- 19 hours ago
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Short filmTranscript
00:00It's Ben.
00:10Hey!
00:11Hi, Heather. How are you doing?
00:13Doing good. Doing well.
00:15Yeah.
00:15Well, since speaking with you, I've thought more and more,
00:20and it meant a lot to me that you wanted to hear my story,
00:24and that it was a really good experience for me,
00:27like a really healing one.
00:28It means so much to me that you would say that,
00:31because it meant so much to me to be able to, like, share that with you.
00:36I just keep thinking about how important it is to have more voices,
00:40but also how important it is to have more allies like you.
00:49I love you, and I will do whatever I can.
00:53I appreciate it, and I'm glad we're in this together, and I love you, too.
00:57Thank you so much, Benny.
01:00Well, have a great night.
01:01Okay, you, too.
01:02Bye.
01:03Bye.
01:04I mean, all I did was listen to a story, you know?
01:13That's all I did.
01:14I feel sad that I was part of the problem for so long.
01:24And I guess I know how devout I was,
01:28and what it would have taken for someone to make me think or feel differently.
01:32And I know deep down that that's what we're up against.
01:38I'm promising that I'll help carry the burden, and I'll be an ally and an advocate.
01:42But doesn't it, like, seem a little ridiculous to you that it's me?
01:50You know, I'm just, like, an idiot housewife.
01:55And I'm the one that's taking the time to listen.
01:59I just feel overwhelmed and horrified and scared and stuck.
02:12And it didn't even happen to me.
02:14I just want to do whatever I can.
02:20And I'm scared that I'm not enough.
02:26These stories should be enough.
02:29They shouldn't even need me to bring attention to them.
02:33I will never back away.
02:36I just hope that more will join the fight.
02:44We grew up in the church and were abused by our dad.
02:52And all of our bishops, stake presidents, for almost two decades knew what was going on at home.
02:59Nobody said or did anything to help.
03:02I personally could not look at the church as responsible
03:06or that they had a responsibility to me
03:09because of the way that I was indoctrinated.
03:13I get messages every day from survivors of abuse
03:17that talk about the way that the church had failed them.
03:23I'm on my way to meet with these sisters.
03:26They reached out to me.
03:28Their story is awful.
03:33And it sounds like the church just really let them down.
03:36And I don't understand how that could have happened
03:38so many times in so many different situations.
03:42The truth is bad things are happening
03:45and they're not doing anything about it.
03:48I want to find out who they talked to specifically,
03:51like what was said
03:53and how they could have, you know,
03:55not only fallen through the cracks
03:57but just been deliberately, you know,
04:00shuffled into a system that was abusing them.
04:03Oh.
04:06Hi.
04:07Hi.
04:07I'm Heather.
04:09Hi.
04:10It's so good to meet you.
04:11It's so nice to meet you too.
04:13You guys both have septum piercings.
04:15I wanted it since I was 16.
04:16Yeah, how long have you had it?
04:17I did not give myself permission to get it
04:19until I was 36.
04:21I mean, I totally understand
04:23that like not giving yourself permission for it
04:25and it's like I really think
04:26it's the biggest badass thing you can do
04:28as a Mormon woman that, you know what I mean?
04:31Yeah.
04:31I was scared to get a double pierce, you know?
04:33Like I hid it from my family.
04:36I am the older sister.
04:38I'm the middle child, but I'm the older sister.
04:40I am about four and a half years older than Jenny.
04:44When we were small children,
04:46she was the annoying little sister.
04:47When I was little,
04:48I had got a nickname of Minnie Liz
04:50because I would just follow her around everywhere.
04:53And if she did something, I wanted to do it.
04:54And if she liked something, I wanted to like it.
04:56She was the person who I wanted to be
04:59and my favorite person to be around.
05:03She has always been my example.
05:06As we got a little bit older,
05:08we definitely relied on each other a lot.
05:11We became inseparable
05:12and really formed a really special relationship.
05:17We've lived in a lot of different places.
05:19My dad was in the Navy.
05:21So I was born on Guam along with my older brother.
05:25And then we moved to San Diego.
05:27Jenny was born there.
05:29We lived there until I was about 10.
05:32Then we moved to this teeny tiny little town
05:34in Northern Minnesota with a very small branch.
05:37I often tell my husband who grew up here in Utah
05:40that I had a much more staunch-like Mormon upbringing
05:45than he did.
05:46It's really hard to talk about it in terms of beliefs
05:50because it was more like my entire sense of reality.
05:54I identified as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ
05:59of Latter-day Saints.
06:01And that really meant something to me.
06:04What I found both disturbing and compelling about your story
06:09is it just seemed like the church had so many opportunities
06:12where it could have really helped you.
06:14And instead, it just, it didn't.
06:17If you're comfortable, kind of,
06:18can you kind of walk me through it?
06:21There was never a time
06:26that I remember not being abused.
06:30My earliest memories are of abuse.
06:34A brand new baby straight from Christ.
06:36I came straight from his arms to this earth
06:38and you started touching me then.
06:40And that was, that was Satan guiding me
06:42and leading me down the wrong path.
06:44No, Dad, that was you.
06:46That was all you.
06:47You can't blame it on Satan.
06:48My dad himself told me he always knew
06:52he would abuse his child if he had a daughter.
06:56He never went for help
06:58knowing that he had that, you know, predilection.
07:01He just hoped he would never have the opportunity.
07:05So when the opportunity came along
07:07and he had a baby girl, that's what he did.
07:10Some of my earliest memories
07:13are digital penetration,
07:16oral stimulation.
07:20As I got a little older,
07:22it did move into a bit more violent,
07:25you know, full-on rape penetration
07:30and anal penetration.
07:32And I didn't recognize it as wrong.
07:36I just recognized it, that it hurt
07:38and I didn't like it.
07:41And I wanted him to not do it, to stop.
07:47The belief that we can be an eternal family
07:54and that that's what we strive to be,
07:56that is drilled into you
07:57from your earliest, earliest times.
08:03He would say things like,
08:04we keep this between us.
08:05This is the way that God wants us to show
08:08that we love each other.
08:10And so when he would frame it as,
08:14these are the right things
08:17to be an eternal family I believed in.
08:23He used the church's teachings
08:27as a way to make the abuse normal.
08:32My brother was the target
08:33for his worst physical abuse.
08:36I was the target for his sexual abuse.
08:38Jenny was the target for neglect.
08:41My dad abused all of us slightly differently
08:44so that we would feel isolated.
08:47so that we couldn't talk to each other
08:51and we couldn't relate to each other.
08:56And we would put up with more
08:58to keep everyone else from feeling
09:01what we were feeling.
09:06How would you describe your sister?
09:08Oh, like I might need to like,
09:10just take like one second.
09:13Sorry.
09:17My sister is the strongest,
09:22most beautiful soul
09:24I have ever known in my whole life.
09:27She is my hero.
09:28I would not be here today on this earth
09:31if it were not for my sister.
09:33I've never met anyone more empathetic.
09:36To have gone through what she's gone through
09:39and still want to even look
09:43anybody else in the face,
09:44let alone connect with them,
09:47is wild.
09:50Did you have any idea
09:51of what was happening to your sister?
09:53I didn't know details until much later,
09:56but I always knew that something was wrong.
10:00When my mom found out
10:01that my dad was abusing me,
10:03I was only five years old.
10:04She discovered an active abuse happening.
10:07I didn't really know why she was so angry
10:09or what was happening.
10:10It had been something I'd been experiencing
10:12my whole life up to that point.
10:15And so I didn't know it wasn't normal.
10:17And so she, you know, starts screaming
10:19and I run and hide
10:20because I thought I was in trouble.
10:22And her first instinct
10:25was not to go to the police.
10:27You know, she didn't think this is a crime.
10:29She thought this is a sin.
10:31And so she went to her bishop.
10:33We thank thee, O God, for our God.
10:38On my mom's side is extremely devout
10:41generations back.
10:43The church was so important to my grandparents
10:46that that passed down to my mom.
10:49That was her frame of reference for life, basically.
10:52Anything outside of the church is of the world
10:56and being worldly was a sin.
10:58And so she went straight to the bishop.
11:02To a believing Mormon.
11:05The bishop's word is the word of God.
11:08When you have access to a resource
11:11like the power of God,
11:13you know, you run to your bishop.
11:14We were pretty open with discussing it
11:18in our family, like, throughout the years.
11:21So, you know, and I kind of heard later on
11:23from my mom and my dad
11:25kind of what was discussed.
11:26And what did that bishop say to her?
11:28Essentially, you need to be a better wife.
11:31You need to be a better member.
11:32You need to read your scriptures more.
11:34Make sure that you're doing family home evening.
11:37Like, be a more supportive wife.
11:38Does that mean have more sex with your husband?
11:40The phrase that I remember hearing
11:42was to be more available to him.
11:46That's so gross.
11:47So that he won't be tempted to abuse his daughter.
11:50So you're the gatekeeper of his action.
11:54Yeah, like it was somehow her fault
11:56or mine for tempting him.
12:01Yeah, absolutely.
12:02They're taking all the burden off of him
12:04and they're making it this, like, bodily function
12:07rather than the crime it is.
12:09He gave him, like, a slap on the wrist.
12:12He didn't, there wasn't any
12:13official disciplinary action taken.
12:15No contact to law enforcement or nothing.
12:18It was, it was, like, six months
12:20of unofficial probation.
12:21Basically, don't take the sacrament.
12:22You can't say prayers.
12:24But he wasn't, like, you can't.
12:25They treated it like a, like he had drank wine.
12:28Yeah.
12:29Yeah.
12:30That's terrifying.
12:33Yeah.
12:33My understanding was that it was, it was said
12:37there's no need for an official report.
12:42It was very much the message that,
12:45because my mom reported it to the bishop,
12:47that was all that needed to happen
12:49and no further action necessary,
12:51because they were going to take care of it.
12:54He told him to go to counseling
12:56through LDS Family Services.
12:58He went to the office.
13:01He told them why he was there,
13:03and they said, stop.
13:05They warned him, essentially,
13:07if you continue with telling us
13:11what you're doing,
13:13we will be obligated to report it.
13:15So he stopped talking
13:18and then didn't go back.
13:20Stop talking.
13:21Go home to your daughter.
13:22Yeah.
13:22I think that that initial bishop,
13:25he mostly was concerned
13:26about my dad's salvation.
13:28You as the victim
13:29were kind of just collateral damage
13:31and secondary to, like,
13:32getting this man on the road to righteousness.
13:35Mm-hmm.
13:35It's terrible.
13:38I mean, there's not even a word.
13:39I just, I don't have a word.
13:41There is no word.
13:43A bishop looking in the eyes of a five-year-old
13:46who he knows is being raped,
13:49patting her on the head
13:50and sending her home with her rapist.
13:52And every bishop is called
13:53by divine inspiration.
13:54Right.
13:55If he was inspired by God,
13:58why wasn't he inspired
14:00to get us out of that situation?
14:02Happy birthday to you.
14:06Happy birthday to you.
14:08The abuse never stopped.
14:10It didn't even slow.
14:12It just continued
14:13and then progressed, you know,
14:16to become more violent.
14:18That has definitely been a source of rage
14:28and even just a source of confusion.
14:35Like, how could this have happened?
14:37And the bishop had the opportunity,
14:41obligation even,
14:43to report the abuse.
14:45My mom had the obligation
14:48to report the abuse.
14:50He was sent to counseling
14:51who had the obligation
14:54to report the abuse.
14:57And, you know, even going further,
14:58if the stake president knew about it
15:00at that initial time,
15:02I was five years old.
15:04Abuse had been happening
15:05to me for five years.
15:06If it had been reported
15:08at that time,
15:09there is the potential
15:11that it could have stopped there.
15:13Because it wasn't,
15:16I was then subjected
15:18to 13 more years of abuse.
15:24Even more horrifying
15:25is to realize
15:26is it wasn't, you know,
15:28it wasn't just that one bishop.
15:30Mm-mm.
15:30Because that was just the first time
15:32that, you know,
15:33my mom went to her priesthood leader
15:35for help.
15:40Yeah, it's a big day.
15:41That's right.
15:42It's a big day.
15:44I'm gonna get baptized.
15:46You're gonna get baptized by who?
15:48My dad.
15:50Well, isn't that nice?
15:55After the very first time
15:56she found out
15:57and he had that slap on the wrist,
15:58he was just a full member again.
16:00You keep saying slap on the wrist.
16:01It's like, I cannot believe
16:03that that's all he had.
16:06Mm-hmm.
16:06It was after his, you know,
16:08six months of not taking the sacrament,
16:09then he just was a full member again.
16:11He actually did my baptism.
16:13Like, he just,
16:15he was just a regular upstanding.
16:16He baptized you?
16:17Oh, yeah.
16:18Yeah.
16:19And he was still abusing you?
16:20Oh, yeah.
16:21Mm-hmm.
16:22The father's the priesthood leader
16:23of the family,
16:24so he's doing the priesthood work
16:27for the family.
16:29Well, we got our newest member
16:31of the Bonita First Ward here,
16:33Elizabeth.
16:34I'm really proud of her.
16:36I can't imagine how that would change your reality,
16:44especially when you've told people he's gotten caught
16:47and no one's done anything about it.
16:50I really wish that I could go back
16:52and hug that little girl
16:53and just be like,
16:55it's okay to be happy.
16:58Even though these really bad things are going on,
17:00you're finding the joy in your life right now,
17:02and that's okay,
17:04because sometimes I feel shame for that.
17:06Like, why didn't I act in a way
17:07that other people could see that I was hurting?
17:10But also, I look back and I think,
17:12wait a minute,
17:12I didn't need to let people know
17:14in other subtle ways
17:16because we fucking told them to their faces.
17:18In black and white words,
17:20so they couldn't say,
17:20well, she seems fine to me.
17:23Before the age of eight,
17:24you are incapable of sin.
17:26Once you turn eight years old,
17:28you are now capable of sin,
17:30and that's why you need baptism.
17:32The idea of being capable of sin
17:35made me question what he was doing.
17:39Is it wrong?
17:39But part of the reason
17:43why I complied sometimes
17:45was so that he wouldn't
17:47look for the opportunity elsewhere.
17:51I couldn't imagine him doing that
17:54to anyone else,
17:56but especially not to my sister,
17:59my little sister,
18:01who was just little.
18:03She was just so little.
18:06I couldn't let that happen.
18:09The idea of a premortal existence
18:13is a huge part of the doctrine.
18:17The idea that we chose
18:21to come to our family.
18:23We knew ahead of time,
18:26as spirits,
18:27a general idea of what sort of things
18:30we would be faced with
18:31because I would have been,
18:32you know, watching my family
18:33that I'm going to come into,
18:34and I still chose to come here.
18:38I still chose this family.
18:40And for a long time,
18:41I thought it was because
18:43I can handle it.
18:44I must be really tough.
18:46I must be really valiant.
18:47I must be really special
18:49because God's asking me
18:52to do this really difficult thing.
18:54And so if I don't do it well,
18:56I'm going to disappoint him.
18:58He's expecting me to come back
19:00and thank him
19:02for the opportunity
19:05to have lived a mortal life.
19:09I'm assuming no one ever said,
19:11take your kids and leave him?
19:13No.
19:15When my mom married my dad,
19:17she was very explicitly told
19:19by my grandparents,
19:21this is a forever thing.
19:22You are being eternally sealed
19:24to this man.
19:25You cannot come home.
19:26Not too long after
19:29she had found out
19:31that my dad was abusing me,
19:32we went out to Minnesota
19:33for a family reunion.
19:36She was in turmoil
19:37the whole time,
19:39considering maybe I should
19:42stay here.
19:43Maybe I don't have to go back.
19:46But because of the way
19:48that my grandparents framed
19:50this marriage to her,
19:53she felt it wasn't safe
19:55to go to them
19:56and say,
19:57I really need your help.
20:00I believe that my mom
20:02was a good Mormon
20:03and that meant
20:05obeying your priesthood leaders.
20:08And the priesthood leaders
20:10said that they would handle it.
20:13Honestly, I think that
20:14she truly believed
20:15that he's been caught.
20:17He's not going to do it again
20:18because that's what
20:19repentance is for.
20:21You stop doing the thing
20:22that you were doing
20:23and you repent of it.
20:24And because he had then
20:25completed whatever
20:26this initial bishop's...
20:28His penance.
20:29Yes.
20:29In her mind,
20:31he wasn't going to do it again.
20:32So she just,
20:33for five years,
20:34just trusted him.
20:35Trusted my dad
20:36that he had stopped.
20:37And then when I was 10,
20:39she discovered
20:40the abuse again.
20:42When I was 10,
20:50I have a very vivid memory
20:52of the active abuse
20:54that was happening
20:55when my mom caught
20:57my dad again.
20:59It was the middle of the day.
21:01She had gone somewhere,
21:03I don't know,
21:03grocery shopping,
21:04something,
21:05had come home earlier
21:06than he was expecting.
21:07He had me in the bedroom
21:09and was performing
21:12oral sex on me.
21:15And my mom's,
21:15you know,
21:16storms in the room.
21:17I'm crying.
21:20I can't say anything
21:21and all I do
21:22is I lift my skirt
21:23to show that
21:24I don't have any panties on.
21:28My mom went
21:29to the priesthood again
21:30and this time
21:33they took it
21:33a bit more seriously.
21:35This time
21:36he was excommunicated.
21:37And if you're excommunicated
21:39in that fashion,
21:39I'm assuming he had
21:40then 12,
21:42a disciplinary council
21:43of 12 area representatives,
21:45the whole state presidency,
21:46the entire disciplinary council,
21:48all of those priesthood leaders knew.
21:50Excommunication doesn't do anything.
21:52It gives them plausible deniability
21:54of anything he does
21:55and also some enmity
21:57so that they can say,
21:58well,
21:58he wasn't a member
21:59of the church.
21:59No one called the police again.
22:02And this time
22:03so many more people knew.
22:05The church views excommunication
22:09as part of the repentance process.
22:12When there is a serious enough sin
22:13to require excommunication,
22:16it has to happen
22:17so that they can fully repent
22:19and then be rebaptized
22:20as a member.
22:24With the excommunication,
22:25with all of those priesthood leaders
22:27knowing not one of them
22:29went to law enforcement,
22:31not one of them thought
22:33it might be a good idea
22:35to maybe protect
22:37the other children
22:38that he had access to
22:40and warn the members
22:41of the church
22:42that he was still
22:43actively attending.
22:45All I'm hearing
22:46is like them saying,
22:47whatever happened to Lizzie
22:48doesn't matter.
22:49What matters
22:50is what happens to him.
22:51Yeah.
22:52And we've taken care of him.
22:53So like,
22:53I can't imagine as a victim
22:55feeling re-victimized
22:57every time
22:57that it doesn't matter
22:58that you're abused.
22:59Doesn't matter what he did.
23:00And it doesn't matter
23:02if you,
23:03it doesn't matter.
23:04I think one of the issues
23:06is when bishops
23:07only see themselves
23:08as these spiritual leaders
23:10because I think that
23:12once he'd been excommunicated,
23:14they felt that was
23:15the end of their responsibility.
23:16The church leadership,
23:17the top,
23:18you know,
23:18leadership,
23:19as long as they were doing
23:20what,
23:20you know,
23:21they said,
23:22then that's what
23:24they were supposed
23:24to be doing.
23:25And there's no room
23:26left for your own moral.
23:27There's no personal choice.
23:28No personal responsibility
23:30attached to those decisions
23:31because it comes
23:32from the top down.
23:33I mean,
23:34that's how I felt
23:34growing up.
23:35Like I didn't,
23:35I had already made
23:36that choice
23:36when I got baptized
23:37so now every other choice
23:38was already made.
23:39Yeah.
23:42Once my mom realized
23:44that he didn't stop
23:46and wasn't going to stop
23:47but she was still,
23:49you know,
23:50counseled to stay,
23:51she thought,
23:52okay,
23:53all I have to do
23:54is just make sure
23:56that he's never alone
23:57with her.
23:57It was her job
23:59to keep him in check.
24:00It was her job
24:01to keep him away
24:02from Elizabeth
24:03and she spent years
24:05trying to do that
24:06and failing
24:08because she was a human being
24:09who needed to sleep.
24:11I heard a story similar
24:12where that burden
24:14was put on the wife
24:15and so she just
24:15started sleeping
24:16in front of her child's door
24:18on the carpet.
24:20How do you ask
24:21that of someone?
24:22When we moved
24:24to Minnesota,
24:25my mom took my dad
24:27and met with the bishop.
24:28Just to say,
24:29I'm working on
24:30coming back to church?
24:31It was a front.
24:33I think it was to help him hide.
24:34The veneer of perfection,
24:36the perfect little Mormon family,
24:38we couldn't have that
24:39without the father
24:40and husband.
24:41I know all about that, yeah.
24:43Nobody could know
24:44that he wasn't a member.
24:45Only the leaders knew
24:47and all the rest
24:48of the members
24:48of the church didn't.
24:50So you guys
24:50were going to church
24:51every Sunday
24:51throughout all of this,
24:53never missed a week.
24:55So did your dad
24:55go to church with you guys?
24:57Yeah.
24:57He even wore
24:59certain undershirts
25:01that would make it look
25:02like he was wearing garments.
25:04The people
25:05who he interacted
25:06with at church
25:07had no idea
25:08of what he was doing
25:09at home,
25:10but because the leadership
25:11knew and didn't
25:11do anything about it,
25:13he was able to form
25:14those bonds
25:14and friendships
25:15under false pretenses.
25:17They had no idea
25:18that they were friends
25:20with a pedophile
25:21who could potentially
25:22harm their children.
25:23Your dad's already
25:24excommunicated,
25:25but you're not allowed
25:27to talk about it.
25:28They reinforced
25:29to you as the victim
25:30and child
25:30a code of silence
25:32to protect him.
25:33Oh, absolutely.
25:35Which would make,
25:36I mean,
25:36if I were in your position
25:37more reluctant
25:39to say he hasn't stopped,
25:41the excommunication
25:42didn't scare him straight.
25:44It took her a long time,
25:46but my mom started
25:47questioning that message.
25:52There was a lot of shifts
25:54in dynamics in our family.
25:56One of the times
25:56was when online chat rooms
25:58became really popular.
26:01My mom started chatting
26:03in these chat rooms
26:04and with that,
26:06you know,
26:06veil of anonymity,
26:08she was able to talk
26:10about what was going on
26:11at home.
26:11People were validating
26:12her finally,
26:13validating her thoughts
26:15of this is not right,
26:16this is horrible,
26:17and really being horrified
26:20by what she was saying.
26:22And I don't know that she
26:24really expected that reaction.
26:25But I don't give her
26:29a lot of grace
26:30for this time period
26:31because she left us alone
26:35with him
26:36so she could figure it out.
26:38So she left?
26:39Yeah.
26:40Our mom had left us there
26:43with my dad
26:44and had gone to Ireland
26:46to meet someone
26:49that she had met
26:50in one of the chat rooms.
26:52At that time,
26:52she wasn't thinking
26:53about how we had been feeling.
26:56She only was reflecting
26:58on how she had been treated
27:00and how she was feeling.
27:02And so she kind of abandoned us.
27:05That's the summer
27:06that Liz and I
27:06got really close
27:07and protected each other
27:10to the best of our ability.
27:12As a 13-year-old
27:13and a 17-year-old, yeah.
27:16So how did it eventually stop?
27:18As I got older,
27:20the abuse changed.
27:22The risk of pregnancy
27:23was enough of a deterrent
27:25to stop the rape.
27:27My abuse turned
27:28to a more mental
27:29and emotional sexual abuse.
27:31And the abuse
27:33definitely changed
27:34for my sister.
27:38After all the pain
27:39that you caused me,
27:39how could you go
27:40and do just about
27:41the same thing
27:42that you did to her?
27:43I wasn't near
27:44the same thing I did.
27:45Kate, but then,
27:46it's still considered
27:46molestation.
27:48I'm sorry.
27:49Maybe someday
27:50I'll be able to forgive you
27:51for what you did to me,
27:51but I'll never be able
27:52to forgive you
27:53for what you did to her.
27:54I did have one instance
27:56of sexual abuse,
27:59and it was that same summer
28:01that my mom left.
28:03When my mom came back,
28:05the dynamic had shifted a lot.
28:07I don't know what happened
28:08to her while she was gone,
28:09but when she came back,
28:11she said,
28:11we're leaving.
28:13She decided to take us
28:15to Utah because she wanted
28:16to be around Mormons.
28:18Let's go where Mormons are
28:19and they'll help us.
28:21Even after years
28:22of being kind of dismissed
28:24and told to put up,
28:25shut up, and do better,
28:27she still went to the church
28:29for safety and support.
28:30Yeah.
28:31It's her first call.
28:32I understand that.
28:34I got pregnant with my son
28:37when I was 18,
28:38and I was out here in Utah
28:40trying to make it work
28:42with his dad.
28:43It was a turning point for me.
28:45I still had a communicative
28:47relationship with my dad.
28:49Like, we weren't friends.
28:51Like, I didn't, I,
28:53but I still talked to him.
28:54I still saw him as my dad.
28:57When I had my son
28:58and I felt so much joy
29:00and so much love,
29:02I felt what a parent
29:05is supposed to feel
29:06for their child.
29:07And in that moment,
29:10I knew I could never
29:11talk to him again.
29:12The only time I ever
29:14talked to him again after that
29:15was for my criminal case
29:16against him.
29:18So how do you go about
29:19reporting something like that?
29:21Well, I thought of all
29:23of the years of abuse,
29:25the place where it happened
29:27the most,
29:28because we lived there
29:29the longest,
29:30was California.
29:31Okay.
29:31And so I called
29:33the San Diego Police Department
29:35and I made a report
29:36with a detective.
29:39He asked me for, you know,
29:40some instances of abuse.
29:42I gave him maybe, you know,
29:43three or four memories.
29:45I've got hundreds.
29:47Yeah.
29:47You know, just the tone
29:48of horror and anger
29:50that this man
29:52who I'd never met before
29:55had for me
29:56and our family,
29:57it was,
29:58it was very validating
30:00and it was a shock.
30:04Like seeing through
30:05a clear lens
30:06for the first time.
30:06Yeah.
30:07All these other men knew
30:08these exact same things.
30:10How is this the first person
30:11who's showing any sense
30:13of this isn't right
30:14and something needs
30:15to be done?
30:19During the investigation,
30:20I had worked with
30:21the police department
30:22to call him
30:24and record it.
30:26I want to hear
30:27from your own mouth
30:28what you did to me
30:29and how sorry you are for it.
30:32Everything I ever did to you
30:34that was inappropriate or wrong.
30:36Me, inappropriate, Dad.
30:38Why would somebody rape
30:39an innocent person?
30:40Why would somebody stick things
30:41in an innocent baby
30:42like you did to me?
30:44Okay, I'm supposed to go to hell
30:45for what I did, okay?
30:46Yeah, you are.
30:47You should.
30:48You deserve to go there.
30:49I'm not going to.
30:57Do you remember
30:57when Mom called us?
30:59The first time?
31:00Sure.
31:02I said, Daddy,
31:03I don't want to do this.
31:05Do you know what you said?
31:07What?
31:09Well, I guess
31:10if you don't love me,
31:11you've never loved me
31:13the way a father
31:13should love a daughter.
31:15No, I haven't.
31:16I hear in your voice
31:17that things are better.
31:20Things are better
31:20because you're not
31:21raping me every night.
31:23Well, I'm sure
31:24that that is a big factor.
31:25Yeah, oh, yeah.
31:26It's a huge factor.
31:28It's an only factor,
31:29you idiot.
31:29And I pray for you
31:31every night.
31:34I basically got
31:35a recorded confession,
31:37and from there,
31:38it went pretty quickly.
31:40I made my report
31:41mid-August, probably,
31:44and by mid-December,
31:46he was arrested.
31:47Are you serious?
31:48And so...
31:49Can you just put it
31:50right up here?
31:52Oh, my gosh.
31:55It took me becoming
31:56an adult
31:56to advocate for myself
31:58and finally,
32:00you know,
32:02do what all
32:03of the priesthood leaders
32:04and my mom
32:05didn't do.
32:08For 21 years,
32:09people knew
32:10what this man was doing.
32:12Bishops,
32:13stake presidents,
32:14men that know better.
32:15He told one detective,
32:17and he was arrested
32:19within six months.
32:20Yeah.
32:21Yeah.
32:22What was his sentence,
32:23and is he still in jail?
32:2432 years.
32:25But he was released
32:27after about 15
32:28and a half years.
32:30He finished his parole
32:31in 2023,
32:31and he was rearrested
32:33for child sexual
32:35abuse materials.
32:36A lot of them.
32:38Shut up.
32:39Yeah.
32:39So he's back in prison.
32:43Mm-hmm.
32:44I hope he dies there,
32:45because if he dies there,
32:47that means that
32:48he won't be a danger
32:49to anyone else.
32:53Is that when he started
32:54to look at the church's
32:55role in protecting him?
32:58That wasn't for many years.
33:01The criminal charges
33:03were filed against my dad
33:04in 2004.
33:07I did not look into
33:09filing a civil lawsuit
33:11against the church
33:12for their role
33:14until 2020.
33:17I wouldn't even consider it
33:20for a very long time.
33:21Like, no,
33:22the church was just doing
33:23what they thought
33:24was right.
33:25The church professes
33:27to have a direct line
33:28to God
33:29and to know information
33:32and to have access
33:34to God
33:35that members don't have.
33:38What on earth
33:39could I possibly
33:39know more than these men?
33:42As soon as you start
33:43to feel like
33:43maybe the leaders
33:45of the church
33:46didn't do the right thing.
33:47Like critical.
33:49Yeah, a little bit critical.
33:50Exactly.
33:51Then that instantly
33:53comes in,
33:53well, I can't
33:54criticize the church leaders.
33:55Right, absolutely not.
33:56That's, that's
33:57because it's a covenant
33:58we make in order
33:59to attend the temple.
34:00Yeah.
34:00And it's not even
34:00a conscious thing.
34:02Yeah.
34:02It's instantly,
34:03you know,
34:04I would think
34:06should they have done more?
34:09And then I would be like
34:09I need to read
34:10my scriptures more
34:11because I must be
34:12missing something
34:12the way it is.
34:13It's run by Jesus Christ.
34:14So who wants to
34:15give notes to Jesus Christ?
34:17Exactly.
34:17If you're Jesus
34:18I'm not going to tell you
34:19you're wrong.
34:19Yeah.
34:20I'm not going to be like
34:21hey man,
34:21that was a bad decision.
34:23Like go back
34:23and rethink that.
34:24Are you sure?
34:25Are you sure?
34:26Yeah.
34:26No.
34:27Exactly.
34:28Okay.
34:28And then you align yourself
34:30to that decision
34:31no matter what it is.
34:32And lean not
34:32unto our own understanding
34:34but unto his
34:35and unto the Lord.
34:36And I believe
34:37that was my mom's outlook.
34:39Her outlook was
34:41they are direct conduits
34:44of God.
34:45So whatever decision
34:46they make
34:47that is the decision
34:48that God would make.
34:50Well that was
34:50your mom's conduit
34:52because that's
34:52what we're taught
34:53still today.
34:55Yeah.
34:55Yeah.
34:55Never mind
34:56that he's,
34:57you know,
34:57abusive
34:58and,
34:59you know,
34:59harming you
35:00and your children.
35:02There was a moment
35:15where I looked
35:17at myself
35:17as a child
35:18as a separate entity.
35:20I could recognize
35:21that what was done
35:23to her
35:24was not right.
35:26And so I thought,
35:27you know,
35:27I might not be able
35:28to do anything about it.
35:30I might not be able
35:31to make them
35:33take me seriously
35:33but I want to try.
35:37So that's when
35:37I contacted a lawyer.
35:40One of the things
35:41that I hoped
35:42to come out
35:43of the lawsuit
35:43with the church
35:44was some accountability.
35:48Even,
35:49even just
35:50an acknowledgement.
35:51You know,
35:52we did have
35:53a responsibility
35:54and we,
35:55you know,
35:56we didn't do
35:57the right thing.
35:58Let's make sure
35:59we do the right thing
36:00from here on out.
36:01That didn't happen
36:02but we went
36:03through mediation
36:04and came to a settlement.
36:05It definitely
36:07felt very
36:09dehumanizing
36:12and humiliating
36:14to hear,
36:15you know,
36:16my trauma
36:16being talked about
36:17in terms of money
36:19but then also
36:21being haggled
36:22over the attorney
36:23from Curtin-McConkie
36:24that did my deposition
36:26had the most smug face.
36:27Did they offer
36:28any explanation
36:29for things
36:30that the church...
36:32No,
36:32the church
36:33has no responsibility.
36:34And that was
36:34their official statement.
36:36The church
36:36has no responsibility.
36:37The mom
36:38should have done something.
36:39Why didn't she?
36:39They threw her
36:40under the bus.
36:41They really did.
36:42Big time.
36:42They really did.
36:43But I don't think
36:45the thought
36:46ever entered her mind
36:47that the church
36:50had done anything wrong.
36:52Yep.
36:53She still grapples with it.
36:55Yep.
36:55We're trained
36:56to think this way.
36:57This is what you're
36:58bred into.
36:58You know,
36:59it's conditioning.
37:00I still struggle
37:01to deconstruct it right now.
37:03Like,
37:03there has to be
37:04an explanation for this.
37:05You know,
37:05the people that
37:06I went to church with
37:07cared about children
37:08and would never
37:09turn a blind eye
37:11but the truth is
37:11as much as they may
37:12care about children,
37:14they care about
37:15the church more.
37:17Yes.
37:17And I think
37:17that's hard for people
37:18to understand.
37:19Like,
37:19our allegiance
37:20to the church,
37:21which we also say
37:22is our allegiance
37:23to God,
37:24is the strongest.
37:25So any other
37:27directive
37:27is less important.
37:28That's what it felt like
37:29and that's why
37:30I'm not going to
37:31shut up about it
37:32still.
37:33Like,
37:33okay,
37:34cool.
37:34You gave me
37:34a settlement.
37:35That means
37:36jack shit to me.
37:37Yeah.
37:38Like,
37:38my story,
37:39our story
37:40is important.
37:41Your role
37:42in our abuse
37:43is real
37:45and it needs
37:46to fucking change
37:47so that other
37:48children are not
37:49hurt the same way
37:50that we were.
37:51I have mixed
37:52feelings about
37:53the church today.
37:54There is a lot
37:55of good
37:56in the people
37:57of the church,
37:58but the corporation
38:00of the church
38:01of Jesus Christ
38:02of Latter-day Saints
38:03is harmful,
38:06deceitful,
38:06and I do
38:08see it as evil.
38:10I have removed
38:11the church's
38:11control and influence
38:12from my life
38:13and it's taken
38:14a lot to get here,
38:15but my life
38:16is actually beautiful.
38:17The church
38:18has this
38:19very planned out
38:20future for everyone
38:22and outside
38:22it's so much messier
38:24and I,
38:25I've preferred that,
38:27honestly.
38:28We have wanted
38:29to talk about this
38:31publicly for years
38:32and have not been
38:34able to find
38:35an avenue
38:35to do that.
38:37It feels like
38:37a constant reminder
38:38of no one listened
38:40and you're listening.
38:43I am,
38:43I'm listening.
38:44And that feels huge.
38:47You're both remarkable.
38:48I'm so glad
38:49you have each other.
38:50As a mom of daughters,
38:51your sister,
38:52LeBond,
38:52means a lot to me.
38:54I know your story
38:55is going to change lives
38:55and I'm really grateful
38:56to you guys
38:57for sharing it with me.
39:02I just,
39:09I feel really,
39:11like,
39:12heavy.
39:21Something shifted
39:22in my conversation
39:23with Lizzie and Jenny.
39:24I'm terrified
39:32of the word cult.
39:35If we could have
39:36a conversation
39:37around cult techniques
39:39and cult behavior
39:40and if it didn't
39:43eradicate
39:43the beautiful parts
39:45of my childhood
39:46and the wonderful things
39:48my parents did for me,
39:49I would just say it
39:51easily,
39:52you know.
39:52My parents were in a cult.
39:55They raised our entire family
39:57in this cult
39:57and it's really,
40:01really,
40:01really hard to get out of
40:02and it doesn't mean
40:04that my childhood
40:06was tainted
40:07or that my parents
40:08were bad people
40:09or that my family
40:11didn't have real love
40:13and real experiences
40:14but
40:15I was raised in a cult.
40:22Final thoughts,
40:24take one,
40:24A and B,
40:25marker.
40:25Oh, now I know
40:27what this scene is.
40:29Well, no fucking pressure.
40:32I'll tell you
40:33my final thoughts.
40:34They're not gonna be
40:35what you think
40:37my final thoughts are.
40:39Wow.
40:39Oh, my God.
40:42I just want to talk
40:43about what you're thinking.
40:45I've been really
40:47toying with this
40:47why me
40:48this whole time,
40:49you know,
40:49in every conversation
40:50I'm just thinking,
40:51you know,
40:52why me?
40:53The why me
40:54really made sense today
40:56and it kind of answered
40:57that question for me.
40:58You can shine your light
41:00on stories
41:01and create visibility
41:02for people
41:03and the effect
41:03of that change
41:04can be significant.
41:06Change could happen.
41:07I'm hearing these stories
41:11for the first time
41:12and they change
41:13the way that I view myself.
41:16And I'm sorry.
41:18You don't need
41:19to apologize.
41:21And definitely
41:22the church
41:23that I dedicated
41:23my life to.
41:26Giving victims
41:28a platform
41:29and an opportunity
41:29to tell their stories
41:31is, I think,
41:32the biggest act
41:33of resistance
41:34that you could do.
41:36These stories
41:36should be heard
41:37and the church
41:38is never going
41:39to hear them
41:39but the world can.
41:42Can you just
41:43put it right up here?
41:47And that's who
41:48they should put
41:48their faith in now.
41:50These victims
41:51put their faith
41:51into the church
41:52and those institutions
41:53for years and now
41:54I think they should
41:55put their faith
41:55into humanity
41:56and let their stories
41:57be heard
41:58and I hope
41:59the world responds
42:00with like kindness
42:02and support
42:03and love
42:03and outrage.
42:04For every story
42:07that's on Floodlit
42:08there are a thousand
42:09others that have
42:10just never come forward.
42:13This is the beginning
42:14of a reckoning.
42:15This is the beginning
42:16of a movement
42:17where people see
42:19that they can come forward
42:20and their abuse
42:22can be validated.
42:24I feel like I've seen
42:25and I trust myself
42:27enough to know
42:27that even if everyone
42:29around me is saying
42:30that the sky is black
42:31to me it's
42:33crystal blue
42:34and it's so clear
42:36what needs to be done.
42:46To all my bad Mormons.
42:52I'm starting to gather
42:55personal stories
42:56from people
42:56who would like
42:57to share them
42:58in some way.
42:59We will use this platform
43:00to shine a light
43:01on things that I
43:03as a lifelong member
43:04of the church
43:04never knew existed.
43:07My mission
43:07was one of the most
43:09damaging
43:10experiences of my life.
43:12There's so many
43:13effects from that
43:14that still
43:15I'm still trying
43:16to get over
43:17and work through.
43:18We started getting
43:20dozens of text calls
43:23we had a car
43:24follow us.
43:25My dad would tell me
43:26like you need
43:27to go get your mom
43:28and bring her home
43:29to us.
43:31Our eternal family
43:32depends on it.
43:32He took me
43:33to multiple
43:34polygamist settlements
43:36and one of them
43:36they wanted to give
43:37our son up for adoption
43:38to a really temple.
43:40It's crazy
43:42and it goes so high up
43:43it goes into
43:44I mean it's just
43:45a whole big thing.
43:46I don't know
43:47where I'm supposed to go
43:47or what I'm supposed
43:48to do.
43:51I haven't really had
43:53many people
43:54to talk to.
44:17I just got this text
44:23from somebody
44:25that wants to remain
44:26totally anonymous
44:27and sent a different
44:28name but that he's
44:30a sex worker
44:32for Mormon leadership.
44:35I'm a high-end
44:36gay escort.
44:37A lot of the Mormon
44:38leadership who run
44:39the organization
44:40are my clients.
44:41I'm not just talking
44:42about bishops
44:42or stake presidents
44:43temple presidents
44:44and yes
44:45even general
44:46authorities.
44:47I don't believe this.
44:50A general authority
44:52of the church
44:52using a high-end
44:54gay escort
44:55that's like
44:56an expose.
44:57That's National
44:58Enquirer shit.
44:59You know?
45:01They come to me
45:02because I create
45:03a safe space
45:03for the leaders
45:04to feel love
45:05and acceptance
45:05and then they go
45:06back to church
45:07and teach homophobia
45:08from the pulpit.
45:09They are causing
45:10great harm.
45:12For me
45:12it's an emergency.
45:16Hearing all
45:17of these stories
45:18from people
45:18all over the world
45:19if I get really
45:20angry about it
45:21the church is just
45:22not going to listen
45:22to me and label
45:23me a heretic
45:24apostate crazy person.
45:26So I have to
45:27follow their lead
45:29in terms of
45:30the level of action.
45:32I'm just going to say
45:33are you willing
45:33to meet with me?
45:36I never thought
45:37I'd be in this position
45:38ever.
45:40Ever.
45:42Ever.
45:43Ever.
45:44Ever.
45:45Ever.
45:46Ever.
45:46Ever.
45:47Ever.
45:48Ever.
45:48Ever.
45:48Ever.
45:49Ever.
45:49Ever.
45:50Ever.
45:50Ever.
45:51Ever.
45:51Ever.
45:52Ever.
45:52Ever.
45:53Ever.
45:54Ever.
45:54Ever.
45:55Ever.
45:56Ever.
45:57Ever.
45:58Ever.
45:59Ever.
46:00Ever.
46:01Ever.
46:02Ever.
46:03Ever.
46:04Ever.
46:05Ever.
46:06Ever.
46:07Ever.
46:08Ever.
46:09Ever.
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51:13
55:06
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