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00:00President Mazzola, thank you so much for joining us.
00:06Thank you very much for having me here.
00:08It's been a long week. It's Wednesday, but it feels like UNGA, everything is packed.
00:12Now we're going to talk about Europe. We'll put the spotlight on defense, on, of course, the priorities for the European Union, some of the things that are going on.
00:19But you were at the UN yesterday listening to President Trump and that speech where he talked a lot about Europe.
00:26What were you thinking?
00:27Well, my first thought is that because I host and chair quite a lot of meetings like that, is that I hope that if I had to do that, the teleprompters would work for a guest.
00:38Number one.
00:39Secondly, was that it's refreshing not to have so much scripted speeches, because I think conversations where you can explain your thoughts are so much better received, whether you agree with them or not.
00:55I would focus on two takeaways from yesterday's speech. First of all, it's defense and energy, because those are directly linked to how we as a continent have evolved over the last years, but also where we can still do much more.
01:09First of all, on defense, Russia's invasion of Ukraine brought us up to a very brutal reality, to the fact that we were not prepared.
01:19We were overly dependent. Our allies were not, let's say, convinced that we could be as united as in fact we were.
01:28Since then, defense expenditure has shot up investment and also investment in our own capacities to defend our own.
01:37Secondly, on energy, we were almost completely reliant on Russian gas.
01:42We continue to work towards a complete uncoupling, finding alternative sources, not letting go of our ambitions, but understanding that it's always better to be dependent on allies than on non-reliable neighbors, no matter how much closer they are.
02:00And I think those calls by the current U.S. administration, by President Trump, and also an understanding by our leaders, our prime ministers, heads of state, in saying, you know what?
02:13Maybe we have not done enough. We've been pushing forward or delaying things that we should have done decades or years ago are now being pushed into action.
02:23And I would take that as a win, but also as an objective for us to reach by being extremely, you know, proud of how we do things, but also understanding where we could do things better.
02:33President, when you look at defense spending, it's a huge game changer for Europe.
02:38What do you say to those that worry, actually, that there's too much defense spending focus, which takes away, you know, focus on climate change or nature financing?
02:47Well, this is a real debate that's happening in different member states, different countries, members of the European Union.
02:53There are some that have a tradition of spending much more on defense, some that have for many years not spent, even though they should have.
03:02And I think there is a common understanding that there is a need to step up, whether you are a country that has an eastern flank with an unreliable neighbor or a country that has long forgotten how to beef up its military capacity, its armies, its navies.
03:23And that's a conversation that we needed to have. The timing, I guess, was done.
03:30I mean, we had to have it this summer. Whether it should have been prompted earlier is a question that we should ask ourselves and not anyone else, in a way, should answer for us.
03:40But it is one that is a cold reality, but an understanding.
03:44Now, where does the money come from? We're talking about how to make a continent that should be much more competitive, that should be much more open for business.
03:53That should make it much easier for people to grow, to scale up, to invest, that our AI graduates stay in Europe and actually continue to showcase the best we have, the best talent we have on our continent, that our universities continue to grow.
04:09How do you make sure that education and health remain free?
04:13This is a big debate in the European Union and one that is non-negotiable.
04:19So, we see it more as an incentive to grow our economies, even because you invest in defence, even because you invest in companies that help you grow your defence capacity, in order to compensate for the lack of competitiveness.
04:34It is not a, we take money away from there in order to invest in another area.
04:39It's where, what's the waste? How much money do we waste between one country and another because of regulatory burdens, things we are scaling back right now because of the necessity to do that?
04:50Two, how do we make sure that we invest in most highest standards in education and health while giving our citizens comfort?
04:58That's all our, you know, we are elected politicians and I look back to last year's election, which sent a very clear message to us that citizens want their life to be fairer.
05:09They want it to be safer. They want it to be ultimately easier.
05:12If we can't deliver on that by making them safer, also easier and fairer with a job and a roof over the head, then we would not be doing our job well.
05:22Has Europe done enough to be more competitive?
05:24No. Europe has done much, much more.
05:28Why not?
05:28I think for many years, and I think we felt a lull of security, a lull of, I would say from a political perspective, our voters would always vote for us to remain in office, etc.
05:44That is not the case.
05:45This is an appeal, a plea from our citizens that we're not taking their concerns seriously.
05:54We went far too fast in imposing regulatory burdens, which were noble in course, but absolutely the opposite and unfeasible in their rollout.
06:06We find ourselves with so many barriers between trying to move capital from one country to another that when we look over, and I spend a lot of time here in the United States and also speaking to investors who want to invest in what for them is the largest growing market and a very open market for them,
06:28So I think we have, I would say finally, finally, especially because the political landscape has changed, recognized that we went too far too fast.
06:45However, but we managed to overcome previously impossible things.
06:52So during the pandemic, we realized that we needed to become much more efficient, much more streamlined.
06:58Solidarity needed to be shown.
07:00Since the Russian invasion, we realized that the so-called energy union that we thought we would have did not exist at all.
07:06We realized that our defense union was being stalled by completely different standards for military, for example, defense equipment between one country and another.
07:17If you compare in the U.S., you have around 30 types of different weaponry.
07:24In the European Union, we have different licensing that add up to 75.
07:28How are we going to be competitive and how are we going to make sure that we present ourselves as a good market and as somewhere that you can invest in?
07:39And that's something we're asking ourselves.
07:41In a month from now, we are going to be adopting legislation that will significantly ease the burden.
07:47And we will be able to say that we're open for business, perhaps a little bit more open than we were before.
07:52And are politicians fully on board with that across the European Union?
07:57Have they taken, were one on, one year on from actually the Draghi report?
08:02Yeah, I think we have no choice.
08:05Is there differences of opinion?
08:06Of course, I run a parliament and I chair it.
08:10One of 720 colleagues from 27 different countries, from eight different political groups.
08:18And these are groups that have, of course, different ideas about how to get there.
08:23But when I said before that our citizens, people who elected us, people who we represent, even those who did not vote for us, told us, make our lives, please, simpler.
08:35Make it easier and make it safer.
08:39That is not so much to ask.
08:41And if you tell any of my colleagues as to whether they can deliver that, I think the answer would be a resounding yes.
08:50President, let me talk to you about the trade deal, on the EU-US trade deal.
08:53I mean, given that EU has held a trade power with the US for a long time, I mean, there's been so much criticism for the 15%.
09:00Is Europe's better time used to actually try and focus domestically, rather than squabble over the 15%?
09:09Yeah, we squabble quite a lot.
09:11We also tend to undersell results.
09:14We do things differently, and I think that we could learn a lesson or two as to how we have really managed successfully, not only in making sure that we have a trade relationship that can work with the United States, which is by far our large trading partner, and this goes both ways,
09:37but also in seeing how we can go faster in adopting trade deals with different parts of the world.
09:44It cannot take between 10 to 25 years for a trade deal to come into force, and that's a reality.
09:52It's not just a number I just pulled out of a hat.
09:54That's how long it has taken for the negotiations for Mercosur.
09:58That's how long it continues to take to make sure that our trade deal, for example, with Canada, is fully implemented, even though it's about 97% there.
10:07Same goes for Australia and New Zealand, but big success with India, for example.
10:12So, of course, we would like to have zero tariffs.
10:15If you ask me what would have been perfect, it's that there would be no tariffs between our continent and the United States.
10:22We are the world's largest trading partners.
10:25Our consumers depend on the U.S., and the U.S. consumers also depend very largely on our products.
10:33If you see today what is tariffed and what is not, the number tips very much favorably over what is not tariffed.
10:41So, I think, besides squabbling as to whether this was a good deal or not, and, of course, it will be scrutinized closely in the parliament,
10:50because that's our role, that will come to us by the end of the year,
10:53but it's also an understanding that our businesses, our investors, our companies on both sides of the Atlantic need predictability,
11:04that market volatility is bad for everyone, that we need to see how we can invest better, how we can be smoother,
11:14how we can make sure that we don't lose capital across the Atlantic, but perhaps keep it in order to invest and grow.
11:22So, I'd turn it around and say, yes, we squabble, but at the end of the day, we have also tended to undersell our successes.
11:32We just need to get better at doing that.
11:34Do you think the parliament will give its blessing to the trade deal?
11:37I can't preempt what my colleagues will do.
11:39There is, of course, different viewpoints.
11:41Some would say that we need to see amendments, some would say, who say that this is, you know, better than we could have had,
11:49or some would say this is worse than we should have had, and then it comes to numbers.
11:54But I'm fairly optimistic that we will have an agreement without preempting what the outcome will be.
11:59And, President, we have a lot of chief executives.
12:01So, what do you think the role for the private sector is in the EU achieving its goals?
12:07Well, it is the same as our role of succeeding in delivering on what our responsibilities are.
12:14If today we are being asked to make things easier for you to operate in the European Union, then that's our job to do so.
12:22Because that translates into slowing the loss of jobs.
12:28We have seen big loss, for example, in the automotive sector.
12:32Questions that we are asking, how will our pharmaceutical industries continue to thrive?
12:38That if the semiconductor industry is dependent on European products, that continues to be the case.
12:47That if we are going to completely reinvent our energy diversification, that we also rope in the United States in making sure we manage that.
12:57And that was also part of the big discussion that we had also with the United States administration that I have with my colleagues in Congress.
13:07As I have, let's say, a lot, you can see a lot of alignment there.
13:12So, I would say we're dependable.
13:16We're boring sometimes.
13:17But we're also predictable.
13:19And I think that perhaps better than before, where we would like to say, we spent a lot of time saying, we're the best, you should do it like us.
13:28Or, you know, listen to us, we know better.
13:32I think the time for that is over.
13:34That parochial attitude did not help.
13:38But rather, where we went too fast, we should analyse.
13:43Where we went too far, we need to be honest.
13:45And it's this sense of honesty that those who place me in my position of responsibility, my voters, would like to see.
13:54That sense of, you know what, maybe we could have done that better.
13:58Or, with us, you know that we're going to take a course of what is value-based, moral clarity, but with an understanding of what is needed for our continent to go forward.
14:11We'll never be apologetic for the way we think, we do things, but it is an understanding that our citizens are appealing for us to be better.
14:20And being better is always a goal.
14:22I don't know whether to be outraged or excited that some people think Europeans are boring.
14:26But I imagine you're European, you can, you know, Pam, but you're Italian, you're...
14:32There's always something going on with the Italians.
14:36We're in Mediterranean.
14:38I think we can sort of call ourselves a little bit more exciting.
14:41I 100% agree.
14:42I think we can say that.
14:44President, when you speak to investors, I mean, do they bring up regulation or do they bring up something else, like security?
14:52I want to ask about Ukraine as well.
14:54But what's the number...
14:54I like to think, you know, I tend to count as to when the word regulation comes up as soon as a CEO walks into my office.
15:04It's usually within, like, the third or fourth sentence after hello.
15:10I think it's an understandable request for them to be able to understand why we have tens of thousands of pages of legislation every mandate,
15:22whereas there's less than a fraction of that in the U.S.,
15:26where we have acronyms that are completely ununderstandable,
15:32where an election is run on what does CSDD mean,
15:41but one where I can be proud to say that in a couple of weeks we will vote,
15:46yes, it will take over a thousand amendments that I need to chair over,
15:50is that we will significantly reduce burdens for companies that have been asking us to do so.
15:58For them to be able to do business with us,
16:01for them to be able to keep opening factories in the European Union,
16:05for manufacturing to continue to grow,
16:07for jobs, especially in underserved areas,
16:11to regain traction.
16:14You know, you see countries that joined the European Union the last 20 years
16:19that have done amazing things in terms of economic growth.
16:24The last thing we would need is to see backsliding because of our own fault.
16:30You know, we can blame externalities and say this is not us,
16:33but you know, time for that is over.
16:36And if we are able to say, look, here we could do better,
16:40and that's what we will manage to show.
16:42A couple of hours ago, we voted on huge simplification for the agriculture industry.
16:48We have been asked for this for years,
16:52and we as a parliament have said we need a legislative proposal to push it through.
16:56We managed to do it in a matter of weeks.
16:58So when the political will is there, and mark my words, it is, we will deliver.
17:03President, just a final question actually on Ukraine,
17:05because I think you've just come back from Ukraine, from Kyiv.
17:08Yes, on Thursday, yeah.
17:08I mean, do you believe that Ukraine could join the EU by 2030,
17:12like some have suggested?
17:14Yeah, I think we, our principle has to be,
17:17is that enlargement is a win-win.
17:18I was involved in the negotiations of my country's entry into the European Union.
17:24It took over a decade,
17:25and I cannot begin to imagine what the Ukrainians are doing under bombs that are falling,
17:34as I saw myself every day in Kyiv and in the larger cities.
17:39What I would like to see is a commitment on behalf of our continent,
17:45where if you see speed being shown by a country,
17:48to join the European Union,
17:52a club that is not just an economic club, but a political one,
17:56that is, is not about charity, but strategically wise to do so,
18:00then our doors should be flung wide open.
18:03I've just come from a meeting with all the leaders of the Western Balkan countries,
18:08and that's exactly the message I gave to them,
18:10that if a country has completed all the technical steps,
18:14and it's merit-based, and it needs those technical steps to be achieved,
18:17how can we look at them in the eye and tell them,
18:21wait, not now.
18:23I myself can't do that.
18:25And that's a commitment that there I can,
18:27you asked me before, will there be majorities?
18:30There's a huge majority in the European Parliament precisely for that.
18:33And in Ukraine, I must also say,
18:35beginning, maybe tying it to the first point we had,
18:38is that I'm very encouraged by the discussions between President Trump
18:42and President Zelensky yesterday.
18:44I think that after many months,
18:46we could see that there is a full alignment
18:50as to where Europe and the United States stand on this issue.
18:54It's taken us a while to get there,
18:56but I would say, as someone who has been there last week,
19:00and the sense of fatigue,
19:03but inspiration that the Ukrainians give us,
19:07because this is a few hours away from my own house,
19:10that they are fighting for our insecurity,
19:12and that if we don't recognize that,
19:14then where are we as leaders in the world
19:16of recognizing responsibility that is on our shoulders?
19:18Thank you very much.
19:19Thank you very much.
19:20Thank you very much.
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