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00:00Previously on The Bill
00:04As a result of the bullying at the school, they're very keen for us to assign them two beat officers for the foreseeable future.
00:10If Louise Larson is married to a villain, it might explain why she's been so tricky about giving us information.
00:30Good morning.
00:45It's time you're out of here.
00:47Can I get a good morning kiss or something?
00:50Well, how about a nice cup of rosy then?
00:52No.
00:53Why not?
00:54Because. No, come on.
00:55Oh, come on. What's the rush?
00:57I've got to get going and so do you.
00:59Well, if you've got time, we could...
01:03No.
01:06Out.
01:10Oh, come on.
01:16I can't believe it.
01:18I am patrolling playgrounds.
01:21It's only for one day a week.
01:22Fair enough. We've sorted out that McCann bullying business here.
01:25But bringing us here on this kind of basis is ridiculous.
01:29If teachers were allowed to administer proper discipline.
01:34Oh, you're an advocate of corporal punishment then, are you?
01:36Oh, it never did me any harm.
01:37What do you think?
01:39Anyway, going back a bit, aren't you?
01:42Teachers ain't been allowed to hit kids for years.
01:44Of course, it's the parents who are as much to blame.
01:46Yeah, you're right.
01:47We should put them in the stocks while we trash our kids.
01:50No, you can take them, Nick.
01:52There was no need to put coppers in schools when I was growing up.
01:55Those were the days, eh?
01:56Paper round in your bare feet before sun-up.
01:59Breakfast.
02:01Just a bowl of gravel.
02:04Leave it, Rog.
02:05It ain't worth it.
02:17Did you just let me shave?
02:18What?
02:19How did you know that?
02:20Oh, I miss nothing, me.
02:23What, am I under surveillance or something?
02:25No.
02:26You've got shaving cream in your ear.
02:29Late night?
02:30What?
02:30Well, shaving when you get to work is kind of a giveaway.
02:32Yeah, right.
02:33Listen, I wanted to ask you something.
02:34Louise Larson.
02:36You went back to get a witness statement signed last night, didn't you?
02:39Yeah, that's right.
02:40Well, while you were over there, she didn't offer anything else up, did she?
02:43No, not really.
02:45Just that she's not that keen on appearing in court.
02:51Guff?
02:51Guff, can I have a word?
02:54Louise Larson, the woman who was carjacked yesterday,
02:57she's definitely Pete Larson's wife.
02:58They share a place together up in Islington.
03:00Okay.
03:01Thing is, there didn't seem to be a reason for her to be around Sun Hill.
03:04I mean, according to her statement, she was visiting a friend.
03:07But it's all a bit vague.
03:08It doesn't quite ring true.
03:09You think she's hiding something?
03:10Well, not about the carjacking, no.
03:12The fact that they nicked three cars in a row
03:14suggests that they weren't specifically targeting Larson through her,
03:16although he does own several car dealerships.
03:19Legitimate?
03:20It would seem so.
03:21Although the man's no stranger to money laundering.
03:24What about her?
03:25Has she ever been involved in this shenanigans?
03:27Not as far as I know.
03:28Okay.
03:30Why don't you ask her to come in,
03:31take a look at the witness display album,
03:32see if she can identify the second carjacker.
03:34It's going to give you a chance to ask a few more questions.
03:37Okay.
03:37Tread carefully, though.
03:38I don't want to open up a big bag of trouble if we don't have to.
03:41Sure.
03:42Oh, and Zane,
03:42if we do find anything of note about her husband,
03:44we will be handing it on to the NCS.
03:46Okay?
03:48Very tough.
03:54Hello?
03:55Rog.
03:56Oh, he's got a...
03:57Rog!
03:58All right.
03:59See you, Ryan.
04:00Better talk to the head,
04:01find out what problems he's been having.
04:03Oh, great.
04:07All right, then.
04:08Come on.
04:09Let's get the jokes over with.
04:10Oh, look at Rog's face.
04:12He looks like someone's just pinched his conchers.
04:14Any of you will deal with a bag snatch
04:15in Faith Lane Juncture
04:16with Elliot Garvey,
04:17suspected IC1 female
04:19in form and at location.
04:21Sierra Oscar from Sierra One,
04:22show as assigned.
04:24Sorry, moustache,
04:25only an adult has been very, very naughty.
04:28You'll get your turn.
04:30I hope.
04:35I don't know how many ways to say this.
04:37I've only got a quick look at his face.
04:39Well, sometimes we see things
04:40we don't realise we've seen.
04:42Really?
04:44What's Pete up to these days?
04:47What's that got to do with anything?
04:49I've just wondered.
04:51Car dealing.
04:57Zion, you want to see me?
04:59Mrs Larson?
05:00Yeah, I've asked Mrs Larson
05:01to come in and have a look at some wads
05:02in relation to the second carjacking
05:04and I thought, as you were also a witness,
05:05you should have a look with her.
05:08Good idea.
05:09Just think of yourself more as a role model.
05:19Unless it's the bloke of 500 kids
05:21who spend all day laughing.
05:22What's going on?
05:33Why are you fighting?
05:34Well?
05:36We're just mucking about.
05:38Just stroke fighting.
05:40All right, boys, on you go.
05:41Kyle, both of you.
05:42Come on, on you go.
05:44You two, go.
05:45Go.
05:45Go.
05:45Go.
05:45What's your name?
05:55Mark Ledrew.
05:56Why was he thumping you, Mark?
05:58He wasn't.
06:00He's ripped your jacket.
06:02He was already like that.
06:04Is there something you want to tell us, son?
06:06I mean, that is why we're here.
06:08We were just having a laugh.
06:10Nothing's wrong, OK?
06:12What if he's bullying you or something?
06:13He's not.
06:14I can look after myself anyway.
06:23You told Sergeant Smith that you were visiting a friend,
06:26is that right?
06:27Yes.
06:28And you said that your friend lives on Eddington Lane,
06:30but you were nowhere near Eddington Lane at the time.
06:33I got lost.
06:34Not familiar with the area?
06:35No.
06:38Were you meeting your husband at this friend's house?
06:40No.
06:42We seem to have arrived back at page one.
06:44I don't recognise anyone.
06:46Now, if there's nothing else, I really do need to get going.
06:50I'll show you out.
06:51No, it's all right.
06:52I'll do it.
06:53I'm going to give her some directions.
06:55I don't want her getting lost again.
06:55Um, lost.
07:06You knew your way round the backstreet's better than I did just today.
07:09I thought we'd finish with the questions.
07:11Well, you know us, our Bill.
07:12We're always after a little bit more.
07:13Is that right?
07:15So, supposing an opportunity arose?
07:18Hello.
07:18Don't worry.
07:21I'm sure I can find my way back to Eddington.
07:24I wonder if you can.
07:25It's been a fight.
07:34Of course it has, boys.
07:35Yeah, it's a time before.
07:37Thank you, boys.
07:37Bye, Carl.
07:41Up on it.
07:41This is telling her respect.
07:42Respect?
07:44So far today, they've had me in the box trying to find a non-existent goldfish.
07:48I've had to settle a dispute over a SpongeBob SquarePants lunchbox.
07:51And they've had me up a tree trying to retrieve a game skin.
07:54When they start to show me some respect, then...
07:56It's not the right blind.
07:57Yeah, of course there is.
07:59Thanks, Kyle.
07:59Off you go.
08:00Over there.
08:01Where?
08:01Really there.
08:02Roger.
08:03C.R. Oscar from 315 in the enamelits at Hamilton Green School, over.
08:07C.R. Oscar, to see him.
08:11You!
08:11Go and get a teacher with a first aid kit.
08:14Quickly!
08:27How is he?
08:29He's fine.
08:30Have they shot the school?
08:32No.
08:32Head decided it was better to keep the kids in normal classes.
08:35Tony and Lila are dealing with the crime scene.
08:37Any idea what happened?
08:38I took witness statements from everyone in the playground at the time.
08:42Most of the kids seem to think Mark Ledrew stabbed John with a knife.
08:45The kid that we saw John fighting with earlier?
08:47Yeah.
08:48But John just told me that he fell on a bit of old metal sticking out of the bike rack.
08:52What did the doctors say?
08:53Puncture's consistent with a knife wound.
08:55So John's covering?
08:56Where's Ledrew now?
08:58Oh, he leg dick.
08:59I've circulated a description to all units.
09:01He could say he could take care of himself.
09:02Maybe this is what he had in mind.
09:04The teachers I spoke to, they said that Mark and John used to be close buddies.
09:08They go right back to primary school.
09:09But they're not anymore.
09:11One said she picked up on some friction between them lately.
09:14They used to sit together, now they hardly speak.
09:16Anything else?
09:17Well, apparently Mark's become very introverted.
09:19His scorework's been slipping.
09:21Up until recently, he's been a model student.
09:23One of the few they thought would get to university.
09:26Sensitive, artistic.
09:27You know, not the type of being carrying a knife.
09:29Maybe you're scared of being done over.
09:31I mean, they're the ones they usually pick on, aren't they?
09:33The bright kids, the ones that are a bit different.
09:36The artistic ones.
09:38I used to be artistic.
09:40I'll rest my case.
09:45The Porsche supervisor, please come to the reception area.
09:50All right, John.
09:54Somebody come to pick you up.
09:58He can talk to me, you know.
10:01Just a bloke, two arms, two legs.
10:04My mum's coming.
10:06Why did Mark Ledru stab you, then?
10:08He didn't.
10:09I fell.
10:09Oh, come on, John.
10:11The doctor's confirmed it's a knife wound.
10:13It was just an accident.
10:14Oh, yeah.
10:15You were play fighting.
10:17And Mark, no doubt, slipped while he was holding a knife and fell into you.
10:21Why have you been bullying him?
10:22I haven't.
10:23I look like you're about to get my right eye in today.
10:26I was told you and Mark were pretty close friends.
10:29Why have you fallen out?
10:30Look, it was just a stupid accident.
10:36I keep telling you, we were...
10:38play fighting.
10:39And he slipped.
10:45Oh, good afternoon, Phil.
10:48If I'd known you were going to go part-time.
10:50Don't, all right.
10:51Do you want to tell me why you're late?
10:53No, not really.
10:54Let me put it another way.
10:55Why you're late.
10:56I'm going to go and see Christine.
11:01I know this thing with Madison's a big deal, which is why I gave you time off yesterday.
11:04But if your personal life is...
11:05Christine is taking Madison to Australia forever.
11:07What do you expect me to do?
11:08Just sit back and let it happen?
11:09No.
11:10But you've still got a responsibility to your job, here.
11:12Yeah, and I've got a responsibility as a father.
11:14No offence, Phil, but it's not exactly a role you've embraced for the entirety of the
11:17child's life.
11:18You don't know what you're talking about.
11:18You have no idea what went on before.
11:20All I'm saying is that there's stuff in your past that she can use against you.
11:23Oh, really?
11:24And what if somebody used something from your not-too-distant past?
11:27There's a reason for you not to see your kid.
11:32All right.
11:33I'm going to give you a number of a solicitor.
11:35Does a lot of custody work.
11:37Personal friend.
11:39Mention my name.
11:42Now, I've done something for you.
11:43You do something for me.
11:45Sure, what?
11:46Some work.
11:47Go.
11:47Uh, this school's stabbing.
11:50We're pretty sure who did it.
11:51A kid called Mark Ledrew.
11:53He's missing at the moment, but I think somebody should speak to the parents.
11:55Hang on, Phil.
11:56I'd quite like to stay on it if I could, Gov.
11:58I've dealt with both Mark and the victim today.
12:00Have we got a motive?
12:01Well, earlier today we caught the kid who was stabbed, bullying Mark.
12:04So we think it's either self-defence or revenge.
12:07Okay.
12:08Phil, go with Roger.
12:09Follow up as assault.
12:10Thank you, dear Sonter.
12:15Yeah, Neil Manson gave me your number.
12:16Yeah, he is.
12:18Yeah, he's one of a kind.
12:20This is my daughter, actually.
12:21Her mum's trying to take her abroad.
12:25Yeah, that'd be great.
12:26Thanks.
12:29I know it's none of my business, but where's she taking us?
12:31You're right, it's none of your business.
12:33Australia.
12:34Well, she's got family out there.
12:35Listen, I thought we just established this was none of your business.
12:37I was just wondering how she got a residence visa.
12:40They're not that easy to get.
12:41Well, she's going out there on a professional visa as a beautician.
12:45And for some reason, that's part of the skill sector that they're missing down there.
12:49Where did she get that qualification, then?
12:51I don't know.
12:51Facials are us.
12:53All about going to Australia myself once.
12:55And what stopped you?
12:56I don't know.
12:57I guess I prefer my spiders without teeth and my women with them.
13:00You know, immigration are pretty hot on their checkups these days.
13:04Have they got a question mark over a qualification?
13:06They could easily hold things up.
13:13Jonathan.
13:14He's not with you.
13:15Is he not here?
13:16Well, no, I haven't seen him.
13:18He's carrying it a bit fine.
13:20How's he been?
13:21Um, well, it's hard to tell.
13:22I mean, if I didn't know him better, I'd assume he was okay.
13:24It's not as if giving evidence is a new experience for him.
13:27Yes, but sending your brother to prison for sexual abuse is...
13:30Ah.
13:31Hey.
13:31Is there a problem?
13:34No, no, no.
13:34Just wondering where you were.
13:41The questions regarding independent visas.
13:44Press 7.
13:45The queries about payment.
13:47This is the address the school gave me.
13:48I'll be with you in a minute.
13:49To speak to somebody in the visa department.
13:51Press 9.
13:51Go on, I'm not behind you.
13:53All of our operators are busy at the moment.
13:56You're being held in a queue.
13:57It should be answered in 20 minutes.
14:01I don't see if there's anybody about.
14:06Can I help you?
14:08This is my house.
14:09Mr. Ledrew.
14:10DS Hunter, PC Valentine, Sunhill Police Station.
14:14I've not had a break-in, have I?
14:15No.
14:16We're looking for your son, Mark, actually.
14:18What's happened?
14:19We want to talk to him about an assault.
14:20He wasn't at school, so we thought he might be here.
14:23Mark!
14:23He could be upstairs in his room.
14:26Would you mind if we have a look?
14:27Sure.
14:28Yeah.
14:31So you've got a day off work, then?
14:33Working lunch.
14:34Just popped home to get a couple of files.
14:37This assault, are you saying Mark did it?
14:40Yeah, well, we can't say for certain, but it's looking that way, yes.
14:42Well, somebody got hurt.
14:43John.
14:44He's in hospital, but he's going to be okay.
14:46John?
14:47John Davidson.
14:48His best mate.
14:50Oh, God, John.
14:50John.
14:51Is he all right?
14:52Yeah, he's going to be fine, yeah.
14:54Have you any idea where Mark might be?
14:56Not really, yeah.
14:57But he's a good kid.
14:58Good kid.
14:59Is his mum about?
15:01No, we're separated.
15:03Well, kids usually stay with their mum, don't they?
15:05Well, he wanted to be here with me.
15:06Mike, how's Mark taking the breakup?
15:11Well, obviously it's upsetting, but he's, you know, he's old enough to understand these
15:15things happen.
15:16I think he just wants as little disruption in his life as possible.
15:20Has Mark got a mobile?
15:22Yes.
15:24Could you call him?
15:26If you don't mind.
15:33Mark, it's Dad.
15:35What?
15:35No, no, no, I'm at home.
15:37I tend to meet you outside the school.
15:41Right, showtime.
15:42And remember, make eye contact with the jury, yeah.
15:45I know it sounds daft, but the more you convince them, the less we have to rely on young Bradley
15:49giving evidence.
15:51Now, I'll call Susie first, then I'll call you, Terry.
15:53And with any luck, we should be on to you before the end of the day, Lucy.
15:57It's still Bradley's video evidence tomorrow, though, isn't it?
15:59Yeah.
16:00Now, Lucy, you should go to the witness room.
16:02I'll take you right now, if you like.
16:04Well, what about you?
16:05I have to go to the police room.
16:08Go on, you'll be fine.
16:09Okay.
16:10She's really nervous.
16:18And you?
16:19I'm fine.
16:23Okay.
16:23It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
16:25I keep thinking if I'd had the guts to stand up once before, when I was being abused, when
16:30Ben was being abused, we wouldn't be here today.
16:33You can't go back, though.
16:35No, you can't.
16:35It doesn't stop me wanting it, though, does it?
16:47Hey.
16:49You all right?
16:50Yeah.
16:50What have you been doing?
16:51The school beat patrol.
16:52Oh, the sharp end, eh?
16:54Yeah.
16:54It's not funny.
16:55Some kid got stabbed today.
16:57Um, so have you got any more?
17:00I don't know.
17:01No notes, no messages, nothing.
17:03Well, maybe whoever it was who sent it has had their fun and gone on to persecuting someone
17:06else.
17:06Yeah.
17:07Well, the mayor stopped sending us threatening notes, but they still know I've been having
17:11an affair with a wife at the superintendent at Spicer Street.
17:15Uh, Louise, you're Smithy?
17:18Sergeant Smith.
17:20Look, I just wondered if you got home all right, that was all.
17:24Okay, well, um, yeah.
17:26Take the call and then call me straight back, all right?
17:28Bye.
17:31Look, um, Ian's going away on a course tomorrow, so I'll call you.
17:35Bye.
17:36Bye.
17:36Bye.
17:48Bye.
17:56As prosecuting counsel, I will prove to you beyond reasonable doubt that over a period
18:01of several years, the defendant, Ben Perkins, committed a series of sexual assaults against
18:07his son, Bradley Perkins.
18:09But I ask you to listen carefully to the evidence which DC Sim and DC Perkins present to you.
18:15DC Perkins, although not involved in the investigation, is in fact the defendant's brother.
18:20I don't think I need to emphasise how hard it must be for him to give evidence against
18:25a member of his own family.
18:28But I feel his doing so reflects just how serious a crime this is.
18:39Mark, um, where are you?
18:41It's me, it's Dad.
18:42Um, look, I know there's been some trouble.
18:47You need to talk to me, okay?
18:48Uh, uh, ring me.
18:53They're hard work, aren't they?
18:55Did Mark's mum want him to live with her?
18:58Yes.
18:59Yes, she did.
19:00But, uh, she's moved to France with her boyfriend, so, uh, I don't think Mark's ready to make that
19:05sort of move.
19:06One of his teachers said his schoolwork's been slacking off a bit.
19:08Well, I mean, it's difficult, isn't it?
19:10He, uh, misses his mum, so.
19:16Don't look like he's going to show, does it?
19:18No.
19:19Look, uh, I, uh, I really don't know what to do.
19:22You know, this meeting's quite important, and, uh, they're going to wonder where I am.
19:25Yeah, look, you should just go to it.
19:27All right, we'll let you know if we find him more.
19:28Right.
19:29Do you need a lift?
19:30No, no, no, no, I'll get a cab.
19:31Uh, thanks for him.
19:33Um, hi, it's me.
19:35I'm on my way.
19:35I've been a bit held up, but, uh...
19:37Poor bloke.
19:41Look, will you be out to take care of us on your own?
19:43Something I need to sort out.
19:45Yeah, sure.
19:55What did the neighbours say?
19:57Just that she saw someone forcing their way in.
19:59Not taking any chances.
20:05I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:06I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:08I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:09I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:10I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:11I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:12I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:13I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:14I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:15I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:16I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:17I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:18I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:19I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:20I don't know what we're going to find in there.
20:51We're gonna give it up, son, yeah?
20:58There's nowhere to go, is there?
21:02Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
21:04Calm down, calm down.
21:08Tony?
21:21Hello.
21:32What do you think you're doing?
21:34I thought you wanted to see me.
21:36What made you think that?
21:38When you were at the station, you were wondering whether I could find my way to Islington, so...
21:42And that means come over, does it?
21:45I just thought that...
21:46Look, you have to go.
21:48Just don't call me again, OK?
21:49What? So that's it?
21:51You're a bloke.
21:52I thought a one-night stand was the perfect deal.
21:54Well, yeah, but...
21:57I don't know, I thought it was a bit of fun.
21:58Maybe we could do it again.
22:00You've got to go.
22:01Well, let me just come in.
22:02No.
22:03Please, just go now.
22:04I don't know.
22:06This is Mark Ledrew, he's wanted in connection with the Stabby, Hamilton Green School.
22:28Oh dear. Right Tony, will you search him? Before the officer does that, have you got anything
22:41on you that you want to tell us about?
22:43Have you got anything sharp on that you might hurt me? Put your arms up.
22:48Um, I thought you and Phil were dealing with this?
22:52Yeah, we are.
22:55Thank you very much.
22:59Wait, there's more.
23:03Can you tell us what these are?
23:07Mark, you are already in serious trouble. By refusing to speak to us, you're getting yourself into even more trouble.
23:13They're not mine?
23:14So where are they from?
23:15I don't know.
23:16Have you been in touch with the parents?
23:18Yeah, we met up with his dad this afternoon.
23:20When?
23:21When we were looking for you, he was very worried.
23:24Why are you putting him through all this?
23:26Right, let's get hold of the dad and then we can interview him.
23:28Leela, put him in the detention room.
23:30Tony, get hold of the FME, get these identified.
23:35Such.
23:36This could be what the stabbing was all about. We could have just nicked the school pusher.
23:46Sir, go.
23:48Louise Larson couldn't identify anyone and I've checked the Islington Crimmins for any reports on her or her vehicle and there isn't any.
23:54Well, I think we should leave it at that for now. Let sleeping dogs lie and all that.
23:59How did it go?
24:01Yeah, well basically you said there's nothing I can do.
24:04I'm talking about Mark Ledgeroo. What are you talking about?
24:07Oh right, yeah, we haven't found him yet.
24:09Yes, we have. He's in custody.
24:11Is he?
24:12Where have you been?
24:14I went to see that solicitor.
24:15Just now?
24:16Well, he had a window.
24:17Look, I sympathise with you about this Madison business, I really do, but you cannot breeze in here at midday and then walk off two hours later to take care of family business.
24:25Gov.
24:26Sorry, is this a bad time?
24:28No, what is it?
24:29It's about the drugs Mark was found with.
24:32Drugs?
24:33Yeah, according to the FME, they're prescription drugs for depression.
24:36Are they is?
24:37Well, the dosage is very high. It's unlikely they were prescribed to a juvenile.
24:41So you reckon he's been selling them around the school?
24:43It is possible. Unfortunately, we can't interview Mark until his father gets here, and we don't seem to be able to get hold of him.
24:49Why don't you try calling him on his mobile?
24:51The mobile's been disconnected. Apparently the service has been out of operation for two months.
24:55Well, we called Mark when we were with him.
24:57Yeah, and Mark never showed. How do we know Robert even spoke to him?
25:00And get this, we just called his work. Turns out Robert Ledgeroo hasn't worked there for three months.
25:06DC Sim, could you tell the court what you did before you came to work at Sunhill?
25:11I worked in the child protection unit at Stafford Row.
25:14So, have you had experience with children who have suffered abuse?
25:18Yes.
25:19It can be quite a distressing job, I imagine.
25:22Trying to explain to a child like Bradley why somebody he loved and trusted would do something like this can be very painful, yes.
25:30And in your opinion, was Bradley displaying any symptoms consistent with abuse?
25:37Yes. He was uncomfortable with physical contact, and I found some drawings.
25:42What kind of drawings?
25:43Drawings of a sexual nature. Drawings I would consider highly inappropriate for a boy of his age.
25:49So, was there any doubt in your mind?
25:52No. Bradley had clearly suffered a great deal over a prolonged period, and without our intervention this suffering was likely to have continued.
26:07Well, look, Mark's in custody. There's nothing he can do to you. There's nothing to be afraid of.
26:13I'm not afraid of him.
26:16Look, we know you didn't fall onto a piece of metal, John. We know Mark Stadger. We even have the knife.
26:22Mark's been arrested with a large number of drugs on him. Do you know anything about him?
26:30No.
26:31So that's not what the fuck was about? What was it about?
26:37If he's your friend, like you say, then presumably you want to help him.
26:42I was trying to help him.
26:48How'd he get on?
26:49Oh, he's more frightened than anything.
26:52Has he been popping these pills we found of him?
26:54No, I don't believe he's a drug user.
26:55But he could be selling them.
26:57I really can't comment. You know that me talking with him is confidential.
27:01You don't have to tell me what he said. Just give me your opinion.
27:04It's possible that he was selling them, but I find it hard to believe there's a market in school for the amount of type of things he had on him.
27:11Thanks. Excuse me.
27:16All right, Mark.
27:18Interview commencing at 2.20.
27:21Pity Valentine, Rochelle Barrett acting as an appropriate adult, and Mark Ledrew are present.
27:28Now, Mark, you've had a chance to speak with Miss Barrett alone. Is that right?
27:35Speak for the tape if you don't mind, son.
27:37Yes.
27:38And do you need any more time to speak with her, or are you happy to do the interview?
27:45For the record, Mark nodded.
27:47We called the work number your dad gave us. They said he hadn't worked there for three months. He must have given us the number by mistake. Do you know where your dad does work?
28:01No.
28:02Well, don't tell me you don't know where your dad works.
28:05Just leave him out of it. It's got nothing to do with him.
28:08Mark, these pills we found in your bag, they're prescription drugs for depression. Did you know that?
28:16Who's are they?
28:19Mine.
28:20So, if we were to speak with your doctor, they'd confirm that they were prescribed to you.
28:27You don't have to answer anything you don't want to. I don't want to talk anymore. Aren't I allowed a lawyer here? Of course you are.
28:35You didn't want one earlier. We'll court one if you like. Are you selling these pills at school?
28:43No.
28:44Why did you stop, John? Was it about the drugs?
28:50Previous to your interview with Bradley, there had been no reported incidents of abuse made to either the police, his teachers or the social services.
28:58No.
28:59In fact, I understand the police were initially interviewing Bradley in relation to an act of vandalism. Some racist graffiti and racially harassing asylum seekers.
29:10The allegations were investigated, but no action was taken.
29:14He was also accused of a sexual assault.
29:17That allegation was never substantiated.
29:19Did it not cross your mind that by making these allegations, Bradley might have been deflecting attention away from these crimes?
29:26On the contrary. I think his antisocial behaviour was consistent with a child going through a traumatic experience.
29:33All we have is Bradley's word against his father's. A boy in serious trouble with the police. And Ben Perkins. A man who clearly loves his family. And through no thought of his own is thrown into this appalling nightmare.
29:48Bradley's mother, Lucy, didn't even want you to talk to Bradley, did she?
29:52She couldn't face what Ben was doing. She was frightened.
29:55I agree. She was frightened. She was frightened that through you, Terry Perkins was putting twisted ideas into her son's head.
30:03That's ridiculous.
30:04Is it? Bradley never so much as hinted at anything to do with abuse until he met you.
30:11It's not an easy thing to talk about.
30:13What?
30:14Not without encouragement. No.
30:20The reason we were fine, it was about his dad.
30:23His dad?
30:24A while back, Mark's dad got fired from his job. And he had like this breakdown or something. Then Mark's mum left. And then he started drinking a lot.
30:32When he had his breakdown, do you think he was put on any medication?
30:36Yeah, I think so. But now he just makes phone calls to people who don't exist. And pretend he's in business meetings and stuff.
30:43So what was the nightfall about?
30:45Well, Mark's dad brought her home one night. And he started talking about how he was going to get revenge on all the people he reckoned had lost him his job. And he thinks people are spying on him all the time.
30:56Mark took it off him?
30:57Yeah. And his pills to stop him taking them. And drinking.
31:01So why hasn't Mark told anyone?
31:03Well, he thought his dad would get put in the loony bin, obviously. I told him he needed to tell someone. To get out. But then he just freaked out at me.
31:10Right, and that's when he stabbed you?
31:12He didn't mean to stab me. It really was just an accident. I was trying to get the knife off him.
31:22DS Hunter has entered the room.
31:25Hello, Mark.
31:28Look, I know what's going on, OK? I know your dad's not well. And that you've been trying to cover for him. That you had his pills.
31:35No. He's fine.
31:37No-one's blaming you, but you've done all you can, OK? It's over now, so you can relax.
31:42Who told you there was something wrong with him? It was John, wasn't it?
31:46Look, the most important thing is that we find your dad and sort this whole thing out. Have you got any idea where he might be?
31:52John had no right to tell you that. It's none of his business.
31:55Right, let me tell you something. John's mum, she wanted to prosecute you. Might bet he was having none of it.
32:01So you're very lucky to have a mate like John.
32:04Well done, Sidsey.
32:13Oh, thanks. I'm glad it's over, though. Listen, I've really got to get back to the station.
32:19Sure.
32:20So wish Terry all the best for you. OK, OK. No, no, no. See you.
32:23At least we know where it's going.
32:24Yeah, but she's going to try and convince the jury that this is all part of some crazy agenda of Terry's.
32:29She wants to make it look as though Bradley's an unreliable witness and that Terry's unstable
32:33and that he's planted all these ideas in Bradley's head.
32:36Did you see the bruising on Ben's face?
32:38Well, I'm afraid that's par for the course in remand with this kind of charge.
32:42But I think we should tell Terry because if he goes in there and sees it, you could throw him.
32:46What could throw him?
32:47Listen, I think Ben's been beaten up. He's got bruising on his face, but he's fine, right?
32:53I just didn't want you to go in there and be caught unawares.
32:58Look, when I made the decision to do this six months ago, I knew somebody this was going to happen, but if...
33:04So I'm crazy sitting that witness for a night. I need to know what's happening.
33:08It's fine.
33:09And what they've been saying?
33:10Well, Susie's been giving her evidence.
33:12What about Ben? Has he spoken?
33:14No. No.
33:15How does he look?
33:17I've not been in yet.
33:18Well, I'm going to call you immediately, so if you've got a couple of minutes to prepare yourself...
33:22No, I'm ready now, Jonathan.
33:26DC Perkins, would you say that you and Ben were close?
33:29Yes.
33:30You'd do anything to protect and help him?
33:33Anything in my power, yes.
33:34And when you heard that Bradley had been abused, how did you react?
33:38As anyone would if their nephew was being hurt. I wanted to get to the truth, find out who was responsible.
33:45And did you form any impression as to who it might be?
33:49I knew there was a possibility it could be Ben.
33:51Why was that?
33:53Because history repeats.
33:56Both my brother and I were sexually abused as children.
34:00And when Bradley told DC Sim that it was Ben, how did that make you feel?
34:06Like I'd been kicked in the stomach.
34:08And so despite your feelings of anguish for your brother, you were prepared to go through this whole painful process for Bradley's sake?
34:16Yep.
34:17There was no way I was going to let that happen again.
34:23Sierra Oscar from Sierra One.
34:33Go ahead.
34:34We're at Bonham Wall. What's the latest?
34:36Several informants say he has smashed a number of windows.
34:39Has he actually attacked anyone?
34:41No. He went into an office where he used to work.
34:43When they asked him to leave, he began threatening them with a bottle.
34:46They think he's drunk.
34:48Don't stop him!
34:49Don't stop him!
34:50Don't stop him!
34:51Don't stop him!
34:52Don't stop him!
34:53Don't stop him!
34:54Don't stop him!
34:56Don't stop him!
34:57Don't stop him!
34:59Just schedule a meeting as you're on the bloody draft contract!
35:02Excuse me, sir!
35:03Could you wait please?
35:04I'm not going to call you back, OK?
35:06I'm just about to go into a meeting!
35:07All right, now just to help, put you on hold!
35:10Stay away from me!
35:11I'm a fighter, you know!
35:13Put the bag down now.
35:15Tony?
35:17I'm not taking any chances. I don't know what he'll do next.
35:20What are you looking at, eh? You'll be listening to my calls as well.
35:24What's that? Hey, what's that?
35:26Okay, okay, okay. Look, just calm down, alright?
35:28I'm going to put it away, okay?
35:30Now you put the bottle down.
35:35He's got acid! He's got acid! He's got acid! He's got acid!
35:39He's got acid!
35:41Guys, guys, guys!
35:47Sir Osborne 595, we've lost the suspect on Canley Footbridge.
35:51D.C. Perkins, you very candidly stated that you had been abused as a child.
35:57Yes.
35:58I'm sorry to hear that.
36:00You, of all people, must be aware of the long-term emotional damage this can cause.
36:04Yes.
36:05But you got through it, dealt with it, got on with your life?
36:08Yes.
36:09Did everything in your power to put it behind you?
36:11Yes, I did.
36:12Everything you could to forget about it?
36:14Yes.
36:15Curious, then, that you choose to work as an officer for the PPU.
36:20For the benefit of the jury, could you explain what PPU stands for?
36:25The Public Protection Unit.
36:27The Public Protection Unit, designed to monitor registered sex offenders.
36:33After all you'd been through, deliberately choosing to work in an area where you would constantly come into contact with pedophiles.
36:42It's not exactly putting it behind you, is it?
36:48You said earlier that you would do anything in your power to protect your brother.
36:53But you didn't, did you?
36:55You left him with Malcolm Willard, a man who had abused you while you went out with your friends.
37:01Yes.
37:02You told no one?
37:03No.
37:04You didn't even talk to Ben.
37:05Didn't ask whether Willard was doing the same to him.
37:06No.
37:07I wish he'd got ahead, but I didn't know.
37:08But with Bradley, you can put things right, can't you?
37:09You can protect him.
37:10I know what you're suggesting, and it's rubbish.
37:11I'm not doing this out of guilt.
37:12What happened in my past has absolutely no bearing on this.
37:13Your brother was also trying to protect Bradley.
37:14Protect him from men like Willard.
37:15That is why he told him about the abuse.
37:16That's what he said.
37:17And you didn't believe him?
37:18You didn't think that was possible?
37:19Maybe.
37:20At first, yeah.
37:21Maybe.
37:22Maybe.
37:23Maybe.
37:24Maybe.
37:25Maybe.
37:26Maybe.
37:27Maybe.
37:28Maybe.
37:30Maybe.
37:31Maybe.
37:32Maybe.
37:33Maybe.
37:34Maybe.
37:35Maybe.
37:36Maybe.
37:37Maybe.
37:38Maybe.
37:39Maybe.
37:40Maybe.
37:41Maybe.
37:42Maybe.
37:43I don't know what to believe, but Bradley is clear about it.
37:46Ben sexually abused him on more than one occasion.
37:51You don't think it's possible that Bradley got confused about what was real?
37:56He'd just been told some very disturbing things by his father.
38:00Inappropriate things.
38:02Hard for a child to deal with, wouldn't you agree?
38:05Of course.
38:06And don't you think it is possible that he could have got this mixed up in some way?
38:12That he took on what had happened to his dad and somehow thought it had happened to him.
38:17Don't you think that's possible?
38:19No, I don't.
38:20You know it seems to me that the person with the most serious personal problems in this case
38:25is not Ben Perkins at all, it is you.
38:27And I actually think you're rather jealous of your brother.
38:30No, I'm not.
38:31Because he came to terms with what happened whereas you never could.
38:34I've come to terms with it.
38:35You can sustain normal relationships with people can you?
38:37Of course I can.
38:38Then perhaps you'd like to explain to the court why you no longer see, or even speak to, your own wife and children, Mr Perkins.
38:45What's that, Ben?
38:46Ben.
38:47He's filled up Baris's head with all sorts of crap.
38:48She turned it around and threw it back at me.
38:49What's your stuff?
38:50She made me look obsessed like I made Bradley say all those things.
38:51But that's not true.
38:52Yeah, I know it's not true.
38:53I'm sorry, I blew it.
38:54No, no, no, of course you didn't.
38:55Yeah, I did.
38:56I lost my rag, I got all tongue tied, she made me look good.
38:57You've got all rules.
38:58And you lose your stuff.
38:59How does that win?
39:00Who can you...
39:01Who can you do that?
39:02Who can you do that?
39:03Who can you do that?
39:04Who can you do that?
39:05Who can you do that?
39:06What's that, Ben?
39:07Ben.
39:08He's filled up Baris's head with all sorts of crap.
39:09She turned it around, threw it back at me.
39:10That's your stuff?
39:11She made me look obsessed like I made Bradley say all those things.
39:12But that's not true.
39:13Yeah, I know it's not true.
39:14Well, it's not true. I'm sorry, I blew it.
39:16No, no, no, of course you didn't.
39:18Yeah, I did. I lost my rag, got all tongue-tied.
39:20She made me look like a head case.
39:22When the jury hear Bradley, they'll understand why you behaved the way you did.
39:25I keep thinking about all the things I should have said.
39:27And I saw the bruises on Ben's face.
39:29What? What's happened to him?
39:30He's all right. He looks like he's been in some sort of scrap hustle.
39:33Bradley can't see that.
39:34Well, he won't. It's a one-way link.
39:36It's still the same lawyer who'll be questioning him, though, won't it?
39:39He won't put Terry through it.
39:44Ah, any news on Mark Ledrew?
39:46Ah, yeah, social services took him about an hour ago.
39:49They're going to speak to his neighbours to see if they can look after him
39:51until his mum gets back into the country.
39:53Great. Has she been contacted?
39:56Yeah.
39:57And what about the boy who was stabbed?
39:58They've let him go home.
39:59OK, while we're waiting for Mark's dad to appear,
40:03I'd like you to put in an hour at Hamilton Green School.
40:05It is important under the circumstances that we connect with the staff.
40:08Thank you, Sarge.
40:12Roger, I've just got to do something.
40:14I'll catch you up in a minute.
40:15All right, mate.
40:19I can't talk now. I'm busy.
40:20You're a smith. He saw us.
40:22I saw us what?
40:23Kissing. In the corridor.
40:25What did he say?
40:26Nothing. Not yet.
40:28No, this is why we can't do this at work.
40:30What was I thinking?
40:31Don't be so worried on yourself.
40:33I know exactly what you're thinking.
40:35I'll see you later.
40:36Any unit deals 62 Relco Street Disturbance, informant at number 64.
40:45Sierra Oscar from 275. Isn't that Mark Ledrew's house?
40:48Yes. The neighbours reported Mark's dad has come back and is in the house.
40:52They said it sounds like he's wrecking the place.
40:54All right, I'm on my way.
40:54Oh, my God!
40:58So what do we really think?
40:59Well, it's good the adjournment's coming now.
41:02Might mean we'll be able to hit them fresh with Lucy and Bradley's testimony tomorrow.
41:07I mean, bringing up Terry's wife and kiss, that was pretty below the belt.
41:12Well, they use anything they can.
41:14But unfortunately, that means we're going to be relying very heavily on Lucy and Bradley.
41:17He's a child, Terry. He can't do this.
41:22This is an opportunity for him to get some closure.
41:25It's just going to traumatise him even more.
41:27Mike won't.
41:27How can you say that? Look at the state you were in when you came out.
41:30You're a grown man.
41:37Mr. Ledrew!
41:39Shall we go round the back?
41:40Mr. Ledrew, can you open the door, please?
41:44What's up?
41:44Ledrew came back.
41:45Mark was next door with the neighbours, but when he saw his daddy, he legged it back over.
41:49The neighbours said it sounded like they were fighting, like someone was going berserk in there.
41:52And Mark's still in there?
41:53They're both in there.
41:55Mr. Ledrew, if you don't open the door, we're going to break it down. Do you understand?
42:00Sorry.
42:04Mark!
42:05Mark!
42:11It's okay. Keep still.
42:12Where are you hurt? Where did he get you?
42:15He didn't.
42:16This isn't my blood.
42:18It's his.
42:20Mark, what's happened? Where's your dad?
42:23He's upstairs.
42:25All right, just do it while.
42:28What's going on?
42:29It's Mark. I think he may have stabbed his dad.
42:30Where is he?
42:31He's in there.
42:34What's going on, Mark?
42:36He just kept gutting himself.
42:39I couldn't stop him.
42:40I told you they were going to get me.
42:45I told you, but you wouldn't listen.
42:47It's a blood from the bridge.
42:49What?
42:49Now you will all have my blood on your hands.
42:52Just put the knife down, please.
42:53You made me do this!
42:54Just put it down.
42:55You were supposed to schedule a meeting for us today, Mr. Livery.
43:00What happened?
43:01Couldn't you organise a window?
43:03Peter, didn't she call you back?
43:04No, no, no!
43:06Stay with me.
43:06Stay with me.
43:07No, he's fine.
43:08I was looking after him, okay?
43:09He's going to be all right.
43:10He just needs help.
43:11Proper help.
43:11No, no, he doesn't.
43:12He's all right.
43:13Just sometimes he takes the wrong medication.
43:14You can't sort this out on your own.
43:16You need help.
43:17It takes more than one person.
43:20He's okay.
43:21He's got superficial cuts to his arms, that's all.
43:24Tell them, Dad.
43:24Tell them we're all right.
43:25I can't.
43:27Why do you always have to let me down?
43:29Why?
43:30I'm sorry.
43:31Why can't you do anything right?
43:33You're useless.
43:35It's okay.
43:35I just wanted things to be normal again.
43:37Yeah, I know.
43:38Look, he's going to be all right now, okay?
43:40Just come and make it.
43:40Come and make it.
43:44I can't do it.
43:54We've come this far.
43:55Don't you think we've suffered enough?
43:58Lucy, we've been through this.
44:01They handle it differently with juveniles.
44:04It's not like he's in court.
44:06They'll still make him out to be a lie, though, won't they?
44:11Only if he goes through this whole process
44:14and Ben isn't convicted, where does that leave him?
44:20Lucy, Ben and I carried this all our lives.
44:25We kept it to ourselves.
44:28Maybe if we'd stood up at the time and done something about it,
44:31maybe we wouldn't be in this mess now.
44:33We all have a responsibility, including Bradley.
44:40How can you say that?
44:42How can you make Bradley responsible?
44:45Okay.
44:50What if Bradley has kids one day?
44:53What are we going to start thinking now?
44:55Do we start to worry all over again, worrying about what he might do?
44:58If he doesn't give evidence, this whole trial will come out.
45:05No, Terry.
45:08I can't put him through it.
45:10I'm not going to do it.
45:11No.
45:11Next time, on The Bill.
45:19That baby didn't ask to be born.
45:21Why should it suffer?
45:22Because you're a waste of space.
45:23I was trying to do what I thought was best for my boys.
45:26By staying with a man you'd suspected of abuse for nearly two years.
45:29When all this is over,
45:30I just hope you'll be able to live it yourself.
45:32I just hope you'll be able to live it yourself.
46:02I'm going to try to be born.
46:08I'm going to try to move it.
46:28I'm going to try to be born today.
46:29I'm out of here.
46:29I'm out of here.
46:31I'm out of here.
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