- 10 months ago
Sponsored by Allegiant Stadium, today, it increasingly feels like women have broken the agency space's glass ceiling, yet women agents continue to face gender-specific challenges like navigating motherhood in a rapidly paced job. In this panel, four women whose careers are testaments to greater inclusivity in this sector – Jenna Adler (CAA), Marsha Vlasic (Independent Artist Group), Sara Williams (WME), and Elisa Vazzana (UTA) – will discuss navigating the live business, their clients' touring strategies and the status of that glass ceiling. Moderated by: Hannah Karp
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MusicTranscript
00:00Hello everyone, I'm Hannah Karp. I'm the editor-in-chief of Billboard and I am so
00:06lucky to be here today with some of the most powerful women in the live music
00:11business. We have Marsha Vlasic of Artist Group International, The Goat, as we
00:18explained to her, means the greatest of all time. We have Jenna Adler of CAA. We
00:27have Elisa Vazana of UTA. And we have Miss Sarah Williams from WME. So I would
00:38love to start by just hearing from each of you a few of the big clients you
00:42represent and what are the big challenges that you're facing right now.
00:47Marsha, do you want to start?
00:51Anyway, yes, some of my clients are The Strokes, Cage the Elephant, Neil Young,
00:57Nora Jones. I guess the biggest challenge is keeping everybody happy,
01:03whether it's the artists, the managers, the promoters, and trying to do the right
01:10thing for the artists and sell tickets.
01:15Jenna, what about you?
01:17I'm Jenna Adler and some of the artists that I work with are Green Day and
01:23Deftones to the Ya Ya Ya's to Charlie XCX to Doja Cat, etc. I think the biggest, did you say challenge?
01:35Yeah. What are you...
01:36The biggest challenge is really sort of making sure that the artists are okay and taking care of them
01:41while they're on the road and making the decisions that serve them. But also, you know, make sure that,
01:49that, Marsha says, that everybody's happy. Mm-hmm. Sarah, what about you?
01:55I'm Sarah Williams. I work at WME in Nashville across both contemporary and country clients in the
02:01tour marketing space. So I work on Zach Bryan, Luke Combs, Jason Isbell, Maren Morris, Pucifer, a few others,
02:10depending on the day and what surprises await me in my inbox. So my challenge is, I think for most of us
02:19in this room, it's time, when the information comes, when it needs to get out the door, and what needs to
02:25get done between those two things happening.
02:29I'm Elisa Vazana. I'm at UTA. I work with, predominantly in the country space, I cross over a little bit into some Jam
02:36band stuff. But I work with Megan Maroney, predominantly, and Buffalo Traffic Jam, who's a young duo out of Montana.
02:44I work with Chase Beckham, who's another country artist, and Willow Avalon.
02:48Terrific. I think the, I mean, I think the challenge is to echo everybody, you know, and what they haven't said.
02:53I think for me, especially, with my, specifically with Megan, is finding a way to make the fans happy.
02:59I think we do focus a lot on keeping the artists happy, and keeping the managers happy, and keeping kind of the core team happy.
03:06But to, you know, take a step further, especially with her fan base, you know, they'll scream into the vacuum any chance they can.
03:13And so it's about keeping them happy as well.
03:16Obviously, one of the biggest challenges for everybody is trying to get tickets into the hands of fans,
03:22and keep the fans happy without letting scalpers take the profits.
03:27Can you talk about the ticketing strategies that you're seeing that are working, and what's backfiring?
03:34You should take that.
03:36They all just looked at me.
03:39So, first of all, it is about the client in a lot of those situations, and as Lisa said, the fan.
03:47So, I work on Luke Combs.
03:49Cappy, as some of you know, his philosophy is fans first.
03:52And I try to adopt that across a lot of our clients that we work on.
03:57I think we all do.
03:58That's not unique, but when he drills that in, and you really look at it from the fan perspective,
04:04it changes some of your directives.
04:06But as far as ticketing, you know, it's ever-changing.
04:10It's whack-a-mole to a certain extent.
04:13The thing I shout from the highest rooftops is right pricing, which sometimes is difficult,
04:20because that means you are potentially having expensive tickets in the market.
04:25But if that's what people are willing to pay, it's better that it goes to the artist, potentially,
04:30than to the scalpers, because having a lot of tickets for well under what the artist is priced at creates a black market.
04:39And that's what the secondary can be.
04:42It's not a perfect science.
04:44And, you know, you'll have a client who's in a position one day, and then the next something changes, and demand changes.
04:51But I think that's good.
04:53I think working with our partners in ticketing and promoter spaces, understanding what is important to the client,
05:01and therefore what we should focus on as opposed to trying to do too much or too little is really the key.
05:10Mm-hmm.
05:11Lisa, what about you?
05:12I think that we, you know, there's a lot of different tools that have kind of come out in the last year or two.
05:18If anyone here has heard of OpenStage, that's a platform where you can really dial in and look at who your fan is,
05:24how they spend, what their click-through rates are on emails you send out or contests you run.
05:29And so I think you're going to see a combination of using really intentional data to target people with special opportunities
05:37in combination with something like a Reggie or Seated or some of these other platforms
05:43that kind of do mostly a good job of scrubbing to get the fans' tickets directly.
05:50But I think what we're going to have to do as an industry is be willing to take risks and say,
05:54this is something we haven't done before.
05:56We're willing to try it.
05:57If it works, great.
05:58If it doesn't, you know, maybe try something different next time.
06:02I think you have to, like Sarah said, you have to have buy-in from your client on what you want to try to implement
06:07and make sure that it matches up with what they're looking for in terms of their touring and ticketing strategy.
06:13And I think on the OpenStage front, that's the other thing we're shouting from rooftops right now,
06:18is artists getting invested in their data.
06:22Because for a long time, artists haven't fully owned that.
06:26It's with the label, it's with the promoter, it's with the ticketing company.
06:29And not that it shouldn't be there too, but having some of that knowledge will get tickets to the fan, as opposed to random.
06:39And I think it also encourages fan engagement.
06:42Because when you, as a fan, feel like your favorite artist is watching and seeing the kind of things that you do,
06:47I think it's less Big Brother feeling today more than ever.
06:50Because people are used to feeling like they're being watched.
06:53You start talking, and the next thing you know, Instagram is showing you whatever kind of an ad for something you were just talking about.
07:00So I think there's less resistance, especially from a younger demographic, to give away their information.
07:05And as long as you can look at that and mine it accurately, you can be really targeted,
07:09and it can feel like you have an outsized impact on your fan.
07:12How, as agents, do you help artists get invested in their data?
07:17I think it's really about providing artists and art teams all the information that's out there.
07:22Going back to, I think, what you said, Sarah, is that it is Whack-A-Mole.
07:26That it is the Wild Wild West.
07:27And that we're also learning in real time with you all.
07:30Isn't it so hard to believe that there has been nothing that can control the scalping situation?
07:37It's beyond belief that there isn't a fix.
07:43And, you know, there are artists that have certain tolerance for the new methods and artists that don't.
07:51Yeah.
07:52And trying to raise the ticket prices so that scalpers don't buy them to resell them sometimes backfires.
08:02The sign-up systems seem to be working better than some of the other systems.
08:08But it's just, it's hard to believe that every time there's a new platform, whether it be face value or this one or the other one, and none of them work.
08:18Yeah.
08:19I mean, is this something that you're using AI to figure out how to...
08:23I was just going to say that there's such a blue space for leaning into AI and the music business of AI.
08:30Because I don't think that anybody has cracked that code yet.
08:34So that is, I think, the next iteration of where we should all really sort of put our resources.
08:41But where can it benefit where it doesn't impact on the artist's creativity?
08:46Well, in terms, right.
08:49How are you seeing the live business change over the next few years?
08:54What are the trends you're seeing?
08:55How different do you think it's going to look in two years from now?
08:59I think the micro-residencies are only going to get more and more expansive.
09:05Micro-residencies meaning it's no longer a 45-day tour across the country.
09:10It's more like five or six markets, and we're going to do multiple dates.
09:15I think it not only saves on cost, because it's so expensive to tour these days, especially as a mid-level and young artist,
09:23that these micro-residencies actually really help curtail that.
09:29So I think that's really interesting.
09:31Great. Sarah, any trends on your radar?
09:35I think the booking teams are going to get smarter and more precise.
09:43And some of that is the data, the understanding.
09:48Obviously, we do this all the time.
09:50It's ever-evolving.
09:51This isn't new.
09:52But as we have more of that information, where to go, how long we should be there,
09:56what size rooms we should play, where we can invest some of the money that gets saved
10:01if you are doing five cities versus trucking all over the country.
10:07Now you've got some pretty awesome production, and you get to do some really cool stuff for the fans,
10:13which I think is clutch.
10:15But even as artists may want to stay in one place longer, the global market has really been expanding,
10:23and there's new infrastructure in markets where there wasn't before.
10:27So how do you balance or prioritize global touring for developing acts, especially, versus national touring?
10:35I don't think it's prioritizing global. Global is the priority.
10:38Right.
10:39So I think that as we're planning 24-month calendars, I think that we're looking at all of it
10:44and sort of making sure that there's breaks in between and just really being mindful for the artists,
10:49because it's grueling out there.
10:51Yes, but another thing is that in most cases, with most acts, they mean something in some territories
10:58and not the same in others.
11:01So there has to be a balance of where they make their money to afford to be able to play the territories where they're not as valuable.
11:11So you have to figure out when you're going to this place or that place so you can pay for it.
11:17Yeah.
11:18And I think it's always easier, especially if you, you know, I think Jenna and I have a very similar philosophy in that, you know,
11:24if you take that, if you're doing clubs in the States and then you're going to move into large ballrooms and theaters,
11:29you know, take that little bit of a win and go start your club tour in your international territories.
11:34Because I think the one mistake specifically, I think you see it a lot in country, maybe not as prevalent in other genres.
11:41But I think for country, you kind of get into this.
11:43It's, you know, second verse, same as the first.
11:46You're going on and you're doing this annual tour, hitting the same markets, playing the same buildings.
11:50And at a certain point, especially, you know, if the economy fluctuates one way or the other,
11:55you're going to have people who start to be a little more judicious with where they spend their money
11:59and whether they want to go see a new act or someone that they've already seen, whether they're a super fan or not.
12:03I think for Australia is a huge global expansion for country right now.
12:08And so investing in those markets early and going and doing what you might still, you know, be in the red when you're doing it.
12:14But it's not as far as that when you have just now decided I've exhausted North America and now I've got to go find a new revenue stream.
12:21It hurts a lot more when you have a much bigger team to try to go build it then than if you had just done it from day one and taken those incremental steps.
12:28I also think the international audiences really appreciate the early investment.
12:33And when they can go see you for 15, 20 pounds, whatever it is that you're worth when you go over there,
12:39that's just another connection point to the fan that feels like they're growing with you.
12:43International relations have obviously been sort of tricky lately.
12:48Have you experienced any issues with artists not being able to get visas?
12:53How has that affected your business?
12:55Everybody's quite worried about that.
12:57And I don't think there's a certain time that you could actually plan on getting the visas.
13:04And it keeps getting delayed and delayed and delayed.
13:07So how do you manage that as an agent?
13:10You have to apply really early and beg.
13:13Yeah.
13:14Call in favors, I suppose.
13:16Yeah.
13:17What is it like being a woman in this business in 2025?
13:22Much different than it was.
13:24Go, Marcia.
13:25Let the goat speak.
13:27I mean, really?
13:29I mean, women that complain about women today in this business have no right to do so.
13:35There are more women in our business than ever.
13:40And when I started out, there were three.
13:43So.
13:44Okay.
13:45So from your perspective, it's improved.
13:47It is tremendously.
13:48Yeah.
13:49But I think it's thanks to women like Marcia, who did not put up with anything and continued
13:54to say, I deserve to be in the room.
13:56I'm here for the right reasons.
13:57I'm smart.
13:58I'm talented.
13:59And I'm just as deserving.
14:01We are the beneficiaries of that as the younger women in the agency space.
14:05Well, you had a fight.
14:06Yeah.
14:07If you didn't, then you would have been eaten up and chewed up and spit out.
14:12You know, it wouldn't have worked.
14:14Yeah.
14:15We continue to be the light bringers of that as well.
14:18Mm-hmm.
14:19Like, learning from the past, being in rooms with women who have taught us to come into
14:26the room and bring another woman in the room and have those conversations.
14:30Cause it's not over like it's much better, but it's, it's not over the number of times
14:36we could be on a screen and be one of the only women or the only woman on the screen
14:41or in the room is significant in this business still.
14:45Mm-hmm.
14:46But yeah, I was just going to say and reiterate that we've come a long way.
14:51Cause I think I'm in the middle of you all.
14:54Yeah.
14:55So I also was the only, I was the first female promoted inside this, our offices.
15:00So I feel like we have come such a long way, but there's so much more to do, you know,
15:05because more and more, it's also, you know, a game of attrition too, because at some point,
15:10sometimes you opt out and that's okay, but we do belong in the room and we have to advocate
15:17for ourselves and we have to continue to advocate and fight to be in that room.
15:22You must do it.
15:23You must do it.
15:24That's what I'm saying.
15:25You cannot expect to be, have the path led for you.
15:28You have to create it yourself.
15:30That's right.
15:31And so you can't just use the word.
15:33I'm a woman.
15:34What?
15:35I'm a woman.
15:36Oh, I thought you said, I thought you said I'm a poor.
15:39Sure not.
15:40I was like, I was like, what?
15:45What?
15:46I think part of that is too, you know, sometimes, um, sorry.
15:51Sorry.
15:52Wow.
15:54Spice it up.
15:55Um, sometimes I just feel like we have to continue to fight for each other and to be
16:01there and show up for each other.
16:02Yeah.
16:03Because as much as people try to pit us against each other, because that has been the history.
16:09I think a lot of times we've felt that, um, it's very quick to say, oh, well, they don't
16:14get along.
16:15Do you know?
16:16Like you'd never say that about, in all due respect, two men.
16:19Yeah.
16:20I mean, you would, but it doesn't come off as being two catty women.
16:24So I just feel like we need to just keep, you know, screaming and amplifying from the
16:28rooftops that we do belong in the room.
16:31It's a system.
16:32It's systemic at times.
16:33Then we just have to remind people and seeing some pictures over the last even few months
16:38of just all, you know, men around a boardroom is still jarring, right?
16:44Yeah.
16:45I've always said it's not a disadvantage to be a woman.
16:48And I firmly believe that.
16:49And I think it's, I was raised by a dad who was like, get in there, do the job, be smarter
16:55than everybody else.
16:56And, and, and by the way, sometimes maybe I have to yell a little louder, but I don't
17:00see that as, um, a negative.
17:03I see it as a necessity.
17:04And if it helps move women forward, so be it.
17:09What advice do you give to young people who are coming up in the business?
17:14They want to be agents or they want to be in the live space.
17:18At the end of the day, you really have to just work hard and be passionate.
17:23There's no version of just getting by today because ever, but really in today's, in today's
17:31world, it's just that hustle has to be on.
17:34You have to be curious.
17:35You have to go out.
17:36You have to network all of it.
17:39I mean, you've got a hundred and thousand people right behind you, just ready to take
17:44and you will do it for free.
17:45Yeah.
17:46And you out.
17:47Yeah.
17:48The biggest problem is I think that everybody's looking for this book that gives the, the,
17:53the plan or the, the directions on how to do it.
17:56And that doesn't work or what hours you do it.
18:00My biggest problem with people or teaching young people to how to do what we do is there are
18:09no hours.
18:10There are, there is no weekends.
18:12There are, I see Jenna and Jenna sees me on more Saturdays and Sundays than our families
18:18do getting on and off planes and festivals and here and there and the other thing.
18:23And this generation doesn't understand that.
18:25Yeah.
18:26And not only that is once you're there, how do you make yourself known without being obnoxious
18:33or without being in the wrong space?
18:35Yeah.
18:36It's how to behave and how to, how to make yourself.
18:40So there's nothing better than a human connection, which is why in terms of AI, cause I know it's
18:45such a hot topic and it's such a, an important topic as we move into the future, you can't
18:52replace community.
18:54You can't replace that connection, which is why I always tell people the guidance is pick
19:00up the phone.
19:01It might be antiquated to a lot of you, but really like when you're asking for something,
19:06it comes off so much more compassionate if you really believe and you're talking to them
19:11and they can hear you and you have that connection.
19:14When you're trying, it's an artist's career.
19:16It shouldn't be done only by digital work.
19:20Yeah.
19:21It's harder.
19:22You should get on the phone and say, I, oh my God, I saw the show last night.
19:25You have no idea what it was like.
19:27I mean, you have to be moved by what you do.
19:30And if you're not, you shouldn't be doing what you're doing.
19:34What are you doing?
19:35But it's also harder to say no on the phone than it is no in an email.
19:39Yeah.
19:40Right.
19:41Try telling me no on the phone.
19:42Good luck.
19:43Well, just all of it.
19:44Like, even if you fuck up.
19:45Right.
19:46And you're like, oh, that radius closed.
19:47I might've breached it.
19:48Like, can you please let me, you know, like all of that stuff.
19:51It just comes off.
19:53Different.
19:54Different.
19:55Yeah.
19:56It's so hard to explain that pick up the phone.
19:59Like the notion of I emailed you, especially with me, doesn't register because I'm the
20:04worst at it.
20:05Sorry if I haven't responded.
20:07So are there aspects of your work that AI can help expedite?
20:12I think the algorithms, the chart metrics of it all, the routing, the venues, the data
20:18is so important.
20:19And that is going to be something that's going to free, I think, so many of us up on the business
20:24side, which will then give us more time to go and be on planes and make more phone calls.
20:30But also, it's so important if you have the relationships with your artists.
20:34There are so many times that my artists tell me, I hated that venue.
20:38I never want to go back there.
20:40Or I love that venue.
20:41I do want to go back there.
20:43And if you're routing a tour on AI, you're not going to be able to decipher which is favorites,
20:50which is the, we're in a personal service business and it should stay that way for a certain
20:57extent.
20:58But AI only knows what you tell it, right?
21:01Yeah.
21:02It is only going to talk to you in a certain way that you tell it.
21:04It's biased in the way that you train it.
21:06And so, sure, it might be able to say, what's the weather outlook, generally speaking, from
21:10the farmer's almanac if I'm going to go plan this outdoor run?
21:13And, you know, great.
21:14You can get that kind of granular data that's really easy to access.
21:17But to Marcia's point, you can't replicate human energy.
21:21You can't replicate the human experience.
21:23And to be able to have, we all have guts, right?
21:26And we listen to them in various ways.
21:28Why wouldn't we listen to them in this job?
21:31The AI is only going to, again, it's only going to draw from what you tell it that you
21:35do and don't like.
21:36But I think the space where it works is the admin we all have to do.
21:43The taking data from one place to another.
21:46It's in my email, it needs to be in the grid.
21:48It's in my email, it needs to be transferred to the RA.
21:51It's in my email.
21:52Like, those kinds of opportunities were not there.
21:56But that is where it will afford us all the ability to do more personally, is if we can
22:04get away from those emails and the systems we have to live in.
22:10Some artists decide they don't need agents and they just make a direct deal with a promoter.
22:19What's your argument or what's your pitch for why they might still need an agent?
22:24It's their loss.
22:25Right.
22:26What do you do for them?
22:27I mean, listen, some people are just in it for the bag, right?
22:29So if you're an artist and you don't know any better or your team doesn't, you know,
22:35it's an easy, it's turnkey.
22:37There's no, it's very transactional.
22:39And I think for, I know for Marsha, Marsha and I anyways, for you, you know, we're very,
22:45we're not transactional.
22:46We're humans and we like to actually interact and be in that room to brainstorm and to look
22:52out for the artists.
22:53Because, you know, I mean, I don't, there's no reason to get up here and say anything negative.
22:58But there's just more to it than just 30 cities on an arena tour.
23:02We do more.
23:03We do more than just the eye.
23:04It meets the eye.
23:05We're supportive.
23:06We've been part of the career build in most cases.
23:10Yeah.
23:11What are some of those things you're doing behind the scenes that's more than the thing?
23:14Well, there's a lot of brand partnerships, you know, that play so importantly into helping
23:19offset a tour.
23:20But also deciding, guiding on scaling.
23:22That's right.
23:23Guiding on scaling, on venue sizes.
23:27You know, a promoter sees things one way and an agency sees something differently.
23:34And it isn't just on how much money you could grab on each show.
23:38And there's guidance.
23:41That's the word.
23:42I think it also just, I think a way to just sum it all up is it's all about the long game.
23:48Yeah.
23:49You know?
23:50So I feel like the long game is where it's at for me anyways and how I've built my career
23:54and Marsha and Elisa.
23:55Like all of us.
23:56And I just feel like the bags are easy because they're going to be there.
24:00If you're, if you have songs, they're going to be there.
24:02It's when you don't have the songs or when you don't have that trajectory going upward where
24:09you need that support and help.
24:11And I think that's where people fall short sometimes.
24:14Everyone's going to answer the call when it's going well.
24:17Right.
24:18Who's going to answer the phone call when it's not going well?
24:20I do.
24:21You know, I can tell you.
24:22Right.
24:23But I think that, you know, from Marsha's point, I think that when you are invested in
24:26your client's life and their families and their career and what's important to them,
24:31and you are an arm to allow them and help them grow, I think that, you know, any, again,
24:36any promoter is going to answer the call when there's a big bag and everyone's got stars
24:39in their eyes.
24:40But if something's not going well, one of us is going to pick up that call and walk you
24:44through that and have that conversation.
24:46But there are also career artists that things change over each tour, whether they're, you
24:55know, the demand for them is greater or not greater, and it's how and where to put them
25:01so that there's a place to come back the next time around.
25:04And it's not just over at that tour because they did poorly.
25:08Because the first thing a promoter wants to say is we lost money last time.
25:13So how do you prevent that from happening?
25:15So there is a next time.
25:17And those are the things that we do that are really important.
25:21We also provide, at a lot of turns, agnostic solutions to desires and problems or challenges,
25:31if you will.
25:32Like Jenna was saying, having a certain amount of knowledge about who's doing what so that
25:37when we come back to the client and say, listen, we have no skin in the game on any of these,
25:44but here's what we know from all of them.
25:46And I don't just mean promoters.
25:47I mean the other stuff that they're doing on the back end that's developing their career,
25:51that's making their lives easier.
25:53We're having those conversations versus a promoter who has very specific partnerships and they want to fulfill those,
26:01which we all do in different ways.
26:03But we provide agnostic solutions in a lot of the questions.
26:06Yeah.
26:07And when it comes to the services that you offer besides booking, which are many,
26:11what would you say is the most valuable or in-demand non-booking service right now?
26:16Clearly tour marketing.
26:17Tour marketing.
26:18We love our tour marketers.
26:21I think it's brand partnerships.
26:23I think that's another revenue stream that when paired thoughtfully, which by the way,
26:29AI is not really going to do because you have to know the market and what's important to your client.
26:33And I think if they have dreams beyond touring or any sort of brand partnership,
26:38if they want to get into a movie, they want to have a clothing line,
26:41they want to do all of these different tentacles that our agencies offer,
26:45that's a really important avenue for them because contrary to popular belief,
26:49it's not always an incoming call for them, which I think is also important that you can communicate
26:54to your client of, you know, we are actually out there and soliciting these ideas for you
26:59and flipping things from other clients that it might not be right for them,
27:02but we had a conversation with someone and they thought, man, that's exactly right for you.
27:06And that turns into a bigger opportunity for that client.
27:09I've just been lucky enough to work with artists that are multi-hyphenates across the board.
27:14So, you know, I've seen the successes of the Doja Cats and the Charlie XCX, you know, three movies,
27:22the momentum coming out in January.
27:24I mean, there's so much across the board that I've been lucky enough to be across Jennifer Lopez
27:29and the six-year coach deal that I was behind.
27:32So I just feel like the skill set is so, I think it's needed to actually work and represent the future artists
27:41because I think they're all going to play in these spaces.
27:43They need to play in these spaces.
27:45And it's just exciting to be a part of.
27:47How closely are you working with executives on the label and publishing side?
27:53I signed Megan Maroney because her longtime friend of mine in publishing was the one who kind of brought her to town
28:04and made sure that she wasn't going to get into a, you know, shady deal and kind of protected her.
28:09And so when I was 19 and moved to Nashville, the first thing I did was went to the Songwriters Festival
28:13and befriended all of the A&R people and the publishing people because there's a saying in Nashville,
28:18it all begins with a song.
28:20And so if you have the song and you have the connection to those who create the songs
28:24and know who's cutting what, when the albums are coming out, what's popping,
28:28then that's a direct line for us to start, you know, our pursuit of that client
28:34or even finding ways that we can help them unofficially before they become a client.
28:38I miss not having the record company meetings and the connections as much as we used to.
28:46We used to go to A&R meetings, we used to go to artist development meetings.
28:51Why did that stop?
28:52Well, a lot of those departments don't exist anymore.
28:55Right.
28:56AI.
28:57Well, even before...
28:58And to me, like I do talk to, like some of my best friends are in publishing and at the label
29:03and we do actually collaborate.
29:05I was just on the phone with somebody before walking into this room about a new artist needing a manager
29:10and putting lists together and tracking and charting the Olivia Dean global of it all.
29:16And so I actually feel like we don't have those A&R meetings anymore,
29:21but I think it's just an involvement of how we utilize these relationships.
29:25Because to me, they're invaluable.
29:27To me, they're my closest friends.
29:29Well, I think there's more on the West Coast.
29:31Aside from you.
29:32I think there's more on the West Coast than the East Coast.
29:34Yes, that is true too.
29:37With dynamic pricing allowing artists to gross a lot more with their own headline tours
29:44and niche audiences becoming bigger and more important, how important are festivals now
29:50compared to how important it was to play them in the past?
29:54You probably have a good insight on that.
29:56I think festivals are really important.
29:59Why?
30:00I just think that for the overall artists, it gives them a chance to probably play to more people than they will.
30:07But that's not every artist.
30:09I mean, you can reach a certain point, and we see more stadium shows than ever,
30:14for artists that have been the festival headliners and have grown to stadium acts.
30:20But for the act that's not quite the stadium act, I think a festival has really, really benefited artists from people seeing them that normally wouldn't have.
30:32And I think festivals are still selling.
30:34I mean, look at Coachella selling out in advance two weekends.
30:39I mean, that was, you know, a new eye-opener that it's still happening, you know, when everybody was saying the festivals were off.
30:46There's always going to be haters, and so festivals that actually have, I think, the ecosystem to actually see and curate correctly will always win.
30:56But I think the bigger challenge moving forward are headliners, like festival headliners.
31:02We haven't developed those for headliners yet.
31:06They just, because of, and it goes back to grabbing that quick bag and not doing the work.
31:13Hmm.
31:14The TikTok era of it all.
31:16They've gone too fast.
31:17It's gone too fast.
31:18They want to take all the money off the table.
31:20Young managers don't know any better, so they want to take the commissions off the table.
31:25So they're not looking past three years, two years from now.
31:29Or building.
31:30Right.
31:31The world is.
31:32Do you know?
31:33I mean, Marsha's had Neil Young since, you know, he was born.
31:35Do you know?
31:36I think in the country space we are seeing a little bit of a shift because I think country by and large is the lagging genre, right?
31:46We don't...
31:47Yeah, but when you see Luke Holmes headlining Lollapalooza.
31:51Right.
31:52How crazy is that?
31:53And that was a push, I think, strategically on our part where, you know, the pitch is, it's not necessarily you're just listening to the country station or the rock station or the top 40 station.
32:02These are playlist generations, right?
32:04You can have a hip hop song next to a rock song next to a country song and those fans do cross over.
32:10And so I think for country we've seen a really, we've done a really good job at least in our country centric festivals at really starting to change those over.
32:18And at the end of the day, whether it's a Coachella or a Lala, there's a little bit of a built in crowd there.
32:23You're going to go because you love the experience.
32:25You know what it's about.
32:26You know what you're going to get.
32:28And so there is a risk for the promoter a little bit or the buyer to program some things that maybe are a little differently and they'll strike gold every once in a while.
32:37I also think these niche festivals are becoming more and more successful and more needed.
32:44And I think that like the Portolas of the world who focus in on dance or the three points, you know, there's, there's a few of them that are really impactful.
32:53And those are also festivals to be really taken seriously as well.
32:58Yeah.
32:59How are tour deals changing?
33:01You guys are doing all the deals.
33:02What are you seeing in terms of trends or new, new clauses?
33:07Global.
33:08Global.
33:09Yeah.
33:10I mean, everything's coming in as global tour deals now.
33:12And that's good for artists, I assume.
33:14Yeah.
33:15And a lot of it.
33:16Except for when they cross them.
33:17Yeah.
33:18Right.
33:19Uncross your deals.
33:20The cross and also the dictating the venues, whether it be amps or, you know, arenas and things.
33:27Are you seeing that more that the venues are being dictated?
33:30Yeah.
33:31Well, not so much dictated, but negotiated.
33:33It also depends on how hot the artist is, let's be real.
33:36Yeah.
33:37Like if you're in demand, you'll be able to right your path.
33:40Right.
33:41Takes a minute.
33:42Takes a minute.
33:43Yeah.
33:44Than usual.
33:45Yeah.
33:46Um, Jenna and Sarah and Elisa, you guys are all from major agencies, but Marsha, you're
33:51at more of a boutique independent group.
33:54And I'm curious how you see the power dynamics of the agency business, um, changing.
34:01Is there still a role for boutique new indie agencies to play?
34:06There's always going to be a role for boutiques.
34:09And what, what's the role that they will play in the future?
34:13Do you think?
34:14If you got the act, you could be anywhere.
34:16Yeah.
34:17Yeah.
34:18I do think it comes down to the relationship you have with your, with your client.
34:23The great work can be done anywhere, whether you're at an independent or you're at one
34:26of the majors, whether you've hopped around, whether you haven't.
34:29I think it all depends on kind of, you know, who is your quarterback within that agency
34:34that's going to make sure that you get everything that you're looking for or can at least come
34:38back to you with a, with a reasonable explanation as to why it can't happen today.
34:42And also it's all about the individual agent or executive.
34:45You know, you might be more comfortable in a smaller boutique agency and that's great.
34:50Or you might want to go to a full service agency and see what that's like.
34:54There's no wrong or right answer.
34:56I think it's really upon the individual.
34:58Finding your people and finding your home.
35:00Yeah.
35:01I think it is.
35:02Any questions from the audience?
35:04Yes.
35:05Melinda.
35:06I didn't raise my hand, but I will.
35:08Lisa, can you, I feel like you got a little cut off.
35:12Can you talk about the changes you were seeing in country in terms of the festivals?
35:17Are you saying the festivals are being more adventurous and that's a great move?
35:21Yeah, I think they are.
35:22I think if you look at an event like Tortuga where, you know, I was a, I was a festival agent,
35:27you know, back when I had a territory.
35:29And so that is where I come from.
35:31But you are starting to see a little bit of a crossover where there's like a Venn diagram,
35:35right?
35:36And you start to realize that that middle section of the Venn diagram has expanded.
35:40And so you're seeing, and I think you're also seeing a lot of other genres.
35:45Country's hot right now.
35:46Everybody wants to make a country record.
35:48And so you're starting to see people that are maybe from different genres that are willing
35:52to take a little less of a guarantee to expose themselves to that audience.
35:56Because country by and large is one of the only formats that has recurrence at radio,
36:01where you'll hear a song from the nineties on today's station.
36:04And so I think that is just indicative of the genre's audience.
36:08But you are starting to see, you know, a few things, you know, pop over.
36:13Post Malone is a great example of somebody who kind of found his way into the genre authentically
36:19and brings a different audience, but also services the one that we already have.
36:24Any other questions?
36:26Yes.
36:27From the production design and the live design space, is there anything you want us to know,
36:32like as agents, about how we can support your goals a little bit better from a design perspective?
36:37Those budgets always inflate.
36:41Make it work for the money.
36:43Yeah, absolutely.
36:45It also takes a long time.
36:47Yeah.
36:48Yeah.
36:49Waiting for artwork.
36:50One more before we break.
36:52Yes.
36:53Can you tell us more about micro-residencies?
36:55The micro-residency is, you know, like Charlie did it last year.
37:00You know, she took six markets.
37:01We did four Brooklyns.
37:02Instead of going Brooklyn, Boston, you know, instead of like sort of going the East Coast,
37:07going down the Eastern Seaboard.
37:08So it's really picking cities and sort of marketing outward.
37:14And instead of you going to the people, the people come to you.
37:18Do you think that works at different levels too?
37:20Like you could do it at the club size or is that really limited to the arenas and amps?
37:25I think it depends on who the act is and if that's something they're willing to travel
37:30for.
37:31You know, I think, I think at a certain demographic that becomes the adventure.
37:36It is that we're going to go to this city.
37:38Now, obviously you then have to consider hotel rooms and flights or trains or however you're
37:42going to get there.
37:43But I think you, that's where you go into the data and you look at where are my fans coming
37:47from?
37:48If I have a show in Florida, how many external zip codes do we actually see that are attending?
37:54Well, thank you all so much for being here.
37:56Thank you all so much for being here.
38:00Thank you all.
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