00:00So when we discussed your bill in committee a few weeks ago, and then again on Monday,
00:07you told me that you didn't know where the map originally came from.
00:12Is that still your statement, you don't know where the map came from?
00:15All I know is I met with counsel, counsel drafted it.
00:22Whether they're the Orangen or others, that I do not know.
00:26Okay. So you can't tell us, you can't tell the members who had their hand on the mouse,
00:30moving lines, moving precincts around. You cannot tell us that today?
00:34I can tell you that the law firm did, but the specific names I do not know.
00:40Okay. Can you tell us, you said the law firm did it.
00:44Can you tell us who was directing the law firm to change the lines?
00:49Well, I asked the law firm to see if we could increase political performance.
00:58I said that in my opening.
01:02What can you tell us about the chain of custody of this map as it came into your possession?
01:09I went to the law firm. They gave it back to me.
01:13Okay. And that person didn't tell you where they got the map from?
01:18No. I mean, as your organization's hire lawyers, whoever they hired, whoever they involved, it's up to them.
01:28I gave a chore, just like we all do on legislation and bills.
01:32They came up with a draft.
01:34I made sure that they dotted their I's, crossed their T's, followed the law.
01:39They assured me.
01:40I talked to them on what the proposal was, and then I present it.
01:45So, Mr. Hunter, you've served here a long time.
01:52You're one of the most senior members of the body.
01:55Don't you, in seniority, of course.
02:00Thank you, Mr. Turner.
02:02Wouldn't you agree it's unusual, if not unheard of, that a bill author brings a bill before the House, but we don't know where the idea for the bill came from.
02:14We don't know who's asking for the change in the law or what the rationale for the policy change is.
02:19I mean, isn't that highly unusual?
02:22Absolutely not, and that's not what I've said now, and you've heard me.
02:27We've been talking about, let's not all go hide behind our desks.
02:31Congressional redistricting has been on the radar since April.
02:36This isn't any surprise.
02:38It's been talked about, and on this floor we've talked about it.
02:42Two, it is not unusual that you get into creation of law, that you go talk to law firms, and it isn't unusual.
02:53I did ask to see if we could increase political performance, and I've been clear on that.
02:59And so, this was presented.
03:03It met my request, and this is what's being presented.
03:06And partisanship, political performance, pro-Republican is fine.
03:11It's legal.
03:13So, actually, I didn't hear anything about congressional redistricting until June at the earliest.
03:18I didn't hear it in April.
03:19Who told you in April that we were going to do that?
03:20I've been on this House floor.
03:21I can't remember.
03:23Now, let me tell you something.
03:24You told me how senior and how I've been here a long time, and you've been here a pretty good amount of time, Mr. Turner.
03:32Fair point.
03:32Now, I can't believe that those ears turned off on congressional redistricting in spring and just popped up in June.
03:40It's been all over the Internet.
03:42It's been all over the discussion.
03:45Everybody's been talking about it.
03:46The question is, would this be a special session?
03:50Did not know.
03:51Governor called it.
03:52Okay.
03:53So, since you don't know where the map originally came from.
03:56Well, no, I do know where it originally came from.
03:58It came from the law firm.
04:00Okay.
04:00But you don't know, actually, who drew the map.
04:02The law firm.
04:04But you don't know the individual who drew the map.
04:06No, I know lawyers in the firm.
04:08Okay.
04:09So, but if we don't know specifically who drew the map, how do you know what the map drawer's intentions were?
04:14As you and your third-party organizations hire lawyers, you give them an objective, which is, can you increase political performance?
04:27The law firm goes out to their own office, drafts, provides you a product, you discuss with them.
04:36If you agree, you present that particular draft.
04:40And that's what we did.
04:42Nothing unusual.
04:43That's what everybody's doing.
04:45And your side of the aisle is doing the same.
04:48Were you present during any of the map drawing?
04:51All I did is I had meetings with them where they, after I gave them the instructions, and they presented the information to them.
05:01Okay.
05:01Did you?
05:02Did I go into the details in the districts?
05:04No.
05:05Okay.
05:05Did you review any drafts and suggest any changes when you saw the maps?
05:11No, it was presented to me.
05:14I reviewed with them, looked at it, seemed to be okay to me.
05:19We may have had some discussion to do some modifications here and there.
05:25Do you know if anyone else reviewed drafts of the map and made changes?
05:30Well, I'm sure somebody in the law firm did.
05:34You said, do I know personal people that did?
05:39The answer is no.
05:40Okay.
05:41Other than I do have names in the law firm that you asked me about in committee.
05:47How was it communicated to you that you would be the bill author of House Bill 4?
05:54Chairman Vasute, which is very natural, asked if I would be the bill author.
06:00And I said, yes, and it's probably because of your introductory comments about me being a senior member and involved here a long time.
06:14But he asked me, and I said, I'm glad to do it, and that's who asked me to carry it.
06:19Okay.
06:19And you've referenced the law firm several times.
06:22You stated in committee that's the law firm of Butler Snow.
06:25So who actually hired Butler Snow to consult on these maps?
06:28To be honest, I do not know the specifics on how they were hired.
06:33I don't know that.
06:34I don't know that.
06:35But you are a client of Butler Snow.
06:37I am a client, and I have been placed in whatever agreement they have.
06:43I agree.
06:44Okay.
06:45And that was continuing since 2021.
06:49Understood.
06:49But you don't know who hired them, and you don't know who's paying their bills.
06:54Well, you've got to remember, we have a 2021 litigation still going on in El Paso.
07:00Sure.
07:00So I still have involvement with them.
07:04Now, this issue, which is supplemental, different than the 2021, they have been engaged.
07:15My privilege, my involvement follows and is incorporated.
07:21I don't know the specifics, don't know the engagement, don't know that, but I do know that I get continuing involvement from the firm.
07:31Okay.
07:32How did Senator King get the map to file it on the Senate side?
07:36That I don't know.
07:37I think I've talked to Senator King twice, and I have not asked him about that, and I don't, if you, to be honest, to everybody in this room, I have not read the Senate bill.
07:53So I do not know if it follows our bill or what, but I have not asked him where he got his.
08:00Okay.
08:00Do you know, did the map originate with you or with Senator King?
08:05Whatever he filed, I do not know.
08:07I don't know if he took a copy of ours and refiled it over there.
08:11I don't know.
08:12Okay.
08:12And last on this, why is the House originating this map this session rather than the Senate?
08:21Because the Senate initiated it in 2021.
08:23To be honest, I don't know why.
08:282021, I believe it was SB6 in 2021, and in 2025 it is HB4.
08:37I don't think there's, in my understanding, House takes up certain issues, Senate takes up, but what the idea was not.
08:46I'm glad we are, though.
08:48I'm glad the House is taking the initiative.
08:50Okay.
08:51And lastly, Dean Thompson had a couple questions she didn't get to.
08:54She asked me to.
08:55Fire away.
08:55So the HCVAP population of CD9 after your amendment is just barely over 50%.
09:01Was this an accident?
09:03Hold on a second on CD9?
09:06Yes.
09:06And what was the question?
09:08That the HCVAP population is just barely over 50%.
09:12It's 50.15%.
09:14Was that an accident?
09:16An accident.
09:17I don't know what that means.
09:19Okay.
09:20As you change CD9, you split election precinct 414, 414, four different times.
09:31What was the purpose in carving out precinct 414?
09:32I'm sure it's based on Rucho, which is pure political performance.
09:36Okay.
09:37Do you know if there's any data considered when splitting that election precinct four times?
09:40Do I have personal knowledge?
09:41No.
09:42Do I believe they did?
09:43Absolutely.
09:43Okay.
09:44And the map also splits election precincts, again, Harris County, precincts 533 and 386.
09:50Are you under 9?
09:52Yes.
09:52In Harris County.
09:53Harris County, CD9.
09:55Yeah.
09:55Okay.
09:55533 and 386.
09:58Do you know what the purpose of splitting those precincts was?
10:01Do I have personal knowledge?
10:03No.
10:03But I believe they were following the Rucho case, the Petaway, and the current law.
10:07And the preference on partisanship.
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