- 4 months ago
Disaster Transbian episode 100 (split into two parts on Dailymotion)
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00:01Maria Katsaris is next. She's coming right now and she will give her statement right now.
00:11This is Maria Katsaris. I am 24 years old and I am the daughter of Steven Katsaris who I understand is making public statements to the media that I am being held in some sort of state of captivity here in Guyana. Do you copy?
00:27He has also said a lot of other things that are equally and totally false. I'm making this statement to set the record straight once and for all. Do you copy?
00:40First of all, I am not being held in any sort of captivity. That is totally absurd. I have gone to several places on business for the church and have traveled alone.
00:51Now, let's get down into the real reasons for Mr. Katsaris' lies. First of all, this man has sexually molested me. He did this all through my childhood up into my teens. Do you copy?
01:05He has always had a sick attachment to me. He is indeed a disturbed person and has had to go for several years to a psychotherapist about his problems. He is a highly manipulative person and like many mentally sick people, he is an excellent actor.
01:23He can look you right in the eye and convince you that he is the model of virtue. Do you copy?
01:30He is particularly hung up on me and cannot stand the fact that I have grown up, have left his household and refused to worship him. He has actually told me that I should worship him as an icon unto God. Do you copy?
01:43Not only that, but the man was an ordained minister all during the time he was molesting me. What he put me through had so totally traumatized me as a child that I was for years terrified to even tell anyone anything about it. You copy?
02:00Now I am telling everyone and putting it on the record. I don't want anything to do any longer with this sick man. I am engaged and fully independent. It is time he grew up, got over his pathetic hangups and desires to be worshipped. I am saying to Stephen Katsaris, I want you to leave me alone. Do you copy?
02:21I couldn't be happier than I am here in Jonestown in Guyana. This community is a great challenge and opportunity for me. And I have never felt better, been healthier, or been involved in more interesting and rewarding work. Do you copy?
02:35The end of my statement? That is the end of my statement.
02:40Okay, how are you copying? Because you got a lot of, um, some QS, well, this QSB, uh, you can explain that. It's fading on this end. Over.
02:51Yesterday, Layton was at Port Cartima Airport, under arrest and on his way to Georgetown. He told NBC News correspondent Fred Francis he was at the airport when the murders took place.
03:10What's your name?
03:11He gave a negative shake of the head when asked whether he was involved.
03:14My name is Larry Layton.
03:16Larry Light?
03:17Layton.
03:18Light Layton?
03:19Yeah.
03:20How do you spell that?
03:21L-A-Y-T-O.
03:22L-A-Y-T-O.
03:23And where are you from?
03:24California.
03:25What have you been charged with, Larry?
03:27I have yet to hear the charges.
03:31Were you involved in the shooting here at the airport?
03:33I have no more statements until I hear the charges.
03:45After the 1965 Watts Riots, Leo Ryan took a job as a substitute school teacher to investigate and document conditions in the Los Angeles area.
03:58In 1970, he launched an investigation into California prisons.
04:04While presiding as chairman of the assembly committee that oversaw prison reform, he used a pseudonym to enter Folsom State Prison as an inmate.
04:15During his time in Congress, Ryan traveled to Newfoundland to investigate the practice of seal hunting.
04:22He was also known for his vocal criticism of the lack of congressional oversight of the CIA and co-authored the Hughes-Ryan Amendment, passed in 1974, which required the President of the United States to report covert CIA activity to Congress.
04:40Ryan was friends with the father of former Temple member, Bob Houston, whose mutilated body was found near train tracks on October 5th, 1976, three days after a taped telephone conversation with Houston's ex-wife in which they discussed his leaving the Temple.
05:01The State Department characterized possible United States government action in Guyana against Jonestown as a potential, quote, legal controversy, unquote, but Ryan, at least, partially rejected this viewpoint.
05:17In a later article in the Chronicle, Ryan was described as having, quote, but the local Democratic establishment and the Jimmy Carter administration's State Department, unquote.
05:30Ryan asked the other members of the Bay Area congressional delegation to join him on the trip to Jonestown, but they all declined.
05:38Ryan also invited his friend, Indiana congressman and future vice president, Dan Quayle, who had served with Ryan on the Government Operations Committee, but Quayle was unable to go.
05:51Ryan asserted that if Jonestown had become a, quote, gulag, unquote, he would do everything he could to free the captives.
06:00What about George Jackson, that when they, when they isolate him, that the only way he survived.
06:05Don't you dirty the name of George Jackson.
06:07Don't, don't you dirty the name of George Jackson.
06:10If George Jackson had had this movement, he'd be alive.
06:13Don't you dirty his name.
06:14You're not worthy of his goddamn name.
06:16Don't you speak his name, you prick.
06:18Don't you mention it.
06:19Because this organization will have saved George Jackson.
06:22It's pricks like you that sold him down the river that caused him to be dead.
06:26You're not a George Jackson.
06:27You're a punk.
06:27You goddamn miserable punks.
06:44You gangsters that want to identify with George Jackson.
06:47And if he'd had some of you miserable punks working with him, he wouldn't have been killed by the pigs.
06:52If he'd had this organization, he talked about it.
06:55You haven't read his books.
06:56He talked about this kind of organization we have.
06:58You miserable goddamn punk.
07:00Don't you ever dirty his name again until you can learn to cooperate and follow rules, you miserable punk.
07:08On November 14th, Ryan left Washington and arrived in Georgetown, the capital of Guyana, 150 miles from Jonestown,
07:17with his congressional delegation of government officials, media representatives, and some members of the concerned relatives.
07:26That night, the delegation stayed at a local hotel where, despite confirmed reservations,
07:32most of the rooms had been canceled and reassigned, leaving the delegation to sleep in the lobby.
07:37For three days, Ryan continued to negotiate with Jones' legal counsel and held perfunctory meetings with embassy personnel and Guyanese officials.
07:48On November 17th, Ryan's aide, Jackie Speer, who became a congresswoman in 2008,
07:56the United States Embassy Deputy Chief of Mission, Richard Dwyer, a Guyanese Ministry of Information officer,
08:03nine journalists, and four concerned relatives' representatives of the delegation,
08:08boarded a small plane for the flight to Port Kaituma Airport, a few miles outside of Jonestown.
08:15On November 16th, May 15th, a few miles outside of Jonestown, a few miles outside of Jonestown,
08:19the U.S. diez opent of Jonestown is the most important part of the city and the U.S.
08:21I don't know.
08:51I don't know.
09:21I don't know.
09:51I don't know.
10:21I don't know.
10:51I don't know.
11:21I don't know.
11:23I don't know.
11:25I don't know.
11:27I don't know.
11:29I don't know.
11:31I don't know.
11:33I don't know.
11:35I don't know.
11:37I don't know.
11:39I don't know.
11:41I don't know.
11:43I don't know.
11:45I don't know.
11:47I don't know.
11:49I don't know.
11:50I don't know.
11:51I don't know.
11:53I don't know.
11:55I don't know.
11:57I don't know.
11:59I don't know.
12:01I don't know.
12:02I don't know.
12:03I don't know.
12:04I don't know.
12:05I don't know.
12:06I don't know.
12:07I don't know.
12:08I don't know.
12:09I don't know.
12:10I don't know.
12:11I don't know.
12:12I don't know.
12:13I don't know.
12:14I don't know.
12:15bay area who have expressed an interest in people who are here and that's our own intention to come
12:24before i give permission to go in there i would have to get instructions from my chief inspector
12:30before any permission could be granted by me but i'm just carrying your duties good
12:35not a lot of detail to do sure i have no intention of hurting or stopping or anything like that and
12:40that i want to do with a great respect for your government for the rules of your country thank
12:45you can you say where is your superior officer matthews ridge so the request went from the
12:55request went from the people at people's temple to matthews rich to matthews rich to not let any of
13:01these people in uh when i come in here um do you want to speak to his superior officer no no i have
13:09no argument i just i just won't be sure i understand no because um he intended to do exactly what he
13:15says you know what i want to tell you is that um we are neutralists really because we don't know what's
13:23really going on we were asked not to get on transport for you to go into john's town which um where the
13:33the people um people is going to resign but um this is spoken too i'm the office in charge here if a chance
13:44you want to go to have any contact with george tom or let's say the police of matches rich you're welcome
13:53okay thank you right that's my stand i think you're not police do you understand that for the
13:58poor climate concern is a member of congress i'm here simply asking people people's temple if they
14:05will allow us to come in we can do it not intend any kind of trouble any kind of problem that's your
14:09problem when the people said right we're seeking their private matters i'm just handing this out to
14:14you right in the time if you want to make further contact you're welcome fine thank you i think i'll
14:18take you to my office and you can bring you know thank you you're welcome welcome too thank you
14:27at first only the temple legal council was allowed off the plane but eventually the entire entourage
14:34including gordon lindsay reporting for nbc was allowed in
14:48so
14:57so
15:01so
15:37I'm going to do it for a shot.
16:07I'm going to do it for a shot.
16:37I'm going to do it.
17:07I'm going to do it for a shot.
17:37I'm going to do it for a shot.
18:07I'm going to do it for a shot.
18:37I'm going to do it.
19:06I'm going to do it for a shot.
19:36I'm going to do it for a shot.
19:38I'm going to do it for a shot.
19:40I'm going to do it for a shot.
19:42I'm going to do it for a shot.
19:44I'm going to do it for a shot.
19:46I'm going to do it for a shot.
19:48I'm going to do it for a shot.
19:50I'm going to do it for a shot.
19:52I'm going to do it for a shot.
19:54I'm going to do it for a shot.
19:58I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:00I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:02I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:04I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:06I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:08I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:10I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:12I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:16I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:18I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:20I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:22I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:24I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:26I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:28I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:30I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:32I'm going to do it for a shot.
20:34Oh, oh, oh, oh.
21:04Oh, oh, oh, oh.
21:34Oh, oh, oh, oh.
22:04Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
22:06Oh, oh, oh, oh.
22:08Oh, oh, oh.
22:10Oh, oh, oh.
22:12Oh, oh, oh, oh.
22:14Oh, oh, oh.
22:16Oh, oh, oh, oh.
22:18Oh, oh, oh, oh.
22:20Oh, oh, oh.
22:22Oh, oh, oh.
22:24Oh, oh, oh, oh.
22:26Oh, oh, oh, oh.
22:28Oh, oh, oh, oh.
22:30Oh, oh, oh, oh.
22:32Oh, oh, oh, oh.
22:34Oh, oh, oh, oh.
22:36Oh, oh, oh, oh.
24:08I hope to be through here tomorrow sometime.
24:11In the meantime, you're obviously having a very good time, and I don't want to spoil any more with the political speech.
24:17Just let me say thank you on behalf of my staff, on behalf of the press who are here, on behalf of the relatives who are in here now, for hosting us here this evening.
24:25We really appreciate it.
24:26Thank you so much.
24:27Initially, the group was warmly welcomed, but Temple member Vernon Gosney handed NBC correspondent Don Harris, mistaking him for Ryan, a note that read,
24:54Quote, Vernon Gosney and Monica Bagby, please help us get out of Jonestown.
25:01Jones was made aware of the note, and Gosney tried and failed to impress upon Ryan the extreme danger that his delegation was now in.
25:11That night, the media and the delegation returned to the airfield for accommodations after Jones refused to let them stay the night.
25:19The next morning, Ryan, Spear, and Dwyer continued their interviews and met a woman who secretly expressed her wish to leave Jonestown with her family and another family.
25:32Around 11 a.m., the media and the delegation returned and took part in interviewing People's Temple members.
25:40I'm going back over this because, as I say, I can concede with you the amount of work that's been done here, because that's not a argument for it.
25:47So that leaves only one thing.
25:58That leaves only one thing to be explored, and that's this question of, it's a lot to be explored for us, the thing of fear.
26:05Well, this is a good example.
26:07Last night, someone came and passed me this note.
26:15Well, that's who we're talking about.
26:17He wants to leave his son here.
26:18If Jonestown's arrived, that's why he's going to leave his son here.
26:22He's the one that I'm just talking about.
26:25Yeah, this is the man that wants to leave his son here.
26:28Doesn't it concern you, though, that this man, for whatever reason, what are the people in your group?
26:36People play games, friend.
26:38They lie.
26:39They lie.
26:40What can I do about lies?
26:41Are you people going to leave us?
26:43I just beg you, please leave us.
26:46Bill, we will bother nobody.
26:48Anybody wants to get out of here can get out of here.
26:50We have no problem about getting out of here.
26:52They come and roll all the time.
26:53I don't know what kind of game.
26:55People like publicity.
26:57Some people do.
26:58I don't.
26:59Some people like publicity.
27:01If it's so damn bad, why is he leaving his son here?
27:05Can you give me a good reason for that?
27:07I take my son.
27:08I take my son with me.
27:12Well, that's good.
27:14You know, we have to.
27:15We need to get.
27:16We're going to slide.
27:17All right.
27:18All right.
27:20We've had experiences in this place.
27:23We've had experiences in this place.
27:24We've had experiences.
27:25We've had experiences in this place.
27:26We've had experiences in this place.
27:26I don't know.
27:27Again, I think you've never told me that it's very real career.
27:30It's a career for you and your community.
27:32I doubt it that the child would be here.
27:34I didn't expect it to be here.
27:35I didn't expect it to be here.
27:36But I will live in anticipation.
27:38It's not that I don't think what you're doing here is wonderful because I don't need it.
28:03Just know that there's always a place for you.
28:10Always a place for you.
28:16Sorry.
28:18There's always a place for you.
28:20I know there's always a place for you.
28:23I have no problem, even some that have lied.
28:27They've come back.
28:29No, I think I put it on food.
28:32I understand.
28:33I believe that I just watch people who hold themselves.
28:38Treating to information.
28:41When we do this report, there will be some things that are negative in the report.
28:46I told them to trust me.
28:51Do you want my jawline movie?
28:53No.
28:54So what are you all going to do now?
28:58You're going to go out to Georgetown.
29:00It's nice and then we're going to be doing a different license.
29:04You're going to go in.
29:05You're going to drill too.
29:06You're going to see him in the head.
29:08You're going to have to come see my face, you know.
29:12Everybody's been taking it.
29:14I'm going to work very close to you and make you a little uncomfortable, but I'm trying to get that sound thing out.
29:39Okay.
29:49Are you happy here?
29:50Yes, I'm very happy here.
29:53You know that your father and your brother are convinced that he or not.
29:57Well, I'm very happy here.
30:00I don't know what else I can do to convince him.
30:02I've talked to my brother several hours now.
30:04In fact, I invited him down here about a month and a half ago to spend a week or two or however long he wanted with me.
30:10To share with him what I'm doing here and the happiness that I feel.
30:13And as far as my father's concerned, you know, so far he has said what he wants to say, which has not been the truth.
30:19It must be obvious to you that your brother carries a great deal for you.
30:29And I suspect that you have feelings for him.
30:32This is a very sad thing.
30:34Why does it exist?
30:35What can be done to solve this thing where a brother and sister...
30:40There's absolutely no problem between my brother and myself.
30:43He's happy, you know, I'm very happy for him to come down here anytime.
30:46He's asking me to come back to the United States to spend a week to convince him and my family that I'm not being held here against my will.
30:53And I don't plan to return at this time to convince anybody because I know I'm happy here and I know my mind.
30:59And, you know, I'm not saying I'm never coming back to the United States, but this is my home here.
31:03This is my life for now.
31:04This is where I plan to remain.
31:10I'm going to ship to Anthony.
31:12Don't worry about when that's going to be here.
31:14Yeah.
31:19Alright.
31:20You want me to...
31:25I'll ship the sides if you like.
31:26Much like?
31:27Yeah.
31:28Why don't you move everybody?
31:29No.
31:30That's what you do.
31:31Just stand there.
31:33Okay.
31:34Okay.
31:35Okay.
31:36Okay.
31:37Okay.
31:38Thank you, Doug.
31:39Anthony?
31:40Yes, sir.
31:41What do you think?
31:42It's hard for me to know what to think.
31:43It's...
31:44It's hard.
31:45I can't be convinced totally by what my father says from California sitting up there.
31:47It's also hard for me to believe what I see and hear from Maria sitting here.
31:53It's important, I think, that I hear his side and then I hear her side.
31:54But for me to be convinced, I would need to be alone with Maria.
31:55Not here.
31:56Not here in Georgetown.
31:57Not at my dad's house.
31:58Somewhere impartial.
31:59You're still reading about her, cannot I?
32:00I know this is hard for you.
32:01I know this is hard for you.
32:02I know it's hard for you.
32:03I know this is hard for you.
32:04I know you don't really do what's going on in my dad's house.
32:05Not here at my dad's house.
32:07Somewhere impartial.
32:08You're still there.
32:09How do you know that he is?
32:10I know little bit of a bitch.
32:12I would need to be alone with Maria, not here, not here in Georgetown, you know, in Jonestown,
32:18not in my dad's house, somewhere impartial.
32:25You're still worrying about her, can I?
32:27I know this is hard for you, I know it must be hard for both of you,
32:30but I'm trying desperately to understand this thing.
32:34You see her, you talk to her, but you're still worrying about it.
32:39Can you tell me why?
32:42It's hard for me to explain.
32:51Last night when I talked to Maria, she said, she accused the words that I was saying
32:55as being words coming out of my father's mouth.
32:59I said, well, Maria, it's just as hard for me not to know that the words you're saying
33:04aren't coming from somebody else's mouth and not yours.
33:07That's why I wouldn't, for me, to be satisfied.
33:10I'd have to see you somewhere else.
33:25I'm sorry, if we're both of you through that.
33:31I'm sorry, if we're both of you through that.
33:33I hope it works out so that most of you are satisfied with the others.
33:45Yeah.
33:46I.
33:47I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
33:48I'm sorry.
33:50I'm sorry.
33:50I'm sorry.
33:55Yeah.
33:55I'm sorry.
33:55So let's check it out.
34:00I feel like...
34:09May, you�보 never look good, man.
34:09I'm sorry.
34:10I'm sorry.
34:11Yeah.
34:12I'm sorry, too.
34:13Come on, come on, come on!
34:16Come on!
34:21Come on!
34:38Come on, he's locked!
34:43Don't bring those kids back here!
34:46You bring them back!
34:48Don't you touch my kids!
34:51Oh, there!
34:53Wait, wait, wait, wait!
34:55No!
34:56Wait, wait, wait!
35:03Listen!
35:13Last decade!
35:14It's either told you to chase it to the Yves
35:18I don't know where you're all a sudden.
35:201 around 3 o'clock PM, 14 temple defectors and Larry Layton, posing as a defector, boarded a truck and were taken to the airstrip…
35:38taken to the airstrip, with Ryan wishing to stay another night to assist any others who
35:44wanted to leave.
35:46Shortly thereafter, a knife attack on Ryan failed while he was arbitrating a family
35:52dispute on leaving.
35:55Against Ryan's protests, Dwyer ordered Ryan to leave, but he promised to return later
36:01to address the dispute.
36:03I think I may have put on the tape, just that I told you so, never mind.
36:11What happened?
36:12Well, we were, all of a sudden we had a whole lot of people at the last minute who wanted
36:21to go, suddenly rushed forward and said, we want to leave.
36:25We knew about two as early as last night.
36:30We knew about a family this morning that said, we've got to go.
36:35And you have to understand, there was a high degree of agitation on the part of those who
36:39wanted to go, and they were really very much in fear.
36:43And so we made arrangements for them, and of course the transportation is extremely limited
36:49and very difficult.
36:51So we had to begin planning.
36:52Of course, most of the people, if they come out, will not have enough food and they won't
36:56have the clothing place to stay in the rest.
36:58So we had to begin a real operation, at which point we'd divide up the work.
37:02And my responsibility, where among the three of us, my assistant and the deputy chief of
37:07mission, the founder and I, my job was to stay behind and get the list of people who wanted
37:13to go, make sure they had their stuff, make sure they made their decorations, they wanted
37:16to leave, you know, and just keep it straight.
37:20And I was doing that, which included going with some of them to get their belongings because
37:24they were, they didn't, they were reluctant to go back to their buildings alone.
37:29And I think in the process, there were people who could see me doing that and were pretty
37:34hostile about it, apparently, from the looks that I gave and some of the comments they made,
37:38not to me, but to the people who were leaving.
37:41And the next thing I did, back in the religion, we had the group beginning to get together.
37:45I stood up and was, had been talking with the two attorneys for the temple, and suddenly
37:53the knife was around my neck, and I was in danger.
37:59And I pushed the hand away, fell back against them, others grabbed them and pulled them off
38:06me.
38:07And that's where we are.
38:08Who grabbed them?
38:09Everybody did.
38:10Everybody did.
38:11The entire group left Jonestown and arrived at the Kaituma airstrip by 4 45 PM.
38:24After exit transport planes, a twin engine Otter and a Cessna did not arrive until 5 10 PM.
38:39The smaller six seat Cessna was taxiing to the end of the runway when one of its occupants,
38:46Larry Layton opened fire on those inside, wounding several.
38:51Concurrently, several other people's temple members who had escorted the group out began
38:57to open fire on the transport plane, killing Ryan, three journalists, and a defecting temple
39:04member.
39:05While wounding nine others, including Spear, the gunman riddled Ryan's body with over 20 bullets
39:13before shooting him in the face.
39:15Before shooting him in the face.
39:16Get out of the way, get out of the way.
39:46Get out of the way.
40:16Get out of the way.
40:46Get out of the way.
41:16After Ryan's departure from Jonestown towards Port Kytuma, Marceline Jones made a broadcast on the public address system stating that everything was all right and asking residents to return to their homes.
41:29During this time, aides prepared a large metal tub with grape flavor aid poisoned with cyanide.
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