- 2 weeks ago
Prime Minister Narendra Modi will visit Manipur tomorrow, marking his first trip to the state since the outbreak of ethnic violence in 2023 that claimed more than 200 lives.
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00:00Let's raise the big questions then.
00:03Prime Minister Manipur outreach, is it too little, too late?
00:07Delivering justice is really the key to Manipur peace?
00:11Is it time to lift President's rule and hold elections?
00:15And is Manipur still the biggest security challenge for the Modi government?
00:19Questions I want to raise.
00:20Joining me now, Lieutenant General Khonsam Himalai Singh,
00:24ex-Core Commander 16 Corps,
00:26former Chairman Manipur Public Service Commission.
00:30Thongolai Haukip, Associate Professor,
00:32Center for the Study of Law and Governance at JNU,
00:35former advisor to the Kuki Students Organization, or KSO.
00:39And Binalakshmi Nepram, Founder Director,
00:42Manipur Women Gun Survivor Network.
00:45I appreciate all my guests joining us.
00:47Let me come to you first, Binalakshmi,
00:51and ask you the question,
00:53do you believe that the Prime Minister's visit is too little, too late?
00:56Or is it simply now another opportunity, a window of hope that we have that Manipur's ethnic divide can finally be bridged with a healing touch from the Prime Minister?
01:08Thank you, Rajdeep.
01:12First of all, Manipur continues to be a wounded state.
01:16I have just come back from different, what is known as buffer zones,
01:21areas where, in the communities who have been living in community with each other,
01:28trading, exchanging vegetables, marriage alliances,
01:31they've all been cut till today, where barbed wires and Indian military are on those particular areas.
01:39I've just come from visiting some of them.
01:41So the Prime Minister's visit, Rajdeep, for me as an analyst,
01:45we are just two years down the Manipur elections.
01:49This is, for me, as a scholar,
01:51it is a stunt for politics,
01:55because two years down the line,
01:57the 8,500 crore deposit,
01:59or the investment that is announcing,
02:02Manipur today, if you come to Manipur,
02:04the roads are full of potholes.
02:07There is no development in the way it should be.
02:09Of course, there are trains coming and all of that,
02:12but genuine development has not happened.
02:14Families are still hurting.
02:16There are 70,000 families who have lost,
02:18you know, they're all, everything.
02:19There are still, many of them still living in pathetic conditions.
02:25You know, we'll try and go back to Bina Lakshmi in a moment,
02:35but Thongolal Haukip,
02:38do you believe that the real challenge is to provide justice?
02:42There are thousands of people who still live in relief camps.
02:45There are people still fearful, cookies,
02:48fearful to go back to their work that they had in Imphal and vice versa.
02:52Metes who cannot go into Churachandpur.
02:54How do you bridge the trust divide?
02:57Is delivery of justice the real challenge?
03:02Rajdeep, you know, you rightly pointed it out.
03:06Even before the ground for visit of Prime Minister Modi is prepared,
03:12I think justice must be, you know,
03:17justice must prevail.
03:18Look into the demands of various cookie dough groups.
03:21They are still crying for justice of the murder of David Cake,
03:27the burden of a baby,
03:29Ton Singh and many others.
03:32And if you look into the cases that are handled by NIA,
03:36there's no future insight regarding these cases,
03:40particularly by the Kukizo communities.
03:42On the other hand,
03:43you find that various excesses committed by the Kukizo side,
03:48they have been, you know, delivered justice.
03:51They are under trial in the NIA.
03:53So this is the kind of disparity in terms of justice.
03:56And before he could visit,
03:58he, this kind of...
03:59Are you saying,
04:00are you telling me,
04:01Mr. Haukip,
04:02that Kukiz have...
04:03No, no, one minute.
04:04Are you telling me Kukiz have not got justice
04:06and Metes have got justice?
04:08Because I've heard Metes telling me just the opposite.
04:10They claim that they are not also getting justice
04:13and the Kukiz groups have been blocking the highways,
04:15blocking the roads,
04:17while the Metes claim that they are not getting justice either.
04:21No, Rajdeep,
04:22the Kukizho groups never blocked the highway.
04:25Even at the peak of the conflict,
04:28there were just a few instances of one or two days block it
04:31and then the highways were released
04:34of any other, you know, transportation.
04:39So there's no case of the highway being blocked.
04:42Since it is a conflict situation,
04:44you know,
04:45for a full, you know,
04:47free transportation in terms of civilians and other,
04:50it will take time.
04:52But in terms of essential commodities,
04:54in terms of any other,
04:56you know,
04:56the Kukizho groups never blocked this national highways.
04:59So, you know,
05:02and if you look into the problem...
05:05But that's not entirely true.
05:07No, no, Mr. Haukip,
05:08that's not entirely true.
05:09Who blocked...
05:09No, no, you see,
05:11I don't want to get into a blame game,
05:12but the fact of the matter is,
05:14if I'm a Metes
05:15who was living in Chura Chantpur
05:17and pushed out
05:17and had to go back to Imphal,
05:19I've struggled to go back to Chura Chantpur
05:21and vice versa,
05:23which is where I come.
05:24There is the delivery of justice
05:25and there is a need to restore trust deficit.
05:27Lieutenant General Kanzam Himalai Singh,
05:30how are you going to bridge this trust deficit?
05:33The truth of the matter is
05:34that the Prime Minister is visiting Manipur,
05:38good,
05:39but what about the fact
05:40that for the last two and a half years,
05:42there has been a political vacuum of sorts.
05:45The Berenj Singh government was accused
05:47of being openly partisan
05:48in favor of the Metes.
05:50Groups like Arambal, Tengal
05:52were allowed...
05:53Militias of the Mete groups
05:55were allowed to virtually run amok
05:57during May, June last year of 2023.
06:00Who is going to deliver justice?
06:03Is a Prime Ministerial visit
06:04going to deliver justice?
06:06Simply inaugurating 8,500 crores
06:09worth of projects
06:10is not delivering justice,
06:12surely, General.
06:15Rajdeep, thank you very much.
06:16At the outset, I must tell you
06:19that, Rajdeep,
06:21delivering justice
06:22is a perceptional issue.
06:27What happens is
06:27there are more than 20,000 FIRs there.
06:31More than...
06:31I think it is a little more than 20,000 FIRs
06:35as far as this crisis...
06:38That's right.
06:38More than 20,000.
06:40Yeah.
06:40So, see,
06:42one can't say
06:44that, you know,
06:45so-and-so is victim,
06:47so-and-so is victim.
06:48We have to look at it
06:49from a national interest point of view
06:51and interest of the people at large.
06:55Justice will come.
06:56Let me assure you
06:57the long arm of justice
06:59will come someday.
07:01It is just a question of time.
07:04So I think both sides
07:05need not unduly get worried
07:08about who is getting justice now
07:10and who is not getting justice now.
07:12As far as the Prime Minister's visit is concerned,
07:15I think...
07:16No, sir, but with due regard,
07:17again, General,
07:18what about groups...
07:19Sir, with due regard,
07:20you're saying justice will come,
07:22but groups like Arambal, Tengal
07:24had state patronage
07:25and they are the ones
07:27who are being held responsible
07:28for the violence
07:29that took place in Himfal.
07:30Now, who's going to act against them?
07:32They still get away.
07:33Nobody has cracked down on them.
07:37Rajdeep?
07:37It is not just about
07:39the armed militia groups,
07:41but Manipur is home to 60 armed...
07:43Just a minute.
07:44Just a minute, Bina Lakshmi.
07:45Please let the General complete.
07:47Please let the General complete.
07:49Please let the General complete.
07:50Yeah, go ahead, General.
07:52So, you know,
07:53Bina Lakshmi,
07:55I think she just opened the account
07:56by saying
07:57there are more than 50 armed groups.
08:03Most of them are banned.
08:05Many of them are under
08:07some kind of an agreement.
08:09Some of them are still existing.
08:11So, actually,
08:13one can't really blame
08:15one alone.
08:17It is the entire
08:18illegally, you know,
08:21established armed gangs
08:22all over.
08:24I'm not saying any one community.
08:26All the communities
08:27have armed gangs
08:29which are fighting against,
08:31if not against
08:33the Indian state,
08:35against the Constitution,
08:36against Manipur.
08:38So, therefore,
08:38I think we have to take it,
08:41you mentioned about
08:42Arambai Tenggol.
08:44And,
08:45in fact,
08:46I saw in the social media,
08:48they were the first one
08:49to welcome
08:50Prime Minister
08:51to Manipur
08:51as far as the visit
08:53is concerned.
08:53So, actually,
08:55in a situation
08:56where
08:56there has been
08:58so much of mistrust,
08:59so much of violence,
09:01actually,
09:01it's very difficult
09:02actually to say
09:03that, you know,
09:04so and so,
09:05only one group
09:06has been,
09:06you know,
09:07to be targeted.
09:08I think
09:08all the groups
09:10need some...
09:11Sir, I take it.
09:11But who is...
09:12Okay, I take that point, sir.
09:15I take that point.
09:16But who is going
09:17to disarm
09:17these armed groups
09:19with Bina Lakshmi Nipuram?
09:20You see,
09:21there are so many arms
09:23that have been flowing in
09:23and there's a belief
09:24that some have come
09:25across the border
09:26from Myanmar.
09:27There are these armed groups,
09:29some in the Kuki area,
09:31some in the Mete areas.
09:33Who's going to disarm them?
09:34Isn't that
09:35the big challenge first?
09:37Yes, absolutely.
09:38This is why
09:39I think
09:39the disarmament process
09:40is a must
09:41and there is where
09:43the government of India
09:44is actually failing
09:46in its duty
09:46and I hope
09:47New Delhi is listening
09:48to this program
09:49that government of India
09:50is failing in its duty
09:51to take arms
09:53out of civilian hands
09:54in both hills
09:55and the valley.
09:56Until this is done,
09:57Rajdeep,
09:58then our lives,
09:59both in the hills
10:00and the valley of Manipur,
10:01will be controlled
10:02by men with guns
10:03who are close to guns,
10:05drugs and political power.
10:06So I think
10:07unless this criminality
10:09of our democracy,
10:11criminality of our lives
10:12are done away with,
10:13Manipur will never,
10:15ever have peace.
10:16Right now,
10:17the prime minister's visit
10:18as I said
10:19is coming at a time
10:21when mothers
10:22are still waiting
10:23for more than
10:24many missing children
10:25who have not
10:2633 missing
10:27till today
10:28and many others
10:29who are still living
10:30in relief camps.
10:31The prime minister
10:32of India
10:32failed indeed
10:33if today
10:34Manipuri people
10:35both in the hills
10:36of Barry
10:37do a report card
10:38of the prime minister,
10:39he's supposed
10:39to be a constitutional head.
10:41He's supposed
10:42to safeguard
10:42the phenomenal rights,
10:44freedom of life,
10:45freedom of speech.
10:46He's supposed
10:46to safeguard
10:47national security.
10:48He has failed,
10:50Mr. Prime Minister,
10:51you have failed
10:52on all these counts.
10:53You may have
10:54executive and administrative
10:55things done
10:57in terms of getting
10:58food to the relief camps,
11:00but the prime minister
11:01and his cabinet
11:02have failed.
11:03As a result,
11:04Manipuri people
11:05give the report card
11:06that you have only
11:07got 50%,
11:0850% done.
11:10He's coming.
11:11It's not because
11:12he wants to hug us.
11:13He wants to...
11:14But you know,
11:14let's be fair.
11:15Those have been lost.
11:17But he's coming
11:18because elections
11:19is in two years.
11:21So please stop
11:21playing with our lives,
11:23our democracy.
11:25Let's be fair.
11:26Bina Lakshmi,
11:27one minute.
11:28Bina Lakshmi,
11:29ma'am,
11:29be fair.
11:30When the prime minister
11:31didn't come for
11:31two and a half years,
11:33it was said,
11:33where is the prime minister?
11:34Now he's coming
11:35and it said,
11:36it's coming with an eye
11:37on the election.
11:37But Mr. Haukip,
11:38what do you want
11:39to hear from the prime minister?
11:41What do you want to hear?
11:42What do the cookie groups?
11:43Yesterday night,
11:45some cookie protesters
11:46tried to pull away
11:47posters of the prime minister.
11:49They tried to keep
11:50coffins near the state
11:51where he's going to
11:51give a speech.
11:53What do cookies
11:53want to hear?
11:54What is the message
11:55from the prime minister
11:56you want to hear?
12:00Rajdeep,
12:01New Delhi's policy
12:02to the North
12:02always has been
12:04two-pronged.
12:05One is political
12:06and the other is
12:07economic.
12:09This time,
12:10when the prime minister
12:12wants to visit Manipur,
12:15he has only adopted
12:16an economic approach
12:17that is announcing
12:20and inaugurating
12:21some developmental projects.
12:23And he neglected
12:24the political one,
12:25the political solution
12:27of the present crisis.
12:30And if you look
12:30into these developmental
12:31placages also,
12:32out of the 21 projects,
12:34you would find
12:35that 11 of the projects
12:36are mainly
12:38concentrated
12:39through the Imphal Valley
12:40and some of them
12:41in the Naga areas
12:42and one or two
12:43only in the
12:44Srinivasanpur district
12:45and other Kukizo areas.
12:48And even if
12:48you look into
12:49infrastructure creation
12:50in some districts,
12:52it is only in
12:53Kakhching and Kamzong,
12:54not a single district
12:56in the newly created
12:57district of
12:57Behil areas,
12:59particularly the
13:00Kukizo areas.
13:01So, if you look
13:02into this,
13:03why should the
13:03Prime Minister
13:04visit Srinivasanpur
13:05to inaugurate
13:06just two
13:07developmental projects
13:08in the district?
13:09Why can't he go
13:10to Okrul
13:11where he is
13:12planning to release
13:13about hundreds
13:15of Krul's
13:16in this
13:16Naga areas?
13:19So,
13:19the Kukiz
13:20have this...
13:21So,
13:21Mr. Hawkim,
13:24what do you want
13:24to hear from him?
13:25Sir,
13:25it's one thing
13:26about what do you
13:27want the Prime Minister
13:28to say that
13:28will give you
13:29confidence?
13:30Very quickly,
13:30what do you want
13:31the Prime Minister
13:31to say?
13:34You know,
13:35if the
13:35government of
13:37India is
13:38reluctant to
13:38interfere into
13:39the territorial
13:40integrity of
13:41Manipur,
13:42let him look
13:43into the
13:44particular demands.
13:45If you look
13:46into the hill
13:46areas of the
13:47Northeast,
13:48you have some
13:48forms of
13:49political autonomy
13:50since independence.
13:52And
13:52Tripura has
13:54been added into
13:54this, you know,
13:55account in the
13:56early 80s.
13:57Manipur has
13:58been demanding
13:59this for the
13:59last 45 years
14:00and there has
14:02been no,
14:03you know,
14:03progress in
14:04this because
14:05Imphal Valley is
14:06opposing to
14:06these demands
14:07of political
14:08autonomy within
14:08the state.
14:09So,
14:10this is the
14:10main problem
14:11and he should
14:11come with
14:12some...
14:12So,
14:13you want
14:15the Prime
14:17Minister to
14:17announce some
14:18kind of
14:18political autonomy
14:19or some
14:20kind of
14:21council for
14:23the Kuki
14:24dominated areas.
14:25Unlikely to
14:26happen on this
14:27visit,
14:27but I
14:27want to
14:28give you
14:28General
14:28Consum
14:30Himalayan Singh
14:30a final word.
14:31What would
14:31you like to
14:32hear from
14:32the Prime
14:33Minister?
14:33What is it
14:34that would
14:34give you a
14:35sense that
14:35yes,
14:36things are
14:36on the
14:36right track?
14:37firstly,
14:40the visit of
14:41Prime Minister
14:42must be
14:42welcome.
14:43It is not
14:44everyday
14:44affair.
14:46Secondly,
14:47what I would
14:47like to hear
14:48about from
14:49the Prime
14:49Minister is
14:51Honorable
14:52Prime Minister
14:53must ensure
14:55that he
14:56addresses the
14:57national security
14:58perspective of
15:00what is happening
15:01in the
15:01Indo-Myanmar
15:02borders.
15:02And in
15:04addition to
15:04that,
15:06he must
15:06address,
15:07because it
15:07is not
15:08about just
15:09the ethnic
15:09crisis,
15:09it's about
15:10national security
15:11concern.
15:12That's what I
15:12would like him
15:13to understand
15:14and appreciate.
15:15And the
15:16second issue
15:16is that
15:17whatever is
15:18affecting the
15:18people of
15:19Manipur,
15:20the crisis
15:20has made
15:23Manipur,
15:24I mean,
15:25gone back
15:25by at least
15:2620,
15:2730 years.
15:27So I
15:28want him
15:29to address
15:31the political,
15:32economic and
15:33other social
15:34issues which
15:35are known
15:36to the
15:38people in
15:38Delhi.
15:40I want
15:41that the
15:42Prime Minister
15:42should take
15:43a decisive
15:44action to
15:45bring peace.
15:46This is what
15:46I would like
15:47to hear from
15:48him in this
15:49three hours
15:50visit to
15:51Manipur.
15:52Okay.
15:53He must
15:53give some
15:54kind of a
15:55you know,
15:56as I said,
15:57a flying
15:57visit from
15:58the Prime
16:04Minister may
16:05not be
16:05enough,
16:06but like it
16:07or not,
16:08it is a
16:08step forward.
16:09Yes,
16:09Veena Lakshmi,
16:10I'm giving
16:10you 30
16:10seconds and
16:11no more.
16:14Rasthib,
16:14the Prime
16:15Minister's
16:15visit is
16:16too little
16:16too late.
16:17He should
16:17have come
16:17before.
16:18He should
16:19have come
16:19before.
16:20He has
16:20the moral
16:20authority
16:21to be able,
16:22it is in
16:23his duty to
16:23do so and
16:24he failed to
16:25do so.
16:26So the
16:26people of
16:26Manipur,
16:27the national
16:28integrity of
16:30Manipur will
16:31remain
16:31sacrosanct.
16:33While it
16:33is important
16:34that the
16:34grievances of
16:36all the
16:3635 ethnic
16:38groups which
16:39are recognized
16:39by the
16:40government of
16:40Manipur,
16:41the grievances
16:41must be
16:42looked into.
16:43At the same
16:43time to know
16:44that we are
16:44not to be
16:45played around
16:46for their
16:47political game,
16:48that for more
16:48than 70
16:49years,
16:503.3 people
16:51Manipuris,
16:52we've been
16:52living under
16:53martial law,
16:54we've been
16:54living under
16:55militarization
16:55and weaponization
16:57of our lives
16:57and this
16:58must stop.
16:59Peace talks
17:00done only with
17:00men with guns
17:01must be
17:02stopped and
17:02ensure that
17:03people of
17:04all communities
17:05must be and
17:06together with
17:06the women
17:07groups,
17:07we're able to
17:08build a
17:09Manipur that
17:09is well-deserving
17:10for every
17:11ethnic group to
17:12live together
17:13in peace and
17:13harmony.
17:14I've run
17:16out of time.
17:17I've listened
17:17to all the
17:18voices,
17:19I've listened
17:19to all of
17:20you.
17:20It's not an
17:21easy challenge
17:22but it's a
17:22challenge that
17:23must be met.
17:24It's probably
17:24the government's
17:25biggest internal
17:26security challenge
17:27at the moment.
17:28I appreciate
17:29my guests
17:30joining me
17:30on that
17:31talking point.
17:32Unfortunately,
17:33most primetime
17:33channels will
17:34not tell you
17:35about Manipur
17:36and that's
17:36one of the
17:37many tragedies
17:38we can talk
17:38about that
17:39separately.
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