- 1 year ago
Nabeel Qureshi on Islam and Christianity
Nabeel Qureshi was a Christian apologist and former devout Muslim who gained wide recognition for his work explaining the differences between Islam and Christianity. His journey from Islam to Christianity is detailed in his bestselling book, "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus", and in various public debates, lectures, and writings.
Nabeel Qureshi was a Christian apologist and former devout Muslim who gained wide recognition for his work explaining the differences between Islam and Christianity. His journey from Islam to Christianity is detailed in his bestselling book, "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus", and in various public debates, lectures, and writings.
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00:00Thank you so much, Pastor Matthew, it's such a privilege to be here.
00:07I had planned on being here last year at, in, was it September, I think, or August?
00:14It was, I think it was September, end of August, beginning of September, and I received some
00:19pretty rough news.
00:20I was diagnosed with stage four stomach cancer last August, and so I had to cancel, and I
00:27said, when I get back to preaching, friends will be first on the list, and so I said,
00:33hey, I've got, you know, some time between radiation and my next scan, and can I come
00:38back out?
00:39And they were very gracious to let me come back, so I'm privileged to be here.
00:43It really is an honor.
00:45Every single moment, every single breath, every single step is a privilege and an honor
00:50and a blessing and a miracle from God.
00:53I'm more keenly aware of that than ever before.
00:55So let's invite Him to come, I want to share some of my story with you, but God, my heart
01:01today is just to get God here, in our hearts, in our minds, consuming us.
01:08That's really what I pray for, but that can't happen unless He wants to do it, so let's
01:12pray and ask Him to come.
01:15God, You've said that when we gather in Your name, there shall You also be.
01:19You said that when we come together in agreement, it shall be done for us.
01:23I know that I have brothers and sisters here who are not here to just hear someone speak,
01:28but rather here to encounter You, God.
01:30At least I hope that's what they're here for.
01:32And so I pray, Lord, in agreement with my brothers and sisters, that we want You, God.
01:38Come Lord Jesus, come into our hearts, come into our minds, transform us in this next
01:4335 minutes or so, Lord, I pray that You would come and that we would hear from You.
01:48God, if You want to speak through me, great, if You'd rather just come and speak directly
01:52in people's hearts, even better, Lord.
01:54But one way or the other, I pray that we would encounter You in such a way that we would
01:58not leave here unchanged, but go from here just as Moses went, face transformed because
02:04he had seen You, God.
02:06I pray that we would go from here transformed, having seen You.
02:10So come, Lord, for Your glory, we pray in Jesus' name, amen.
02:16Sometimes I pray with my eyes closed and I always feel like I'm about to walk off the
02:19stage and sermon's going to be over real quick if that happens.
02:22Well, to give you a little bit of background on my life, my father is from Pakistan, my
02:27mother as well.
02:28I'm first generation U.S., I was raised in a loving Muslim family.
02:33My father came from Pakistan in the 70s.
02:35He actually landed here in this country the day that Elvis died.
02:39Yeah, it's tragic.
02:43Some of you are like, he's not dead, I saw him in Vegas.
02:49He landed the day that Elvis died.
02:51And my dad gets off the plane, he sees a newspaper, the newspaper reads, the king is dead.
02:55My dad's like, I could have sworn this was a democracy.
03:01So that's how he comes here.
03:02Bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, tail end of Vietnam, and so the U.S. government's still looking
03:07for recruits to join the military.
03:11My father joins the Navy, he gets shipped out, goes to Okinawa.
03:14He's working as a medic out there and sewing people up.
03:17Ultimately works his way up the enlisted ranks, switches to the officer ranks, and
03:21after 24 years of serving the Navy, retired as a lieutenant commander.
03:25So thanks.
03:29So I grew up seeing my father going out to sea and seeing him defend this country, and
03:36him telling me, Nabil, it's because this country gives us the freedom to worship that we have
03:41an obligation to fight and defend it.
03:44If we're called out to war, we have to go, we have to be good American citizens.
03:49That's how I understood my duty as a young Muslim in the United States.
03:55When 2001 happened, when the buildings came down, the Islamic community around us was
04:03just as shocked as everybody else in the country.
04:07And I remember for us, we were just as vulnerable in that moment, hurting just as much as everybody
04:13else.
04:14My sister actually loves New York City.
04:15She has a poster of New York City in her room at this time, and the Twin Towers, where we
04:20had just visited them a few years prior.
04:22And so we love New York, we love this country, and we're seeing the towers come down, we're
04:26feeling just as vulnerable as everybody else.
04:29But then people turn their eyes towards Muslims, and they're thinking, who are you?
04:34Can we trust you?
04:35What's your agenda here?
04:37And we didn't just have to deal with the same thing everybody else was dealing with.
04:41Then we had to sort of defend ourselves, too, and in the midst of this, we're like, no,
04:45we're American.
04:46My dad, I remember, we went out to Home Depot and bought every single American flag we could,
04:50and we just put it on our cars and on our lawns.
04:53And I mean, we're just trying to signal to people, we are American, too, but we kind
04:57of got caught in the crosshairs there.
04:59And in the midst of that time, people are questioning us, and literally questioning
05:03us, like, what does your religion teach?
05:05And I had been taught my whole childhood that Islam is a religion of peace, and that was
05:10the slogan that we had used, and that's what we actually truly believed.
05:14But in that time, you know, the thing about, and I was a freshman in college at that time,
05:18the thing about being in college is that, the way it should be anyway, is that people
05:23can push you and challenge you and test you.
05:25And so people are beginning to ask questions, Nabil, if Islam is a religion of peace, how
05:28do you explain what they're doing on the TV screens?
05:30How do you explain that they're killing people in the name of Allah?
05:35And these were questions that were very, very important to me.
05:37But for me, growing up, you have to understand, Islam was peaceful, and I was an American
05:43and a Muslim.
05:44Those two were not exclusive of one another.
05:45My mom, my dad actually, after he was in the Navy for a few years, his first real vacation
05:51he got, he went to Pakistan and he had his marriage, it was an arranged marriage, with
05:55my mother.
05:56And she was the daughter of a Muslim missionary.
05:59So I don't know if you know this, but Muslims send out missionaries as well.
06:03And my grandfather spent his life preaching Islam in the jungles of Indonesia.
06:07So my mom was born in Borneo, and her father was out preaching, and her mom was trying
06:13to make some money to take care of the family.
06:15So my mom was left to raise the younger siblings and to raise them in the way of Islam.
06:20And so she had spent years already raising her siblings, teaching them the Islamic way.
06:26So by the time I was born, you can imagine how much devotion she had to the faith, the
06:32daughter of a missionary, the granddaughter of a missionary, having already raised kids.
06:36So she raised us to be good, devout Muslims.
06:38So what does that mean?
06:39Well, that means praying five times a day.
06:42That means first thing in the morning, reciting traditions that Muhammad used to recite, thanking
06:46God for giving us life every single day.
06:49That's how I prayed.
06:50First thing in the morning, I would pray a prayer in Arabic.
06:52Alhamdulillahi alladhi ahiyana ba'dama amatana wa alayhin nooshur.
06:56Had no clue what it meant.
06:59But as I grew older, my mom taught me, Nabeel, this is why you recite this every day.
07:03This prayer means all praise be to God who gives me life, causes me to die, and will
07:08raise me up again, anticipating the day of judgment that all Muslims believe in, but
07:13also every single day saying, thank you, God, for waking me up this morning.
07:17That's how I would start my day.
07:18And then I would do the ceremonial washings, and I'd go down to the prayer rugs, and I
07:21would pray the first of the five daily prayers, constantly in remembrance of our faith and
07:26thanking God for sustenance and asking Him to be with me, reciting portions of the Quranic
07:31scripture in order to be performing my duties, but also to please God.
07:37Because that is something that's a part of Islam, is that you earn your blessings by
07:40pleasing God and fulfilling your obligations and your duties, and at the end of time, according
07:44to Islamic theology, if you've done more good deeds than bad, you will go to heaven, and
07:49if you've done more bad deeds than good, you'll go to hell, though God can work some grace
07:52in there, too.
07:54That's basically how I saw the world, and so by the age of five, I had seven chapters
07:59of the Quran memorized.
08:02The reason why is because I would stand next to my father every day during the five daily
08:07prayers, and during portions of the prayers, my dad would recite, from memory, portions
08:12of the Quran.
08:13And so if you hear scripture recited every day, and your family makes a habit of memorizing
08:19it, you're going to memorize it.
08:21You're going to have it.
08:22Even by the age of five, you'll have whole chapters memorized, and so that's what I had.
08:25I had also recited the entire Quran in Arabic by the age of five.
08:31It was a duty.
08:32My parents wanted me to do it by the age of five before I turned six, and so I did it.
08:36Kids are able to do a lot more than we might give them credit for, but the point is that
08:40we have to model it for them and to show them how to do it, and so my mom was excellent
08:45at doing that, and she taught me, Nabil, as you go out to school, you have to remember
08:50that you are an ambassador for Islam.
08:53When people see your face, they're going to see Muslim.
08:57So it doesn't matter if you are the best student in your class.
09:00It doesn't matter if you're even the President of the United States.
09:03When people see your face, they are going to associate that with Islam, and so you need
09:08to be the most respectful person in your classroom.
09:12You need to have the greatest integrity, the best morals.
09:16You can't lie.
09:17You can't cheat.
09:18You can't, of course, you can't drink or do any drugs or hang out with girls or none of
09:22that.
09:23You have to be treating your teachers as if they were your parents with that much respect,
09:28and so that was the attitude that my mom raised me with.
09:30I'm representing Islam.
09:31This is my faith, and so I would go to school with a great degree of pride to be a representative
09:38of my faith, and I kind of expected everyone else to be doing the same thing.
09:43If you don't understand the way immigrants see the world, imagine if you were going to
09:49just move to, let's say, Turkey.
09:52You have some preconceived notions of what Turkey is, and if you got there and nobody
09:59from the country actually welcomed you in and told you, hey, we don't actually like
10:04that.
10:05We're like this, you would perpetuate in your preconceived notions and your prejudices.
10:09You would just continue that way.
10:10Well, my mom, when she came to the U.S., no American, definitely no Christian, ever received
10:15her into their home.
10:18To this day, no Christian has invited my mom into her home, except for my friends,
10:22but that doesn't count.
10:23No one in her community has ever reached out and invited her.
10:25They see the burka, and all of a sudden they get afraid, and so my mom has not had the
10:29opportunity to see what real Christian life is like.
10:32Instead, what she's told is that America is a Christian nation, then she looks at the
10:36TV and sees all the crazy stuff happening on Hollywood and all the stuff happening in
10:40celebrities' lives, and she hears what's happening in the news and the murders and the rapes
10:44and all this and that, and she says, this is a Christian nation.
10:47This is what Christianity is all about.
10:52If people would just reach out, perhaps we'd be able to take care of that, but we don't,
10:58unfortunately.
10:59So for 30 plus years, my mom has been here, and no one in the community has just invited
11:03her to say, this is what it's actually like.
11:06And so, she wants to train me, as a young Muslim, not just to be a good Muslim, but
11:10to also not get affected by Christianity, to not be tainted by that.
11:16So from a very young age, she would teach me how to respond to Christianity.
11:22She gave me books to read to say, this is why Christianity is false.
11:25What sense does it make to say that a man died on a cross for your sins?
11:29How does that even work?
11:30What sense does it make to say that God is three in one?
11:33What sense does it make to say that the Bible is reliable when we've seen all these issues
11:39with it?
11:40I was reading these books from childhood, and so when people were coming to me, and
11:44it very rarely happened, but when people came to me to share the gospel with me, I
11:48was trained with a response to give to them, so that they would be turned around.
11:55In fact, there was a very specific time that I recall in high school, and my friend Betsy
12:00came to me, and she said, Nabil, do you know Jesus?
12:04My response to her was, yes, I know Jesus.
12:08The Quran teaches me all about Jesus.
12:10It teaches me that Jesus is virgin-born, that He's the most miraculous man who ever
12:15lived, that He's able to cleanse lepers and heal the blind and raise the dead.
12:19The Quran teaches me that Jesus is, in fact, the sinless Messiah, and His return is going
12:25to be in the latter days.
12:26The Quran teaches me all this.
12:28I know Jesus.
12:31She apparently didn't know that, because she didn't know what to say next, so I continued
12:35for her, and I said, but I also know, Betsy, that Jesus is not God.
12:40And she says, no, Nabil, that's the most important part.
12:42Jesus is God.
12:43And I said, really, do you actually believe that?
12:48Because I've looked through the Gospels, and I don't know anywhere He claims to be God.
12:52Let's assume for the sake of this conversation, Betsy, that Jesus, that the Bible is reliable.
12:57I think it's been changed.
12:58I don't think it's trustworthy, but let's just say it hasn't been changed.
13:02Where does Jesus say He's God in the Gospels?
13:05And she thought about it, and she said, well, doesn't Jesus say the Father and I are one?
13:10I said, yeah, but if I say I'm one with someone, I'm not saying I am that person.
13:16It means I'm united with them.
13:17I'm unified with them in spirit.
13:19That's why Jesus says that He prays for the disciples to be one, just as He is one with
13:24the Father.
13:25He's not saying He's God.
13:27If you want to see what Jesus says about Himself, why not go to the Gospel of Mark, where Jesus
13:31is going through the towns and villages in Galilee, and He could do no miracles?
13:35Are you telling me God can't do miracles?
13:38What about in the Gospel of Luke, where it says Jesus grew in wisdom and in stature?
13:44How can God grow in wisdom and in stature?
13:46And as I'm sharing these things with her, I'm seeing her confidence wane, because she
13:50hasn't thought about these things before.
13:52And I saved the biggest one for last.
13:54I said, Betsy, if you want to quote the Gospel of John, why not go to that verse where Jesus
13:58says, the Father is greater than I.
14:03I would believe Jesus if I were you.
14:06God is greater than He is.
14:08Now, if you want to know about Jesus, ask me about Islam, and I will share Islam with
14:13you.
14:15And so I was able to take her evangelism, her attempt at sharing the Gospel, and turn
14:20it around into my own dawah, my own invitation for her to accept Islam.
14:25It was really easy to do, because she hadn't thought about the evidence behind her faith,
14:31the reasons for why she believed what she believed.
14:33Now, don't get me wrong.
14:35The moment she shared her faith with me, my respect for her went through the roof, because
14:39I knew what the Gospel message was.
14:40The Gospel message is, unless you accept Christ, you will go to hell.
14:45At least, that's how I understood it at the time.
14:48It's a bit richer than that.
14:50But that's how I understood it.
14:51And so I knew, hey, there are all these Christians.
14:53I see them going to church on Sundays.
14:55They believe that you have to accept the Gospel, or otherwise I will go to hell.
14:59Why aren't they sharing the Gospel with me?
15:04And I could only come up with one of two reasons.
15:06Either they don't really believe it, or they don't care if I go to hell.
15:12Those are the only two things here.
15:15And honestly, I figured they don't really believe it.
15:17I mean, who does believe this stuff?
15:18I thought it was ridiculous.
15:20And so, that was my understanding of Christianity.
15:24My respect for Betsy went through the roof when she shared the Gospel with me, but she
15:28hadn't studied the basics.
15:29And every time I had a conversation with Christians, asking these basic questions, these aren't
15:34trick questions.
15:35Why do you believe Jesus is God?
15:37Not a trick question.
15:38It's an important one.
15:40I realized that people simply hadn't thought about their faith, and my conclusion ultimately
15:43was there must be no substance behind the Christian faith.
15:48It's polytheism.
15:49People want to worship Jesus, but they also want to just say there's one God, so they
15:54call it the Trinity, to make themselves feel better.
15:57And nobody can explain it, and that's just what it is.
16:01So I saw it as my duty to share true monotheism with Christians who didn't realize they were
16:06polytheists.
16:07That's how I felt.
16:08And so I would share Islam with whoever would listen.
16:12The first time I encountered a Christian who actually was prepared with answers to these
16:16kinds of questions was in college.
16:20His name was David.
16:21I met him on a debate tournament.
16:23I had joined the debate team, he had joined the debate team, and we were going for our
16:26first tournament.
16:28Well, when we got to the hotel, the rest of the team went out.
16:33Some of them had brought drugs with them.
16:34Some of them were looking to hook up for the night and do all kinds of stuff.
16:38The team all went out to do their thing.
16:39My mom had taught me, hey, don't do that kind of stuff.
16:41Be above that.
16:42And so I stayed back.
16:43And there was one other guy on the team who said, I don't want to be a part of that either.
16:47And he stayed back.
16:48And I thought, okay, well, I can actually see eye to eye with this guy.
16:51And so we ended up, we had to split, share rooms anyway.
16:54So we ended up rooming together that night.
16:57And as I'm putting my stuff away, he pulls out a Bible and starts reading.
17:02I'm thinking, no way, this guy's a Christian.
17:04This will be fun.
17:07And so I looked at him and I said, David, you realize that book you're reading is not
17:11trustworthy.
17:13And he closes the Bible and says, go on.
17:17So you guys are aware.
17:20I missed it.
17:21I was in the moment.
17:22I was just going to take him down.
17:23It's like, David, think about it.
17:25Didn't Jesus speak Aramaic?
17:28But the earliest New Testament was written in Greek.
17:31And so by the time you actually have a recording of what Jesus said, it's already gone through
17:35a translation.
17:36But the Bible that lasted the longest period of time in church history was the Latin Bible.
17:40And so it goes through another translation.
17:43And then from Latin, it went to German before it came to English.
17:45So you had another translation of a translation.
17:48So you've got a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation is what
17:51you're reading.
17:52How do I know that I'm actually reading Jesus' words when it's been translated so many times?
17:58Now, I had used that challenge on Christians before, but what I didn't know about David
18:05is that he had been raised an atheist.
18:09Five years prior, he had seen his friend, Randy, reading a Bible, and he had challenged
18:16Randy.
18:17He said, Randy, do you know why you're reading a Bible?
18:20Because you were born in America.
18:22Had you been born in India, you'd be reading the Vedas.
18:24Had you been born in Arabia, you'd be reading a Quran.
18:27Had you been born somewhere else, you'd be reading something else because people like
18:30you just believe what you're taught to believe.
18:33A bit condescending.
18:36The irony is David was just saying that because he was raised atheist, but whatever, it's
18:41fine.
18:42Randy systematically dismantles David's arguments.
18:45He starts explaining to him why the Scriptures are reliable, why he trusts in the gospel,
18:49starts giving him evidence for his faith.
18:51Over the course of the year, David slowly begins to realize that the Christian message
18:55is true.
18:56And then he spends the next four years doing nothing but studying how to defend the gospel.
19:02And then I walked into the room.
19:06And in fact, David had been praying all that morning.
19:07He had been saying, God, there's a Muslim on the team.
19:09If you want me to share the gospel with him, just open the door.
19:13And I just walked right through the door.
19:14I was like, hey, I'm here.
19:16And so David says, Nabeel, earlier today, I heard you speaking on the phone with your
19:21mom.
19:22Were you speaking in English?
19:23I said, no.
19:25And he said, but then I asked you what you talked about with your mom and you told me
19:29in English.
19:30Was that a bad translation?
19:34No.
19:35He said, Nabeel, you're multilingual.
19:41You can take what you hear in one language and accurately translate that message into
19:45another language.
19:46And so were the disciples.
19:48Whatever language Jesus was speaking, yes, he spoke Aramaic, but he could have been speaking
19:51Greek.
19:52Whatever language he was speaking, the disciples heard it, wrote it down in Greek.
19:56And we have in our possession today over 5,000 manuscripts of the New Testament in the original
20:03Greek.
20:04Nabeel, we know with certainty what Jesus said.
20:08I said, David, I think you're making this up.
20:13I've talked to hundreds of Christians.
20:15No one's told me this before.
20:16He says, you think I'm making this up?
20:17I'm like, yeah, I think you're making this up.
20:19He says, well, bring it.
20:20I said, it's been brought.
20:21Let's go.
20:22And so for the rest of the night, I just challenged him argument after argument.
20:25I'm like, what do you mean Jesus died for the sins of mankind?
20:29How does one man's death pay for everybody's sins?
20:32What do you mean that God is a trinity?
20:33How can three be one?
20:35And I would just challenge him on all these basic principles of Christianity.
20:37And for the first time, someone had thought about it and was actually giving me responses
20:42that began to make sense, although I wasn't done challenging.
20:44It's not like I just believed him the moment he gave me a response.
20:47So I challenged.
20:48We pushed and pulled.
20:49He started pushing on Islam a bit, and I started pushing back.
20:51And so we're going back and forth.
20:53By the end of the weekend, we're nowhere near done with arguing.
20:56So we decide to go back to our university and sign up for courses so that we can sit
21:00in the back of the lecture hall and argue with one another.
21:04And in the middle of that, we end up doing projects together.
21:06We end up doing homework together.
21:07He starts coming to my house, and my mom makes him biryani and korma and roti and makhni.
21:12And then I go to his house, and his dad gives me beef jerky.
21:15I was like, okay, that's fine.
21:18Whatever.
21:19Cool.
21:20And so in the course of all this, going to each other's house, living life together,
21:24we actually became best friends.
21:25I realized that David was my best friend.
21:31And if you have a message like the gospel, and you're sharing that with a Muslim, you're
21:38basically asking them to give up their lives.
21:41You're asking them to give up everything.
21:44If they don't know they can trust you, they're not going to hear what you have to say.
21:49Relationships are critical for sharing the gospel.
21:52I'm not saying street preaching doesn't work.
21:53It does work.
21:54I do it.
21:55But that's not the primary mode God has intended for us to reach the world.
21:58It's through love and relationships.
22:00And so my friend David, after sharing arguments with me over the course of a year, it actually
22:06took a year to discuss the reliability of the New Testament, I began to conclude, hey,
22:10this book is actually reliable.
22:12There's no way that the New Testament, because of the way it was written and proliferated,
22:17there's no way anybody could have come and intentionally altered it such that it wouldn't
22:20have been caught.
22:21I wish I had time to go into the details, but there was no method of external control
22:26over the Scripture like that.
22:27It proliferated much more organically.
22:29And so I said, okay, the New Testament's reliable, but does that mean Christianity's true?
22:35No, it doesn't.
22:36How do I know whether Christianity's actually true or not?
22:38And so for the next few years, we embarked on an investigation into the evidence of Christianity
22:45versus the evidence of Islam.
22:48I was trying to convert him to Islam, he's trying to convert me to Christianity, and
22:52we would just share the arguments.
22:53Now, you might be saying, what do you mean evidence for a faith?
22:56Don't you just pick a faith based on what appeals to you?
22:58And I would say, no, there's so many different faiths out there.
23:01You've got Buddhism, Hinduism, Daoism, you've got, of course, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism,
23:07the big three monotheistic faiths, all these different faiths.
23:11Different faiths appeal to different people.
23:13Usually, the faith you were raised in appeals to you more than every other faith does.
23:17But that doesn't make the faith true.
23:18What makes a faith true and what makes it false?
23:21Interestingly, the Christian message stands or falls on the resurrection of Jesus.
23:28Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15, if Christ is not risen, our faith is in vain, and we're
23:33of all people most to be pitied.
23:36So did Jesus actually rise from the dead?
23:39And very important for a Muslim as well, is Jesus God?
23:43Did he claim to be God or not?
23:45We find the two brought together in Romans chapter 10, verse 9.
23:49If you confess with your mouth, some of you might know this verse, if you confess with
23:52your mouth that Jesus is Lord, believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead,
24:00you will be saved.
24:01Pastor Matthew, they passed the Bible test.
24:05If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, believe in your heart that God raised
24:08Him from the dead, you will be saved.
24:11Okay, Jesus is God, He died on the cross, and He rose from the dead.
24:14These three components actually form the gospel message.
24:18I'm not sure if you've heard the gospel before, but here's what it is in a nutshell.
24:22God Himself, after having created us, knew that we would rebel against Him, and indeed,
24:28we all rebel against Him.
24:31And the penalty for separating ourselves from God like that is death.
24:35You might say, why would God kill you for sin?
24:37That doesn't, that's a bit extreme.
24:39No, God doesn't kill you for sin.
24:40When you sin, you remove yourself from the source of life.
24:45When you rebel against God, you're looking at the source of life and saying, I'm walking
24:48away from you.
24:50And so you incur death for yourself.
24:53God enters into this world, dies on our behalf so that we don't have to die and be separated
24:59from Him.
25:00And then He rises from the dead to prove that death has been defeated and to show us what
25:06will happen to us.
25:07We will rise from the dead one day and be with Him.
25:10That's the gospel message.
25:13And it's captured in Romans 10, verse 9.
25:15If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, believe in your heart that God raised
25:18Him from the dead, you will be saved.
25:21But what I noticed about that when I was a Muslim trying to investigate whether Christianity
25:25or Islam is true is that these are three historical claims.
25:30Did a man named Jesus claim to be God?
25:34Did he then prove it by dying and rising from the dead?
25:42Does the evidence show that he died on the cross and does the evidence show he rose from
25:46the dead?
25:47Interestingly, Islam denies all three of these points.
25:51Chapter 4, verse 157 of the Koran says he did not die on the cross.
25:56Chapter 5, verse 72 of the Koran says he was not God, he didn't claim to be God.
26:02So when you establish the case for one, you're actually bringing down the case for the other.
26:09This is why when people say all religions teach the same thing, I'm like, that's an
26:12absurd statement.
26:13These are diametrically opposed.
26:15Let me put it to you once again in another way.
26:18In Christianity, you have to believe Jesus is God to go to heaven.
26:23In Islam, if you believe Jesus is God, you're going to hell.
26:28Simple as that.
26:29They can't be more diametrically opposed.
26:33But when I studied the evidence, when I studied the history, and I'm talking about through
26:37a historical lens, not reading the Bible and saying, well, the Bible says it, therefore
26:40it's true.
26:42Well, I didn't trust the Bible.
26:43I'm reading the Bible the way a historian reads ancient texts, and I came to the conclusion
26:48Jesus did die on the cross, and he did, the best explanation by far of what happened to
26:54him is that he rose from the dead, and that he also claimed to be God.
26:59By the way, yeah, amen.
27:05They're still on an Easter high, I'll take it.
27:10By the way, I have some books I've written on this.
27:12If this is of interest to you, this is my heart story.
27:15This is everything I've poured my life into is the evidence for Christianity and Islam,
27:19and I wrote a book about that called No God But One, and you can take a look at that if
27:22you'd like, wherever fine books are sold.
27:27I looked at the case for Islam, and here's the thing that I want to get across to you.
27:32We were told stories about Muhammad growing up, about how amazing he is, about how gracious
27:38he is, about how merciful he is, about how he's the best general, the best statesman,
27:42the best diplomat, the best father, the best husband.
27:45We were told all these stories, and that's why we had this love and passion for Islam.
27:50In the West, at least, that was our impetus for loving our faith and for saying Islam
27:53is a religion of peace, but when I started investigating the evidence, instead of just
27:59listening to stories, I said, what does history say?
28:02And I went to the earliest books written about Muhammad's life, and when you read those books,
28:08you find horrific things that you've never been told before.
28:11The stuff that ISIS knows, the stuff that Al-Qaeda knows, the Taliban, they know this
28:16stuff.
28:17We weren't taught this in the West.
28:19And I'm studying the evidence, and I'm thinking, oh my goodness, is this my prophet?
28:24And so all of a sudden, I had to deal with the cognitive dissonance of what is all this,
28:29and the evidence, the argumentation that I thought existed for Islam all crumbled at
28:34the moment of investigation, and the more I studied the case for Christianity, the more
28:37and more solid it became, and so now I'm dealing with a real dilemma.
28:41Instead of just arguing with my friend, now it's about my soul, now it's about my life,
28:45and about the world, and so I ask God, God, can you show me what's true?
28:50I've done as much as my mind can do.
28:52I need you to show me what's true.
28:54And Muslims often ask for guidance from God through visions and dreams, particularly dreams,
28:59and I did ask God for guidance through visions and dreams, and he gave me a vision in three
29:03dreams.
29:04And I don't want to get into the details with you right now, but they led me to, well,
29:09they led me to the cross, but they also led me to scripture, and I began to want to read
29:14what the Bible actually said.
29:16Here was the context in which that happened.
29:20I was driving to school, it was my first day of, second year of medical school, so it was
29:26perhaps the most difficult academic year of my life, and I'm, instead of thinking, okay,
29:31this is, I need to gear up for school, I just can't get my mind out of the fact that,
29:36wow, everything I ever believed might be false, everything my parents stood for might be false,
29:41this Christian message, as crazy as it sounds, might be true, and so I can't get my mind
29:46out of that, and I'm just literally crying as I'm going to school, and I say, God, I
29:50know what I need to do, you've given me all the evidence, you've given me all the spiritual
29:56guidance through visions and dreams, I know what I need to do, but I need time to mourn.
30:00I need time to mourn, because for a Muslim to give up their Islamic life is to give up
30:05everything.
30:07My mom had built her whole reputation, her whole life's value was in serving the mosque
30:12and in preaching Islam, she's the daughter and granddaughter of missionaries, and in
30:16an honor and shame culture, for your son to become a Christian, your only son to become
30:21a Christian is worse than if he had died.
30:24And so, can I do that to my mom?
30:27It's not just a matter of me, right?
30:29I know my reputation's going to go down the tubes, but forget that, my mom and my dad
30:33who've done nothing but sacrificed everything they had for me, can I do this to them?
30:39And so, you're wrestling with all this, and I was just crying, and I said, forget it,
30:44I'm not going to school.
30:45I went back to my apartment, and I put the Bible and the Koran in front of me, and I
30:50said, God, I need your comfort, and so I opened the Koran, and I started looking for verses
30:56of comfort, and for the first time, I realized that there is not a single verse in the Koran
31:04designed to comfort a hurting man.
31:06Now, there's verses that say, if you repent, God will forgive you, and stuff like that,
31:10but nothing that says, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.
31:15Nothing that reaches the heart.
31:17And so, I put the Koran away, I said, this book doesn't apply to my life, and I opened
31:24up the Bible, and I said, I don't know where to turn.
31:28I know Christians read the New Testament, so I'll go to Matthew chapter 1.
31:31I saw it was a bunch of genealogies, so I skipped it.
31:36I was a Muslim, I had an excuse.
31:38Skipped it.
31:40Didn't take me long to get to Matthew chapter 5, and this is what it says, blessed are those
31:45who mourn, for they will be comforted.
31:50And I thought, this is exactly what I just prayed.
31:52God put this verse in here for me.
31:55You guys can read it if you want, but it's my verse.
31:57And I was like, this is amazing.
31:59And as I read it, it was like it was electric, and it jumped off the page and kick-started
32:03my heart.
32:04And I was like, who is this God, and I read the next verse, it says, blessed are those
32:08who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
32:11And I'm thinking, I hunger and thirst for righteousness.
32:14I'm not righteous.
32:16Every time I try to be righteous, I fall, I sin.
32:19But you're telling me just that I hunger and thirst for righteousness means I'm blessed?
32:23What kind of God is this?
32:24And then I start reading through the scripture, not trying to tear it down as I always had,
32:28but actually to receive what it had to say, I encountered an unconditionally loving Father.
32:35And I thought, this is amazing.
32:37And I didn't want to miss a thing, so I was reading every single footnote.
32:40And I would ask God a question, I'd be like, God, how do I know you're even hearing me
32:43right now?
32:44And I'd read the footnote.
32:45If you want to know God can hear you, go to 1 John 3.
32:48Thanks.
32:49Boom.
32:501 John 3.
32:51And I started reading, and I'm going back and forth every single footnote.
32:53It takes me a while to get from Matthew 5 to Matthew 10, but when I finally get to Matthew
32:5810, this is what I find.
33:01He who proclaims me before the people of this world, I will proclaim before my Father in
33:05heaven.
33:06And he who denies me before the people of this world, I will deny before my Father in
33:09heaven.
33:10You see, I had all the evidence.
33:12The evidence was solid.
33:13I had the spiritual guidance, dreams and visions.
33:15I had the emotional guidance.
33:18But I had not proclaimed because I knew it would cost me my family.
33:25But as if God knew what I was thinking, the next verses say this, he who loves father
33:30or mother more than me is not worthy of me.
33:35And I was thinking, okay, God, I get it.
33:39If I really love my parents, I will proclaim you to them because you are the truth.
33:47But it's not just my parents.
33:48It's my entire life, the whole Islamic community, all my friends, everything that I've planned,
33:54it's all going to go.
33:56You know what the next verses say?
33:59He who loses his life for my sake will find it.
34:04Matthew 10, crazy convicting.
34:07So I bowed my knee and I prayed.
34:11Well, no one had told me about a sinner's prayer.
34:12I've been with David for four years.
34:14No one told me about a sinner's prayer.
34:15But I prayed, I gave my life to Christ in that moment.
34:19And even though I assented in that moment to the gospel, I think I actually understood
34:25it a few days later when I had seen my father cry for the first time in my life.
34:36When he found out what had happened, he said these words to me, Nabil, today I feel as
34:40if my backbone has been ripped out from inside me.
34:43You have to understand, my dad is like this pillar of strength in my mind.
34:47He's the warrior.
34:49He goes out and fights for the country.
34:53I'm the guy who made him cry.
34:56And my mom, if you had met her up until that moment, she had always been full of life,
35:01gregarious, hospitable, welcoming people in, feeding them.
35:04There was always a light shining in her eyes.
35:07And in that moment, it was as if I reached into her soul and turned that light off.
35:12She has never been the same.
35:16And when they left, I just crumbled to the ground and I just started crying.
35:23I'm saying to God, why didn't you kill me?
35:28Because I'm thinking in my mind, if you'd killed me the moment I believed, I would have
35:32been in heaven.
35:33I'd have been happy.
35:34My parents wouldn't have known.
35:35They'd have been happy.
35:36I'd be worshiping you.
35:37You'd be happy.
35:38We'd all be happy if you'd killed me the moment I believed.
35:40And so I'm rocking back and forth and saying, why didn't you kill me?
35:44Why didn't you kill me?
35:47And I don't know where your theology stands.
35:48I'm just here to testify to what happened in my life.
35:51As I'm saying, why didn't you kill me?
35:52Why didn't you kill me?
35:53I heard these words, because this is not about you.
36:02And it was like I was rooted to the ground.
36:06I could not move for 10 minutes.
36:07I was stuck in place.
36:09And when I finally did get up and I walked away, it was as if the person who had been
36:13there crying was somebody else.
36:16And it was as if all the issues I had were somebody else's issues.
36:19And I walked outside, and I looked at the world, and it all looked so different.
36:25And I looked at a person crossing the street.
36:27It's a fairly mundane thing, someone crossing the street.
36:31But for the first time, it hit me that that's not just someone.
36:34That person is worth so much.
36:36God died for them.
36:38Now, you have to understand, in the Muslim perspective, God doesn't come into this world.
36:43This world's too filthy.
36:44God doesn't die for anyone.
36:46Why would God do that?
36:47They're His servants.
36:48He's God.
36:49He's created the universe.
36:50He's majestic.
36:51Why would He do any...
36:52He would never do any of that.
36:53And the answer is, He would because He loves them that much.
36:57They're worth that much to Him.
36:59And the creator of the universe, the one who's worshiped by angels for all eternity, if you
37:04just saw one of those angels, you'd be tempted to worship it.
37:07That's how magnificent they are.
37:09They're all worshiping Him.
37:11And He comes into this world for us, to die for us.
37:17What?
37:25And you have to think about the manner in which He came.
37:28He comes as a baby born to two children who had just been accused of an illegitimate relationship.
37:34Right?
37:35God could have come in on chariots and proclaimed Himself king and whatever.
37:39He could have been administered a lethal injection, whatever.
37:43He could have done this a lot easier if He wanted to.
37:46But He comes in, is born to two children who've been accused of an illegitimate relationship.
37:50So His whole life, He's carrying the ignominy of being an illegitimate child.
37:55His father is a carpenter, so he has to work with his hands and feet, blood, sweat, and
37:59tears in order to make ends meet until he gets to a point where he spends all his time
38:05investing in 12 men who he knows are going to betray him.
38:10One of them betrays him with a kiss.
38:12Another one says, I will die before I betray you.
38:15And they all run away from him at his greatest moment of need.
38:18Then he's flogged.
38:19I don't know if you know about the flogging process, but we know about it.
38:24Cicero tells us that as people are flogged, their skin is flayed into ribbons and it starts
38:29falling off.
38:30People's abdominal walls start breaking loose and intestines fall out during the flogging
38:35process.
38:36Arteries and veins are laid bare.
38:38This was called the pre-death.
38:40People died just by the flogging.
38:42Our God goes through that, and by the way, they go through it naked.
38:46They're not wearing any clothes through any of this.
38:48We have to paint Jesus with clothes so we can take it.
38:51He didn't.
38:52He gets put on the cross broken and naked for everyone to ridicule, the worst way to
38:58die ever devised in all of human history.
39:02You have to ask yourself, why?
39:05Why did he choose that death?
39:07Why did he choose that life?
39:10And the answer is to show us the depths of his love for us.
39:20If you were born in a family where the genealogy was broken, where your parents had what was
39:29seen as an illegitimate relationship, or if you have bared that your whole life, you don't
39:34have that kind of honor that a lot of other people have, or if you have been working with
39:40your hands to make ends meet, to get paycheck to paycheck, if you have poured your life
39:46into someone who betrayed you after having said that they would be with you till death,
39:55if your body is broken and you're saying, God, why me?
40:00This is not a God who stands back and judges you in the midst of all that.
40:05This is a God who rolls up his sleeves and says, I love you, son.
40:08I love you, daughter.
40:09I'm going to walk with you in this, right next to you.
40:14And does he just do that as a symbol of his love to show us how much he loves us?
40:19More than that, he tells us, John chapter 15, as I have loved you, so love one another.
40:28He's telling us this is what love is.
40:29This is what it means to follow me.
40:32If you're going to follow me, you have to love people the way I loved people.
40:36You're asking me about people coming to this country, immigrants coming to this country.
40:40Am I safe?
40:41Am I secure?
40:42Who cares if you're safe?
40:43You can die for your neighbor if you want to follow me.
40:46While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
40:49While we were yet his enemies, Christ died for us.
40:52He set the example for us.
40:54Look, if we are in him, we know we have eternity secured.
40:59We are going to be in heaven forever.
41:01That's the promise he has given us.
41:03What that means is there are five billion people in this world who are worse off than
41:08we are, every single one of them.
41:11We are here to be God's hands and feet.
41:14Christ tells us this.
41:15He says everything I have done, you shall do in greater still.
41:19He says what he does, we're supposed to do it.
41:22If your enemy is hungry, give them something to eat.
41:24If they're thirsty, give them something to drink.
41:26Love them because I loved you when you were my enemy.
41:28You call yourself a follower of mine, do what I did.
41:32That's what it means to be Christian.
41:33Look, when we call ourselves Christian, we've taken Christ's name, Christian.
41:38If we don't live how he lived, we've taken his name in vain.
41:43That's what it means to take the Lord's name in vain, and a lot of us do it all the time.
41:48But I have better hope for us here.
41:52I've seen this church.
41:53I've seen the spirit moving.
41:54I've met some of you and talked to some of you.
41:58I want to leave you with this.
42:05Eleven years to the day after I gave my life to Christ, I was diagnosed with cancer, stage
42:15four stomach cancer.
42:19They call it terminal.
42:24They said average lifespan is nine months, and I fell on my face every single day after
42:34that diagnosis, saying, God, don't take me away from my daughter.
42:38My daughter's one year old.
42:42Don't take me away from my wife, and then I went back to the Gospels to study what I
42:50knew because I knew this was true.
42:52I had done the investigation.
42:54I had done the research.
42:55God had spoken to me personally.
42:57He gave me words.
42:58I've encountered him.
42:59I know he is real, and I read through the Gospels, and here's what I find.
43:03Jesus is a healer, and he heals every single person who came to him for healing in the
43:10Gospels.
43:11Now, I'm not saying everyone who comes to him for healing today is healed, but I am
43:15saying he healed everyone who came to him in the Scriptures, and the Scriptures tell
43:18us he is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and so I started looking to people who had
43:25seen God at work.
43:26I said, what's your story?
43:27What's your story?
43:28What's your story?
43:29And I found out that God is alive even today, working miracles even today.
43:34My friend, AJ, in December, his daughter died on the delivery table.
43:39They wrote her time of death.
43:41She had been without oxygen for 20 minutes.
43:43Death certificate written, AJ, come in, say goodbye to your daughter.
43:46AJ says, I am not saying goodbye to my daughter.
43:49He puts his hand on her, and he says, I say to you in the name of Jesus, rise up, and
43:55in front of the doctor, in front of the nurses, their daughter started gasping and breathing,
44:00and she's alive today.
44:05I have a friend named Ken who lives here in LA, prayed for a woman who had been in a wheelchair
44:12with rheumatoid arthritis for over 40 years, found out that she had been abused as a child
44:17and had never forgiven her abuser.
44:19He said, we need to work through this.
44:21Prayed with her for forgiveness, worked with her.
44:24After 45 minutes, she walked out of that wheelchair here in LA.
44:30I have stories of friends who've prayed for the blind.
44:33Their sight was restored.
44:34These are people I know.
44:35You might not believe me.
44:36That's fine.
44:37I know these people.
44:39I'm here to tell you this is happening.
44:41God is alive today, and he's healing even stage four terminal stomach cancer.
44:48So, what I want to leave you with is this.
44:54We serve an awesome God who loves us, who's made a way for us, who heals us, who is our
45:00father, who is our friend, and even if I have to go to him sooner than later, I know my
45:06daughter will not be fatherless.
45:09She has a heavenly father.
45:11I know my wife will not be without a husband.
45:13She is the bride of Christ.
45:15I know there is a God who watches over us, who's made a way for us, and this life will
45:19be over in the blink of an eye.
45:21I don't care who you are.
45:22If you get killed by a car walking out of here now, or if you die when you're 100 years
45:26old, it will have been the blink of an eye, and then our real life will start.
45:32Do you know where you will be when your real life starts, and do you know the God who can
45:38infuse real life into this life?
45:43Let's pray.
45:49Death, where is your sting?
45:54My God raises the dead.
45:56He cleanses the lepers.
45:57He heals the blind.
45:59My God is able to overcome all evil.
46:02He brings life and life to the full.
46:04He took our infirmities and bore our diseases, says Matthew 8, 16.
46:09By his stripes we are healed, says Isaiah 53.
46:13We have a God who loves us, who suffered for us, and you, God, we proclaim and we believe
46:21that you are our healer.
46:23There are brothers and sisters who are in this room suffering today, believing that
46:26they cannot be healed by what they have, and I just say that that is a lie.
46:30Our God is able to do immeasurably more than all we could ask or imagine.
46:35There are brothers and sisters in this room today who have prayed and prayed and prayed
46:38for breakthrough, and they feel like giving up.
46:40I feel like giving up, but Luke 18, verse 1 says we are supposed to pray without seizing,
46:46never giving up hope.
46:50We have a God who raised himself from the dead so that we know we will be alive forever.
46:56God, thank you so much for this, and I just pray now for those who are in this room who
47:01don't know you, God, how awesome you are, how loving you are.
47:07May they know you, God.
47:09It was my prayer at the beginning.
47:10It's my prayer now.
47:11God, flood their hearts with your presence.
47:14May every single person in this room have the joy of knowing you, Jesus, not just now
47:20but for eternity, and as we go from here, Lord, may you put it on our hearts like a
47:25fire that consumes us, that we spread your truth to every Muslim, to every non-Muslim,
47:33to every single person who's apart from you, regardless of their faith, from their country
47:37of origin.
47:38It doesn't matter.
47:39You've created them all.
47:40You do not desire that any should perish, but all should have eternal life.
47:43May we be a light and a beacon and a flame that takes this world over for your glory.
47:49In Jesus' name, amen.
47:55Would you do me a favor and would you thank Nabil one more time for being here today?
48:16You would do me a favor, if nobody had moved in this room, I know this service likes to
48:19get out of here, but you're going to stay put, really, please.
48:22This is the most important moment right now.
48:24We of every service have prayed over him, and we had asked that God would heal him.
48:31As elders, the scriptures say to anoint him with oil when someone is sick, right?
48:34Before this service, our elders came and prayed over him and anointed him with oil and prayed
48:37that God would heal him of cancer.
48:40And before we pray over him, we want to pray for those of you today who need spiritual
48:45healing.
48:47This message was for you.
48:49If you're far from God, if you've never accepted Jesus, if you've never confessed with your
48:52mouth that he is Lord, and if you've never believed in your heart that he was raised
48:55from the dead, today is your day of salvation.
48:58And we're going to pray for you that God would spiritually heal you, and we're going to pray
49:03that God would physically heal him tomorrow as he goes for scans.
49:07No coincidence that nine months later, he's sitting here and nine months, he wasn't even
49:11supposed to be here.
49:23And like we said, if God chooses to heal him, that is, I know all of our prayers.
49:28But as your family, I can tell you there'll be many in this room that will continue to
49:31pray for you.
49:33You are welcomed here.
49:34I thank you for being a man of courage, but a man of honor, that you kept your word.
49:39That when you got sick, we understood completely and we prayed for you then, but for you to
49:43come back in the midst of this and going to scans tomorrow, that was huge.
49:49But God used you in all these services.
49:51At Orange, he was simulcast in.
49:54God's used you this morning, and I just am going to pray that he heals him so he can
49:58continue to use him in great ways.
50:00So here's what we do at this church.
50:01If you're comfortable with this, you don't have to do it, but we put our hands towards
50:05the front and we just say we're in partnership with you and with God that God would heal
50:09you.
50:10So let's pray together.
50:11Father, we thank you for this moment.
50:13That is the moment you have orchestrated.
50:15It is the moment you have brought us together in this day, on this Sunday, to pray for this
50:21man, your child.
50:23And before we do that, God, as he brought your word, and as you changed and transformed
50:27his heart, he has invited others to do the same.
50:31So Heavenly Father, right now, for those who have never made a choice to believe, that
50:36they would confess with their mouth right now in their heart that, Lord Jesus, I believe
50:40you are who you say you are.
50:42I ask you to save me.
50:44I believe you were raised from the dead.
50:45I ask you to raise me from the dead and transform me spiritually that I might live for you.
50:51God, I thank you for any person in this room right now that prayed that prayer.
50:56Father, we turn to you once again and we say your will be done.
51:00In the name of Jesus, the name that is above every name, the only name that heals, God,
51:05we come in that name and we say, would you heal this man, your servant?
51:09Would tomorrow he walk in and would he astonish the doctors when they take those scans?
51:13God, would those tumors be gone?
51:15Would the stomach cancer be released?
51:17God, would you do an amazing work that only you can do?
51:20I thank you for his wife, Michelle.
51:21I thank you for his little girl.
51:22I pray your protection over them.
51:24And I pray as he goes tomorrow, he will go in your strength and in your courage and in
51:28your peace that he is in your hands.
51:31And so we ask healing.
51:33And I ask that for his mom and dad and in that relationship.
51:37And I ask, God, that you would reconcile and that you would bring hope and that light switch
51:40in his mom would go back on because she would understand the saving knowledge of Jesus.
51:44And I pray, God, that you would use him as he's your humble servant to bring that about.
51:49We give you all of this.
51:50We thank you for the family of God that we can come in love.
51:54We thank you for our brother here today.
51:56It's in your powerful name we pray these things.
51:58And everybody say, amen.
51:59Amen.
52:00See you later, guys.
52:01Amen.
52:02Amen.
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