During debate in the Texas House of Representatives on Wednesday, Rep. Todd Hunter (R) Rep. Nicole Collier (D) squared off over Republicans' redistricting efforts.
00:00Thank you, Mr. Speaker and members. I am going to address the body. I'm not calling people out by their names.
00:19We passed House rules that provided decorum, not shots at individual members and their names.
00:30It seems to be a little bit of a contradiction, that we're all supposed to be respectable, but yet the opposition throws out our names.
00:41So, let me make a few comments.
00:47Why are we here? Because Congressional redistricting is allowed.
00:55Why are we here? One reason is the U.S. Supreme Court said the following.
01:03It says we recognize that politics and political considerations are inseparable from districting and apportion.
01:17To hold that legislators cannot take partisan interests into account when drawing district lines would essentially countermand the framers' decision to entrust districting to political entities.
01:37The law allows it.
01:43Now, we have just heard a couple of hours from our Democrat opposition, and everyone that spoke was with the Democrat Party.
01:53I'm standing with Republican members.
01:59And what's wrong with Republicans standing up and Republicans stepping up and Republicans being honest, which you don't like, which is Supreme Court says,
02:15we can use political and partisanship to do Congressional redistricting.
02:25We will not agree on this issue.
02:31We will push forward as the votes have been all day long.
02:37The votes today have followed the Supreme Court, which is partisanship preferential.
02:45And, yes, we have a Congressional plan.
02:49What's the difference to the whole world listening?
02:52Republicans support it. Democrats do not.
02:57And that's the bottom line.
03:01I've heard a lot of comments, and I will tell you, I don't take them personally.
03:08That's how and the reason I dress this way.
03:13These are tough issues.
03:15I feel like sometimes that I'm a pinata with no candy, just hit.
03:20But I respect all of you.
03:23We may not agree, and we won't agree on this issue.
03:28Absolutely not.
03:31But I do want to say this to my opposition, and you will not like this.
03:37I was told by a very long-time Democrat, South Texan, who said,
03:47Todd, I want you to know I'm not a walker.
03:50I'm a stalker.
03:52And I will tell you, I don't like walkouts.
03:57And you can tell me every reason in the world you did.
04:01But you left from 17 to 19 days.
04:06And most of the comments I've heard could have been handled, discussed,
04:11or mutually involved this house within that time period.
04:16You chose to leave, or some of you did.
04:23That's your choice.
04:25We chose to stay.
04:28That was our choice.
04:30So members, I want everybody to know this is the plan.
04:38It has been supported, it has council approval, and it absolutely should pass.
04:47And I want to thank the Republican members for standing with me.
04:51This may be one of the very few times, Dean Craddock, that we've had all of us up here together.
04:59And even though he's a good opponent, Chris Turner has now placed me into the old club with you over this particular bill.
05:11I am glad to take questions.
05:14Mr. Speaker?
05:15Calling for what purpose?
05:16Will the gentleman yield for questions?
05:18The gentleman yield for questions?
05:20You know.
05:21He yields for questions.
05:23Okay, I didn't hear a quick answer.
05:25Chairman, are you aware that during slavery blacks fled?
05:34Are you aware that during the slavery times blacks fled?
05:37They ran away.
05:38I can't hear you very well.
05:40Are you aware that when there was slavery times blacks fled?
05:48During the Nazi times Jewish people fled.
05:51They fled their oppressor.
05:58Mr. Speaker, I notice that Republicans don't get help.
06:07The chair advises the guests that the rules of the house strictly prohibit demonstrations or outbursts by visitors in the gallery.
06:14If there are additional demonstrations or outbursts in the gallery, the chair will order the sergeant in arms to clear the gallery under the house's constitutional authority to prevent obstruction of his proceedings.
06:27Chairman.
06:29Yes.
06:30This is a very powerful visual that you have up here that you just spoke about.
06:35And very good because you all just did it.
06:38It's time the Republicans get to do it.
06:41Absolutely.
06:42You do it all the time.
06:43You all do it all the time.
06:44But let me just ask you some questions because I think that this is an important visual for Texans, the voters of Texas, because our crowd of gang looks smaller than yours.
06:56And so I thank you for showing that.
06:58Well, it's 88 to 62.
06:59It doesn't look as diverse.
07:00Correct.
07:01It's 88 to 62.
07:02Yeah.
07:03But your crowd does not reflect the diversity of Texas.
07:06Now let's.
07:07I think we're avoiding the bill right now.
07:12What is your understanding?
07:13Sorry, Denise.
07:15What is your understanding of the requirements of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act?
07:22I couldn't hear you.
07:25Would you repeat?
07:26Yes, sir.
07:27What is your understanding of the requirements of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act?
07:32I don't have all the elements here, but the Voting Rights Act needs to be followed.
07:38Section 2 is one of the biggest sections in there.
07:42As I've told you, just like I hate to tell all of you, but there's a lot of photos of the scripts that were on your phones from organizations with lawyers out in the hallway.
07:56But we go to counsel, we present bills, and if they have approved them and tell us that we have followed these legal positions, we do.
08:09And that has been done.
08:10I'm sorry.
08:11I didn't.
08:12I don't think that you answered the question.
08:14I sure did.
08:15What is your understanding?
08:16I just told you that.
08:18Again, I'll repeat again.
08:20I do not have all of the elements on the Voting Rights Act in Section 2.
08:25Well, what elements do you have?
08:26No.
08:27What elements do you have?
08:29Mr. Speaker, can I ever get a chance to finish my answers?
08:35I thought we had ruled a question and I get the answer.
08:39Members, make sure that you allow each other to finish the question and answer so the members in the gallery can hear the debate.
08:48I'm repeating.
08:49Do I have all of the Voting Rights Act criteria in front of me?
08:55No.
08:56Do the lawyers that I've worked with?
08:59Yes.
09:00Can I go make a call and get it to folks?
09:04Yes.
09:05You can do the same thing.
09:08Section 2 in the Voting Rights Act is what has been looked at in redistricting.
09:15Petaway has changed the law.
09:19Rucho has changed the law.
09:22Many of you, Representative, are talking about 2021.
09:27I do get a kind of an interesting deal, everybody.
09:31You complain about 2025 and tell me 2021 is okay, but you sued me on 2021.
09:39I don't know which way to go.
09:42But my point is, do I have them right here?
09:46No.
09:47I'm not asking that.
09:48You just asked me.
09:49Do I have the elements I told you?
09:51I'm asking what you understand it to mean.
09:53I told you I understand.
09:55Let me go back to the beginning of the speech that I gave that to you.
09:58No, no.
09:59I just want to know what you understand it to me.
10:00Well, no, no, no.
10:01You asked.
10:02I read it to you at the very beginning.
10:05This was done when we started today.
10:08Okay.
10:09Another important law that we must follow is a federal law known as the Voting Rights Act
10:14of 1965.
10:15Okay.
10:16Although race cannot be the predominant factor in drawing maps, Section 2 of that act prohibits
10:22the enactment of any plan that restricts minority citizens from having an opportunity to elect
10:27their preferred candidate of choice in certain circumstances if they exist.
10:32That was my knowledge, and I placed it out at the very beginning of the debate.
10:37And so that's your understanding?
10:39That's my general understanding.
10:40Well, thank you.
10:41There's a lot more.
10:42Thank you for...
10:43And you can go into the various cases.
10:44But...
10:45Did you perform...
10:46Rucha, too, involves the voting rights along with Petaway.
10:49Did you perform any racially polarized voting analysis in drawing these maps?
10:54Okay.
10:55I have been asked that question.
10:57I will answer it again.
10:59Did Todd Hunter personally?
11:02No.
11:03Did Todd Hunter go to a law firm that performed all review?
11:10The answer is yes.
11:11And what is that law firm?
11:14Their name is Butler Snow, which was stated on the microphone a few hours ago.
11:21Okay.
11:22And they performed the racially polarized voting analysis in drawing the maps?
11:26I went to the law firm, told them what the goal was.
11:31They prepared.
11:32If anybody has the specifics, they have it.
11:36But do you...
11:37Did they perform any racially polarized voting analysis in drawing the maps?
11:41The second time, I told you I have no personal knowledge, but I'm sure the law firm performed
11:47everything they needed to do.
11:50And what did they need to do?
11:53Well, I hope I'm not the one having to tell law firms what to do.
12:00But if they know anything about redistricting, they know about Petaway.
12:07They know about Rucho.
12:09They know about the Voting Rights Act.
12:11They also know about the other Fifth Circuit as well as U.S. Supreme Court.
12:16My view is you would go through all of those areas, and you rely on the firms just like your groups are.
12:23Some of the ones that you said you represented, I know who your lawyers are.
12:27And you go to them, they perform analysis, and they gave you the scripts on your phone today.
12:33All I did was go to a law firm, and they orally gave me my information, and then I prepared it out.
12:41Did I personally go to everything?
12:44No.
12:45That's why I rely on professionals who can give me that detail.
12:51You make assumptions, and you know what they say when people make an assumption.
12:56Well, I mean, an assumption could mean anything.
13:01I know, but you assume that I went with some lawyer.
13:04I'm sorry, I can't hear you.
13:06You made an assumption about what I did with a lawyer.
13:09No, I did not make it about you.
13:10Okay.
13:11Did you perform any electoral performance analysis in drawing the majority-minority districts in this map?
13:17Same answer that I've just given you, same answer that I have given everybody.
13:25We went to a law firm who had the expertise.
13:30They prepared everything that I was told they needed to do.
13:35Is that a no?
13:37I told you personally I did not.
13:39And I went to a law firm who performed it and gave me the information.
13:43Besides the law firm, did anyone else involved in the creation of this map perform that type of analysis?
13:52The evidence at trial at the League of United Latin American Citizens versus Abbott case, the one that's in El Paso, was that the Attorney General's office has a system to perform racially polarized voting analysis.
14:09Was that used at any point on your map before today?
14:13Personal knowledge?
14:14I don't know.
14:16Personal knowledge.
14:17Personal knowledge.
14:18Personal knowledge.
14:19And you said that Butler Snow was the…
14:21Butler Snow was the law firm.
14:22And you don't know if they did that type of analysis?
14:26I don't know what they did, but I'm sure they did everything they needed to do.
14:31All right.
14:32And this Butler Snow law firm, are they your personal lawyer?
14:37Okay.
14:38As I explained earlier in the day, Butler Snow is a law firm that helped in 2021.
14:52Because you all sued us in 2021, they continue their representation of me.
15:03With congressional redistricting, they were engaged again, and then I was listed because I was already in an attorney relationship with them.
15:16So it continues from 2021 to today, but the answer is yes, they represent me.
15:22And do you pay for them with your own campaign money?
15:25No.
15:26Or do you pay for them with personal money?
15:27I don't pay them.
15:28I don't pay them.
15:29Who pays for them?
15:30I don't know who specifically pays them, but there's a contract that pays the attorney relationship with me and others.
15:36So you…
15:37That's already been brought up in the committee hearings.
15:39Oh, I'm just asking.
15:40Yeah.
15:41Well, I mean, you're asking.
15:42I noticed the people that know this aren't at the back mic.
15:46Well, there may be a lot of people who don't know a lot of things.
15:48Well, that's why we're answering your questions.
15:50So the 2021…
15:51I just want to know who you're getting all your feedback up there on your notes.
15:55Well, I wrote them.
15:56I wrote them myself.
15:57But I'm not going to ask you who…
15:58I wrote them myself.
15:59And I won't ask some of the members who took photos of your scripts to disclose that too.
16:03Okay.
16:04And just remember…
16:05Is it your belief?
16:06Representative, in 2021…
16:07Is it your belief?
16:09Sure.
16:10I was the chairman of redistricting.
16:12There sure are a lot of you in the back that came and asked me to help you.
16:17Well, that's how you made it.
16:19And now today…
16:20That's how you had it.
16:21Now today, I'm getting an attack.
16:25So I guess it was okay for you to ask for my help in 2021 and then today attack us.
16:32Well, when we're not included in the process and you…
16:35You left for 17 to 19 days.
16:38How could you be included?
16:40Again.
16:41Again.
16:42When…
16:43Again.
16:44That's correct.
16:45Again, in 2021 you did also…
16:46When you oppress…
16:47That's…
16:48When you are oppressed, you try to flee the oppressor.
16:51We disagree.
16:52Is it your belief that you can be fairly confident…
16:53We disagree.
16:54Is it your belief that you can be fairly confident how a district will vote Republican or Democrat
17:01by the racial percentage of the citizen voting age population in that district?
17:05No, I do not think…
17:06In that district.
17:07No, you didn't.
17:08I get to finish.
17:09Oh, I had to finish my question.
17:10You asked a question.
17:11No, you didn't.
17:12You asked me.
17:13Nobody knows who's going to win an election.
17:16That's why I disagree with most of your all arguments.
17:20That doesn't mean a Republican or a Democrat are going to win.
17:23You have new criteria that may give people some energy to run and maybe some areas they
17:29can do better in.
17:31But it doesn't say who's going to win.
17:33None of us can predict who's going to win an election.
17:36Then why are you changing the maps now?
17:40Well, one of the reasons is for partisan reasons under Rucho and to give Republicans an opportunity
17:47where they haven't in the past.
17:49The composition of CD30 under the proposed plan creates a black majority citizen voting
17:54age population district in Dallas County.
17:56Is that correct?
17:57Congressional 30 to respond to you.
18:08The political performance is unchanged.
18:12There was no black CVAP in 2021.
18:16Now it is a black CVAP in 2025.
18:22So everybody has the information.
18:25The black CVAP in 30 is 50.41%.
18:32The political performance is still Democrat.
18:37Did you or the map drawer perform any analysis to determine if under the currently enacted plan
18:43black voters could elect their preferred candidates in the current CD30 as it is composed?
18:50If they did, I have no personal knowledge.
18:57But did you?
18:59I've told you before.
19:00Todd Hunter has no personal knowledge.
19:03The law firm would have committed and practiced the analysis.
19:09Did you or the map drawer perform any analysis to determine if under the currently enacted plan black voters could elect their preferred candidates in the current congressional district 33?
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