Rohan Kanawade's "Sabar Bonda" (Cactus Pears) made history as the first Marathi feature to premiere at Sundance, winning the Grand Jury Prize in World Cinema Dramatic Competition. The quietly radical film follows bereaved Anand, who returns to his ancestral village for his father's funeral rites and faces pressure to marry, while finding hope in a rekindled relationship with Balya, a local farmer.
In this extensive interview, Kanawade discusses his intuitive writing process, navigating development labs while protecting his vision, and his meticulous storyboarding approach. With theatrical release scheduled for September 19, Kanawade expresses hope that audiences experience the carefully crafted images and sounds in cinema.
Follow us:
Website: https://www.outlookindia.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Outlookindia
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/outlookindia/
X: https://twitter.com/Outlookindia
Whatsapp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VaNrF3v0AgWLA6OnJH0R
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@OutlookMagazine
Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/outlookindia
#RohanKanawade #Queer #Cinema #HumanConnection #IndianFilmmake #LoveStory #Storytelling
In this extensive interview, Kanawade discusses his intuitive writing process, navigating development labs while protecting his vision, and his meticulous storyboarding approach. With theatrical release scheduled for September 19, Kanawade expresses hope that audiences experience the carefully crafted images and sounds in cinema.
Follow us:
Website: https://www.outlookindia.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Outlookindia
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/outlookindia/
X: https://twitter.com/Outlookindia
Whatsapp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VaNrF3v0AgWLA6OnJH0R
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@OutlookMagazine
Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/outlookindia
#RohanKanawade #Queer #Cinema #HumanConnection #IndianFilmmake #LoveStory #Storytelling
Category
😹
FunTranscript
00:00Many Indian filmmakers were also saying where the film ends right now. They were like, no, we think film should end over there. And I said, maybe for you, not for me, because I'm not any other filmmaker. Because I realized when every other filmmaker is saying that this is where film should end, I saw that. And I told them, you know what, this is the popular choice to end the film. I'm not making that.
00:23Hi, and welcome to Outlook Talks. Today, I'm joined by Rohan Kanavade, the writer and director of Harvard Wonder Cactus Fairs, which won the World Cinema Grand Jury Prize at Sundance and is finally hitting Indian screens on 19th September. Rohan, thank you for giving me time. I was lucky to catch the film at Virtual Sundance. It blew me away. So thanks for taking out the time for this.
00:49Thank you so much for inviting me.
00:51So I thought we could begin with the writing process a bit, because you say you don't have a particular roadmap while writing. You don't have an outline or character backstory. It's pretty much in your head. But tell me, how much of intuition versus planning is involved in developing a narrative? Do you need to know what the end looks like or just figure things along the way?
01:10Most of the time I figure things along the way. But specifically in terms of this film, I knew I didn't want the tragic ending that we usually see, that I didn't want. But then exactly what I had no idea about that.
01:26So that I was clear. I had that clarity in my mind before I started writing. But how I will reach to that point of the climax and what will be the climax of this story, I had no idea about that.
01:44All I had in my mind. All I had in my head was just the visual notes of the film in terms of some sequences, some images, some sound notes that I wanted to use.
01:55And because all of this also came from my experience of grieving my father in my sister village.
02:00So many things came from that experiences. But large portion, which is the romance drama, that is completely fiction.
02:09So, you know, that I figured it out along the way as I was writing the film.
02:14I mean, some details about the character that I knew, but incorporating them in the screenplay, that happened while I started writing the screenplay.
02:24So that's my usual process. I just start writing the first scene.
02:34And after I finish the first scene, you get an idea for the second one and the third one. That's how I keep writing.
02:40And yeah, that's how I continued. And I came to the end of the story and which I felt it was more organic.
02:47So, I mean, but as I said, the clarity was there that I want to end this story on a hopeful note, not completely happy also, but the hopeful note, optimistic note.
03:01Optimistic note.
03:02So, yeah, that was the process. Mostly you figure things out as you write it.
03:07Now, at what stage was the script already in before you took it to the labs?
03:13Because talking about the labs, you know, of course, they have been great support for a lot of independent filmmakers.
03:18That's the only option available for them.
03:21You get a lot of visibility in the markets. Your project gets known a lot.
03:25But then people say that, you know, the projects get doctored.
03:29They might get diluted in their essence a bit.
03:32It kind of gets loaded into a different direction.
03:35Tell me what stage the script was in when you reached the labs, when you started and where it kind of began with.
03:42So, basically, as I said that I don't write any outline or anything.
03:48I always have my screenplay.
03:50And if you know, David Lynch, you know, he said the filmmaker's currency is not an outline, not character, art or history.
03:57His or her currency is the finished screenplay.
04:01So, thankfully, I always work on the screenplay.
04:03I don't work on the story or anything.
04:05I always work on the screenplay.
04:06So, even before we started writing, applying to the lab, we had our screenplay ready.
04:13And my first lab was NMDC lab.
04:17And my mentor was Umesh, the filmmaker.
04:20And he told me in that lab, Rohan, you already have whole screenplay ready.
04:26Your structure, everything is there.
04:28What will change is just minor details and things like that.
04:32And that always happens.
04:33You know, that's okay.
04:34But you already have a screenplay ready.
04:36Please stop going to the labs and market.
04:38Otherwise, you'll keep doing this only and you will not make it.
04:41And that happens sometimes.
04:42You will see some people that go to lab.
04:45They just keep going to the labs and stuff.
04:46But they never get paid.
04:48So, he was saying that please don't do that.
04:51You know, you already have a film.
04:52So, now work towards making the film.
04:56So, it was already there.
04:57And similarly, when we went to Venice Venale College Cinema.
05:00Now, Venice Venale College Cinema is a completely different kind of initiative.
05:05It's not only lab or it's not only market.
05:08And it's not only for the writer.
05:10It's for director and producer.
05:12So, their program focuses on developing the script and taking all the way to the finished film.
05:19So, many participants who came there, not all of them had their screenplay.
05:26Most of them had just an outline or detailed outline of the scenes or something.
05:32They didn't have a screenplay.
05:33So, many of them started developing the screenplay after coming there.
05:37And after the first workshop that we had over there.
05:40But in my case, I always had the screenplay.
05:42And I always knew what I actually wanted to make.
05:45So, yeah, what you said can happen by going to these places.
05:50Sometimes, your film can become completely different than what you wanted to make.
05:55And what happens is because these mentors are seniors.
05:59They have done more work than you.
06:01So, that also puts you in a doubt.
06:03Yeah.
06:04Yeah.
06:05That also puts you in a doubt if what you are doing is right or what they are doing is right.
06:11But that is when you have to put on your filters.
06:14And that is why it's important to know what you want to make.
06:18Even when I do feedback session with my friends, when they share their scripts with me, I ask them what you want to make.
06:27What kind of a film do you want to make?
06:28Because then that discussion makes sense.
06:30Then once I get to know what they want to make, then I can have a discussion or feedback.
06:34Otherwise, only if I keep saying, okay, I've read this, but I think this should not happen, that should not happen, you should do this, you should do that.
06:42That is not helpful to anyone.
06:44So, I think knowing what you want to make is more important than getting any feedback from no matter how big a person is.
06:52You know, so, and that is why at these places, you have to put on your filter, know what is really going to help you refine your screenplay.
07:03And I like, in my case, I have been told that, you know, we should think that we should have this happy or hopeful ending.
07:14We should have the usual tragic end.
07:17And I said, sorry, that's not going to happen.
07:18And I'm not going to do that at all, no matter what you say.
07:22And the mentors...
07:23But do you see this kind of input coming from international mentors or was it the Indians?
07:29But see, I mean, even Indian mentors had their own different suggestions.
07:32They did not always were helpful for me.
07:35So, you know, like where films should end.
07:39Many Indian filmmakers were also saying where the film ends right now.
07:43They were like, no, we think films should end over there.
07:46And I said, maybe for you, not for me, because I'm not any other filmmaker.
07:51Because I realized when every other filmmaker is saying that this is where films should end, I saw that.
07:56And I told them, you know what, this is the popular choice to end the film.
08:01I'm not making that film.
08:03And if you know everyone is making that film, then how my film is different than other filmmakers.
08:09And I don't want to do what everyone else is doing.
08:11I want to do how I see this story.
08:16Or how I want to use this medium of cinema and tell different kind of story in a different way.
08:22And that is when the story will be different, right?
08:24That is when each director's story will be different.
08:27We let them do what they want to do.
08:30Otherwise, then this is what happens.
08:31Then everyone is making the same film.
08:37Then how are we, you know, creating difference in our storytelling?
08:42And that is why I know what I always want to do.
08:46And I always put my filters on.
08:49And I only filter what is really helpful to the film.
08:53The rest, I don't listen to.
08:55And in this film, there's this great weight that builds from Anand, you know, holding himself in.
09:02But there's a kind of contrast with Balia who strikes as an initiator.
09:05Very sure in the skin.
09:07And in his company, of course, Anand blooms up.
09:09Were you always keen on this kind of juxtaposition from the very beginning?
09:13So I think both boys are completely comfortable with what they are.
09:19Difference is Anand is going through grief.
09:22Through the grieving period, yeah.
09:23Plus he's surrounded by relatives who are pressurizing him to get married.
09:27And I was like surprised that some of the audiences starts when they said,
09:33Oh, how come Balia is more outgoing and more forward than Anand?
09:38And I was like, why are you not realizing Anand's situation at this moment in the story is different?
09:45That is why he's like that.
09:47Otherwise, he wouldn't have told his parents, right?
09:49In the story, actually, Anand is out to his parents.
09:51Balia is not out to his parents.
09:53It's just the situation that he's in for this period of time.
09:58That is what is making him go, you know, be quiet and not respond to anything.
10:02And, you know, he's that quiet and may come across as if he's not comfortable with his sexuality or what he is.
10:10But that's not the case.
10:11It's just the situation that is there.
10:13And again, for Balia, I think that the simple fact that he's a farmer and in villages, women are rejecting farmers and they don't want to get married to farmers.
10:25It's really working for him.
10:26And he is the one who says, OK, I don't have to say anything.
10:30And, you know, I am getting rejected, which is a good thing for him.
10:33So, you know, I found that contrast quite, you know, interesting because there are other farmers, men who are heterosexual, who really want to get married to women.
10:45The situation is really tragic.
10:48You will find so many news pieces also on YouTube of farmers of Maharashtra.
10:54You will see that they talk about how their parents have developed health issues.
10:58Some of them have had heart attacks, the BPs or so many other, the depression and all those things that this is real.
11:08But for a person like Balia, that is, but even in his case, his parents are really going through, you know, the difficulty that why, you know, I mean, we want our son to get married.
11:20But, you know, the situation and all that, but Balia is rather happy that, OK, you know, this is happening and I can stay unmarried.
11:26So, I thought these are the interesting parts that I can really add into the film.
11:31But let's talk about storyboarding, which you do extensively.
11:35Jane Campion says the more you do it, the more static control you have over it.
11:39Many directors say this.
11:40Many of us say that you should not look at the storyboards before the filming starts because you might get too attached to the script, to the storyboard.
11:48What is your relationship with the storyboard like with you and the DP?
11:51See, I think it's every director has his or her own way of working and they have their own process.
11:58So, everyone's process is good for them.
12:00So, for me, this is how I work and this is what I'm comfortable in working.
12:08And first thing, film is a visual medium.
12:11At the end of the day, we are going to create images, right?
12:13And if my background in interior designing and I can draw and I can imagine, if I can imagine the whole film on paper, just the way you're writing, right?
12:24You're writing the scene.
12:25You're writing the images that you're going to shoot in the screen.
12:28You're writing the images.
12:29But if this part that I have in me of drawing and imagining the space, if I can use it to go a little further and draw the whole film out for the whole team and for me, so I can see how the whole film is looking and the team gets to know everything in detail.
12:49I think that works for my team.
12:51I think so that's why I work for it.
12:52That's why I work in that way.
12:54And I think at the end of the day, we are creating images, right?
12:57So, and I feel that before we start shooting, we do work on our screenplay, right?
13:04We do the revisions and revisions and revisions and revisions, right?
13:07I think similarly, when I finish the screenplay and I start thinking about images, I am doing this for that reason because I want to create those images.
13:17So, I'm doing this work to create that.
13:19And so, what's the problem?
13:21Because I don't feel comfortable on going on the set, on the shooting, then figuring out how I want to create the scene.
13:27Because many a time, this is when we see our film after a few days and we think, oh, shit, I should have done that.
13:32I should have taken this shot that way.
13:34I should have taken this shot that way.
13:35Oh, this angle is not right.
13:37I would have done it that way or I would have used some other lens.
13:41This happens later on.
13:42But I do that in the beginning.
13:43So, I have enough time to think about my images and be sure this is what I want to shoot.
13:48And in this way, I also eliminate overshooting.
13:52I already do the editing by doing the storyboard.
13:56Okay, this is how it is.
13:58So, my short breakdown is my storyboard.
14:00So, my editor also goes through it.
14:02My DOP goes through it.
14:03Everyone goes through it.
14:04And everyone is sure this is what we are shooting, nothing else.
14:07And film's language and everything is set even before we have shot the film.
14:11So, I am comfortable with that.
14:13And why Bong Joon-ho does it?
14:16Satya Ji Kari is to do it.
14:17Yeah, I'm doing it.
14:18So, many filmmakers, big filmmakers, they have been doing it.
14:22So, I mean, I just don't find this argument.
14:25I don't buy this argument.
14:26And I'm saying these things of magic.
14:28And it's okay.
14:29Maybe for other directors.
14:30But I'm not saying they are wrong or I am right or anything.
14:32It works for them is sure.
14:33But I think forcing these things on someone.
14:36Because I remember there have been friends who have been telling me, oh, how can you write like that?
14:42You know, there is a science of storytelling and this and that.
14:45You should always write a story and arc and this and that.
14:47And then you should go for that.
14:48I said, no, it doesn't work for me.
14:51I feel comfortable writing this one.
14:54This is my process.
14:55So, you know, let everyone have their own process.
14:57Why?
14:58As long as we can create something, that's most important.
15:02How we create, that's individual's process.
15:04So, I don't think we should force any process on anyone.
15:06That is why I keep telling, you know, these students or anyone ask, may I just keep telling them, please find your own process.
15:13I'm just saying my process, which is okay.
15:15It's nice to know everyone's process, how they work.
15:18But at the end of the day, you have to find your own process to, you know, how you want to work.
15:23That's most important.
15:25Tell me about Niraj Suri, the primary producer who had faith in your voice right from your earlier shot.
15:32through the four or five years journey of this film from Superman to becoming Cyberbondant.
15:38Tell me a little bit about that.
15:39I mean, we started working together in 2018.
15:43We made a short film.
15:45Cool, shut up.
15:46But we met in 2017 and he had seen some of my short films.
15:50And when we met at a festival, he said he really loved my work and he would like to collaborate.
15:55And that is how...
15:56He came down to the festival.
16:00His film was there that year.
16:01So, and I went to Attentic because I didn't have anything.
16:04So, I just went there to watch films.
16:05I had kids that year, but that was not a question.
16:08So, it was not in Kashir.
16:09So, I just went to watch films.
16:12So, he saw me there and he came to talk to me.
16:15And that's when he said, you know, I really love your films and I would love to collaborate.
16:19And that's how we ended up creating Ushasa.
16:22And when we made that, he expressed his desire to make a feature film together.
16:27And I said, yeah, even I want to make a feature.
16:29Let's see how that goes.
16:30And I still remember when we had Ushasa Irish Prize screening in UK, which was in Cardiff.
16:40So, after finishing that festival, I came with him back to London and I was staying with him for a few days in his house.
16:45And one day he took me to this bar and there while having drinks, he said, what do you want to achieve after five years?
16:53And I was like, I want to make my feature film.
16:57And he was like, oh, that's an interesting answer.
17:00I thought he will say you want to become famous or something like that.
17:04I said, you know what?
17:06If I make a good film, that will do that work.
17:09But before that, I have to have some good work, right?
17:12So, I want to make my first feature.
17:16And this year in June, when we had our UK premiere at South by Southwest, and he again took me to the same bar and I told him, I had said that what I want to achieve in the next five years.
17:30Finally, we are here with our film and we won South by Southwest also.
17:34So, I told him, he had almost forgotten that and it reminded him.
17:39So, when in 2020, I wrote this feature, I shared it with him and he really liked it.
17:47And because we had already worked together, so he knew what kind of, and he had seen my films, he knew what kind of films I really liked to make.
17:54And he was interested in that.
17:56And he really liked this film because somewhere he saw himself in a way, he grew up in Badlapur, which is,
18:02which is close to Mumbai, but when he was growing up, it was a small village.
18:09So, you know, he kept saying, I grew up in a village and, you know, that is why he resonated with this story.
18:16And he was like, I want to do it.
18:18And that's how we started working together.
18:21And he always had that faith and that faith and belief.
18:27And he keeps saying that my conviction actually also, you know, drives him.
18:32That's okay.
18:32He wants to support.
18:34So, I think that those were the things.
18:36So, he stuck with the film for the last five years and we made it.
18:40We even had to mortgage his house, which is not a good thing, which is not a good thing.
18:44And because we never got any support and we had no option in front of us.
18:52Otherwise, we had no film.
18:55And so, there was no option and finally had to take that route to mortgage his home and raise money, which is a sad thing.
19:02And I mean, I think filmmakers should not, you know, face this thing.
19:06And I just hope that we had enough people to really believe in filmmakers that are coming out now with their films.
19:15I just, and you will see every, you will see everyone, even when you hear them, they will all say no one really believes it.
19:20Why that?
19:20I met Nagraj Mandule yesterday and he was telling me his experience of Sairat, pitching Sairat.
19:26And he said, no one was understanding this.
19:29And that is the biggest problem.
19:30You know, whenever we go to someone to pitch our film, most of the time they don't understand what is this.
19:35And the problem is the way a filmmaker imagines the film.
19:40Other people can never imagine.
19:41And that is why this problem is that they keep saying that, oh, what is this?
19:44We don't understand.
19:45We know this is not, no one's going to watch it.
19:47You will hear that from all the producers.
19:50Sorry, all the filmmakers.
19:51And I just hope that we had enough producers who had equally good imagination the way filmmakers have.
19:58And they could, they can also imagine and think that, okay, this is something interesting and we should support this.
20:04Because the kind of films in filmmakers, independent filmmakers are making, they are completely different than what popular filmmakers are doing or popular films do.
20:14And that is why the producers also need to have that kind of imagination.
20:19Oh, this is different, but this is interesting.
20:20And we should bring this in front of audience.
20:22Only then we'll get support to different kind of storytelling.
20:26And that didn't happen with us as well.
20:28So that is why I needed that too.
20:30But this is what it is.
20:31He believed in the story.
20:33We worked together.
20:34So he knew.
20:35He always said he knew that I will make something interesting.
20:38He had that belief.
20:40So, you know, that is why he took that step and mortgaged his house to raise them.
20:44But tell me through this idea of when you have explained out, what do you tell yourself?
20:48Because I never said this will not get made.
20:52I was always telling myself, I want to make, I don't know how this will, this all will work out.
20:58I always wanted, I never said, oh, forget it.
21:00Now I don't want to make.
21:01And that never happens.
21:02For that matter, whenever I'm writing a screenplay, no matter what, how many doubts you have, I always make a point.
21:09I finish that screenplay.
21:10If you leave it halfway, then you have not even given the chance to see if that finished screenplay makes any sense.
21:20And if you can work on it again to make it work.
21:23Because until and if you have anything on paper, how can you revise it to make it perfect, right?
21:27So you have to finish it.
21:29Similarly, and see, that is why I toy whenever I have an idea with me.
21:33I toy with that idea for a very long time.
21:35And that tells you if that idea stuck with me for that long, then I know I have to make it.
21:40And then I want to make it.
21:41Only thing that you're going to get support for that or no.
21:45With my previous film, I never got producers who wanted to make those films.
21:49So I never got money to make it.
21:51With this film, Neeraj was ready to do it.
21:54And we started this journey together.
21:56Of course, there was a lot of rejection.
21:59Even Sundance had rejected the screenplay in 2021.
22:02So, you know, and these are big heartbreaks when you're making the film, right?
22:07But I wanted to make it.
22:09I just didn't know how I will make it and when I will get that support.
22:13But thankfully, unlike my previous feature film screenplays, with this screenplay, at least I started getting people on board.
22:20And people were really interested and they're joining the team.
22:23And so we started building the team of really good technicians, like HODs and actors, even though they are first-time actors, but they were on board.
22:33And I was really happy to have them because they're really terrific actors.
22:36So that is how this, you know, it started working out, you know.
22:41But of course, we didn't have money.
22:42But I knew I wanted to make it.
22:44And not only make it, I want to take it to, I want to have a world premiere at the biggest festival.
22:48And I want to go to the world.
22:49I always have these biggest aspirations.
22:52Only thing you don't know how to achieve it and what are the ways.
22:55But until and unless you have those goals, how will you work towards them, right?
22:58And people who say, you know, we don't make films to go to this festival or that festival.
23:05And I don't believe, I personally don't believe in that.
23:08It's as simple as that.
23:09If, like, we tell our children, what do you want to become?
23:12And people say, I want to become a doctor or this or that.
23:15But to become that, we also tell them, but then you have to study hard and this and that.
23:19It's exactly that thing.
23:21If I want to reach to that level, I have to work on that.
23:25And until and unless I have that goal.
23:27So if, let's say, Sundan, I want to go to Sundan.
23:30Imagine the competition.
23:32I have, I am competing with the whole world.
23:35And you know, world cinema, the kind of quality they have in their films, in terms of technical
23:41quality, performances, storytelling, everything.
23:44You are competing with them.
23:45So you have to really hard to go there and to compete with them.
23:49So I believe in that, that if you want to reach somewhere, you have to work on it.
23:53And for that first, you have to set goals.
23:55Without setting goals, you, other things don't happen.
23:59Tell me about the shooting logistics.
24:01This, this, when you have this dry IITD that seeps through the frames.
24:05And of course, the region is dry.
24:07But in terms of erratic, erratic pain, erratic weather, what, what was the difficulty?
24:12Tell me about it.
24:13Whether it was a big difficulty because, and difficulty, I mean, everything, it's, it's exactly
24:21the way the one supports you, it was, it was, I, we were feeling like even nature is against
24:25us.
24:26You know, everything, you, you start getting problems that you never thought of.
24:30Like, that region is completely dry where I shot the film.
24:34I shot it in my mama's village, which is an hour away from Shirdi.
24:38And that region is dry that year.
24:40So, we have our monsoon season, right?
24:43But in that monsoon season, the village didn't receive any rain.
24:47Okay.
24:48And then we were shooting in winter.
24:50And then I was like, I must say, this region is dry.
24:53So, in winter, it becomes really dry.
24:54And I wanted that look.
24:56But guess what?
24:57You go there and it starts raining.
24:58And I'm like, here, it didn't happen in monsoon.
25:02It was, and the, the farmers were really, I mean, can you imagine, my mom, some of the
25:07farmers in that village, they were saying, if this continues, villages will have to leave
25:12this village.
25:13Because we don't know why, how to farm.
25:16We don't have water.
25:18We will have to leave.
25:19It was that kind of a condition in monsoon.
25:21And when we started shooting the film, it was raining.
25:24And it used to become cloudy and it used to rain.
25:26And I was like, what is still coming?
25:27And then that was the thing we had to tackle with.
25:31And when it was raining, we had to stop.
25:33Global water became really needed.
25:35And I started saying that to my crew, that this is happening because of the global warming.
25:39And imagine what will happen in the next few years.
25:43And by that, even we didn't get sabarbunda there.
25:47None of the cactus peas had sabarbunda over there.
25:50I mean, first of all, my mama's village, villagers killed all the cactuses there.
25:55Because they said, already, you know, this plant is useless and it sucks the water and
25:58already we don't have water.
25:59It sucks the water.
26:00So, they all, they burned down all the cactuses in the village.
26:03Even my mama's house had almost 15 to 20 mango trees.
26:07They cut down all the mango trees.
26:08So, people are cutting down trees even in the villages.
26:12Right?
26:12Like, that is happening.
26:13So, we didn't get, we didn't get any cactus tree in the village.
26:17So, we had to go almost, almost one and a half hour away in a different village to shoot
26:21the cactus tree.
26:23And even in there, they didn't receive the rain and the villagers started saying, oh,
26:26because it didn't rain, that is why, you know, there won't be any fruit on the tree
26:30this year.
26:31So, we had to sort cactus pears from Gujarat.
26:34So, you know, all of these things were happening.
26:36So, that is, I started saying, man, I mean, after the next few years, I don't know what
26:39will be the condition and that is, I don't want to make next film outdoor.
26:45I would like to set it indoor.
26:46Forget it.
26:47I'm not going to be, I don't want to deal with all of these things anymore.
26:50So, that was a big, big, I mean, and with, you can't fight nature, right?
26:54You can't.
26:55We just had to set and wait.
26:57We will have this bright sunlight and when we will shoot.
27:02So, we had to just wait.
27:03And because of those reasons also, our shoot extended.
27:08But one thing happened.
27:09One thing happened.
27:10One good thing happened was that lake that you see, because it didn't rain, there was
27:14no water in the lake and I was like, I don't know what to do now.
27:19I mean, there is no water.
27:20Now, we have to find a water body somewhere else.
27:23But, you know, that sequence happened almost during the sunset.
27:27So, everyone's worry was, what if we don't reach that location on time and sunsets?
27:32Then we can't shoot.
27:34Then we have to postpone that shoot for the next day.
27:36And anyway, we wanted to shoot that scene two days because before they go into the water
27:41and next day when they come out of the water.
27:43That's why we had to shoot it in two days.
27:45But then that would have been a big problem if we lose light.
27:50So, I was really scared what to do.
27:52But thankfully, that rain happened.
27:53Then even though that rain happened and we were cursing the rain, but a good thing happened
27:57because of that rain.
27:58That lake was full.
27:59By the time we came to that sequence, lake was completely full.
28:03And then we could shoot in the village at that lake.
28:06That good thing happened.
28:07So, yeah, I mean, maybe now talking to you, I suddenly realized that now, even though I
28:12was cursing the rain, I think that rain also was in some ways then helping us to create
28:17that water body over there to fill the lake.
28:19And so, we could shoot it there and could save time.
28:21So, yeah, I mean, these are the things that happen.
28:24But sometimes, yeah, they are frustrating when they happen.
28:27And then you can't do work and that's challenging.
28:31And for filmmakers, it's challenging because we don't have enough money.
28:34And then if soon, we have to spend more money.
28:37And then that becomes...
28:39It's a shot within 40 days or more.
28:42It's a shot within 40 days.
28:45What kind of actors, actors, director are you?
28:48Tell me how hands-on you are with actors beyond sculpting tone, the gestures.
28:52Do you like your actors to be just empty vessels to receive what you have to say?
28:58Or do you like them to also be equally very collaborative?
29:02I think this question is actually for actors and not for me.
29:05But I like control because I want everyone to do what I really want in a film.
29:14And that is director's job.
29:15I mean, that's okay.
29:16I am like, I work this way.
29:18I have my own processes.
29:19So, I work this way.
29:20Of course, they also put their own things in the film.
29:25It's not that they don't.
29:26But largely, I always tell them what I'm looking for.
29:31And there are always surprises also.
29:33They do something.
29:34Oh, yeah, that is nice.
29:35That happened during the reading or that happened during the shoot.
29:39So, we did readings only of dialogue.
29:40So, we didn't do rehearsals of the workshop.
29:42We did only readings of dialogue on Zoom because everyone was in a different part of Maharashtra.
29:48And we didn't have resources to get everyone together and work together.
29:53So, what we did was we used to only read dialogues.
29:58And I dumped everything on Zoom.
30:02That how I'm imagining, how I'm hearing the dialogues or what kind of tone I want.
30:06And which was mostly the simple tone.
30:09The way we talk in real life.
30:10It's so simple.
30:11It's so grand, it's so grand, it's so grand.
30:13It's so grand, it's so grand, it's so simplicity.
30:14And so, I was working with them to bring that simplicity in their performance and in their dialogue delivery.
30:20So, on Zoom, during readings, I worked on the dialogues.
30:24And then on the shooting days, I was just shaping their physical performances.
30:29So, of course, they also added their own things in the film.
30:32It's not that they didn't.
30:33But yeah, if their addition fit the vision or no, that was the choice.
30:39When it fit the vision, of course, we went ahead.
30:43Like the sequence where Anand and Mother, Anand is almost in the veranda.
30:48Anand is lying on the floor.
30:49It wasn't like that in the screenplay.
30:52But before we started shooting and we were setting the camera, I just asked them to be there in their position.
31:02And Bhushan just, he was lying on the floor like that.
31:06And I said, that is nice.
31:07Do that, do that.
31:08So, these things happened.
31:10So, you have to be also open to receive these things and open to absorb these things.
31:17Certain things that happen, that might also, you know, add value to your film and to your visuals, whatever that was.
31:24So, I'm always open to that as well.
31:27This imposition of this queer film on Sabhar Bonda, you might have said it, but different directors shared very different relationships with the term.
31:36When Akishat Thang was asked, he was like, no, don't ask me this question.
31:40And he was like, queer means about openness to possibility.
31:43I can be anything, but don't aspire to sexuality.
31:45But then there's Harine Siyama who says, my filmmaking is very lesbian.
31:49There's strength in the term and it's political, but it's not limiting.
31:53So, don't bullshit me that.
31:54But tell me, how do you reflect on queerness, not in terms of identity, but as a syllogacy, as artistic practice?
32:02See, I really don't think about all of these things.
32:06And what I think about is, and let's just say, even this film, my aim was not to make a queer film or anything.
32:14My aim was to make a film that feels human.
32:17And I personally believe that sexuality is not anyone's, at least mine.
32:23I don't consider sexuality as my identity.
32:25That's the part of my personal life and that is for me.
32:28So, and that is the reason I tried to portray this character as human being first, you know.
32:33And you will see that some of the films, some of the films that deals with sexuality, they always surround around identity or acceptance and struggle.
32:42This film doesn't do any of that at all.
32:45And that is what I want to do.
32:47And only when you do this, I feel that's when you will normalize these stories, right?
32:53And normalizing these stories is high time right now.
32:58I want audience to look at this film, look at this relationship, just like any other love story.
33:03That was my goal.
33:05So, I think of it as that.
33:07I was not trying to make any queer film or queer love story and all.
33:12And just because of the lack of the word, sometimes you have to use this word so that you can reach out to some people.
33:18But I think, and thankfully, many audiences who watched the film, they also said the same thing that, you know what, we saw it as any other love story.
33:27It didn't matter to us that there are two men who are falling in love.
33:30What mattered to us that that love was so pure and watching them falling in love was so heartening.
33:36And we just enjoyed that.
33:37And these are heterosexual men also I'm talking about.
33:40Please don't label.
33:41They were coming to us and telling us that please don't label this as a queer film.
33:45I said, I don't want to.
33:46But then media and everyone, they keep using this word.
33:49And that is why, you know, this word starts spreading a lot.
33:51But I personally wanted to just tell stories of human beings.
33:55And I wanted to tell a story of connection between humans.
33:59That's all.
34:00And one last question.
34:01Have you shown the film to the villagers?
34:03Have that happened?
34:04We haven't shown the film in India yet.
34:06So, you know, they have not.
34:08We are going to have our cast and crew screening also soon.
34:12So, the cast will also see the film.
34:14Other than the two lead and the mother, they have seen the film because they came to Sundance.
34:18But the rest of the actors have not seen the film.
34:21So, we want to do that film.
34:22So, we will invite some villagers as well who helped us during the shoot.
34:26So, we will invite them as well.
34:28So, that's when they will see the film.
34:30Okay.
34:30Thank you so much.
34:31This is such a quietly radical film.
34:33And good luck with the release.
34:34I think great things are waiting for this film.
34:36And I can't wait to see.
34:38I mean, everyone can't wait to see what you do next.
34:42So, thanks a lot.
34:43Thank you so much.
Be the first to comment