00:00Well, let's talk now to Kerry Brown, Director of the Lao China Institute at King's College in London.
00:06Kerry, welcome back. Good to see you.
00:07What's the significance of the timing of President Xi's meetings with world leaders ahead of this war commemoration?
00:19Yeah, I suppose the geopolitics now is very exceptional,
00:23and everything is sort of overshadowed by what the United States is doing at the moment.
00:27So all of the countries that have been present in Tianjin at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization meeting
00:35in different ways have issues about their relationship with the global system and with America.
00:43And so I suppose this is really a kind of non-aligned group of countries trying to work out where they can work together,
00:53where they might not be able to work together, what their common ground might be.
00:56And so I suppose that is an unprecedented situation.
00:59I mean, I don't think in the past any of them had the kind of common issues with dealing with the United States,
01:05which at the moment is putting, what, 50% tariffs on India,
01:09is obviously putting a great deal of pressure on Russia over Ukraine,
01:13is in the middle of big trade negotiations with China,
01:17and also, of course, still has a very, very big interest in North Korea.
01:21So, you know, this is a kind of incredible mix of different things,
01:25but the common thing is the problem with what to do about America's evolving role under, you know,
01:31President Trump, who's very much centred and focused on American interests above all others.
01:37That's the here and now, and perhaps a glimpse into the future.
01:41Let's talk briefly about the past.
01:43I wonder how you think China views its role in observing and commemorating its World War II history.
01:55Indeed.
01:55Well, ten years ago there was a big military parade for the 70th anniversary.
02:00This is the 80th anniversary of the end of the Sino-Japanese War, the end of the war in Asia.
02:05I mean, I think at that time, and definitely this time,
02:11the kind of narrative was really about how China in particular had been an ally to, you know,
02:17the United Kingdom, the United States, and other powers against fascism.
02:22And that was the sort of common cause, which I think is sometimes forgotten.
02:27With all of the sort of political issues in recent years, people stress the differences,
02:31but this historic link is still very, very important.
02:33And we celebrate the fact that in the First and the Second World War,
02:37Chinese soldiers and Chinese logistics supporters came, were involved in the European struggle,
02:43and of course, Europeans were involved in the struggle in China.
02:47So I think it's one of the kind of things where we kind of can celebrate a, you know,
02:53sort of historic link, a very strong historic link in modern times.
02:56Of course, today it also reinforces the fact that
03:00China is an extremely important military power in the Asia region.
03:04Some people, of course, have very different views about that,
03:07but it's still something we have to, you know, kind of factor in the global order,
03:11that China is a significant player with, you know, a very significant military,
03:15and that we need to know about that.
03:17We need to understand China's aspirations in the modern world.
03:21Briefly, how should we remember, commemorate,
03:24and describe the experience of China during the Second World War?
03:32China lost 20 million people in the Second World War.
03:35I mean, it was a massive sacrifice,
03:38and its war against the fascist leadership in Japan at that time,
03:43you know, was obviously a hugely significant part of that conflict.
03:46I think the Chinese at the time felt that, you know,
03:49that contribution wasn't really understood.
03:53I think today, obviously, we have much more information,
03:56very good books written about that period,
03:58where we can really understand China was an ally.
04:01It was an ally at a key moment in modern history,
04:03and we should never forget that.
04:05Kerry, thank you for that.
04:06Kerry Brown, the director of the Lao China Institute
04:09at King's College in London.
Comments