00:00Zafar Islam, I'd like to begin with you, taking off from one of the points that one of those
00:03youngsters made with Gaurav in his ground report, where they say that if the BJP is
00:09in power in the centre, if they are in power in the state, and you have the Prime Minister,
00:13the Home Minister speaking of infiltration, why didn't the government, the double-engine
00:17government of Bihar and centre, do something about it and stop it?
00:23See, that's what we are doing.
00:24From day one, we are trying to ensure that the people who have come from outside illegally,
00:32they are not citizens of the country, should be leaving this country and they should be
00:39deported as soon as possible.
00:42This is something which we are very vocal about, we have spoken about it, and we are very clear
00:47that no illegal immigrant should be there in our country.
00:52There are people who are leaving for ages, they are not our nation, they are illegally
00:57staying here.
00:58But that is something which other government has not done, but we have made a promise,
01:03we are working towards that, and we have, we did bring a lot of legislation and also initiative
01:08we have undertaken to ensure that those illegal immigrants should not be part of our nation
01:14and should not be our citizen, illegally they have become.
01:17That is why when SIR exercise had started, many people who were not a citizen, they didn't
01:27come to show their report, their card, their documents, because they knew that they cannot
01:33prove that they are citizens.
01:34That's why they may have gone to some other states like West Bengal.
01:38So SIR exercise across the country, once it will happen, you will ensure, you will see
01:43that there are many immigrants who illegally have come, they are Ghospatias, and that is
01:49why they will be identified.
01:50So Dr. Zafir Islam, you know, the SIR process of course has kicked off in states like West Bengal
01:55that you are referring to.
01:57You are referring to the SIR process, but as far as the government goes, are you then conceding
02:01that the government in Bihar has failed to crack down on infiltrators?
02:06See, you cannot make this kind of statement that who has failed, who has not failed.
02:13They are there, this process was there for ages, and that is Congress was always supporting
02:18that, RJD was supporting, but now there has to be some method of madness to ensure that
02:24that practice should stop.
02:26And that is why this SIR exercise that various other legislation which has been put in place
02:31will ensure, like for instance, SIR, there are people who have identified, they are illegal
02:36citizens, they are staying illegally in the country, they have identified, I am telling
02:41you again repeating, they have been identified.
02:44It has nothing to do with religion, it has nothing to do with any other concentration except
02:50they are illegal immigrants.
02:51But we don't have that number.
02:53And they, as I said, they have been identified, they will be deported.
02:58First objective was to identify, and you will soon see, you will soon see that they will
03:05be deported soon.
03:06So, it is an exercise which is to ensure that the youth of this country should not suffer,
03:12the citizen of this country should not suffer, the resources of this country is meant for
03:16the citizen of this country, not for illegal immigrants.
03:19We have nothing against anyone.
03:21Okay.
03:22Except those who are staying here illegally, and they should be deported.
03:25Instead, anybody, if you have any problem, they must speak about it.
03:29Let me bring in Anshul Avajit, National Spokesperson of the Congress.
03:33Anshul, the BJP, and you've heard Prime Minister Modi, Home Minister Amit Shah repeatedly say this,
03:37that the RGD and Congress are protecting infiltrators.
03:41No, you know, Akshita, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind what the singular reason for forcing this word
03:51ghospatia in the electoral lexicon of Bihar is.
03:54There's just one reason.
03:56I mean, this red herring was tried in Jharkhand as well.
03:59I was there throughout the election.
04:00They repeatedly said it.
04:01They got egg on their face.
04:02They faced a massive defeat.
04:04This is the same reason why the word Pakistan has also been brought in by a very senior minister who is a serial offender in this case.
04:12It is to divide the people of Bihar on communal grounds.
04:17Now, you're absolutely right.
04:19Gaurav asked the right question, and so did you.
04:21I mean, if the BJP, leave aside my argument, if the BJP had the noblest of intentions and the purity of mind, of feeling,
04:31in trying to tackle the problem of illegal infiltrators, then what were they doing for the last 11 years?
04:38I mean, they had a government in Bihar, a joint government in Bihar, a coalition for the better part of 20 years.
04:46They had enough time to get rid of this issue, as they call it.
04:50But they've been completely inept in doing that.
04:53In fact, this word, guspatia, is a self-proclamation of their incompetence and ineptness, if nothing else.
05:01Right?
05:01Now, the SIR report, Akshita, to bring home that point, makes no mention of guspatia.
05:07I mean, there have been 47 lakh deletions, I believe.
05:10In fact, it's very opaque.
05:12It does not mention what is the nature of the deletions.
05:15How many people were removed from the SIR deletion list because of lack of documentary evidence,
05:22that they couldn't supply that evidence?
05:24Maybe they were guspatias, maybe not.
05:26When is that list going to come out?
05:28When has the Home Ministry released a list of how many people have been deported?
05:32I don't have that list.
05:33I don't know.
05:34Is there a white paper on it?
05:36We took action against, in fact, this kind of illegal infiltration when the UPA is in power.
05:41So, let's set the record straight on that, considering this is constantly the allegation
05:47that's hurled at the Congress and the RGD.
05:49Anshul Abhijit, is the RGD and Congress protecting infiltrators?
05:54Can that be possible?
05:56It is the job of the Home Ministry to find out who the infiltrators are.
06:00I mean, they cannot abdicate from their responsibility like the Election Commission is doing here.
06:05The Election Commission is making the whole process so exclusionary.
06:08And completely abdicating, putting the owners...
06:11Okay, okay.
06:12I'm going to come back to you, Anshul.
06:13We're having a bit of a problem with your audio.
06:15I'll bring in Dr. Sanjay Kumar also on this of the JDU.
06:18Dr. Sanjay Kumar, the constant question that will come up from the RGD and Congress
06:21is that if infiltration is such a big issue in Simanchal, why was nothing done about it?
06:29Thank you, Akshita.
06:29I think, you know, I am joining from Katihar, one of the Simanchal districts.
06:35And since my childhood, what I have seen around Katihar and in the entire Simanchal
06:41is that Congress always encouraged people to come in and settle down in this area.
06:46So, the demographic change, shift happened in this area dramatically in the last 25-30 years.
06:54And, you know, it happens in a very subtle manner, you know, that, you know, it is not
07:02so obvious.
07:03But, you know, within, you know, last 25-30 years, I have seen so many changes.
07:09And today also, I was asking one of the drivers that, you know, from where did you come?
07:15When did you come?
07:16So, he said that my grandfather came here and they came from Murshidabad.
07:21So, a lot of people came from Murshidabad side and they are called Sirsavadi here.
07:26And, you know, Murshidabad is the border district in West Bengal, you know, very close to Bangladesh.
07:33And if you go to Murshidabad, if you go to West Bengal, a lot of things, a lot of people
07:39move morning to evening, you know, they come this side during the daytime, they work here
07:45and then they go back.
07:46And a lot of people also stay back.
07:48So, you know, this has been happening.
07:50But it's unchecked then.
07:51What you're telling me, Dr. Sanjay Kumar, is extremely concerning and worrying.
07:54It's unchecked, that means.
07:55Yeah, so, I think now the setting up of national demographic mission, I think, you know, government
08:05was probably looking for the apt, you know, vehicle or the platform to address this issue.
08:13It's a larger issue.
08:14It's not a very small issue.
08:15It's not only in Simulshan region.
08:17Now, you know, people may be in other parts of the country.
08:21You know, so we don't know yet.
08:22So, I think this is a task of national demographic mission, which has been set up by the Prime
08:26Minister.
08:27And I think we are going to address this issue, you know, and this is a serious issue in this
08:32part of the region and other parts of the country.
08:35Okay.
08:36I want to bring in Mohamed Amin, who is a former Joint Director of the Election Commission.
08:41Mr. Amin, a question that constantly also comes up here in the course of what's happened
08:45is a lot of focus on the SIR exercise.
08:48But why we don't have that specific data of how many of these foreigners were really
08:53identified or weeded out?
08:57Prachita, the responsibility of the Election Commission to register the national voters.
09:04And so many times the opposition and other parties have raised the question against the
09:09Election Commission that we have given the edge to the ruling party.
09:14And so many voters have deleted from the opposition parties and we supported the BJP party.
09:21But it's not fair.
09:23Actually, the Election Commission is a constitutional body.
09:26We never take any favor or do any favor to any stakeholders.
09:31All are the equal stakeholders in the country for the Election Commission doing this process
09:37for the election.
09:38So that's why the Election Commission has decided.
09:41So there's a long time period after we have decided Election Commission that we can start
09:46the SIR process.
09:47So SIR process means purify the electoral role.
09:51Electoral role, so we have to delete the dead voters, foreign voters, if they are registered
09:57in that last vote.
09:58But can we ever, Mr. Amin, can we ever expect a breakdown of what you're referring to?
10:03Pardon?
10:04Can we ever expect a breakdown of what you're referring to, of what the SIR exercise has
10:08succeeded in doing, how many of these foreigners have actually been identified and removed?
10:12Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:13This is the confidential matter, madam.
10:15And this is done by our BLOs, AIROs and District Election Officers.
10:21If they have got these fake voters or any foreign voters registered in this country, they are
10:27identified and confidentially they have given report to the Ministry of Home Affairs.
10:33This is the matter of the Ministry of Home Affairs to decide.
10:37So they can live here in India or they can, illegal immigrant, they can deport from country.
10:44And this is the matter of the Foreign Ministry and the Home Ministry.
10:47So this is not a matter of the Election Commission of India.
10:49So the Election Commission of India having their SIR process regularly, not from today,
10:562002, 2003, 2004.
10:59So every 10 years minimum, we can have the SIR process.
11:03So if any illegal immigrant from Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh and Myanmar, these are the surrounding
11:10borders of Bihar and Bangladesh, West Bengal.
11:14So we have to identify and confidentially we can submit to the report to the Ministry of
11:21Home Affairs.
11:21It is a matter of the Home Minister.
11:23They have to decide it.
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