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00:00We've got the USS Edson battleship in Bay City that is said to have a lot of activity and I can
00:05go on record to say that that's absolutely true. Wasn't quite prepared for that one.
00:11Haunted Michigan Terrifying Tales. Hey Steve, super cool of you to join us for Haunted Michigan
00:18here. A few years ago we talked about the Hell House and for anybody that hasn't experienced
00:23the Hell House thing, you should look that up on YouTube. It is just kind of, it's incredible.
00:27But we'll talk about some more haunted places in Michigan coming up here in a few. But first I
00:32want you to take a chance to talk about the haunting on Brockway Street 3 and that comes up on November
00:3829. Tell us all about that. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I've been doing a big red carpet premiere.
00:44I mean, Haunted Saginaw, we've been doing this since 2010 actually. So every year we do an investigation
00:51local to the area, primarily Saginaw County, but sometimes a little further out. And we do a big
00:57premiere of the investigation documentary at the Historic Temple Theater in Saginaw. It's a red
01:02carpet event. And so this will actually be the 13th red carpet premiere. Haunting on Brockway Street
01:09was an investigation that we did of an old mansion on Brockway Street in Saginaw. There's a lot of
01:16history. There's a lot of activity. And we went there and thought we had everything under control.
01:23People came back the second time, of course, Haunting on Brockway Street 2. Things were
01:29much worse, I guess you could say. There's really no mild way to put that. And we brought in a lot of
01:35people to help resolve this. And just when we thought everything was good, sure enough, something
01:42happens. A late night 911 phone call is made. We find out what's happening. We look at the security
01:49system. We realized that the cause of this 911 call was not human. And we really had no choice but to
01:57come back one last time. You know, that doesn't mean for sure it's going to be gone, but we can
02:03only allocate so much resource. I'll always be a part of this family in terms of going there to help
02:08out. But this will be the last actual film. And we threw everything we had at this.
02:13Now, you just said something interesting. So back when, you know, I mean, obviously,
02:18paranormal investigators have been around for a long time and whatnot. But you just said you
02:22looked up the security footage. Now, that hasn't been around a long time. So is that something that
02:26paranormal investigators use a lot nowadays? Yeah, man, you know what? You hit it right on the
02:31head. It's changed everything, right? Because, you know, you got to think, let's go back 20 years ago
02:36or whatever. In the 70s, you had parapsychologists and kind of the origins of the investigation
02:41process that we have today. And all you really had to go off of was testimony of the people,
02:47maybe a friend, a neighbor, a cousin who spent the night and saw this, heard that. And so you would
02:52have to go off of the word of the individuals and try to do your research that way. You know,
02:58is there any patterns to this? What are you seeing? Now, let me go in myself and investigate.
03:03But now, I mean, everybody at all times, boom, phone in their pocket, video, surveillance,
03:09doorbell cams, indoor security cam. I mean, it's crazy how much footage can exist today and how you
03:16can rule out things. Like in this case here, this 911 call that was made. I don't want to give away
03:22too much, right? But let's just say that there was an intrusion in the home. There was damage done
03:29to the home while somebody was there, terrified for their life and hiding. The police came, all of
03:35these things. And we were able to look even in their app because we came here immediately and see
03:41that the alarm didn't go off, that all the doors were locked, all the windows were secure, nothing
03:48was set off. But at the same time, there is all of this visible damage from what something did to the
03:56home and a door specifically trying to get into a room that this person was hiding in. So what do you
04:03say at that point, right? You have no entry actually to the home, but yet you have tangible evidence that
04:09something ripped a door off its hinges and actually even fractured the wood door. It's not a person
04:15because cameras show every angle of the house. Nobody entered the home and the alarm system was active,
04:21but yet this still took place. Is that one of those things when when crazy stuff starts happening in
04:26houses, you just set up cameras all over the place, just try to catch something? Well, yeah, I mean, number one,
04:31that's the best way to do it. Cause I mean, at the end of the day, it's, I, you know, it's kind of a
04:35weird comparison, but like you're going fishing, right? You're trying to catch a fish. You're going
04:39to be more likely if you've got 10 lines in the water, right? You know, at the end of the day,
04:44it's just a numbers game, but yeah, when possible running as many cameras as you can, it's going to
04:48increase your odds quite a bit. Now, real fast, I talked about the hell house earlier. And like I said,
04:53people can look it up on, uh, on YouTube. I think it's, it's, it's, you caught some very
04:58impressive things, uh, there. Obviously you're, you're probably there, you know, tens of hours of,
05:04of film, but then you compile it and it's like, there's some crazy stuff that went on there. Um,
05:09tell people a little bit about that house real fast. Sure. Uh, and actually several hundreds of
05:13hours. Um, yeah, it's that, that, that crazy. So wow. Where do you begin, right? With a case like
05:20this, you know, Dice road, first of all, Dice road is, is an infamous back road, um, in Michigan,
05:26Saginaw County, it's very rural community. And it's known for so many hauntings per capita. It's
05:32crazy, right? We've all heard the, the lore of Dice road. You know, there's the Dice road cemetery.
05:38People talk about, I personally won't go in there. Um, I don't want to disturb a cemetery. So haunted
05:44or not, that to me is off limits though. I wouldn't suggest anybody do that. Uh, but there's those
05:49claims, uh, certain parts of the road. There's a bridge that's said to be haunted. There's these rumors
05:54about a, a man named crazy Larry that comes back. There's a phantom car. They say that chases people.
06:00And I even know people that claim this happened, you know, cause to me, that's kind of a, kind of a
06:05wild belief, right? That there's a phantom car that appears out of nowhere, gets behind you, no
06:10headlights and runs you out. And I'm kind of like, yeah, well maybe that's a neighbor being protective
06:16or something, but this has been going on for like 45 years, these claims, you know, and I have
06:20personal friends that I believe that say this did happen to me. So, uh, let me get to the point
06:27though. There's all these rumors that have been going on for like 50, 60 years plus on Dice
06:33road, but none of them have ever been about the most infamous haunting that has ever happened
06:40on Dice road. Even I doing this for so many years right here in Saginaw County, I never knew
06:46about the hell house as we call it. And, um, essentially somebody approached me for about
06:53two years, you know, anonymously contacting me saying, I need to talk to you. I need to
06:59give you something. I won't tell you why. Or, you know, so of course I'm not going to go
07:03do that. Right. I'm not going to just meet a stranger. Um, and, uh, it was kind of a war
07:08of attrition. And finally I said, you know, they caught me on the right day and I'm like,
07:11okay, you know what? Meet me at this place in 35 minutes and park here. I gave them a criteria.
07:19And if you want to meet, this is the one and only time I'm going to do this. Let's do this.
07:24They showed up. They had a huge box. They gave it to me, said a few things to me, left a phone
07:30number and me and the people I'm with take the box somewhere and we start rifling through it. And
07:36I'm thinking maybe this is really creative fiction. Maybe somebody has created this whole
07:42thing and it's kind of a, maybe they're going to write a book or something. I don't know.
07:45And I'm kind of like, can these police reports be real? I mean, some of the first ones I yanked
07:50out, they're state police reports. So Saginaw County Sheriff's department, I'm seeing things in there
07:55about the FAA. I'm seeing things about houses cracking and foundations and lie detectors. And I'm
08:02like, what in the hell is going on? So I just started doing some preliminary, relatively simple
08:07detective work, if you want to call it that. And I'm looking at all the police signatures and names
08:13and I'm writing them all down. And I start researching every one of these names. And sure
08:16enough, every one of these people during that time, you know, was a sergeant, a detective, a deputy,
08:22a trooper. And I started reaching out to these people. Within a day, I was getting responses.
08:27And most of them said, because my message to them is, hi, this is my, this is who I am. This is what
08:34I'm inquiring about. Does this address mean anything to you? And every one of them responded
08:39with things like, I always wondered when somebody would reach out to me about this. And, and then my
08:45follow up to every one of them is before I ask you any more questions, is this true? Every one of them
08:52said, yes. Every one of them, you know, and, and, and for people saying, okay, well, what is this?
08:59Um, in the 1970s, there was a family that had lived in a house for over 10 years that they built
09:05themselves, never had a problem, no issues whatsoever. And on one night, their life changes
09:13forever. In a sense that every single day for over half a year, they're being tormented by broken
09:20windows, pounding on their house fires, um, what sounds like explosions. And that is just really
09:28the tip of the iceberg. Now, it was fascinating. Like I said, I'll link some of the stories in our
09:33last conversation, uh, in the description of this, uh, so that people can see it. Uh, but you just
09:39mentioned you don't go into cemeteries. That's just kind of a, an unwritten rule you have.
09:43I mean, you know, for, for me, it is, I mean, don't get me wrong. I've done it in different
09:48locations. You know, when you're talking about a cemetery, that's from the late 1700s, early
09:541800s, it's not really active anymore. And if it's part of a certain case that I'm doing,
09:59uh, for some reason, I will go into a cemetery, but like with Dice road, you know, these are,
10:05well, every, it doesn't matter when a person passes away, right? 1800s, whatever, either way,
10:10it's like, you're, I don't want to go in there and disturb that unless you really need to for some
10:15reason, right? Because, you know, these are people's parents, descendants, grandparents,
10:20they're human beings. And I feel like going into a cemetery just for the sake of investigating and
10:27trying to capture evidence, we have a billion places we could do that. I don't think we need
10:33to do it there. That's just my opinion anyway. Now, what are some other places in and around
10:37Michigan that you found just a lot of activity? Give me some stories about some of the stuff that
10:42you've seen and witnessed, man. I mean, where do you begin? Right. I mean, Michigan, we have so much
10:48lore, you know, uh, we, we really are rich in, in lore and hauntings and, you know, rather it be,
10:56uh, specific lighthouses in the area, like the old show lighthouse. I think that's 20 miles out in
11:02the water in Lake Michigan, um, talks about apparitions, uh, poltergeist type activity, um,
11:08even elemental type things, you know, I mean, we have the Michigan dog, man, which I don't want to
11:13say too much about, but you're going to, you're going to be hearing about that from me quite a bit,
11:18um, in the very near future. Uh, we've got the USS Edson battleship in Bay city, uh, that is said to
11:25have a lot of activity and I can go on record to say that that's absolutely true. I spent a few months
11:31on that ship investigating it. And, uh, wow. You know, I wasn't, wasn't quite prepared for that one.
11:39Um, all over the Southwest part of the state. I mean, there's so many different locations, you know,
11:46that we have, and there's a lot of different theories too. I mean, some people kind of say
11:50that there is a correlation between running water or bodies of water being kind of a conduit of
11:56different energies. I mean, we are surrounded by the great lakes, um, as well. I mean, does that
12:01play a part in it? You know, I'm open to the idea, but I can't say that's a hundred percent the case,
12:06but, um, and then you look at Mackinac, you know, Mackinac Island is said to be a very haunted
12:11location. You know, there's a lot of interesting things that have taken place there and different
12:14battles. Um, people are still finding bones and things like that to this day. Um, unfortunately,
12:21sometimes burial grounds get disturbed, you know, and that's always a catalyst for
12:25activity as well. Like in Saginaw, Michigan on Hamilton street. Uh, that was one of the first
12:30two films that I did independently. And one of the things that we looked at with a specific location
12:35was when they were widening the street right in front of this business, they unearthed a bunch of,
12:41uh, remains of native Americans accidentally, but, you know, even though it was accidental,
12:47it's still a disturbance, you know, and that could very well be, you know, uh, the cause of that.
12:52And of course we're rich in that history as well. So Michigan is definitely, if you want to say a
12:58hotspot, I think we definitely rank up there pretty high. Now you mentioned that the, the, uh, the dog
13:03man. So we're without giving too much away, what location are we talking about in Michigan?
13:08Well, the dog man, you know, there's been sightings all over the state. I mean, primarily to me,
13:14it seems that the, the hotspot is going to be Northern Michigan. Um, and that, you know,
13:19kind of, uh, above mid Michigan, you know, kind of Crawford County, Roscommon County,
13:23even up in the Traverse city region. And of course, you know, even further, even into the upper
13:28peninsula. And that's not something that would normally be in my wheelhouse. Right. But all I'm
13:36going to say is that, um, you know, when I was much younger, there was a strange incident that I
13:42observed, you know, that I've kind of always kept to myself and the very few people that were present,
13:47because it's one of those things where you don't really know what to say, you know, like, I mean,
13:53you know, people will kind of say, well, you know, black bears can have a, you know, but you know,
13:58the difference between a black bear and something, I'll just leave it at that. There's a lot,
14:03there's a lot to be said there and a lot that's going to be said about that, but it does make you
14:08wonder, you know, what, what that phenomenon is, um, how there's been sightings for how, you know,
14:14for how many decades and in fact, centuries, you know, and recorded documents in the area.
14:19And it always kind of makes you wonder, you know, what could these things be, uh, that are being
14:23seen by thousands of Michigan residents over a very long period of time? What is the truth in that?
14:30And that's not something that's paranormal. That's something that people witness, correct?
14:34Yeah. Yeah. And then I guess by definition, you know, the word paranormal,
14:37I guess can be summed up as something that can't be scientifically explained. So, I mean,
14:42I guess there's, you know, maybe to us, there's phenomenon taking place today that we are all
14:48saying, Oh my God, that's, you know, that's paranormal activity. Yes. Maybe in 400 years,
14:53there'll be an explanation for some of the things that we encounter that we look at as supernatural,
14:59if that makes sense. Now you mentioned the, um, the, the, the battleship there in Saginaw. I've
15:04talked to some other people about that as well. You said you spent months there, huh? So what kind of
15:08things you see there? A couple of months. In fact, I'll drop it here with you.
15:12That is going to be my next film is a haunting on the Saginaw river, the gray ghost. That will be
15:18the next haunted Saginaw documentary to follow from Brockway three. Um, so we were brought there
15:23by some people that, you know, that knew there was a lot of activity that knew me asked if I would be
15:28interested. We had to go in front of a board of people that, you know, that, that controlled the
15:32ship and its integrity and all of those things. And they voted to allow me to do it. And so we spent
15:39about, I think maybe about six to seven weeks on the ship, um, all night long, every single night,
15:45night after night. Um, number one, I will tell you in the dead of summer, that thing is very hot.
15:51Even late at night when it's cool and breezy, you are in a steel oven cage, man. It was brutal. Not to
15:59mention, you know, those doors you walk through for flooding purposes, they go up a couple of feet and
16:05you can imagine how many, um, shin bruises and fractures that we occurred, you know, during that
16:11time when you're walking around the dark full speed thing, you know, and I could go on with that,
16:17but active 1000%. In fact, whatever expectation I was hoping that might be the case was a thousand
16:26times above that, you know, to the point where we would just kept coming back every night that we could,
16:32because it seemed like the longer we were investigating it, the higher the activity we
16:37were catching, you know? So we stayed as long as we were basically allowed to stay.
16:41I was going to say, do, do the, do these spirits or apparitions kind of get used to you being there
16:47or maybe open up a little bit more if you're there night after night?
16:51Yes. I believe that's the case. I believe that in some cases, exactly what you said, you know,
16:55they get used to you more and they're, uh, they're more likely to interact or communicate.
16:59And if they don't want you there, they're also more likely to show you that as time goes by,
17:04right. Um, depending on what you are dealing with, you know, and then on that ship, there was, um,
17:10there was a lot of activity and there was some very specific individuals we were trying to
17:16communicate to where people that run the ship and, you know, and it's history, they, there was a
17:21death on the ship. There was, well, there was more than one death on the ship, but there are certain
17:25spirits that they knew had been there and that do reside there. And so that was kind of our main
17:31goal was to communicate with them, see if, you know, we could offer any kind of, I guess, peace
17:36in some kind of sense, you know, do they want to be there? Do they not want to be there? Uh, why are
17:41some of these things happening? Let's see if we can kind of dive in and, and find out. But, um,
17:46we took it very seriously. I mean, we do with every investigation, but
17:49in this case, you know, you're talking about, you know, veterans, you're talking about, you know,
17:55a ship that was used in war. You're talking about our, our heroes basically. Right. So we wanted to
18:00be very, very, very respectful, um, in every way that we could from how we entered the ship, how we
18:07spoke, um, what questions we asked and what we did. And, uh, speaking of, uh, ships, have you ever done
18:13any investigations up? It was that white fish point where the, uh, where the, the, the shipwreck museum is.
18:19Have you ever done anything like that as far as ships that have gone down and like Lake Superior
18:22or whatnot or whatnot? No, I have not. I'm super interested in that in a lot of ways,
18:26but have I actually investigated that? No. Okay. And then you just mentioned a war down here.
18:31And, uh, you know, uh, outside of Detroit, there's Monroe, Michigan, where there was a,
18:35there's battlefields and stuff. Have you ever done anything down there? Um, no, I've been down there
18:39and I'm kind of a, kind of a nerd like that, that I like to go to things like that and check things
18:44out and kind of walk around and read all the pamphlets and everything, but I haven't investigated
18:48there, you know, in a official capacity now. Yeah. So what, uh, what else do you have coming
18:53up besides what you were just talking about? Is there anything else that you can plug?
18:57Yeah, sure. Well, um, you know, we just finished season eight of paranormal caught on camera and I
19:02think that just finished, um, airing and now we're already on the season nine and that's been pretty
19:07fun. I, they, I came on season six and this will be my, uh, my ninth season with them. Of course,
19:14that's, you know, on the travel channel, but I think you can find that also on max and discovery
19:18plus, um, as well. So kind of working on that. Um, of course, Brockway three about to come up,
19:24you know, again, November 29th at the temple theater in Saginaw. And even on my own, uh,
19:30through Patreon, I have a Patreon, just Patreon slash Steve Shippey. Um, I release an exclusive
19:35investigation every single month. So actually now I think there's like 125 investigations
19:43that nobody has ever seen because I've been on there for five years. So these investigations just
19:49locally or all across the country? Um, well, these ones specifically are more in the Saginaw
19:54County region. Um, but you know, but that won't, you know, that's not to say that we won't go
19:59further with that. It's hard, man, because, you know, we get so many amazing offers to come out
20:05and investigate places far away that are really, really interesting, but we have so many cases here
20:11in our area and we kind of feel, I don't want to say obligated, but you know, this is our area
20:17and this is where we started haunted Saginaw. So I guess for me personally, those cases will always
20:23kind of have a priority. Yeah. Have you, have you done anything outside of Michigan? Like,
20:28like the Sally house and some of the more, more famous ones? Yeah. Yeah. You've been at the Sally
20:33house. I have. Yeah. In fact, um, you know, of course I have, um, my own, I had my own series
20:37on the travel channel called haunting in the heartland. Um, and that's also, you can find
20:42that on max and, and, uh, I think Amazon prime and other places. And that was one of the episodes
20:47that we did. We went to Atchison and we did the Sally house. Wow. I'm going to have to set my DVR
20:53up to, to catch all your shows and do all your stuff. Cause that's, and that's another thing that's
20:58so complicated for me, man, is cause I feel like I have split audiences in a sense, you know, like I'll
21:03have, I have the haunted Saginaw audience that a lot of the times really have no idea that I'm also
21:10doing stuff with the travel channel and the network. And then I had people that are, you know,
21:14supporters from that, that have no idea that haunted Saginaw exists. So it's kind of like,
21:19you know, and then you, you asked me about music earlier. So then there's also that that's over here
21:24somewhere and it's just kind of, it's a weird place to be. And I just try my best to accommodate
21:30them as much as to navigate everything. That's all I can do. Yeah. So, so how, how often do people
21:35reach out to you to investigate places in Saginaw or anywhere? Quite a bit. Um, I would say we usually
21:42get about a hundred to 150 requests a year. And out of that 150, I would say 50 or 60 seem relatively
21:54urgent, you know, and then we kind of whittle that down to about 10, you know, by kind of a vetting
22:00process of reaching back out to the people, asking a bunch of questions, because I kind of look at it
22:05like the quickest way to do that is communicate your, your brains off to somebody, you know, really
22:10give them homework, um, ask them for certain things, you know, because the more you do that,
22:15if they aren't really willing to reciprocate that energy back, then you need to give it to the people that
22:21really seem like, Hey, this is a problem. It's really affecting our lives. We need the help.
22:27And once we can narrow it down to that, we'll jump on the cases that we know we can handle.
22:32And even if there's some that we're kind of like, man, how do you make a decision here?
22:36We will bring somebody else to help them, or we will investigate it, but just not put it on film
22:41because we do a lot of that too. And people don't know about those cases because they're not public.
22:46Yeah. Is there, do you ever get into a situation where you're like, this is kind of too crazy for me?
22:54Yes.
22:56So, so give us an example of that, man. I mean, yeah, God, there's, you know, there's some I would
23:02love to, but probably shouldn't. But I mean, we've had cases where the activity was so wild and the
23:10people were wilder than the activity, you know what I mean? And it's, it's just so intense and so
23:15much to try to handle that. You just do the best you can, you know, and then at the end of it,
23:21you're kind of like, well, you know, we did everything we can. And, you know, here's some
23:25names and numbers of other people that might be able to come in and assist you or whatever,
23:31because it's just, um, you know, yeah, there's just a few cases that come to mind. I'll give you a
23:36little bit, you know, there's, there's one where we kept going to this location, you know, and meeting
23:41with the people and building a rapport and thinking that we were all on this level and the activity is
23:46just insane. And we're doing all these things and it gets worse. And then we come back and we come
23:52back and we come back. And then finally, one of them says, well, you know, I'm wondering if, you
23:58know, some of the summoning rituals I'm doing are bringing in the wrong things. And we're like,
24:03wait, you know, and they're like, well, yeah, no, I mean, here, you know, hear me out. And then
24:08they just kind of like, take us to this room and they open it up and there's like, just, it's like
24:12a ritual room. And I'm like, look, I'm, I don't think I can help you at this point. I don't know
24:17what you're doing. I don't know what this is. I don't know what you're bringing in, what you want
24:21to come in, what's coming in that shouldn't come in, but you know, this might be why you're having all
24:27this go on, you know, and that's, that's on you, I guess it's up to you whether or not you want to
24:33do this, but you're creating more of a storm. Every time we come back, we're trying to mop up
24:40the storm water and sure up the house. And then you're just bringing it back over and over again.
24:45So I think this is a endless cycle that we can't get out of, you know? Yeah, that's crazy. Hey,
24:50when you say activity, by the way, do you mean with, with your devices or do your things thrown
24:56around the room or both or what? Yeah, that, that means everything, you know, you know, I mean,
25:01activity to me that that's affecting people in a home that that's important to us, right? I mean,
25:06number one, we hate seeing it happen, but it does, you know, scratches and being pushed and, you know,
25:11the physical attack kind of scenarios. And other than that, you know, sometimes you have kind of a
25:16poltergeist style activity, doors slamming all night long, things being thrown, coming home and
25:22finding your house a mess, you know, and things of that nature. Those are very nuisance style
25:28disturbances, you know, that scare the heck out of people. And, you know, you got to think about
25:33it too, man. Like when it's your home, that's like the one place that you're, you should feel
25:39comfortable. You know, it's like, that's kind of like your haven, right? You know, and when people
25:43are afraid to be home, that's when a lot of bad things start, you know, that, that kind of stress
25:49on people because really, man, it's a thing, you know, it really is. I mean, I always kind of say
25:53to people, different things that exist in life, you know, there's therapy for, you know, you go to a,
26:00you go to a therapist or whatever, and you say, you know, I went through this divorce or this breakup
26:05or this death in my family. Or even people that are out there like, oh, I'm just, I'm trying to quit
26:10smoking and all these things. And there's therapy for that. Imagine if you yourself were terrified to go
26:16home. If you were afraid to sleep at night, if you were afraid for yourself and maybe your kids,
26:21your family, what, what kind of toll does that take on people? Yeah. I mean, really, you know,
26:28and, and you've been, you've been kicked and scratched yourself. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um,
26:34I just watched, uh, the, um, the latest Conjury movie. Are you familiar with the, uh, Smurl House?
26:40Yes. All right. What, what, what are your thoughts on, on something like that?
26:43I mean, you know, I think of course, you know, when it comes to Hollywood movies, there's always,
26:49you know, there's going to be some creative licensing. That's just, you know, fact, but I
26:53mean, the, you know, the Smurl case was a shocking, uh, case of the Warrens. I mean,
26:58it really was. I mean, that was a very shocking, very famous case. I saw the film myself, actually,
27:03uh, not that long ago. I went to the theater and saw that and, uh, you know, definitely thought it
27:08was a good film. Um, there, there were a lot of accurate things in that film, you know, again,
27:13some obviously licensed, but a lot of accurate things. Um, yeah, you know, the Warrens, of
27:19course, they seem to chase after, uh, some of the worst cases because that's just what
27:24they did. You know, they went after, uh, cases that most people wouldn't touch, including
27:29yourself.
27:32I'm dumb enough to have done it, you know, at the end of the day, it's just one of those
27:37things where, you know, you're kind of like, nah, I'm just gonna, okay, let's go. You know what I
27:41mean? Um, but you know, as time goes by, I will say those cases are becoming less appealing
27:46to me, you know, because I feel like, you know, you have to be, you have to be in the
27:53right place at all times to, you know, to really do cases like that. And, and, and you're playing
27:59around with a lot of things, you know, at that time, you know, you, you have to wrestle
28:03with your beliefs and theology, religion, and the people that are involved. And so I think
28:09that, you know, when people are dealing with something that they believe is truly an evil
28:13type of thing, um, it's always best. I think that they align themselves with people that
28:18share their religious views and bring in people that are considered clergy from that and, uh,
28:24that they kind of tackle it that way. Um, I don't think as paranormal investigators or
28:29as folks like to refer to as all blanketed as ghost hunters or whatever, I don't think
28:34we need to tromp around there and just ask a whole bunch of questions for the sake of
28:38catching something on video. Um, cases like that need to be, um, dealt with discreetly
28:45and, um, properly in my opinion. Yeah. Uh, are you a fan of the, uh, the Warrens? I've
28:50heard conflicting reports about, you know, them over the, over the years. Yeah. Me personally.
28:55Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm a fan of the Warrens, um, you know, for a lot of reasons, I think that
29:00they had very good intentions. Um, in fact, you know, I had this picture. It's, I just saw it
29:06the other day. It's on my Instagram. I'll never forget. I was trying to reach out to, uh, Lorraine
29:11Warren. I, this is a long time ago. I don't remember what year I want to say 15, 16, something
29:16like that. 14. I don't recall. And I was trying to reach out to her to interview her about
29:20something. And, um, she wasn't able to do it, but one day I'm sitting at my desk and the phone
29:26rings and the caller ID says Ed Warren. And of course, you know, Ed wasn't around anymore,
29:33but probably the phone was still in his name. So I literally, I had to, I had to grab my
29:38phone, take a picture of it while it was ringing, answer the call. And I believe it was Lorraine's
29:43nephew. I think that had answered it and basically just kind of relayed that, you know, she was
29:47flattered for the offer for the interview, but wasn't able to, I think she had issues at
29:52the time and stuff. And, but they, um, I guess to answer the question, sorry, I got in the
29:56weeds there. Um, I think that they were good people. I think they had really good intentions
30:00and, um, you know, sure. There's always going to be controversy. Um, but then again, if
30:06you, if you don't have any controversy, then you're not making any noise. Right. So, yeah.
30:12Well, I'll tell you what Steve, we'll wrap things up here. I really appreciate you taking
30:15the time and getting back with me to do this. Uh, of course, this is the season and, uh, we'll
30:20push everybody towards the, uh, towards your, your, your, your Saginaw, uh, the, the Brockway
30:25street three, uh, coming up on November 29th. Did I get all that right? I'm not sure. I'm just
30:30using my brain, which isn't very big. So yeah, no, that's all right. Yep. November
30:3629th, um, Saturday, right after Thanksgiving, it's a cool time, man. It's a, you know, it's,
30:41it's a really huge old historic theater and Saginaw. We're kind of lucky to have a venue
30:46like this for such a small city, you know, it holds 2000 people. Um, it's a lot like the
30:51Fox theater and just kind of how ornate it is. Okay. You know, it's a really beautiful
30:56place and you know, you can get drinks, you know, there's a full bar there. And so it's
31:00kind of, it's not just coming to watch a movie cause we go out on stage and we talk to everybody
31:05and kind of mingle with the crowd. So it really is more of an event than it is just kind of
31:10sitting down and watching a film. If that makes sense. I'll have to make the trek up there.
31:14I last time I was there, I think was to the, I don't know, was it the Dow event center,
31:17right? That's the concert venue up there. Yes. Yeah. I think that was the last time I was
31:21up in Saginaw and that was a couple of years ago for a, for a concert. Tobias? Uh, no,
31:26no. Yeah. Is that, is that your band? That's my band. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't get to see them last
31:32time they were here because I had a, another thing going on, but my, I love seeing those guys in
31:35concert. Yeah. Well, if you want to come up to the premiere, let me know, man. I'll get you and
31:39whoever you want. Um, get you guys up here, VIP and just check it out. It's a good time. Yeah. I'd love
31:45to. Well, Steve, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you.
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