful.
24:35Yes, I agree that the Communist Party is meritocratic, but the people don't seem to be rewarding the Communist Party because of that.
24:41You know, there are success models on either side.
24:44You know, that is very interesting.
24:45You mentioned cricket.
24:46Let me take that analogy.
24:47My father played for cricket for India.
24:49That doesn't mean that I could play cricket for India, and I wasn't good enough because it was merit-driven.
24:54I agree.
24:55On the other hand, Karthi Chidhamram can become an MP because P. Chidhamram is a politician.
25:00So, it's spread right across.
25:03Across parties, across MPs, and worse still, family-based parties are in a way, many believe, working against the interests of true democracy.
25:15See, as I said, it's a social phenomenon in India where families still play a central role in the societal structure.
25:24It will change over a period of time. Yes, I am a legatee, and I probably got a fast track to getting a ticket because of my father's son, but that did not prevent me from losing the 2014 election, did it?
25:39Well, in the 2014 election, the political equation was not stacked up in our favor, and I lost the election in 2014.
25:46I won in 2019 and 24 only because the political equation favored me.
25:51So, just because you come from a political family, there's no guarantee of success.
25:55Yes, political parties have to transform, but you can't disqualify somebody only because they come from a political family.
26:02I accept that we must become more meritocratic, and the party leaderships must open up, but that's not something which is just confined to a political party.
26:10And that's true of the Congress party as well?
26:13How will you respond to those who suggest that the Congress party has also become a family inheritance?
26:19A party that was seen to be at one stage a mass movement has become a family inheritance.
26:23No one outside the Nehru Gandhi family, it seems now, can take up true leadership and drive your party forward.
26:30Do you agree or not?
26:31I completely agree with that.
26:33But the average worker in the Congress party buys into that leadership.
26:38But that is also a fact.
26:40I mean, while I agree that there is a predominant family which is the centrality of the political party,
26:46but I must also state that there is wide acceptance for that leadership structure within the party.
26:53There doesn't seem to be any kind of clamour to change that structure.
26:57Almost 99% of the party members accept that structure.
27:02That might not cut ice with critics or with the general population, but the party cadres seem to accept that.
27:09That's the case in the DMK. That's the case with the National Conference.
27:14That's the case with the Akalis. That's the case with the Shif Sena and the breakaway Shif Sena.
27:20The breakaway Shif Sena also is following the same model.
27:23That is the case even with the TMC, which breaks away from the Congress.
27:26That is the case with the Nationalist Congress, which broke away from the Congress party.
27:30That is the case with the TDP.
27:32We can go on and on, but in conclusion, therefore, in conclusion, when you see what's happening in the RJD,
27:39the family feud playing out in public, do you agree that it sends out completely the wrong signal?
27:45That's their internal matter, whether it's up to the family and to that political party to sort it out.
27:50We have seen a similar spat happen in the DMK as well.
27:53We have seen a similar spat happen in the TDP, in the TDP between father-in-law and son-in-law and between Cobra and brothers-in-law.
28:02We have seen that happen.
28:03So, when there are multiple family members vying for the leadership role, it happens.
28:08So, this happens in business empires. This happens in political parties as well.
28:13Let me leave it there, Karthi Chidhamram. You're being pretty candid on that question.
28:17I appreciate you joining me. Thank you so much.
28:20Thank you very much.
28:22Okay, let's widen that debate on family-based parties. Joining me now, two special guests.
28:28Tableen Singh, columnist and author, joins me.
28:31And Sanjay Jha, formerly of the Congress, now a suspended Congress spokesperson, joins me and political analyst.
28:39Appreciate both of you joining us.
28:41Tableen Singh, to you first.
28:43I just had Karthi Chidhamram tell me that family-based parties or dynasties are a South Asian phenomenon.
28:49The people support them. So, why should pundits oppose them, is what he says.
28:55You should ask him if anyone would dare to oppose them. That's the question.
29:01When you have, for instance, when it started actually in my early journalistic career with Sanjay Gandhi, under the emergency,
29:10where he was very insidiously brought in by Indira Gandhi and handed over not just the Congress party, but India, right?
29:19Who was going to oppose Sanjay Gandhi?
29:21In the statesman office, we would get instructions every day from the PIB saying, put his picture on the front page, etc.
29:28So, you know, these guys, they talk like that without realizing that nobody can oppose them.
29:35And do you think it's subject to diminishing returns, Tableen Singh?
29:40You spoke about the 1970s, how Indira Gandhi institutionalized almost the idea of dynasty within the Congress party.
29:47Now, everyone's taken a queue across regional parties, across every party.
29:51Is 2025 very different?
29:53You believe India has changed in some way? The voters have changed?
29:57I think they have. I think that in Bihar, the rejection of Tejasvi is a sign of that.
30:05Because do you remember that earlier on, it was Rabri that he handed over Bihar to, and there wasn't that much opposition.
30:13But this time they've actually voted against.
30:16So I think that there is, and now when I travel, I haven't been in Bihar this time,
30:22but whenever I've traveled and asked people during an election whether they like this, they laugh, right?
30:29And they sometimes, you know, because the thing with political dynasties is that they're very powerful.
30:35So, you know, I mean, when you have a daddy or a mummy who's extremely powerful, you know, people are scared.
30:43They're kind of bahubalis in a different way.
30:47But they cause much damage to Indian democracy.
30:51It's interesting the way you're putting it.
30:53Because, Sanjay Jha, are we clear that this is now subject to diminishing returns?
30:57Because we've seen a number of them return to power also, including family-based parties.
31:02We've seen the National Conference win in Jammu and Kashmir only last year.
31:06We've seen the DMK win, the Tinamul Congress, the Telugu Desam.
31:10Should we read too much into this Bihar verdict and what's happened to the first family of the Yadavs subsequently?
31:19Well, Razi, my view is very explicit here and an emphatic no.
31:26Like caste, family dynasty in Indian politics is a reality.
31:31And let's look at some hard data, actually.
31:34I looked up some data before your program.
31:37Out of the 5,203 MLAs, MPs, MLCs put together, around 21%, that's one-fifth of the elected people or even indirectly elected people are from family dynasties.
31:52And this cuts across all political parties.
31:55Very interestingly, Rajdeep, 18% of BGP's elected legislators, both in parliament and in states, are from political families.
32:05So this is basically, in my opinion, the hard truth that we need to accept.
32:11No, but is there a difference, if I may just intervene, a difference between people becoming MPs and MLAs because someone in the family is also an MP in MLA and family-run parties where the leadership is almost an entitlement to someone from a particular family than whether it's the Congress party or whether it's some of these regional parties?
32:30Well, you know, let me answer that by telling you, that's a very convenient classification, right?
32:35Which is what the BGP has used to target the Gandhis.
32:38You know, they come and say, well, you know, we have, we agree that Dushan Singh and whether it's ex-Jayati Raditya Sindhya and Anurag Thakur, Piyush Goel, etc.
32:47But we are, they're not leaders, but they could be leaders unless the BGP is sending out the message that these guys will never become the head of the BGP.
32:54But even look at Bihar, I think Tavli mentioned Bihar. I can tell you in Bihar, RGD is still the single largest party in vote share.
33:03Chirag Paswan, in my opinion, is the X factor of the Bihar elections. I don't know how people have missed that.
33:09It is his six to seven percent votes that have made the NDA the formidable player in Bihar in this election and highly successful.
33:18If you look at Akhilesh, Samajwadi party did remarkably well in Uttar Pradesh last year, and that was the year of the Ram Janambhumi and the Ram Temple's consecration.
33:29So I do believe that we got to accept the truth that family dynasties have a legitimate right to be there in politics for the simple reason that they get a public mandate.
33:41And I am not going to argue for or against it. I do believe that, yes, as long as performance is recognized, even within a family structure, nothing is wrong.
33:50But I will concede, right, that the problem with family parties is that they end up being parochial, they even become monarchies, and end of day, you will say this is not democratically a feasible long-term solution to the problems we have.
34:04You know, Tableed Singh, that's interesting what Sanjay Jha is attempting to suggest that he says if people choose, the argument made is if people choose these parties, then these parties derive a certain legitimacy.
34:21Do you believe that that legitimacy only comes from elections or does it come, or are they fundamentally anti-democratic?
34:30The idea that a particular post is reserved for someone from a family is anti-democratic.
34:36It can happen in corporate boardrooms. It shouldn't be happening with political parties in a democracy.
34:41No, but the whole point about coming into public life is you come to serve the people.
34:49When you have these dynastic parties, and particularly, and Sandhya is quite wrong,
34:54when you have a political party as your inheritance, it's very different to coming from a political family and standing for election.
35:02You own that political party, and then the state that you rule becomes like a feudal.
35:09It's democratic feudalism. It's electoral feudalism.
35:13And it has seriously harmed Indian democracy, in my view, because people who have a desire to serve the public are often rejected in favor of some little useless heir who's never held a job down before.
35:29So, you know, I mean, it is a reality, but it's an ugly reality, and we shouldn't call it legitimate.
35:35It is feudalism.
35:36But how will that change? How, in your view, will that change?
35:39We saw Prashant Kishore, for example, in Bayar, claiming that he was the outsider, that he was going to challenge these sort of the entrenched party loyalties.
35:48What happened? He ended up with a zero.
35:50So I just wonder, how is any of this ever going to change, even as we see this Yadap Paribarwad play out in public?
35:57It takes, oh, well, that's the hope, that they all start fighting with each other, and then they destroy themselves.
36:05Because really, what they're doing is, they've turned politics into, it's not a company, it's in a corporation.
36:14You have a right to hand that over to your children.
36:17You don't have the right to hand over Maharashtra to your heirs, or, you know, or India.
36:23Please, let's be serious about this.
36:25It is a reality. It's an ugly reality.
36:28And the quicker they start fighting with each other, the bigger our hopes are of real democracy.
36:35You know, so, in conclusion, Sanjay Jha, the word that Tablin used, which struck with me, is democratic feudalism.
36:41It is democratic feudalism.
36:43Now, you would hope that a modern democracy in the 21st century would challenge feudal tendencies.
36:50And you and I should be encouraging that, rather than saying, look, this is the reality, we can't do anything about it.
36:56Well, Razdeep, as a lateral, as an outsider in Indian politics, I actually came from out of the blue into politics.
37:03I should be speaking against the family dominance in Indian politics, but I don't, because I'm very pragmatic and practical about the realities of India.
37:11You know, it's good to think of a utopian concept, yes, but at the end of the day, I also recognize I've seen family leaders at very close quarters, and I realize they have magnetic power.
37:23I mean, it's some kind of an emotional hold, and that is the right of the people of the country.
37:28I am no one to deny the rights of the choices that people make.
37:32I want to make two points to what Tavlin added.
37:35You know, I agree that there are issues that we need to resolve, but I would worry about the fact that in our country, we don't address the fundamental problems that are much bigger than Parivarwad.
37:4646% of our MPs in the Lok Sabha are criminals.
37:50They have criminal antecedents.
37:52And Razdeep, some of them are serious.
37:54Around 31% are serious, including rape, murder, arson, loot.
37:59And we are okay with that.
38:00We are kosher with that.
38:01But we are worried about a family.
38:03And what's your second point?
38:04We need to be very clear there.
38:06The second is political funding.
38:08You know, if you don't, electoral bonds is history.
38:11And to my mind, that was the most corrupt mafia operation in political legitimacy in this country.
38:17So democracy has bigger challenges, in my opinion.
38:21Parivarwad is not such a big issue.
38:22It becomes very emotive because the Gandhi family is a low-hanging fruit.
38:26Everyone loves to whack left, right, and center.
38:28But I do feel we should address the bigger problems of criminalization of Indian politics.
38:34You make a good point.
38:35You make a good point.
38:36I'll give Tawleen the final word then.
38:38Sanjay Jha says, focus on the criminalization of politics, the capture of the state apparatus.
38:43That's where the real anti-democratic tendencies are.
38:46Parivarwad, at the end of the day, can be, in a sense, justifies.
38:50Because according to him, if that's what the people want, that's what they'll get.
38:53Should we be focusing on Parivarwad and making the Gandhis, as he claims, a soft target?
38:59He works for the Gandhis.
39:02He can't speak against them, okay?
39:04So I'm not...
39:04He used to work for them.
39:05But go ahead.
39:07You know, you can't say anything against the Gandhi family if you've had anything to do with the Congress.
39:12No, what you need to think about, Mr. Jha, is that why do they want to be in politics?
39:19They're not coming in for public service.
39:21They're coming in to make money.
39:23And to me, corruption is as bad as, you know, anti-democratic as criminals in politics.
39:31You know, those criminals, these are also, in a way, criminals because they are in politics to make money.
39:38There's no other reason.
39:39They're not there for public service.
39:41But that's not true only of families, Tavlin.
39:43That's true of a number of politicians who may not even be linked to politics, who are also corrupting our political landscape.
39:49So...
39:50Absolutely, absolutely.
39:51But, you know, these guys come with a head start.
39:54Okay.
39:55Let me leave it there.
39:56Give me 10 seconds, Raj.
39:57Okay, 10 seconds only.
39:58Yes, Sanjay.
39:5910 seconds.
40:00You know, Tavlin, firstly, I don't work for the Gandhis.
40:03In fact, I have been critical of them when they have gone wrong.
40:05You have admired Mr. Modi.
40:07But let me tell you, you have been critical of the Gandhis in your book, Delhi Darbar, which I read.
40:11And guess what?
40:12Maneka Gandhi and Varun Gandhi, famous Gandhis, by the way,
40:17are part of the BJP that Mr. Modi actually uses.
40:20And that's the great paradox of Indian politics.
40:23What's your point?
40:24What's your point?
40:26My point is that BJP is in the of dynasty politics like nobody else.
40:33Okay.
40:34They are using the Gandhi name, for God's sake.
40:36The BJP is not the personal property of a family.
40:41The BJP so far is not.
40:44Neither is the Congress, for that matter.
40:45Okay, let's leave it there.
40:47Let's leave it there.
40:48We've heard two sides.
40:49And I appreciate two very fine guests for joining me and putting their point across.
40:53Tavlin Singh, Sanjay Jha, pleasure to have you on the show.
40:56Thank you very much.
41:00Okay, let's turn from the Parivarwad controversy to another controversy.
41:04This time that puts the Election Commission once again under the scanner.
41:08Tonight's Get Real India story.
41:10Because amidst the ongoing voter list revision nationally, two boot-level officers, two boot-level officers in two different states have died by suicide.
41:20While a third officer in Bengal has threatened to do the same.
41:24Families have alleged unchecked pressure.
41:27And several other BLOs have said that long hours and an early December deadline by the Election Commission have pushed them to breaking point.
41:36The Election Commission now faces questions over workload and accountability.
41:42Take a look at tonight's Get Real India story.
41:44Suicides by two boot-level officers in two states, Rajasthan and Kerala, have cast a shadow on the Election Commission's special intensive revision of electoral rolls underway in 12 states and union territories.
42:08Mukesh Chand Jangit, a 48-year-old school teacher, took his life in Bindayaka on the outskirts of Jaipur.
42:17Jangit, who worked as a BLO, jumped in front of a train on Sunday.
42:22The family claims Jangit left a suicide note.
42:25They're blaming SIR workload for the suicide.
42:50Janganit's family accused the police of not carrying out a proper investigation.
43:19The police denied the charge.
43:21In Kerala, 44-year-old Anish George died by suicide allegedly due to pressure linked to SIR duties.
43:49Anish was found dead in Kannur on Sunday.
43:53The district administration, however, denied any link between Anish's death and SIR.
43:59Booth-level officers in the state boycotted work and took out a march on Monday.
44:19Another issue raised by the BLOs is allotment of areas they are not familiar with.
44:33Meanwhile, a BLO threatened to commit suicide at the Katwa BDO office in East Bhardhavan district of Bengal.
44:54The incident took place during the SIR form digitization training.
45:01BLOs in many states are claiming the December 4th deadline for submitting enumeration forms is unrealistic.
45:09Similar demands were made during the Bihar leg of SIR, but the EC did not yield then.
45:14We'll budge this time with Devankur Wadhavan and Shivimol KG, Bureau Report, India Today.
45:20Let's go to the great legend Sunil Gavaskar himself to get his view on the pitch controversy.
45:29Mr. Gavaskar, appreciate you joining us.
45:31Now, weighing in on the Eden pitch controversy, Indian coach Gautam Gambir claimed there were no demons in the pitch.
45:37Even as the likes of Saurabh Ganguly are already raising questions over the quality of the pitch.
45:42Was it? What is your view?
45:43Do you agree this pitch was unfit for Test cricket?
45:46No, I totally agree with what the Indian coach has said.
45:53Because there were no demons in the pitch.
45:55Yes, the oddball was going to turn on day three.
45:58I don't think it was a pitch where you get all out for 90 runs like the Indian team did.
46:06124 was gettable.
46:08And gettable with, you know, at least five wickets in half.
46:13But, sir, you are saying that this pitch was not unfit.
46:18But the truth of the matter is, sir, right from day one, we saw uneven bounce.
46:22The Pacers benefited from it.
46:24There was sharp turn.
46:25Puffs of dust were coming out from the pitch.
46:28It started crumbling from day one.
46:30How can we say that this was a good cricket wicket or a wicket fit for a five-day test match?
46:36No, it didn't start to crumble from day one.
46:41Not at all.
46:43You know, on Indian pitches, you are likely to get a little puff of dust coming.
46:50But, no, it wasn't a pitch which was crumbling from day one.
46:53Not at all.
46:54So, I don't think it is something where you could say it was a bad pitch.
47:03It was just that the Indians didn't learn anything from what Temba Bhavuma did.
47:08Temba Bhavuma showed you.
47:09Somebody who plays on bouncy pitches back home, that good technique, good temperament,
47:16throwing a lot of patience, playing with soft hands, not looking to jab at the ball,
47:21is something which can help you to score runs.
47:25And what did India need?
47:26India needed one batter to bat like Temba Bhavuma and score 55, knockout,
47:32and they would have got to 124 without a problem.
47:36So, it's interesting what you're saying.
47:37You're saying it's not so much about the quality of the pitch, but the quality of batting.
47:42Because, let's be honest also, Mr. Gavaskar,
47:44this is the same team which was routinely scoring 400, 500 runs in every match in England just a few months ago.
47:50So, they are not a bad batting team, surely?
47:54Yes.
47:55Yes, there is an issue when the ball is doing just a little bit.
48:01The pitches in England were pretty, what you would call, flat pitches.
48:06Now, if you want to play test cricket on flat pitches, fine.
48:08But if you want to play cricket where there is a little challenge,
48:13that it's not shut for the bowlers completely,
48:17that the bowlers also get a little bit of help,
48:19then you want to play on a pitch where there might be a little bit of grass,
48:22or there might be a little bit of, which will help see movement,
48:25or there might be just a little area where the spinners can come into play.
48:31And that is what will make test cricket far more interesting.
48:35But, sir, with due regard, the match ends up in three days.
48:39Now, we have ended up losing in India four test matches in a row against the top countries,
48:44which has not happened before.
48:46Something is seriously wrong, sir.
48:48Either the other countries are adjusting faster to such wickets,
48:51or as you said, our batsmen need to play spin better.
48:54Surely, we would have been better off playing on a good cricket wicket that lasts five days,
48:58rather than a wicket that reduces batting to a bit of a lottery.
49:02Whoever wins the toss gets a huge advantage, sir.
49:06No, no, no. This one was not a lottery.
49:09I don't think we should be using all those terms like this was a lottery and all that,
49:12because this wasn't a bad pitch.
49:14There were no demons in the pitch.
49:16I totally agree with the Indian coach.
49:19You did not...
49:20The Indian batters in both the innings
49:22did not show the resolve to try and stick around there.
49:27Look, you've got to keep your ego.
49:28In the change room.
49:30You cannot also be mentally into a space where somebody tells you,
49:35this pitch is doing this, so you better go and smash the ball around.
49:39No.
49:40Temba Bhavuma showed you how you should bat.
49:43And that is what...
49:44And I can understand sometimes, you know,
49:45team meetings are held the previous day,
49:48and you forget the next morning.
49:51But here, just an hour or two earlier,
49:53the South African captain has given you an exhibition of batting,
49:56how to bat on a pitch, where there was just a little bit of turn.
50:00You saw Simon Hammer.
50:01How many deliveries did he turn?
50:03You saw Keshav Maharaj.
50:05How many deliveries did he turn?
50:07He didn't.
50:08The odd ball, yes.
50:09On day three, you are going to get the odd ball, which is going to turn.
50:12But the point is that the Indian batters,
50:16did they show the requisite temperament?
50:18I'm not even talking about technique.
50:20You saw Yashashvi Jaiswal start in the second innings.
50:23Did you see the first three balls,
50:25the kind of shots that he attempted?
50:28Three balls, first over.
50:30This is what you play.
50:31Eventually, he got out to a very good delivery.
50:34That's another matter.
50:35But this is it.
50:36So, temperamentally, you are told,
50:37But that is not what test cricket is.
50:44Test cricket, you can leave deliveries alone.
50:47You can wait for the scorable day.
50:49You can look for ones and twos.
50:51How many times are you looking for ones and twos?
50:53You can't be looking all the time for boundaries and sixes.
50:56No, if you are saying there is a problem with temperament as much as technique,
51:02should we be making wholesale changes?
51:04Is this the IPL effect which has meant whole temperament technique,
51:08the idea of batting time no longer exists?
51:10Should we make wholesale changes in the team?
51:14Well, you can't make wholesale changes
51:16because that does not send a good signal.
51:19But if you want to look at the temperament of some of the guys
51:23and you want to then go by that,
51:25do you think that person has got the temperament as well as the technique?
51:29If the person doesn't have the temperament or technique,
51:31and I'm not saying Jaiswal doesn't have it.
51:34Maybe he didn't get it right in one game.
51:36He's a very, very talented cricketer.
51:38But his approach was, you know, in the second innings,
51:41was the first three deliveries were a little bit hard to understand.
51:45They were, you know.
51:46But I think what you really need is to look at the temperament
51:49and the technique that the others have or did not have.
51:52And therefore, you want to make your decisions on that.
51:56But, you know, with a test match with just a two- or three-day gap,
51:59you're not going to be able to make those changes.
52:02None of the Indian international players played domestic cricket.
52:07But domestic cricket is where you get pitches
52:08where the ball will grip and turn a little bit
52:10because teams are trying to get points
52:12so that they qualify for the knockouts.
52:15And so you look at the domestic scorers,
52:17look at the heavy domestic scorers,
52:19and then pick them for test matches
52:20because they are used to playing on pitches like this.
52:23Pick them for test matches in India
52:25because they are used to playing on these kind of pitches.
52:27So pick them.
52:28But you don't pick them
52:29because you've already got an international side going.
52:32That is the thing.
52:34You know, you're making a very good point.
52:36Pick players based on their domestic form.
52:39Maybe for the next two or three days,
52:41these players should watch your great innings
52:42in your final test against Pakistan 1987.
52:44They can learn how to play with soft hands.
52:48The way to play on a saw is sharply turning pitch, Mr. Gavaskar.
52:53No, I think they have to just look at what Temba Bhavuma did.
52:58Temba Bhavuma showed how to play on a pitch
53:01where there was something.
53:02Even our bowlers, Jadeja, Akshar, did not turn every ball.
53:07The odd ball was turning.
53:09That's it.
53:10Kuldi PSP, a wrist spinner, can turn the ball on glass.
53:13Wrist spinners turn the ball on glass.
53:15They don't need any assistance from the pitch.
53:17But how many of Jadeja's deliveries
53:19and Akshar Patel deliveries kicked and bounced?
53:22Not many.
53:23Yes, the odd one did.
53:24They're very good spinners.
53:25That's why.
53:26But that is why I'm saying, you know,
53:27when we're talking about the pitch, pitch, pitch,
53:30I think you should be actually talking about
53:31the batting, batting, batting,
53:32rather than the pitch.
53:34Okay, you've given us a one-liner.
53:36Don't talk about pitch, pitch, pitch.
53:38Talk about batting, batting, batting.
53:39Sunil Gavaskar,
53:41we may agree to disagree on this point,
53:42but thank you very much for joining me here
53:45on the news today.
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