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00:00Hi, my name is Angelique Jackson. Oh, okay, thank y'all. I'm Angelique Jackson, one of the senior
00:06entertainment writers at Variety, and it is my pleasure to be spending this lovely evening with
00:11you all as we break down this incredible, now Emmy-nominated documentary, Sly Lives,
00:18aka The Burden of Black Genius. So joining me for this conversation, we have first one of our
00:24film subjects, KCRW DJ and daughter of Sly Stone, Vivina Carmel. And also joining us, we have an
00:40Academy Award winner and producer of this film, Joseph Patel. And last but certainly not least,
00:49again, another Academy Award winner, and the director and executive producer of this film,
00:54Amir Questlove-Thompson.
01:08Does anyone have a parka?
01:13Yeah, why is it so cold in here?
01:17They just want to make sure everyone's like paying like really rapt attention. Which I mean,
01:22I don't know how you could not pay attention when this is obviously music that is the soundtrack
01:26to our lives, but also, you know, presented in a way that is so unique.
01:32I was going to say, like, you know, we've been on this grind for a minute, like just showing
01:38it, screening it for people. I never knew that we made a comedy movie. Like, all the jokes
01:44were hidden.
01:45All the jokes.
01:46So thank you.
01:48Was there one in particular that you were like, oh, wow, nobody's, nobody's laughed at
01:51that yet?
01:51No, I was literally like, yo, we're funny.
01:56Well, I guess, I mean, maybe, Naveena, I'm going to ask you, was there anything that you
02:00spoke about or a question or a line of questioning that came up that maybe surprised you in the
02:06creation of this?
02:07Wait, can you rephrase that?
02:10Just, I was so curious, because obviously, like when you go and sit down, like you have
02:14a very unique perspective on this. This is your dad. But when someone comes to you and
02:20your family and is going to make a documentary, you probably think there's certain things you're
02:25going to talk about. But was there anything that Amir asked you that was like, oh, I didn't
02:30expect to like conjure that memory?
02:32Hmm. It was like a while ago. So it's hard to remember. You know, I remember most now what
02:38I'm seeing in the documentary. But I think just in general, it was like, the whole experience
02:45was like more emotional than I thought it would be. I think also watching it, I didn't expect
02:51I thought I would watch it and be like, oh, you know, it was amazing. But seeing when we
02:56saw it at Sundance, I needed to like recover from watching it the first time. I couldn't like
03:01interact with anybody. And I just felt like really overwhelmed. So that was the part for me that
03:06I think was the most unexpected. And then the other part was I didn't realize how big of a star
03:14my dad was until seeing the film, which I maybe sounds crazy. But the reason why is sort of explained
03:23in the film, which is at a certain time, people were giving him all this attention. And then
03:30it wasn't like appreciated in the same way afterwards as other people like David Bowie or whoever was
03:35mentioned. And so since I was born in the 80s, it wasn't in culture that he was talked about in that
03:41way. I knew he was like, you know, that he had records and stuff. It's not like I thought he was like
03:45Joe Schmo. But I just didn't realize how big he was.
03:49And it's true. Like also his position in pop culture at the time was also super unique. Like
03:55you I mean, obviously, you weren't alive for that part of it. But like, that is something that the
04:00documentary really gets at very well is that he was moving and operating in spaces that other
04:05especially other black artists were not. Why was that something important to highlight? And how did
04:11you kind of kind of want to unpack that for the audience? Yeah. Um, damn, now I'm like you wait,
04:17say it again. It's cold. It is like literally I was like my brain is frozen.
04:28Wait, just one more time. No, just that idea that his position, you do a really good job of
04:34illuminating that like his stardom was different than any other black artists at that time. You know,
04:39it was weird. Um, it could. Yes, you're watching the story of Sly Stone. But I really wanted to
04:50tell the story of Sylvester Stewart. But really, I wanted to tell the story of every artist that goes
04:58through this. I didn't know how much of an eye opener this film was like, I just assume that
05:02everyone knew that like, uh, hypothetically speaking, like, uh, rhythm nation sample. Thank
05:11you for letting me be myself. I'm like, Oh, everyone knows this. Right. And apparently. And
05:14then when people were like, Oh my God, I didn't know that. Then I realized like, Oh, so part of
05:20this is also the art of hiding in plain sight. Like Sly is so ubiquitous. And yes, he definitely
05:29created the timing is everything. He created the alphabet for which we're all still using
05:35his, I mean, we didn't even go through half the other things that he, like his innovations,
05:42like singing at various speeds, uh, multi-track recording, like the idea of being the bedroom
05:48musician, like that principal and Stevie Wonder will later own. But this was less about, uh, air
05:57quote, a falling star and more about a human. And even in, when you, uh, asked Novena the
06:04question about like, did I ask what I, I sort of knew that for everyone involved, like getting
06:11them, coaxing them to speak on this, literally every person that was interviewed, um, definitely
06:19had some apprehension and, you know, on top of it, like at least how many 18, 19 other.
06:25We got a lot of nos, right? Exactly. So because talking about your vulnerability and yourself
06:34is, is a hard thing to do. So even in the process for which we did it, you know, when
06:40they're talking to you directly, um, we use the, uh, interrotron, um, method, which was,
06:47it kind of makes the interview subject feel like only them and, uh, me are matter of fact,
06:54they can't even see me. Like when they're answering, like there, there's like a double
06:57mirror. So you feel like you're in the room by yourself and that's how you feel comfortable.
07:02Nobody would get that truthful or vulnerable. If like there's 16 people like holding up
07:06equipment and stuff. So, um, yeah, it was important to really provide a comfortable environment for
07:14even our interview subjects as well.
07:16Let's take a step back. Actually, how long had you been musing on that idea of this question
07:23of black genius and, and what that experience is?
07:27Okay. So because, uh, for those that follow my, uh, musical canon, they will know that I'm often the
07:37second banana to a lot of artists that might be known for that, that are known for kind of going
07:47down the same path that slide did. Um, and there was just a point where it's especially like around
07:54maybe like 2012, 2013, where I just got fatigued and got tired of answering why blah, blah, blah,
08:03doesn't show up or why dah, dah, dah, always shows up late or why this person died or why that
08:10person died. One time my, my, my, my girlfriend, she was joking, but it really hit me. She's like,
08:16you know, like your, your Instagram account is like a digital morgue. And when I heard that I was
08:23like, and I counted and I was like, yo, there's over 300 obituaries of black artists, 300. And
08:31Instagram's only been around less than a decade, but all the RIP, you know, there's 10,000 posts up
08:39there, but 300 of them are just dedicated to those that couldn't make it. And in some sort of
08:48self-sabotage way, that's, you know, what happened. So this, this was always my intent, uh, in a non
08:58dramatic, uh, uh, what do you call it? Uh, intervention talk way, but this is my intervention
09:05talk, you know?
09:07And something that is beautiful about this doc though, is that this is a documentary that came
09:13out while Sly was still with us, while Sylvester Stewart was still alive to see and see how much
09:22care you all put in telling this story. Joseph, I'm actually going to put that to you first. Um,
09:29what was that experience like for you all as filmmakers?
09:34You know, we, I think really appreciated the opportunity to give someone their flowers while
09:40they were still alive. I think that was not lost on us. And, you know, when we first started
09:48screening this movie in January, people were asking, well, why is Sly not in it? And I was
09:53like, did you watch the movie? Right? Because it's like, why would we put him through that?
09:59Right? Like he wasn't in the best health and the, and the, and the time he had, he should
10:04have to himself and do with it what he wants. And I don't think, Sly also, I think, looking
10:11at all his archival interviews, he was never the most revealing person. Like the stuff he revealed
10:15was in between spaces. Right? So we talked about our approach to this film. Our first
10:21conversation was, was doing this film with a lot of empathy, but yeah, it wasn't lost
10:26on us that, that, you know, I guess truth be told, we didn't know if he would still be
10:31alive by the time we finished the film. We just didn't know his health. And, um, you
10:39know, when we first got word that he saw the film, the finished film, I think it was December
10:43last year, it was like, you know, that means a lot, you know? Um, and this is the first
10:52screening we've done since he passed. So I got it. It hit different. It hit, it hits
10:57different. It hits different. And also want to just recognize that Sylvester Stewart
11:02Jr. Uh, his son is in the audience right now. Hey, how you doing? Um, and so I don't know
11:11how it is for you two, but it really, as filmmakers, it really hits different to see that last photo
11:18of him, which was taken in September of last year, um, almost a year ago. And, um, you know,
11:24we wanted to get that photo. If we weren't going to have him in the film, we wanted to just show
11:27people like what, like he was in, you know, he put on the wig and he got the sequin jacket.
11:33And then the other thing is, you know, his funeral a couple months ago, we, um, Arlene
11:40introduced me to Iris. Was that her name? And, uh, she introduced me as the film, the documentary
11:46producer. And she's like, Oh, you love that film. And I was like, yeah, I heard he watched
11:50it and he really liked it. She's like, no, he watched it all the time. And that really just
11:56moved me. Like really still, I think it's like one of the most incredible things you
12:01can say. Right. So I think, um, I mean, texted the mirror right after him because he was in
12:06Europe, unfortunately. And I just was like, ah, I can't believe this happened. So yeah,
12:10I think, I think long answer, sorry. Um, just the ability to give an artist their flowers
12:17while they're still alive. And I think the, the point of the movie, one of the points of
12:22the movie is just these artists that have given us so much to show them a lot of grace.
12:37Amir, what was it like to be on the receiving end of that text message?
12:40Um, you know, getting, gaining someone's trust is, is important. And I know that long
12:50after we're, we're gone, that this is going to be here forever. Um, and you know, I think
12:59it's important and all the stories that we tell, um, especially living in, in a time in
13:08which, um, erasure of history is real. Um, so it's, it's almost triple quadruple on my
13:18mind to not only, um, teach a history lesson, but make something entertaining and apparently
13:26funny. Um, but, um, also to, there's still a way to reveal the truth without, I mean, look,
13:36we could have easily, easily just went down, you know, our, our blood lust for gossip and
13:43stories and, you know, kind of in this social media reality phase that we're in right now,
13:49it would have been so easy to go down that route, but that's like not, not serving anyone. Like
13:54it's temporary entertainment for now, but there were like five or six, uh, birds we had to hit with
14:02just one stone. And so, oh, no pun intended. Yo dawg, wait. I don't know why you're surprised
14:12the film was funny. For all, for all of our projects, always the title comes last. The king
14:23of puns and, and stories and limericks and similes and metaphor, we never once thought about
14:28in some birds with stones. Like I want to get in the time machine to see if we can make that work
14:34as a title. No, but this, this is absolutely the, the, the most apropos, um, title for, uh, for this
14:44because now more than ever, he, he is going to live and you know, more, more than me getting that
14:52text from him. Um, I'll say that, uh, at least 20 of my peers getting a lot of, I feel seen,
15:03you know, like, wow, finally, finally, someone knows how I feel that to me was even more important,
15:12you know, besides, and yes, uh, respect to all the voting members here. I appreciate y'all, but
15:19to me, the, my, my, my first goal, uh, was to reach people in that way to, cause artistry
15:30is a place where you can just get lost inside your head and, and spin out of control and
15:36then evaporate, you know? You know, I, I just going to add to that. Um, we taught, we thought
15:42of the title Sly Lives early, right? And we, you know, like Amir said, like, you know, we made the
15:49movie forever and whether Sly was going to be alive or not by the time we finish, whether we're here,
15:55the, the Sly Lives is truly the gift he gives, gave to the world, right? And the people he influenced
16:02through then went on to change the world in their way. And then those people are influenced, like,
16:06it all sort of stems from Sly, right? First post civil rights era black artists to like top the
16:13charts. There's a shot in the film where we show this poster of a two day music festival. Day one
16:19is headlined by Led Zeppelin. Day two is headlined by Sly and the Family Stone. Equal font size,
16:25right? And I love that poster because to your point, like, I think a lot of people took for granted
16:34Sly's stature. He was that big, right? And he was homegrown, right? That's an American festival.
16:41He's homegrown. He's headlining this festival. And I think a lot about, we didn't tell anyone the
16:49title. We just had it written down in a, right? We tell ourselves the title. But we kind of knew,
16:55sort of like, we don't decide it until we're in the edit, right? Until we're like, fine cut stage,
16:59we're like, here's the title. Um, you got to kind of feel the movie, right? But we had it written
17:03down as a potential title, Sly lives. And then we interviewed Vernon Reed and he goes on this
17:08monologue that ends the film and he said it, he's like, Sly lives. And we all sort of looked at each
17:15other. We're like, this is the title. It has to be. And so anyway, I really liked that story and,
17:22and how, you know, the, the, the, the, the story we tell and the title of the film, both parts of it,
17:30like, it's all right there. Right. And I, I really liked that about the movie.
17:35I mean, there's nothing that confirms more that you're on the right track and that you're, you're,
17:40you're basically like following the, the kismet. It's all coming together. But Navina, I want to ask
17:46you because, you know, you said about watching it at Sundance, you had to take a minute to like,
17:50really sit with it. How is it watching it again tonight?
17:54It's really different every time. Um, as was mentioned, it's the first time that I've watched
18:02it and been at a screening since he passed away. So that was, uh, weird in its own way. And then
18:07every audience responds differently, which is fun. And it kind of makes things stand out more. Um,
18:14and just it, there's, it's such a rich documentary. There's so many parts to it. Just it's, it's the
18:20kind of thing where every time you watch it, you see something you haven't before. So, um,
18:25but I think today, yeah, it hit me in an added way, like that I'm really happy that it exists
18:30and that, you know, Sly lives through the documentary. Um, and yeah, I just found myself
18:40thankful watching it. Yeah. I just say thankful and, and, and happy to see it. It wasn't, I thought it
18:48would be actually harder for me, but it didn't feel hard. It was just like, Oh, I'm really happy
18:52that, that it was made. And it just, it feels like everything is, has been happening in a really
18:57good timeline, even though, you know, some people, um, are not here anymore. It's just like nice
19:06that he was able to see it. Um, and I'm happy to be here with all of y'all right now.
19:12Yeah. Did you find that you laughed once tonight? I've laughed many times. Yeah. What made you laugh?
19:20Oh, I mean, it is funny. There's so many funny parts. It's Jerry. Jerry. Jerry is hilarious.
19:28Yeah. I mean, there's, everybody's a character in their own way. Um, I do love how you said like
19:34a lot of what, you know, Sly communicates is like in between the things he says. And those are the kind
19:39of things that you notice depending on like what your mindset is. I think each time seeing
19:45that, um, also just knowing him as a person and seeing those like typical Sly things that
19:52he says like many decades back, like there was some footage where he was with George. He's
19:57like, I'll be right back. He left the stage. I'm like, I've seen him do that so many times
20:01on stage. Um, and, uh, there was a few of those other things that were, it was just fun
20:07to think about those too. To that idea. I mean, you know, in crafting a documentary like
20:13this, there, there's always so much archive. There's always, you know, this performance,
20:18that performance, what you choose, what you do not. What were some of the kind of things
20:23that you like immediately knew like this will be in this, this documentary?
20:27We started with stand, right? It's like we started in the middle and then figured out
20:35what our intro was later. But I believe that the, the, the stand, uh, sequence was first.
20:46I mean, there was, there was an embarrassment of riches. Um, there's a lot, I don't know when
20:52I watch it, I still have the temptation to be like, okay, if we ever get a criterion
20:58collection or like the deluxe version, can we please put the hot fun in the summertime
21:03story back in? Like to me that that's the, of, of all the things that we had to leave
21:10on, on the cutting room floor to me, um, Vernon's take on hot fun in the summertime to me is something
21:20that like will never leave me. And I won't say like, Oh, well ruins it ruins the vision of it
21:26forever. But, um, even I explained to you and I don't think you'll hear it the same, but basically
21:32Vernon explains, um, that oftentimes there's a way to use, uh, sort of melodic innocence and hot fun in
21:44the summertime is draped in a lot of like Americana beauty and innocence. And Vernon's like Sly is
21:51basically describing a summer day that you're never going to have in this lifetime. Like you
21:56think you're going to have it. And when you listen, when you really, when, when that intro comes and it
22:02comes on and the, and the strings come in nice and everything, we never get to experience that
22:08summer. And the fact that Sly is able to use that level of irony, especially in 1969, which feels very
22:21much like we are where we are right now. Like he created that song in a tumultuous time period that
22:27we feel every day right now. And, um, to me, it's genius that he used. And that's, that's for me, um,
22:37um, when I discovered that Stevie Wonder used the same trick on village ghetto land for songs in the
22:44key of life. Like at first I thought like, Oh, he's using synthesizers and symphonic beauty and
22:51whatnot. And then I realized like, Oh, this is a sarcastic song about, you know, how bad and how bad
22:58conditions are now. And so, I mean, but there's so many ways that we could have just went inside
23:05baseball and showing like how Sly innovated, uh, and changed music for forever. But, you know,
23:14maybe in a, but we did do that. Okay. We will. There's parts where we did that. Like I, one of
23:19my favorite parts is like, um, Jimmy and Terry and Vernon breaking down the songs and, um, you know,
23:28Jimmy's part in stand when he breaks down stand, there's no playback in the room. He's doing it all
23:34out of memory and it's in perfect time and perfect pitch. And it was like, we're like,
23:38it happened and we're just like staring at each other. Like what this man is like a genius.
23:44And, um, and I really, you know, I think one of the things we talked about when we were setting up
23:49the film is like, we want to ask, not, not just have people tell, tell us that Sly was a genius,
23:54but actually break down the songs to show us. So dance the music, right? They're talking about
24:01unison and how, how sing songy it is and how it makes it easier for like the listener to repeat
24:06back the lines. And same with everyday people. Um, or like, you know, in dance the music,
24:12everyone gets a part, right? So in a weird way, Sly is introing the band again to the audience,
24:17right? You know, other, other places where we break down his lyrics. I think that was really
24:23important for us that we realized how many music docs don't actually break down the music.
24:29music. And so that was, you know, obviously we have a master musicologist, um, um, behind the
24:36camera. So, uh, you know, so it was, it was easy to, it was easy to do, right? To say, well, what's,
24:43what, what is it actually interesting about this song? And he gets really excited in the room and
24:49we start, you know, writing it on a whiteboard and start mapping it out. And then the cool thing too,
24:53is that when we ask those questions of, of people like Vernon, um, they know exactly what,
25:00what, how to explain it. And I think that, that to me is like one of the cool parts of the film.
25:04But even cooler, um, was Jimmy and Terry did their interviews, uh, 3000 miles apart and days apart.
25:14And the fact that they told, you would have thought they would have been together telling
25:19that story together. And it wasn't. And that was the one thing I wanted Jimmy and Terry to be
25:24separate because oftentimes like Jimmy and Terry are almost like the black pen and teller. Like
25:29you never get to hear Terry talk or
25:33so the fact that they were both in sync with each other even shows the beauty of their relationship
25:41that they were, it was like run DMC almost like watching them tell that story. And those were
25:46days and miles apart from each other. So. Oh, and then real quick. So, uh, that scene,
25:51Josh Pearson, our editor, genius. Um, also the, all the interviews look as good as they do because
25:57of our DP, Laura Marriott. Yeah, Laura.
26:04Where you at, Laura? Hi. Hi.
26:07Yeah. Just like really thoughtful and considered and with approaches, the craft with rigor. And
26:14that's why all the interview shots look so good. So Laura, thank you.
26:23That is always kind of the beauty of making a film and really kind of actually it's sort of in a way
26:30you guys are sort of doing what we were just discussing that Sly did in the songs and reintroducing
26:35the band. In your case, it is the actual production, everyone who worked with you on it,
26:39because there are so many layers to making this, not just a, a doc about a person, not just a doc
26:48about the music, but really just as broad as possible, an explanation of how it all ties together
26:54as you kind of are reflecting on it. And now that it's done, now that it's out there,
26:59I know you already said, you know, there are plenty of things that you could add, you know,
27:04what is the part of the art of making this? Like, what is the takeaway as a filmmaker? Like,
27:10what did you learn about filmmaking from this particular doc?
27:15You know what? This film actually helped me learn about the other areas of my life,
27:21you know, because there's also the therapeutic angle that I had to get together. By one year and a
27:28half, then I started wondering, like, wait a minute, am I an effective band leader in my own
27:33group? And no, we had to get our little Metallica, some kind of monster therapy on as well. So
27:39not to mention, when you're studying someone's
27:44art craft of how they create music, and you know, mind you, we're going through reels and reels and
27:53reels and sessions and sessions and reels. So even the osmosis effect on, like, now I feel like I,
28:00and I know I'm not trying to cap anyone, but like, even after 16 records, like, I'm like, oh,
28:05now I finally know how to write a song. So, you know, so even the next Roots album will be
28:12completely transformed and different, only because, like, this was, this was the, the,
28:19the master's class of, of learning, uh, that I wasn't privy to before. And so I've, I might
28:29almost the opposite, like, this film actually helped me in my life, you know, communicating
28:36with people, uh, all those things. Yeah.
28:41Exactly why, as you said, you know, your peers came to you and said, I feel seen by this. I think
28:46a lot of people in here, I was proven with, I'm sure, filled with artists of some, you
28:51know, of some sort. I would imagine a lot of people felt that way watching this.
28:57Well, thank you. I'm glad you received it. You know.
29:03Naveena, did it help, did it make you feel seen in any way in this?
29:08Wow. That's interesting. Um, I don't know. Did it make me feel seen? I think I was just
29:18thinking, I, it's kind of hard because I'm so close to the subject of the film. So it's
29:22like, it's more like my interest is in him being seen. And I also, one of the like big
29:30lessons that I've taken from having slides, my dad, and then also witnessing people's,
29:38um, conversations around him and who they think he is, who, what they think he should
29:43do or should have done or whatever is, um, it almost made me feel seen. And like my understanding
29:50of how to treat people that are celebrities or giving a lot in front of people. I mean,
29:58it could even be, I don't know, the principal of a school or whatever, right? That I, I much
30:05easier witness how quickly people turn in a negative way on things that they really have
30:13gotten a lot out of and also truly know very little about as though that thing is not human.
30:19Um, and we do that all the time. I mean, people do that to me on the radio as well. And it's
30:24very interesting. It's very easy for people. I think even more these days because we have social
30:29media to kind of feel like that's not a person that we're experiencing. Um, and whenever we can
30:39like put a mirror to that, I think it's one of the most powerful things because people wake up
30:44immediately when they can realize that they're doing that. And I've done that to people. Someone
30:49will send me a mean message and I'm like, that was a really rude thing to say to a human
30:53being like essentially, but I'll still be like kind. And they're like, Oh my God,
30:56I'm so sorry. I thought you would never read that. You're right. That is a terrible thing
30:59to say. Like shockingly they flip. And, um, and so I show up at their house. Yeah. I'm going
31:07to send a mirror, but I just think it's such a weird phenomenon that like continues, um, that
31:15we need to be reminded of constantly. And so I'm really happy of the film's, um, ability
31:22to do that. But I also feel like, um, it's interesting cause in watching it, there's still
31:28a certain element of mystery. I think in the documentary of trying to guess what Sly was
31:34doing and how he felt. And, and I think it, there's not one answer, you know, like there's
31:40a lot of people that are experts or they have their perception, which, which makes sense.
31:46And it is all dealt with very compassionately, but there's moments in it where, you know,
31:51um, I think it was Vernon reader, maybe it was the other, someone else who was like, he
31:55was trying to stay relevant. And even that to me, I was like, you don't know that that's
31:59your perception. But like, maybe he was just having fun trying things. Like not everything
32:05has to be like, it's just like, you know, um, and I also meet and me knowing him personally,
32:13like I, I know that he was always like a character and like to put on acts. So I thought a lot
32:20about like, is that an act that we're just not getting it, you know? And even him like
32:28performing and doing things. I'm like, people do that all the time on like Regis and Kelly
32:32or whatever. They go on and they do the funny game because that's what daytime television
32:36likes. Maybe he was ahead of his time and his peers were not doing that. And you know,
32:41whatever. So there's just, I think that you can watch it again and still form your own.
32:47Like the people that are there have a smart, in the documentary have a smart take, which
32:52makes a lot of sense, but you can also watch it many times and maybe from what you learn
32:56about Sly through it, form your own kind of, um, ideas of what's possible too.
33:01I was going to say, I, um, I, I worked with Bobby Womack, um, back in 2000 and immediately
33:11second, we went on lunch break. I was just, you know, I was trying to sort of curb my enthusiasm
33:16and not go like just overwhelming with a whole bunch of questions. But you know, it was a point
33:21where we were cool and he let his guard down and then I was like, all right, I'm gonna ask
33:25some sly questions and, you know, and, you know, and I was one of those people that, you
33:31know, there, there's often with, with black art, there's, um, sort of a fetishization over,
33:38you know, kind of watching black paint or whatnot. And when I was asking Bobby Womack about the,
33:50the riot sessions, you know, I was like, so like, what was it? Because the, the, the one
33:55thing I, I, the one question I didn't get to answer is why did Sly decide to sing in his
34:00lower register? Instead of his cheerleader tenor register, he sings everything in his
34:05baritone lower register, something like that. And so, you know, I was, I was going off the
34:10demon, like, so Bobby, like, what, what was it like when you guys doing like a lot of drugs
34:14scenarios and everything. He was just like, like the joy that Bobby Womack got in just
34:21taking the pin to the balloon, like, nope. He's like, oh man, Sly was such an actor. Like
34:26we was just acting. And like, I kind of walked away dejected. Like, like I'm thinking this
34:35is like, he's going to tell me this outlandish story and everything. He was just like, nah,
34:39man, we just rolled the thing. He's like, he's singing in character.
34:42I don't trust Bobby's memory. Bobby has a different reality. You never know.
34:54And also sometimes you get the tea and it's actually just ice cold. But, but that's what's
35:00so interesting and, and works so well about this is because at, at some point also too,
35:05like, it's not anybody's business. And so this is just presenting just this beautiful,
35:13empathetic, um, just honestly, just gorgeous rendition of how much Sly meant.
35:22Yeah. Yeah. And also just like an opportunity to form other perspectives and get, get more,
35:29more, more to the story. At least if you're going to have your own judgments or whatever,
35:35like, let's get a lot more information in this story so that you can, your mind can open to what's
35:41possible with how you're viewing this person and how you view anything.
35:46Honestly, this should have been a series. Like Sly is of that stature, right? And I mean,
35:52I love this movie and I, and, and, but like, you know, Bob Dylan wouldn't get a two hour movie.
35:59He'd get, you know, it's a 20 part series over six months.
36:03Billy Joy is a five and a half hour.
36:05I'm saying like, I, and I think so, you know, part of it for us was just like,
36:10you know, reminding people, putting this movie out was really a reminder to people of how
36:16important he was. And there's some people that we talked to in the process of making this movie who
36:22were working on their own projects. And our attitude was always good. Like there should
36:28be more stories about Sly. There should be more books and more movies and more podcasts and whatever.
36:34These, that important. Well, thank you for giving us the first. Well, thank you all so much for
36:41joining us. And just reminder, streaming on Hulu, Sly lives, aka the bird and black genius. Thank you all.
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