- 3 months ago
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00:00Dimebag would have been awesome on TikTok, any of those things.
00:04He was kind of the original vlogger to begin with.
00:06My early bands, we all carried cameras around
00:09just because we wanted to be like Pantera.
00:12Rock, metal, frog, and everything in between.
00:15Welcome to this episode of Talkin' Rock with Meltdown.
00:19Don't forget to follow the audio-only Talkin' Rock podcast
00:22on all podcast platforms.
00:24And now, it's time for today's conversation.
00:27Here's Meltdown.
00:28How you doing, man?
00:29See ya.
00:29I'm doing well, man.
00:31Nice to see you.
00:32Have you had anybody interview you on your own podcast before?
00:35Ooh, on my own podcast?
00:37I don't.
00:39Well, yeah.
00:40Actually, yeah, because when I was doing NewPod for KnotFest,
00:44my co-host at the time interviewed me
00:48because of, obviously, the Primer 55 angle.
00:50So, yeah, in kind of a weird way, I think maybe once it's happened.
00:54That's right, yeah.
00:55So, yeah, I forgot all about that.
00:56So, yeah, you did the stuff for KnotFest,
00:58or KnotFest, and the artists just come over,
01:01did you know who you were interviewing beforehand?
01:04Yeah, even with that show and everything on KnotFest,
01:09I still booked myself.
01:10So, yeah, it was KnotFest by name,
01:14me by everything behind the scenes.
01:17Yeah, because I've been to places, like, you know,
01:19when it used to be Rock in the Range and whatnot.
01:21And sometimes, you know, you're like, they come up to you real fast.
01:24They go, hey, can you interview so-and-so?
01:26And you're like, oh, yeah, no, yeah, it's definitely been there.
01:28Yeah, and it's like, then you got to kind of start pulling stuff out of your ass.
01:31But how many episodes have you done of a Talk To Me?
01:33Um, roughly 500 and something.
01:38Like, I lost count a long time ago when I stopped, you know,
01:42I stopped a long time ago doing episode 381, blah, blah, blah.
01:46And I just started naming them, you know, whatever the guest was.
01:50And I think there's like 550-something uploads,
01:53but that's still like, you know, that's short stuff, that's specials,
01:56that's, you know, things here and there.
01:58So, yeah, about 550, I would say.
02:00Yeah, and I'll ask you the same questions everybody asks me.
02:03Who are the worst people interviewing?
02:06I get that all the time.
02:08You don't have to answer that question.
02:09I'm just teasing.
02:09No, I mean, you know, the only, you know,
02:11the only, like, real thing I've noticed over the years,
02:14and I'll keep it vague, but, like, the pros, pros,
02:18like, you know, if you have an interview set up with them at 2 o'clock,
02:22they show up at 2 o'clock, they give you a good 30 minutes,
02:25and they're gone, you know, or however long you have with them.
02:28They don't, they're not late.
02:29They're not yes, no, maybe, you know, giving short answers.
02:33They do try to tend to give good answers,
02:35and it's funny, like, the bigger the artist,
02:38be it a David Ellefson or somebody, you know,
02:40will come in, give you great conversation,
02:42and then get right out in their allotted time,
02:45and some of the younger bands kind of coming up,
02:47they're late, they forgot what time it was,
02:50they forgot this, can we reschedule, you know,
02:53and sometimes I look at it, I'm like,
02:55that's why you guys stay at that level.
02:56Like, you're just not a pro when it comes to even just stupid stuff
03:00like my podcast or whatever, you know,
03:02no matter who it was, Jason Newstead, boom,
03:04he popped up at whatever allotted time,
03:06he gave me an hour, at the end of the hour,
03:08he was like, thank you for your time, and he moved on.
03:10So, I mean, like, I think that's a lesson
03:13that maybe younger bands can learn,
03:15is be pro, have some good stories,
03:17have some good stories ready to go,
03:19even if the interviewer may or may not ask you about them,
03:22you know, weave them in, make it interesting,
03:24make it fun for everybody.
03:25Yeah, I find that some of the,
03:26you talk about some of the pros,
03:28some of the guys that have been around,
03:29like the Alice Coopers and the Gene Simmons,
03:31David Carvedales, even like Rob Helfords,
03:34you can ask them a question,
03:35and they may not answer the question,
03:37but they will give you an answer.
03:39Right.
03:40You know, and, you know, that's, you know,
03:42we met through David Elfson and whatnot,
03:44and it's funny interviewing him over the years,
03:46and that's how the David Elfson show came about,
03:48because I just, at the end of our interview,
03:50I'm like, dude, you need your own podcast.
03:52Right, right, he can talk.
03:53Yeah, I was like, you know, he's a great talker,
03:54he's a great storyteller.
03:55Every time he says anything, you know,
03:57he gets blabbermouth, he gets, you know,
03:59all the metal sites.
04:00I'm like, dude, you need those clicks for yourself.
04:02And he sat there for a second
04:03in a very David Elfson way and goes,
04:06all right, let's do this.
04:07And I was just like, all right,
04:08well, I guess I'm doing a podcast with David Elfson now.
04:10And I went upstairs, and my wife always asked me,
04:13she was like, how was the interview,
04:14even though she may or may not know who I'm interviewing.
04:16And I just kind of looked at her and I go,
04:18I think I have a podcast with David Elfson now.
04:20And, you know, and what's great is, you know,
04:23I kind of pitched him on an idea
04:24of kind of not what we're doing now,
04:27of like a 20 minute, you know,
04:28he could talk about whatever he's doing,
04:31bass story or Kings of Thrash,
04:33or, you know, plug the coffee or the basses or something.
04:36And then maybe do like a quick story
04:39about a certain Megadeth song or something.
04:41It was going to be quick, like 20 minutes.
04:43He could just call in from the road or wherever he was.
04:46And it immediately went to,
04:49hey, we should interview people,
04:50and we should do this, and we should do that.
04:52And, you know, hour episodes later,
04:54two hour episodes later,
04:55you know, he's fully invested in being a podcaster.
04:58It's a lot of fun, man.
04:59Yeah, and it's cool because he's only got 87 other things
05:02that he's doing.
05:03So, you know.
05:03Right.
05:05But it's great.
05:06But he makes time.
05:07You know, we've,
05:08I don't know if you've ever had a co-host
05:10or really dealt with that,
05:11but, you know, they can kind of be a pain in the butt,
05:13you know, trying to,
05:15hey, can you record on Tuesday night
05:16with this certain person?
05:18Oh, I've got soccer.
05:18You know, my kids have soccer.
05:20You know, just anything going on.
05:22You know, with David, he's like,
05:24you know, we've done episodes
05:25where like the guest is in California.
05:27I'm in, you know, the Southern Indiana,
05:30Louisville area.
05:31David's in Germany.
05:32It's just like, you know,
05:34and we're coordinating, you know,
05:37time zones across the world.
05:38And it's crazy how everything's
05:40kind of coming together with that.
05:41Yeah, no, it's good.
05:42We live in a different, you know, world.
05:44I'm a lot older than you.
05:46And when I started doing this,
05:47this business and stuff,
05:48it's like, first of all,
05:49I did interviews live on the air.
05:51I remember I interviewed Lars
05:52from Metallica live on the air one time.
05:55And that's another story for another time.
05:57But then, of course, it went to audio
05:58and now you got the video component
06:00and all this other stuff.
06:01But you know what?
06:02It's fun.
06:02And you get to reach out to people
06:04and in a weird way,
06:05you become part of the community
06:06that you wanted to be part of growing up.
06:10Now, I don't play a lick of an instrument,
06:11but I guess in some weird way,
06:13I'm a small part of the rock community,
06:15you know?
06:16Oh, yeah.
06:18It's been fun kind of just being
06:19on that side for so long
06:21because, you know, in all honesty,
06:22I never, ever thought that Primer 55
06:24would ever get back together.
06:26You know, obviously with our singer passing away
06:28and our guitar player had some health issues
06:30there for a little while.
06:31And so I was just like, you know,
06:33I'll probably never play live again
06:35in a band situation like that
06:38because, you know, I'm in my mid-40s now
06:40and I'm like,
06:41the thought of like starting a band right now
06:43sounds crazy.
06:46But, you know, I've done some stuff,
06:48you know, like jam nights
06:49and things like that.
06:50You know, I've gotten up and done those.
06:51And those do kind of, you know,
06:53scratch that itch to get on stage
06:55and play some songs
06:56and do some things here and there.
06:57But yeah, just getting back on stage
07:00after all these years is wild.
07:02But, you know, being, you know,
07:05in the metal media world,
07:07you know, you're on Blabbermouth constantly.
07:10I'm sure you've seen my stuff
07:11constantly on there too.
07:12You know, and it's like,
07:14and that's been kind of fun.
07:15And it's kind of hard
07:16to kind of compartmentalize.
07:18Like on this side,
07:20I'm a, you know, member of the media.
07:22And on this side,
07:23I'm a member of a band.
07:24And it's kind of wild
07:25to kind of live in both of those worlds
07:28and kind of, you know,
07:30now I kind of have to really worry
07:31about what I say or who I talk about
07:33because, you know,
07:33maybe we get offered a tour with those guys.
07:35And I have to like,
07:36and, you know, there's been a few,
07:37like they've talked about,
07:39you know, hey,
07:40what would you guys think
07:40about touring with this band?
07:41And I really have to rack my brain.
07:43And I'm like,
07:43have I ever talked, you know,
07:44bad about them on my podcast
07:46over the years?
07:47You know, like I have to really like think,
07:49I was like,
07:49do I need to go back and delete anything?
07:51So, so yeah, it's,
07:52it's been fun kind of,
07:53kind of being,
07:54being in both worlds
07:55and, you know,
07:56just kind of,
07:56kind of getting to be
07:58in the media world.
07:59Because I mean, as a kid,
08:01you know,
08:01I'm always going to be a fan.
08:02Like that's,
08:03I'm fan,
08:03I'm fan first.
08:04And then whatever comes after that's,
08:06it's gravy.
08:07So, you know,
08:08growing up reading metal,
08:09metal edge and metal maniacs
08:10and, you know,
08:11just reading anything
08:12I could get my hands on
08:13and then, you know,
08:14watching Headbangers Ball
08:15and, and just,
08:16just diving into all that stuff.
08:18And then now, you know,
08:19getting to interview Ricky Rackman,
08:21you know,
08:22some of those interviews,
08:23I know, you know,
08:24people love or hate Ricky Rackman,
08:25but I mean, to me,
08:26I mean, he was,
08:27I was 12, 13, 14
08:29when Headbangers,
08:30when he was on Headbangers Ball.
08:31So, like that was,
08:33like he was the coolest dude ever.
08:34So, you know,
08:35I know he,
08:35he downplays his mark
08:39in the,
08:39in the music world.
08:40But man, I mean,
08:41those, those,
08:41those Headbangers Balls
08:42were influential for me.
08:44You know, I mean,
08:45that's where I found out
08:45about Pantera.
08:46That's where I found out
08:47about a bunch of bands.
08:48So, so yeah,
08:49it's been,
08:49it's been cool to kind of
08:50be able to interview the heroes,
08:52you know,
08:53be it media,
08:53be it music and whatnot.
08:55So it's,
08:55it's been a fun time.
08:56Yeah, it's funny
08:57when I get a text message
08:58and it says like,
09:00do you want to interview
09:00Ellis Cooper?
09:01I'm like,
09:01is this even,
09:02is this a real question?
09:03Right.
09:05It's like,
09:05no, I'm going to pass.
09:06I'm going to pass.
09:07But,
09:07but no,
09:09it's,
09:09it's crazy.
09:10Like,
09:10like where,
09:11where my world is coming
09:12and yours as well.
09:13Hey,
09:13how'd the shows go so far
09:15that you guys have done?
09:16Dude,
09:16it honestly,
09:17it's been wild.
09:18Like I,
09:18I,
09:19I joined the band in 02.
09:21We did,
09:22you know,
09:22some good touring back then.
09:24We,
09:25well,
09:25it kind of like reformed
09:26in like 2007
09:27when they put out
09:28like a B-Sides record
09:29and like,
09:30nobody cared.
09:31Like nobody,
09:32like the shows were sparse
09:34and,
09:35and it was kind of,
09:35you know,
09:36just kind of at a downturn,
09:37you know,
09:37the,
09:38the nostalgia factor
09:40hadn't kicked in yet.
09:41You know,
09:42everybody kind of moved on
09:43to like metal core
09:43and things like that,
09:44you know,
09:45musically.
09:46Um,
09:47and so when it came time
09:49to do these shows,
09:52I,
09:52I had kind of been bugging
09:54our guitar player
09:55for a few years.
09:56I'm like,
09:57because I'm in it,
09:58I'm in it every day.
09:58I'm interviewing bands.
10:00So,
10:00you know,
10:00as soon as pre-interview,
10:02post-interview,
10:02they're always like,
10:03dude,
10:03I listened to Primer 55
10:04in middle school.
10:05And,
10:05you know,
10:06you're just kind of seeing
10:07that,
10:07that era of bands
10:08coming back around again.
10:10And then I start seeing,
10:11you know,
10:13Spine Shank
10:13and the Union Underground
10:14and Dry Kill Logic
10:15on Rockville
10:17and Louder Than Life.
10:18And I'm like,
10:18you know,
10:19I was like,
10:19Primer was right in all that.
10:20I was like,
10:21we should do something.
10:22Um,
10:23and then finally,
10:24but,
10:24you know,
10:24Bobby had some health stuff
10:25and he came out
10:26the other side with that
10:27and he was like,
10:28it was basically like,
10:29all right,
10:29man,
10:29let's do a show.
10:31And I was like,
10:32all right,
10:32well,
10:32if we do it,
10:33you know,
10:33I was like,
10:34let's find a booking agent
10:35and through the podcast
10:36and just through
10:37talking with people,
10:40I reached out
10:41to Mikey Doling of Snot
10:42and said,
10:43you know,
10:43Hayes,
10:44who's booking your shows
10:45because similar situation,
10:46uh,
10:47you know,
10:48a band of that era,
10:49Singers Pass Away,
10:50coming back around,
10:51you know,
10:51like there were a lot of
10:52kind of similarities
10:53to Snot and Primer 55
10:55and,
10:56uh,
10:56he hit me up
10:57with the booking agent.
10:58I kind of cold emailed him
10:59and said,
10:59hey,
11:00you know,
11:00would you want to book
11:01a Primer 55
11:0225th anniversary show
11:04of the first record?
11:06A,
11:06he might not know
11:07who we are
11:07or B,
11:08you know,
11:08uh,
11:09he might be into it
11:10and luckily it was B.
11:11So,
11:12A show turned into
11:13like eight shows
11:14in nine days,
11:15which turned into
11:16we're about to leave
11:17and go,
11:18uh,
11:19do a month
11:19with Smile Empty Soul,
11:21which,
11:21uh,
11:21which is going to be crazy.
11:23Uh,
11:23we just announced
11:24some December shows.
11:25um,
11:26we,
11:27the,
11:27the dates haven't been announced
11:28but a South America run
11:30with Il Nino
11:31and Head PE
11:31was just announced.
11:32We got announced
11:33for Welcome to Rockville.
11:34It's just like
11:34every day,
11:36like my email
11:37or my text messages
11:38or something
11:39is just blowing my mind.
11:41But,
11:41uh,
11:41and,
11:42and back to just
11:42the original,
11:43you know,
11:43the original first run
11:44of shows,
11:45we were kind of curious
11:47to see who would come
11:48out to these shows,
11:49what the reception
11:50would be like.
11:50and even down to
11:52when we were talking
11:53about merch,
11:54I was like,
11:55I was like,
11:55man,
11:55we're just going to need
11:56like large
11:56through like 4X t-shirts
11:58because,
11:59you know,
11:59everybody's older now.
12:01Everybody needs
12:01a bigger t-shirt
12:02and our,
12:03and,
12:03and Bobby was like,
12:04no man,
12:04let's get,
12:05you know,
12:05we need smalls
12:06and mediums
12:06and,
12:06you know,
12:07for the kids.
12:07And I'm like,
12:08there's not going to be
12:08any kids at these shows.
12:10And it was,
12:11it was 50-50.
12:12It was teenagers,
12:14people in middle school,
12:15high school.
12:16Like,
12:17it was the weirdest thing
12:17because you would walk out
12:18and there would be
12:20the whole front
12:21would be young kids
12:23singing deep cuts
12:25of the first record.
12:26And I'm like,
12:27I'm like,
12:27I want to stop the show
12:28and be like,
12:29how did you guys
12:29find this band?
12:31Like,
12:31what,
12:31what,
12:31what part of the internet
12:33are you guys on
12:34to find Primer 55
12:35in 2025?
12:37And,
12:38and,
12:38and,
12:39you know,
12:39when I was a kid,
12:40when I was 15,
12:4116 years old,
12:42you know,
12:43back to David Ellison,
12:44you know,
12:44I was,
12:44I was a,
12:45a kid that hung around
12:47the buses
12:47and waited all day
12:49and,
12:49you know,
12:49hours upon hours
12:51just to see
12:52like a glimpse
12:52of,
12:53of somebody cool.
12:54And,
12:55and like,
12:56I,
12:56I caught a few kids
12:58doing that,
12:59this run.
12:59Like,
13:00I walked out to go
13:01grab some food
13:02when we were in Texas
13:03and a couple kids
13:05standing outside
13:05and I could just see it
13:06on their faces.
13:07Like,
13:07they were pumped
13:08to see me
13:09and I was just like,
13:10what?
13:10So I stopped
13:11and I was like,
13:13well,
13:13like,
13:13I kind of like
13:14nodded at them
13:15and said hello
13:15and I kept walking
13:16and I'm like,
13:17dude,
13:17turn around
13:17and go talk
13:18to those kids
13:19and I got,
13:20you know,
13:20not that I was like
13:20big time,
13:21big timing them
13:22or anything.
13:22I just,
13:23I initiated the conversation
13:24and they were,
13:25you know,
13:2614,
13:2615 year old kids
13:27standing outside
13:28the venue
13:29hoping to get stuff
13:31signed
13:32and I was just like,
13:33you know,
13:33what world
13:34are we living in
13:35that,
13:35you know,
13:35people are pumped
13:37to see this band again?
13:39No,
13:39that's great,
13:40man.
13:40And the tour,
13:42like you mentioned,
13:42starts up again
13:43coming up Saturday
13:44at the Machine Shop,
13:45which is kind of insane
13:47to say,
13:48but it's my,
13:48that's my 30th anniversary
13:50at this radio station.
13:51Yeah,
13:51I saw that,
13:52man.
13:52That's wild.
13:53Insane,
13:53right?
13:54So,
13:54but anyways,
13:55then it's the second night
13:56you guys are going to be
13:57in Cadillac
13:57and of course,
13:58you're talking about Ellison.
13:59Are you going to go see
14:00the Kiss Monument
14:01at the school?
14:02Yeah,
14:02absolutely.
14:03As soon as I saw
14:04the tour dates,
14:04you know,
14:05come through,
14:05I saw Cadillac
14:06and I was like,
14:07well,
14:07I mean,
14:07I was like,
14:08I guess the football team's
14:09having a tough time
14:10and they need us
14:11to come up there
14:11and,
14:12you know,
14:12boost their spirits
14:14or whatnot,
14:15but yeah,
14:15man,
14:15I'll definitely,
14:16I'm a massive Kiss fan.
14:18One of the reasons
14:19I,
14:19you know,
14:19play any instrument
14:21is because of Ace Frehley,
14:22rest in peace.
14:23And yeah,
14:24so,
14:25so yeah,
14:25I will be,
14:26actually when I just saw
14:27Ellison a couple days ago
14:28and we talked about that,
14:29I was like,
14:29how far is the,
14:30you know,
14:31the Cadillac,
14:32you know,
14:33Memorial or whatever
14:34from the venue
14:35and he's like,
14:36dude,
14:36he's like five minutes.
14:37I was like,
14:37all right,
14:38I'm going.
14:39I've got to go to that.
14:40I may have to meet you guys
14:41up there because
14:42I was telling him
14:42that I was going to go up
14:43for the,
14:44all the anniversary stuff
14:45in the beginning of October
14:46and I had these computer issues
14:48and I couldn't bust out
14:49of my house early enough
14:50on that Saturday,
14:51but it's about a three hour
14:52drive from me.
14:52So if I can get my stuff done,
14:54I may have to make
14:55the trek up there
14:56because I've never been up
14:56there either to check it out.
14:58And of course,
14:59you know,
14:59at the passing of Ace,
15:00I saw David's picture.
15:01They got like flowers
15:02and stuff around
15:02that Memorial now too.
15:04So yeah,
15:06this whole,
15:06this again,
15:07you know,
15:08I said like,
15:08you know,
15:09this,
15:09this was supposed to be one show
15:10and now like I'm planning
15:12on going to Cadillac,
15:13Michigan to see the,
15:14you know,
15:1550th anniversary
15:16of them playing up there
15:18kind of memorials
15:19and things like that.
15:19So yeah,
15:20it's,
15:20it's definitely,
15:22it's definitely,
15:23I'm like in a definite
15:24pinch me mode
15:25and,
15:25and,
15:26you know,
15:26back to the,
15:26the David Ellison show
15:28and things like that.
15:29I had,
15:29I had talked to my wife
15:30late last year
15:31and,
15:32you know,
15:33just,
15:33I don't know if you get this way.
15:35I get,
15:35you know,
15:35kind of not burnout,
15:36but just kind of like,
15:37you know what,
15:38you know,
15:38I'm going to take some time off.
15:39I'm going to do something else.
15:41And 10 years of the podcast,
15:43you know,
15:43it's,
15:44it's been fun.
15:45You know,
15:45I got paid well from not fast.
15:46You know,
15:46we get,
15:47we get,
15:48it's,
15:49it's fun to get blabber mouth headlines
15:50and,
15:51you know,
15:51the craziest,
15:52they pull the craziest stuff
15:54they can find from our shows
15:55and things like that.
15:56And I was just like,
15:56I was like 10 years,
15:57a good round number.
15:59I just hit it back in September.
16:02So I was like,
16:02I was like,
16:03I'll make it to 10 years of the podcast,
16:05go off into the sunset,
16:06say,
16:06thank you.
16:07Good night.
16:08And I just happened to back in January,
16:11asked David if he wants to do it,
16:12to do a podcast.
16:14And I was like,
16:15all right,
16:15well that's bringing me back in.
16:16And then Bobby pops up and he's like,
16:18Hey,
16:18do you want to do some shows?
16:19I'm like,
16:20well,
16:20I guess that's bringing me back in.
16:21Like I was trying to quit all of this.
16:24And like,
16:24now I'm doing more than I've done.
16:26And in 30 years,
16:27you know,
16:28like out of nowhere.
16:29Now,
16:29you know,
16:30D Sider talked about this,
16:31you know,
16:31with the passion of Ozzie and whatnot.
16:33And he thought,
16:34you know,
16:34I'm going to put the band back together.
16:35Do you think that that might have something to do with,
16:37with Bobby trying to,
16:38trying to get things back together as well,
16:39after getting a scare like that?
16:41Um,
16:42I would think so.
16:43I think that I would hope so.
16:45I mean,
16:45I would,
16:46you know,
16:46that,
16:47that would kind of show everybody kind of everybody's mortality and things
16:51like that.
16:52But I mean,
16:52you know,
16:52he was also not,
16:54you know,
16:55like I said,
16:55I was kind of in,
16:56in the trenches and saying all of the new metal stuff kind of coming back.
16:59And,
17:00and I don't think he was seeing that on a daily basis like I was.
17:03So I think he was more hesitant going out on these last shows than I was,
17:07because I,
17:07I assumed there were going to be people there because the,
17:11you know,
17:12the,
17:13the,
17:13the groundswell of this band over the years,
17:15the undergroundness of the bands kind of,
17:17kind of coming to a point where people were wanting to check it out again.
17:20I don't know if Bobby was seeing that as much as I was.
17:22So he was,
17:23I think he was,
17:24you know,
17:25tepid to go out,
17:26but I mean,
17:28we,
17:28we had to order reorder merch two days into the tour.
17:32Like we were like,
17:32we are going to run out.
17:33And like,
17:34I had to call my guy and,
17:36you know,
17:36get another a hundred shirts overnighted to,
17:39to another club so that we could,
17:41you know,
17:41so that we didn't run out of merch by the end of the end of the run.
17:43Like,
17:44I mean,
17:45you know,
17:45the shows were very well attended.
17:47Um,
17:48and everybody was buying shirts and posters and stickers and just everything
17:53else.
17:53It was,
17:55this is the best.
17:58I'm not going to say version of the band because obviously with Jason
18:00passing that,
18:01you know,
18:01that we'll never have that back,
18:03but this is the best like business version of the band because,
18:07you know,
18:0820 years ago we were all drinking and doing whatever and not focusing on the
18:12business side of it.
18:13You know,
18:13we were all chasing ladies and all that nonsense.
18:17And so like this time we're all married men going out,
18:20going,
18:20all right,
18:20we can,
18:21you know,
18:21treat this as a proper,
18:23proper,
18:24uh,
18:25you know,
18:25touring business and,
18:26you know,
18:27make a few bucks,
18:27but also just have a good time.
18:29And,
18:29and,
18:29and,
18:30and just,
18:31just really basking what's going on.
18:33So,
18:33so yeah,
18:33I think Bobby had the health scare and,
18:36you know,
18:37Hey,
18:37let's try it one more time.
18:38Let's see what happens.
18:39And,
18:40and I know from just the talks that we've all had,
18:44you know,
18:45the band sat down after the last show and just,
18:47we all looked at each other,
18:49like what just happened?
18:50Like that,
18:50that was good.
18:51Like none of us expected the fanfare and the kids and the singing along and
18:57the merch sales and just,
18:59just everything.
19:00Everything was so positive for this first run.
19:03So I'm excited to see what happens with this run with smile empty soul.
19:07Well,
19:07I'll tell you what,
19:07you're starting off at a great place.
19:08Have you played at the machine shop before?
19:11Yeah,
19:11we actually played there.
19:12I think in Oh two,
19:13I would assume it was a very,
19:14like,
19:15I think the venue opened in Oh two,
19:16but I think it was pretty close.
19:18Yeah.
19:19Yeah.
19:19We,
19:19we played there,
19:20uh,
19:22like November of Oh two.
19:24Um,
19:24and then I,
19:25technically we were supposed to play there.
19:27Uh,
19:28in 2007,
19:29but that's like our,
19:30uh,
19:31that was like,
19:31I think that was the first show after our singer just left the band.
19:36So we were just,
19:37he left us mid tour and we were just kind of like,
19:40uh,
19:40well,
19:41I guess I remember we went to the show,
19:44but we didn't play the show.
19:45But yeah,
19:45I've been in the machine shop a couple of times.
19:47And obviously of,
19:48of,
19:48of all venues in,
19:50you know,
19:51small towns for that one to be so like world famous,
19:56like just,
19:56you know,
19:57everybody's always wearing the shirts.
19:59You know,
19:59every show there's seems to be sold out.
20:02It's like,
20:03it's like,
20:03it's like such a,
20:04such a hub for music to be,
20:06you know,
20:07kind of a,
20:07what is,
20:08is Flint technically a suburb of Detroit?
20:11Yeah.
20:11It's,
20:12it's,
20:12it's an hour away,
20:13you know,
20:13it's okay.
20:14Yeah.
20:15But,
20:15uh,
20:16but you know,
20:16you talk about,
20:17uh,
20:17people wearing the shirts.
20:18I don't know if you noticed or not,
20:19but,
20:19uh,
20:20I know you're a Pantera fan.
20:21I see your Cowboys from hell tattoo and your Pantera guys.
20:24Uh,
20:24Vinnie Paul was buried in a machine shop.
20:27Sure.
20:27Did you know that?
20:27Oh,
20:28wow.
20:28I did not know that.
20:29Wow.
20:29Yeah.
20:30VP.
20:30Uh,
20:31he was,
20:31uh,
20:31yeah,
20:32he was a good dude.
20:33When you go in there,
20:34you can see some of,
20:35uh,
20:35they've got some,
20:36uh,
20:36some hell yeah stuff on the wall and Kevin's office that you can check out.
20:40But,
20:40uh,
20:40yeah.
20:40So what,
20:41when did you discover Pantera?
20:44Um,
20:45I,
20:45I got into them,
20:47you know,
20:47maybe technically a little late.
20:48It was the,
20:49uh,
20:49it was actually a headbangers ball.
20:51They did a special on far beyond driven.
20:53I would have been 15,
20:55um,
20:56at the time.
20:57And I,
20:59I just like,
21:00I,
21:00I watched them.
21:01I,
21:01you know,
21:01I,
21:02I used to tape headbangers ball like every week and then just watch it
21:05constantly through the week and watch the videos and the interviews.
21:08And,
21:08and they did a whole special where,
21:10you know,
21:10Ricky and those guys went down to the Texas stadium and they're kicking
21:13field goals.
21:13And,
21:14and it's just something about like,
21:16obviously the music's great,
21:18but the guys themselves were so much fun.
21:20You know,
21:20I,
21:20I've said so many times on my podcast over the years,
21:23like dime bag would have been awesome on,
21:25you know,
21:26Instagram reels and Tik TOK and things like,
21:29like if you would have gave dime bag,
21:30you know,
21:31vine or any of that,
21:32any of those things,
21:33like he would have,
21:34he would have been just loving life because I mean,
21:36he was kind of the original vlogger to begin with,
21:40you know,
21:40and like with the vulgar videos and things like that.
21:43And so,
21:43you know,
21:44I have to thank him for,
21:45you know,
21:45my early bands,
21:46you know,
21:47pre primer,
21:48like we all carried cameras around just because we wanted to be like Pantera.
21:51So I have so much footage of me at like 18,
21:5519 years old,
21:56playing these crappy bars and things like that because of Pantera,
22:00because we thought,
22:01you know,
22:01we're going to document all this stuff and make fun videos and things like
22:05that.
22:05So,
22:06yeah,
22:06I got into them.
22:08It was like the weekend that,
22:09that far beyond driven came out.
22:12And then I got to meet them doing the,
22:16you know,
22:16like I said,
22:17kind of stalking the buses thing.
22:201994,
22:21I'm 15 years old.
22:23Um,
22:24we saw big Val in the hotel part in the hotel lobby.
22:28And you knew all of the Pantera crew because of the videos.
22:32So we walked up to him and he's like,
22:35he's like,
22:35you guys be cool and they'll be cool.
22:37And all this other stuff.
22:38So finally I went into the bathroom and my friend busted open the door.
22:42He's like,
22:42dime bags,
22:43checking out of the lobby right now.
22:44And,
22:45you know,
22:45I turned the corner and I saw the big pink beard and,
22:47um,
22:48you know,
22:48we went and got photos and thank God,
22:50a friend of mine back then used to carry one of the,
22:53those like 35 millimeter cameras around with them.
22:55And then like,
22:56I have so many cool photos from back then,
22:59obviously pre,
22:59you know,
23:00camera phone and all that stuff.
23:01So luckily he carried a camera and I have,
23:04I have photos with me and Vinnie Paul and dime bag and Rex and Phil and,
23:08and just everybody from back then.
23:10And,
23:11uh,
23:12and so,
23:12yeah,
23:12I got to meet him then.
23:13And I met him throughout the years up until I,
23:16I damage plan came through Louisville where I live now.
23:21And I almost didn't go to the show.
23:23I wasn't the biggest damage plan fan.
23:26Um,
23:26a friend of mine had like an extra ticket and he's like,
23:29you know,
23:29come out to the show.
23:31Let's have some fun.
23:32And,
23:33uh,
23:33and so we go to the show.
23:34It's a great show.
23:35They actually closed with walk in a new level.
23:38And,
23:38you know,
23:38they,
23:39they said something,
23:40I remember dime said something like,
23:42you know,
23:42we're not the reason that we're not playing these songs for you or
23:45something like,
23:45you know,
23:45just kind of throwing some shade of Phil and,
23:47and,
23:47and all that stuff.
23:48And,
23:49and as we were leaving,
23:50I look over and I see a crowd of people and they're all standing
23:52around dime.
23:53And I,
23:54you know,
23:54I'm,
23:54this is 10 years later,
23:55almost,
23:56almost to the exact day.
23:57It was August 94.
23:58When I first met him,
24:00August,
24:002004,
24:01when I last saw him,
24:03I had this really weird closure conversation.
24:06I'd already toured in primer.
24:08Um,
24:08I almost,
24:09I thanked him,
24:09you know,
24:10I was like,
24:10thanks for the inspiration.
24:11I got,
24:12you know,
24:12I kind of told him what I had done.
24:13And he was like,
24:14Oh man,
24:14that's awesome.
24:15Blah,
24:15blah,
24:15blah.
24:15And like had a really cool closure kind of conversation.
24:18And then a couple of months later,
24:19he was,
24:20he was taken from us,
24:21man.
24:21So,
24:21but,
24:22uh,
24:22but yeah,
24:22I,
24:23you know,
24:23dime bag,
24:23I probably met him,
24:25you know,
24:2510 times over the years.
24:26And for me being a little kid up to my early twenties,
24:29man,
24:29he could not have been nicer and welcoming and cool to,
24:33to everybody around us,
24:35including myself.
24:36Yeah.
24:36Uh,
24:36I'm lucky,
24:38you know,
24:38there's,
24:38there's a,
24:38there's a whole generation of people out there,
24:40uh,
24:41that have never seen and never will see Pantera.
24:43I mean,
24:44you know,
24:44Zach's out there and Charlie and I'm not taking anything from those guys,
24:46but you know what I'm talking about.
24:47And it's like,
24:48uh,
24:49I saw him and I got to interview him as well.
24:51I interviewed,
24:51you know,
24:52them,
24:52those guys,
24:52I think in January of,
24:54uh,
24:54Oh four.
24:55So they,
24:55they were just,
24:56uh,
24:56kind of starting out with the damage plan thing.
24:58And,
24:59uh,
24:59then the last time I saw Vinny is actually pinned on my Twitter,
25:02my ex.
25:03Cause I just can't seem to,
25:05I just can't seem to take it off,
25:06but it's like,
25:06you know,
25:06we were in Vegas and,
25:07you know,
25:08Vinny had been over-served a little bit.
25:11Nice.
25:12And it was his idea to start a video.
25:13So I was like,
25:14all right,
25:14let's start a video.
25:15And so,
25:15you know,
25:16but yeah,
25:17the last time I,
25:18last time I talked to Vinny,
25:19um,
25:20I,
25:21I grew up,
25:22I grew up around Chris Kale from five finger death punch.
25:24Like,
25:24yeah,
25:25yeah.
25:26Yeah.
25:27Yeah.
25:27We played,
25:28uh,
25:28you know,
25:28we played a ton of shows together back in the day.
25:30It actually,
25:31even in one of my early bands,
25:32like when I left to go to primer,
25:34he actually took my spot in my old band.
25:36And then,
25:36um,
25:37obviously kept in touch.
25:38He was the best,
25:39you know,
25:39the best man at my first wedding,
25:40things like that.
25:41So like he,
25:42you know,
25:43we've been very close over the years.
25:45And,
25:45uh,
25:45so,
25:46you know,
25:46I texted him one day.
25:47I was like,
25:47Hey man,
25:48do you know anybody,
25:48you know,
25:49with hell?
25:49Yeah.
25:49So I could go to the show and he's like,
25:51just go with me.
25:52And I'm like,
25:52all right.
25:53He was,
25:53he happened to be in Louisville at the time.
25:55You know,
25:55we go back and,
25:56and Vinny's after the show,
25:58Vinny's holding court downstairs to tell all these great stories.
26:00It was right after they played a rock on the range.
26:04Uh,
26:04that was the first time he had been back to Columbus,
26:07Ohio.
26:08And so he was talking about how he was,
26:11he was almost more annoyed by everybody asking him how he was that day,
26:15rather than obviously being in Columbus,
26:18Ohio,
26:18because he,
26:19he,
26:20he,
26:20he said,
26:21yes,
26:21it was hard on him,
26:22but it was also awful because everybody that he saw,
26:25he's like,
26:25you're doing okay today.
26:27Everybody.
26:27Okay.
26:27You know,
26:28he,
26:28he was almost annoyed with everybody talking to him.
26:30But so,
26:31so yeah,
26:31I mean,
26:31I,
26:32I got a,
26:32I got a nice chat with him,
26:33you know,
26:34right before he,
26:34you know,
26:35maybe a year or two before he passed too.
26:36So,
26:36uh,
26:37and,
26:38and again,
26:38you know,
26:39Vinny was always great to me too.
26:41Yeah.
26:41He was great.
26:42He used,
26:42he used to text me all the time about hockey.
26:44That was,
26:45that was,
26:45that was our thing.
26:46And that's a,
26:47that's another story for another time.
26:51I'm going to push everybody towards the machine shop coming up on
26:53Saturday.
26:54As I record,
26:54this was smile empty.
26:55So the 25th anniversary,
26:57uh,
26:57celebration,
26:58the introduction to mayhem with a primer 55.
27:02And,
27:02uh,
27:02thanks for,
27:03uh,
27:03thanks for taking the time and continued success.
27:05All right.
27:05Maybe,
27:06maybe we'll see you Sunday up in Cadillac.
27:08There we go.
27:09It's going to be good times,
27:10man.
27:10Thanks for having me.
27:11This has been great.
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