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Exploration of Gavin McInnes' transition from VICE co-founder to leader of far-right Proud Boys group, told through interviews tracing his radicalization after leaving progressive media empire he helped build.
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00:06:05Ele é um misterioso figure.
00:06:07Ele é um grande, trágico arte a sua vida.
00:06:11Todo mundo que conhece ele tem um teorio
00:06:14sobre o que aconteceu com ele,
00:06:16por que ele ficou radicalizado.
00:06:18Ele ficou radicalizado?
00:06:19É isso tudo só uma brincadeira que já foi tão longe
00:06:22ou não foi tão longe para haver um punchline.
00:06:26Gavins Life tem a craziest casta de characters.
00:06:29Tem a Tolstoi-level de pessoas.
00:06:33Nós temos que conhecer todos.
00:06:36Uh, como é que ela está?
00:06:37Come on in.
00:06:38Ok, ela está.
00:06:41Come on in, old friend.
00:06:49Hello!
00:06:50Hi!
00:06:51How are you?
00:06:52It's good to see you.
00:06:53Alright, dude.
00:06:55Hook you up.
00:06:56Well, my name is Santiago Steli.
00:06:58Worked at Vice for almost seven years.
00:07:01So, do you know if you're chatting with Gavin yet,
00:07:04or no, you don't?
00:07:05No, I've been...
00:07:06I've been emailing with him,
00:07:07and it has been a little contentious.
00:07:10He's a little, like, you know, suspicious
00:07:12about this being a, you know, hit piece on him.
00:07:15Like, I'm not sure about this,
00:07:16and I'm pretty suspicious of you.
00:07:18And I've been like, I get it.
00:07:20There's, you know, no easy way.
00:07:22I was like, if I do it...
00:07:24If I lean too hard in one way,
00:07:25like, I'm too soft on Gavin,
00:07:26then the fucking...
00:07:28then I'll get, you know,
00:07:29canceled by the canceled kids.
00:07:31Yeah.
00:07:32And if I'm too hard on Gavin,
00:07:33then I'll get fucking, like,
00:07:34gang stalked by the Goon Squad.
00:07:36Um, but if I do this just right,
00:07:38I can piss off both of them.
00:07:44Audrey, can we see the second look, please?
00:07:46Hey, we just arrived in St. Martin,
00:07:48and we're gonna go get high.
00:07:50Watch my confidence skyrocket after this.
00:07:53You know, even back in the 90s,
00:07:55uh, Gavin directed his provocative efforts
00:07:58to no small degree towards
00:08:00the sort of political left,
00:08:02what was called at the time,
00:08:03political correctness.
00:08:04It was, like, really underground
00:08:06political correctness.
00:08:07He was rebelling against that,
00:08:09and that's what his,
00:08:11the voice of Vice became,
00:08:12this crazy, irreverent,
00:08:14controversial, shocking stuff.
00:08:20Gavin was the heart and soul
00:08:22of Vice magazine.
00:08:23He was Vice.
00:08:27The Vice Guide to...
00:08:28Eating pussy.
00:08:29Yeah.
00:08:30Well, cause there was the,
00:08:31and then there was the Vice Guide
00:08:32to oral sex on guys.
00:08:34And I remember reading that,
00:08:35and it was written by Gavin,
00:08:36and I was like,
00:08:37this is hilarious.
00:08:38This is good advice.
00:08:40Right?
00:08:41I just had never seen anything like this.
00:08:43One night, I was a passerby,
00:08:45this bar.
00:08:46Jesse Pearson came rolling up with Gavin.
00:08:50Jesse said,
00:08:51Amy, this is Gavin from Vice.
00:08:53And I said,
00:08:54oh, my God.
00:08:55Hi, I love Vice.
00:08:56And he, like,
00:08:57he took, like,
00:08:58the side of the sweatpants shorts
00:09:00and, like, pulled it over
00:09:01to show me his penis.
00:09:03Mm-hmm.
00:09:04Yeah.
00:09:05And he said,
00:09:06hi, nice to meet you.
00:09:07And I was like,
00:09:08there's my new best friend.
00:09:11So again,
00:09:12this is 2000.
00:09:13Now it is,
00:09:14what is it?
00:09:152023.
00:09:16Yeah, yeah.
00:09:17Now some would say
00:09:18if you meet someone
00:09:19and they immediately
00:09:20whip out their dick,
00:09:21that's not, that's not
00:09:22that is frowned upon.
00:09:23Not allowed to do that no more.
00:09:24Yeah.
00:09:25But when we were
00:09:2620-year-old maniacs,
00:09:27Yeah.
00:09:28It was delightful.
00:09:30The first time I met him,
00:09:31he was see Kyle in the mailman.
00:09:33And I was like,
00:09:34and I laughed
00:09:35because it was fucking funny.
00:09:36But it was funny because
00:09:37he wasn't a Nazi.
00:09:38It was like,
00:09:39it was an insanely outlandish thing
00:09:40for someone,
00:09:41like, a dude in a Fred Perry shirt
00:09:43in, like, Williamsburg
00:09:44to be doing.
00:09:45But now, anytime, you know,
00:09:46anytime I mention that,
00:09:47it's like,
00:09:48it's like, oh, the red flags,
00:09:49you know?
00:09:50Now he says things
00:09:51that I don't agree with,
00:09:52like, strongly don't agree with.
00:09:54Yeah.
00:09:55And, um,
00:09:56I don't know how to,
00:09:58you know,
00:09:59what do I do with these
00:10:00two different things?
00:10:01It's like,
00:10:02Gavin's kind of responsible
00:10:03for my, like,
00:10:04he hired me
00:10:05and was my earliest mentor.
00:10:06And then, you know,
00:10:07wasn't there forever,
00:10:08but I was like,
00:10:09I can't burn my youth.
00:10:11He was really nice to me,
00:10:13like, as a young man.
00:10:14And he was, you know,
00:10:15really encouraging of,
00:10:16like, my writing
00:10:17and things like that.
00:10:18There's dimension to that.
00:10:23Anyway, I don't know.
00:10:24I don't know if he's gonna see this
00:10:25as some sort of, like,
00:10:26weird betrayal.
00:10:27This is a man who values
00:10:28insane loyalty among friends.
00:10:31I don't know if he's gonna be,
00:10:32feel betrayed
00:10:33or if he's just gonna come out,
00:10:34you know, with the knives.
00:10:37Yell at me for getting divorced.
00:10:38Yeah.
00:10:41Since agreeing with myself
00:10:42that I'm going to do this,
00:10:43because, you know,
00:10:44suddenly, like, at night,
00:10:46instead of waking up
00:10:47and being like,
00:10:48oh, what have I done with my life?
00:10:49I'll, like, wake up and be like,
00:10:50oh, what does Gavin think
00:10:51I've done with my life, you know?
00:10:52I don't know.
00:10:54We'll find out.
00:11:07He grew up in Ottawa.
00:11:08His parents are Scottish.
00:11:10So, this is where we go to start.
00:11:14Bowel.
00:11:16What up?
00:11:17What up?
00:11:24Man, that fucking Tim O's was popping.
00:11:27I can't imagine working there
00:11:30on a morning shift.
00:11:32I should have tip jar.
00:11:33He's always been the funny kid.
00:11:47A funny guy.
00:11:48Very, very amusing.
00:11:50Yeah.
00:11:51Very quick-witted.
00:11:52We often say humor
00:11:54often carries the story
00:11:57way better than,
00:11:58you know, heavy discipline.
00:12:00Teachers often felt
00:12:02that he was destructive.
00:12:05Gavin was famously
00:12:06a women's studies major.
00:12:07Classic 90s liberal arts thing.
00:12:10It's pretty hard to get
00:12:11further left than that,
00:12:12you know?
00:12:14So, one of my favorite stories
00:12:15about Gavin,
00:12:16you know,
00:12:17given everything that's happened.
00:12:21He's sitting in the university.
00:12:22It's a women's studies class
00:12:24and a teacher's like,
00:12:25hey, women have to
00:12:26take their place in the world
00:12:27and be independent
00:12:29and not be looking for husbands.
00:12:31You know, some girl
00:12:32puts up her hands and says,
00:12:33you know, but it's so hard
00:12:34because if we are like that,
00:12:35then guys won't want to date us.
00:12:38And the teacher points to Gavin
00:12:40and says,
00:12:41well, that's not true.
00:12:42What about a guy like Gavin?
00:12:45And the girl goes,
00:12:48no, I'm talking about real guys.
00:12:52And Gavin told me that story.
00:12:54it had to be like 10 years after it happened.
00:12:57He was still upset about it.
00:12:59So, I mean, yeah,
00:13:01maybe there's a seed there.
00:13:02Maybe that girl planted the seeds
00:13:04of everything that followed.
00:13:10I can't do anything.
00:13:11Let's shoot.
00:13:13Bird in the light for Ranger Steve.
00:13:14Fuck.
00:13:15Well.
00:13:24My name is Steve Durand.
00:13:25I'm a free spirit
00:13:26who's done a bunch of crazy shit.
00:13:32Gavin.
00:13:33I went to high school with him.
00:13:34I met him when I was like
00:13:35probably 16 or 17.
00:13:37He was a leader for better,
00:13:38for worse.
00:13:39People followed him just because they wanted to see
00:13:42what fucking insane disaster
00:13:45or hilarity would follow him around.
00:13:53It was like,
00:13:54I saw Gavin commit to bits at the office
00:13:55just for the couple of years that I was around.
00:13:57You know,
00:13:58two to three month jokes.
00:13:59Like whenever I'd be using the scanning computer
00:14:01next to me,
00:14:02he'd come over like he was grooming me.
00:14:04Be like, you know,
00:14:05there's,
00:14:06have you ever heard of these websites
00:14:07where you can see men kissing?
00:14:08It's like, you know,
00:14:09it's like, that's, that's okay.
00:14:10If you like looking at that, you know,
00:14:11and it was just,
00:14:12it would just go on,
00:14:13you know.
00:14:14Yeah.
00:14:15Taking on a character and going deep,
00:14:16deep, deep into that character sketch.
00:14:18Never leaving it.
00:14:19Becoming it.
00:14:20And like, yeah,
00:14:21method acting basically.
00:14:22Yeah.
00:14:23With no, you know,
00:14:24no stage or no camera.
00:14:25Then you,
00:14:26you told me about your guest Thespian Nights.
00:14:27I was like, oh Christ.
00:14:28Right.
00:14:29Yeah.
00:14:30This has been,
00:14:31this has been his,
00:14:32his bread and butter.
00:14:34He and Steve had this thing called Thespian Nights.
00:14:36where they were like, oh yeah,
00:14:38one of us would call the other.
00:14:39And we'd be like,
00:14:40yo, Thespian Nights tonight.
00:14:41And they'd be like, yeah, let's do it.
00:14:42I was a special needs kid with a bad leg.
00:14:45And he was my counselor.
00:14:47Yeah.
00:14:48Or my big brother,
00:14:49like a social worker that,
00:14:50you know,
00:14:51would take me on weekends.
00:14:52And like,
00:14:53we'd spend like a whole 24 hour period
00:14:55in those characters.
00:14:5624.
00:14:57Oh yeah.
00:14:58Yeah.
00:14:59Like we'd go to sleep.
00:15:00Like, okay, good night, Jimmy.
00:15:01And like,
00:15:02wake up in those characters.
00:15:03Like really,
00:15:04really go deep.
00:15:09Um.
00:15:11I mean,
00:15:12he made up most of the shit
00:15:13because he was just a crazy,
00:15:14crazy dude.
00:15:15I have to say.
00:15:17I mean,
00:15:23it's fun.
00:15:24It's just make believe, right?
00:15:26Yeah.
00:15:27It's just like playing,
00:15:28playing dress up, right?
00:15:33One of the grand theories
00:15:34about why Gavin went,
00:15:36the way he did is,
00:15:38it was basically a joke
00:15:39that's,
00:15:40he's taken way too far
00:15:42without the punchline or payoff
00:15:43or anything like that.
00:15:45And they think when,
00:15:46people who didn't know him,
00:15:47normal people,
00:15:48hear that,
00:15:49they think there's like,
00:15:50oh, you're just,
00:15:51that's an excuse.
00:15:52Like, of course,
00:15:53it's not a joke.
00:15:54He's been doing it for like,
00:15:55fucking 14 years.
00:15:56But for those who knew Gavin,
00:15:57it's like,
00:15:58that is 100% plausible.
00:15:59He could be in a character,
00:16:00you know,
00:16:01even still.
00:16:07Let me interrupt that too.
00:16:09There's an email here.
00:16:10I'm reaching out
00:16:11because I'm doing a research
00:16:12for a CBC doc
00:16:13on a topic you know well.
00:16:14Gavin McInnes,
00:16:15spelled wrong,
00:16:16of course.
00:16:17This pertains to that whole notion
00:16:19of like,
00:16:20how I'm the guru
00:16:21of the evil alt-right.
00:16:23And I think that's what the documentary
00:16:24is going to be about.
00:16:25Now, Montreal is a very unique town.
00:16:40It's irreverent,
00:16:41it's stupid,
00:16:42it's fun.
00:16:43There's something sort of lackadaisical about Montreal
00:16:44that I think is a big part of the magazine.
00:16:47Vice was very DIY at the start.
00:16:49Three genuine friends
00:16:50that kind of grew up
00:16:51with punk rock ethics
00:16:52and DIY ethics.
00:16:53Sourouche Alvey
00:16:54Sourouche Alvey
00:16:55is kind of the brains
00:16:56of the whole initial thing, right?
00:16:57They've told the story
00:16:58of those guys for a long time.
00:16:59They're on the dole,
00:17:00they've got some money
00:17:01and they just start this thing.
00:17:02They start making The Voice.
00:17:03The Voice of Montreal was an idea
00:17:17that I started in 1992.
00:17:21Saying that they started it,
00:17:23saying that they created it,
00:17:24it's a false.
00:17:25It's not true.
00:17:28Isso não é verdade.
00:17:36Em 1996, eles me disseram,
00:17:40eu quero começar a nossa magia.
00:17:42Eu disse, ok, bom.
00:17:44Se você quiser fazer a magia, você pode começar a sua magia,
00:17:46mas você não pode usar a voz.
00:17:48Mas no primeiro livro que eles publicaram,
00:17:50eles disseram, a voz é morta
00:17:52e não muda para a voz.
00:17:54Eles fizeram a voz logo, mas parece exatamente o mesmo.
00:18:07Parece que se você pegar isso,
00:18:09remove a letra O, e você tem a voz.
00:18:12E a voz é tudo que não pode fazer na vida.
00:18:16Isso vai chegar pessoas a atenção.
00:18:19Eu sou meio que a residente goof,
00:18:21então.
00:18:22Por quê?
00:18:23Bom, eu sou uma mania,
00:18:24você sabe?
00:18:25A madman na caja,
00:18:26eu gosto de ver myself.
00:18:30Não há dúvida em minha mente
00:18:32que a mais interessante e engajada
00:18:36e provocada parte do Vice
00:18:38foi o que foi produzido por Gavin.
00:18:43All do Vice Magazine era Gavin McInnes.
00:18:45Ele escreveu o histórico,
00:18:46ele oversaw todo o que era em uma série.
00:18:49ontem meio de gav Ohmão всё buying,
00:18:51tipo anders.
00:18:59Ele era tipo uma coisa querida,
00:19:01um homem maior,
00:19:03que em alguém.
00:19:05Pennsylvania era um pincos ou merda,
00:19:06ones deveria ser mais importantes.
00:19:08Uma emoção o PSC
00:19:11da televisão vai ir com values
00:19:16de digamos se opげ outra ajuda.
00:19:18Se você não vai ficar com alguém, se você não vai ficar com alguém,
00:19:21por que você não vai ficar aqui?
00:19:23Por que você não vai ficar aqui, você não vai ficar aqui?
00:19:26E Gavin fez isso, ele foi muito bom.
00:19:30Eu lembro que havia um do e não,
00:19:32uma criança,
00:19:33ela tinha esses, tipo, purple pants.
00:19:36O don't foi,
00:19:37''nice purple pants, you stupid bitch.''
00:19:41Você tinha que admitir que era engraçado,
00:19:43que era engraçado, que era engraçado,
00:19:45e, tipo,
00:19:46ele foi muito bom para isso.
00:19:48E ele queria que as pessoas gostassem
00:19:51no modo que possivelmente pudessem.
00:19:56Gaven estava, eu diria,
00:19:59divertindo.
00:20:00Eu não sentia que ele era uma pessoa muito séria.
00:20:05Eu não conhecia ele como uma pessoa violenta.
00:20:09Hava uma linguagem violenta para a diversidade,
00:20:13porque nós somos um grupo de conhecimentos diversos.
00:20:17Então, ele não era assim,
00:20:18não era isso, no tempo.
00:20:23A vice foi certamente importante em Montreal.
00:20:26Você sabe,
00:20:26todos queriam escolher uma copia.
00:20:27Eles sempre esperavam que isso fosse crescer.
00:20:30e oportunidades surgiram,
00:20:32e eles estavam muito rápidos para eles.
00:20:33Então, eu estou aqui no ponto de vista em Montreal,
00:20:39e estou dizendo adiante à cidade.
00:20:41E por último tempo,
00:20:43nós vamos para Nova York,
00:20:44em cerca de uma hora,
00:20:45e estou olhando para essa tristeza
00:20:48de uma porta.
00:20:51E essa bridge vai ser a Brooklyn Bridge.
00:20:54E a outra coisa é a outra.
00:20:56De um lado para uma isla,
00:20:58de uma outra.
00:21:00Fui.
00:21:03Oh, meu!
00:21:05Oh, f***.
00:21:06Isso é meu f***.
00:21:07F***, é meu f***, é meu f***.
00:21:07F***, f***.
00:21:08F***, f***.
00:21:10Quando eu first showed up
00:21:11at Vice,
00:21:12foi deixou uma grande grande
00:21:13em Montreal e Toronto.
00:21:15Todo mundo sabia sobre isso.
00:21:17O VICE tinha ido para New York, foi a história.
00:21:20Nós é a VICE Magazine, e nós vamos para New York City!
00:21:24Eles foram homens, nós conseguimos fazer isso juntos.
00:21:26Foi muito legal.
00:21:29Isso é incrível.
00:21:31Não exatamente uma ótima office.
00:21:33Quando VICE moved para New York,
00:21:35foi um grande deal.
00:21:36É como todos os sentirem que eles tinham feito.
00:21:39Eu goto.
00:21:40Eles eram o envio de muita gente.
00:21:42At the time, Williamsburg was...
00:21:45I want to lovingly call it a shithole.
00:21:47Um, the cops were too busy in the other side of Brooklyn,
00:21:50so it was a fucking playground.
00:21:57We're on our way to go see Jesse Pearson,
00:21:59who was the editor of the magazine when I started.
00:22:03He and Gavin basically just made the whole magazine.
00:22:06This is some real weird kind of Freudian shit,
00:22:08but I was like, it was kind of like having...
00:22:09I ever had a big brother, right?
00:22:11I'm the oldest kid in my family,
00:22:13and it was like having the two coolest big brothers ever.
00:22:15It was great. It was fun.
00:22:19One time, Gavin was so hungover at work,
00:22:22but then he went into the bathroom,
00:22:24you know, kind of in a hurry, right?
00:22:25And when he came out,
00:22:26he had taken off his pants and underwear
00:22:28and balled them up.
00:22:29He was still wearing his socks and shoes and his shirt,
00:22:31just he had his dick hanging out.
00:22:33And he walked over,
00:22:34and there was a big trash can next to Jesse's desk,
00:22:35and he went,
00:22:36well, shit my pants!
00:22:38And he threw the pants into the trash can,
00:22:43and the smell kind of erupted from it.
00:22:45And Jesse, like...
00:22:47I remember Jesse falling out of his chair,
00:22:50gagging and, like, screaming slightly,
00:22:53and then getting away from it.
00:22:55And then Gavin just spent the rest of the day
00:22:57nude from the waist down,
00:22:59dicks just flapping.
00:23:01And then that just became him for the rest of the day.
00:23:04He'd, like, walk over and he'd be like,
00:23:05what do you guys think of lunch today?
00:23:07You guys want to go to Teddy's?
00:23:13Time for a comeback for that.
00:23:14We going inside?
00:23:15Yeah.
00:23:16Okay.
00:23:17When Gavin and I were in the office together,
00:23:18we did a lot of stuff
00:23:19that would have been HR-able, cancel-able,
00:23:22in terms of, like, drugs in the office
00:23:23or, like, saying outlandish shit.
00:23:25But when we were really close,
00:23:27I would say that I saw him as somebody
00:23:29who really valued his friendships.
00:23:30I'm the same kind of person.
00:23:32And especially if you're a person who's like that
00:23:34and you're a writer or an editor,
00:23:36a friendship is like a romance.
00:23:38You can't help but, like,
00:23:39want to spread the word
00:23:40about what your friends are like
00:23:41and, like, tell everybody how great they are,
00:23:43maybe by embodying some of what they're like.
00:23:54When I was working at Vice,
00:23:55I was sober.
00:23:56But sometimes I would know somebody
00:23:58that started working there
00:23:59and they were, like, cool and normal.
00:24:02And then a little bit later,
00:24:03their personality sort of, like,
00:24:06morphed into a sort of Vice personality.
00:24:09There's this, like,
00:24:11sometimes with Vice,
00:24:12there's this, like, slimy undertone.
00:24:17Darla.
00:24:18Hello.
00:24:19Hello.
00:24:20And then I think that you also,
00:24:26Thomas,
00:24:27I worry about you
00:24:28because you went straight from school
00:24:31to Vice
00:24:32To the Looney man, yeah.
00:24:33For 15 years.
00:24:34Yeah.
00:24:35It's like you've been raised by wolves.
00:24:37And I worry.
00:24:40Worry.
00:24:41Worry I'm too cool for this square world.
00:24:44I worry because at Vice it was, like,
00:24:47it was insane.
00:24:48Like, it was not professional,
00:24:50which was great.
00:24:51We didn't want, like,
00:24:52I laughed so hard
00:24:52when I heard Vice got an HR department
00:24:54or an HR person.
00:24:55I was like, what?
00:24:56Yeah.
00:24:57Like, Gavin was naked a lot in the office.
00:25:00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:25:01It was chaos.
00:25:02Yeah.
00:25:03Like, it was chaos.
00:25:03And that's not how any of the rest of the world is.
00:25:07No.
00:25:08Like, I enjoyed the shit out of that time.
00:25:24Yeah.
00:25:25I miss being in the same city as everybody.
00:25:27We're all scattered to the wind now in that part.
00:25:29You know?
00:25:30I mean, that's just growing up.
00:25:32Like, it happens.
00:25:33I miss all my friends from high school and stuff, too.
00:25:35And, you know, I should get in a fucking car
00:25:37and go visit them and things of this nature.
00:25:39And it's...
00:25:39But, yeah, it was rad.
00:25:42Fucking real.
00:25:43Saying I miss it's the wrong thing, you know?
00:25:45The world's not worse.
00:25:47The world sucked back then.
00:25:49We were the good part, you know?
00:25:50I was lucky I found the cool kids.
00:25:59That's a great cover.
00:26:00Posted on the website.
00:26:01I just told Shayna...
00:26:02Because I said...
00:26:03Anal.fist is the address.
00:26:06Yeah, because I sent all those dildos back when they came.
00:26:08They were black.
00:26:10You ordered white ones.
00:26:11Yeah, yeah.
00:26:12Well, I wanted black with the pink tips.
00:26:13Most of what Gavin did and said wasn't all that controversial,
00:26:17but that would only be to his disappointment.
00:26:19I think that at every available opportunity to go too far,
00:26:24to cross a line, he would jump at that opportunity.
00:26:29Well, Jesus is gay.
00:26:30What?
00:26:31Jesus was gay.
00:26:32You saw him.
00:26:33What?
00:26:34You talking...
00:26:35Why?
00:26:36Because he hung out with the apostles?
00:26:37That's a known fact.
00:26:38At that point in time, Gavin was just a comedian who just wanted to push it too far.
00:26:43He just, like, every time he caught a hold of something that caused a reaction,
00:26:47he felt unable to restrain himself from continuing to get that reaction.
00:26:52Like, almost, like, pathologically, like, drawn.
00:26:54Just like, I'm just going to take this one step further, one step further.
00:26:57First of all, he wasn't.
00:26:58I'm just saying it's open to debate.
00:27:00Back then, homosexuality wasn't...
00:27:01A second ago, it was a known fact.
00:27:04I've seen Gavin turn 180 degrees on a variety of things.
00:27:08As to whether or not he actually has a true belief,
00:27:11sometimes I don't know, you know?
00:27:14In fact, I presume he doesn't.
00:27:16And now we can seg into the downside of Gavin.
00:27:21I mean, aside from the whole, like...
00:27:23Right.
00:27:24Whatever.
00:27:25Aside from everything that everyone knows in the news,
00:27:30he was funny, he was nice, we enjoyed hanging out.
00:27:33But Gavin had a lot of rules about how one should be, especially women,
00:27:39and I was not...
00:27:41I did not follow those rules.
00:27:46Just a lot of rules for, especially as a woman, what you're supposed to be.
00:27:55And at some point, he was like, this is really important.
00:27:59Labias have to be perfectly symmetrical.
00:28:05I just had had it.
00:28:06As if that's a fashion rule, yeah.
00:28:08It was a rule.
00:28:09It was a biological rule and just enough.
00:28:12I don't know.
00:28:13I do think that the lingering idea of rules just unfortunately wormed its way into my brain.
00:28:20Yeah.
00:28:21And made me feel very, like, insecure.
00:28:26I mean, I guess it's on me.
00:28:28Like, I was young.
00:28:29I came from a very insular community.
00:28:32I didn't know how to be in the world.
00:28:39And so you have this guy come along who's Mr. Do or Don't Rules.
00:28:46And I thought he was funny and smart, and I didn't take his nonsense shock value stuff seriously at that point.
00:28:53And so I believed a lot of what he said.
00:28:56Mm.
00:28:57And it has come up with my therapist.
00:29:00But who cares what he says, too?
00:29:02Exactly.
00:29:03I got infected by his rules, too.
00:29:04We got infected.
00:29:05I'm constantly thinking about them.
00:29:06We're a little bit, like, recovering cult members.
00:29:09Yeah.
00:29:10Well, some of us are recovering.
00:29:11I do think he had the power.
00:29:12I understand how the proud boy has, like, followed him.
00:29:16The charisma.
00:29:17Because he does have the charisma of a cult leader.
00:29:19But, yeah, it just, just, it got, it got old.
00:29:29And it got more extreme.
00:29:31Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:32And it didn't seem like a joke anymore.
00:29:37Yeah.
00:29:42I used to say a youth culture magazine that fucks shit up.
00:29:49Like, I think we're really passionate about hate.
00:29:52I think hate is great.
00:29:54It's super.
00:29:57Gavin out in the world was so crazy.
00:30:00He would just say the craziest fucking things to people, right?
00:30:03But he was able to get away with it in a way that most of us can't.
00:30:06I mean, it's still unclear to me, even though I've thought about it a lot, as much as anyone, probably.
00:30:11Was it a game for him?
00:30:12Was it, again, him just trying to shock people?
00:30:14I was being sarcastic.
00:30:18Gavin just started slipping off the slope, or just because what he thought was funny was to be a racist.
00:30:25So on the Gavin side of things, when I think about, like, or at least my first glimpse of there being, you know, like,
00:30:32I don't even talk about race stuff, race and right wing stuff in a weird way, kind of came immediately after the hate issue.
00:30:37It's because Goad came around. I'm sorry. That's exactly it.
00:30:40Um, I mean, I'm not sure how much I want to talk about this, too.
00:30:43Yeah, yeah.
00:30:44But, so, like, give me a, what's the question?
00:30:46How did Goad come into the picture? Were you a fan of Jim Goad and Answer Me and stuff?
00:30:49I was a fan of Answer Me, Jim Goad's zine.
00:30:55Which was very hateful and, uh, hilarious.
00:30:58And then I, there was a book that Jim Goad wrote called The Redneck Manifesto.
00:31:01The reason I liked The Redneck Manifesto was because I grew up as a poor white person.
00:31:06White trash, basically. You know?
00:31:08And the book was in large part about how so-called white trash was like the last undefended or indefensible minority in a way.
00:31:19But I think, I'm pretty sure I told Gavin, check out The Redneck Manifesto.
00:31:23And then he, um, he somehow found Goad and got in touch with him.
00:31:28I didn't, I didn't know Goad.
00:31:32Jim Goad, he's a kind of a weirdo American fringe right wing character.
00:31:37I remember meeting him with Gavin one time and I was just like, yeah, I don't need this.
00:31:53When I saw it kind of like coming to a boil in the office was,
00:31:58and he let Goad write this article that was like six pages long,
00:32:02which was like long for Vice called, I think it was called Ten Dumb Myths and Five, I should just fucking look it up.
00:32:11And it was all about how, oh man, they've taught you, everything they've taught you about American slavery is wrong.
00:32:24It actually wasn't that bad. And oh my God, Brazil did it worse.
00:32:27And you know, oh, do you know Americans? Did you know that white people ended slavery?
00:32:32And blah, blah, blah. Um, it fucking sucks.
00:32:36It was a very like slavery wasn't so bad kind of thing, you know, with the caveat that like somewhere he wrote that it like,
00:32:44he was like, well, I'm actually not saying that, but you know, we're all, we're all smart people.
00:32:50Like we could tell exactly what was going on with that.
00:32:53Even then, because I'd like, you know, I'd known him before this chapter.
00:33:02I was like, is he trying to make some extremely radical statement?
00:33:07Like it was, it wasn't hope, but it was, it was like, is he trying to make some extremely radical remark about how important free speech is?
00:33:14And this is just the most attention getting way of doing it.
00:33:18I mean, I asked, I asked Thomas, I remember, I remember I went and I asked Thomas, I said, is he a racist?
00:33:32I mean, I'm kind of curious, just like what, how, how Gavin fell away?
00:33:37Like why he got fucking, why, what happened?
00:33:42Like, did he?
00:33:44What happened? What do you mean?
00:33:45Like, how did he end up out of ICE?
00:33:47Um, you know, I don't, I don't remember the details of how he was bought out.
00:33:52He was chased out. He was fired. He quit. But Gavin left.
00:33:56Did you feel in the middle of that? Having been with Gavin's friend?
00:33:59Yeah, for sure.
00:34:00How did it play out between you guys?
00:34:02Who, me and Gavin?
00:34:03Yeah.
00:34:04Killed our friendship.
00:34:05Yeah.
00:34:06One thing I remember about Gavin was like the hard X-ing of friends, which seemed kind of like, seemed really cavalier to me.
00:34:12The X list. Yeah.
00:34:14What's the question?
00:34:16Well, it, what is the question?
00:34:18Um, do you feel like that's part and parcel with how he approached friendship and how you feel about it?
00:34:22Yeah.
00:34:23The X-ing, the X-ing of people.
00:34:25No, I don't, I don't know. I mean, I mean, I don't know, man. I don't wanna talk about Gavin.
00:34:31Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, no, okay. Well, I-
00:34:32I told you this from day one.
00:34:33I meant this, uh, you know, and I meant this with you too. It's like, do you X people?
00:34:36No.
00:34:37Do you have that feeling?
00:34:38No, no, I don't.
00:34:39Anything? No. Okay. Thank you.
00:34:40Okay. Thank you guys.
00:34:42Oh, wait. Do the, well, I'll do the clap.
00:34:44I got it.
00:34:45He did. Okay.
00:34:46Thanks, y'all.
00:34:47Fuck, man. All right. Is that okay?
00:34:49Huh?
00:34:50Yeah, I feel like, I mean, I feel bad because my memory's not so good and I, cause I won't talk about Gavin the way you want me to.
00:34:56Well, I don't want you to talk about Gavin a certain way. Like, I want you to, I want to ask you this, like, I-
00:35:01Right. Yeah.
00:35:02I'm curious what you felt about that and thought and stuff.
00:35:03Uh-huh. Gotcha.
00:35:04Yeah, right? I don't know. That sounds like-
00:35:17Well.
00:35:21Hope I didn't just burn that friendship with Jesse.
00:35:26I spent my, took my good, sweet time to do so.
00:35:36I'll worry about it a little bit.
00:35:39Everybody was my mentor there.
00:35:40Like, I want, you know, it's like in the back of my mind, but I'll be like, be like, Hope Jesse, like, Hope Jesse thinks it's a good sentence.
00:35:47Like, Hope Amy likes this joke. Da-da-da.
00:35:49Like, I'm still the intern, you know? Like, I'm still some 22-year-old looking for validation and like, trying to help out.
00:35:56I'm nervous about doing them justice. I'm getting a lot of these folks on camera by virtue of being like, well, I'll do it for you. And I'm like, ah!
00:36:11It's like, because I trust you, I trust you not to fuck things up. And I'm like, I'll fuck things up nice and good, you know?
00:36:18Um, and so, I hope I don't fuck things up, but.
00:36:28There's a lot of ways this could go and it's like, you know, my own fault for not coming into this with, like, a thesis I want to prove.
00:36:34But to be like, let's go talk and see what, you know, let's see what the story is.
00:36:39Pride's a little more nuanced to a person who, like, kind of, like, lives as a character in public.
00:36:48It fills out an understanding of a person, right?
00:36:55Hey, Gavin. I wanted to see how you're feeling about this doc.
00:36:58There's another leg of interviews I've got to get through first, but I'd like to close the production by interviewing you if you're up for it.
00:37:03I'm around if you want to talk through anything or ask any questions or yell at me.
00:37:09Yeah, I'll do an interview.
00:37:10I have a lot to say about you and why I picked you.
00:37:13That stuff is interesting.
00:37:15Defending racist allegations is dull, but I'm happy to do that too.
00:37:18He got forced out of the thing that he created.
00:37:31That must have been really, really super hard to see why he was outed and where they went.
00:37:39He was out before they even got started with their riches.
00:37:52There had to be some moments where he was just like, dude, fuck, what did I do?
00:37:56Because when he left, I guess it was around 2007 or 2008, you know, the company wasn't worth shit.
00:38:06You know, that had to sting.
00:38:22You're like, oh, that's so sad. He got kicked, pushed out of vice, but he got like paid out.
00:38:26He got like, it was a forced buyout.
00:38:28Because I remember he had an apartment in Williamsburg that I think he bought with the money that they...
00:38:32I was like, dude, this is like a three-bedroom house with like a roof deck.
00:38:37And then when I went to his house, he had a boat.
00:38:39And he said he'd take the boat to Long Island.
00:38:42And I'm like, man.
00:38:44Someone said to him, it's like, someone's like, yeah, they're fucking me over, but they're using a lot of lube.
00:38:49Gavin ain't having it.
00:38:56The move to Fox News and other more just flat out right wing platforms by Gavin didn't really surprise me that much.
00:39:09That was always kind of lurking under the surface of his sort of casual provocation.
00:39:15For the most part in a free market, if you're lazy and fat, it's because you're lazy and fat.
00:39:21Sorry, poor people, but you screwed up.
00:39:23It was clear that he was just a run of the mill right winger.
00:39:27He wasn't funny by that point at all.
00:39:29Women do earn less in America because they choose to.
00:39:33They would rather go to their daughter's piano recital than stay all night at work.
00:39:38Women should be at home with the kids. They're happier there.
00:39:41I hope that your viewers do not take you, sir, seriously.
00:39:47Dude, you might want to think about recalibrating here.
00:39:50Because if you go off the cliff too far, too conservative that Fox News won't hire you, I don't know who's going to hire you.
00:39:57You could be the most highest paid person on Fox News and you're going to fuck it up.
00:40:01You're literally going to fuck it up. I can see it happening.
00:40:04I don't know why you're going to fuck it up. Your wife doesn't want you to fuck it up. Your kids don't want you to fuck it up.
00:40:07I don't think even you should want to fuck it up, but you're going to fuck it up, aren't you?
00:40:12That he just kept getting fired over his politics.
00:40:27Something that Gavin wrote that I thought was needlessly provocative was his article that he published in a thought catalog, Transphobia is Perfectly Natural.
00:40:42They are mentally ill gays who need help, and that help doesn't include being maimed by physicians.
00:40:50These aren't women trapped in a man's body. They are nuts trapped in a crazy person's body.
00:40:55You don't need to change who you are. In fact, doing so is sexist, misandrist, homophobic, and further, damages the life of the mentally ill.
00:41:02And it's funny to be like, if you're born that way, you don't need to change who you are literally like a year before he writes as the closing credo of his own fucking life up until age 40.
00:41:17His book?
00:41:18Yeah, this is his book.
00:41:20If the reader has anything to glean from this book, I hope it's trust your gut.
00:41:26If you're an Amish sailor, but you were meant to be a straight drag queen who trains dancing dogs, you're going to have to bid adieu to your bearded friends and be the Lysandra the Great you were always meant to be.
00:41:36That's not just something that would make you feel better. It's the very definition of happiness.
00:41:40So he literally goes from being like, be who you are, do whatever it takes to achieve who you need to be, or like a, you know, great movie that I know he was a fan of when I knew him.
00:41:55Um, Rocky Horror Picture Show. Don't dream it. Be it. Um, this is motherfucking 2012. This is 2014.
00:42:05I remember the trans thing being one of the first things I saw. I was like, oh God, man, like, what are you doing? Like, like, don't. It just felt gross and wrong and hateful. And, uh, and then it was everything else.
00:42:21I see why people call you a racist. Muslim world is filled with shoeless, toothless, inbred, hill-dwelling, rifle-toting, sodomy-prone men ready to kill.
00:42:31I'm funny. Look, if you had the opportunity to just make people lose their minds, just by saying, I don't know, abracadabra, wouldn't you say it?
00:42:42I mean, some people wouldn't, but not Gavin, you know?
00:42:46What are you doing right now, Gavin? Is an alt-right commentator? A commentator on the way?
00:43:12He'd probably be pissed off at calling it alt-right, but yeah, he's doing commentary. He's doing a fucking talk show every day. He's basically doing what I remember as talk radio, but the fucking internet version.
00:43:20He has all these different fucking shows on his channel, Censored TV, right? Like, there's tons. Get Off My Lawn is the fucking podcast that has a video component. Anyway, there's tons of fucking shit.
00:43:36And so he, when we were working out a date, he was like, great, do the 21st. We do this show Cops and Robber after that. And he was like, yeah, it's me, two cops, and a felon talking about police videos. I was like, what kind of felon? He was like, I'll just quote him.
00:43:52You don't watch censored TV and you're doing a doc about the guy? Does that sound like investigative journalism to you? And so I wrote, you've made over a hundred hours of videos a year for the last decade. I've been watching your old shows and guest appearances almost every day since September. I'm sorry I've skipped the cops and robber eps.
00:44:10Anyway, we sorted out the time. At the end of it, I just said, uh, we'll check on Wednesday and see what you're feeling like. And he said, I don't have feelings. Or maybe not. Who knows? Mysterious figure. It can't, cannot fucking figure out if he's on the defensive or not. We'll just, you know, walking in blind.
00:44:40It didn't seem even that political, right? It seemed more of just like a boys' club, a drinking club, a fratty thing. There is this whole group of disaffected young males. He tapped into that and he built something around him.
00:44:56Well, the first time he calls me and he says, hey, you want to come drink some beer with me and my new gang of Western chauvinists? And I was like, what?
00:45:03I am a proud Western chauvinist who refuses to apologize for creating the modern world.
00:45:12I mean, that's really where the proud boys came from. There was a young chap, but he didn't date.
00:45:26He watched a lot of porn and he went to musicals. And that's where the proud boys come from.
00:45:37Because there was a musical and one of the songs there was, proud of my boy.
00:45:43It was Aladdin.
00:45:44I make you proud of your boy.
00:45:47So, Gavin would start singing this whenever this kid appeared. And that's where the idea came from.
00:45:58So, you know, when you're doing the same thing every week, or in this case it was every night, and you start, just like the hipsters with Vice, you start developing sort of a culture.
00:46:15And a culture needs a name.
00:46:18So, I think it was May of 2015, I said, okay, we got a name. We're the proud boys.
00:46:25And then, looks-wise, I've always been into the mods, and I've always admired the mods and the rockers in Brighton Beach. So, let's wear Fred Perry's.
00:46:35And I remember speaking to some men who I knew in Toronto, who were, it was at, like, a cocktail party at, like, some person's house that was, like, totally, like, liberal-leaning group.
00:46:59And they just said, I'm so into this. I've listened to what he has to say, and I believe that men's voices are being subverted, and someone has to, like, stick up for nationalism.
00:47:11And I was, like, huh, this highly educated, professional real estate guy in Toronto is, like, joining a proud boys chapter.
00:47:26Like, it felt like there were these cells that were forming.
00:47:30How'd you meet the proud boys?
00:47:39I was, uh, staying in New York, and, you know, when you're really in New York, I really didn't have any group of guys or friends.
00:47:47Yeah.
00:47:47You know, when you're an adult, it's easy when you're a kid, you're like, hey, my name's John. Want to be friends? And then that's how you make lifelong friends.
00:47:54In terms of whenever I wanted to go out and hang out with the guys, it would mostly be among, uh, co-workers.
00:47:59Co-workers come, and they go, and you're not really building much of a relationship with people.
00:48:03My wife pointed out, she found the proud boys on the, um, on the internet. She found them.
00:48:11It was presented in that fashion, you know? It was like a group of guys. We all wear matching shirts, go out to the bar, have some drinks, you know?
00:48:19And it's once a month with the guys. You know, have shared values. We are unified by the 12 tenants. Maximum freedom, minimum government, pro-First Amendment, pro-Second Amendment, uh, venerate the housewife, glorify the entrepreneur.
00:48:35We have, uh, have a set of values that unifies us.
00:48:38And, um, you know, there was a vetting process. Go to the bar, meet some of the guys, they talk to you, interview you, find out what's going on, why you want to join, how'd you find us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:48:53Well, uh, they found that I was proud boy material.
00:48:56Hey, all right.
00:48:57You know, proud boys have this weird and childish, like, act of hazing to, like, initiate a new member.
00:49:09USA! USA! USA! USA!
00:49:13There's the first degree you need, uh, proudly state, I am a proud Western chauvinist who refuses to apologize for creating the modern world.
00:49:22I am a Western chauvinist. I am a Western chauvinist. And I refuse to apologize. I refuse to apologize for creating the modern world. Creating the modern world.
00:49:31Cheerios! Food! Frosted Flakes! Three! Cocoa Pops! Four!
00:49:34Then when you get your second degree, that is when you are surrounded by a minimum of five proud boys who proceed to punch you until you can name five breakfast cereals.
00:49:45Two! Grape duds! One! Cheerios! Food! Frosted Flakes! Three! Cocoa Pops! Four!
00:49:50Fruit Loops! Cocoa Pops! Cocoa Krispies! And I remember screaming it. It was a great time. It was. I was sore the next day. I mean, these are big guys punching you, but it was a blast. I really did have a great time.
00:50:07And when you get the third degree, you, uh, get the tattoo. Doesn't have to be on your arm. You just kind of have the proud boy tattoo. That's your third degree.
00:50:16sih!
00:50:28Voile si.
00:50:30He started a Goofy Club, and he gave it a bunch of rules to make it fun. And then it got out of hand, you know?
00:50:36E aí
00:51:06E aí
00:51:36E aí
00:51:37E aí
00:51:38E aí
00:51:39E aí
00:51:40E aí
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00:53:31E na terceira, você ainda tem que desistir, mas você tem que ter um tatuado.
00:53:35E na terceira, você tem que ser arrestado ou em uma violência violenta por causa.
00:53:38Really?
00:53:39Sim.
00:53:40Você tem que ser arrestado?
00:53:53Então, quando eles começaram a fazer lutas com as pessoas,
00:53:55a terceira foi criada...
00:53:58Ninguém que lutou com os Proud Boys,
00:54:00tinha que ser um 4º Proud Boy, ou seja,
00:54:03que é onde ele goofou, certo?
00:54:13Ele me enviou um vídeo de um futebol de um futebol de um futebol.
00:54:15Ele me disse,
00:54:16''Is this bad?''
00:54:18Como assim,
00:54:19''Por que é errado quando meus amigos fazem isso,
00:54:22mas as pessoas gostam de futebol de um futebol de um futebol?''
00:54:24E eu escrevi,
00:54:27''I seem to? What's that based on?''
00:54:29''I don't like getting in fights myself,
00:54:31but that's primarily because I'm tiny and I suck at them.''
00:54:33''The violence of the Proud Boys has always been measured,
00:54:36and necessary,
00:54:37and over-punished.''
00:54:39So I wrote,
00:54:40''Okay, not a lot of wiggle room with that.''
00:54:42''When I was a kid, fighting was like taking a shit.''
00:54:45''I was told about a speech that Gavin McGinnis was giving at the Metropolitan Republican Club,
00:54:54and there you know how that went.
00:54:56''This is what actually happened.''
00:55:06Gavin McGinnis was going to give a speech,
00:55:08and of course I put on the Fred Perry shirt and got my Make America Great Again hat,
00:55:14and got ready to go out because I wasn't going to miss this, you know.
00:55:18So I went to the speech with some of the other guys, I think it was a Friday night.
00:55:22I got into the event.
00:55:25I saw the Gavin McGinnis speech.
00:55:28''Wow, we exited.''
00:55:32''Keep walking, keep going, keep walking.''
00:55:35''Keep walking, let's go, let's go.''
00:55:41''Well, some people protesting us,
00:55:44they sent a little attack party around the block.''
00:55:48''Oh, no, no, no.''
00:55:49''Oh, my God, oh, my God.''
00:55:52''So that's where I did what I feel the vast majority of people in my situation would do.''
00:55:57''I run towards the scene.''
00:55:58''They see two of their friends just getting overwhelmed by about four to six people, you know.''
00:56:04''And so I singled one out, ran into him, knocked him over.''
00:56:08''And got on top of him, punched him, started kicking him.''
00:56:12''Until he went into the full fetal position, which communicated to me that he didn't want to fight no more.''
00:56:17''Right.''
00:56:18''There, I won the fight.''
00:56:27''The videos that were taken went viral.''
00:56:45''After a speech McGinnis gave at the Metropolitan Republican Club,
00:56:49''This violent confrontation broke out.''
00:56:56''The Proud Boys claimed they were attacked by the anti-fascist group Antifa.''
00:57:00''But now 10 Proud Boys are facing criminal charges, some of them possible jail time.''
00:57:06''I got sentenced to four years and since I didn't cause any trouble, I got out in three and a half good behavior.''
00:57:14''I'm officially disassociating myself from the Proud Boys.''
00:57:19''In all capacities, forever, I quit.''
00:57:22''I'm told by my legal team and law enforcement that this gesture could help alleviate their sentencing.''
00:57:29''We are not an extremist group and we do not have ties with white nationalists.''
00:57:36''Meantime, McGinnis's account was suspended from Twitter in August.''
00:57:48''Banned from Facebook in October.''
00:57:50''And yesterday, terminated from YouTube.''
00:57:53''His wife said it, the Proud Boys were becoming problematic for her family.''
00:58:04''The reaction of hate against the Proud Boys.''
00:58:07''She said, you know, she didn't like this at all.''
00:58:09''She says, you know, I thought I married a comedian.''
00:58:13''Not a political activist.''
00:58:15''Yeah, but he's gone through a lot because Emily didn't agree with any of his views.''
00:58:21''I mean, they were married and in love and all the rest of it and still are.''
00:58:25''But it was very hard for her.''
00:58:28''And he recognized that, so he tried to tone it down.''
00:58:33''Do you have a large megaphone and a large platform, do you bear any responsibility?''
00:58:36''Yes, I do bear any responsibility.''
00:58:38''I mean, I'm not guilt-free in this, there's culpability there.''
00:58:42''I shouldn't have said, you know, violence solves everything.''
00:58:46''or something like that without making the context clear.''
00:58:49''And I regret saying things like that.''
00:58:51''Are you apologizing?''
00:58:52''No.''
00:58:53''Would you take any of it back?''
00:58:55''Uh, that's a good question.''
00:58:58''Yes, I guess, well, I don't know.''
00:59:04''Nah, that ship has sailed.''
00:59:07''He defied the claim that there's no such thing as bad publicity.''
00:59:12''The adulation shifted to hate.''
00:59:16''You know, like active hatred.''
00:59:19''Not like, we hate this guy this week, but we'll forget about it because he's going to do some hilarious shit.''
00:59:24''Two months later that we're going to cover and approve of.''
00:59:28''He got some life-canceling bad publicity then.''
00:59:32''But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups.''
00:59:37''And to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities.''
00:59:44''What do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name.''
00:59:46''White supremacists and white supremacists and white supremacists.''
00:59:49''Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.''
00:59:56''It was funny because I was actually in prison, I was in the TV room and there was a bunch of other inmates there watching.''
01:00:02''And so when Biden said, ''Proud Boys,'' everyone just turned around.''
01:00:06''Looked at me, I was like, ''Hey, we're big time, look at me, Ma.''
01:00:11''You know, it was funny, it was laughing.''
01:00:14''They were cheering, they were like, ''Oh, John, you're big time now.''
01:00:18''Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.''
01:00:21''Did you just say Proud Boys, stand down and stand back?''
01:00:23''He did a general command.''
01:00:25''He's the general of the Proud Boys.''
01:00:26''I control the Proud Boys, Donald.''
01:00:28''What Donald Trump said appeared to energize the Proud Boys.''
01:00:32''Stand back and stand by.''
01:00:34''Was adapted into its logo and shared online.''
01:00:37''Would you say that Proud Boys numbers increased after the stand back, stand by comment?''
01:00:43''Exponentially.''
01:00:44''I'd say tripled, probably.''
01:00:47''We can now project the winner of the presidential race.''
01:00:56''Above all, it's time for America to get back up.''
01:01:00''The country is so ready.''
01:01:02''We're going to be protesting the heist of the 2020 election.''
01:01:08''Help us pay for the staging, the transportation, and most importantly, the security of our peaceful protesters.''
01:01:15''Thank you and God bless you.''
01:01:17''I'll see you in Washington, January 6.''
01:01:20''All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by emboldened radical left Democrats.''
01:01:29''Which is what they're doing.''
01:01:31''And stolen by the fake news media.''
01:01:33''That's what they've done and what they're doing.''
01:01:36''The very next day, the Proud Boys got to work.''
01:01:40''The Proud Boys launched an encrypted chat called the Ministry of Self-Defense.''
01:01:44''The committee obtained hundreds of these messages which show strategic and tactical planning about January the 6th.''
01:01:51''Including maps of Washington, D.C. that pinpoint the location of police.''
01:01:57''Who greets our streets?'' ''Who greets our streets?'' ''Who greets our streets?''
01:02:01''We need backup.''
01:02:02''Got up, run over to the TV room and guys are over there jumping up and down.''
01:02:06''Oh, John, John, Proud Boys are storming the Capitol.''
01:02:10''I was like, what? What?''
01:02:12''Here you are, John, now we know what you're about.''
01:02:16''Holy smokes, this is crazy.''
01:02:18''Here's your boys, Proud of your boy.''
01:02:22''We have a breach of the Capitol.''
01:02:27''Breach of the Capitol.''
01:02:28''This whole resource is on the east side as they broke into that window and they're trying to kick it in.''
01:02:33''We need an area for the housing members, they're all walking over now through the tunnels.''
01:02:38''We're trying to hold the imperfect.''
01:02:41''We're trying to hold the imperfect now.''
01:02:45''We need to close the doors of the Capitol.''
01:02:48''I was just like, man, this is so far away from the Deuce and Deuce.''
01:02:58''Like, what on earth has happened here?''
01:03:06''Two members of the far-right Proud Boys group are learning their fate today for the roles they played in the deadly January 6th riot on the U.S. Capitol.''
01:03:14''One was handed a 10-year sentence this morning.''
01:03:16''The other could get up to 27 years.''
01:03:18''Gavin said specifically, don't go to January 6th.''
01:03:28''When you create something that huge, you have to take responsibility.''
01:03:36''You're the person who is responsible.''
01:03:38''Even if he started hiding himself, he was not there.''
01:03:42''But all the ideas, all they've done came from him.''
01:03:48''Totally.''
01:03:50''Is the Proud Boys or their domestic terrorist group?''
01:03:54''Well, I don't think we have treated the Proud Boys itself as a domestic terrorist group.''
01:04:00''But we certainly have individuals.''
01:04:01''What does it take to make the list?''
01:04:03''Well, there is, as you may know, Senator, under federal law, under U.S. law, there is no list of domestic terrorism organizations.''
01:04:13''The same way there is for foreign terrorist organizations.''
01:04:15''Well, I don't know if we should have one or not, but I think it's time to think about it.''
01:04:19''Do you believe the violence on January 6th was justified?''
01:04:28''On the advisory council, I respectfully decline to answer your question on the basis of the Fifth Amendment.''
01:04:34''And Mr. Stone, did you have any role in planning for the violence on January 6th?''
01:04:39''Once again, I will assert my Fifth Amendment right to decline to answer your question.''
01:04:44''A man is not finished when he is defeated. He is only finished.''
01:04:48''When he quits.''
01:04:50''Richard Dixon, God bless you.''
01:04:52''Ohooroo.''
01:04:53''Yeah, what about it?''
01:04:56''That video doesn't prove criminality.''
01:04:59''It doesn't prove that I know anything about the events of January 6th.''
01:05:03''That's guilt by association.''
01:05:06''But the people who say that I'm a Proud Boy, those people are communists.''
01:05:11''A little bit to unpack there, right?''
01:05:17''But yeah, he basically decried any involvement with the Proud Boys.''
01:05:21''Which I don't think's the case.''
01:05:23''But you know, here we are.''
01:05:25''You see him?'' ''Yeah, tomorrow.''
01:05:37''Over here.''
01:05:39''Oh, right.''
01:05:43''I think he responded while we were out talking.''
01:05:46''He wants to do one.''
01:05:48''Okay, so one instead of noon.''
01:05:50''And he sent an address.''
01:05:52''Look at this shit, look where he wants us to go.''
01:05:54''A police station in the suburbs.''
01:05:56''Fuck.''
01:06:00''You know, I'll follow his lead.''
01:06:02''Here's the thing, him with more than anybody I've ever interviewed.''
01:06:07''I don't know how this will go.''
01:06:09''We are gonna be at his mercy.''
01:06:11''He is really fucking good at this and very practiced.''
01:06:14''And I am a lunatic who hasn't appeared on camera in four years?''
01:06:20''Doodly-doo, doodly-doo, doodly-doo.''
01:06:24''Yeah, so I thought what I'd do, I would have these theories that I would try on.''
01:06:30''And I would see which suits him.''
01:06:32''And I got the idea, and this is unfortunate, from a book called Explaining Hitler.''
01:06:37''By journalist Ron Rosenbaum.''
01:06:39''Where he went through all the different weird theories about Hitler.''
01:06:43''You know he only had one testicle.''
01:06:45''And like, oh, he hates the Jews because a Jewish doctor killed his mother.''
01:06:49''And stuff like that.''
01:06:50''And like, can Hitler be explained and should we attempt to explain Hitler?''
01:06:55''You know?''
01:06:57''The only thing I promised to him was that I'll try to be fair.''
01:07:01''And it's like, can you tell this whole story without taking a side?''
01:07:06''And without sacrificing candor.''
01:07:08''I mean, the thing is you never get a straight answer out of him.''
01:07:18''That's why it's so hard, like, what question are you gonna get the most truth out of?''
01:07:22''Because, like...''
01:07:24''I mean, I've seen the guy naked a lot in my life.''
01:07:26''And there's a lot of things that I don't know.''
01:07:28''You know, starting with ''Bonked in the Head.''
01:07:34''Bonked in the Head'' was Steve Duran's theory that Gavin's entire political change occurred when he got a concussion during a boxing match he filmed for YouTube.
01:07:42''Got that.''
01:07:46''Tramarama.''
01:07:48''After the quintessential Seventeen magazine column.''
01:07:52''He's acting out from having been hurt and betrayed so many different times in his life.''
01:07:56''As a guy who deeply values classic masculinity and not crying, not apologizing, things of this nature.''
01:08:04''He has no outlet for this stuff and so it simmers and becomes rage.''
01:08:08''People hurt people.''
01:08:09''Stuck in 91 is...''
01:08:11''Motherfucker.''
01:08:12''This is kind of more...''
01:08:13''It's similar to permanent nostalgic but it's more like about his politics.''
01:08:16''Convert Zeal.''
01:08:17''And this is just that he...''
01:08:19''Incoming to America''
01:08:21''and falling in love with America''
01:08:22''He has become the worst type of American.''
01:08:26''Was it always real?''
01:08:29''The right-wing tendencies?''
01:08:31''Was it ever a joke?''
01:08:33''Did you become who you are?''
01:08:35''Were you always who you are?''
01:08:37''Would you ask that to anyone?''
01:08:39''Like who's gonna be able to answer that?''
01:08:42''In this one I just want to put down at the end...''
01:08:45''There is no punchline.''
01:08:47''Or we're waiting on the punchline.''
01:08:48''Or we're the punchline.''
01:08:51''You know what I believe?''
01:08:53''Yeah.''
01:08:54''I believe it all.''
01:08:58''This is the soup that makes up Gavin McInnes.''
01:09:01''Chunk-a-chunk.''
01:09:02''How's this?''
01:09:03''I think it's really good for tomorrow.''
01:09:04''Music.''
01:09:05''I don't know man, do I look like a kid pretending to be a fucking reporter?''
01:09:06''That's my deepest fear.''
01:09:07''I think it's really good for tomorrow.''
01:09:08''Music.''
01:09:09''I don't know man, do I look like a kid pretending to be a fucking reporter?''
01:09:14''That's my deepest fear.'
01:09:15Essa é a minha espécie de medo.
01:09:31Bom dia. Bom dia.
01:09:33Bom dia. Bom dia.
01:09:35Bom dia?
01:09:36Bom dia, vamos lá.
01:09:37Bom dia.
01:09:39Boa, chuca, chuca.
01:09:42Boa, chuca, chuca.
01:09:44Sunlight.
01:09:45Do, do, do.
01:09:47What's it say? 1243? Oh, ok.
01:09:49Alright, cool.
01:09:50What if he just walks up and punches me?
01:09:53What if that's the end of this whole fucking thing?
01:09:56Fuck.
01:09:58Ah!
01:09:59Ah!
01:10:00Ah!
01:10:01Ah!
01:10:05Alright.
01:10:08Very close to one time.
01:10:10Which is dangerous.
01:10:12Let's see what he's got to say.
01:10:19Alright, act cool, guys.
01:10:23Do, do, do.
01:10:24Oh, there he is.
01:10:28Hello?
01:10:31Hi.
01:10:36Ah!
01:10:37The bushes!
01:10:38Oh, fuck.
01:10:39Fuck, I'm sorry about that.
01:10:40Ah, Jesus.
01:10:41I'm so sorry about that.
01:10:42Hey, it's okay.
01:10:43I, I know, the, um...
01:10:44It was so embarrassing.
01:10:45You got, yeah.
01:10:46It, it, it, it's the weather, the wind up here kind of throws your...
01:10:49I hadn't seen you in so long.
01:10:50It's been a bad.
01:10:51I got enthusiastic.
01:10:53I like your tie.
01:10:54Uh, I brought ties.
01:10:55So, uh...
01:10:56Oh, good.
01:10:57I got a couple options, but we can do...
01:10:58Okay, great.
01:10:59Yeah, what are we...
01:11:00Hi.
01:11:01Dress down.
01:11:02Look at this.
01:11:03Well, you just threw me in a bush.
01:11:04What?
01:11:05Well, yeah, now the...
01:11:06You look like, uh, Neil Hamburger since the last time.
01:11:10Ouch.
01:11:11How's the fuck, man?
01:11:12All right, shall we go to the secret location?
01:11:14Oh, yeah, the secret.
01:11:15Okay, yes.
01:11:16I was gonna say it.
01:11:17So that's why I meet people here, and then we shuttle to the secret spot.
01:11:20All right.
01:11:21Because I can't have people know the address.
01:11:22Understood.
01:11:23Okay, yeah.
01:11:24Wait, do we need to get, like, black bagged and put in a van, or...?
01:11:25Yeah, basically.
01:11:26Well, we'd have to cut.
01:11:27You ready?
01:11:28Yeah.
01:11:29It's big time.
01:11:30You want your curtain?
01:11:31This is it.
01:11:32Put the garbage bag there so people think it's a construction site.
01:11:33Oh.
01:11:34Uh, welcome to the studio.
01:11:35This is my office.
01:11:36Thank you.
01:11:37Could I, uh...
01:11:38Could I get your sweater?
01:11:39A little seam?
01:11:40Yeah.
01:11:41Yeah.
01:11:42Yeah.
01:11:43This is just driving me crazy, these zigzags.
01:11:46Oh, no.
01:11:47Yeah, well...
01:11:48Thanks.
01:11:49Meal hamburger?
01:11:50Yeah.
01:11:51I don't even find that insulting or anything.
01:11:52It's a fact.
01:11:53You've got dandruff all over your coat.
01:11:54You look...
01:11:55You're like a Marxist.
01:11:56Oh, no.
01:11:57No.
01:11:58No.
01:11:59No.
01:12:00No.
01:12:01No.
01:12:02No.
01:12:03No.
01:12:04No.
01:12:05No.
01:12:06No.
01:12:07No.
01:12:08No.
01:12:09No.
01:12:10No.
01:12:11No.
01:12:12No.
01:12:13No.
01:12:14No.
01:12:15No.
01:12:16You're dressed like a Marxist professor.
01:12:18I'm sorry.
01:12:19Huh?
01:12:20So it goes.
01:12:21How old are you now?
01:12:22Forty.
01:12:23Holy shit.
01:12:24I know.
01:12:25Are you married?
01:12:26No.
01:12:27Just got left.
01:12:28By...
01:12:29Would've been wife number three.
01:12:31What?!
01:12:33Like...
01:12:34Two weeks ago.
01:12:36Yeah.
01:12:37What is your deal?
01:12:38I'm a single dancer.
01:12:39You've got your mic all tangled up in it.
01:12:40Big ol' fuck up.
01:12:41Oh, right, the microphone was on here.
01:12:42I'm sorry.
01:12:43Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:12:44Eu trabalhei para o Project Veritas e eles usavam...
01:12:47Eles usavam...
01:12:48Eles usavam...
01:12:49Sim...
01:12:50Não, não, não, não.
01:12:51E esse cara negro...
01:12:53Ele tinha um t-shirt que era.
01:12:56E você podia ver um botão e uma linha.
01:12:59E era um t-shirt que era um t-shirt que era.
01:13:02E eu tive uma reunião e eu já perdia.
01:13:05Eu disse, ''James, esse cão incompetente está destruindo seu próprio lugar."
01:13:09E ele estava todo estando e disse,
01:13:11''É muito difícil encontrar os t-shirts de meu tamanho, Cavan''.
01:13:14Porque ele era fat.
01:13:16Ele tinha um botão.
01:13:17Olha isso, olha isso.
01:13:20Oh, obrigado.
01:13:21Isso parece bom.
01:13:22Você disse que você esteveu na noite?
01:13:24Sim, eu fiz.
01:13:25E aí, o que aconteceu?
01:13:26Você trouxe ele em um futebol?
01:13:28Não, não, não!
01:13:36Você quer começar a entrevista?
01:13:38Sim.
01:13:40Vamos falar sobre...
01:13:41Vamos falar sobre você primeiro?
01:13:42Go for it.
01:13:43Então, você era um pequeno intern,
01:13:46muito assim como você é agora.
01:13:48Você não mudou realmente.
01:13:50Você disse isso sobre os três minutos?
01:13:53Ou 15 minutos, generosamente.
01:13:55Eu posso dizer que você não está em um biker gang.
01:13:57Então, o que você quer falar?
01:14:01Você quer falar sobre você?
01:14:02Você pode fazer um pouco disso.
01:14:03Eu quero falar sobre você.
01:14:05Mas eu pensava que você era a questão de reconcilia
01:14:07meu Hitler ways com o hipster que hired você.
01:14:11Sim, exatamente.
01:14:12Então, é um pouco de nós, mas mais você.
01:14:14Ok.
01:14:15E eu trouxe...
01:14:16Eu trouxe para você primeiro.
01:14:17Eu trouxe um monte de teorias...
01:14:19que são baseados em todos os que eu estava falando.
01:14:22Eu disse que...
01:14:23Você sabe isso.
01:14:24Todo mundo tem diferentes teorias.
01:14:25E eu vou apresentar eles para você.
01:14:27E ver se você pensava que nenhum deles não era bullshit.
01:14:30O problema com essas teorias é...
01:14:32O suposição é que há um mudança de mudança.
01:14:34E...
01:14:35Então, você está tentando explicar o mudança.
01:14:37Mas a hipótese está errado.
01:14:39O que é o que é?
01:14:40O que é?
01:14:41Não há mudança.
01:14:47As pessoas falam que...
01:14:48Se você ainda estava em vice,
01:14:51você teria milhões de dólares.
01:14:53Mas se não fosse aquele conflito...
01:14:55ou o que era o catálico...
01:14:57seria algo na semana.
01:15:00Você sabe?
01:15:01Eu passei por, tipo,
01:15:02100 vice-ending controversias...
01:15:04desde que eu deixei.
01:15:05Então...
01:15:06Quando a cultura muda...
01:15:08e você não muda com a mudança...
01:15:10e você não muda com a mudança...
01:15:11então...
01:15:12é só um tempo...
01:15:13antes de você ser incompatível...
01:15:14com seu...
01:15:15surroundings.
01:15:18Eu ia dizer...
01:15:19Eu ia dizer...
01:15:20há uma história em sua vida...
01:15:21porque...
01:15:22Eu trabalhei para você...
01:15:23e então...
01:15:24eu continuo com o que você estava fazendo...
01:15:25e...
01:15:27eu fui embora...
01:15:28e...
01:15:29eu fui embora...
01:15:30e...
01:15:31eu fui embora...
01:15:32quando...
01:15:33o Proud Boys...
01:15:34eu acho que você tem...
01:15:35há alguns conceitos sobre isso...
01:15:37com o Proud Boys...
01:15:38onde você vê eles...
01:15:39como um violento grupo...
01:15:40e oi, eles são violentos...
01:15:42e oi, eles são violentos...
01:15:43e eles não entendem...
01:15:44é uma reação de violência...
01:15:45que já era muito prevalente...
01:15:46mas você se tornou muito bem...
01:15:48você era muito bem...
01:15:49você era como hooligans...
01:15:50Hooligans seekam isso...
01:15:51Right?
01:15:52você era só...
01:15:54você era só...
01:15:55e eles estavam se tornando...
01:15:56e eles nos sentaram...
01:15:57e eles nos sentaram...
01:15:58mas nós nos sentaram...
01:15:59e eles me deram...
01:16:00e eles sempre me lembraram...
01:16:01você era assim...
01:16:02eu era assim...
01:16:03então você não gostaria de gostar...
01:16:04é isso que você era dizer?
01:16:05você pode fazer isso...
01:16:06mas é...
01:16:07você era assim...
01:16:08eu era assim...
01:16:09esse era o meu...
01:16:10agora...
01:16:30UREN.
01:16:31E aí
01:16:32vocês
01:16:34O que você quer dizer que não é?
01:16:36Em reação do...
01:16:38O reação do que eles não há uma feedback loop.
01:16:46A noite foi uma...
01:16:48...comedy night.
01:16:49Nós fomos celebrar Otaya Yamaguchi
01:16:51...cando a...
01:16:52...comendante da JAPANESE SOCIALIST PART.
01:16:54Oh, 154?
01:16:55Isso é o night com a sword.
01:16:56Eu estava vestindo Otaya Yamaguchi.
01:16:58Eu tinha chinky glasses
01:16:59... e uma escola escola.
01:17:01Por que você diz chinky sobre um japonês?
01:17:03Isso é o que você fica em trouble.
01:17:04O que é o que é o racismo?
01:17:05É...
01:17:06... eles chamam indians packies.
01:17:07É?
01:17:08Não é certo, claro.
01:17:09Certo.
01:17:10É.
01:17:11Gooks.
01:17:12Eles chamam os vietnames gooks
01:17:14...como da korea guerra.
01:17:16Você não gosta dessas palavras, do você?
01:17:18Nigger.
01:17:20Nigger.
01:17:26Eu tive essa discussão algumas vezes
01:17:27... e é geralmente com a mídia
01:17:29... e eles dizem,
01:17:30... você não deveria falar assim
01:17:32... se há um risco de alguém vilifying você for isso.
01:17:34E é assim,
01:17:35... não, eu não vou ser tiptoando
01:17:36... around the tulips
01:17:37... quando ninguém mais é.
01:17:39Mas você tem que, assim,
01:17:40...lean em para isso
01:17:41... e, assim,
01:17:42... e, assim,
01:17:43... e, assim,
01:17:44... eles vão vir para você.
01:17:45... e, assim,
01:17:47... isso vai ser ótimo.
01:17:48...
01:17:50...
01:17:51...
01:17:54Put these in stink piles.
01:17:57Uh, stinks.
01:18:00Uh, good.
01:18:02Uh, good.
01:18:04Good.
01:18:06Stinks.
01:18:07Uh, convert zeal, is that being a new immigrant?
01:18:10Super American. Well, yeah, and that.
01:18:11Yeah, stuck in anyone, gay.
01:18:14Bonked on a head. It's a doozy.
01:18:16Permanent nostalgic. Nah.
01:18:18Nah, okay.
01:18:20Um, this is to explain why I'm a Nazi?
01:18:23Yeah.
01:18:23Okay.
01:18:25Also, I just got to the one that I was like,
01:18:27well, he's not gonna like this one.
01:18:29This is part of a series.
01:18:30Yeah, and he's racist.
01:18:32Okay.
01:18:32Is my Native American wife part of my racism,
01:18:36or why am I absolved of racism
01:18:38when it comes to my wife and kids?
01:18:40Well, that ties into tokenism, right?
01:18:43Tokenism?
01:18:43Right, yeah.
01:18:44Oh, so I married a Native American as a token,
01:18:47so I don't truly love her.
01:18:49Right.
01:18:49She's just a symbol.
01:18:50So every day...
01:18:51Which is worse.
01:18:51Every day I sit with this woman,
01:18:53and have breakfast with contempt.
01:18:55That's how racist you are.
01:18:57The narrative of racist white guy
01:18:58is so important to the American left.
01:19:02And ironically, straight, white, male conservatives
01:19:05are the least racist people in this country.
01:19:08in the world.
01:19:11When we say make America great again,
01:19:13we're not talking about fucking slavery.
01:19:16We want it to go back to 1983.
01:19:18We want jet skis and mullets
01:19:20and cocaine and capitalism
01:19:23and ugly sports cars
01:19:25and beavis and beavis and butt-head audacity.
01:19:27That's what we're going for.
01:19:30A much better time.
01:19:32We might be past the point of no return.
01:19:34I'll probably eat tremendous shit
01:19:45for not, like, holding a speech to the flames
01:19:48for every single fucked-up tweet he's made
01:19:50and or video he's made.
01:19:53But...
01:19:54You know?
01:20:00It's tricky.
01:20:01These are people.
01:20:01And you went too far to the point
01:20:04where, like, it's no...
01:20:05Yeah.
01:20:06You, like, wore out the joke.
01:20:09And this is before...
01:20:10I would argue that that occurs
01:20:12long before he even starts the Proud Boys.
01:20:14Yeah.
01:20:18Yeah, his whole deal is going too far.
01:20:20And now he's facing the consequences for that.
01:20:27It's full of strange contradictions.
01:20:29To try and put anyone
01:20:32into too neat a little box,
01:20:34you risk making a fool yourself to do that.
01:20:38So it's not ever quite so neat and easy.
01:20:44Why?
01:20:46Why?
01:20:46Why?
01:20:48Why did he do all that?
01:20:53To be in this position?
01:20:55Where is he at now?
01:20:56Is he proud of it?
01:21:01It's with disbelief that I've seen him draw out
01:21:07some of the worst instincts in humanity.
01:21:15There's part of it that's sort of, like,
01:21:18not that I'm one to be doing any forgiving,
01:21:20but it feels a little unforgivable.
01:21:28I think everything he's kind of touched
01:21:30has gotten out of control in certain ways.
01:21:32But I think we meet him at this weird breaking point
01:21:34where the consequences...
01:21:36where previously his provocations
01:21:42all came back to him
01:21:45as kind of, like, media or career consequences,
01:21:48that it bled out into the world.
01:21:49He started this group of kids
01:21:50who met in real life
01:21:52and went and got in fucking fights.
01:21:54And there's kids in jail
01:22:03because of the actions they took
01:22:04as part of the group that he started.
01:22:07It's like, one of his big things,
01:22:08like, he's like, look, just, we're not racist,
01:22:10but it's like, or, we're not racist,
01:22:12we're not Nazi, we're certainly not Nazis.
01:22:14Like, we're not Nazi skinheads.
01:22:15Like, that's absolutely not what we are.
01:22:17But he's with these group of kids
01:22:18that kind of have to be reminded of this.
01:22:20If you got to tell people every day
01:22:25that you're not a Nazi,
01:22:26there might be something else you're doing wrong.
01:22:28Right?
01:22:29It might not be 100% everybody else's fault.
01:22:33You know?
01:22:36And I feel like, in general,
01:22:38as people age,
01:22:40they typically just become
01:22:41a more cartoonish version of themselves.
01:22:44And so I think Gavin has become, you know,
01:22:47a more Gavin version of himself.
01:22:50Did you change?
01:22:53Yeah, of course.
01:22:54I was fucking 20.
01:22:56I was a little kid, yeah.
01:22:58Now I'm just, like, this
01:22:59dumber 40-year-old version
01:23:03of a little kid who can't, yeah.
01:23:05He's just, like, rehashing his past,
01:23:07which is only 10 years old.
01:23:09Yeah.
01:23:14Again, if you don't change
01:23:16when the whole world around you changes,
01:23:17like, to what degree is that a virtue?
01:23:20Yeah.
01:23:20A CIDADE NO BRASIL
01:23:50A CIDADE NO BRASIL
01:24:20A CIDADE NO BRASIL
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