- 13 hours ago
A political firestorm erupts over the issue of illegal infiltration in Bihar's Seemanchal region, with the BJP's Syed Zafar Islam, Congress's Anshul Avijit, and JDU's Dr. Sanjay Kumar locking horns. The opposition charges the BJP with using the 'ghuspetia' (infiltrator) issue to polarize the electorate, with Anshul Avijit stating, 'this word "ghospatia" is a self-proclamation of their incompetence and ineptness, if nothing else.' The debate scrutinizes the role of the NDA's 'double-engine' government in tackling this long-standing problem, the effectiveness and transparency of the Election Commission's Special Summary Revision (SSR) of voter lists, and the opposition's claim that it's a diversion from real issues like unemployment. With Prime Minister Narendra Modi raising the issue and announcing a 'National Demographic Mission,' the controversy has become a central theme in Bihar's political battlefield.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Let's open this up for the big infiltration debate.
00:03Joining us this evening on India First is Dr. Syed Zafar Islam,
00:07National Spokesperson of the BJP.
00:09We have Anshul Avijit, National Spokesperson of the Congress.
00:12Dr. Sanjay Kumar, Spokesperson of the JDU.
00:14And Mohamed Amin, former Joint Director of the Election Commission.
00:19Good evening, gentlemen. Thank you very much for your time.
00:22Mr. Zafar Islam, I'd like to begin with you.
00:24Taking off from one of the points that one of those youngsters made
00:26with Gaurav in his ground report,
00:28where they say that if the BJP is in power in the centre,
00:32if they are in power in the state,
00:34and you have the Prime Minister, the Home Minister speaking of infiltration,
00:38why didn't the government, the double-engine government of Bihar and centre,
00:41do something about it and stop it?
00:45See, that's what we are doing.
00:48From day one, we are trying to ensure that
00:50the people who have come from outside illegally,
00:55they are not citizens of the country,
00:56should be living this country,
01:00and they should be deported as soon as possible.
01:04This is something which we are very vocal about it.
01:07We have spoken about it.
01:08And we are very clear that
01:10no illegal immigrant should be there in our country.
01:15There are people who are living for ages.
01:17They are not our nationals.
01:18They are illegally staying here.
01:20But that is something which other government has not done,
01:23but we have made a promise.
01:25We are working towards that.
01:26And we did bring a lot of legislation
01:29and also initiatives we have undertaken
01:31to ensure that those illegal immigrants
01:34should not be part of our nation
01:37and should not be our citizen.
01:38Illegally, they have become.
01:40That is why when SIR exercise had started,
01:42many people who were not a citizen,
01:49they didn't come to show their report,
01:50their card, their documents,
01:54because they knew that
01:54they cannot prove that they are citizens.
01:56That's why they may have gone to some other states
01:59like West Bengal.
02:00So SIR exercise across the country,
02:02once it will happen,
02:04you will see that there are many immigrants
02:07who illegally have come.
02:09They are Ghospatiyas.
02:11And that is why they will be identified.
02:13So Dr. Zafir Islam,
02:14you know, the SIR process of course has kicked off
02:16in states like West Bengal
02:18that you're referring to.
02:19You're referring to the SIR process,
02:21but as far as the government goes,
02:23are you then conceding
02:24that the government in Bihar
02:26has failed to crack down on infiltrators?
02:29See, you cannot make this kind of statement
02:33that who has failed, who has not failed.
02:36This process was there for ages.
02:39And that is Congress was always supporting that.
02:41RJD was supporting.
02:43But now there has to be some method of madness
02:45to show that that practice should stop.
02:48And that is why this SIR exercise,
02:51that various other legislation
02:52which has been put in place,
02:53will ensure like for instance,
02:55SIR, there are people who have identified
02:57they're illegal citizens.
02:59They are staying illegally in the country.
03:02They have identified.
03:03I'm telling you again, repeating.
03:05They have been identified.
03:06It has nothing to do with religion.
03:08It has nothing to do with any other concentration
03:11except they are illegal immigrants.
03:13But we don't have that number.
03:16And as I said,
03:17they have been identified.
03:19They will be deported.
03:21First objective was to identify
03:24and you will soon see that they will be deported soon.
03:28So, it is an exercise which is to ensure
03:31that the youth of this country should not suffer.
03:34The citizen of this country should not suffer.
03:37The resources of this country
03:38is meant for the citizen of this country,
03:40not for illegal immigrants.
03:41We have nothing against anyone
03:43except those who are staying here illegally
03:46and they should be deported.
03:47Instead, anybody,
03:49if you have any problem,
03:51they must speak about it.
03:51Let me bring in Anshul Avajit,
03:53National Spokesperson of the Congress.
03:55Anshul, the BJP,
03:56and you've heard Prime Minister Modi,
03:58Home Minister Amit Shah repeatedly say this,
04:00that the RGD and Congress
04:01are protecting infiltrators.
04:05No, you know, Akshita,
04:07Akshita, there is absolutely no doubt
04:09in my mind
04:10what the singular reason
04:12for forcing this word
04:13in the electoral lexicon of Bihar is.
04:17There's just one reason.
04:18I mean, this red herring was tried
04:20in Jharkhand as well.
04:21I was there throughout the election.
04:22They repeatedly said it.
04:24They got egg on their face.
04:25They faced a massive defeat.
04:27This is the same reason
04:28why the word Pakistan
04:29has also been brought in
04:30by a very senior minister
04:32who is a serial offender in this case.
04:34It is to divide
04:36the people of Bihar
04:38on communal grounds.
04:40Now, you're absolutely right.
04:41Gaurav asked the right question
04:42and so did you.
04:44I mean, if the BJP,
04:45leave aside my argument,
04:47if the BJP had the noblest of intentions
04:50and the purity of mind,
04:52of feeling,
04:53in trying to tackle the problem
04:56of illegal infiltrators,
04:58then what were they doing
04:59for the last 11 years?
05:01I mean, they had a government in Bihar,
05:04a joint government in Bihar,
05:06a coalition for the better past
05:07of 20 years.
05:08They had enough time
05:09to get rid of this issue,
05:12as they call it.
05:13They've been completely inept
05:15in doing that.
05:15In fact, this word,
05:17guspatia,
05:18is a self-proclamation
05:19of their incompetence
05:21and ineptness,
05:22if nothing else.
05:23Right?
05:24Now, the SIR report,
05:25Akshita,
05:26to bring home that point,
05:28makes no mention of guspatia.
05:30I mean, there have been
05:3047 lakh deletions,
05:32I believe.
05:33In fact, it's very opaque.
05:34It does not mention
05:36what is the nature
05:36of the deletions,
05:37how many people
05:38were removed
05:39from the SIR deletion list
05:42because of lack
05:42of documentary evidence,
05:44that they couldn't supply
05:45that evidence.
05:46Maybe they were guspatias,
05:47maybe not.
05:48When is that list
05:49going to come out?
05:50When has the Home Ministry
05:51released a list
05:52of how many people
05:53have been deported?
05:54I don't have that list.
05:56I don't know.
05:56Is there a white paper on it?
05:58We took action against,
06:00in fact,
06:00this kind of illegal
06:02infiltration
06:03when the UPA
06:03is in power.
06:04We have a proper list
06:05of doing that.
06:05So let's set the record
06:06straight on that,
06:07considering this is
06:08constantly the allegation
06:09that's hurled
06:09at the Congress
06:10and the RGD.
06:11Anshul Abhijit,
06:12is the RGD
06:13and Congress
06:14protecting infiltrators?
06:16Can that be possible?
06:18It is the job
06:19of the Home Ministry
06:20to find out
06:21who the infiltrators are.
06:22I mean,
06:22they cannot abdicate
06:24from their responsibility
06:25like the Election Commission
06:26is doing it.
06:27Election Commission
06:28is making the whole process
06:29so exclusionary
06:30and completely abdicating
06:32putting the owners
06:32of...
06:33Okay, okay.
06:34I'm going to come back
06:35to Anshul.
06:35We're having a bit of a problem
06:36with your audio.
06:37I'll bring in Dr. Sanjay Kumar
06:38also on this of the JDU.
06:40Dr. Sanjay Kumar,
06:41the constant question
06:42that will come up
06:43from the RGD
06:43and Congress
06:44is that if infiltration
06:45is such a big issue
06:46in Simanchal,
06:47why was nothing done about it?
06:51Thank you, Akshita.
06:52I think, you know,
06:53I am joining from Katiar,
06:55one of the Simanchal districts
06:56and since my childhood,
06:58what I have seen
07:00around Katihar
07:01and in the entire Simanchal
07:03is that Congress
07:05always encouraged people
07:07to come in
07:07and settle down
07:08in this area.
07:09So the demographic
07:10change,
07:11shift happened
07:12in this area
07:13dramatically
07:14in the last 25,
07:1530 years
07:16and, you know,
07:18it happens
07:19in a very subtle manner,
07:21you know,
07:21that, you know,
07:24it is not so obvious
07:25but, you know,
07:27within, you know,
07:27last 25, 30 years
07:30I have seen
07:30so many changes
07:31and today also
07:32I was asking
07:33one of the drivers
07:34that, you know,
07:35from where did you come?
07:37When did you come?
07:38So he said
07:39that my grandfather
07:40came here
07:40and they came
07:42from Murshidabad.
07:43So a lot of people
07:44came from Murshidabad side
07:45and they are called
07:46Sirsavadi here
07:48and, you know,
07:49Murshidabad is
07:50the border district
07:51in West Bengal,
07:53you know,
07:54very close to Bangladesh
07:55and if you go to
07:57Murshidabad,
07:58if you go to West Bengal,
08:00a lot of things,
08:01a lot of people
08:01move morning to evening,
08:04you know,
08:04they come this side
08:05during the daytime,
08:07they work here
08:08and then they go back
08:08and a lot of people
08:09also stay back.
08:11So, you know,
08:11this has been happening.
08:12But it's unchecked then.
08:14What you're telling me,
08:14Dr. Sanjay Kumar,
08:15is extremely concerning
08:16and worrying.
08:17It's unchecked that means.
08:18Yeah, yeah.
08:18So I think now
08:20the setting up
08:23of national demographic mission
08:25I think, you know,
08:27government was probably
08:28looking for the apt,
08:30you know,
08:31vehicle or the platform
08:33to address this issue.
08:36It's a larger issue.
08:37It's not a very small issue.
08:38It's not only in Simulshan region.
08:39Now, you know,
08:40people may be
08:41in other parts of the country.
08:43You know,
08:43we don't know yet.
08:44So I think
08:45this is a task
08:46of national demographic mission
08:47which has been set up
08:48by the prime minister
08:49and I think
08:50we are going to address
08:51this issue, you know,
08:52and this is a serious issue
08:54in this part of
08:55the region
08:55and other parts
08:56of the country.
08:58Okay.
08:58I want to bring in
08:59Mohamed Ameen
09:00who is a former
09:01joint director
09:02of the election commission.
09:03Mr. Ameen,
09:04a question that constantly
09:05also comes up here
09:06in the course
09:07of what's happened
09:07is a lot of focus
09:09on the SIR exercise.
09:11But why we don't have
09:12that specific data
09:13of how many
09:14of these foreigners
09:15were really identified
09:16or weeded out?
09:17the responsibility
09:20of the election commission
09:23to register
09:24the national voters
09:25and so many times
09:27the opposition
09:28and other parties
09:29have raised the question
09:30against the election commission
09:31that we have
09:33given the edge
09:35to the ruling party
09:36and so many voters
09:37have deleted
09:38from the opposition parties
09:40and we supported
09:42to BJP party.
09:44But it's not fair.
09:45Actually,
09:45election commission
09:46is a constitutional body.
09:48We never take
09:49any favor
09:50or do any favor
09:51to any stakeholders.
09:53All are the equal
09:54stakeholders
09:55in the country
09:57for the election commission
09:58doing this process
09:59for the election.
10:00So that's why
10:01the election commission
10:02has decided
10:02so this long time period
10:04after we have decided
10:06election commission
10:06that we can start
10:08the SIR process.
10:09So SIR process
10:11means purify
10:12the electoral role.
10:14Electoral role
10:14so we have to delete
10:15the dead voters,
10:17foreign voters
10:17if they are registered
10:19in that last vote.
10:21But can we ever,
10:22Mr. Ameen,
10:22can we ever expect
10:23a breakdown
10:23of what you're referring to?
10:25Pardon?
10:26Can we ever expect
10:27a breakdown
10:27of what you're referring to?
10:29Of what the SIR exercise
10:30has succeeded in doing?
10:31How many of these foreigners
10:32have actually been
10:33identified and removed?
10:35Yeah, yeah.
10:35This is the confidential matter,
10:37madam.
10:38And this is done
10:39by our BLOs,
10:41AEROs
10:41and district election officers.
10:43If they have got it
10:45this fake voters
10:46or any foreigner voters
10:48registered in this country,
10:49they are identified
10:51and confidentially
10:52they have given report
10:53to the Ministry of Health.
10:55Home Affairs.
10:56This is the matter
10:56of the Ministry of Home Affairs
10:58to decide
10:58so they can live here in India
11:00or they can
11:01illegal immigrant,
11:04they can deport
11:05from country.
11:06And this is the matter
11:07of the Foreign Ministry
11:08and the Home Ministry.
11:09So this is not a matter
11:10of the Election Commission
11:11of India.
11:12So the Election Commission
11:13of India
11:13having their SIR process
11:15regularly,
11:17not from today,
11:182002, 2003, 2004.
11:21So every 10 years minimum,
11:24we can have the SIR process.
11:26So if any illegal immigrant
11:28from Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh
11:30and Myanmar,
11:32these are the surrounding borders
11:33of the Bihar
11:34and Bangladesh,
11:35West Bengal.
11:37So we have to identify
11:39and confidentially
11:40we can submit
11:41to the report
11:41to the Ministry of Home Affairs.
11:44Is it a matter
11:44of the Home Minister?
11:45They have to decide it.
11:46So then, Dr. Zafar Islam,
11:48you know,
11:49in the face of
11:50this entire infiltration debate
11:51and looking at
11:52what's happening
11:53in Simanchal region,
11:54there will be questions
11:56about why there's been
11:56this lack of transparency
11:58on the takeaways
11:59from the SIR exercise,
12:01which the BJP fully backed.
12:03You said it was
12:03the need of the hour,
12:04particularly in these kind
12:06of border districts
12:07of Bihar.
12:08Why is it then
12:09that we don't have
12:10those details yet,
12:11full transparency
12:12of what emerged?
12:14First of all,
12:15why we have supported
12:16the initiative,
12:17which is undertaken
12:18by the Selection Commission,
12:21because everyone,
12:23everyone,
12:23including the opposition parties
12:26and their members,
12:28should say
12:28that they don't want
12:29a clean
12:30and this electoral list,
12:34free from all the speculation
12:35whether there are
12:36illegals or immigrants or not.
12:39So the accuracy
12:40of those voters
12:41and the electoral rules
12:43should be...
12:43No, I agree with you,
12:44Dr. Zafar Islam.
12:45I agree with you
12:45that, you know,
12:46this kind of revision
12:47is needed,
12:47but the manner in which
12:49did lead to controversy
12:50and so now...
12:51There's no controversy.
12:53So now,
12:53now that it's done,
12:55now that it's done,
12:55why is it that
12:56those details
12:57aren't being put out?
12:58Full transparency
12:59will back the BJP's
13:01claim here.
13:02Allow me to complete.
13:03See, first of all,
13:04have you heard anybody
13:05coming on the street
13:07or complaining about it
13:08that their name
13:08has been deleted?
13:10Have you seen
13:11in Bihar?
13:12No.
13:12Their BLAs
13:13have not complained.
13:14The complaints
13:15have been received
13:16by BLOs.
13:17Nobody is on...
13:18If 46 lakh votes
13:20or 65 lakh votes
13:21will be deleted,
13:23then voters
13:25will be on the street.
13:27But did you see
13:27anything of such...
13:28any such thing
13:29on the street
13:30of Bihar?
13:30No.
13:31Because
13:31their illegal voters,
13:33if their names
13:34have been deleted,
13:35they will not come
13:36on the street.
13:37Secondly,
13:3865 lakh doesn't
13:40include only
13:40their legal voters.
13:42There could be
13:42legal voters,
13:43there could be
13:43people who have
13:44died,
13:45their name
13:46must have been
13:46deleted.
13:47People have
13:47migrated because...
13:48But Dr. Islam,
13:49even your saying
13:50could have.
13:52No, I'm saying
13:52that, see,
13:53as Mr. Ameen
13:54has said
13:54very, very clearly
13:56because he knows
13:57exactly what the
13:58process is,
13:59he said that
13:59election commission
14:00has jurisdiction
14:04only to identify
14:05what the data
14:06they get
14:07and that is
14:08the responsibility
14:08of the Home
14:09Ministry to decide.
14:10So they will
14:10only submit
14:11those reports
14:12to the Home
14:13Ministry and
14:13it is the
14:14competent authority
14:15or the Ministry
14:16is the Home
14:16Ministry which
14:17will decide
14:17what exactly
14:18needs to be done
14:19and they will
14:19do that.
14:20As I said,
14:21the identification
14:22is done,
14:23deportation will
14:23happen.
14:24Okay.
14:25Anshul Avijit,
14:25I'll bring you
14:26back in on this.
14:27I'm not sure
14:27if you heard
14:28what Dr. Sanjay
14:28Kumar said.
14:29You know,
14:29he was highlighting
14:30how infiltration
14:31is such a big
14:32crisis, a big
14:33issue in Simanchal.
14:35So when you
14:35say that this
14:36is a term
14:37that's just
14:37come up now,
14:38are you suggesting
14:39that infiltration
14:40is not a serious
14:41concern that
14:41must be addressed?
14:43No, I mean,
14:44I heard a bit
14:45of what Mr. Sanjay
14:46Kumar said.
14:46He said in
14:47the last 20,
14:4725 years,
14:48well, actually
14:49their government
14:49was in power.
14:50This has become
14:51an issue.
14:51So they must
14:52address it.
14:53And if their
14:54government,
14:54well, a part
14:55of their government
14:55which is the
14:56BJP is in power
14:57in the center,
14:58well, it certainly
14:58must be addressed.
15:00We don't want
15:00illegal...
15:01That's what we
15:01are trying to do.
15:03Hang on a minute.
15:03You don't want
15:04illegal immigrants
15:05voting in the
15:06election.
15:07And by the way,
15:07Mr. Zafar Islam
15:08is actually in his
15:10statements as an
15:11indictment of the
15:11Home Ministry.
15:12And if he's
15:13defending the
15:14Election Commission,
15:15which shows that
15:16he's in collusion
15:16with them,
15:17then it's an
15:18indictment of the
15:19Election Commission
15:19as well.
15:20So both the Home
15:21Ministry and the
15:22Election Commission
15:23is being damned
15:24by no less than
15:25Mr. Zafar Islam
15:26himself.
15:27Look, absolutely
15:28clear here, there's
15:30a lack of
15:30transparency in the
15:31way the SIR was
15:32conducted, a hastily
15:35done exercise in a
15:36matter of month with
15:37a huge documentary
15:38burden to prove your
15:39citizenship.
15:40Now, the one
15:41question that keeps
15:42up coming up,
15:43Akshita, is that
15:44why weren't there
15:45any protests on the
15:47street?
15:47There is no
15:48linear relationship
15:49between lack of
15:51protest and the
15:51nature of deletions.
15:53I mean, I don't
15:53know where people
15:54have drawn this
15:55conclusion, but
15:56because there are
15:57no protests, that
15:58means all kinds of
15:59deletions have not
16:00occurred.
16:00I let Dr. Zafar Islam
16:02just answer to that
16:03particular question you
16:04have raised and then
16:04I'll bring it back to
16:05you.
16:05I'm really surprised.
16:07If you are a
16:08citizen of this
16:09country, Anshul, just
16:10a second.
16:11If you are a
16:12citizen of this
16:13country, if you are
16:14a resident of Bihar
16:15and your name is
16:16deleted, and
16:17you know that
16:17final list is
16:18there for you to
16:19see whether your
16:19name is there or
16:20not.
16:20Where were the
16:20orders passed,
16:21Mr. Zafar Iflam,
16:22to say that your
16:23name has been
16:24depleted?
16:25No, no, hang
16:25on a minute.
16:26Final list is
16:28there.
16:29One at a time,
16:29please, one at a
16:30time.
16:31Where were the
16:32orders passed
16:33after deletions,
16:34to whom were
16:34they passed?
16:35No, no, no.
16:35I think the
16:36final list is
16:36there if you
16:37interpret it.
16:37Okay, okay.
16:38Answer that.
16:39Answer that.
16:39Dr. Zafar Islam,
16:40answer that.
16:41I'm answering your
16:42question.
16:42You want a
16:43mass protest.
16:45Okay, I'm
16:45asking your question.
16:47Let Dr. Zafar Islam
16:48answer.
16:49Yeah.
16:50See, by
16:51jumping like this,
16:52they are only
16:53exposing themselves
16:54that they are the
16:55one responsible for
16:56all these
16:57infiltrators.
16:59Because they have
16:59never done it,
17:00and if the parties,
17:01if our government
17:02is doing it,
17:03they will definitely
17:04have issues because
17:05they are their
17:05voters.
17:06Clearly, we do
17:07not want to comment
17:08whether who's voters
17:09or not voters.
17:09my only objective
17:11and submission is
17:11that we want
17:13illegal voters
17:15should not be
17:15there.
17:16Voter list should
17:17be free from
17:18any speculation.
17:19And that is why
17:20SIR exercise
17:21had to be done,
17:22which has been
17:22done.
17:22Now, West
17:23Bengal, there's
17:23a lot of time
17:24left.
17:25You are
17:25hastily done in
17:26Bihar, you are
17:26saying, West
17:27Bengal, a lot of
17:28time is there
17:29for West
17:29Bengal and
17:30Tamil Nadu.
17:30See the
17:31statement which is
17:32coming from
17:33their government.
17:34Why those
17:34statements are
17:35coming?
17:35because they
17:36genuinely want
17:38to protect
17:38those illegal
17:40immigrants who
17:41are their
17:41voters and
17:42they feel that
17:42their voters
17:43will go
17:44against the
17:45election.
17:45I'll give
17:46Anshul Abhijit
17:47a chance now.
17:48He's been
17:48waiting.
17:48Go ahead.
17:49No, no, I
17:50just want to ask
17:50him then bring
17:51out a white
17:51paper on how
17:52many illegal
17:53immigrants you
17:54have ousted
17:55from this
17:55country in
17:56the last 11
17:57years.
17:57Give us the
17:58data.
17:59I'm not saying
17:59anything.
18:00Anshul, you'll
18:00be surprised.
18:02You'll be
18:02surprised.
18:02Let me answer
18:03the question.
18:04You've got a
18:05question.
18:05Hold on, Dr.
18:06Zafir Islam.
18:07Let Anshul finish
18:07please.
18:08No, no, no.
18:09What I'm trying
18:10to say is that
18:11we agree that
18:12actually there
18:13should be no
18:14illegal immigrants
18:15who are not
18:15citizens who
18:16should be voting
18:17in this.
18:18I'm glad we're
18:18all on the
18:19same page on
18:19that.
18:19Where is the
18:20dispute in
18:20that?
18:21I'm just asking
18:22you to say
18:23what have you
18:23done about it
18:24in the last
18:2511 years to
18:26bring it up to
18:27communalize Bihar
18:28elections is an
18:29old trick, an
18:30old playbook that
18:31you've constantly
18:32used.
18:32You used it in
18:33Jarkand,
18:33you're using it
18:35again.
18:36Look, Gaurab did
18:37a very interesting
18:38interview.
18:39In all the
18:39people he asked,
18:40they asked the
18:41same thing.
18:42What were you
18:43doing for the
18:43last 11 years?
18:45And only one
18:46person said that
18:46this is a
18:47mudda.
18:47Some couple of
18:48stray people
18:48coming up,
18:49Bihar, and
18:50saying this is a
18:51mudda doesn't
18:51make it so.
18:52Akshita, the
18:53real concern about
18:54Bihar is its
18:55economic devastation,
18:57the lack of
18:58jobs, the lack
18:58of opportunities,
18:59the per capita.
19:00But that will
19:01automatically,
19:02Anshul, you
19:02talk about
19:03jobs, you
19:03talk about
19:04opportunity.
19:05I will refer
19:05to Gaurav's
19:06very ground
19:06report where
19:07some people
19:07did say that
19:08jobs are being
19:09taken away from
19:09us, so that's
19:10a concern.
19:11Dr. Zafir
19:11Islam, go
19:12ahead.
19:12Why not give
19:13full details of
19:14what the BJP
19:14government has
19:15done to crack
19:15down on
19:16infiltration?
19:17If it's such
19:17a big issue,
19:18what really has
19:19the double
19:20engine Sarkar
19:20done?
19:23I think they
19:25need to
19:25understand that
19:27election commission
19:28was doing their
19:29job, they have
19:30done their
19:30job.
19:31What the
19:31home ministry
19:32has to do,
19:33they will
19:33discharge their
19:36responsibility and
19:37you will see
19:38that people who
19:40have been
19:41identified as
19:42illegally, those
19:45people who are
19:45staying in the
19:45country, and
19:46they are not
19:47citizens, they
19:48have been
19:48identified, the
19:49process of
19:50deportation will
19:50start soon.
19:51But let me
19:52tell you a very
19:52important thing,
19:53that the
19:54Congress party
19:55has done
19:56nothing, nothing
19:57to stop
19:58infiltration,
20:00nothing to
20:00stop illegal
20:03immigrants becoming
20:04citizens of
20:05this country, and
20:06they have to
20:08understand that
20:08for some
20:09district in
20:10Simachal, they
20:11have more
20:12number of
20:12Aadhaar
20:14card than
20:14the population
20:15of that
20:15particular
20:16district.
20:16That only
20:17suggests that
20:17illegally there
20:18many people
20:19have come.
20:19You must
20:20support it.
20:21I am not
20:21saying that
20:22who is the
20:22voter.
20:23Voter could
20:23be anybody.
20:24I mean, there
20:25is nothing to
20:25do, it is
20:26agnostic to
20:27religion, not
20:29is to
20:29language, it
20:31is only
20:31illegal immigrants
20:34which has
20:35come illegally
20:36to our
20:36country, they
20:37are the
20:37ones who
20:38need to be
20:38identified and
20:39you should
20:39support it.
20:40This is a
20:40bit, this is
20:41Dr. Sanjay
20:42Kumar, I'd
20:42like to bring
20:43you in on
20:43this as well.
20:44Anshul, give
20:44me a moment, I'll
20:45come back to
20:46you.
20:46Dr. Sanjay
20:46Kumar, is
20:48the NDA in
20:49a bit of a
20:49catch-22
20:50situation on
20:51this?
20:51On one hand,
20:52you raise the
20:52issue of
20:53infiltration, talk
20:54about how
20:54concerning it
20:55is, you're
20:55questioning the
20:55opposition on
20:56their stand
20:56on this
20:57issue, on
20:58the other, the
20:58people you
20:59speak to will
20:59inevitably question
21:00why wasn't this
21:01addressed, why
21:02wasn't something
21:02done about this,
21:03which is what
21:04you heard in
21:05that ground
21:05report also.
21:06Yeah, but as I
21:09said, Achita, I
21:09think announcement
21:11of national
21:11demographic mission
21:12is a big
21:13step and the
21:15mandate of this
21:16mission is to
21:17draw out a
21:19plan and
21:20understand and
21:22act upon it.
21:23I think that is
21:24a big action.
21:24No, but Dr.
21:24Sanjay Kumar, you
21:25know, even in
21:25Simanchal, there's
21:26all of this talk
21:27of illegal
21:28aadhaars on
21:29which nothing's
21:29been done.
21:31Yeah, so illegal
21:32aadhaar is, you
21:33know, it's an
21:34issue and, you
21:36know, that wasn't
21:36manufactured by the
21:37RGD in Congress.
21:38They've not been
21:39in power for 20
21:39years.
21:40In all the
21:40districts, it's a
21:41big issue and,
21:42you know, under
21:43aadhaar, there is
21:44a provision that
21:46if you have stayed
21:47in the country for
21:48so many days, you
21:49can make your
21:49aadhaar.
21:50So aadhaar is a
21:51very, very, you
21:52know, it's an
21:53identity document
21:53and that was the
21:56reason why
21:57election commission
21:58initially did not
22:00want to include
22:01aadhaar as one
22:02of the documents
22:03of identification
22:04you know, but
22:05on the basis of
22:07order of Supreme
22:08Court, the
22:09election commission
22:09had to abide by
22:10it.
22:11But aadhaar card
22:12can be made by
22:14staying for certain
22:15days or, you
22:16know, it can be
22:17made prudently
22:18also.
22:18It's very
22:19unfortunate.
22:20So I think
22:21we are hoping
22:23that some
22:25action will be
22:27now taken
22:27because we
22:28have started to
22:29identify through
22:30the SIR and
22:31there is now
22:32demographic mission
22:34action and
22:34action will be
22:36taken.
22:36Certainly, I'm
22:37sure that it will
22:38happen soon.
22:39Okay, in the
22:39face of, Anshal
22:40Avijit, the fact
22:41that you're seeing
22:42the BJP going
22:43hammer and
22:44tongs on the
22:44issue of
22:45infiltration,
22:46people on the
22:46ground are
22:47speaking of
22:47jobs,
22:47opportunities,
22:48losing out on
22:49some of those.
22:50In the face of
22:51that and the
22:51opposition constantly
22:52facing this
22:53charge of, you
22:53know, vote bank
22:54politics, protecting
22:55infiltrators, how
22:57does the
22:57Congress, the
22:58RGD combined
22:58actually plan to
22:59combat that in a
23:00region like
23:00SEMANCHAL, which
23:01goes to polls in
23:01a few days?
23:03Akshita, there
23:04are no jobs in
23:05Bihar, forget
23:05about competing
23:06for them.
23:07People in that
23:08report, in
23:09Preeti's report, I
23:10also saw she was
23:11doing it from a
23:11railway station where
23:13there was an
23:13exodus of people
23:14going out.
23:15Migrants, yeah.
23:16Because they were
23:17going out to
23:18Gujarat and other
23:18places because there
23:19are simply no jobs
23:20available.
23:21Forget about
23:21competing, healthy
23:22competition for jobs,
23:23I can understand.
23:24There is nothing
23:25there.
23:26That is the level of
23:26despair and
23:27suffering because
23:28of this government.
23:29Look, there is no
23:31getting away from
23:31this fact that the
23:33central government
23:33has been in power
23:34for 11 and a half
23:35years and this
23:36government, in
23:37coalition with the
23:38BJP, has been in
23:39power for the
23:40better part of 20
23:41years.
23:42Right?
23:42There's nothing, I
23:43want to repeatedly
23:44ask this question on
23:45the question of
23:46infiltration as well.
23:47If you think it's a
23:48legitimate question,
23:49then why have you
23:50not done anything
23:51about it?
23:52Bring us a white
23:52paper, at least tell
23:53us how many people
23:54you've deported.
23:55They have no answer.
23:56Which means that
23:58there is only one
23:58reason why this
23:59bogey of infiltration
24:01indeed, because it
24:02is one, and Gaurav
24:03also, interview also
24:05suggested, that was
24:08another person who
24:09said it, by the way.
24:10Taking something from
24:11what your own
24:12reporter and Gaurav
24:14said, I want to ask
24:17you that this is only
24:18a red herring to
24:19divert attention from
24:20the real issues.
24:21We've been trying
24:22and saying it's an
24:22old playbook of the
24:23BJP.
24:24How do you
24:24communalize?
24:25Because they suspect
24:27that they belong to
24:27one community, they
24:28can target that
24:29community and
24:29polarize the election.
24:31This is transparent.
24:33If it was not so
24:34obvious, and people
24:34in Bihar, Akshita, who
24:36are a highly politicized
24:37group and understand
24:38everything, if you go
24:39to a wider survey, ask
24:41the attackers to do
24:42it, you will find out
24:43that this is not the
24:44real issue.
24:45This is not an issue
24:46at all.
24:46It will come down, if
24:48it appears at all, right
24:49at the bottom of the
24:50people in power.
24:51Anshul, final question,
24:51which is that, you
24:52know, infiltration, you
24:53are not going to say
24:53it's not an issue that
24:54we should be talking
24:55about.
24:56It is a very, very
24:56serious issue.
24:58Well, ask the
24:59questions, ask the
25:00questions to the
25:01people in power.
25:02What have they done
25:02about it?
25:03That is the legitimate.
25:04We have not been in
25:05power in Bihar.
25:06We were there for
25:0717 months.
25:08We have not been in
25:09power in the past
25:1011 and a half years.
25:11Fair enough.
25:11Dr. Sanjay Kumar,
25:12quickly, I see your
25:12hand up.
25:13Quickly, sir.
25:14No, so I just
25:15wanted to add, Anshul has
25:16been talking about the
25:17development in Bihar,
25:18and especially in
25:19Simanchal region.
25:20Akchita, if you come
25:21this side, Simanchal has
25:22grown so much in terms
25:24of, you know, like
25:25roads, electricity,
25:26everything, medical
25:27colleges, engineering
25:28colleges in every
25:29district.
25:30There are so many
25:31opportunities opened up
25:32in the border districts
25:33in the Simanchal region.
25:35So I think it's a
25:36false narrative that
25:37Anshul is bringing up.
25:39There is the first
25:40time, you know, in
25:41many years, there is
25:42pro-incumbency for
25:43this government, you
25:44know, just because of
25:45the development.
25:46Whether that's the
25:47case or not, whether
25:48that's the case or
25:49not, we'll know in a
25:50week from now, on
25:51November 14th.
25:53I've run out of time.
25:53Thank you very much,
25:54gentlemen, for joining
25:55me on this broadcast.
25:56Simanchal, with 24
25:57seats up for grabs,
25:58has been an area
26:00that's largely been
26:01dominated by the
26:01RGD and the
26:02Congress.
26:02Now you've got the
26:03NDA in full campaign
26:05swing, talking about
26:06the issue of
26:06infiltration.
26:08Away from the
26:08communal politics of
26:09it, infiltration also
26:10has a lot to do with
26:12national security.
26:13Also, opportunities
26:14being taken away
26:15from youngsters.
26:16Will that actually
26:18be a poll issue in
26:19Bihar in phase two?
26:21We will track the
26:22latest on that and
26:23get you those very,
26:24very telling ground
26:25reports.
26:25That's right.
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