Assalamu Alaikum brothers and sisters, In today's video, we had the second video with Joram Van Klaveren, where we had a conversation about Islam and Christianity. Enjoy Watching..
#JesusIsInTeamIslam #Islam #AntiIslam #InterfaithDialogue #Diversity #Unity #ReligiousTolerance #CounterIslamophobia #FaithAndPolitics #SpiritualAwakening #OpenMind #CulturalUnderstanding #PeacefulCoexistence #BreakingBarriers #HumanityFirst #RespectForAll #UnityInDiversity #ToleranceMatters #InterreligiousDialogue
#JesusIsInTeamIslam #Islam #AntiIslam #InterfaithDialogue #Diversity #Unity #ReligiousTolerance #CounterIslamophobia #FaithAndPolitics #SpiritualAwakening #OpenMind #CulturalUnderstanding #PeacefulCoexistence #BreakingBarriers #HumanityFirst #RespectForAll #UnityInDiversity #ToleranceMatters #InterreligiousDialogue
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00What would you say to a person who says that your prophet plagiarized from the
00:03Old Testament and the New Testament and came up with the Quran? Is Sharia really
00:07the same thing that most people think of? If not, what is Sharia?
00:11Because I really, really didn't want to become a Muslim. I really didn't want.
00:15Even after I saw all the arguments, all the facts, I still didn't want to become a
00:19Muslim. But in the end, I ended up becoming a Muslim. When I look at
00:23Christianity, I always see it as a book with a lot of truth, but not the complete
00:28truth. Some people ask me, why do you left the team of Jesus? And I told them,
00:34well, I didn't left the team of Jesus. Jesus is in our team as well.
00:38As-salamu alaykum Brother Yoram. Thank you for accepting our invitation again.
00:46Our first interview with you had a huge viral impact with more than 4 million views now.
00:51Were you expecting such an interest or were you surprised?
00:54Yeah, I was surprised. I didn't expect it to go viral in 4 million
00:58views, of course, a lot. But alhamdulillah, it's a good thing, I think, because perhaps
01:03it helped spreading the message, explain a little bit of why I converted and
01:09especially what Islam is in a very basic way, because of course I'm not a scholar,
01:14but perhaps it helped.
01:15Can you share with us some of the feedback you received, either positive or negative,
01:19and which one was the most interesting for you?
01:22Well, there were like a dozen people who said, well, for me, that was the last push. So they
01:28took shahada. Yeah. So there are a few people that became Muslim and not because of our
01:34interview, of course, but it helped because they literally said that was the last push.
01:38So yeah, that's, I think, a remarkable thing. And of course, there was some negative feedback
01:43as well. But that's, that's normal, I think. But the most remarkable feedback came from a
01:47guy who was a Buddhist. It was very funny. And he told me, well, I never looked into religion.
01:54He said, I want a Buddhist. And when you look at the core concepts of Buddhism, of course,
01:58in a way, it's atheistic because goal, so to say, of Buddhism is to go to Nirvana. And that
02:05means you disappear in a way. And he said, well, I always found it like spiritual atheism. And of course,
02:11that's, that's, that's what he said. But he said that was the first time that I thought, well,
02:15perhaps there is something else. Perhaps there is a creator. And that was, and he was looking into,
02:20and he is one of the guys who took shahada in the end. So it was very funny to hear from,
02:25in the Dutch context, it's very agnostic, very secular. It has, like say, a historical Christian
02:31background. And then there's a Buddhist guy in the Netherlands who becomes a Muslim.
02:34Now, let me ask some questions that are frequently asked by disbelievers. What would you say to a person who
02:39says that your prophet plagiarized from the Old Testament and the New Testament and came up with
02:43the Quran? Yeah, no, it's, it's, that's really impossible. Of course, I looked in that, looked
02:49into that argument as well, especially when I was like a Islam critic. But when you look at the Quran
02:57and the way it is constructed, it's almost impossible for someone, especially when you don't have a
03:04computer to make sure that there is like unity in it. And there is a lot of unity, whether people
03:09believe it or not, even very skeptic people from the Western tradition, even all the Eastern tradition,
03:16and I'm not talking about Muslim countries, they say there is, it's a remarkable book. So for someone
03:21who didn't have a computer, who was illiterate in a way, it is impossible to create something like that.
03:28If he did, it is a miracle on its own. But when it comes to people who say he copied stuff like that,
03:34well, the New Testament, for example, wasn't there yet. There was no New Testament, it wasn't translated
03:39into Arabic. And if he really was illiterate, how could he know? And if there were perhaps two, three people
03:45telling him some stories about Christianity, there is so much deep theological stuff in the Quran
03:52related to Christianity, that's impossible. Because again, there was no New Testament yet, so he couldn't
03:57copy it at all. It was impossible. I always see, like, when I look at Christianity, I always see
04:03it as a book with a lot of truth, but not the complete truth. So when I look at, for example,
04:09the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Quran, and I put it next to it, it's like a puzzle. So
04:13where I miss some things and things are a little bit changed in the Old Testament and the New Testament.
04:18And when Islam came with the Quran, it corrected the first two revelations, so to say. So it completed
04:25my religion. And it's, of course, it's in the Quran itself, but today I completed your religion.
04:29But also when you look at it from a theological perspective, even from Christianity, as an ex-Christian,
04:35of course, I think that counts. So that's true. And the part of Jesus, Isa, he's of course,
04:43in Christianity, a very core person. He is almost the central figure. But he is not absent in Islam,
04:51because some people ask me, why do you left the team of Jesus? That was really a question. And I
04:57told them, well, I didn't left the team of Jesus. Jesus is in our team as well. So, but it's for a lot
05:04of Christians, it's very hard to accept that after Jesus, there was someone else. And if people do
05:09accept that, then it's very easy for them to become Muslim. They also wonder about Sharia. Generally,
05:15they only think of some really harsh punishments, like the ones they see in the media. Is Sharia really the
05:19same thing that most people think of? If not, what is Sharia? Well, of course, I'm not a scholar.
05:25But what I know, when I read and learned about Sharia, they say, well, it's a doctrine of
05:32religious duties. And it's very broad. It has to do with clothing. It has to do with food. It has to do
05:38with praying. It has to do with trade. It has to do with everything. And of course, there's this small
05:43part that has to do with criminal justice as well. But in the West, and it has to do with the propaganda
05:47from way back, like we talked about it in the 16th, 17th century. But up till this day, people are
05:53saying, well, Sharia is this, that. No, that's not Sharia. It's a very, very small part of Sharia.
05:59But that is because Islam is a holistic concept. So it doesn't talk only about the way of the heart.
06:05It's a practical religion. It really fits life here on earth in the dunya. So what it means is that we
06:12have to talk about all these aspects, all these segments of the dunya as well. And criminal justice
06:17is a part of it. And a lot of people in the West often say to me, well, they don't really punish
06:22people. We have people here who committed rape, for example, they only get one year, one year in
06:28prison, one year. And I can imagine if, as a father, if my daughter was raped, I don't want this guy to be
06:34punished one year. I want to suffer punishment, a real punishment. And when I look at other systems,
06:41of course, there are stronger punishments. But that's not what Sharia is about. And again,
06:49you have this concept of shubu-hat, I think. So before someone really is punished in that way,
06:55there are so many factors, so many restrictions that it's almost impossible. So most of the time,
07:02it's only to make sure that people understand this is a very big offensive thing that you are about
07:09to do or that you did. But in the West, they don't see it like that because they don't want to see
07:13Islam for what it is most of the time, especially people who do know Islam in the core, but they
07:19really don't want to be a Muslim. So they take these arguments and they twist it a little bit and make
07:26it seem very scary and stuff like that. But when you look at the Ottoman Empire, for example,
07:31or apostasy, because that's something that a lot of people talk about, right? Yeah, when you look
07:35and when you're an apostate, you get killed, etc. When you compare that, for example, to America,
07:40before it became the United States, there have been a lot of people who were killed there because
07:46they left their religion, because the church there or the state there said, you're not a real Christian
07:51or we're doubting. Look at the Inquisition in Europe. They killed so many people, thousands and
07:56thousands of people. And when you compare this, for example, to the Ottoman Empire, in over the last
08:01400 years of the Ottoman Empire, only three people were punished that way. Three. And when you compare
08:09that to the West, there were thousands and thousands. But still, the idea is Islam is scary
08:14and they kill everybody and the West is sweet and nice. No, that's not the real deal. That's not
08:19factual. It's not historical. But that has to do with propaganda. So, but that's another topic.
08:27They also ask, why do we need laws from God to be ruled justly? Can't we find what is right and
08:31what is wrong on our own? As-salamu alaykum brothers and sisters. We realize that 80% of our audience,
08:37including this video, are not subscribed to our channel. As you know, we are a non-profit organization
08:41and advertisements are disabled on our videos. Towards Eternity is not just a YouTube channel,
08:45but also a medrese. Here we try to educate ourselves and the youth Islamically. So, the only reason
08:50we are asking for this is to spread the truth. It may seem like a small act, but insha'Allah,
08:54it will help us reach millions of people. Now, let's click the like and the subscribe buttons
08:58and let's together walk towards Eternity. They also ask, why do we need laws from God to be ruled
09:04justly? Can't we find what is right and what is wrong on our own? Uh, yeah, it's almost a philosophical
09:10question. No, I don't think people can do that because people are very changeable. And when you
09:16look at the history, and of course, I'm a Western guy and I live in the West. When I look at the
09:22the history of the West, the times that people thought they could do without a deity, without God,
09:28Allah, it didn't end up very well. When you look at, for example, the DDR, Eastern Germany, or
09:34when you look at the Soviet Union, for example, Russia, they had communism. And in communism,
09:39the state religion was atheism. And there have been a lot of ulama who were killed there because
09:45of the fact that they were Muslim and they were preaching religion and they believed in one God.
09:49They were killed, slaughtered in a horrible way, but also Christian monks. There were a lot of people
09:54really killed. So if people say, well, religion always causes violence. Well, look at the Soviet Union.
10:02They were explicitly not religious and they committed horrible crimes. Over 20 million of their own
10:09people were killed, let alone the other people. They, even in Albania, that used to be a Muslim
10:15country, of course, when they were under the communists. And for Hoxha, he killed a lot of
10:19people in China and North Korea. There are so many contexts. And of course, sometimes things change,
10:26fortunately. But when you look at the idea of people ruling themselves without the guidance of God,
10:34it doesn't end up well. Well, even when you look at the Second World War, when you look at Nazi Germany,
10:40from 1939 till 1945, he ruled practically the continent of Europe. But there were so many people
10:47killed. There were even disabled people who were slaughtered in the most horrible ways. And they
10:53made their man-made rules. Well, that didn't end up very well for those people. So I think that the only
10:59security for mankind to be guided in the correct way so that we can live in peace among each other
11:06is the guidance of Allah, of God. Many non-Muslims in the West think that Islam restricts freedom
11:13because we know that they are known for and proud of a free lifestyle. Do you think this can bring
11:17happiness to humanity? Well, I think Islam is freedom because nobody is completely free. You're always a
11:23slave of something. A slave of your money or a slave of women or a slave of good clothes or a slave of
11:30whatever. Then at least be a slave of the truth. So it's a real freedom. What is freedom? The fact
11:39that you can be drunk or that you can use drugs or that you can commit zinna or whatever. That's not
11:44real. In the end, you will not end up happy. And that's like also with little children. If I ask my child,
11:51what do you want to eat? She says candy. If I would, I would give her candy all day, she will be sick.
11:58And in the end, perhaps she will die because she doesn't get any vitamins. She doesn't have normal
12:03vegetables or proteins or whatever. So the fact that it seems fun doesn't mean that it is fun.
12:11And it doesn't mean that it will help you on the long run. So I think if you are a Muslim,
12:18just try to practice Islam. And I know a lot of people say, when you're a Muslim, you cannot do
12:22this, that you can do almost everything except for a few things. And the things that you are not
12:28allowed to do have to do with your wellbeing. They say, don't drink alcohol, don't use drugs,
12:34don't do that. And it has a reason. It's not to bully you or to make you feel bad. No,
12:39it's to help you to make sure that you are a happy person. If you're a Muslim or even if you're not
12:44Muslim, if you're constantly using drugs or you're using other things like alcohol or you're only
12:51going out, date stuff, clubbing, whatever, most of them, most of these people end up miserable if
12:57they're alone. Because in the end they are looking for a man or a woman and they want to have children,
13:03they want to marry. That's what most people want. But all these things are not going to help you
13:09create sustainable relations where happiness is the central focus point. Because in the end,
13:14I think we want to be what they call the people of Sa'ada, right? You want to be happy. You want
13:19to be near to the creator. The only way that will bring you to that point is Islam. So yeah, I think
13:27people have to reconsider what real freedom is. And the fact that there are so many pop stars in history,
13:35they were very rich. They had a lot of beautiful men or beautiful women. And they used drugs, they
13:42used alcohol. A lot of those people committed suicide. And that's not because all these things
13:47were making them happy. Otherwise they would still be here. And of course that doesn't count for everybody.
13:52But those people have everything in the extreme. And that's what a lot of people think. If I have extreme
13:57freedom, I will do this, this. No, you won't. And if you do, you won't end up the way you want to.
14:03So Islam is a balanced system. And it allows you to do almost everything except for the things that
14:10will make you miserable in the end. So just follow the instructions, so to say, and it will make you a
14:17happier person. And this instruction is called Islam. I have one last request. More than 4 million
14:23people watched your first video with us on YouTube. And nearly as many watched you on Instagram. Among those
14:28people, maybe thousands of them were non-Muslims. I want you to look directly at the camera and talk to
14:35them with a few words. They may have some hesitations about embracing Islam. What would you like to say
14:41to them briefly please? Why Islam? Why they shouldn't hesitate? Looking directly at the camera.
14:46For all the people who are not Muslim yet, who are hesitating, whether you're agnostic or atheist or
14:54Christian or Buddhist or Hindu or whatever, it doesn't matter. I wish for all these people, for you at
15:01home as well, of course Islam. And not because I think you're a bad person or whatever. And I think
15:06that goes for most of the Muslims, it's not that Muslims think you're a bad person if they want to
15:12convey Islam to you. But only, like I said during the interview, Islam really gave me peace of heart
15:18and peace of mind. And a lot of people think, well, it's very hard to become a Muslim. I have to pray
15:24five times and cannot do this or that. I know from experience that it's not that hard. In the end, it made me
15:31happier. And if you really are dedicated and if you really follow the truth, and if this is really
15:37what you believe, things go very easy. So I would suggest and advise people to look into Islam. Study it
15:47objectively. Don't look at what the Muslims do. Look at what the ultimate teacher, Muhammad, peace and
15:53blessings be upon him, did. And let him, in a way, convince you of the truth of Islam.
16:00So how will Islam conquer the hearts of people in the world? What do you think is the way to achieve
16:04this? I think that's truth with a capital T. I don't think we have to do so much. The only thing
16:10we have to do is convey the message. And I always think, and that's what we do here as well in our
16:16coming museum. And in the end, because it's the truth appeals to people. If something is true,
16:22you're attracted to this truth. That's what happened to me as well, because I really, really didn't want
16:26to become a Muslim. I really didn't want. Even after I saw all the arguments, all the facts,
16:31I still didn't want to become a Muslim. But in the end, I ended up becoming a Muslim.
16:35Why didn't you want?
16:36It was like, like I said, in the beginning, after I picked up the Quran and when it fell from
16:42the closet. And it said in Surah 22, this is Ayat 46. And it says, it's not the eyes that are blind,
16:50but the hearts. And that was really what my problem was. And I think that's a problem for a lot of
16:54people in the West, because it's not a problem of the eyes. You can see the arguments. If you really
16:59want to see the arguments, if you want to see the facts, just look it up. They're there in front of you.
17:03So there's nothing wrong with your eyes. You're not blind, but you don't want to. And that's something
17:07else. It's a problem of the heart. And it could be because you don't want to accept the fact that
17:11there is a creator or you just don't want to be a Muslim or whatever. It could be a lot of arguments,
17:17but it's not a problem of the mind. It's not. Rationally, Islam is very easy. It's more, are you
17:23really, really down? Are you really open to receive the message? So that's a problem of the heart.
17:31Nowadays, people mostly think that Muslims are defeated and left behind. If Islam is the truth,
17:37why is that the case? If you see Islam, for example, as the sun that's up there, shining,
17:42being beautiful. You cannot touch it. It's untouchable. And if we as Muslims are living
17:47in a basement and we can say, where's Islam? Where's Islam? We cannot see Islam. It's because
17:52we are in the basement. We should get out of the basement, walk into the garden, look up,
17:56and then we see Islam. And that goes for the other people as well. If it's a cloudy day, because they have
18:01this cloudy perception, they don't see it. It doesn't mean that there is no Islam. The creator is there.
18:06Islam is there. It's up there. It's untouchable. It's beautiful. It doesn't matter what you say
18:11or do. It's still there. So Islam has never been defeated. It's there. And that Muslims don't always
18:17live like Muslims. That's our responsibility. I think if we did live like Muslims, you would still
18:24be on top. Because in the end, you were once, of course, like the ruling nation of the world.
18:30You taught a lot of people. You spread the truth. But in the end, people start arguing,
18:37stopped being real Muslims in a way. And then, of course, that's how the world works. Then someone
18:43else comes. And so it's up to ourselves. If we don't see Islam for what it is and we don't act upon it,
18:50then we can complain. But that's our own responsibility. Because I never saw, even when
18:56I was a very anti-Muslim politician, I never saw Islam as something to pity. I saw it as a danger back
19:05then. But I still respected it in a way because of the fact that I saw it as a danger. But nowadays,
19:10I see it as the truth, the ultimate truth with a capital T. And it's the most beautiful thing.
19:15So you don't have to walk away or shine away because of Islam. No, be proud, act upon it,
19:20be a real Muslim. If you really believe in an hereafter and you really believe in the creator,
19:25then you want to do everything for this religion, in the most positive sense, of course. So that's
19:31what we should do. And if we do that, you will rise again.
19:34You know that Islamophobia is rising in the world. How do you think we can deal with this issue?
19:40Well, I think there are two ways. One is just live as a Muslim, show good akhlaq in a way. And
19:48that's because most of the people in the beginning, in the old days, so to say, they were so impressed
19:54by what they saw. When you look at, for example, in Indonesia, people who merchants came by and they
19:59they'd never talked about Islam in a way that other people should become Muslim, etc. They were
20:05just being Muslims. They were trading. And the people over there, they were still Hindu back then.
20:09They said, wow, what is this? They have this beautiful concept. They're believing God, etc.
20:14They're clean. They're very honest. It's a beautiful something. And they wanted to have this as well.
20:20And that's why they became Muslim. So there was no real hardcore preaching or whatever. And they
20:25just looking at the akhlaq of those first Muslim people visiting Indonesia to trade. And I still
20:33think that's the best way. If people see all these horrible things on television and they're scared
20:38or they're ignorant or whatever, and they say good akhlaq from the Muslims, they will see, hey,
20:44what I see on TV, that's not reality. When I look at the Muslims, that's what Islam is. And a lot of people
20:50don't read the Koran. They don't read hadith. They read you and they read me. So let's be an open book
20:57and the best book they ever read. I think that's very important. And of course, the other part is
21:02education. Show people if they are interested and they want to know more, then they have to be, of
21:07course, good people to show them what Islam is, to explain the core concepts and what Islam is. So
21:13I think there are two ways. Some Muslims say, I'm someone who goes from home to work and work to
21:18home or I'm a student. And they ask, how can I tell my circle about Islam? Do you think they can
21:24spread this message as well? Yeah, of course. Everybody, all Muslims should in a way invite
21:29people to Islam. And even if people are already Muslim, you can boost each other's iman. So I think
21:34you have to build each other up a little bit because it's a hard world we live in and it's not always fun.
21:39And there's a lot of sorrow and there's a lot of grief. But we have our comfort in Islam,
21:44of course. So if you are able to comfort people and to strengthen people and to boost their iman,
21:51it also gives satisfaction. Because if I have a very dull job, for example, I have to stamp all the
21:57day. But I have a colleague that is not a Muslim, but he has some questions. You can talk and then
22:03it's very fulfilling. So the fact that you are there at that specific moment, specific time,
22:08that has a reason. So nobody is here without a reason. So as long as you realize that, that you
22:13have a function in this world, you are placed here with the grace of Allah to do something.
22:19Well, do something and do something for the religion.
22:22Brother Yoram, thank you very much for this beautiful interview again.
22:25And I pray that you will serve this Ummah until your last breath.
22:28Likewise.
22:29For the second time, we tried really hard to make you sweaty. But we couldn't.
22:35It's cold.
22:37Thank you for joining us.
22:38Yeah. Well, thank you too. It was an honor again to be on the show. And I think you're doing great,
22:43great work. And inshallah, you will help spreading the true message of Islam and show all these people,
22:50all these different kinds of Muslims, black, white, old, young men, women, etc. So,
22:55it's a, I think it's a great, great thing to do. Feel blessed.
Recommended
52:16
|
Up next
0:46
0:11
0:14
22:42
0:37
Be the first to comment