- 3 months ago
Dating back to the earliest days of their music careers, Maggie Baird has helped her children, Billie Eilish and Finneas, to take an eco-conscious approach; in 2020, she founded Support + Feed, which aims to mitigate climate change and increase food security by increasing accessibility to plant-based foods, including at large-scale events like concerts. Eilish, Finneas, and Baird have been supported in their efforts by industry partners like REVERB, the nonprofit committed to creating a more sustainable music industry, and the merchandising company Bravado, which has helped develop forward-thinking and influential sustainability solutions for merch. Here, Baird, REVERB co-founder/co-director Adam Gardner, and Bravado president Matt Young reflect on their work in the green touring space – and look ahead at the work that remains. Moderated by: Katie Bain.
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00:00I'm Katie Bain. I'm the senior music correspondent at Billboard, and thanks.
00:05I'm here with three people who, every time I speak with them and report on what they're doing,
00:10I feel a sense of hope and inspiration, and I understand ways to take action.
00:17And so that's obviously in short supply these days, so I'm really excited to get into it with these three individuals.
00:23And I thought to start, just tell them a little bit about who you are and what you do.
00:27So, hey, I'm on the end here. I'm Matt Young. I run Bravado, which is a division of the Universal Music Group.
00:36It is one of the largest music merchandise companies in the world.
00:40I've been there about four years, but doing this a lot longer.
00:44I'm Maggie Baird, and I'm the mother of Billie Eilish and Phineas,
00:49and one of the things I do is just try to use their influence, I guess,
00:54to try to move more sustainable practices into the music industry.
00:59And I'm also the founder of Support and Feed, which is an organization dedicated to addressing
01:03the climate crisis and food equity and food insecurity
01:06by moving toward a more equitable plant-based food system.
01:11I'm Adam Gardner. I play in the band Guster, but I also co-founded and co-executive direct Reverb,
01:17which is an environmental nonprofit, working at the intersection of music and the environment,
01:21and have the pleasure of working with these two all the time.
01:25All right. So, it's incredible work, and obviously it's November, so we can start looking back on the year.
01:30And I would love to know the work that you've each done this year that has been a highlight for you
01:35and something that has been particularly meaningful.
01:39Do you want to keep going the same order?
01:40That was the same order. Cool.
01:42It's like school.
01:43For me, in this space in particular, we get to work with some of the biggest artists in the world
01:50and are inspired every day to do things that we haven't done before.
01:55And one of those things we did this year was recycle a warehouse full of old concert T-shirts.
02:03We had years and years of back stock.
02:05Like I said, I was only here four years, so 15-plus years beyond that of old tour returns
02:11that we were able to take to a company that broke down the fabric and created new cotton
02:19and allowed us to spin new cotton from old concert T-shirts.
02:24So, a warehouse full of stuff that looked like the closing scene of Indiana Jones
02:28when they rolled the ark into the warehouse.
02:31You guys are too young for that.
02:33I got you.
02:34This massive warehouse full of old T-shirts that no one even remembered were there
02:40and we're able to ship all these across the Atlantic, unfortunately,
02:44but we have to do what we can to a company in Morocco called Halitex
02:47that has the capability to break down the fabric and create new cotton.
02:51So, we're taking a warehouse full of stuff and making new things
02:55so you're getting a full, complete cycle on some stuff that people forgot about.
03:01That's incredible.
03:02That's a big deal.
03:02Yeah, huge.
03:03Maggie, and I know you were a part of that.
03:05Yes, but I want to piggyback on that because I brought the merch because I'm super excited about it
03:11because one of the things, and maybe this isn't the thing I'm going to say,
03:15but one of the things I love about Bravado is that in my work, I find some really interesting companies
03:24and I've sort of said, hey, meet Bravado, and they have just really done amazing things together
03:30and I'm super grateful about that
03:32and two of the companies are involved in that, Halitex and also SXD
03:36because these blanks are not only that amazing recycled fabric,
03:42but they're also with a different cutting pattern
03:44and that cutting pattern, which just means a cool little seam here and there,
03:50can save up to, let's see what this one says,
03:53this one says 32% decrease in fabric use.
03:59So it's the fabric and the cutting and those are going to be in some exciting new merch coming out.
04:05Yep, yep.
04:05I'm wearing one today.
04:06This is a sample of the t-shirt.
04:07Yeah.
04:08Fits.
04:09I think that's an amazing collaborative story.
04:12There's unbelievable things happening in technology, that's the big word I'm looking for,
04:17and design and I love that you guys are taking advantage of that.
04:20I think for me, the big thing of the year was this was a touring year for Billy
04:25and after many, many years in this industry, I feel like a lot of things came together this year.
04:33So we've had a long time partnership with Reverb on tour
04:37and we were able to expand that to so many things around the world with Support and Feed,
04:43which is the non-profit that I founded providing plant-based meals all around the world,
04:49plant-based food drives, getting arenas to offer plant-based food in the arenas has been one of the biggest things of the year,
04:57which I'd love to talk more about.
04:58But really just the extent of change that happened with venues and promoters and Oakview Group
05:05and culinary teams has been very exciting.
05:09That's amazing.
05:10Adam?
05:11Yeah, I'll definitely jump on both of those.
05:14For the tour, for certain, the Billie Eilish World Tour has been a huge highlight for us.
05:19It always is every time we get to be a part of it.
05:22Just incredible impact and just the passion that Maggie and Billie and her whole team has,
05:28and then the fans themselves have, is just incredible.
05:31So it's this wonderful community that has revolved around Billie and her efforts around sustainability
05:38that we as Reverb, we've done this for 20 plus years,
05:42but to have an artist that's this passionate and this vocal and walking the talk this heavily has been unbelievable.
05:48So we set up, one of the things that we do is we set up a fan action eco-village at every concert.
05:53Support and Feed is, of course, a big part of that.
05:55And fans plug in to take actions right there at the show.
05:58So far, the tour's not over yet, but so far, not even counting the current North American tour,
06:03over 170,000 fan actions have been taken at the action village at the shows.
06:08We've illuminated almost over, actually over 1.1,000, was it 1.1,000 tons of plastic pollution
06:20through our rock and refill program.
06:22So just like incredible impacts, lots of dollars raised for these local organizations
06:26that are getting people power, taking actions in their own community,
06:29but also getting some funds to support their efforts long after the tour is gone.
06:34So there's just so many incredible pieces.
06:36The other piece that I want to quickly say, if I may,
06:39is Maggie and Billie have been a huge part of launching Reverb's music decarbonization project,
06:44which only started in 2023, doing lots of different things that directly decarbonize music
06:50in several areas, merch being one of the newest.
06:53But on the battery front with clean energy at festivals to displace diesel generators,
06:59we did a festival this year in the heart of coal country with solar-powered battery systems
07:04of a concert called Healing Appalachia, which featured Tyler Childers and Chris Stapleton.
07:09And we battery-powered the entire festival with clean energy.
07:14So we reduced diesel fuel by 92%, and that was campground stuff.
07:20That was vendors.
07:20That was all the main stages.
07:22There's all power usage at the festival in the heart of coal country.
07:25So very exciting stuff.
07:27So these projects that are across a few different sectors,
07:30they all live in sustainability and live,
07:31but you're working on different projects.
07:33How are you seeing or are you seeing kind of a ripple effect of other people noticing what you're doing
07:39and then adopting the same tools and practices?
07:43Here we go.
07:44Yeah.
07:46For me, I think Universal is one of the bigger ones out there.
07:49This, for us, is just about using the platform to tell the story,
07:53and it gets our competition to follow suit, right?
07:58The artists are saying, hey, how come we can't do that?
08:00We currently have Billy out, Paul McCartney out,
08:03Lorde is just finished, and Shawn Mendes is just finished,
08:07all of which were done with sustainable merchandise.
08:10And people are seeing that and saying, hey, I want that too.
08:13Why do they have that and I don't?
08:15Yep.
08:15If we can do it, and listen, I get some guff from time to time from our finance guys
08:21because the margins aren't exactly the same.
08:23But it's the right thing to do, and it's getting the competition to take notice.
08:28The real win is when this becomes the norm.
08:31Right.
08:32And we get it there by showing the world it can be done.
08:35Everyone else gets on the bandwagon.
08:37The scale comes down.
08:38The availability is wider spread.
08:41So that's the goal.
08:42Make this the norm.
08:43Right.
08:44I see the difference even, I think, when we started, you know, several years ago now,
08:49really having much more sustainable merch, you know, the storytelling was crucial to us
08:55because, you know, the first impulse of a fan is, like, it's expensive, you know?
08:59So we kind of leaned into it.
09:01We're like, yes, it is expensive, you know?
09:04And here's why.
09:05Everything from the labor cost to the environmental impact, you know,
09:09we have really unrealistic expectations for what food should cost
09:14and what fashion should cost from every aspect of it.
09:17So we really leaned into, like, tell the story, buy less merch.
09:21This is why it's more expensive.
09:23It'll last a long time.
09:25You don't need to buy ten things.
09:27You can buy one.
09:28But I feel like even from the start of that till now, it's just much more.
09:31People understand the story better.
09:33It's not so shocking anymore.
09:36And along those lines, one of the things we were doing this year,
09:40when we do have the arenas, in Billy's Rider,
09:43we have a requirement that venues have to have at least three plant-based mains.
09:50Not just popcorn and pretzels, but, like, three main dishes that are plant-based.
09:55And many of the arenas, well, they all do it because they have to,
09:58but many of them go much further than that,
10:01and they have even gone fully plant-based in many of the arenas.
10:05But what we realized was we really needed to add some help to that,
10:08so we started doing these culinary trainings on these fall legs
10:13where we partnered with Support and Feed and Greener by Default
10:18to offer culinary trainings.
10:20So we talked to the staff about, first of all, all the reasons why.
10:24You know, that of your carbon costs at a concert,
10:27the two big ones are fan transportation and food.
10:31That is the biggest impact at a show.
10:34So we talk about the whys,
10:35but then we go into, like, how can we help you?
10:38And also, by the way, one of the whys is you can save money.
10:40And that's really an important part of the storytelling
10:43of getting arenas to understand it's actually cheaper
10:46to serve whole plant-based foods.
10:50And then we offer tools, tools about menu guidance,
10:54creating dishes, how to sell more of them.
10:56You know, you don't just put the vegan option, you know, at the bottom.
11:00Like, vegan burger, you're not going to sell that.
11:02You know, you want it to be number two with a great name
11:05and, you know, the juicy sizzling mushroom patty, you know.
11:09So we're offering those and really getting feedback.
11:12Like, how is it working for you?
11:14What are the drawbacks?
11:15What are the ways fans are appreciating it?
11:19What are your chefs objecting to?
11:20So that, I think, has been a really successful change
11:23because if we can get those changes to stay in an arena
11:27after Billy leaves, that's what will really make the difference.
11:30Yeah, that's what I love.
11:32You're offering something that will last after you leave
11:34and you're offering an education that people are not going to just jettison
11:37after Billy's show has toured on.
11:42And by the way, I think I didn't answer your question,
11:45which was, are people leaning in?
11:47And yes, they absolutely are.
11:49We keep hearing from the culinary staffs, et cetera,
11:52that they're happy for this because other artists are asking for it.
11:56So they're already prepared, and that's what really makes the difference
11:59when many people ask for it.
12:01That's so cool.
12:02Adam, what about you?
12:03Yeah, I would agree.
12:04Like, our role as Reverb is to work with many artists.
12:07We're their partners as far as making their tours more sustainable,
12:10both behind the scenes and also engaging fans to make changes in their own lives
12:15and supporting those local groups.
12:18Having more and more artists, like, so when we have an artist like Billy
12:20and we work with those requests and the things that we try to do,
12:24even at the booking stage, we're like, well, here are the things that we'd like to see happen.
12:29We make sure that other artists are echoing that,
12:31so it's not as easy for a venue to change everything the second Billy comes through
12:36and be like, well, hold on, you've got Dave Matthews Band right behind you
12:38and you've got Dame Impala and Lorde and whoever else is coming right behind this tour.
12:43So, once enough artists are all asking for the same things, they make permanent change.
12:48We've seen that starting to happen in a very real way.
12:51Well, tell me more about that because you've been doing this work, like you said, for a long time.
12:55So, I'm wondering about just the general interest in the type of work that Reverb does
12:59now compared to, you know, 2005.
13:04Fortunately, there is a difference, which is great.
13:07Yeah, in 2004 when we started, we felt very alone
13:10and we felt like we had to do everything despite what wasn't happening in the industry.
13:16And now we feel like, no, we have incredible support from folks like Maggie and Billy
13:20and all these other major touring artists
13:23and not just from the musicians, but from the industry that's been built around them.
13:29So, you're having Bravado making real significant sweeping changes and leading the way now
13:34and you have venues making significant changes
13:37and taking pride in their sustainability efforts.
13:39There were no sustainability teams at any of these places when we started.
13:43Now they are and they are really making real changes and they want this to happen.
13:47So, it's our role to help make it happen exactly in the ways that Maggie's talking about and beyond.
13:53So, obviously, it's been a disheartening time in terms of federal environmental policy,
13:59to say the least.
14:01I'm wondering if you're seeing the effects of that policy in your work
14:06or do you kind of exist in enough of a bubble that you can keep doing what you're doing
14:10and not be affected?
14:13For us, I think we have to do it even more now.
14:16Right?
14:17You have to make the options available
14:18and make sure artists that maybe wouldn't have thought about it in the past
14:21are exposed to their choices.
14:24For sure.
14:25I wouldn't say it's a direct result, but it certainly gets the conversation started in a different way.
14:29Sure.
14:31Well, I'll pivot to the non-profit.
14:33Of course, we really are seeing it.
14:36You know, we're feeding people who are experiencing food insecurity
14:38and that's just...
14:41It was already devastating enough and now it's absolutely terrifying.
14:45So, our work has really had to radically increase to help meet need
14:49and also we've had to change our strategies to protect people who are receiving meals.
14:55So, the government policies have been incredibly challenging for us
14:59as everyone in the food space has seen.
15:03I think on the Billy side of it, I think...
15:07Gosh, you know, I'm going to quote her because every night she does a show
15:11and she says it almost feels...
15:13She, you know, wonders if she should even be here doing a show
15:16and having an amazing time.
15:17But on the other hand, you need art more than ever.
15:21You need people coming together and, you know, being in communion with each other
15:25and community and finding common ground.
15:27So, you know, I think it's a really horrible moment in time
15:34but it also provides opportunity to...
15:38We can make these changes without permission
15:41and changes are happening all over the world.
15:44While the United States is really dragging and going backwards,
15:50many countries are soaring and doing incredible things.
15:54And so, not to let that go, like, you know, it's not all on our shoulders
15:58but to at least have some feeling like we can do this in the music industry, right?
16:05And that's a powerful...
16:07And hopefully we'll get through it
16:08and then look where we will have already gotten.
16:10Absolutely.
16:11Adam, is there anything you want to add there?
16:13Yeah, I'll just say the response to what's happening
16:16as far as the political environment right now,
16:19at least what we're seeing is more people being emboldened
16:22and wanting to do more.
16:24And whether that's artists coming to us
16:25or fans in the Action Village being like,
16:27I need to do something
16:28and we'll hear all the actions you can take to it.
16:31Plug in.
16:31And so, it's actually, in a weird way,
16:33we're seeing more momentum and energy
16:36with what we're doing than ever.
16:38That's frightening.
16:38That's great.
16:40Maggie, obviously the urgent question this week is SNAP benefits.
16:46Do you have any recommendations
16:47for what people in the music industry can do
16:49to help the 42 million Americans
16:51that are losing those benefits this week?
16:54Yeah, I'm so glad you asked
16:55because we are literally putting together a food drive,
16:58a plant-based food drive.
17:00And let me just clarify,
17:02why are we doing plant-based food?
17:03Because we know that plant-based food is more sustainable, right?
17:06So, it's a major change we can make
17:07to make environmental impact.
17:10So, if we're going to feed people,
17:11let's also take that opportunity
17:13to make climate-friendly food
17:15also the healthiest food that people can eat.
17:17So, we have literally, in 24 hours,
17:19thrown together a plant-based food drive tomorrow
17:21for Rico Nasty's show at the Fonda.
17:24And anyone can, we can help with this
17:27in any city, any venue.
17:29So, adding plant-based food drives at venues.
17:32You know, if people just bring one non-perishable item
17:35to a show with those kind of numbers,
17:37that really, really adds up.
17:38And just checking out what supportandfeed.org,
17:41what we're doing in any city.
17:43But I think that's a direct, immediate thing
17:45that you can do.
17:45Of course, you always want to be checking out
17:47where your food waste goes,
17:49your food excess, let's say,
17:50because whenever you do any kind of an event,
17:53you probably are going to have some extra food.
17:55So, preparing for that in advance,
17:58really thinking,
17:58what are we going to do with our food
18:00at the end of the night?
18:00How can we make sure that any extra food
18:03we have is kept safe, health-wise,
18:06and so we are only putting out what we need?
18:08And then making sure you have a place
18:09to take that at the end of the night
18:11is another great idea for all the major events
18:14that happen in the music industry.
18:15Major and small, by the way.
18:17Right, that's huge.
18:18Just using the food that's already there,
18:19that would get thrown out.
18:20Yeah.
18:21Matt, I'm super curious.
18:23You mentioned that artists noticing
18:25that Billy, for example,
18:28is using this really cool sustainable merch.
18:30How do you introduce the conversation
18:33to artists who may have no idea
18:35what you're doing?
18:36And then, as you said,
18:37the margins are different,
18:38so how do you sell it to them?
18:41I think the ultimate sell is
18:43this is the right thing to do.
18:45And we did, it wasn't that long ago,
18:47it was a few months ago,
18:48we did a summit in Nashville
18:49where we're sitting down with the partners in town
18:52and just talking about the options.
18:54And half the time they're going,
18:56I didn't realize that.
18:58And the other part about this is
18:59because we've done so much
19:01over the last three, four years,
19:03you're starting to see the price change,
19:05the price gap close a bit.
19:07So, the way we started it
19:10beyond the artists who were proactive in the space
19:12was to do an online version
19:15of the greatest hits tee, right?
19:17Like, everyone has, like, the logo tee.
19:19The Beatles drop tee is an example,
19:22classic Beatles logo.
19:23We did an online drop
19:25of 100% sustainable blank option,
19:29which was a few dollars more,
19:31but we explained why in the description.
19:34There's no reason an artist would say no to that.
19:37So, we now have dozens of artists
19:39that have sustainable options.
19:42And some of them, you know,
19:43sure, they know,
19:44but I don't think they would be able to quote
19:46and say,
19:46that's our sustainable versus our non-sustainable.
19:49But you just do it.
19:51Right?
19:52To your point,
19:53we don't need permission.
19:54Like, the artists,
19:56you're going to argue with me
19:57that you don't want to do the right thing?
19:59Sure.
20:00Sure, okay, it's in writing now
20:02that you don't want to do the right thing.
20:05And in today's day and age,
20:06that shit gets out sometimes.
20:07I'm just kidding.
20:08No, we would never do that.
20:09But it is options.
20:12The options are there.
20:13It's easy to do.
20:15It's no lift.
20:16It's the same approved artwork.
20:18It's just a better product for the world.
20:20Can I just say that
20:21in the beginning of the Billy journey, right,
20:24we used to get,
20:25and it was a different,
20:26it wasn't Matt, so.
20:27Bad Matt.
20:28I'm just kidding.
20:29But we used to get boxes and boxes of samples, right?
20:34And, you know,
20:34Billy is a real, you know, fashion person.
20:37Like, she has a really amazing taste.
20:39And so she might like the feel of one,
20:42not the feel of another,
20:43and that would be really important,
20:44or the look of this, you know?
20:46And then I was like,
20:47but that's not the sustainable one.
20:49Where are the sustainable ones?
20:50And then we started going like,
20:52only send us those.
20:53Like, we don't need,
20:54first of all,
20:55we don't need all those samples.
20:56Second, I mean,
20:57that was a problem to begin with.
20:58They're shipping these samples all over the place.
21:01And, by the way,
21:02merch is such an interesting topic
21:04because there's a different strategy
21:06depending on where you are in the world,
21:08what will be the more sustainable option.
21:10So you have to really be able to
21:11think about subtlety and nuance as well.
21:13But, you know,
21:14we just got to the point where, like,
21:15don't even show us the other versions, right?
21:17And if Billy would say,
21:19but I don't like the feel of this,
21:21or I don't like the cut of this,
21:22the great thing is
21:24then people have to push their innovations
21:26and go,
21:27okay, what do you want?
21:29How do we make that?
21:31Like, this shoe, like Nike, you know,
21:33originally with Nike,
21:35the sustainable ones,
21:38the recycled soles,
21:39all looked like they were recycled, you know?
21:42And she was like,
21:43well, I don't want it to look like it was recycled.
21:45I just want it to be recycled.
21:46And so it creates innovation.
21:48So I think it's important to think about
21:51from merch from the beginning,
21:52if you just kind of
21:53throwing hundreds of choices at people,
21:56it's overwhelming.
21:57Just give them the right ones to begin with.
21:59Only let them choose from the good options.
22:01Exactly, yeah.
22:02The problem is there's no button on the computer
22:04that says make this the sustainable option.
22:06You're designing into sustainability
22:09because of the screen printing.
22:11You're manufacturing and getting blanks
22:13from companies that support and can provide it.
22:16You're worried about the shipping,
22:17the bags in the warehouse.
22:18The, you know, all of that.
22:21Every step of the way, there's a challenge.
22:24But there's no reason not to do it either.
22:27And it also never stops.
22:28Just like, they hear from me all the time, right?
22:31I'm like, I got a piece of merch in a plastic bag today.
22:36What is happening?
22:37You know, like mistakes happen.
22:39Things are, you know, they,
22:40it's like you just constantly have to stay vigilant
22:43and know that it's like not going to be perfect overnight,
22:46but you just have to,
22:48you just have to keep trying.
22:50And there's no reason not to.
22:52Yeah.
22:53Adam, you mentioned briefly the batteries,
22:55which is a big thing that I've been reporting on
22:58of just kind of the shift that's happening
22:59with the supply.
23:02And just tell us a little bit about what you're seeing
23:05in terms of diesel to clean power.
23:07Yeah, I mean, the first step was just convincing folks
23:11that it was feasible and that it was okay.
23:13And because obviously we're talking about powering the stage.
23:15Nobody wants the power to go out during a concert.
23:18So it is scary.
23:19And yet it's also necessary.
23:21Diesel generators are the default festivals
23:23and they're one of the worst sources of power
23:25as far as the environment's concerned available.
23:28So, and they're unpleasant.
23:29They're noisy and they smell like who wants them?
23:32So it was, it was a lot just to convince folks
23:34like this works, it's okay.
23:35It's actually, we found even more stable than generators
23:39because there's no moving parts
23:40and you don't have to manage,
23:41you don't have to do a lot of maintenance on them.
23:45But of course, when you're trying something new,
23:47there's always things.
23:48And it was very scary where we did it
23:50with Billy's team at Lollapalooza in 2023
23:52because it had never been done at that scale before.
23:55And that was the main stage, right?
23:56It was a main stage.
23:58Yeah, that's pretty big.
23:58And Phineas and Billy, if Phineas were here,
24:02you know, they had the burden on stage
24:04because it looked perfect to the audience,
24:06but in fact, you know,
24:07the computers were going out and stuff
24:09and it was quite hair raising for them.
24:13But that was the learning
24:14so that the next year it could be so much better.
24:17Yeah, and so Lollapalooza's continued
24:18to use batteries on stage since that year.
24:21And so it's been huge
24:22and they've been doing that on the main stage.
24:24We did it again this year with them
24:26to make it even more efficient than the prior.
24:28Well, what I love about everything you're all saying
24:31is we're proving that it works.
24:33So take the tool that we made and run with it
24:35because now we have the thing.
24:37And so in that vein,
24:39what are you seeing for next year
24:41in terms of things that are coming
24:42in the sustainability sector
24:44that we should be on the lookout for
24:46and that you're particularly excited about?
24:47I don't know if there's any one thing,
24:51but the beauty of this is every day
24:53there's a new innovative sort of entrepreneurial company
24:56trying something new in the space.
24:58And it's fun for us to excel.
25:00Hey, that's a great idea.
25:01Let's just, let's make some of those
25:03and we can fund that,
25:04which gets them going
25:05and builds the momentum for those companies.
25:08So for me, it's the continue learning.
25:10We're just getting started.
25:12It's literally just getting started
25:14and we're starting to see some change.
25:16As long as we're open-minded
25:18and just questioning every day,
25:19what else could we do?
25:20How do we do that better?
25:21Are there other options?
25:22I think we're in the right place
25:24to continue the momentum.
25:26That's exciting.
25:27Just getting started.
25:28Cool.
25:29Maggie?
25:30Yeah, I don't think I have like one big thing either.
25:32I think what I really like to focus on
25:37is that it doesn't really require just one person.
25:41It doesn't even really require the artist.
25:43Just because we've kind of made it very forward-facing,
25:47the artist doesn't need to make it forward-facing.
25:50All they need to do is tell their team
25:53that they care about it.
25:55And then everyone on the team
25:57has the obligation to find out.
25:59So the person who designs the merch,
26:01the person who makes the vinyl,
26:03they're going to use the recycled vinyl, right?
26:05The gifting, the events,
26:07whatever the team is,
26:09they take on that mantle.
26:10And even if the artist themselves
26:12doesn't particularly care,
26:15like maybe their cause that they are more concerned about
26:19is something else,
26:20those people can do that anyway.
26:22So my hope is that this will come from managers,
26:25and this will come from labels,
26:27and literally booking,
26:30publishing companies,
26:33PR companies,
26:34that everybody will have this in their mind,
26:37and that they'll all take this on,
26:38and that somebody will always remember to say,
26:41oh, could we do something different?
26:44And so that's what I think will change the status quo.
26:47And there will still be room for people to carry the flag
26:50and say, this is what we did,
26:52and this is how we're doing it,
26:54and that's important.
26:55But you can also just make it part of what you do
26:58that's just a status quo.
27:01Great.
27:02Adam, anything?
27:03I mean, for the next year,
27:05what's coming up,
27:06we're going to be focusing quite a bit on fan travel
27:08because it is such a huge part of any part of a concert
27:11as far as the current footprint goes.
27:13We did a study that came out earlier this year
27:16called the Reverb Concert Travel Study
27:18that once and for all showed.
27:20We did a two-year study of how fans got to concerts
27:23and their attitudes towards travel.
27:24But the fan travel is over 38 times that
27:27of the artists' travel,
27:28their accommodations,
27:29and their gear transport combined.
27:31So it's super significant,
27:34and it'll be a challenge
27:36because it requires multiple parties.
27:38So we're talking to municipalities,
27:41we're talking to venues,
27:42we're talking to private businesses,
27:43we're talking to artists,
27:44we're talking to promoters,
27:46because it takes many hands to turn that wheel,
27:48and it's a larger symptom of transportation
27:51in this country in general.
27:53But it's also a really cool opportunity for music
27:56because it has such a huge voice
27:59and because it drives so many people,
28:01it's really exciting,
28:02and we're getting interest from mayors
28:04and from municipalities
28:06and from transit authorities
28:07because they understand
28:09when an artist like Billy
28:10is going to promote their public transit,
28:14that's huge.
28:15And it has ripple effects
28:17well beyond that event.
28:18That's all pretty major stuff, guys.
28:21Thank you for all of this incredible work.
28:23We are out of time,
28:24so let's give these guys a round of applause.
28:26It's really inspiring stuff.
28:27Well, thanks.
28:38Thanks.
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