Former Bangladesh Minister and Awami League leader Mohibul Hassan Chowdhury Nowfel accused Muhammad Yunus’s interim government of creating chaos and empowering criminals. Nowfel alleged that Yunus freed terrorists and rapists, failed to unite political factions, and conspired with anti-Bangladesh forces to topple Sheikh Hasina’s government.
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NewsTranscript
00:00So for the last 15 months, Mr Yunus's interim government has turned the country into what
00:06how how it used to be. He has made no attempt to reconciliate between different political factions.
00:15He has literally freed the terrorists who were convicted of terrorism related charges.
00:29Rapists who were convicted by criminal courts. The country is in the hands of a small group of
00:40criminal masterminds. He himself he himself claimed that it was part of his meticulous design
00:48that has toppled the government. Thank you for doing this with us, Mr Chaudhary. I just want to
00:52start straight with asking you the much obvious the most obvious question about the last year
00:58Q. It's been 15 months since the overthrow of Sheikh Hasina's government. Much has happened in the past
01:0615 years. How do you see the current situation in Bangladesh and what has happened in the past 15
01:13months? What are your insights into it? Thank you for connecting me to your channel today.
01:22So you've asked me what has happened in the last 15 months.
01:26We've all seen what has happened. Bangladesh was an emerging economy, a stable country with religious
01:36harmony amongst all the ethnic and religious groups. It was seen as a model case for development across the
01:44the world. What has now become of Bangladesh is basically that it is going back to how the
01:56western diplomat, US diplomat Henry Kissinger once said that Bangladesh could be a basket case,
02:04a bottomless basket case, a bottomless basket case. It seems like those who are in charge are trying to
02:12turn Bangladesh into what it used to be in the 80s and the 90s, an aid dependent, unstable country
02:21country with instability across the country, deep rooted, very difficult socioeconomic circumstance,
02:38widespread poverty. So this is how it was in the 80s and the 90s. So for the last 15 months, Mr.
02:47UNICE's interim government has turned the country into what how how it used to be. He has made no attempt to
02:57reconciliate between different political factions. He has literally freed the terrorists who were
03:10convicted of terrorism related charges, rapists who were convicted by criminal courts.
03:22I'm not talking about the political dissidents or politically charged individuals. We can discuss about
03:29them later about the charges they were convicted from. But the country is in the hands of a small
03:37group of criminal masterminds. He himself, he himself claimed that it was part of his meticulous design
03:48that has toppled the government. He was able to unite the anti-Bangladesh forces, the political dissidents,
03:58as well as liberal elements in some hodgepodge political understanding in order to overthrow the
04:11government of Sheikh Hasina. What started was a simple protest movement, eventually became an uncontrolled
04:19riot in which people were targeted and shot by sniper rifles, which one of his advisors have publicly
04:31mentioned that police didn't have such lethal weapon to target kill the protesters. And these things have
04:40happened. And after he had taken charge on the 8th of August of 2024, he wanted to uproot the entire secular liberal
04:50political ecosystem of Bangladesh from the grassroot to the top. It is not just about our leader Sheikh Hasina.
04:59It is also about the liberal elements of our society, such as musicians, for example, or actor actresses,
05:12Sufi shrines who have been known to be very liberal in their practice of religion Islam, ethnic minorities in from
05:23Chittagong hill treks to the plain lands. And most importantly, the religious minorities, our Hindu community,
05:32the Buddhist community, as well as the Christian community. So they feel vulnerable in their own country now.
05:41So the way he wants to, he wanted to portray it as that it is just a parge against Awamalik, which he
05:48never denied because he wanted to parse the party itself. Although, I mean, if you were to hypothetically
05:56consider that somehow responsible for certain things, certain allegations, but it was the people in
06:04government that you could just try and see what they have done, but not the activists, not the average
06:11grassroot level activists. They had no say in how the government was running. So he had arrested
06:17hundreds of thousands of our activists, journalists, professionals and put them in jail without
06:24trial for the last 16 months. So the whole of the country has now become a jail.
06:30This is what I want to ask you, Mr. Chaudhary. You were part of the cabinet when this coup happened.
06:39You have seen things very closely and you in the past 15 years, you had the ample time to reflect
06:45on what went wrong. Who, in your view, was responsible for all this? And do you see any
06:52mistake on part of your government? Like the use of force that was used during the protest? Can you tell
07:00us a bit on that? Yeah. See, when law enforcement is attacked with a lethal weapon and their police
07:13stations are burned and their members are killed in large numbers, targeted by these extreme elements,
07:24they're not going to sit down and wait for government order as to what type of weapon they will use.
07:31So they had to respond. The question is whether that response was reasonable and proportionate,
07:39given the situation. Now, in no way I find their responses were unreasonable and disproportionate.
07:46When you have members of the police forces being burned to death, a pregnant constable of the police
07:55begging for her life and saying that, you know, she's carrying a baby in her womb
08:00and she should be spared from this criminal crazy lunatic gangs and she was burned to death.
08:08When you face such kind of horror, what do you expect from the law enforcement agency?
08:14Given the sheer mammoth scale of the attack across the country and especially around the Dhaka city,
08:21they had no other option but to do what they did. And if they were repressive, they were
08:28disproportionate. And if they were hell bent on crushing all kinds of protests, we wouldn't have
08:36been in this situation, to be honest. And from the very beginning, we were tolerant. We saw it as a
08:42legitimate demand for job quota or getting rid of it. It was a matter that was decided in the High
08:48Court and the next hearing date was pending. And being in the executive part of the government,
08:56we didn't want to say that, you know, we will interfere before the court has decided. If the court,
09:01and we had assured to the public that if the court decides that the quotas must be reinstated,
09:10then we would pass laws to rectify that because it was our government which took the decision to get
09:17rid of the quotas, in fact, and the court reinstalled it. So if you are talking about our mistakes,
09:23it was in general mistakes, perhaps in terms of not taking preemptive action and not realizing that such a
09:34sinister plan was on guard, and they were all fully prepared. That was the mistake I would say was our
09:41mistake, not preemptively taking action. But when it comes to our exact actual actions, I think the
09:50responses were far less than what any law enforcement would do anywhere in the planet.
09:54But do you think it was just homegrown or not like there was involvement from outside also some big
10:02forces were after were involved into it? Do you think there were some big forces that were part of it?
10:08It's not what I think. It is in the media, it's in the social media. And also, if you hear what
10:20United States President, President of the United States, Donald Trump has himself said
10:25that money, US taxpayers money was being channeled into unknown NGOs and organizations. And the government
10:37of the US didn't have a clue, at least the government that we know of, not the elements within it. They
10:46didn't know what was it being paid for. So he himself cast doubt on this kind of
10:55fundings. And it's not just us saying it, it's he himself saying it, you know, and we've seen how
11:02Clinton Foundation has behaved post 5th of August, how they were celebrating the people who claim that
11:09they have killed people who had claimed I mean, not once they have said there's need for reconciliation,
11:16there's need for they need to investigate what has happened in terms of at least the killings that
11:22had happened in terms of whether it was an innocent citizen or a police personnel or a political
11:29activist. None of them had actually asked for independent investigation. What they had done
11:35was a was an inquiry by an office of UN in which member states have no say they have prepared a
11:42completely one sided report, calling it a fact finding report, although no official sanction was given
11:49from the UN headquarter. But some staffers at the Human Rights Office at Geneva had prepared this in
11:56collusion with UNUS. And if you look at the nexus here, it was the then Hillary family, which runs the
12:04Clinton Foundation. And we we have been told that somehow certain elements within the State Department
12:10was also involved. The then ambassador of US in Bangladesh, Mr. Peter Haas, who after his
12:17resignation or his tenure, he had joined a company which has oil and gas concession inside Bangladesh,
12:25Accelerate Energy. Now, this is a clear case of conflict like that man does not want to leave the
12:31country. He wants to stay there in order to complete the chaos that he had started in collusion with the
12:39UNUS regime. So it was, I will say, a privately funded mission where foreign mercenaries were involved,
12:49not just money. You've seen extremist elements in Pakistan, Lashkar-e-Taiba and and some other outfits,
12:57Jamaitul, I think, Mujahideen or something, one of the extremist elements within Bangladesh. And they
13:03claimed that, you know, they had shown, they've given an answer to Sheikh Hasina's government for
13:10what she has done to their colleagues, their militant colleagues. So during the entire events
13:17that were taking place, the name of one island was coming up again and again. That was the St. Martin
13:25Island. And Sheikh Hasina herself has alleged that US sought to acquire the island for the military base.
13:31Do you think that was the reason because then Bangladesh government was not agreeing to it?
13:37That was the reason of whatever happened in Bangladesh? You see, when it comes to dealing with
13:46the United States or any other country of that scale, of course, there will be disproportionate
13:53and unreasonable demands on the on the smaller side of the bargain. So it's not just the US
14:01who would demand such a thing, but also if it was another large country. For example,
14:07we've heard that certain European countries wanted Bangladesh to buy Airbus planes. Of course,
14:13given the country's reserve situation, it wasn't possible. So whether these reasons played a part in
14:19their decision, I can't comment on that. I don't think these were exact reasons. These were not the main
14:27reasons. They were used to escalate the situation and to stop the administration from stopping their
14:39elements from acting on a regime change operation. So these were all bundled up to convince decision makers
14:48there that it is a government which is hostile to you and therefore an attempt is being made to topple
14:57this government. So you need not intervene. We've had fantastic relationship with US government since
15:04the Obama time. Two Obama administrations, one Trump administration. I mean, we had no issue. Every
15:09government that we had ran since 2009, we had fantastic relationship. We had bought aircraft
15:15from them. We had made we had investments from the US Chevron and other large conglomerates into
15:22the into Bangladesh. It's not a US versus Bangladesh issue issue at that time. It was personal personal
15:29agenda of Unus and Clinton family. And Mrs. Hillary Clinton during her time when she fought the contest
15:38with Donald Trump. You've seen the emails which were disclosed where Mr. Yunus was privately donating to
15:46Hillary Clinton's campaign initiative. Money taken out of Bangladesh without any consent from the Reserve
15:53Bank, the central bank. And he was involved in all kinds of money laundering
15:57in order to facilitate Mrs. Clinton. So it was a personal, almost a mercenary mission, I should say.
16:06So they were hired people and the whole project was a mercenary mission.
16:13When Muhammad Yunus took over, he was touted as someone who is unbiased and freedom loving
16:19and he will change the country. Whatever is happening, there will be so much improvement.
16:25But we are seeing what is happening there. There have been there, there has been reported rise in
16:31communal violence and hate crime against minority. Number speaks for themselves. At least 2442
16:39such incidents between August 2024 and June 2025 have occurred according to a right group.
16:46How worrying is this trend and how do you see it?
16:50You see, rights groups data, I don't believe them. The reason being the number is too few.
16:58Rights groups are only reporting what is being reported in the media and the media is not acting
17:06independently. The media is controlled, censored and totally under the control of the current
17:12administration. So what the rights groups are reporting is literally almost 10% of what the real
17:18figures are. Okay, so it's the way the minority community is being treated in Bangladesh.
17:26It's not just as they are treated as second class citizens. They are not even given basic rights to
17:35stay in the country. And they're being asked to leave. And that's what had happened for the first
17:40three to six months within the country. And the entire Hindu citizens of Bangladesh, they rose up,
17:47finally rose up. They protested and they sent a message to the government that, you know,
17:52we are not a small number. It is a country of 170 million people. Yes, it is. But the number of the
17:58Hindu population in Bangladesh is 1.2 million people. It is far more than some of the European
18:04countries entire population. And it is not a small community. And with us, with them, with the Hindu
18:11community, there are so many people who are in agreement that they were being persecuted, they were
18:17being brutalized. And besides the Hindu minority community, how about the women in the country? They are not
18:25allowed to go out there in public without what these chaos mongers and the religious extremists consider
18:37modest. So they're imposing, enforcing their dress codes, their moral codes on the girls, I mean,
18:45irrespective of her religion. And already we have seen that the positions of music teachers and physical
18:54education teachers, sports teachers have been abolished in primary schools from government schools.
18:59And they've changed the entire syllabus structure in schools to facilitate fake news, fake history,
19:09and their version of history of Bangladesh. And turning the whole country into another communal jungle,
19:17where just like in Pakistan, that's what they want to turn the country into. Because you see,
19:23Pakistan shares a border in one side of India, but Bangladesh is literally within India, it is
19:31surrounded by India. And if you can create successfully a hate filled, a large portion of the of the
19:40citizens into hate mongering, communal beings, then it poses a major threat for the entire region,
19:49including India, including India, of course. But I tell you one thing, Bangladeshis are not communal in
19:54their by their very nature. They are trying everything possible to turn the country into a battlefield of
20:02communal forces. But still, they're not successful, they're not being successful. These forces are being
20:10resisted by even the religious scholars who find that, you know, it is an attempt to destroy the
20:18socio-cultural fabric of the country. And therefore, you know, we are rising up now.
20:23So, Mr. Chaudhary, you mentioned about forces trying to turn Bangladesh into Pakistan. What we are seeing
20:33right now, that is an irony, what happened in 1971 is, is not a secret. Everybody knows what kind of
20:40atrocities Pakistan committed, then it was called West Pakistan. My question is to you, how do you see when
20:49now UNIS government is cozying up to Pakistan, military officials are visiting Bangladesh, and
20:55there are talks to improve ties? How do you see it? What comes to your mind when you see this?
21:06You see, we never had any, I mean, of course, from the very beginning, we had problem with Pakistan,
21:12because they had stolen our foreign currency reserve, they weren't paying any kind of reparation,
21:18they weren't taking their stranded citizens, the Urdu-speaking Biharis in Bangladesh, back to
21:24Pakistan. So, they weren't doing any of that. So, relationship deteriorated from the very beginning.
21:30However, over the years, we came to tolerate each other. It was, you know, we had a bloody past and
21:40we wanted to, of course, prosecute their generals and their officers. But under the Shimla agreement between
21:46India, Bangladesh, Pakistan at that time, certain exemptions were given to their military personnel,
21:52so we could not prosecute them in our tribunals. However, later, when we started the process of
21:58bringing the perpetrators of genocide into accountability and to justice, Pakistan had vehemently
22:08protested, started their ISIS activities within the country, clandestine activities. And not only
22:15after, not only after we had started the International Crime Tribunal proceeding, but even before that,
22:21when BNP and Jamaat was ruling the country from 2001 to 2006, they used Bangladesh as a transit point to
22:28export arms and weaponry and terrorism into India. For the whole five years, Bangladesh was literally a
22:35transit point for Pakistan's, one of the major export abroad, which is terrorism. And we had,
22:41we had put an, put an end to that. And of course, they didn't like that. And because of these reasons,
22:46relationship was not good. I won't say good, but they weren't very forthcoming. They weren't very warm
22:53to us. So we were mutually, you know, in agreement that, you know, we can't do business with you. And in
23:00terms of trade relationship, it doesn't exist that much, you know, in between Bangladesh and Pakistan,
23:04you have the whole of India. And trade is just not possible between Bangladesh and India. There's
23:10not much to trade between us. Whatever trade we've had, it was done through the Dubai port or Singapore
23:15port or the Colombo port or whatever, you know, the shipping trades that we had. But this government,
23:20after coming into power, this UNUS regime, suddenly out of nowhere, where there was no public demand
23:25even. I mean, Bangladesh is not a country where Pakistan is warmly received across the society. It's
23:30not just, you know, maybe in Dhaka, in certain elite quarters, they have that, you know,
23:36romantic legacy of the Pakistan time amongst the Razakars or the collaborators or the beneficiaries
23:41of the Pakistani regime. But across the country, you will not find much sympathy for the country,
23:45for Pakistan. But out of nowhere, suddenly there is increased military cooperation. I mean,
23:51we know what Pakistani military is all about. You know, it's just a front for the ISI.
23:55You know, Pakistan militaries, most of the officials do serve in Inter-Services Intelligence,
24:02which is their main military intelligence service, which is responsible for export of
24:07terrorism abroad. It's not just my word, it's the Americans have said that also, you know,
24:12ISI was keeping Bin Laden within Pakistan. And such an organization is now allowed to open
24:19desks in Bangladesh. So after our government had started its reign, Pakistan did not send their ISI
24:27officials anymore because their cover would be exposed. So and now they're opening up their desks
24:33in Bangladesh. So for what reason? It's the sole purpose is to turn Bangladesh into a vessel state of
24:41the ISI. Yeah. And if these people, this so-called freedom of speech mongering, democracy minded,
24:50human rights selling, you know, these fancy, quote unquote, revolutionary, I call them rioters,
24:58if they were so keen on human rights, why have they not said a single word on Imran Khan, who is the most
25:06popular politician in Pakistan, who is detained by this criminal intelligence service? And why have
25:11they not said anything about the civil society of Pakistan, who are fighting this extremist agency
25:18of their own country? Why have they not said anything about the people of Balochistan, who are in similar
25:22independence fight like the Bengalis have done in 1971? Of course, they don't want to say anything
25:28about them because they only want to cozy up to the extremist element of Pakistan, which is the ISI,
25:34which is the military, which is the, you know, Punjabi elite of Pakistan, which is exploiting Pakistan
25:40for the last 75 years. This is not about principles and values and friendship. It is about turning
25:46Bangladesh into a vessel state. Mr. Chaudhary, when we talk about when the coup happened, there was a
25:54there was a big demand about election that election should happen immediately. The interim status of the
25:59government has raised question about its democratic legitimacy. Elections are in February. As of now,
26:07elections are in February. Avavin League have been banned from the election. How do you view the
26:12credibility and future of the interim government? And do you are in touch with any of the Avavin League
26:20supporters? Are they planning to context election independently? And do you have any other tactics to
26:25circumvent the ban? You see, election is not for any election to be credible and to be accepted across
26:38the world, including to the people of Bangladesh. It has to be inclusive. They complain that during our time
26:45we've held elections, which was not inclusive. However, I should remind your guests here in 2014, when we held
26:53one election, DNP and Jamaat and its allied parties, they actively boycotted and said we will not take
26:59part. It wasn't that we banned them or we stopped them from taking part. They themselves decided they
27:05will not take part. In 2018, they took part. They then complained of rigging and an election not being
27:13appropriately held. Yeah, that was their complaint. But we did not ban a single party in Bangladesh from
27:19taking part in the election. So it was open for everyone. If you choose to take part, you are
27:24allowed, of course. If you choose not to take part, we are not going to force you. 2024, we held another
27:29election. The BNP boycotted it. They did not take part. Jamaat-Islami boycotted it. But many independent
27:36candidates stood in the parliament during that 1068 MPs were elected who stood as independent candidates.
27:44So, I mean, it was more than number of BNP candidates which were elected in 2009 election,
27:49an election regarding which they have not much complained about. And for us, they are banning
27:57us. We are a proscribed organization. They have banned us from taking part in any political activism.
28:04Forget about election. So it is a collective punishment on the entire political ecosystem.
28:10I mean, it's not just Awamalik that has been banned. Awamalik has been banned legally,
28:15I mean, with a very stupid circular, which has no consideration of the law under which it was made.
28:24Awamalik has been banned. But what about the other political parties? Jatiyo party is not being allowed
28:29to do any kind of procession in the country. Then you have workers party who had, for many years,
28:36two to three parliamentary seats in the parliament, directly elected by the people,
28:41communist party of Bangladesh. There are so many political, Bangladesh socialist party. There's so
28:46many left and right political, right-wing political parties in Bangladesh who are now actively parched.
28:52So it's not just Awamalik. So it's not a question of whether Awamalik will attend or not.
28:56A large portion of our electorates are being disenfranchised by this one-sided election that
29:03they're planning to hold. So we are not going to let it go that easily. Our voters will actively
29:08boycott. And when I say actively boycott, I mean that it will not just be that silently they're not
29:14going to the polling stations. They will be protesting, of course, also. And protests could
29:18take many forms. You know, it could be active protests and it could be silent protests as well.
29:22So we need to wait for the time of the election. And also, given the law and order situation right now,
29:31even the BNP politicians are now thinking whether it is a gimmick, whether it is a trap that the UNUS
29:38regime has set for themselves, you know, whether it is a mirage to keep their hold on power for
29:43for indefinite period of time. So there is no hope for an election, even if there is one,
29:49even if they have a government in place post that one-sided election, it's not going to be sustainable
29:55government because it will not have the mandate of the majority of the people.
29:58India and Bangladesh always share this robust relationship. We had strong ties. How do you
30:09see now whatever is happening in Bangladesh? How do you see this relationship panning out
30:15in future, in coming days? What do you think about it?
30:20You see, Bangladesh and India shares a tie which is not defined through just
30:28diplomatic relationship or political relationship. You know, it's not just geography that surrounds us
30:37across Bangladesh, you know, India being the country. It is the cultural tie, the linguistic tie,
30:45the spiritual connection with the whole region. We have Bengali ethnic people in Bangladesh,
30:53as well as in India, in many states, not just one. We have linguistic ties with not just Bengali speakers
31:03in India, but also, you know, in the neighboring regions such as Northeast India, Assam and so on,
31:10so forth. We have religious ties, you know. Both Hindu and Muslim communities of Bangladesh have
31:17relatives on this side of the border, have pilgrimage sites in this side of the border,
31:21and over there as well, you know. People come from Bangladesh to India, even Muslims do, to visit the
31:28Sufi shrines which are in Azmir, which are in Delhi, which are in different parts of India. They come for
31:34religious education, for medical service, for educational service, for many different reasons.
31:39And India and Bangladesh had this tie for a long time. We owe our existence to the people of India,
31:45to the defense forces of India. People have no issue with India and never had any. It is a small
31:53portion of our society and unfortunately, they are now in charge of government. It is a section of
32:00Jamaat-Islami and a section of BNP and this Yunus party, the NCP gang. They are promoting a fake anti-Indian
32:13misinformation campaign. I mean, a disinformation campaign across the country.
32:18And through this, they are trying to agitate people. People aren't bothered. You know, people know that our
32:24Dal comes from India or Chal comes from India. Even, you know, we have to, we have to hold umbrella
32:31in Dhaka if there is rain in Meghalaya because the water flows through Bangladesh. I mean, there's no way
32:36you can live without India as India is across us. I mean, for everything, we are not just interdependent.
32:46You know, we benefit from each other. So one of the major employers of Bangladesh, which is the RMG
32:52sector, the raw materials come from India, the mid-management level, the executives come from
32:57India and they have done so well in Bangladesh. I mean, the industry has done so well thanks to
33:04collaborative effort from Indian executives, Sri Lankan executives, capital from Bangladesh and raw
33:10materials from India, which is provided for jobs in Bangladesh. So, so, and, and, and we earn foreign
33:16currency out of it. So it is a beneficial relationship. It's not a one-sided relationship.
33:20India-Bangladesh relationship is not a one-sided relationship where one party is the colonial
33:25master. The other one is a satellite country, you know, it's not like that. So, but these people,
33:30they have no commitment to the people of India, people of Bangladesh, and therefore they want
33:35maximum level of chaos, maximum extent of trouble. So that's what they're trying to do because they
33:40have no public support. They need a cause, some sort of reason, excuse to stay in power.
33:45My last question would be about Mr. Chaudhary. I know I have taken you a lot,
33:51large amount of time. My last question would be about, we have seen that the interim government,
33:57we've read reports led by Mohammed Yunus has sent a not verbal to India demanding
34:03Sheikh Hasina's return to the fall judicial proceeding. How do you see this move? And how
34:09should India respond according to you? Under international law, for this request to be
34:16entertained by any country, first of all, the prosecuting country has to prove that the trial
34:23that they're holding of the accused person is fair, is free, is non-biased, and it's not political in
34:30nature. The trial that Bangladesh, this interim regime is holding against her is entirely political.
34:37It is entirely biased, and it is through an illegal amendment of the law. This government has no
34:44authority to amend the law. They have made some amendments for which they themselves lack jurisdiction.
34:51There is no parliament to change the law, but they've changed the law through a statutory order
34:56in the cabinet, which itself is questionable and totally illegal. An elected parliament can simply
35:03negate it, can simply not pass it, and therefore the whole trial will be questionable and illegal.
35:08So, the very basis, the very beginning of this so-called trial is illegal. And therefore,
35:14no country on this planet will entertain this kind of request. Forget about fairness and procedural
35:20property and the other aspects of justice. And the individuals who are involved in prosecuting her
35:31are also the people who were in the defense of the war criminals who were indicted in the past.
35:39Whilst they were serving as defense lawyers of these individuals, they have now suddenly become
35:44prosecutors. Fundamentally unjust, absolutely illegal, and therefore Indian government,
35:49it's not just the Indian government. Even if she went to the United States, the government
35:53that wouldn't even entertain it. So, they are just trying to finger point it at India,
35:58because that's where she is. For many different reasons, she is now staying in India. If she had
36:04gone to Europe, for example, they would never have even entertained this request ever. So, now they have
36:09to, of course, say something against India, which is why they're now saying it. They know what they're
36:13doing is illegal. They know it will never be entertained by any country on this planet. But of course,
36:18you know, they're doing whatever they feel like right now.
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