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00:30Some type of f***ing razor, taser, staple gun.
00:34In a world where the lines of fiction and reality are blurred, no one pushed the boundaries
00:39further than Jerome Young, a.k.a. New Jack.
00:44I'm not selling out for y'all.
00:45If you don't like me, the hell with all of you.
00:49The line in wrestling between cooperation and physical assault is blurred.
00:54You can only go so far without your opponent knowing that it's coming.
01:00But how far is too far?
01:02F*** you, man.
01:03You know what you did.
01:05Period.
01:05And what happens when a wrestler lost in his character is set loose in a world that rewards
01:13extreme violence.
01:15You want to talk that big boy s*** to me?
01:18I would dare you to come to my face and say that s***.
01:23I would dare you.
01:24I eat your ass alive.
01:26I dare you.
01:27Far beyond the world of elbow drops and headlocks lies the underground realm of extreme hardcore
01:42wrestling, where fans' appetite for real-life brutality is endless.
01:47When audiences thought they'd seen it all, New Jack took it to a whole new level.
01:53Many of his performances bordered on criminal, and some crossed that line.
01:58In this episode, we'll pull back the curtain of wrestling's most provocative and controversial
02:03characters to reveal the man behind the monster and the legacy he has left in his wake.
02:09Okay, so for someone who's totally not familiar, who is New Jack?
02:16I could not sit here and swear in open court that anything that New Jack ever told me about
02:20his background was true or false.
02:22I've heard he was a bounty hunter.
02:24I've heard he had a number of justifiable homicides to his credit.
02:28The way he talks, the way he walks, the way he carries himself, this brother is real.
02:33Just imagine a badass, big African-American dude slinging drugs on one of the hardest streets
02:39in, like, Harlem, you know what I'm saying?
02:41If you f*** with him, he will kill you.
02:44Maybe not kill you, kill you, but he will f*** you up.
02:46He's that tough f***, dude.
02:48I went to a movie called New Jack City, just getting into wrestling there, and when I
02:54heard the name New Jack, I started playing with it in my head, like hearing fans chant
02:59New Jack, New Jack, New Jack, New Jack.
03:03How did you come into wrestling?
03:04Like, who taught you the ropes?
03:06Ray Candy.
03:08I got in the ring with him, and he was like, trust me, let me train you.
03:12And then he told me something one day that f***ed my head up so bad.
03:15He said, you got to create something that you've never seen before.
03:21I said, what kind of mind f*** is that?
03:24You want to create a character?
03:26Create something you've never seen before.
03:29When I saw Jack come out, he just instantly picked up the energy in the room, and people
03:34reacted to it.
03:36I'm Jim Cornette, and in the mid-90s, I ran a wrestling promotion in East Tennessee called
03:41Smoky Mountain Wrestling.
03:42Smoky Mountain Wrestling was looking to break into the Atlanta market, and we needed a heel.
03:47When I saw New Jack, he could project that aura of menace.
03:52See, it was like, just straight up f***ed from the goddamn hood.
03:57And he had an intensity on his face.
03:59And then he gets the microphone, and he starts talking to the people, and this guy is talking
04:03a mile a minute, and he's getting people riled up.
04:05I don't feel nothing about these heel villains not liking me.
04:10Get in this ring, and I'll beat you like I own you.
04:13If Eddie Murphy was a bad guy wrestler instead of a comedian, it would be New Jack.
04:17He could talk nonstop, and he could say these things in an entertaining way, but he would
04:22make you hate him.
04:23Beyond his natural charisma, New Jack infuses his character with a piercing level of real-world
04:30tension.
04:31L.A. was hot at the time because of the Rodney King thing going on.
04:35O.J. had just killed everybody in L.A.
04:37South Central L.A. was on the map.
04:39And the whole gimmick, the Raider gear, the gold chain, I took all of that and put it in
04:44my character.
04:45The Smoky Mountain Wrestling audience was predominantly white, predominantly redneck
04:49and hillbilly.
04:50All you had to say was, New Jack, go out, piss some white people off, and the rest was up
04:56to him.
04:57And it was gold.
04:58It was genius.
04:59I'd like to send a special shout-out to my homeboy, O.J. Simpson.
05:04Keep up the good work, baby.
05:06Two less we got to worry about.
05:08You understand?
05:09Keep up the good work.
05:10I was like, I want these to believe what I'm doing.
05:14I want them to believe what I'm saying is f***ing real.
05:18To enhance New Jack's cutting-edge character, he is paired with the perfect enforcer, another
05:23Smoky Mountain recruit named Mustafa Saeed.
05:27He didn't say much, but he looked like he would kill somebody.
05:31And I said, a guy that can talk like this New Jack.
05:34I'm here, and I'm gonna be here until I feel like I wanna leave.
05:39And a guy that looks like Mustafa would be a great tag team.
05:43So he said, what's your tag team name?
05:45I said, well, actually, we don't have a name.
05:48See, and he said, what about the gangsters?
05:50I said, what about the gangsters?
05:52With an A-S on the end.
05:54Just picture a hard-ass freaking movie in the hood somewhere, dude, and they're the baddest
05:59ass dudes in the hood.
06:00I'm the Sandman.
06:02I've been a professional wrestler since 1989.
06:05I'm the dude.
06:06I'm gonna play you in a game of pole.
06:08And then when I lose, I'm gonna hit you over the head with a stank and drink your beer anyway.
06:12That's me in a nutshell.
06:13Yo, the gangsters, we had a lot of heat down there in white neighborhoods.
06:18The gangsters were a group of young, angry black men telling every white person everything
06:27every other black person wanted to say but couldn't.
06:29You little Caucasian white devil, I told you that I would get you.
06:34The next time that I get to put my hands around that little pink neck of yours, I'm
06:39gonna choke the life out of you.
06:41My name is D-Lo Brown.
06:42I'm a 26-year pro.
06:44God, that sounds so old.
06:46My role in the gangsters was I was their head of security.
06:50In reality, I was the bump guy.
06:52You know, gangsters would lose no heat, but you could beat me and we can keep rolling.
06:56Down goes D-Lo Brown.
06:57Hey, wait a minute.
06:58Me and Jack would just stir people up so much.
07:01None of his stuff was written.
07:02And there are some times I stood there and I listened.
07:04I was like, you wish I was like, some more, some more, what a man, chicken bone sucking
07:12black folk.
07:14Check those promos out.
07:15When Mustafa's standing there next to him going, dude, that's what he was doing all day.
07:19And you know what I'm saying?
07:20Nothing but rednecks up here.
07:23That wasn't Mustafa being that for the interview.
07:25That was Mustafa.
07:26Mustafa's crazy, bro.
07:28The dude was rolling pencil shavings in one of those blunt things and he wanted me to
07:33smoke it with him.
07:34I'm like, no, dude, I'm good.
07:35Was Mustafa smoking pencil shavings?
07:37He had pencil shavings.
07:46He had some shit he had found growing on the side of the building on the bag.
07:50I said, if you smoke this shit, it's going to come back and haunt you one day.
07:54He was like, no, man, this is some good shit, man.
07:56I'm fucked up right now.
07:57You're a trap.
07:58So we're sitting in the hotel.
07:59I hear the knocking at the door.
08:00So I said, Jack, Mustafa downstairs fighting the cops.
08:04So we dropped everything.
08:05They had him handcuffed face down.
08:07He blowing snot on the floor.
08:09And this is what Mustafa was saying.
08:12You're going to fuck me, don't you?
08:13I know you're going to fuck me.
08:14The gangsters had embraced the idea that I'm going to go out there and I'm going to be
08:29a menace to society.
08:30One night we did a show.
08:32I had been to the dentist and my mouth was sore to a point where I couldn't hardly talk.
08:36So I said, Mustafa, let's go to Walmart.
08:38And I bought a white baby dog.
08:40And I had a rope tied like a noose.
08:42And I walked out to the ring.
08:43I got in the middle of the ring and held a baby dog up.
08:46And it was like, get the out of here with that shit.
08:49New Jack had everyone so mad at the gangsters.
08:52Hit Lurker to walk out through the curtain and he'd have been a baby face.
08:55I pissed people the off.
08:57And we got so much heat to the point where these like we're going to kill them niggas.
09:02They didn't say niggas.
09:04We're going to kill them niggas.
09:06Unleashing their unfiltered vision of the times, the gangsters are quickly becoming the
09:10hottest villains in the territory.
09:12I wanted to get the gangsters right into the tag team title picture.
09:15So they have to attack the champions, the Rock and Roll Express.
09:21Now this is Ricky and Robert, the Rock and Roll Express.
09:23I mean, these been around forever and they done been there and done it.
09:27Taking controversy to a new level, they decide to recreate the 1992 police beating of Rodney
09:33King.
09:34But in their version, the roles are reversed.
09:37Ricky Morton is knocked to the floor.
09:39All of a sudden, the gangsters and their posse, there's like three or four of them.
09:43Jack brought everybody he knew for this one.
09:44And they circled Ricky Morton in the middle of the ring and he's bleeding and he's looking
09:48at the fans in the front row, help me.
09:50And they beat the bejesus out of him with these nightsticks.
09:54So we got done.
09:56All the white people that went out in the back and they was waiting on us to come out the
09:58door.
09:59And they had bricks in their hands and sticks.
10:02So we got behind the cops.
10:03They turned the lights on and escorted us out of the town.
10:07When I saw that, I knew we were doing our job.
10:10The NAACP in Knoxville had called and we don't think this is a good representation.
10:15So Jack took that and he said, some Negroes down in Knoxville calling themselves the NAACP
10:23or something or another.
10:24They don't like me.
10:25I say it once and I say it again.
10:27To hell with them homegrown monkeys.
10:30Oh, right.
10:32So from that point on, we started putting up a disclaimer.
10:35The views of the gangstas are not necessarily those of Smoky Mountain Wrestling or this station.
10:40You thought maybe we was cotton pickers?
10:44Wrong.
10:44Maybe you thought you had some homegrown Negroes?
10:48Wrong.
10:50Would you say that that period in Smoky Mountain, like, is that fun?
10:53No.
10:54To have somebody calling you a nigger, I ain't got damn used to that shit.
11:03I said, I can't get used to it and I ain't gonna try to get used to it.
11:05The gangsters were literally a microcosm of what was going on in society at that time.
11:09And you drop us in the middle of the South, the N-word was freely thrown around like you would say hello.
11:16It was uncomfortable.
11:17But if they didn't say that, then we weren't touching that nerve.
11:21It's a pretty strange concept, yes.
11:24I want someone to hurl racial slurs at me.
11:27I had this little boy come at me one day.
11:30He said, can I shake your hand?
11:31I stuck my hand out.
11:32And he rubbed my arm and looked at his hand.
11:35I said, why'd you rub my arm and then look at your hand?
11:38He said, I'm sorry.
11:38My dad told me, you rub a black person on the arm, it'll rub off on you and you'll turn back.
11:45And I was just like, you little shit.
11:48As their provocative routine runs its course, the gangsters jump at a sudden offer from a larger wrestling outfit, ECW.
11:56ECW was extreme championship wrestling.
11:59It was the brainchild of Paul Heyman that it would be the 1990s wrestling answer to the grunge music movement.
12:05It would be gritty and violent and they'd blur a lot of lines.
12:10They were edgier, whether it be sexual content or violence or blood or what have you.
12:15The stuff that you would see in one arena show was like, it was a whole hardcore night.
12:20I had been talking to Paul Heyman at ECW.
12:22I had never heard of ECW.
12:24They invited me to come up there and I told Cornette.
12:28I said, Paul Heyman offered me a deal.
12:30He offered me a lot of goddamn money.
12:32And he was pissed about it.
12:33I hated that they left on bad terms with me and me with them, but they couldn't have gone any farther than Smoky Mountain Wrestling.
12:40Everything about ECW was not only more violent, but also it was more real to the point where the guys started the trend of really hitting each other with stuff and hurting each other.
12:50ECW was filled with wrestlers that would go too far already and knew Jack had to be the guy that went farther than anybody.
12:57I'm like, welcome home, you know what I'm saying?
12:59In June 1995, the gangstas leave the hostile crowds of Smoky Mountain and join the eclectic crew of Philadelphia's wildly popular ECW.
13:16I told you, boy, we whooped their ass again!
13:20When we got to ECW, we fit right in.
13:23New Jack is on a mission here tonight in Atlanta!
13:27And it was just like, ****, we love this shit.
13:31You gotta understand, dude, we're clicking hard and we know that we're like the hottest thing like on the planet by like 96, 97.
13:37I was sent to meet New Jack at the hotel when he first came up from Smoky Mountain, so I was the first ECW guy I met.
13:45He got out of the car and I'm like, alright, I liked him, he had swagger, he was like, don't **** with me, which was cool by me, you know what I mean?
13:52I'm like, oh, this guy's gonna fit right in.
13:54Our locker room was one big family.
13:56It's Tommy Dreamers, RVD, Taz, Saboosh, you know, New Jack.
14:02Heading up this locker room of misfits is promoter, Paul Heyman.
14:07Paul Heyman was the mad scientist.
14:09Dude, he was everything.
14:10He was the writer.
14:11He was ****ing the Steven Spielberg of all of it, you know what I mean?
14:15That dude is like super brilliant.
14:18All our careers were jumping, you know what I'm saying?
14:20I think New Jack got in that environment and he always had to be the most extreme guy in any situation, but there were no limits up there.
14:28I come out with the weapons.
14:32Diving on ****, fighting out in the audience, going through chairs and tables and knocking down chairs and ****, it was like blood and guts every goddamn night.
14:42I truly feel that the reason why Jack was so violent, so extreme, because of the way he grew up.
14:48His childhood, his upbringing, I think that plays a part in who he is.
14:51I mean, it has to.
14:54My childhood was ****.
14:56I had a daddy that was an alcoholic.
14:59He hated my mom.
15:01One night, she came home from work.
15:03When she walked in the door, he pulled out a knife and he stabbed her five times.
15:08He stabbed her.
15:09A few months later, she was like, I'm leaving.
15:21She picked me up, tried to put me in the car.
15:24He shot her in the back of the leg.
15:28This is what I grew up around.
15:29And I'm like, you wonder why sometimes I flip the **** out?
15:38New Jack's outlet for violence has taken him to new heights in ECW.
15:42But on November 23rd, 1996, a chance encounter with a novice wrestler is about to send shockwaves through the entire wrestling world.
15:51Can you tell me a story of the mass transit incident?
15:57I didn't know what was coming.
15:59He was 17.
16:00He told me he was 21.
16:01And he had a little person with him.
16:04Listen, New Jack, I'm not going to lie, he was intimidating.
16:07That's because he was always presenting the image that he was sinister.
16:12My name is Tiny the Terrible.
16:15I was just basically one of those midget wrestlers that wanted to be considered not really as a midget wrestler.
16:23Just as a wrestler that was just sure.
16:25So tell us who we're watching here.
16:27Jerry Springer, Quinn Terrace.
16:30Over 52 million people viewed this episode.
16:33Jerry's the one that gave me the first opportunity to really speak on a nation level like that.
16:39Did people recognize you after?
16:41Oh, yeah.
16:41What was that like?
16:42Great, man, you know, that's how I got most of the pussy I got.
16:46I'm used to having good looking women.
16:48That's true.
16:49I'm not going to send you a...
16:52Look, ego too.
16:53I've been on TV, you know.
16:56New Jack was like, if you went out of a script, he would make you pay for it.
17:01If you're going to cut somebody all the up on their first match, that don't make no sense.
17:07And, you know, and that's basically what happened with an Eric Kulass type situation.
17:14Teenage wrestler Eric Kulass calls himself Mass Transit.
17:19Dressed in a bus driver gimmick, his matches with Tiny and his brother attract the attention of ECW.
17:25He's seen the tape of Eric Kulass and my brother wrestling.
17:32Paul Heyman couldn't believe that a big guy could work with midgets because that's like unheard of.
17:38The three are asked to appear at an upcoming match in Revere, Massachusetts.
17:43The best wrestling is not being able to discern the line between fiction and reality.
17:50That was one of the big appeals of ECW.
17:53I'm Stu Kaplan.
17:54I'm John Donovan.
17:55And we were doing security for the show.
17:57I was upstairs.
17:58I had a walkie-talkie and someone came on the talkie and said, there are some guys here for the show.
18:03I saw Eric Kulass come in.
18:05I didn't know who he was.
18:06I had no idea who he was.
18:08And I knew everybody.
18:09And they went into the back of the locker room.
18:12And that was literally the last time I saw Eric until he came out for the match.
18:17No one knows that Eric has lied about his age, claiming to be 21.
18:21In reality, he's a 17-year-old minor.
18:25Axl Rotten didn't show up for the show.
18:27He had a family emergency.
18:29So Paul, he was like, he gets a tryout.
18:33They decided to cut us out.
18:35Eric, like, just f***ing just cut us off and just went for self.
18:39This untrained teenager, who claimed to be a professional wrestler and had probably wrestled a few local shows, shows up.
18:47They needed somebody for New Jack to beat up.
18:50So they said, okay.
18:51That was their first mistake.
18:52So Paulie was like, Jack, y'all go for like seven minutes.
18:57Whatever you want to do to the fat kid, just do it.
18:59I said, Paulie, what I'm going to do to him, people are going to be talking about this 10 years from now.
19:06Boy, it's been 20 years and we're still talking about it.
19:09By the end of 1996, New Jack has taken his controversial career to dangerous new heights in the violent world of ECW.
19:24Now, a last-minute change has landed him in the ring with novice wrestler Eric Koulos.
19:31You know, we're on the grounds now of the Wonderland Dog Track where the ECW famous gangster Eric Koulos incident happened.
19:39And we got here early.
19:40We got here probably two or three hours before the show.
19:42But there were still people here.
19:43And, you know, ECW, ECW.
19:46And, I mean, I can feel it.
19:46I'm getting goosebumps now because that's what you got.
19:48So, the untrained teenager that's maybe had three local matches in his life is now going to wrestle New Jack.
19:55I saw Eric coming out and I'm like, wow, that was the guy that with his father, when he came, he must have gotten on the show.
20:02Eric Koulos is paired up with Devon Dudley, replacing Axl Rotten in their tag team match with the Gangsters.
20:09Mass Transit, this big teenager, went up to New Jack and told him he wanted to get some offense in.
20:15He came up to me and he was like, can I do this?
20:17Backdrop you out of the ring, put you through a table.
20:20And I said, no.
20:23That's one of the most disrespectful things that you could do as a wrestler.
20:28To come to a vet and tell him what you want to do.
20:34So, that's what pissed Jack off.
20:37All right, now it all makes sense.
20:40Why Jack was like, I'm going to cut this.
20:42He wanted me to cut it.
20:44He had already pissed me off at the time.
20:46So, I was like, I'm good with it.
20:47I'm cutting the shit out of you.
20:49I ain't trying to kill him, but I want him to go close to death.
20:51Not only did the kid want to get some offense in, but he wanted to have a great match, so
20:57he wanted to bleed.
20:59There are a number of ways to do it.
21:01There's the hard way, which is basically when you agree with your opponent that he's going
21:05to punch you in the eyebrow or the cheek or in some place to bust you open.
21:09There's also the easy way.
21:11You take a common razor blade, something you find around the house, and you trim it in a fashion
21:17that you can wrap it in some tape, and then you can keep it on your wrist, in your mouth,
21:22in the waistband of your tights.
21:23In wrestling, it was a common gimmick.
21:25The blade was never intended to be an X-Acto knife.
21:30I had been getting high all day.
21:33I mean, so I was high as f***ing.
21:38So, we told D-Von, we said, we're going to throw you out of the ring and don't get back in.
21:43You know, D-Von didn't get touched, didn't get hit.
21:46Everything was mostly focused around Eric, and it was mostly Nujak giving it to Eric.
21:52I started beating on him.
21:56I was beating him with everything.
21:58So, when it came time for us to get color, I had a surgical scaffold.
22:04Get about that long.
22:05And I had it taped to a stick, so I stuck him in the forehead a couple of times, and it didn't happen.
22:13See, I just sliced him, and blood was keeping out.
22:18I'm sure you saw it.
22:19And I beat the sh** out of the kid.
22:23His father was there in the audience.
22:28Mustafa picked him up and slammed him.
22:31He was bleeding everywhere.
22:36The referee didn't need to come to the goddamn ring.
22:38I'm standing there.
22:40And I could see over my shoulder.
22:42They need paramedics.
22:43But Nujak was firing up the crowd.
22:45At that point, I'm like, okay, let's just get him out.
22:59I knew we were part of history.
23:01A defiant middle finger from Eric seems to suggest he's okay.
23:06But everyone at ringside can see that's not the case, especially his family.
23:12His father trying to get in the back, but I'm not going to let him get into the locker room or near Nujak.
23:17Did Eric's father say stuff to you?
23:19He was just calling me a nigger.
23:21He was like, you f***ing nigger, you stabbed my son, you goddamn nigger.
23:24You know?
23:24We was off camera then, and all this was off.
23:28I'd have killed it, old man.
23:30And I went backstage with him, but I was like, was it worth it?
23:33And he said, damn, man, they f***ing me up.
23:35I was the next match, so I bled like a stuck pig that night because I was trying to take a little bit of the heat off of Nujak.
23:43We got in an argument in the car.
23:45Eric's father was like, where you guys going?
23:47I said, oh, you're f***ing giving us a ride back.
23:49Oh, no, I ain't.
23:50I'm not giving you a ride back.
23:51I said, Steve, yes the f*** you are, or we're going to be fighting again up in this f***.
23:56And, you know, he got in the van, went to the hospital.
23:59I remember him taking his f***, the bandage off in the car, pulling his hair up, and just looking at it in the f***ing mirror.
24:07Eric received 50 stitches for his injuries, and says he never wants to get in the ring again.
24:14I have no feeling from here to here.
24:16I have like an indention in my head from where all the nerves died.
24:20It changed him.
24:21I was depressed and all that other s***, so.
24:24The underground world of hardcore wrestling is exposed to unprecedented national attention, as Nujak is charged with assault and battery.
24:35So he took me to trial, told my attorney.
24:37I said, are they offering me a deal?
24:39He said, right now they want you to do five years.
24:41I was like, I don't know.
24:44He said, Jack, I think I can beat this case.
24:46The brutalization of teenage wrestler Eric Kulas has created a media frenzy and exposed the shocking world of hardcore wrestling.
25:04Now, a court will decide if Nujak must answer for the assault with prison time.
25:11Did you do any of this?
25:12You don't want to give your son.
25:14Hold on, go to court.
25:14Now, understand something.
25:16It was a six-jury panel.
25:18One 80-year-old black guy and five white women.
25:23He was knowing out.
25:24I was like, that's my savior.
25:26I'm like, stay awake?
25:27F***, you my savior.
25:29You know?
25:30What was your sort of role in the trial?
25:33Explaining how Eric knew what he was doing.
25:36If he can wrestle with us, he can wrestle with a big guy.
25:41It's our view that he knew exactly what was going to happen.
25:43He was preparing to go into the ring.
25:45He knew about the props.
25:47Because, I mean, at that time, Kulas wasn't on my side.
25:50We weren't f***ing friends.
25:51The only person that really wanted me in this was Nujak.
25:55And I said, Jack, it's up to you.
25:57This is what I want.
25:58I want work in WWE.
26:01And New Jack promised me.
26:02If I get off tiny, I swear I will take care of you.
26:05They had Pauly on the stand.
26:08The DA asked him, what did Mr. Kulas call Jerome Young?
26:13Pauly was like, he called him the N-word.
26:16The DA said, for the record, say it.
26:20Pauly looked at me.
26:21He said, Jack, I'm sorry.
26:24He said, he called him a nigger.
26:27The old juror, the black dude, he sat up, he was like.
26:32And the white woman was like.
26:35I was laughing so hard.
26:37I sit down and I was like, oh, who the f*** do that?
26:41He was working the f***.
26:42I mean, he was working the s*** out of the goddamn, the judge, the DA, the f*** jurors.
26:46He did what he wanted to do best at work.
26:48And that's what he did.
26:49He was working.
26:50When the jury learns Eric lied about his age and experience, the balance shifts in New Jack's favor.
26:57They deliberated for that day.
27:00Came ready the next day.
27:01They found me not guilty.
27:03And I ended up working for WWE.
27:05I ended up doing promos and s*** with Shane, Big Show, and Triple H.
27:11Yeah, Stephanie McMahon's introducing me and my partner as the Twin Towers to go against The Rock.
27:17What was it like for you to walk out to the crowd like that?
27:18Oh, f***ing great, dude.
27:20There's me.
27:21There's my partner that can do the eyebrow.
27:24And this was fresh after Eric Kulas.
27:27So it was like New Jack.
27:29I don't know how, what the hell he did.
27:31But there was my spot right there.
27:33Do you remember how Eric Kulas passed?
27:35I didn't even know really until like years later.
27:41I forgot how it went.
27:44But people say, yo, you know, Eric died.
27:45After failing in criminal court, Eric's family tries to sue New Jack in a civil suit for damages caused by the incident.
27:53But in 2002, he dies from complications resulting from gastric bypass surgery.
27:58And then what was your reaction to learning that he passed away?
28:02I ain't f***ing.
28:04Well, my fault.
28:05I heard about it.
28:06I'm like, oh, well.
28:07I have to indict New Jack for this because he went too far.
28:12But also, the image of ECW allowed guys to go way too far and think that nothing would happen.
28:19The mass transit incident has set a dangerous precedent.
28:23And it's New Jack who has opened the door to a lawless new era.
28:27New Jack started trying to go farther and farther.
28:29Not only with the blood and the edginess of the content, but also the spectacular bumps and falls.
28:36I was the only one that probably started coke in the locker room.
28:39I mean, it was like a boost.
28:41You know what I mean?
28:42It was like, if I get high, I can go get high.
28:47And I was snowing every night.
28:49Once you've jumped off a 10-foot balcony, what's next?
28:55Jump off a 15-foot balcony.
28:57Then a 20-foot balcony.
29:02And at some point, there's no way that this can end well, even if you do it right.
29:07Yeah, you have any favorite dives?
29:09Well, the one that people always talk about.
29:12Me and Big Grimes.
29:14Imagine Humpty Dumpty with arms and legs as a professional wrestler.
29:18That's kind of how he was shaped, you know what I'm saying?
29:20You couldn't hurt the guy.
29:22Vic Grimes wanted to be run over with cars.
29:24He wanted to be hit with things.
29:25He thought that was what wrestling was.
29:28In the year 2000, Vic Grimes is booked to wrestle New Jack in a match featuring a dangerous climax.
29:33When we climbed up on top of the scaffold, it was shaking.
29:37Vic was like, I can't do it, it's too high.
29:39Now, we're on pay-per-view.
29:40There's no time for error.
29:42I said, Vic, let's go on three.
29:44He said, Jack, I can't do it.
29:45I said, f*** you, we're going on three.
29:46I said, one, two, three, and I pulled him.
29:50He did this flip, and his back landed up against the side of my head, and I cracked my skull.
29:57I never recovered from that.
29:59I broke my leg.
30:00I lost my sight in my right eye to this day.
30:03I get headaches every day.
30:05I have insomnia because I cracked my skull.
30:08Vic, this is all your fault, you dumb f***.
30:12That's one of Jack's rules.
30:14Don't say you're going to do something and get up there and chicken out.
30:16Jack's the kind of guy that if you break those rules, well, then he'll probably break you.
30:21A year after the horrific fall that cracked open his skull,
30:31New Jack agrees to a rematch with Vic Grimes with even higher stakes.
30:36What Grimes doesn't know is that New Jack is out for revenge.
30:40Before the match, I went to a pawn shop and bought a stun gun.
30:44But yeah, I was there with New Jack, and he told me he was going to do it before it happened, too, so.
30:49What did he want to have happen?
30:51He told me he was going to take some f***.
30:53And like I'm wrong, he came up to me.
30:56I was ready to kill the f***.
30:57He said, I'm sorry.
30:59I said, f***, you didn't even call me.
31:03I said, I'm over almost a year, you didn't even call me to see how the f*** I was doing.
31:07This is the highest elevation of any match in the history of our sport.
31:16Well, I mean, I was high.
31:18You know what I mean?
31:19I was high as f***.
31:21So I just tased him.
31:22I tased the s*** out of him.
31:24Get it, tack, tack.
31:25I can't feel my legs.
31:26I said, you ain't gonna need them.
31:28Bombs away.
31:28Vic was afoot for missing the ring completely, which would have f*** killed him.
31:39I wanted him to hit the floor.
31:40I just didn't throw him hard enough.
31:42I was trying to throw his ass to the f*** throat.
31:45So we don't piss Jack off, because a fight's never over until Jack says it's over.
31:49I can't believe he didn't like die.
31:50It's the luck of fools that this guy was not at least paralyzed.
31:55And I don't think Jack was particularly broken up about it.
31:57I clammed down off of the f*** down.
32:00I went up to him.
32:00When he was laying in the ring, I told him, I said, now we even, you f***.
32:04Vic Grimes is gonna need medical attention.
32:07Could you have got him for attempted murder?
32:09I don't know.
32:10I mean, I think throwing some off the scaffolding kind of is right on that line.
32:15Incredibly, Grimes' worst injury is a dislocated ankle.
32:18Once again, New Jack has pushed hardcore beyond its limits.
32:23But the demand for this kind of extreme action is only getting more intense.
32:27And now, he's having to compete against the new generation of hardcore wrestlers, willing
32:34to give and receive disturbing levels of punishment.
32:39So it became a one-upsmanship, and can you top this, and got into a position where you
32:45had to go further and further to keep that position, and then it became his calling card.
32:50Would you think there was ever a match where you think you went too far?
32:53Well, I could name a few of them, but I would say probably Gypsy Joe.
32:59Oh, Lord.
33:03Hold on.
33:03I looked at how old he was, but then I forgot when we got in the ring.
33:09In 2003, New Jack faces off against 72-year-old journeyman Gypsy Joe, who promotes himself
33:16as a man impervious to pain.
33:19The problem is no one's bothered to tell New Jack.
33:23The promoter was thinking, oh, this is gonna be the today's hardcore icon and the old pro
33:29from yesteryear that everybody knows is tougher than a $2 steak.
33:32So the night of the show, Joe comes up.
33:35He said, just listen to me, kid.
33:38I can teach you a lot.
33:39I said, you talking to me?
33:41We didn't talk no more.
33:43I went to the ring.
33:45Joe comes to the ring.
33:46And Gypsy Joe, as per his gimmick, wasn't selling New Jack's stuff, because you really
33:52have to hit Joe to make him go down and register because he's so tough.
33:57So then I got to listen to these fans, go home, nigger, nigger, nigger.
34:03And then I was pissed.
34:05I started beating Joe like that, owe me money.
34:08I beat the shit out of him.
34:10Outside the ring, I got a bat.
34:12I had a bar while I wrapped around him.
34:18I hit him in the head like three times.
34:21Jack just said, this old man.
34:24I threw a roll of chairs on him, and it got louder.
34:26Go home, nigger, you nigger.
34:29And dude, the more they said it, the more pissed off I got.
34:34And I beat the shit out of a hundred-year-old man.
34:38Wish the match never should have happened in the first place.
34:41With New Jack's escalating violence comes a higher level of risk, and not just for those
34:46willing to take him on.
34:48Was New Jack, you think, a liability for promoters?
34:50I think some people look at him as a liability, but yes, some promoters would, yeah, absolutely.
34:57New Jack never made it to the WWE because they were never going to touch him, because
35:01he was too controversial.
35:03They were afraid of lawsuits.
35:05They were afraid of bad publicity.
35:06They were afraid he was going to hurt somebody.
35:07With the mainstream appeal of hardcore now in decline, New Jack has resigned to working for
35:13much smaller outfits in the independent circuit, some of whom can barely muster a crowd.
35:19Despite this, New Jack isn't slowing down, and he crosses the line again in 2004.
35:26I've had many trials in my life, yet I keep trying to do what's right.
35:40We bonded really, really well.
35:43I'm an MWW independent recording artist now, but I was a wrestler slash promoter.
35:49When he hit Florida, and he had to come through Jacksonville, he was staying at my house.
35:54Jack is comical.
35:56If you really ever get to know him, he's just a comedian and a great cook.
36:01Any examples of, like, what are the things he would cook?
36:03Spaghetti.
36:05But he enjoys making sure that everybody's happy.
36:08Out of the fire.
36:12Wow.
36:13That's one of mine.
36:15The federation that I used to own and promote was Thunder Wrestling Federation.
36:19Thunder has started gaining some momentum, and Jack had been there a couple of times.
36:25New Jack's opponent is William Jason Lane, wrestling under the name Hunter Redd.
36:30That night, Redd had asked me if he could wrestle Jack.
36:35When you wrestle an icon, it kind of moves you a little bit.
36:38It's on your resume.
36:40And I said, well, Redd, that's a whole different ballgame.
36:45Hunter Redd comes up, and he's like, what you want to do?
36:48I said, dude, we'll go in the back and talk about this.
36:50He said, well, we can talk about it now.
36:52I said, no, we'll go in the back and talk about it.
36:56So I laid it out.
36:57I said, well, this is what we're going to do.
36:59And in the middle of me talking, he got up.
37:01He said, all right, whatever the fuck, whatever the fuck.
37:03I'm looking around like, what the fuck?
37:07I said, who put him up to this?
37:10I said, I will see you in the ring.
37:12Whatever we do, just whatever.
37:14Something was troubling, Redd.
37:17The actual reality of wrestling, New Jack, I think it kind of set in.
37:24Once again, I just don't cope.
37:26Once again, I was high as a m****, drinking vodka, like I'm doing now.
37:31And I had a claw, a Wolverine claw.
37:35It had these three blades on it.
37:37One of the blades that broke off, I had it in my pocket.
37:40When the match began, Redd picked New Jack up and sat him in a corner.
37:46And he punched me.
37:49My nose is big enough.
37:50I don't need nobody to help me get a **** bigger.
37:53Then he punched me again in the nose.
37:56It looks like this guy is really hitting Jack hard.
37:58And then Jack, yeah, the way Jack moves across his ring,
38:01now he's hooking him and he's talking to him.
38:03I said, you trying to handle me?
38:06I said, you really trying to handle me?
38:08Uh-oh, Jack's reaching in his pocket for something.
38:11He's cutting him.
38:12What the?
38:12Oh my!
38:13He's stabbing his m****.
38:14Run!
38:16Oh, s***.
38:17Ooh!
38:18It's never good when you open a wrestling video with a shot of a stage in an empty bandstand.
38:29Oh, good Lord.
38:30What is there, 30 people there?
38:33So the guy comes in the ring.
38:35They lock up.
38:36Okay, already he's pissing New Jack off.
38:38And he pulled a knife out of his **** pants
38:42and is now apparently stabbing this guy who's trying to get away?
38:46What the **** is going on here?
38:48But is he actually stabbing this **** guy?
38:51Look at that woman with her hand over her mouth and the kid,
38:54the 10-year-old kid is sitting there going,
38:56This is a first in 125 years of wrestling history.
39:01Yeah, this is not something that does the public image of professional wrestling a world of good.
39:05The line in wrestling between cooperation and felonious assault is also one of those lines that's blurred.
39:13But I always looked at it this way.
39:16If two guys agree to something beforehand,
39:20and everything that happens happens in those parameters,
39:23they are working together.
39:24If something happens that is egregiously outside those parameters,
39:28such as just take a knife and just slash a guy's face,
39:32that's crossed the line from cooperation to felonious assault.
39:36I stuck him like nine times.
39:39On the news, they said 16.
39:41I said, no, it was nine.
39:43I counted it was nine.
39:45For the second time in his career,
39:47New Jack's violence in the ring lands him in trouble with the law,
39:50and the evidence against him is impossible to ignore.
39:53The guy that called the cops,
39:55he said there'd been a stabbing at the Ramada Inn.
39:59There's a black guy with camouflage on him,
40:02stabbing a white guy.
40:04So that's how they treated it.
40:06The cops came in, gun drove.
40:09Get on the floor!
40:10I remember the police officer asking Jack,
40:12why do you hate white people?
40:14And I just looked at him.
40:16But I thought that was really inappropriate.
40:18They put Red on a stretcher,
40:20and Jack left in a police car.
40:23New Jack is charged with aggravated battery
40:26and faces up to 15 years in a Florida prison.
40:29They took me to jail.
40:32Hunter Red come up to jail.
40:35I'm like, why are you here?
40:36He said, I got an idea.
40:37I'll drop the charges.
40:39You take me on the road,
40:40and we can make an angle out of this.
40:43Hunter Red is looking for New Jack.
40:45He's out for revenge.
40:47He said, we can do the whole Florida circuit.
40:49I said, well, you got to drop the charges first.
40:52I stayed in jail for three weeks.
40:54He went and dropped the charges.
40:57I went home, put my shit in storage,
41:00and I left Florida.
41:01That was the last time I talked to him.
41:04I mean, it was on the news,
41:06and my mom saw it.
41:07She was like, oh, my God,
41:09I can't believe you went there
41:10and you stabbed somebody in the ring.
41:11You should be ashamed of yourself.
41:13I'm like, bitch, it was a show.
41:15What the leave me alone?
41:16You know what I mean?
41:17Because me and my mom, we never got along.
41:19She didn't back me when I was wrestling.
41:22Only, bitch, I got action figures in Toys R Us.
41:24How many of your friends and son
41:27got action figures in Toys R Us?
41:30My dad died when I was five.
41:32He died when I was five.
41:34But I remember the shit he did before he died.
41:38And I'm like, you wonder why sometimes
41:40I flip the fuck out?
41:43Because I was raised in a family
41:45that was fucking retarded.
41:48So I'm like, if I show up for a show
41:50and I go out there and do my thing,
41:52be grateful that I ain't attacking your ass.
41:54You know what I mean?
41:58The thing with Jack is,
41:59he was too much into his gimmick.
42:01He carried that wherever the fuck he was at.
42:04There wasn't no Jerome Young.
42:06It was just New Jack.
42:07New Jack can't benefit
42:09from any of this reputation he's got anymore
42:12because he's,
42:13pretty much his active career is over with.
42:15So I think now it's more of an albatross
42:17around his neck.
42:18I was New Jack when I came in the door.
42:19And I'm still New Jack.
42:22And so then, who is Jerome Young?
42:26That's a difficult question
42:27because the line is blurred
42:28between Jerome Young and New Jack.
42:30If there's a difference,
42:31I don't know
42:32because I don't know
42:33if I ever met Jerome Young.
42:34I don't think I wanted to know for sure.
42:37Because here was a guy
42:38that I could even halfway believe in.
42:39The best part about it is
42:41the legend, believe it or not,
42:42is probably going to be bigger
42:43than the person.
42:45You know what I'm saying?
42:46How stories get,
42:47the tales get taller and taller
42:49and bigger and better
42:50as the time goes.
42:52He perfected his craft
42:53and brought it to the highest level
42:55that he could bring it to.
42:57Because he knew it would leave
42:58a lasting impression.
43:01New Jack leaves behind
43:03a complicated legacy.
43:06Pioneering.
43:07Unrepentant.
43:08But above all,
43:09without compromise.
43:11I don't need nobody out here
43:12cheering for me
43:13and most of all, partner,
43:14I don't need you.
43:16I believe people like that
43:17shouldn't get away with it.
43:19You know, New Jack ain't gonna probably
43:20like what the f*** I'm saying about it.
43:22F*** you, man.
43:24You know what you did.
43:25You f***ed up innocent people.
43:28Eric Koulos' family
43:29declined to participate
43:30in this documentary,
43:32stating it was too traumatic
43:33to revisit the circumstances
43:34and aftermath of the incident
43:36in Revere, Massachusetts.
43:39Let's say one day
43:40they decide to, like,
43:42make a movie
43:42about your life.
43:44What would be the end
43:44of the new Jack movie?
43:46I'm sitting in a wheelchair
43:47snorting coke.
43:49I'm just sitting there
43:56snorting coke,
43:57just getting high as a f***
43:58and they'll be like,
43:59the end.
44:00I'll be like,
44:00thank you, bitches.
44:01ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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