00:00Yes, I mean, initially we were very concerned about CCTV, we worried about it creating complacency
00:09and indeed, you know, we have seen examples of CCTV in the past used for monitoring babies
00:16when they're asleep, for example, as creating opportunities for poor practice and complacency.
00:22We have since in conversations with providers that use CCTV come to understand that it can
00:29be useful if there is an incident or an accusation between two members of staff, for example,
00:36the CCTV footage can help resolve that, can help with reviews of what has actually occurred
00:42and provide evidence in cases where action needs to be taken.
00:47However, in saying that, I've come to think that there is a small role for CCTV in terms
00:54of improving children's safety and the safeguarding practices around children in early childhood
01:00centres, but it is only a small part.
01:03At the end of the day, it's the educators and the educational team that protect children
01:09and keep children safe and thriving in early childhood settings.
01:13And that's really where we need to focus our energy.
01:15Yeah, and when you touch on, Samantha, that point about that this could potentially create
01:20a level of complacency, I've been thinking about this and is there a risk that this is
01:25seen as a catch-all solution to the broad, really horrifying news that we've been seeing
01:34coming out of particularly Victoria and, of course, reports out of New South Wales that
01:39my colleague Adele Ferguson has been doing as well.
01:41Yes, that's right.
01:43I was concerned about that sort of knee-jerk reaction.
01:46It sounds like a solution, but actually what we're all about is preventing children from
01:51being harmed in the first place.
01:53What we're all about is good practice, competent educators with adequate levels of staffing,
01:59that there are always two educators with eyes on children, that they're allowing no opportunity
02:04for harm to occur and no opportunity for what we are seeming to be dealing with, a larger
02:13number of child sex abuse perpetrators that are trying to get access to children by working
02:19in the early childhood sector.
02:21And it's other educators being experienced and competent and alert to red flags and not
02:27allowing children to be isolated or taken away from the group or for educators to be alone
02:33with children.
02:33That's what's going to keep children safe.
02:36And that's a much bigger and longer-term investment.
02:39I think CCTV might be part of the solution, but it's certainly not the whole solution.
02:45And correct me if I'm wrong, but when it comes to that prevention and the point that you just
02:49made there, Samantha, about two carers being with children at any one time, is part of the
02:55challenge here that there are different rules in different states and territories and that
02:59even where there are rules or policies or even procedures, that they're not always taken
03:06up in or acted upon in a uniform manner.
03:10That's right.
03:11In services that have adopted really high, good quality practice, there are very few incidents
03:19of harm occurring to children.
03:20What we need is to drive that high-quality practice across the whole sector.
03:26And where there is confusion, I think, in terms of staffing and rostering practices, we need
03:32to provide stronger guidance about that.
03:34The minimum staffing ratios that are in the national law are not enough by themselves.
03:40We need actually providers to be adopting best practice in terms of their staffing and supporting
03:46their educators.
03:46And this is where I worry that some of the narrative in response to child safety is putting the
03:56responsibility solely on individual educators.
03:59And it's not.
04:01It's got to be a responsibility that's born right up through organisations, right to the
04:07boardroom and across the system.
04:09It's a shared responsibility between providers and regulators and government funding bodies.
04:15Everybody needs to be focused on improving the safeguards around children.
04:21Yeah, you're really talking there about broad-ranging structural reform.
04:25And that's something that you've been speaking on this program and others for years and years
04:29there have been.
04:30Samantha, you're aware of a litany of reports of court cases that have made recommendations
04:37to coronials and the like.
04:38What is it going to take, and I guess what is your message to those ministers that are
04:44meeting today and to broader political cabinets around the country of what needs to happen
04:49right now?
04:51Yes, you're right, Dan.
04:52And we have been talking about this for some time now.
04:55The federal government is committed to building a universal system of early childhood education
04:59and care.
04:59We welcome that.
05:00But it's really important that quality is the bedrock of that universal system.
05:05And I think it is time for the government to lead a new conversation with providers to
05:12actually renegotiate the rules for providers that want to stay in the early childhood sector.
05:19We are no longer needing exponential growth year on year in the early childhood sector.
05:24Instead, what we need to do is have a conversation about quality and safety and make sure that
05:30the providers that are staying in the sector are here for the long term, demonstrate a commitment
05:35to quality, demonstrate an understanding of what it means to put children's best interests
05:39first all the time in every decision.
05:43And I think that the sector is mixed.
05:47We have some really high-quality providers, often not-for-profit.
05:52We also have a growing proportion of public delivery where we have government agencies
05:57delivering early childhood services.
06:00We need to, though, have a conversation with those who are private and corporate providers
06:06where if they're demonstrating a commitment to quality, if they are willing to be in the
06:12sector for the long term and they're willing to put the interests of children first, then
06:16there is a role for them.
06:18But if they're not, if they're looking for quick or exorbitant levels of profit, then
06:23there should be no place for those providers in the system going forward.
06:27So let's do this.
06:32We're doing it.
06:36We're doing it.
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