- 2 weeks ago
A number of mavericks believe that unexplained phenomena like remote viewing and near-death experiences have a strange connection to UFOs - and this connection threatens to change everything we thought we knew about human consciousness.
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00:00Holy crap, look!
00:19It was a perfect triangle just floating across the sky, way up there.
00:23I think it was a spaceship of some sort.
00:26It was an alien's first thing, I thought, but it scared the heck out of me.
00:32There was a lot of talk about the Tic Tac actually being US technology.
00:39And that is very interesting to me because you ask the pilots and they say there is no possibility that that could be a technology we've made.
00:47If something doesn't look right, we have to revise the way we think about reality, you know?
00:52Jacques, in discussing, he started talking about some of these materials that he had from UAP.
01:01Why would somebody alter magnesium?
01:04And it doesn't sound like something you would go throwing around a beach in Brazil.
01:08When people claim they know what this is about, whether it's some kind of fraud or it's some kind of mechanism, my eyes just roll.
01:17You either don't know what you're talking about or you're lying.
01:21I can't tell you what's going on, but I can tell you this.
01:25If we ever figure it out, it's going to change the world.
01:28I can't tell you.
01:33I can't tell you what's going on, but I'm at all.
01:37I'll get you.
01:41I can tell you what it means.
01:44I'm going to tell you how we are now.
01:46I'm going to tell you.
01:47I'm going to tell you what the truth is.
01:48We'll be real.
01:52emptying the world.
01:52What's going onелов haven't i've been det précédent,
01:56But I heard you?
02:57I'd say there's a couple hundred of these slides in here.
03:03We could just go through them one after the other and just look at images.
03:08I am looking at pictorial targets that were likely used for remote viewing subjects to test their remote viewing capacities.
03:20Remote viewing was a kind of military lingo for what an earlier period would have called clairvoyance.
03:28Essentially seeing what's happening at a distance.
03:30And the U.S. government and various U.S. intelligence agencies got very interested in these capacities in the 1970s.
03:40It's partly because the Soviet Union was interested.
03:43And so there was a kind of parapsychological space race.
03:47The intelligence agencies basically trained a number of military professionals to become clairvoyant spies on the Soviet Union.
03:59That's essentially what remote viewing is.
04:01Russell Tard is a laser physicist.
04:05He worked with another physicist named Hal Putov.
04:08They're the ones who ran the remote viewing program.
04:12Hal Putov, he's in his 80s now.
04:14He has been involved a long, long time doing studies on remote viewing.
04:18All of it for the government.
04:21He knows a lot.
04:23He's a deep insider.
04:24The person who really led that program after Russell stepped down donated 50 to 100 boxes of declassified material.
04:32It's all right here.
04:36Operation Stargate, the CIA's so-called psychic spying program, went on for about 20 years.
04:41And its budget got cut during the Clinton administration when the post-Cold War atmosphere was producing budget cuts in the military and intelligence.
04:54And there is a debate to this day over the validity of the results that emerged from Stargate.
05:03They would put these in a slide machine.
05:05They'd throw the image up on the slide.
05:06And they would ask the remote viewer who would be in another room or another building, what was the image up on the screen at that moment.
05:13And they would have some system for determining whether it was a hit, a miss, or a near miss, or a near hit.
05:21People think that's all, you know, bogus, but it's not.
05:25If you look at the actual studies and read the documents, remote viewing got great results.
05:32Essentially, it's the idea that we live in this infinitely entangled universe at the quantum level.
05:43Psychic espionage is really just a matter of indexing a kind of a place in time, in time-space,
05:52that allows the psyche of the investigator to target that.
05:57I'm Hal Puthoff from Stanford University, Ph.D. in quantum electronics.
06:09Remote viewing, in the old days, used to call remote viewing ESP.
06:15That is, the ability of people to sense things or to pick up information from remote locations or hidden locations and so on.
06:23I wasn't particularly interested in the topic.
06:27It was only because there was an individual who had demonstrated the ability to, quote,
06:33see inside a device the very high-tech magnetometer at Stanford University.
06:41And so this fellow by the name of Ingo Swann was asked to demonstrate his ability, and he did.
06:47It was absolutely amazing.
06:48To me, as a physicist, I can't imagine anything like this occurring.
06:53Well, suddenly, the CIA descended on my doorstep, and they said, oh, have we been looking for you?
06:59And I said, why?
07:00What did I do?
07:01And they said, well, we saw that early in your career you were a naval intelligence officer, you used to be an NSA.
07:08So I was an SRI, and I was a physicist instead of a psychologist, which they took to be a plus.
07:14And they saw that this experiment occurred, and they said, what we're dealing with is that Russians have been spending millions of dollars at their best institutes or some of their best people for years on, quote, ESP research.
07:31So we're wondering, would you be willing to set up a small program to look into it?
07:37So I founded the program in 72.
07:39And it turned out there were remote viewers who were able to see into hidden places and remote locations with some degree of accuracy.
07:52I mean, not 100 percent, but more than an ordinary physicist could seemingly account for.
07:58And so we agreed to do a series of experiments.
08:01Here, the experiment is repeated, this time with Puthoff as a sender.
08:06This is a drawing that Geller has made to correspond to the target object.
08:12As you can see, he is quite elated about getting the right answer.
08:18Here in the laboratory notebook, on the left side of the page, you see the original target, and on the right, Geller's responses.
08:26This is not a collection of correct answers out of a long series of correct and incorrect responses.
08:32This is actually the total run of pictures in a series.
08:35It is interesting that there is often a mirror of symmetry.
08:38I was at SRI before them, working on the ARPANET, which became the Internet.
08:49SRI had machine number two on the Internet, okay?
08:53So it was a significant place at the time in software development for what became, you know, the Internet.
08:59The director of our branch came into my office, closed the door, and said there is a proposal to do parapsychology research at SRI.
09:11He said, let me draw you a picture.
09:14And he went to my white ball, and he drew a scale.
09:19On one side, he put a big cube, and he wrote $100 million, which was his budget.
09:24And then he put a little dot here that said $1 million, which was a research that put off a tag with it to do parapsychology.
09:36And he said, we're going to jeopardize $100 million of research with IBM, AT&T, Intel, Xerox, major corporate America companies.
09:49By doing this research on parapsychology, where, you know, we may be subject to a lot of ridicule, we may not find anything.
09:59And he said, you've been able to keep your reputation, you know, in science when studying UFOs.
10:06How did you do it?
10:07And I said, well, you know, the solution may be to keep that research classified.
10:17Not because there were big secrets, you know, for the next atom bomb, but because if you announce it on day one, everybody is going to attack us.
10:28We should let Puthoff and Targ run a laboratory here.
10:33It became an extraordinary program at SRI, Stanford Research Institute, on remote viewing.
10:45We ended up training Army intelligence remote viewers to learn to tap into this.
10:51And so that's how the whole remote viewing program took off.
10:54One of our very first operational cases that we did for the CIA was they wanted to know about a research facility in the Soviet Union.
11:11Semipalatinsk was the name of it.
11:13We had no idea what was there, but we had a really good remote viewer.
11:23So we just gave him coordinates and said, tell us what you see there.
11:28He drew a giant crane, he said it was so large, and ran over the top of a building and said that they were building these giant spheres there, 60 foot in diameter.
11:44And so he gave a really terrific description and turned out the information was really quite accurate.
11:51So the CIA spent a week having him wander through this facility in the Soviet Union, describing everything he saw.
11:57And so it was evaluated by a number of elements of the agency and other outside contractors.
12:04And they were absolutely amazed.
12:06That was a major thing.
12:16Another critical one was that there was a Libyan pilot who flew Soviet airplanes.
12:26And he was going to turn the plane over to us.
12:31But after he was in the air, he got cold feet.
12:34And he realized, oh my God, the KGB will, you know, chase me the rest of my life.
12:38So he just bailed out of the plane.
12:40And he said, okay, I had a problem with the plane.
12:43I just bailed out.
12:45So the plane, it just ran until it ran out of gas and then crashed in Africa.
12:52Shortly after Carter left the presidency, he was addressing a group of students at Emory University in Atlanta.
12:59And he related the account of how a Soviet spy plane had crashed in Central Africa.
13:09And this spy plane contained lots of valuable espionage technology.
13:15So there were recon teams from both the U.S. side and the Soviet side that were racing to find this wreckage and either secure it or procure it.
13:24When President Carter was briefed on the plane going down, Stan Turner, who was the CIA director, said, well, you know, we've got these remote viewers.
13:33Maybe they can find the plane.
13:35So we put two of our best remote viewers on it.
13:38Long story short, they made an X on a map that was within three miles of where that plane crashed.
13:43So the CIA was able to go in and get the plane, of course, before the Russians even knew where it was.
13:48So those are the kind of operational things that we would do as they came up.
13:56Data that, in fact, the Russians were doing exactly this kind of stuff.
14:00In fact, when the CIA came to me at SRI and said, we'd like for you to look into this, they plopped a telephone-sized book down on my desk that was full of Russian work in this area.
14:14And so that's why they knew that they took it seriously.
14:16Afterwards, Carter was subjected to mockery.
14:25The notion that you could believe that this remote viewing program had actually produced actionable intelligence was held up to ridicule.
14:34But, of course, Carter is a nuclear engineer.
14:36He's speaking from a place of informed inquiry.
14:41He is at the top level of executive oversight.
14:47He has access to the information.
14:49This is obviously an informed account.
14:51But it's very easy for an observer to just say, oh, there goes old Jimmy again talking about little green men or what have you.
15:00It's the easiest thing in the world.
15:02The stigma that was originally, you know, forefront for things like ESP research, remote viewing, UFO research, and so on, was very high back in, you know, the 60s and 70s.
15:18But because now it's become clear, and much of the information in both the remote viewing program was highly classified, and in the UAP program was highly classified, since much of that has been declassified, is now available to the public.
15:36Scientists are beginning to realize that, well, there appears to be more to this than we thought.
15:43When people say that the government had no interest in UFOs and UAP, we think, well, we know that they were interested in psychic abilities and experimenting with LSD and psychedelics and all sorts of weird and wonderful things from decades ago.
16:03Why wouldn't they be interested in UFOs and UAP?
16:05What's really fascinating about that is the overlap between the people who were part of these programs back in, like, the 70s and the UFO community as it exists now, the people whose names most people will know that are still in the community, are still going on podcasts, are still talking about this.
16:28A lot of them were involved in these remote viewing programs decades ago.
16:32I tend in the direction that if there were a major planetary UAP event that forced all governments and all peoples to realize that this is an absolutely real thing.
16:47I'm of the opinion that it would be more likely to unite our viewpoints than to result in panic.
16:56These UAP events are definitely beyond our engineering, but not beyond our physics.
17:04I made a list of what are all the weird things that people have claimed associated with observation of UAP, and there are a lot of weird things.
17:13And suppose Einstein's equations for general relativity, you know, black holes and astrophysics, to access those things that general relativity says that in principle you could with warp drive and wormholes and all that kind of stuff, takes enormous amounts of concentrated energy and infinitesimal volumes.
17:34And we just don't have that.
17:36So I would say it's not beyond our physics, we can understand the physics, but definitely beyond our engineering.
17:41So given that that's the case, that's another reason why I think the source of the phenomena is not black programs in Russia, China, or the U.S., but really from some other source.
17:55Oh, my God, what was that?
18:02So, do you see yourself these days as a believer?
18:07Yeah, am I a believer in UFO?
18:09I mean, this is such a funny, funny, funny word.
18:12To a scientist, do I have data that makes me think there's something there of value to examine and come to grips with?
18:19Absolutely.
18:20Does that make me, quote, a believer?
18:23Well, I mean, for a scientist, it's data that counts, not opinion about the data.
18:29So, we need more data.
18:36Looking at remote viewing, even how the government viewed it as successful, if not scientifically understood,
18:42it makes me think of the brain scans given to Gary Nolan of various military personnel had experienced UFO or UAP events.
18:52He was looking at changes to the part of the brain that could possibly be linked to intuition.
18:58I guess what I'm getting at is, are some of us special in some way?
19:03I think the human being is the ultimate special effects projector.
19:10I think human beings are able to project special effects, real special effects, into the physical environment and often change things physically.
19:19And that's why I always say, I think the human is really the superhuman.
19:24But on a kind of unconscious, kind of unaware level.
19:28What remote viewing or precognition or any of these abilities strongly implies is that we can actually get information from great distances in space and or time.
19:41You would think that there must be special people that are able to do this.
19:45In fact, what we found was it's sort of a bell curve.
19:48So, just like with athletic ability or music ability, everyone seems to have this to some degree.
19:54I mean, you've got superstars at one end of the bell curve and duds at the other end.
19:59But to some degree, anyone could be trained.
20:02Well, okay, that's, what do you do with that?
20:06I mean, that radically shifts what you think a human being is.
20:09And I think that's why it's resisted.
20:14If you study religion, you know, there are a number of what I would call universals in the sense that they happen everywhere as far as we can see back.
20:22And one of the most common religious rituals is divination.
20:26The ability to know it's going to happen before it happens.
20:32Modern writers are very gifted at explaining their own experiences.
20:38The person I always write about is Mark Twain.
20:41Twain, Samuel Clemens, was viciously funny and critical of everything.
20:48But he was completely convinced that he had had these precognitive experiences.
20:53He called it mental telegraphy.
20:56Because he knew if he wrote about it, it would be made fun of.
20:59And so there's this really funny moment where he gives this essay called Mental Telegraphy to a very famous magazine in the 19th century.
21:08And he asks, they publish it anonymously.
21:11And you can just see the editor going like, you're Mark Twain.
21:15I'm not going to do that.
21:16The precognitive dream he relates is actually about his brother's death.
21:21It's not a happy event.
21:23It's a tragic event.
21:25He linked this phenomenon to his own literary creativity, by the way.
21:29He got ideas for stories through channels that were not normal.
21:35But he didn't have some kind of religious model for it.
21:38He just felt this was part of reality, part of what he did.
21:42You've written about this idea of other dimensions or realms from the very beginning.
21:52But it was fiction, right?
21:54I wrote a book called Subespace, and it got the Jules Verne Prize in France.
22:00But the idea was that a group of scientists in France were aware of strange lights that were seen outside,
22:12but they also came inside houses and inside buildings.
22:16And they couldn't understand what those were.
22:20This is 1961, 1962.
22:24I wanted to posit the concept that those were not necessarily ETs, that it was something else.
22:33It turns out that today, people are seeing globes of light.
22:38They become material when they are here.
22:41The rest of the time, they are not material,
22:44which is why they can go through this wall.
22:47And they can transform into lights, or they can transform into globes, into balls of light.
22:56Not in our normal universe, but in a subset of the universe that I call subspace.
23:04And these creatures exist in subspace.
23:07And they can come into our world through a number of different media.
23:13Some of which are flying saucers.
23:18This is a debate that people are beginning to have now, in the United States.
23:26Jacques Vallée has been the primary person who's brought up, let's have a broader viewpoint,
23:32that maybe it isn't just ETs coming from some galaxy far away.
23:37You know, maybe it's interdimensional.
23:42Whether it's interdimensional, time travelers from the future,
23:45or maybe some sequestered group hiding out below the seabed or something.
23:51I think we have to open up our mental telescope to take in more than just, you know,
23:57wayfarers coming from other galaxies.
24:00There's a lot of different versions of the interdimensional hypothesis.
24:04That's a tough one because we don't actually know what other dimensions are,
24:09or if they even exist.
24:10It's kind of like string theory and quantum theory,
24:13but we don't actually have any proof that they exist.
24:15They just kind of help us solve problems at this point.
24:18And so that hypothesis can kind of take any weirdness that you put on it.
24:23I was studying advanced physics for a PhD,
24:27and the advanced physics says there are more than four dimensions.
24:32You know, there are more than just time and space.
24:35And there may be other universes.
24:37I mean, this is classical physics.
24:39It's not science fiction.
24:41They don't relate it to UFOs, but maybe they should, you know, at some point.
24:48I think that actually one of the biggest secrets about the UFO phenomenon
24:52is that it's not about craft and technology.
24:56That the people who know the most about it
24:58and have been doing this the longest,
25:00the thing that they're actually interested in
25:03is consciousness and human potential.
25:06That those are the things that they care about the most.
25:09There's a convergence today between the question of UFOs
25:20and the question of extra physical experience.
25:24When I was growing up, the outlook on UFOs,
25:28if one took seriously the UFO thesis, was, well, maybe they're ET craft,
25:33and what would it take for some kind of mechanical vehicle to span such distances.
25:41But in the past few decades, I would say that the thesis around UFO phenomena,
25:52if one takes seriously that it's something that goes outside of ordinary observation,
25:58is that these experiences might be from different intersections of time
26:04or different dimensions, which, when first said, sounds very, very far out.
26:09But we've known since the age of Einstein that time is conditional,
26:16that one has to logically account for the existence of an infinitude of simultaneous events.
26:24People will talk about cosmic wormholes whereby you introduce some exotic matter
26:30into a mix of events, and you're able to bend space-time.
26:36These are all just conceptual models, but it seems to me that the concepts are better developed
26:41around interdimensionality than they are around extraterrestriality,
26:46which doesn't mean that only one thing is happening.
26:49There could be a whole complexity of things that are occurring.
26:55The fact is, if we are experiencing evidence from academic, psychical research, ESP research,
27:05that the psyche is capable of receiving and transmitting information in anomalous ways,
27:12that may indicate the capacity of the psyche to travel among different intersections of time,
27:20from which that information presumably emanates.
27:24That is possibly parallel to exactly what's going on when people report UFO encounters or abduction experiences.
27:36So, part of the complexity of human nature is that we are all conditioned to think in terms of magic bullet theories behind events,
27:46as though to say there's just one antecedent, and if we can find that, we'll get to the truth,
27:51whereas there's probably a complexity of antecedents.
27:55I was very into space.
28:09I wanted to go to the moon, I wanted to be with NASA, every bit of that.
28:13In college, I started out in astrophysics, but then I spent a summer working in the hospital,
28:19or in the operating room as an orally, and I really fell in love with taking care of patients.
28:25My dad, of course, was a globally renowned neurosurgeon,
28:28and so I knew how much he loved working with patients, and he loved neurosurgery.
28:33In the back of my mind, I thought, well, I'll go to medical school, but I'm not going to go into neurosurgery.
28:38That lasted until I did a neurosurgery rotation for two weeks, and I fell in love with it.
28:44And, you know, I've never looked back.
28:48You go in, and in one day, with your hands, you try to affect someone's life for the better.
29:00Probably every two or three months, I would hear fairly compelling stories of near-death experiences,
29:06or shared death, or after-death communications that should have gotten my attention.
29:11But I kept dismissing them, thinking, no, you know, that's wishful thinking.
29:16We don't have any way of proving that.
29:18No, we don't seem to have memories of past lives.
29:20I don't know that I believe in reincarnation.
29:26Certainly having my own personal experience went light years towards opening me up to accepting and admitting this beautiful kind of expansion in our knowledge of ourselves and the universe.
29:37It was such a mundane day.
29:42It was one of the most unremarkable days you can imagine, other than just being a beautiful family day.
29:48But then, you know, 4.30 in the morning, November 10th, all of that changed very dramatically, very quickly.
29:56What exactly was the diagnosed condition you had, and what is the prognosis for that condition?
30:08Well, I had, it was a gram-negative bacterial meningoencephalitis, basically the worst kind of meningitis to have.
30:17For E. coli meningitis, the numbers are well up there over 50% for the people who die from it.
30:24But it's especially bad for people who, for example, spend a week in coma, like I did.
30:30In fact, when the three doctors who wrote the case report, they sent it to the Journal of Nervous and Mental Diseases for publication September 2018,
30:38the, the peer-reviewed scientific editors said, wait a minute, this case is absurd.
30:43Nothing like this is, precedes it in the medical literature.
30:46How do you explain this recovery?
30:48And they said it's because he had a near-death experience.
30:51So it all started in a very primitive way.
30:58There came a slowly spinning white light.
31:03This white light had fine silvery and golden tendrils, and it came towards me, very slowly spinning.
31:10And as it did so, I realized that it came with a perfect musical melody.
31:14The first time it happened, the light portal took me up into this brilliant ultra-real gateway valley.
31:23It had many earth-like features.
31:25I mean, it was, there was this meadow that was lush and fertile and beautiful, surrounded by forest,
31:31waterfalls in the crystal blue ponds, beautiful billowing clouds of pure color against a blue-black velvety sky.
31:38Thousands of beings dancing down in this meadow.
31:43I had no body awareness at any point.
31:47I was simply an observer.
31:48And what I observed, I was a speck of awareness on a butterfly wave.
31:52There were millions of other butterflies.
31:56They were looping and spiraling in these vast formations.
31:59And the best part about it, as I've said, I wasn't alone.
32:03You feel that, like a big hello from this God force of pure love.
32:08I was told, you're not here to stay.
32:12We'll teach you many things.
32:13You'll be going back.
32:15And that happened.
32:17I would just tumble back down.
32:20But it was by remembering the musical notes of the melody that I could conjure up that light portal and the spiritual realm.
32:31What is your first memory coming out of the melody?
32:35The actual kind of awakening that my family witnessed, where I was fighting the ventilator and then when they pulled the breathing tube out, I said, thank you.
32:44I have only the vaguest glimmer of a memory of that.
32:48Although my youngest sister, Phyllis, who was there, told me I did very shortly, like literally within 10 or 20 minutes of the breathing tube coming out.
32:55She said, I was sitting there on the bed, looking around at everyone in the room, and I would look them in the eyes and say, don't worry.
33:02All is well.
33:04What I'd been through was astonishing.
33:10I wanted to tell everybody about it.
33:11But my doctors were trying to tell me, oh, yes, you were very sick.
33:14Your brain was soaking in pus.
33:16We don't even know how you're coming back to us now, but you can forget about it because the dying brain plays all kinds of tricks.
33:21I just thought, okay, hallucination, vast hallucination, bad meningitis.
33:27I get it.
33:28And that's what I tried to tell my son.
33:30He had been at the bedside while I was deep in coma.
33:33He knew something very unusual was going on.
33:37And he told me, write everything down before you read anyone else's near-death account.
33:43So I forced myself.
33:45I didn't read any near-death experiences.
33:47And I just wrote down about 20,000 words over five to six weeks of my memories of my deep experience.
33:54There are very interesting corollaries for people that have had experiences with non-human intelligence or UAP UFOs and those that have had near-death or other forms of out-of-body experience.
34:14And reporting that there seems to be some layer of reality that we can't often perceive that is just right around us all the time.
34:26And we have a problem discussing this.
34:30People say, oh, it's like some other dimension or it's some higher dimension.
34:37And then somebody will inevitably say, well, what is a dimension?
34:42How can you say that it's a dimension and how can you possibly know that it's higher than ours?
34:48When a physicist or a neurosurgeon has an experience, you listen to them.
34:57But when an ordinary person has such experience, you don't listen to them.
35:01And I'm like, why?
35:03Why?
35:04It's the same experience.
35:07The answer to the why is it's the culture.
35:11It's how knowledge is being constructed at that particular moment and how authority is being delegated.
35:16But it actually has nothing to do with the actual experiences or with what's being communicated.
35:27We have to get to a common point because there are so many millions of people that have had experiences of some just adjacent realm to ours.
35:36And by merely putting experiencers of one modality near experiencers of another modality,
35:45that conversational chain opens up.
35:51The near-death experience is of interest to those of us who are involved in examining these edgy topics in human function.
36:01Some of the cases are very famous and known, and some of them are absolutely staggering.
36:07For example, someone who is blind from birth, never saw anything.
36:14During a cardiac arrest, describes the experience of lifting out of the body and seeing things, and then describing them in detail.
36:22I mean, as a physicist, I can't even imagine, in principle, I would think, well, unless your brain has been, you know, processed to interpret optical images.
36:34I mean, I can't even imagine how that could occur, but that was pretty compelling.
36:39The pre-coma me would have said basically that the brain takes sensory input, like from eyes, ears, touch, balance systems, et cetera,
36:50assembles that in kind of a version of the now involving physical body.
36:54But then you have access to memories of all the events you've been through.
36:58And the piece I would have missed tremendously that I know now since my coma is very real are the aspects of conscious awareness and information access that go beyond the kin of our physical senses.
37:12All of that speaks to the issue that we are somehow connected.
37:16And as a quantum physicist, I say, ah, quantum entanglement, you know.
37:20We're somehow connected to the universe around us well beyond what we usually take cognizance of just based on our typical five senses.
37:34A Las Vegas businessman is plopping down a million dollars to find out if there is evidence of an afterlife.
37:40Space entrepreneur Robert Bigelow has announced the creation of a new institute that is devoted to research into whether human consciousness survives physical death.
37:50Robert Bigelow is an entrepreneur.
37:52He has made most of his money in real estate and hotels.
37:57And he's done a lot of work in the aerospace area.
38:02He just a few years ago decided to turn his attention and his resources toward investigating the evidence for survival of death.
38:11Robert Bigelow has been interested in UFOs for a very long time, I think since he was a young man basically.
38:17And he decided to offer financial support to the study of UFOs and he set up a group called the National Institute for Discovery Science.
38:26NIDS is the abbreviation in which he brought together some of the best people in the field, among them people like Hal Puthoff and Jacques Vallée and a lot of people we're familiar with today.
38:36And that's where I met people like Willie Streber, John Mack and of course Jacques and I were part of that.
38:45Mr. Bigelow's had a long-standing interest in paranormal phenomena and UFO or alien type phenomena and the paranormal aspects of this.
38:57If you sort of trace it back, it is a lot of the same people.
39:03I mean, Harry Reid knew Bob Bigelow.
39:07I think he influenced Harry Reid.
39:10He also was the contractor, not surprisingly, that worked for the AATIP program at the Pentagon that Harry Reid set up.
39:16As it turns out, Robert Bigelow separately set up something called Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies.
39:22He decided to put up a lot of money, I mean millions of dollars, to investigate near-death experience.
39:29Why is it important that somebody like Robert Bigelow, somebody with the means that Robert Bigelow has,
39:36that he's providing the funding for this kind of research?
39:39There isn't funding anywhere else.
39:41Private individuals, especially private individuals with means, are some of the only people who are willing to take a risk on this
39:49because they're not worried about their reputation.
39:53So they have the freedom to take risks, to go in experimental, edgy directions.
40:00There's not that kind of willingness to explore within the business world.
40:05In the world of startups, like we think about people taking risks and, you know, trying new technologies,
40:09but even that all is super conservative compared to doing this kind of research.
40:16When you lose loved ones, it does provoke that question, well, did they survive?
40:22And it's happened to me.
40:24Robert Bigelow has had tragedy in his family.
40:28He's lost some loved ones, including his wife.
40:31And so, yeah, I think absolutely it's not just an intellectual quest.
40:36It's a very personal quest.
40:40Just a few months ago, Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, the chief of Arrow, resigned.
40:45This is the number one UFO hunter for the government, trying to make sense of all this.
40:50And he did take a parting shot on the way out the door at a group of people who all know each other for decades,
40:57who are kind of at the tipping point of this new world we're in.
41:01It's unfortunate that he felt a need to do that.
41:04That's melon. That's valet.
41:07Mm-hmm.
41:08We've talked about it, right?
41:09Mm-hmm. Yeah, but those people were only the catalyst.
41:12They aren't the ones still moving the narrative, right?
41:16So all those people have done, I mean, this in a positive way, they brought others in.
41:21Others who have looked at the data and said, this is worth studying.
41:24This morning, the former leader of the Pentagon's UFO tracking division
41:28is casting some doubt on the existence of alien craft.
41:31Sean Kirkpatrick is the former director of Arrow,
41:35and he has since retired, but he's been doing some press.
41:38After the hearing, Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick refuted Grush's claims
41:42in a letter published on his personal LinkedIn page.
41:45He wrote Arrow has yet to find any credible evidence
41:48to support the allegations of a reverse engineering program
41:51for non-human technology.
41:54Sean Kirkpatrick put a negative spin on it and said,
41:57well, there's just this group of groupies who are, you know,
42:01big on UFOs and ETs and so on, and they just keep talking to each other
42:05and sharing data back and forth.
42:07That's the scientific method. Nothing wrong with that.
42:10So there's kind of a disconnect there between his statement about it
42:16versus the people who are actually involved.
42:19And yet at the same time, Arrow, the office that he oversaw,
42:24published that there's a number of cases we don't understand,
42:28including these metal balls that seem to be flying around our battlefields.
42:32And they say, we can't figure it out, but we're going to tell you it's not E.T.
42:44because we haven't proven it.
42:45But it's still moving in ways that we don't know how to do it.
42:49What else do you call it?
42:52If you want to solve this mystery, if you want to get to the bottom of this,
42:56the best thing you could possibly do would be to get the U.S. intelligence community
43:01to take this on, to find answers, because they have capabilities that are exquisite.
43:09We have just insane sort of capabilities that the public often doesn't know about,
43:14but we've got satellites in geosynchronous orbit and low-Earth orbit
43:18and highly elliptical orbits and things under the ocean and air platforms
43:22and new generations of things.
43:24We have 17 different space surveillance capabilities.
43:27Nobody in the science world has capabilities like that.
43:31And I think that gives us hope that within our lifetimes we may really get to the bottom of this.
43:39It's clear to me at a very high level, and we're talking the National Security Council
43:44and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence,
43:47that both of them have directed, we do not want to disclose all that we know about UAP.
43:51So that is reflected in the latest Arrow report, for example,
43:55and what Sean Kirkpatrick is now saying and coming out.
43:58I'm sure he has some alignment or association with those two offices.
44:03It seems to me that he is part of the disinformation campaign.
44:08And it's clear the government does not want to disclose.
44:11Well, they can say it's not a UFO because maybe they've identified it.
44:21And they know that what it is, right?
44:24We're in some kind of a race, and the race is with destiny, human destiny,
44:39and the destiny of whoever or whatever is here.
44:42You have the Defense Department resisting every step of the way
44:46because they've got so much to hide.
44:48And the embarrassment when the truth comes out is going to be, to say the least, fantastic.
44:55Imagine if you did have a recovered craft.
44:58It'd be something the equivalent of taking something back to, you know, the 1700s
45:03and dropping them a brand-new Harley Davidson motorcycle.
45:06But they ain't going to figure it out.
45:08And they're not going to figure out the gasoline.
45:10They're not going to figure out anything.
45:12They might kick it over and it, ba-boom, you know, and kicks off.
45:15But that's sort of like where we're at right now.
45:18Some people think, oh, the government has the full picture,
45:21and they just don't want to tell us.
45:23I think it's just as likely they're reluctant to tell us what they know
45:26because of a lack of knowledge.
45:28It's because they don't have the answers, and it scares them
45:32because it's like, where is this stuff from?
45:34We don't really know.
45:36I have classified military information on this captured flying saucer
45:42that's fully intact, fully punctured.
45:45Can you say anything else?
45:46Yes, there's a limit. There's a limit.
45:48I've got to be very careful.
45:49Can we go all the way to the limit?
45:51Well, that's pretty much the limit.
45:54And I can't, I've got to be careful.
45:57Regardless of what happens in Washington, D.C. with the disclosure narrative,
46:01and who knows where that's going to go, the cat has been let out of the bag.
46:05I think that there is a growing number of people who are picking this up
46:09as a real legitimate line of inquiry.
46:13These are anthropologists and, you know, religious studies people and philosophers.
46:20We're seeing people teaching UFO classes in colleges.
46:26And so this is a brand new world.
46:29We should be constructing the arguments in a way that will convince the public that we're serious about it.
46:47You can't claim a scientific conclusion if you don't produce the science that you used to come to the conclusion for other people to verify.
46:59Otherwise, it's just an anecdote.
47:03You are passing off as truth a story.
47:12I actually don't think we'll ever get a scientific model for this because it's not science.
47:23We can go outside right now and I can try to prove to you that there are stars in the sky.
47:28And you'll just look at me like, you're crazy.
47:32And if we couldn't go out at night, if we were bound to noon, you would win the argument every single time.
47:41So it's actually the context that matters.
47:44It's not me telling you there are stars in the sky.
47:46You won't ever believe me.
47:48Because there's no way to go out at night in that model.
47:51And so that's really what we need.
47:52We need a way to go out at night and look at the stars.
47:55And we just don't have that yet.
47:57Science is restricted to the sun, to cognitive reason and the senses.
48:02And this is about altered states that we don't actually know how to study because they don't follow those rules.
48:09It may be that all of these experiences, whether it's a UFO encounter, whether it's so-called poltergeist activity, whether it's a near-death experience or reflections or snapshots in a certain sense of this extra physical field in which the psyche participates.
48:35From my perspective, it's a very exciting time because we're experiencing not only the mainstreaming of the UFO thesis, but the conversation around UFOs and the conversation around the psychical or the extra physical are starting to converge.
48:54And that's a hallmark of our time.
49:05What's going on here?
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