- 6 weeks ago
On October 25, 2025, the musician St. Vincent talked with the New Yorker staff writer Vinson Cunningham at the 26th annual New Yorker Festival.
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00:00Hi everybody, I'm Vincent Cunningham.
00:28I'm a staff writer at The New Yorker.
00:30And on behalf of the magazine, I just want to welcome you to the 26th annual New Yorker
00:36Festival.
00:39The New Yorker Festival is about to get kicked off of its parents' insurance.
00:43It's a huge, huge year.
00:46Thank you for joining us this evening, and I'm thrilled to be on stage with the visionary
00:51musician, producer, director, Andy Clark, best known to all of us as St. Vincent.
00:58Hello, thank you.
01:02I'm going to read your bio just because I want to ground us.
01:06Is that okay?
01:07Yeah.
01:08I know that is a mortifying practice, but I'm going to do it.
01:10Great.
01:11I'll put on my hair suit.
01:40for her virtuosic guitar work, her sonic
01:43experimentation, her sharp
01:44lyrical narratives, and her ever-evolving
01:47visual style, St. Vincent
01:48has consistently garnered critical
01:51acclaim for pushing boundaries.
01:53Her fusion of art rock,
01:55electronic, and pop elements in her music
01:57has earned her a place among,
01:59and this is real deal stuff,
02:01the most influential artists
02:02of her generation.
02:03Really? Yeah.
02:06Is there a memo
02:07that comes that says, you are now one of the most
02:09influential? That was the most
02:12shocking, and the rest, some of the things
02:14that you said before I was aware of, but
02:16that was the most
02:18shocking thing.
02:20Thank you, that's very nice.
02:22Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to have you
02:24here.
02:26Maybe in a site-specific way, I would like to
02:28start by talking about New York.
02:32You're doing
02:33an engagement at the
02:35Carlisle on the Upper East Side
02:36coming up.
02:39And that to me
02:40is, that is such
02:42an amazing show.
02:45It's so, like,
02:47luxe to do that.
02:48An amazing sort of expression of
02:50show business present,
02:51so intimate.
02:52What made you want to do that gig?
02:55The Carlisle is a place that I've
02:57been to a number
02:59of times, and
03:00every time is very special, but
03:03twice I've been mistaken
03:05for a prostitute.
03:07There?
03:08Which I'm not saying I'm not.
03:10The music business is tough, but
03:12it was a place that
03:17honestly, any time I was on the Upper East Side,
03:21I would go and have a martini at the
03:23Bimmelman's Bar, and
03:26just, it felt like, ah, New York.
03:29Like, it felt like some, you know,
03:31some classic idea of New York.
03:34And so I wanted to do some
03:38intimate shows that, where I could,
03:42I could be arrested by the jazz police.
03:45Yeah, you, I mean, you, we were singing
03:48Lush Life just moments before we walked
03:50on stage, yeah.
03:51Yeah, you guys missed it.
03:52It was good.
03:53It was good.
03:53It was perfect, yeah.
03:54We nailed the key change.
03:56It was crazy acapella.
03:59Have you always had the inner
04:00jazz police?
04:02Have you felt that there was a sort of
04:03God that you had to propitiate
04:06by doing this?
04:07Well, I think my, my aunt and uncle
04:09are jazz musicians, and
04:11so they sort of
04:13raised me in a sense.
04:15And there was definitely a,
04:18there's definitely a sense of like,
04:20okay, you've heard
04:22John Coltrane Love Supreme
04:23when you're 14 years old.
04:27This blows open the doors
04:29of your understanding of what
04:31is even possible
04:33on like a God level.
04:35And then, so you're like,
04:37okay, well, that's the bar, so.
04:40Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
04:41You know, you're like, ah.
04:42So, yeah, there is always,
04:44that, you know, looming,
04:47looming fear, but.
04:49Your aunt and Uncle Tuck and Patty.
04:50Yeah.
04:51And you, and you worked with them
04:52on, weren't you kind of.
04:54Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was,
04:55I was a roadie.
04:56It was very, like,
04:57it was very important.
04:58My uncle's, who's very engineer-minded,
05:00was, it was very much about like,
05:02you, you need to learn
05:05all of the aspects
05:07of your trade.
05:08Yeah.
05:08It wasn't like,
05:10you know,
05:11oh, go be a star.
05:13It was none of that.
05:15Right.
05:16God, I wish they would have
05:17given me that training,
05:19but, um, no.
05:20No, I can't,
05:21but it was all,
05:22it was all,
05:22it was very, like,
05:23practical,
05:24get your hands dirty
05:25sort of,
05:25sort of stuff.
05:27You know,
05:27I was like,
05:27touring with them
05:28and being their road manager
05:29and, like,
05:30testing the electrical outlets
05:33to make sure that
05:33the voltage was appropriate.
05:36Yeah.
05:36Because it's very different
05:37in very different places.
05:38We'll,
05:38we'll talk a lot
05:39about voltage tonight.
05:42But, but, yeah,
05:43so it was very much about
05:45It's a big no,
05:45but there's voltage stuff in here.
05:46Yeah, okay, great.
05:47Yeah, great.
05:48So, but it was,
05:49it was like,
05:49if you want to do this,
05:51understand what this is.
05:53Yeah.
05:53And in a way
05:55that I think,
05:56I'm,
05:56I feel very grateful for,
05:58or it was very much about,
06:04like,
06:04you're a supplicant,
06:06you're a humble supplicant
06:07to the,
06:09the big,
06:10the big ocean of music
06:12and all the people
06:13who have come before you
06:14and made things
06:15that have changed your life
06:16for the better.
06:18So,
06:19if you,
06:20you are lucky
06:21to give back
06:22into that sort of
06:23great unknown
06:24and if you
06:26are worthy
06:28of doing so,
06:29you better know
06:30your craft.
06:32Yeah.
06:33That's,
06:33that's,
06:34that's heavy.
06:36Yeah,
06:36it's heavy for a 14-year-old.
06:38That was a lot,
06:38that was a lot to carry.
06:40The ocean of,
06:42yeah.
06:44Yeah.
06:44One thing,
06:45I wonder always,
06:46working sort of
06:47in the roadie role,
06:48I always think about
06:50somebody watching,
06:52as people did tonight,
06:53flooding into
06:54a venue
06:55and
06:56on some level
06:57checking the voltage levels,
06:59understanding microphones,
07:00is a way really
07:01of having a deep sympathy
07:02for the audience
07:03as well.
07:04Not just the,
07:05the ancestors,
07:07but,
07:07okay,
07:07who's,
07:08how do,
07:09how does this music land
07:10right over the lip
07:11of the stage?
07:12Did,
07:13was there an education
07:14in that,
07:15that sort of channel
07:16of communication
07:16that started back then?
07:18Yes.
07:20I mean,
07:20there was,
07:21there was a sense of like,
07:22it's a,
07:23there,
07:24there are things
07:25that are merely measures
07:28of respect for an audience.
07:29If you're there,
07:30you want the show
07:31to sound as good
07:32as it possibly can for them.
07:33If you're there,
07:34you ought to like,
07:36and maybe it's like a jazz thing,
07:37but it was like,
07:38you come correct.
07:39Like,
07:40it was very,
07:40I mean,
07:41my,
07:41you know,
07:42my heart was also in 90s,
07:46you know,
07:46grunge and rock
07:47rock music
07:48and things
07:49that were all about,
07:50like,
07:50this is authenticity
07:52and I showed up
07:53in the clothes
07:55that I was wearing all day
07:56and this is not about artifice,
07:58but,
07:58oh my God,
07:59I don't want to even say this,
08:00but this is like
08:01an intrusive thought,
08:02but there is like
08:03an aspect of,
08:04of like,
08:06yeah,
08:06just,
08:06here I am,
08:07just take me as I am
08:08that just like,
08:09it feels like kind of cringy
08:11and like,
08:12privilegey.
08:12like,
08:14you bought a fucking ticket,
08:15you worked hard for that money,
08:17I want to give you
08:18the best show
08:19I can possibly give you
08:20and I want to think about
08:21every aspect of that
08:23and what that means.
08:24It's just,
08:25it seems like respect to me.
08:27When you first said yes,
08:28though,
08:28there was a kind of like,
08:29yes,
08:29was there a,
08:30was there a negative valence
08:32to what you learned
08:32about that relationship too?
08:33In terms of like,
08:37like,
08:39crowd work?
08:40No.
08:40No.
08:42Just the,
08:43I don't know,
08:43the pressures of the expectations
08:44of fulfilling that,
08:46the respect that you talk about
08:47every night.
08:49Yeah,
08:49I think that for a lot of years
08:51there was certainly
08:52like an ethos of,
08:54oh,
08:54you couldn't possibly hate me
08:55more than I hate myself.
08:56So,
08:57you know,
08:57like that,
08:58this is my guard,
09:00this is,
09:00this is my shield.
09:02Yeah.
09:02I'm wondering,
09:03now at this stage
09:04in your,
09:05in your career
09:06and your work
09:07and you've played,
09:08you were recently
09:08at the Royal Albert Hall
09:10playing with a huge orchestra.
09:12Yeah,
09:12that was sublime.
09:13Yeah,
09:14that was so sublime.
09:15It was crazy.
09:16I mean,
09:17I just imagine that
09:18then sort of sizing back down
09:21to this sort of,
09:22the intimacy of a place
09:23like the Carlyle,
09:24does it,
09:25does it immediately shock you
09:26into a new realization
09:28of that relationship?
09:31I mean,
09:31with Royal Albert Hall,
09:32because we,
09:34Rachel Eckroth,
09:35who's going to come out
09:35and play it a little bit.
09:36Yeah.
09:37She did a lot of the arrangements
09:38for the orchestra
09:39that,
09:41yes,
09:42fucking crushed it.
09:46She's a G,
09:47you know,
09:48you know that.
09:49but there was something
09:52about the magnitude,
09:53I think,
09:53of playing with the orchestra.
09:56You know,
09:5760 people,
09:58these arrangements
09:59that had been,
10:00you know,
10:01thought about
10:02and worked over
10:02and,
10:03you know,
10:04refined for months
10:06at a time
10:07and an incredible
10:08conductor,
10:10Jules Buckley.
10:11It was like,
10:11that was the last show
10:14I did
10:15of this sort of
10:16all-born screaming tour
10:17and it,
10:17it was,
10:21I swear I don't
10:23throw this word around,
10:24but it was glorious.
10:25Like,
10:25it was glorious,
10:26it was glorious
10:27to hear them.
10:28It was glorious
10:29and it also made me go,
10:31oh God,
10:32there's a lot of records,
10:33you know,
10:34too?
10:34Like,
10:34I remember playing
10:37a show here
10:38probably in,
10:39what,
10:392009,
10:40maybe on my second record
10:41and it was a terrible show.
10:43Like,
10:43I fucking bombed,
10:44I don't know,
10:45it just fucking sucked,
10:46you know?
10:46You know when you
10:47just fucking suck?
10:49I just sucked
10:50and I remember
10:52I had a,
10:53I was living in
10:53South Williamsburg
10:54at the time
10:55and there was a,
10:55like a little yoga studio
10:57over there
10:57that I would kind of go to
10:58even though like,
10:59you know,
11:02it's not,
11:03I can't,
11:03with the,
11:04anyway,
11:05it doesn't,
11:06but there's a yoga studio
11:07that I went to
11:08and there was like
11:09a really lovely yoga teacher
11:10and I said,
11:11oh,
11:11I'm a musician,
11:12you should come to my show
11:13and she came to it
11:14and then I ran to her
11:15the next time at yoga
11:16and even she,
11:18like this like zen master,
11:20couldn't pretend
11:21that it was a good show.
11:25I,
11:26it was a unique show,
11:27it was a great experience.
11:29No,
11:30she didn't,
11:30she,
11:30I was like,
11:31oh,
11:31did you make it to the show?
11:32She's like,
11:33yeah,
11:34and I was like,
11:36fuck,
11:38you know,
11:39it was brutal,
11:40yeah,
11:42yeah.
11:42Yeah.
11:46But so anyway,
11:47I'm really glad to be back
11:48here with all of you guys.
11:49it's good to be back.
11:52Oh man,
11:53just another live performance question
11:55before we maybe pivot
11:56to other topics.
11:58The small show specifically
11:59always makes,
12:00we were talking about
12:01Lush Live for this reason,
12:02always makes me think
12:03of the cover.
12:06Just singing cover songs,
12:07singing other people's songs,
12:09interpreting other people's songs.
12:11What is,
12:12what's your relationship to that?
12:13Do you enjoy it?
12:14Is it a thing of intimidation
12:16or is it a kind of comfort
12:17because of a terrain
12:19that you already know?
12:22I,
12:23I mean,
12:23depending on the song,
12:24Yeah.
12:27I think that I love it
12:29depending on the song
12:30because there's also,
12:31there's this,
12:32there's,
12:34it's not just the,
12:35oh,
12:35I've been a person
12:36who's sung along
12:37in the car
12:37to this particular song
12:39for,
12:39you know,
12:40however many years,
12:4118.
12:43Or,
12:43but it's more like,
12:45I didn't write these words.
12:48I don't know what it meant to them,
12:51but I know what it means to me.
12:55And so there's,
12:56there's that sort of like,
12:57oh,
12:57I'm,
12:58oh,
12:58it feels free
13:00because you didn't write it
13:01and you're not going,
13:01ah,
13:02why didn't I choose a different,
13:04whatever?
13:04Why'd I say snorted?
13:06You know,
13:06or whatever.
13:07Why'd I choose a word that didn't?
13:09Well,
13:10something that I'm really interested
13:11in your career
13:11is that you have,
13:12in various ways,
13:14either by sort of,
13:15um,
13:16ah,
13:18no,
13:19it's just that
13:20we,
13:21this is,
13:22we're going to do this.
13:23Okay.
13:24Okay.
13:25What are we doing?
13:29With too much water?
13:30Yeah,
13:30I would love some.
13:33Go on.
13:37Just wait for it.
13:39In various ways,
13:44you have reinterpreted
13:45your own material,
13:46whether it's like,
13:47can I repay you the favor now?
13:50No,
13:50it's good.
13:50I'm really good.
13:52No,
13:52I,
13:52that doesn't feel right.
13:54You have in various ways,
13:56um,
13:58reinterpreted your own,
14:00whether it's like,
14:00I'm going to do this record,
14:02again,
14:02in Spanish,
14:03or I'm going to do this record,
14:04um,
14:05with different instrumentation.
14:06You have sort of,
14:08even within your own corpus,
14:09I think,
14:10talked about,
14:11um,
14:12on some ways,
14:12like enacted that,
14:14an openness to your own songs.
14:15And it makes me wonder
14:16whether,
14:18for you,
14:18songs are closed
14:19when they're done.
14:20Like,
14:20for me,
14:21I,
14:21I can,
14:22I wrote my book
14:22and I have,
14:23I have never opened it again.
14:24Yeah.
14:24Except at a thing,
14:26where I'm expected to do it.
14:28Or,
14:28whether you are
14:29the kind of person
14:30who is all,
14:31like,
14:31if you,
14:32if you could,
14:33you would go keep tinkering with it.
14:34Or that there,
14:35it remains alive for you
14:36in that way.
14:37I think it only remains alive
14:39in that I get to perform it
14:41every night
14:42and whatever it means
14:43to other people.
14:44I do not go back
14:45and listen to my own work.
14:47Um,
14:47and I don't go back
14:48and go like,
14:49boy,
14:50I wish I coulda,
14:51at all.
14:52Like,
14:52once I'm done,
14:53I'm so,
14:54that,
14:54that chapter is,
14:56yeah.
14:56Well,
14:57you've,
14:57you've talked,
14:58you know,
14:58various interviews about,
15:00you use a really awesome idea for it,
15:02which I'd never thought about,
15:03which is like,
15:04a sort of,
15:04in order to start performing a song,
15:06you almost have to dissociate
15:08from the,
15:08the process
15:10and the sort of,
15:11whatever the,
15:12the conditions of its making.
15:14Um,
15:15does that,
15:16I was wondering,
15:17like,
15:17if you're singing a song
15:18a lot of times,
15:19after a tour,
15:19like you,
15:20you are right now,
15:20does that alienate you
15:22even further from the song
15:23because you're like,
15:24are not,
15:25you've sung it so many times
15:26that you're distant
15:27from the feeling
15:29that gave rise to the song?
15:30No,
15:30and I will say that
15:31that might have been
15:32something that I said
15:33that I no longer feel
15:34or believe.
15:35I say lots of things like that.
15:36I know.
15:37Yeah.
15:39It's almost like,
15:40why are you asking me
15:41about that other person?
15:41Exactly.
15:41Like,
15:42there's going to be
15:42a lot of things
15:43tonight that we
15:44really,
15:46deeply regret.
15:47Yeah.
15:47It's my hope.
15:48No,
15:48but I,
15:49no,
15:49I don't feel that way at all.
15:50I feel,
15:51especially if a song
15:53has been,
15:55and it doesn't matter
15:56about,
15:56like,
15:57the labor
15:58of making it.
15:59It's more,
16:00it's solely about,
16:03um,
16:05every time I sing
16:06this word,
16:07does it make me feel
16:08something every time?
16:09You know,
16:09it's all about,
16:10like,
16:10oh,
16:11I'm discovering it anew
16:12in the moment
16:14every night.
16:15So,
16:16I don't feel that way
16:17that,
16:17like,
16:18well,
16:18I guess we gotta,
16:19but I also haven't,
16:21you know,
16:21I think there are musicians
16:22who have,
16:23like,
16:23written themselves a curse,
16:25which is,
16:26like,
16:26well,
16:26I released a song
16:27that I hated
16:28or that I thought
16:30was beneath me
16:31or my audience,
16:32but guess what?
16:33Everybody loves it
16:34and I have to sing that song.
16:35I'm not in that
16:36particular,
16:36like,
16:37hellscape
16:38because it does seem
16:39like a,
16:40you know,
16:40that sounds rough.
16:41Yeah,
16:41it's like a,
16:42that's a weird one.
16:43Yeah.
16:43I mean,
16:44you,
16:44it's probably not that rough
16:45because it's probably,
16:46people are very,
16:47it's probably very lucrative,
16:48but.
16:51Hopefully the song
16:52that you hate
16:52is also the one
16:53that bought your house.
16:54Exactly.
16:55Because if it's not,
16:56then it's all that.
16:57Yeah,
16:57and then,
16:58and then sing
17:00that goddamn song
17:01because people
17:02want to hear it
17:03and it's going to make
17:03them really happy.
17:04Want to hear it.
17:05So.
17:05I have not had occasion
17:08in a long time
17:09speaking of New York
17:10to go through
17:11Times Square
17:12underground
17:13and I did today.
17:14Whoa.
17:14And you know,
17:15there are all the
17:15street musicians
17:16and there was a guy
17:17shredding,
17:18by the way,
17:19D'Angelo's
17:20untitled
17:21How Does It Feel?
17:22Fuck off.
17:24R.I.P. D'Angelo,
17:25like,
17:25let's give a round
17:26inside the town
17:27for D'Angelo.
17:28And it was,
17:31and I had the sigh
17:32that I heard
17:33from over there
17:33is exactly what
17:34happened to me.
17:35Like,
17:35it happened from my body.
17:37But I was thinking
17:37about him,
17:38the rest of my journey
17:39here,
17:40I was thinking about him
17:40vis-a-vis you
17:42in this one way.
17:43He seemed to be someone
17:44who was,
17:47who actually suffered
17:48because of the fact
17:49that his art
17:52made him public,
17:54made him, like,
17:55a body on a stage
17:57that people,
17:57like,
17:58it seemed to be
17:58a part of his work
18:00that he genuinely
18:01did not agree with
18:03or like.
18:04And it seems to me
18:05that this idea,
18:06when I think about you,
18:07I kind of think about this,
18:08like,
18:08the public nature
18:09of the musician,
18:11the artist.
18:11Because you seem to
18:12aim a lot of energy
18:14right there,
18:14like,
18:15right.
18:15This is maybe why
18:16I have these audience questions.
18:17Yeah, yeah.
18:17Because you aim a lot
18:18of intention
18:19right at that moment
18:20of contact.
18:22How does it look?
18:24How does it sound?
18:25Our favorite musicians,
18:26sometimes,
18:26it's not just the music,
18:28it's like,
18:28they remind me
18:29of this color,
18:30this silhouette.
18:31And you seem to
18:31really hone in
18:34on that place.
18:35And I guess my question
18:36is,
18:37was it ever thus?
18:39Or did you grow
18:40into that
18:40because you learned
18:41of so many
18:42of these necessities
18:43of being in your business?
18:45That's a really
18:46good question.
18:51Let's have a round
18:52of applause
18:53for that question.
18:54That was a good,
18:55that was a good,
18:55really good question.
18:58And I say that
18:59not because I'm
19:00stalling for time
19:01because I don't
19:02really know the answer.
19:03I think that inherently,
19:05I have my friend
19:06Annie B. Parson
19:07is,
19:08yep,
19:09is a G
19:10and is one
19:12of my favorite people
19:13and incredibly
19:15informative artist
19:16in my life
19:16and choreographer.
19:17We've worked together,
19:18I met her through
19:19David Byrne
19:19when we were
19:19working together.
19:22Agree?
19:23Like,
19:24no argument here.
19:26The best.
19:26Yeah.
19:27And,
19:27and,
19:28you know,
19:29in working with
19:30Annie B.,
19:31one of the things
19:31that she said
19:33to me
19:33at some point
19:34and it might have
19:35been when I was like
19:36wearing
19:37a child's
19:39toilet costume,
19:41like reading
19:43Jacques,
19:45what's the,
19:46you know,
19:49Dada.
19:50Yeah.
19:50You know,
19:51Dada?
19:54No,
19:55no,
19:55I mean like Dada,
19:56like the art movement.
19:59Cocteau.
20:01Jean Cocteau.
20:04Right?
20:05Jean.
20:06Wow.
20:07They're gonna kick me
20:08out of
20:09the New Yorker.
20:10They're gonna kick me
20:10out of my
20:11New Yorker subscription
20:13for that.
20:14Yeah.
20:15Fuck up.
20:16But,
20:16no,
20:16but so I was like
20:17I'm reading that
20:18while dressed
20:19as a toilet
20:20wearing fake lashes
20:21and Annie B.
20:22was like
20:23I think you're
20:26a vaudeville performer.
20:28I think you have
20:29vaudeville in your heart
20:30and that is like
20:31that,
20:33you know,
20:33she saw it
20:34before I did
20:35but I think
20:36the genesis of it
20:38was not to like
20:40constrain
20:40the psychotic
20:42natural energy
20:43that happens
20:43when you're on stage
20:44trying to express
20:46something that is
20:47you know,
20:49a mountain
20:50through a
20:50little keyhole
20:51it's like
20:53to have
20:55structure
20:56to know
20:58to sort of
21:00respect the space
21:01of the stage
21:01and go
21:02at this moment
21:03in time
21:03I'm going
21:04I'm going
21:05to go here
21:06because there's
21:07energy
21:08downstage right
21:09and I'm gonna
21:10stand here
21:11and this is
21:13going to matter
21:14and you may
21:14break that
21:15as you
21:16go on
21:17or you may
21:18alter
21:18you know
21:19specific
21:19choreography
21:20but
21:20it's
21:22you have
21:23to have
21:23a sort
21:24of framework
21:25and a structure
21:26from which
21:26to
21:27I don't know
21:28leap off
21:29so I don't
21:30know if I
21:31answered your
21:32question
21:32no that makes
21:33a lot of sense
21:33yeah
21:34and I wonder
21:35though
21:35because of
21:36that intention
21:37what you just
21:38said
21:38remind me
21:39a lot
21:39of playwrights
21:40how they say
21:41well actually
21:42it wasn't words
21:42that came to me
21:43it was a stage
21:43picture
21:44or the way
21:45you know
21:45somebody at the
21:46top of a stair
21:46and that was
21:47the genesis
21:48of the play
21:49I wonder if
21:51because you are
21:51oriented in that
21:52way
21:52if there's
21:54something visual
21:55or
21:56a toilet
21:59costume
21:59or whatever
21:59that comes
22:01first
22:01and from that
22:02you work backward
22:03and it
22:04occasions a song
22:05or does it
22:06always start
22:06with the song
22:07and then express
22:08itself
22:08through all these
22:09other
22:09phenomena
22:10I mean
22:11I think
22:12it comes
22:12from the music
22:13and then I
22:14need to frame
22:15it
22:15in some kind
22:17of way
22:17but it's also
22:17like when you
22:18make a record
22:19I'm sure
22:19so many people
22:21here are artists
22:21and writers
22:22and it's like
22:23you don't
22:24making a record
22:25to me feels
22:26like working
22:28on very
22:28intricate puzzle
22:29pieces
22:30but you don't
22:32know what the
22:33big picture is
22:33whatsoever
22:34so you're
22:36toiling away
22:37making sure
22:37that every
22:38little line
22:40is perfect
22:40but until
22:42it's done
22:43you're like
22:44oh I had
22:45no idea
22:46that that's
22:47what I was
22:47making
22:48I had no
22:48idea that
22:48it was a
22:49landscape
22:49or it was
22:50a you know
22:51a Baltus
22:53or
22:54do you
22:56when you
23:00start
23:00do you
23:01always know
23:01that you're
23:02working on
23:02an album
23:03like if you
23:04write a song
23:05is it
23:05okay there's
23:06gonna
23:06no I'm
23:07always just
23:08working
23:08yeah
23:09with any
23:10luck
23:10I'm always
23:11just like
23:12working and
23:12hoping to
23:13find it
23:14I wish
23:15I talk to
23:15people
23:16I'm so
23:16I'm
23:17curious about
23:18process of
23:19course
23:19and I talk
23:20to so many
23:20people and
23:21like what
23:21do you
23:22do to
23:22like write
23:24a song
23:24or do a
23:25thing
23:25and some
23:26people have
23:27you know
23:28modes and
23:30methodologies and
23:31prescriptive ways
23:31I have no
23:32idea
23:33so like I
23:34have no idea
23:35how to write a
23:36song and I
23:36don't mean that
23:37in a self
23:37deprecating way
23:38because I
23:39have done
23:39it
23:40but when I
23:41but when I
23:42approach making
23:43music I'm
23:44never I
23:44have no
23:45idea
23:46yeah
23:46I'm absolute
23:47beginner
23:48well that's
23:49so heartening
23:51to hear
23:51for those of
23:53us who all
23:53I mean always
23:54feel like
23:54beginners
23:54yeah
23:56one question
23:58I have is
23:59precisely about
24:00this like the
24:00sort of approach
24:01to song craft
24:02it does seem
24:04to me that
24:05a thing
24:07today and
24:07I'm not sure
24:08if it's on
24:09the part of
24:09artists or
24:10if it's an
24:11expectation of
24:11the audience
24:12or somewhere
24:12in the
24:13between
24:13but the
24:15lyric these
24:16days so
24:17often is a
24:19way to sort
24:19of establish
24:20I guess what
24:20we now call
24:21parasocial
24:21relationships
24:22like I'm
24:24I'm
24:25no I'm
24:26you're so
24:27onto it
24:27I'm here
24:28just because
24:29I'm like
24:29go on
24:30yeah so
24:31it's like
24:31the lyric
24:33becomes a
24:34way to say
24:35oh like
24:35here's what's
24:36going on in
24:36my life
24:36and I've
24:37always loved
24:37that mode
24:38that deeply
24:39autobiographical
24:39mode
24:40but it seems
24:41like more
24:42and more
24:42if it's
24:42interesting
24:43if it's
24:44interesting
24:44yeah
24:45but it's
24:46like here
24:46I am
24:47you know
24:47like I'm
24:48back
24:48like I've
24:49been living
24:49and here's
24:50the update
24:50or something
24:51like that
24:51right
24:51can I
24:53can I
24:53say a lyric
24:54of yours
24:54that I really
24:55like
24:55sure
24:56yeah
24:56it's from
24:58an early
24:58song of yours
24:58it's called
24:59Jesus Saves
24:59I Spend
25:00oh yeah
25:01oh yeah
25:01fucking love
25:02that song
25:02thank you
25:04while Jesus
25:04is saving
25:05I'm spending
25:05all my days
25:06and backgrounds
25:07and landscapes
25:07with the
25:08languages
25:09of saints
25:09you have
25:11these
25:11wonderfully
25:13oblique
25:14poetic
25:15lyrics
25:15that can be
25:16read in so many
25:17different ways
25:18and I've always
25:19wondered
25:19I guess I'm fixated on this thing
25:21about being in public
25:22being someone that is conscious
25:24of an audience
25:24whether that kind of writing
25:27occasions
25:27a different
25:28are you
25:30on the other side of that transmission
25:32being like what do
25:33I want others
25:35to get from that
25:36and what kind of
25:37relationship does that establish
25:39well I don't know
25:41that we're in
25:41an age of abstraction
25:43or metaphor
25:44yeah
25:46I don't think
25:48that that's
25:49where we are
25:50but where
25:51I go with it
25:53is that
25:54I think songs
25:56and music
25:57are supposed
25:58to reveal yourself
25:59to yourself
26:00and not be about
26:02necessarily
26:03oh let me
26:05like a Zodiac killer
26:06trace
26:07the sort of
26:09what is autobiographical
26:10and what is not
26:12about the artist
26:13because I think
26:14listen
26:17this could sound like
26:18me being on a fucking
26:19high horse
26:19and that's fine
26:20but
26:21I
26:22believe
26:24that
26:25ultimately
26:28to make
26:29something
26:30that
26:30people will want
26:32to listen to
26:32in 30 years
26:33and not just
26:34three days
26:35is
26:36takes
26:38one
26:40in some ways
26:40an extreme selfishness
26:42right
26:42you know
26:43you have this
26:43insane
26:44insane idea
26:46that this needs
26:47to be heard
26:47or whatever
26:48but also
26:48it also takes
26:50like a generosity
26:51of spirit
26:52and
26:53if
26:54everything
26:55is
26:55some
26:55self-referential
26:57thing
27:00I don't know
27:02where
27:02I don't know
27:03I don't know
27:05who that's
27:06for
27:07like
27:08I
27:09the
27:10but it's also
27:12a question
27:13of what do we want
27:14from music
27:15right
27:15like
27:16I
27:17we talked about
27:18we were joking
27:19about Lush Life
27:19we're talking about
27:20you know
27:21Sarah Vaughan
27:21or
27:22it's like
27:22what I want
27:25for music
27:25is I want
27:27to perform
27:29my
27:30fucking
27:31ablutions
27:32I want it
27:35to fucking
27:36heal me
27:37yeah
27:38I want it
27:39to take away
27:40suffering
27:42necessary
27:43and unnecessary
27:44or at least
27:45help me
27:47give a reason
27:48for that
27:48and
27:49that
27:50is like
27:52deep listening
27:53and that's like
27:54like the other night
27:55I was just
27:55fucked up
27:56I was just
27:57fucked in the head
27:58I was just so
27:59just out
28:01just sad
28:02just sad
28:03you know
28:04the kind of like
28:05inexplicably
28:06sad
28:06where you're just like
28:07Joni Mitchell
28:08there's comfort
28:09in melancholy
28:09okay I'm gonna like
28:10revel in this
28:12but I put on
28:13a talk talk
28:14laughing stock
28:15yeah
28:16I'm listening to that record
28:17and it was the only thing
28:19that sort of
28:21met me
28:22in the moment
28:24and transformed
28:24what was
28:25ultimately
28:26a moment
28:27of
28:28sorrow
28:33or whatever
28:33into
28:34into
28:38some
28:41little
28:41even
28:42little
28:42sprinkle
28:43of
28:44hope
28:45and I don't mean
28:45that in a
28:46rah rah rah
28:46music supposed to
28:47make you feel
28:47happy way
28:48fuck that
28:48but something
28:50that you can
28:50take away
28:52from yourself
28:52just a little bit
28:53and look at
28:54instead of just
28:55but I went
28:55this is
28:56I'm standing
28:57I'm
28:58I'm beholding
28:59something that's
29:00genuinely
29:01human
29:03and glorious
29:04and flawed
29:05and frail
29:06and
29:06thank god
29:08this exists
29:09so that's
29:10what I want
29:10out of music
29:11so I don't
29:12there is a
29:14I think
29:15in some way
29:16what you're
29:17the parasocial
29:18nature
29:18that you're
29:19talking about
29:20is almost
29:21like the
29:21epidemic
29:22of
29:22the
29:24the
29:25the
29:25transaction
29:26of
29:27you know
29:29oh god
29:30social media
29:31whatever
29:32you know
29:32what I mean
29:32the way
29:33that we
29:33interact
29:34and the
29:37sort of
29:37economy
29:38surrounding
29:39surrounding
29:41that
29:42well
29:43it
29:43that was a
29:45long answer
29:45it was a long
29:47beautiful
29:47and very generous
29:48answer
29:48thank you
29:49I do wonder
29:51though
29:51you know
29:53one thing that
29:53comes up
29:54in that
29:54distinction
29:56is the
29:56difference
29:56between
29:57somebody who
29:58is a listener
29:59which is a
29:59lifelong
30:00and ever
30:01deepening
30:02relationship
30:02and kind
30:04of a fan
30:04which does
30:04seem like
30:05more of a
30:05market relation
30:07but it's
30:09I'm curious
30:10about fandom
30:11me too
30:12well
30:12because especially
30:13with online
30:14it becomes
30:14very virulent
30:16and strange
30:16you know
30:17if you say
30:18something
30:18if I were to
30:18right now
30:19tweet something
30:19about Nicki Minaj
30:20negative
30:21I don't know
30:22if I would like
30:23make it to
30:23tomorrow
30:24necessarily
30:24wait
30:26I'm so sorry
30:27what's going
30:28on with Nicki Minaj
30:29do you mean
30:32with regard
30:33to what I
30:33just said
30:33or like
30:34yeah
30:34like
30:34we can
30:36edit this out
30:36of the broadcast
30:37do you know
30:37what a barb is
30:38like a barb
30:39like a jab
30:40so Nicki Minaj
30:41Nicki Minaj's
30:43fans
30:43online
30:44I will be at
30:45the retirement
30:45home
30:46and it's been
30:46very nice
30:47to meet you
30:48me and
30:48Rue McClanahan
30:49yeah
30:50Nicki Minaj's
30:51fans are called
30:52barbs
30:53there's a self
30:54it's like
30:55Beyonce has
30:56the beehive
30:57but is that
30:57in reference
30:58to barb
30:58Taylor Swift
30:58has Swifties
30:59is that in
31:00reference to a
31:01barbie
31:01no
31:02it's reference
31:03to Nicki Minaj's
31:06repeated references
31:08in her music
31:08and her visuals
31:09to the Mattel
31:10toy barbie
31:11it is
31:11got it
31:12yeah
31:12but they like
31:14and you don't
31:16you can't
31:16you really can't
31:17fuck around with that
31:17you can't be like
31:18oh Nicki Minaj
31:19I was disappointed
31:20with her last album
31:20it will be a bad day
31:21in your life
31:22and all I'm saying
31:24is that like
31:24that is a slightly
31:26different thing
31:26than the raw
31:28and deep thing
31:29that you're talking
31:30about
31:30and I wonder
31:32if
31:32whoa
31:35I mean
31:36I guess
31:37we're learning
31:37I'm learning
31:38but
31:38no it's like
31:41it's like
31:42it's kind of like
31:43the sharks
31:44and the jets
31:44out there
31:45I'm just
31:46I'm just bringing
31:47you to the news
31:47I didn't even
31:48want to dwell
31:48on this
31:49no
31:49I think
31:50we should
31:50we've got
31:5119 minutes left
31:52and I'd love
31:52to unpack it
31:54well maybe
31:55you need
31:55no I'm kidding
31:56but
31:56but
31:57but
31:58it's about
31:59like
32:00are we just
32:00like
32:00we're all
32:01like kind of
32:01fundamentally
32:02sad and lonely
32:03and then
32:04we take
32:04we
32:05something's
32:06become totems
32:07about that
32:08loneliness
32:08and they
32:08become our
32:09Marvel avatar
32:11and we go
32:12if you fuck
32:13with
32:13my
32:14I'm gonna
32:15try to name
32:16a Marvel
32:17character
32:17fantastic
32:19girth
32:20girth girl
32:22I don't know
32:23about that one
32:24it's coming
32:25out
32:25it's
32:25it's
32:26it's good
32:27that one might
32:28be behind a paywall
32:28it's really good
32:30that might not
32:32be in major
32:32theaters
32:33incredible
32:33super
32:34I have no
32:36idea
32:36but my boy
32:37but the girthies
32:38will come after you
32:39is what you're saying
32:39if that were to occur
32:40that is such a bad
32:42name
32:43for a fan base
32:44I'm not saying
32:46that you started
32:46with gold
32:47I just mean like
32:48oh we've just
32:50dug it
32:51we just dug that hole
32:52but you know
32:54what
32:54what you described
32:55what you described
32:56the thing that I'm
32:56really more interested in
32:57that lifelong thing
32:58where something
32:59can actually
32:59heal you
33:00I first observed that
33:04when I was a kid
33:04looking at adults
33:05the music that still
33:07matters to me now
33:08is the music that
33:09I witnessed my father
33:10listen to in his car
33:11yeah
33:12and I would see like
33:14you know
33:15tension falling off
33:16you know like this
33:17grown man with a mustache
33:18you know
33:18and Sade like
33:19changes his mind
33:20you know
33:21he's just like
33:22okay now
33:23because Anita Baker's on
33:24or whatever
33:25you know
33:25yes
33:25yeah
33:26what's your first
33:28experience of
33:29music being on
33:31ambiently
33:31that was
33:32and
33:33starting to
33:35pick up
33:36pieces of that
33:37kind of affinity
33:37I mean
33:40my dad's a big
33:41music lover
33:42so
33:42if I was
33:44sort of
33:46kind of
33:47curled
33:48in the back seat
33:49of his
33:49used Porsche
33:51928
33:51that was
33:54that was
33:54it's weird
33:55it's not a
33:56family car
33:57but there you
34:02were
34:02family
34:02yeah but
34:03there I was
34:03uh-huh
34:08and
34:08but so
34:09but I do
34:10I have
34:11very vivid
34:12memories
34:12of like
34:13driving from
34:14Oklahoma
34:14to New Mexico
34:15and looking
34:17there would
34:17be a storm
34:18on the horizon
34:20and you know
34:21the land is very
34:21flat
34:22and there's
34:22these mesas
34:23in the distance
34:24and you're
34:24listening to
34:25the doors
34:25right
34:26every single
34:26storm
34:27and you're
34:27just like
34:28right
34:30yeah
34:32so that
34:33that
34:34I mean
34:34you know
34:35I
34:36that
34:37and
34:37it's not as
34:38romantic
34:39but Steely Dan
34:40there was so much
34:41Steely Dan
34:41oh man
34:42that's
34:43that's
34:44I'm glad
34:45that Steely Dan
34:46used to be
34:47such a
34:48it was a
34:49cultural divide
34:50it really was
34:52it was like
34:52do you like
34:54pavement
34:54or do you
34:55like Steely Dan
34:56oh wow
34:57and I feel
34:58like that
34:59like many
35:00things
35:01the internet
35:02has
35:03made blurry
35:06the provenance
35:07of anything
35:07and you're
35:08just like
35:08yeah
35:08I like them all
35:09I like everything
35:10and yeah
35:11yeah no
35:13it's
35:13being
35:14identified
35:15that used to be
35:17everything though
35:17like you
35:18you know
35:18the way you dress
35:20the way
35:20that little
35:21things were
35:22hints of identity
35:24that were like
35:25exclusive
35:25it used to be
35:28your whole fucking identity
35:29you couldn't wear
35:29the other thing
35:30oh my god
35:30if you
35:31it was your whole
35:32the friends
35:34that I
35:35friends I still have
35:37our entire existence
35:38was
35:39the movies we liked
35:41the music we liked
35:42the culture that we consumed
35:45and that was our entire identity
35:47and it was a shield
35:49and a world
35:51that
35:52that kept us
35:54afloat
35:55when we were not
35:56you know
35:57necessarily
35:57celebrated
35:59per se
36:00by the gen pop
36:02of our
36:03you know
36:03community
36:04it was like
36:04this
36:05this is everything
36:06it means everything
36:07yeah
36:08yeah
36:08yeah
36:09I
36:10I want to go back
36:11a little bit
36:12to this conversation
36:12because
36:13an aspect of your
36:14artistry
36:14that I'm really
36:15interested in
36:15you mentioned
36:17craft
36:19learning this
36:20from your aunt
36:20and uncle
36:21that you know
36:21the tools of your trade
36:23matter in a deep way
36:25and I wonder
36:26when
36:28for you
36:29the musicianship
36:29is you know
36:30one thing
36:30is like playing instruments
36:31arranging voices
36:33but there's this other thing
36:35which is just
36:36the studio
36:37I don't think
36:38there is another
36:39artist working today
36:41that I listen to
36:42with any frequency
36:42who is
36:43as precise as you are
36:44about sound
36:46and you know
36:47there's like
36:47acoustic
36:48and
36:49and a relationship
36:51to note
36:52like all of the
36:52the synth sounds
36:54in your music
36:54just are
36:55just like sublime
36:56were you
36:57how did you learn
36:59how to
37:00play the studio
37:01as opposed to
37:02play the guitar
37:04for instance
37:05I started
37:06really young
37:07and again
37:09thanks to my aunt
37:10and uncle
37:10and my
37:12my stepdad
37:12who was like
37:13an engineer
37:15by trade
37:16who
37:17ran a low
37:19rent
37:19sort of tax
37:20office
37:21he
37:26saw that
37:28I was obsessed
37:28with music
37:29it was the days
37:30before
37:30like
37:31okay you get
37:32a laptop
37:32and do
37:32the thing
37:33it was like
37:33you get a
37:34PC
37:35and
37:36an
37:37ADAT
37:38and
37:38yeah
37:40yeah
37:41that's right
37:42that's my
37:43ADAT boy
37:44up there
37:44you get an
37:46ADAT
37:46you get an
37:46audio
37:47interface
37:47you get all
37:48the weird
37:49things
37:49and you use
37:50let's give a
37:51shout out
37:52for Cakewalk
37:52Pro Audio
37:53so but it was
37:58like hard
37:59weird and weird
38:00to
38:01I mean
38:03I started
38:04with like a
38:04Tascam
38:04cassette
38:05four track
38:06but then it
38:06kind of was like
38:07oh I want to
38:07learn how to
38:08do this
38:09so I started
38:10when I was like
38:1115 in my bedroom
38:12and just built it
38:13out into a little
38:14recording studio
38:15with like early
38:16PC recording gear
38:18and
38:19so that was a
38:21more natural way
38:22for me to
38:23learn how to
38:25arrange
38:25learn how to
38:25create
38:26I mean I
38:27sometimes
38:28wish that
38:29I had just
38:30been in bands
38:31and been like
38:32oh
38:32you know
38:33me and the
38:34fellas
38:34are
38:35I say fellas
38:36I'm sorry
38:37there just weren't
38:38any other girls
38:39in Dallas
38:40in 1970
38:41who played
38:42music
38:42no but like
38:43I do kind of
38:45wish that
38:46I had done
38:47more of like
38:47the band
38:50thing very
38:51early on
38:52but instead
38:53of just like
38:53learning other
38:54people's songs
38:54and playing
38:55them at
38:55the talent
38:56show
38:56but
38:56so that
38:58was my
38:58that was my
38:59intro
39:01and then it
39:02just kept
39:03going and
39:03it got
39:03more
39:05more intense
39:07and like
39:08more expensive
39:09and more
39:10tweaky
39:10and more
39:11crazy
39:11but also
39:12I think
39:13afforded me
39:14a level
39:14of
39:15on one hand
39:17it's like
39:17kind of a little
39:18bit crippling
39:18but on the
39:19other hand
39:20because you're
39:20like I don't
39:21just sitting in
39:22this room
39:22by myself
39:23for a long
39:23time
39:23but on the
39:24other hand
39:25it afforded
39:26me an
39:26incredible
39:26amount
39:27of autonomy
39:27and made
39:28me I think
39:29take certain
39:30chances that I
39:30wouldn't necessarily
39:31have taken
39:32if there was
39:32like somebody
39:33in the room
39:34going
39:34you know
39:36good job
39:36or whatever
39:37that craft
39:39that attention
39:41to detail
39:42that it takes
39:43to deepen
39:45that aspect
39:46of your artistry
39:46I would imagine
39:47that that kind
39:49of knowledge
39:49would be the most
39:50affronted by
39:51what we see
39:51today
39:52everybody telling
39:53you that robots
39:54can do art
39:55that AI
39:57that all these
39:58other
39:58these other
39:59things that
40:00it seems like
40:01this
40:01civilization wide
40:03I don't know
40:06effort to
40:07assure us
40:08that actually
40:08you know
40:09somebody
40:09all that work
40:10could be done
40:11with a few
40:12strokes of a key
40:13I wonder
40:14do you ever
40:15feel
40:16do you feel
40:17pressure that
40:18the music
40:18business is
40:19changing
40:19that it
40:22sort of wants
40:22to edge out
40:23people who
40:23actually care
40:24about the
40:25making of
40:25things
40:25oh I love
40:28that this is
40:29your last
40:29question
40:29no no no
40:30not because
40:31I want it
40:32to end
40:32just because
40:32wow
40:33where do we
40:34start
40:35for a while
40:40it did seem
40:41that
40:42and I
40:43again
40:44I would
40:44I would
40:45sort of
40:47blame
40:48or
40:49make
40:52responsible
40:52market
40:53forces
40:53for a while
40:56popular
40:58big popular
41:00music
41:00did just
41:02sort of
41:02sound like
41:03things that
41:04AI could
41:04make
41:05so in
41:05a way
41:06I was
41:06like
41:06oh
41:07our
41:09bigger
41:09challenge
41:10as artists
41:10is to
41:11make sure
41:13that AI
41:14can't come
41:15for this
41:15you know
41:16I mean
41:16I'm thinking
41:16about like
41:17like
41:20are you
41:20no AI
41:21going to
41:21make
41:21D'Angelo
41:22voodoo
41:22like
41:23get fucked
41:24god damn
41:25it
41:25no
41:25no
41:26but
41:26I think
41:28there are
41:29really
41:29interesting
41:29artists
41:30like
41:30Holly
41:32Herndon
41:32who's
41:33doing a
41:33lot of
41:33really cool
41:34work
41:34and
41:35training
41:36her
41:36own
41:36AI
41:37and
41:37going
41:38okay
41:38this
41:38is
41:38a
41:39really
41:39powerful
41:39interesting
41:40tool
41:40I'm
41:41going to
41:41use
41:41it
41:42to
41:43I'm
41:43going to
41:44train
41:44it
41:45and
41:45make
41:46it
41:46work
41:46for me
41:47more
41:47or less
41:47and I
41:48think
41:48that's
41:48an
41:48interesting
41:49that's
41:49really
41:49fascinating
41:50and
41:51generative
41:52and
41:52cool
41:53I
41:55don't
41:57know
41:57I've
41:57definitely
41:58been
41:59on
41:59been
42:00and
42:01been
42:01like
42:01can
42:02you
42:02a little
42:03stuck
42:03on writing
42:04and been
42:04like
42:04on
42:05Sora
42:06like
42:06what
42:07would
42:07a
42:07Saint
42:07Vincent
42:08and I
42:08was
42:08just
42:08like
42:08you know
42:09what I
42:09mean
42:09you
42:10did
42:10that
42:10yeah
42:11I
42:11did
42:11I'll
42:11never
42:11do
42:12that
42:12no
42:12no
42:12no
42:12I
42:13was
42:14like
42:15that's
42:16what I
42:16sound
42:17like
42:17you know
42:19like
42:19but
42:19I
42:20think
42:20ultimately
42:20the
42:22thing
42:23that
42:24it
42:26can't
42:26you know
42:27the
42:28thing
42:28that it
42:29can't
42:29do
42:30and I
42:30don't
42:31I
42:33don't
42:33ultimately
42:34want to
42:34be like
42:35a
42:37Luddite
42:38even
42:38though
42:39I know
42:39that term
42:40gets
42:40misused
42:41and what
42:41that really
42:41means
42:42is like
42:42people
42:42who
42:42smashed
42:43the
42:43machines
42:43because
42:44they
42:44were
42:44mad
42:44about
42:46you know
42:46them
42:47potentially
42:47taking
42:47their
42:47jobs
42:48and not
42:49just
42:49someone
42:49who
42:49like
42:49can't
42:50use
42:50excel
42:50but
42:51but
42:53I
42:55think
42:55fucking
42:58ultimately
42:59that's not
43:02going to
43:02make a
43:02love
43:03supreme
43:03like
43:04that's
43:04not
43:04going to
43:04make
43:05a
43:06laughing
43:06stock
43:07that's
43:07not
43:07it
43:08takes
43:08a
43:09human
43:09filter
43:11who
43:11is
43:12I
43:12think
43:13now
43:13I'm
43:13just
43:13sounding
43:14like
43:14so
43:14like
43:15all
43:16it
43:16takes
43:16is
43:18heart
43:18but
43:19I
43:19do
43:20think
43:21and
43:22also
43:23I
43:23think
43:24that
43:24it's
43:24been
43:25a lot
43:26of
43:26the
43:27intelligence
43:29has been
43:31fed on
43:31a lot
43:32of slop
43:32so how's
43:33it
43:33going to
43:34know
43:34how's
43:36it
43:36going to
43:36surprise
43:36us
43:36how's
43:37it
43:37going to
43:37surprise
43:37us
43:38how's
43:38it
43:38going
43:38to
43:38go
43:39I
43:40don't
43:41know
43:41this
43:42is
43:42such
43:42a
43:42tricky
43:42question
43:43because
43:43I
43:43know
43:43that
43:43there
43:43are
43:44ways
43:44in
43:44which
43:45there
43:45are
43:45people
43:46who
43:46are
43:46a lot
43:46smarter
43:46than
43:47I
43:47am
43:47regarding
43:48this
43:48subject
43:49and
43:49feel
43:50very
43:52optimistic
43:53there
43:53are
43:53people
43:53who
43:53are
43:53doomsday
43:54sayers
43:56I
43:56think
43:57I'm
43:58a little
43:59bit
43:59in the
43:59middle
44:00in terms
44:01of
44:01I
44:02wish
44:03that
44:03AI
44:04would
44:06help
44:06me
44:06do
44:06the
44:07music
44:07jobs
44:08that
44:08I
44:08don't
44:08fucking
44:09want
44:09to
44:09do
44:09like
44:10train
44:11have
44:12my
44:12brain
44:13and
44:13then
44:13comp
44:13that
44:13vocal
44:14take
44:14you know
44:15what I
44:15mean
44:15so I
44:16don't
44:16but
44:16but I
44:17also
44:17don't
44:17think
44:17there's
44:18there
44:18are
44:18certain
44:19things
44:20that
44:20are
44:20there's
44:20no
44:21way
44:21to
44:22get
44:22past
44:23the
44:23hard
44:24labor
44:24of
44:25sitting
44:26with
44:26yourself
44:27sitting
44:27with
44:28your
44:28feelings
44:31and
44:31your
44:31moods
44:32and
44:32your
44:32insecurities
44:33and
44:33your
44:34joys
44:34and
44:34eventually
44:36putting
44:38enough
44:38pressure
44:39on it
44:39that it
44:40becomes
44:40a sort
44:41of
44:41diamond
44:41I
44:42don't
44:43know
44:43that
44:43there's
44:44a way
44:44around
44:44it
44:44and
44:44I
44:44also
44:45that's
44:46where
44:46that
44:47is
44:47what
44:48makes
44:49humanity
44:50kind of
44:52cool
44:53we can
44:55do
44:55that
44:55you know
44:56instead
44:57of just
44:57like
44:57explode
44:57people
44:58with
44:58bombs
44:59and
44:59stuff
44:59but
44:59I
45:01don't
45:01know
45:01there's
45:02a
45:02smarter
45:03person
45:03to
45:03ask
45:03about
45:04this
45:04no
45:04I
45:05mean
45:05as
45:05a
45:05review
45:06on
45:06humanity
45:06kind of
45:07cool
45:07is
45:07very
45:07generous
45:08so
45:09I
45:09appreciate
45:09no I
45:11echo
45:11your
45:12sentiments
45:13100%
45:14I'm gonna
45:15we have
45:16five minutes
45:17so I'm gonna
45:17ask like
45:17some of
45:18my
45:18favorites
45:18of maybe
45:19two of
45:19my
45:19favorites
45:20that I'm
45:20seeing
45:20here
45:21of our
45:21audience
45:21questions
45:22oh so
45:23you're
45:23not gonna
45:23do
45:23the
45:23thing
45:24where
45:24we
45:24awkwardly
45:26fumble
45:26with the
45:26microphone
45:27oh
45:27no
45:28someone
45:28doesn't
45:29know
45:29how
45:29to
45:29use
45:29it
45:29in
45:29talks
45:30like
45:30this
45:30right
45:30really
45:31they're
45:34here
45:34they're
45:35already
45:36here
45:36they texted
45:37the number
45:38up there
45:38that I
45:39can't
45:39see
45:39but they
45:39can
45:40and then
45:40it's
45:41here
45:41I'm gonna
45:42ask one
45:43here's a
45:43good one
45:44is the
45:45question
45:45what's
45:45your
45:45favorite
45:46part
45:46about
45:46Charleston
45:47did
45:49you guys
45:49see the
45:50message
45:50to
45:50explore
45:51Charleston
45:51I
45:52want
45:52to impress
45:52that
45:52we
45:53together
45:55Vincent
45:55and I
45:55just
45:56want
45:56to impress
45:56upon
45:57you
45:57if
45:57you
45:57have
45:58not
45:58yet
45:58explored
45:59Charleston
45:59now
46:00is
46:02the
46:02time
46:03New
46:03York
46:03yeah
46:04one
46:05of
46:05the
46:05big
46:05messages
46:05of
46:06tonight
46:06there
46:06was
46:07a
46:07flamingo
46:07in
46:07that
46:07ad
46:08which
46:08was
46:08like
46:08so
46:09confusing
46:09I
46:10thought
46:10it
46:10was
46:10Miami
46:10but
46:11whatever
46:11now I
46:13know
46:13new
46:13things
46:13about
46:13Charleston
46:14and that's
46:14why
46:14you
46:14should
46:14explore
46:15it
46:15exactly
46:16get
46:17to
46:17the
46:17bottom
46:17of
46:18it
46:18here's
46:18another
46:19question
46:19I
46:19played
46:19in
46:20Charleston
46:20once
46:20at
46:21a
46:21place
46:21that
46:21was
46:21like
46:21a
46:22mini
46:22mall
46:22and I
46:23played
46:23right
46:23before
46:24Nashville
46:24Pussy
46:25oh
46:26man
46:26I
46:27like
46:27y'all
46:28it's
46:28really
46:28beautiful
46:28wrought
46:29iron
46:29like
46:30nowhere
46:30else
46:31a
46:31lot
46:31of
46:32wrought
46:32iron
46:32yeah
46:32okay
46:33here's
46:36one
46:37that I
46:37liked
46:38it's
46:39about
46:39collaboration
46:39you've
46:41worked
46:41with
46:41everyone
46:42from
46:42David
46:42Byrne
46:43to
46:43Jack
46:43Antonoff
46:44who
46:44are
46:44your
46:44favorite
46:45collaborators
46:46and
46:47what
46:47have
46:47your
46:47collaborators
46:48taught
46:48you
46:49about
46:50this
46:51dialectic
46:51of
46:51surrender
46:52versus
46:52control
46:53okay
46:54okay
46:55I
46:57think
46:58one
46:59great
46:59thing
47:00about
47:00let's
47:00say
47:01Jack
47:01Antonoff
47:01is that
47:02he
47:03makes
47:04everything
47:04feel
47:04fun
47:05and light
47:05and easy
47:06so you're
47:07like
47:07I'm not
47:08working
47:08I'm just
47:09and I
47:10think
47:10that's
47:10an
47:11incredible
47:11skill
47:12as a
47:12producer
47:12one
47:14thing
47:15about
47:16David
47:16Byrne
47:17is that
47:19he's
47:19the
47:20best
47:21no
47:23is that
47:23but he
47:24is
47:25yeah
47:27you know
47:28but no
47:29but I
47:29mean
47:30I was
47:32it was
47:33funny
47:33this
47:33earlier
47:34this week
47:35I
47:36David's on
47:38tour right
47:38now
47:38with his
47:39new record
47:40and
47:40we
47:42emailed
47:43a little
47:44bit
47:44and he
47:44said
47:44that he
47:45had
47:45listened
47:46to the
47:46record
47:46that we
47:47made
47:47Love
47:48This
47:48Giant
47:48and he
47:49was like
47:50it was
47:50really
47:50thank you
47:51yeah
47:53and he
47:53was like
47:54oh
47:54we were
47:55sort of
47:55saying
47:56some of
47:58it's
47:58very
47:58emotional
47:59and
48:00moving
48:01and it
48:02really holds
48:03up
48:03and is
48:03interesting
48:04and I
48:04went back
48:05and listened
48:05to it
48:05and I
48:05was like
48:06this
48:07shit's
48:08weird
48:09like
48:09this is
48:10a wild
48:11what a
48:13wild
48:14cool
48:14record
48:15and of
48:16all the
48:16things
48:17and I
48:17know
48:17I'm not
48:17exactly
48:18answering
48:18your
48:19question
48:19but I
48:19think
48:20which
48:22maybe
48:24is not
48:24news
48:25to
48:25you
48:26but
48:26joy
48:28is not
48:28my
48:28go-to
48:29that's
48:30not
48:31where
48:31I
48:31don't
48:32I
48:32have
48:32a
48:32harder
48:32time
48:33accessing
48:34joy
48:34than
48:34the
48:35sort
48:35of
48:35river
48:35of
48:35rage
48:36that
48:36just
48:37you
48:37know
48:37that
48:38runs
48:38through
48:39us
48:39all
48:39yeah
48:39right
48:40is
48:40there
48:41but
48:41David
48:42David
48:44has
48:44brings
48:45joy
48:45and
48:46has
48:46joy
48:47and
48:47allows
48:48you
48:48to
48:48experience
48:50joy
48:50in a
48:52way
48:52that
48:53is
48:53so
48:54deep
48:54so
48:55thoughtful
48:57so
48:59just
49:05just
49:05just
49:05just
49:05just
49:06the
49:07the
49:08best
49:08just
49:09the
49:09best
49:10you
49:10know
49:10so
49:10I
49:11think
49:12getting
49:15to
49:16to
49:16at first
49:17vicariously
49:17experience
49:18joy
49:19by being
49:19in his
49:20orbit
49:20and seeing
49:21how he
49:21works
49:21and
49:22you know
49:23I now
49:23also bring
49:24a binder
49:25to rehearsals
49:26with all
49:27lyric sheets
49:27and you know
49:28I am also
49:28have took some
49:30organizational
49:30tips from him
49:31but also
49:32the way that
49:34he brings
49:34joy
49:35to the
49:36world
49:37is
49:42just
49:43just
49:44magic
49:45I just
49:45there's
49:46I don't
49:46I don't
49:48it's
49:48simultaneously
49:49inconceivable
49:51to my
49:52human
49:52form
49:53but also
49:54you know
49:55deeply
49:56deeply
49:57infectious
49:57so
49:57that's
49:58I don't
49:59think we're
49:59going to
49:59improve
49:59upon that
50:00thank you
50:00so much
50:01for that
50:01thank you
50:01we're
50:03going to
50:03leave it
50:03there
50:04thank you
50:04so much
50:05thank you
50:06thank you
50:06thank you
50:07she's
50:07really
50:08so
50:08thank you
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