00:00Pakistan is an old ally of the United States, but there used to be organizations called CETO and CENTO, and Pakistan was a member of both.
00:08So the U.S. traditionally was closer militarily and strategically to Pakistan.
00:12A number of degrees of cooperation got intensified when the Soviet Union marched into Afghanistan.
00:18The ISI actually was set up with American guidance and cooperation, we know that.
00:22Sir, the bigger, I think, trouble more is a strategic in nature, their closeness with Pakistan, especially Muneer has been hosted twice.
00:32And we are seeing some kind of a cooperation between U.S., increased cooperation between U.S. and Pakistan.
00:39So you have been to U.S. after operations in Door.
00:43So at this point of time, in the backdrop of what has happened in Pahlgaum and all that,
00:47this is giving a very, very bad vibe or bad optics to India also.
00:53Right. So we have been shaken by this.
00:55We have allowed ourselves to forget that Pakistan is an old ally of the United States.
01:00You know, we only know about NATO these days, but there used to be organizations called CETO and CENTO,
01:05and Pakistan was a member of both.
01:07And they were allies of the U.S. at a time when we were non-aligned.
01:10So the U.S. traditionally was closer militarily and strategically to Pakistan earlier.
01:15And then, as you know, a number of degrees of cooperation got intensified when the Soviet Union marched into Afghanistan
01:23and Pakistan became the base for the American orchestration of the whole Mujahideen efforts
01:28to overthrow and push out the Soviets from Afghanistan.
01:32During that time, intelligence cooperation intensified American intelligence agents and ISI agents.
01:38The ISI actually was set up with American guidance and cooperation.
01:41We know that there's a whole lot of history there that we have allowed ourselves to forget
01:46because of the more recent years of warmth.
01:50So we've had 30 years of warmth between India and America.
01:53True.
01:54But the old history should not be forgotten.
01:57There are still very many Pakistani military officers who were trained in America,
02:02who have been to American defense colleges, who have friends, batchmates from American armed forces.
02:07You have a number of Pakistani intelligence operatives who have worked and been trained by the Americans
02:12and who are close to their counterparts.
02:14So we should never lose sight of the fact that these relationships have been long and deep.
02:21And though there was definitely a setback after 9-11, when the Americans were very angry with Pakistan,
02:28and there was another setback for the Pakistanis, when Osama bin Laden was found on their soil,
02:34living in an army safe house near an army camp in a cantonment city.
02:40Despite all of that, the Pakistanis have managed to persuade the Americans
02:45that they are still an indispensable ally in counterterrorism.
02:49Again, you know, we must not forget that the terrorists Pakistan breeds to attack us,
02:55they are not the ones attacking America.
02:57The ones who are attacking America, ISIS, Khorasan, Daesh, people like that,
03:03those are groups which are also attacking the Pakistani establishment and the Pakistani army.
03:10And for them, therefore, to go after those people and tell the Americans,
03:14see what we're doing for you, is a very successful strategy.
03:18So, for example, when the Americans were withdrawing from Kabul,
03:23there was a bombing at Abbey Gate at Kabul Airport where 23 Marines were killed.
03:28The Pakistanis made a big shusha about finding the Abbey Gate bomber and handing him over to the Americans.
03:34The Americans are very grateful to Pakistan and to General Munir for doing that.
03:38Now, I don't know whether the fellow they handed over was really the main culpable person.
03:41There are anti-terrorism experts who tell me that the person is merely a patsy,
03:46that he is neither number one, number two, or number three in the operation that killed those American Marines.
03:51But if the Americans are willing to believe that Pakistan is cooperating with them on anti-terrorism,
03:56then so be it.
03:58Now, all of this history I mentioned to say that there is a relationship between America and Pakistan
04:02that is independent of India.
04:05However, given the recent context for us, as you said, rightly, Operation Sindhuur
04:13and our very, very troubled and tense relationship with Pakistan, it looks very bad in India.
04:19And definitely there is no doubt that when Mr. Trump claims to have ended the war here,
04:25when he has not even called India, and as far as we are concerned,
04:28we never needed persuading because on the day one of Operation Sindhuur, we said,
04:32we are only targeting the terrorists, there is no retaliation, we are over, we are done.
04:37If Pakistan hits us, we will hit them back, and if they stop, we will stop.
04:41So the day the Pakistanis called our DGMO, Director General of Military Operations,
04:45and said, we want to call it off, we said, fine, let's call it off.
04:49So there is no role of Trump, as you say?
04:50I mean, no one needed to persuade us.
04:52Our messaging and our signaling was clear from every day.
04:55If you were watching the same briefings I was with the Foreign Secretary and the two lady colonels,
05:00they were saying the same thing every day.
05:01If they stop, we will stop.
05:03But as long as they hit us, we're going to hit them back equally hard, if not harder.
05:06And that's what happened.
05:08So it's possible, however, and this is what I said in Washington when I was asked,
05:13that if Washington persuaded Islamabad or Rabalpindi to stop,
05:19then we have every reason to be grateful.
05:20And perhaps that's something that we may be overlooking in our objection to what Mr. Trump is saying is,
05:26we don't know what went on between Washington and Islamabad.
05:29Maybe Mr. Trump lent very heavily on the Pakistani generals and said,
05:33do not escalate your retaliation because we want peace between you and India, for whatever reason.
05:39I mean, if they did that, then we should certainly say we appreciate that,
05:42even though we didn't ask for it.
05:44And we did not ask for it because we don't believe in anyone mediating between.
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