Art and musical Oasis: Michael Spencer Jones shares with us 'a view from within'

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00:00And we begin in California with Oasis playing the Pasadena Rose Bowl this weekend, a landmark

00:15moment for the reunion tour, filling one of the world's most iconic venues. Given the

00:20success of the band in Europe since the 90s, there was always talk about why they couldn't

00:24crack America. Noel said back in 2023 during a rift with his brother that it was because

00:28they didn't have a charismatic frontman. Friends again and sold out all over the world, it's

00:33a great time to introduce my next guest, legendary music photographer Michael Spencer-Jones, the

00:38man behind Oasis definitely maybe album cover, What's the Story Morning Glory, Be Here Now

00:43as well as The Verbe's Urban Hymns. Michael, it's fantastic to have you with us tonight

00:47and I should say from the off definitely maybe is considered as one of the most iconic album

00:54covers of all time. As I'm sure you know, one of the few that many people grew up with

00:59like me in the 90s can instantly conjure up iconic covers that NME call one of the ten

01:04best of all time. So, tell us the story of how it all came about.

01:10Yeah, well hello. Yeah, thanks for having me. How it all came about? Well, the original

01:16idea was Noel had seen the back cover to Oldies But Goldies by the Beatles and it was a photograph

01:25taken by Robert Whittaker I think in 1966 and it was the Beatles crowded around this small

01:31table in this hotel room in Japan. So, that was the initial basis for the cover. So, they

01:39were insisting on taking it at Bonehead's house, Paul Arthur's, in West Isbury in Manchester and

01:49so I went round for a recce and saw the table and the dining room where they wanted to do

01:54the shoot and I was a bit kind of dumbstruck. It's like, whoa, you know, it's not going to,

02:00that's not going to work there. So, I basically, in the other direction there was this living

02:06room, this Edwardian living room with a big bay window. So, I said, well, if we're going

02:10to have to do it at Bonehead's house, we're going to have to do it in the living room,

02:15you know, shooting towards the light, which is what we did. But it was a very tiny room.

02:23It appears quite big on the album cover but if you go there, and I went back with them,

02:30with Nolan and Liam, I think in about 2010, for the anniversary, for the 10th anniversary

02:36and everyone was aghast at how small the room was. It's tiny. It's a bit like, you know,

02:43when you go back to your old school and you see the chairs that used to sit on when you're

02:47about five or six and you think, no, no, no, they couldn't have been that small. It was

02:51like that. So, in order to get everyone in the room, this five-piece band, I had to put

02:57this wide-angle lens on the camera to get everyone in and then that created this instant

03:03problem of this mass of floorboards, which, you know, with all these lines. So, basically,

03:12I came up with the idea of getting Liam to lie on the floor just to break up all these

03:16distracting lines. So, and it kind of developed from there. On the day of the shoot, so I did

03:26a few test shots and then on the day of the shoot, I turned up and there was like a bit

03:32of a party going off. So, that was kind of through me, really. So, like, you know, it's

03:37like party season.

03:39It's the Gallagher Brothers.

03:40Like 11 o'clock. Yeah, 11 o'clock in the morning on a Tuesday. It's like, whoa, whoa,

03:46whoa, what's happening? And so, it was awkward because I had to ask all these people to leave,

03:51you know, and I didn't want them to sort of take all the energy with them. But anyway,

03:56one of the people that were in that, some of the strangers I've not met before, you know,

04:01friends of the band, a guy called Phil Smith, actually, one of the roadies, brought in this

04:06inflatable globe. So, I thought, yeah, that's interesting. And it sort of reminded me of

04:12Ian Brown at Spike Island when he held this inflatable globe when he was on stage.

04:18So, that was, that was a sort of catalyst, really. But it was at the back of the room

04:23and I'm about to take pictures and I'm thinking, you know, what is an inflatable globe doing

04:30in someone's living room like that? You know, so I was thinking, does a geography teacher live

04:36here or something? And so, that's when I came up with the idea of hanging it from the ceiling

04:39and spinning it. And it all kind of sort of developed from there. But initially, when I

04:46started the shoot, they'd obviously been drinking lager and, you know, not obviously, but they

04:54had been. And so, there was all these red stripe lager cans in the shot everywhere. They were

05:00on the mantelpiece, on the windowsill, on the floorboards. So, the first thing I did was

05:06say, look, guys, you know, we're going to have to get rid of the lager cans, you know.

05:10And they said, no, we want them in. So, it was a bit of a sort of standoff. So, the first

05:18few minutes of the shoot were very awkward. They wanted the lager cans in, I wanted the

05:23lager cans out. And so, I stopped the shoot, basically. And then I explained to them, look,

05:30guys, it looks like product placement. You know, it's a James Bond film. When James Bond

05:35looks at his watch, and then the giant letters, the word, you know, the watch manufacturer

05:40appears on the screen. I said, you know, it looks like product placement. And I said,

05:45look, if they can stay, you might as well call the album Red Stripe.

05:51At which point, at which point, they move them. And then they said, you know, we still,

05:59we want a reference to alcohol on the cover. So, it's like, well, okay, well, let's have

06:03some wine in the shop.

06:05Ah, so that's where the wine came from.

06:06And then we quickly discovered, yeah, yeah. I said, well, look, you know, wine glasses and

06:11wine bottles, they've got more shape than cans. And then we quickly discovered that there's

06:16no wine in the property. And I think we discussed about, you know, buying some. And I said, well,

06:21let's use Ribena. It photographs better than real red wine. Which is what we did. So, we

06:27got some Ribena out. And so, that glass of wine stationed next to Liam Gallagher's shoulder

06:35is not wine.

06:37It's Ribena.

06:38One thing that is amazing.

06:40How rock and roll is that?

06:44Amazing. Especially when, you know, we know how untrue to form that is. One thing that amazes

06:49me, everybody talks about, for so long, all of the little things in the image from Burt

06:54Baccarat, the TV and what's on. And this is a fascinating insight. I've heard about you,

06:59Michael, if this is true, that you were inspired, I read, by the old Flemish masters. It was

07:02true if, tell me, the Van Eyck Arnolfini painting of the 1400s. You took inspiration from

07:08that and that's where you worked it in?

07:12No, I think that's a little bit of a myth, to be honest.

07:15It's an urban legend.

07:15I think the, it's an urban legend.

07:19An urban hymn.

07:19Yes. I think the only sort of reference to sort of Flemish painting was the fact that,

07:29you know, Flemish painters, you know, they used to have, when they were doing their still

07:33life paintings, they used to have a table laden with fruit and on a table. And in order

07:40to break this sort of table edge, the sort of line of the table edge, they'd always have

07:44a bunch of grapes hanging off the edge of the table. So, so the problem with the floorboards,

07:51with all these lines, you know, what breaks up the lines in the floorboards. So, so that's,

07:56you know, where Liam came in handy, you know, lying on the floor. But I think it's a bit

08:00of an urban myth that the Van Eyck thing. Although it is an interior with a, with a mirror.

08:07So I think that's where the similarity ends.

08:11And you talked about the globe as well. I know that you mentioned Ian Brown at Spike

08:14Island. You also, I think I'm right in saying that you were inspired by David Bowie and David

08:18Bowie at one point with a globe and his use of a globe, he deflated it. And your idea was

08:23trying to get on the back cover and deflate a globe. But Liam Gallagher said, no, life's

08:26too beautiful.

08:28Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. Yeah. So I'm, I'm exploring ideas for the back cover and I'm thinking,

08:32wouldn't it be great if the globe was deflated? So you turned the cover over and you've got

08:40a world that's probably not in the best of shapes and it's making, you know, so I suggested

08:45that to, to, to the band. I said, you know, let's do some shots with the globe deflated.

08:50And then Liam Gallagher just sprung to his feet and he just like, Spencer, the world is a beautiful

08:58place. That globe is going to remain fully inflated. So it was like, okay, I'll go with

09:05that.

09:05You give me one sentence to explain the man. And that's, and I think you've, you know,

09:08you've caught another side of Liam Gallagher.

09:11Yeah.

09:11And I know, I think part of it is your fascination for Egyptology because it's not often egos of

09:16rock stars.

09:17Yeah.

09:17You want to be face on, close to the screen. You wanted him lying down, kind of iconic that,

09:21that there would be more, more to him than that.

09:24Yeah. Yeah. Well, um, I just thought, you know, cause I was, I'm into surrealism, you

09:31know, Dali and Magritte and all those people. And, uh, so I wanted it to be a sort of surrealist

09:38cover, um, but not overtly surrealist, but, um, so the idea of having Liam lying on the floor

09:46creates a sort of surrealist component to it. And, um, but I wanted him with his eyes closed,

09:53and, um, you know, so he's just kind of in this altered state, you know, not of this

09:59world, you know, almost, you know, kind of lying in state where, uh, there's all this

10:04stuff happening around him and he's the sort of main, um, you know, where the sort of energy

10:11is coming from kind of thing. So it was quite subtle. Um, but when I came up with the idea

10:17of him lying on the floor, um, you know, obviously it was, it's a big ask for any, you know, to

10:24ask the lead singer of a band to lie on the floor for their debut album cover. And so I

10:29was super nervous about asking him. Um, and I knew if he said no, then I was in a lot of

10:36trouble because plan A was him lying on the floor and plan B was Liam also, you know, was

10:44in line on the floor as well. So there was no, there was no plan B. So, um, so I'm very

10:50grateful that he kind of was up for it.

10:53And, um, and he was okay with it. Yeah. Which is, you know, and the great thing about

10:59working with Oasis, they're always open to ideas and stuff like that. So, um, yeah, he,

11:05um, he said, yeah, I'll do it. So, uh, if he had, if he'd have said no, then I don't

11:09know what I'd have done. And we're seeing, it wouldn't have been the cover that it is

11:12because. No, it wouldn't. And I think it's, so I mentioned to anyone, whether it's in the

11:18office or, uh, outside in the street, people know it straight away. And it's also worth

11:23saying that you've done some brilliant albums as well, covers for Oasis, including, um,

11:28including Be Here Now, we just saw as well. And What's the Story, Morning Glory. We saw

11:32the big Rolls Royce in this room called The Verve as well, Urban Hymns. So you're known

11:37for that. You have legendary status in the industry. Tell me about your, your life now.

11:41You know, what, what, what did you decide to, to do? What are you working on? Do you still

11:45keep in touch with Oasis?

11:48Yeah, well, I've been, um, well, I did, I did the 30th anniversary, uh, cover.

11:53Which is, um, there definitely may be cover, but there's no one in the room. Um, so, so

11:59that was, um, that had been photoshopped, actually, just, so I had to take all the band out. So

12:05that, they use that for the 30th anniversary. And I've, um, yeah, I've just shot a campaign

12:09for Levi's. Um, Oasis teamed up with Levi's. So I just shot their global campaign. But, um,

12:17I'm getting more into publishing. So I've, I've just done a book called, um, definitely

12:22maybe a view from within. And, um, this publisher approached me to do a book on Oasis. And most,

12:29um, all my archive is, is on negatives. So there's only about 10% of it that's been digitised.

12:37So, um, I was digitising the whole archive. And then I, so I was starting at the beginning

12:43and I got through 1994 and suddenly realised that, hang about, you know, I've got enough

12:48for a book in this first year. It's a really interesting year, 1994, you know, when it all

12:53sort of takes off. So I decided to focus on that one year. And, um, which is the book

13:00definitely maybe a view from within. And, um, it just takes you from the recording of the

13:06album. Um, and it just, and then they sort of pre-fame period and then, um, goes on to

13:15cigarettes and alcohol, that shoot, and then creating the cover and then the launch. And

13:21then, um, there's a chapter called Halcyon Days. And, um, and then it goes, uh, to, you

13:27know, when we returned sort of 10 years later for the anniversary. So it's a nice sort of story

13:33of, you know, if you want to immerse yourself onto the, into that first year, um, it's a good book

13:39to get.

13:40Michael, it's been brilliant chatting to you.

13:42This is it.

13:43Oh, it's brilliant. We've got it there. So this is, um, Michael Spencer Jones's, his work, uh, with

13:49definitely maybe, as you say, the inside. And there's some incredible images in there that we

13:52haven't seen that haven't been made public. Uh, real, uh, pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much.

13:58Legendary music photographer, Michael Spencer Jones.

14:00Thank you so much. Yeah. It's a pleasure. Yeah. Thanks very much.

14:03Speak to you soon. All the best.

14:04Cheers.

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